Re: [sustran] Skyway proposal ‘mind-boggling,’ says rival firm

[Pardo]

I think both solutions are from the "normal world" and will not necessarily apply. What may happen with the public dialogue is that it is prepared, developed and then results are hidden very carefully. Then project proponents will say "we had a public dialogue and the project will move forward, now with civil society on board" - and it will be the same project as before.

That said, it may be that the dialogue is properly developed and external support is sought to achieve grater neutrality in the process. If the media cares at all, they could work as the ones reporting about what truly is said during dialogues and real and public agreements can be reached. Does Manila habe strong civil society - or at least one strong leader- that can promote such dialogue? Will the media interest in supporting people instead of infrastructure? Will any of the international institutions provide support in accompannying the process?

For those of you who can read Spanish, see eltiempo.com or elespectador.com for the "user strikes" in transmilenio. They are definitely interesting in the context of this discussion, especially due to the role expected and played by civil society - and its legitimacy.

Pardo

Written from the unexpected outcome of Abulafia. Please excuse typos. 

On 1/03/2012, at 21:01, Cornie Huizenga <cornie.huizenga at slocatpartnership.org> wrote:

> Dear Lloyd and others,
> 
> In a normal world I think that Lloyd's approach could work.  I am not
> certain though whether Manila is a "normal"world. The danger that I would
> foresee is that private sector claims that they can do this without
> government support but that relatively soon there will be some set-backs
> which will make it necessary that the government bails out the project.
> 
> I would call for a public dialog in which you explain that what Manila
> needs most is a mobility solution which works for all people and not just
> those who have cars. Why should Manila go for a solution which has proven
> in other places not to work.  Having a smoother flowing EDSA will not
> resolve congestion in other parts of Metro Manila. I would suggest that
> NGOs start an aggressive campaign to explain to the different stakeholders
> (business, NGOs, local government) how the $ 600 million can be used in an
> alternative manner to create a much more livable city.
> 
> Cornie
> 
> On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 8:05 AM, Lloyd Wright <lwright at vivacities.org> wrote:
> 
>> Yes, the proposal to build another road layer over EDSA Avenue in Manila
>> is indeed mind-boggling, especially when you consider there are currently
>> segments already with three layers.
>> 
>> 
>> http://business.inquirer.net/46659/skyway-proposal-%E2%80%98mind-boggling%E2%80%99-says-rival-firm
>> 
>> However, I actually think there is an opportunity here for a sustainable
>> transport solution, that simultaneously allows for the civil works
>> companies to build their dreams.
>> 
>> Let them build the Skyway on the condition that it is entirely a private
>> endeavor with zero contribution from public funds.  The toll amount and
>> concession length could be adjusted to whatever lets them profit.
>> 
>> The other caveat is that the surface layer belongs to sustainable
>> transport with wide footpaths, cycle lanes, and dedicated bus lanes.  Only
>> allow one lane for mixed traffic at the surface level, a lane that will be
>> throttled by calming measures that give priority to the NMT and public
>> transport lanes.
>> 
>> The most undesirable outcome would be building the Skyway with public
>> funds and simultaneously leaving the surface in the hands of cars, a real
>> lose-lose with no equity or environmental benefits.
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> Lloyd
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+lwright=vivacities.org at list.jca.apc.org[mailto:
>> sustran-discuss-bounces+lwright=vivacities.org at list.jca.apc.org] On
>> Behalf Of Roselle Leah K. Rivera
>> Sent: 02 March 2012 05:27
>> To: sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org
>> Subject: [sustran] Skyway proposal ‘mind-boggling,’ says rival firm
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Here we go... 24 billion pesos versus 21 billion pesos equals ?
>> In the silence that follows, is it true? that "the road to hell is paved
>> with good intentions?"
>> 
>> 
>> Skyway proposal ‘mind-boggling,’ says rival firm
>> Source: business.inquirer.net
>> 
>> “Ambitious,” “incredible” and “mind-boggling.” This was how the group of
>> Manuel V. Pangilinan described claims by San Miguel Corp. (SMC)-backed
>> Citra Metro Manila Tollways Corp. (CMMTC) that it could build a highway
>> over busy Metro Manila streets at a lower cost.
>> 
>> 
>>  -----------------------------------------------------
>>     "well-behaved women seldom make history."
>>                             -laurel thatcher ulrich Roselle Leah K.
>> Rivera Chairperson Department of Women and Development Studies College of
>> Social Work and Community Development University of the Philippines Diliman
>> Quezon City mobile  +639178011494
>> 
>> Partner Producer/Host, Sikhay Kilos Radio Program Sa DZUP 1602, Kasali Ka!
>> Matinong usapan para sa maunlad na bayan.
>> You can listen to us live streaming www.dzup.org or 1602 on your AM radio
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>> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
>> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
>> (the 'Global South').
>> 
>> 
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>> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
>> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
>> (the 'Global South').
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Cornie Huizenga
> Joint Convener
> Partnership on Sustainable, Low Carbon Transport
> Mobile: +86 13901949332
> cornie.huizenga at slocatpartnership.org
> www.slocat.net
> -------------------------------------------------------- 
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> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South').