Re: [sustran] Skyway proposal ‘mind-boggling,’ says rival firm

[Cornie Huizenga]

Hi Carlos,

good questions - key is obviously that there is a genuine public dialog and
not a white-wash one.  How strong is the civil society in Manila, I would
say quite strong if they want to be.  I leave it to the Manila based
members of sustran to decide how strong they want to be on this one.  But
personally I would say that this is something worth fighting for.  If a
project of this magnitude would be implemented it will put its stamp on
urban transport in Manila for years to come, and not in a good way.

Cornie

On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 8:00 PM, Pardo <carlosfpardo at gmail.com> wrote:

> I think both solutions are from the "normal world" and will not
> necessarily apply. What may happen with the public dialogue is that it is
> prepared, developed and then results are hidden very carefully. Then
> project proponents will say "we had a public dialogue and the project will
> move forward, now with civil society on board" - and it will be the same
> project as before.
>
> That said, it may be that the dialogue is properly developed and external
> support is sought to achieve grater neutrality in the process. If the media
> cares at all, they could work as the ones reporting about what truly is
> said during dialogues and real and public agreements can be reached. Does
> Manila habe strong civil society - or at least one strong leader- that can
> promote such dialogue? Will the media interest in supporting people instead
> of infrastructure? Will any of the international institutions provide
> support in accompannying the process?
>
> For those of you who can read Spanish, see eltiempo.com or
> elespectador.com for the "user strikes" in transmilenio. They are
> definitely interesting in the context of this discussion, especially due to
> the role expected and played by civil society - and its legitimacy.
>
> Pardo
>
> Written from the unexpected outcome of Abulafia. Please excuse typos.
>
> On 1/03/2012, at 21:01, Cornie Huizenga <
> cornie.huizenga at slocatpartnership.org> wrote:
>
> > Dear Lloyd and others,
> >
> > In a normal world I think that Lloyd's approach could work.  I am not
> > certain though whether Manila is a "normal"world. The danger that I would
> > foresee is that private sector claims that they can do this without
> > government support but that relatively soon there will be some set-backs
> > which will make it necessary that the government bails out the project.
> >
> > I would call for a public dialog in which you explain that what Manila
> > needs most is a mobility solution which works for all people and not just
> > those who have cars. Why should Manila go for a solution which has proven
> > in other places not to work.  Having a smoother flowing EDSA will not
> > resolve congestion in other parts of Metro Manila. I would suggest that
> > NGOs start an aggressive campaign to explain to the different
> stakeholders
> > (business, NGOs, local government) how the $ 600 million can be used in
> an
> > alternative manner to create a much more livable city.
> >
> > Cornie
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 8:05 AM, Lloyd Wright <lwright at vivacities.org>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Yes, the proposal to build another road layer over EDSA Avenue in Manila
> >> is indeed mind-boggling, especially when you consider there are
> currently
> >> segments already with three layers.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> http://business.inquirer.net/46659/skyway-proposal-%E2%80%98mind-boggling%E2%80%99-says-rival-firm
> >>
> >> However, I actually think there is an opportunity here for a sustainable
> >> transport solution, that simultaneously allows for the civil works
> >> companies to build their dreams.
> >>
> >> Let them build the Skyway on the condition that it is entirely a private
> >> endeavor with zero contribution from public funds.  The toll amount and
> >> concession length could be adjusted to whatever lets them profit.
> >>
> >> The other caveat is that the surface layer belongs to sustainable
> >> transport with wide footpaths, cycle lanes, and dedicated bus lanes.
>  Only
> >> allow one lane for mixed traffic at the surface level, a lane that will
> be
> >> throttled by calming measures that give priority to the NMT and public
> >> transport lanes.
> >>
> >> The most undesirable outcome would be building the Skyway with public
> >> funds and simultaneously leaving the surface in the hands of cars, a
> real
> >> lose-lose with no equity or environmental benefits.
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >>
> >> Lloyd
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+lwright=vivacities.org at list.jca.apc.org
> [mailto:
> >> sustran-discuss-bounces+lwright=vivacities.org at list.jca.apc.org] On
> >> Behalf Of Roselle Leah K. Rivera
> >> Sent: 02 March 2012 05:27
> >> To: sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org
> >> Subject: [sustran] Skyway proposal ‘mind-boggling,’ says rival firm
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Here we go... 24 billion pesos versus 21 billion pesos equals ?
> >> In the silence that follows, is it true? that "the road to hell is paved
> >> with good intentions?"
> >>
> >>
> >> Skyway proposal ‘mind-boggling,’ says rival firm
> >> Source: business.inquirer.net
> >>
> >> “Ambitious,” “incredible” and “mind-boggling.” This was how the group of
> >> Manuel V. Pangilinan described claims by San Miguel Corp. (SMC)-backed
> >> Citra Metro Manila Tollways Corp. (CMMTC) that it could build a highway
> >> over busy Metro Manila streets at a lower cost.
> >>
> >>
> >>  -----------------------------------------------------
> >>     "well-behaved women seldom make history."
> >>                             -laurel thatcher ulrich Roselle Leah K.
> >> Rivera Chairperson Department of Women and Development Studies College
> of
> >> Social Work and Community Development University of the Philippines
> Diliman
> >> Quezon City mobile  +639178011494
> >>
> >> Partner Producer/Host, Sikhay Kilos Radio Program Sa DZUP 1602, Kasali
> Ka!
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> >> --------------------------------------------------------
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> >>
> >> ================================================================
> >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> >> (the 'Global South').
> >>
> >>
> >> --------------------------------------------------------
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> >>
> >> ================================================================
> >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> >> (the 'Global South').
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Cornie Huizenga
> > Joint Convener
> > Partnership on Sustainable, Low Carbon Transport
> > Mobile: +86 13901949332
> > cornie.huizenga at slocatpartnership.org
> > www.slocat.net
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> >
> > ================================================================
> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South').
>



-- 
Cornie Huizenga
Joint Convener
Partnership on Sustainable, Low Carbon Transport
Mobile: +86 13901949332
cornie.huizenga at slocatpartnership.org
www.slocat.net