[sustran] Re: UK High Speed Rail: Going very fast in the wrongdirection

[Sudhir]

Hi all,

I would instead ask can asians afford it ? Many Asian countries are joining
the HSR bandwagon after China with Vietnam ( there is good opposition) and
India making aggressive plans. Should Asian countries think about HSR for
future or rather plan and have a decent heavy rail system which provides
safe, comfortable and cheap travel? Do we have any literature for developing
countries on economic viability of such projects as such?

See
http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2011/01/12/high-speed-rail-to-connect-nine-south-china-cities.html
http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/news/330126,rejecting-high-speed-rail-plan.html
http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/08/13/vietnam-looks-to-fund-56-billion-high-speed-system-between-hanoi-and-ho-chi-minh-city/
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/4843889.cms

regards
Sudhir


On 9 February 2011 02:53, Lee Schipper <schipper at wri.org> wrote:

> At UC we have looked at the CO2 impacts of HSR in the US. Simple
> result-- modest savings in those corridors where HSR makes sense (and
> I'll leave that question there), provided trains are moderately to very
> full and electricity is not all coal fired. Remember that in the time
> frame (2030) we expect other modes to be less carbon intensive.
>
> On the whole the impact ins SMALL because so little of total travel is
> in the 100-1000 km range in dense corridors.  And while the CO2 savings
> are reassuring, they do not constitute justification for HSR, rather
> just a small cobenefit.
>
> The paper is in 2011 TRB and will soon be on the ORNL web site where
> energy-committee sponsored sessions are exhibited. Happy to send the
> pdf.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org at list.jca.apc.org
> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org at list.jca.apc.org] On
> Behalf Of Walter Hook
> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 10:44 AM
> To: bruun at seas.upenn.edu
> Cc: UTSG Mailing List (Z UTSG Mailing List -); Global 'South'
> Sustainable Transport
> Subject: [sustran] Re: UK High Speed Rail: Going very fast in the
> wrongdirection
>
> thanks for sharing this.  getting a lot of questions about the US high
> speed rail proposals/discussions and don't yet have a firm opinion on
> them.  one or two corridors are a maybe, i would say, assuming a new gas
> tax or carbon
> tax could pay for them, but this is far from likely.    be good to get a
> discussion going on this in the US context as well.  I am starting to
> think about combining intercity and commuter longer distance express bus
> services with downtown bus lanes and HOV lanes, as a possible
> alternative to high speed rail.  If there were HOV/bus lanes throughout
> NYC and down the NJ Turnpike, its likely you could make it NY to DC on
> an express bus in a time competitive to rail.  These private Chinatown
> based buses in New York are charging $25 for NY to DC or Boston, or even
> less, you book on line, and they have high speed internet, etc, compared
> to well over $100 for the rail service.  In the US, once you get off the
> train, you are unlikely to be anywhere near where you plan to go,
> particularly once you are outside of NYC.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 12:50 PM, <bruun at seas.upenn.edu> wrote:
>
> > Eric Britton:
> >
> > Thanks for posting this one.
> >
> > I wholeheartedly agree with John Whitelegg that the question of
> > financing versus who will use HSR needs to be addressed, not just in
> > the UK, but anywhere. We have the same issue right now in the
> > Northeast Corridor of the US. Would it be fair to use general revenues
>
> > to build an even faster system that only business travelers and the
> > wealthy can afford to use? This is already the case with the moderate
> > speed Acela Express having as it does per-unit-distance fares amongst
> > the highest in the world. Indeed, with fares as high as they are and
> > the limited capacity offered, there are few environmental benefits of
> > taking cars off the road, either. Thus, I can't see why the general
> > public should subsidize it any more than they should pay to build an
> > airline and airports.
> >
> > Eric Bruun
> >
> >
> >
> > Quoting eric britton <eric.britton at ecoplan.org>:
> >
> > > I would like to invite your attention and your reactions to this
> > > piece  that appears in today's World Streets.  Your participation
> > > and views are invited for a follow-up piece , as you will see in the
>
> > > last section of the article.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > UK High Speed Rail: Going very fast in the wrong direction <
> > http://worldstreets.wordpress.com/2011/02/08/uk-high-speed-rail-going-
> > very-fast-in-the-wrong-direction/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > In the field of transport, no matter how straight-forward the issues
> > > may seem to be to the busy citizen, merchant, reporter or policy
> > > maker, when it comes to making wise policy it really does take a
> > > certain level of time and attention to come to grips with the
> > > underlying issues and priorities that shape the outcomes. The big
> > > problem encumbering the mobility issues of our new century is that
> > > just about everything turns out upon study to be unobligingly
> > > complex, interdependent, complicated and time lagged ? no matter how
> > > simple it may appear to be on the surface. In the article that
> > > follows, the principle author, John Whitelegg, has a go at a lot of
> > > the too-easy thinking that is the main currency of the High Speed
> > > Rail discussions in places like Britain and the US, where the only
> > > experience with these technologies and operations has been that of a
> > > time-lagged dream machine. Let?s embrace a bit of complexity here. .
> > > . .
> > >
> > > -  - - > Full text here at
> > >
> >
> http://worldstreets.wordpress.com/2011/02/08/uk-high-speed-rail-going-ve
> ry-fast-in-the-wrong-direction/<http://worldstreets.wordpress.com/2011/02/08/uk-high-speed-rail-going-very-fast-in-the-wrong-direction/>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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>
> --
>
> Walter Hook
> Executive Director
> Institute for Transportation and Development Policy
> 9 East 19th Street, 7th Floor
> New York, NY 10003
> 1-212-629-8001
> www.itdp.org
>
> Promoting sustainable and equitable transportation worldwide.
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>
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> ================================================================
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> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South').
> --------------------------------------------------------
> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
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>



-- 
Sudhir Gota
Transport Specialist
CAI-Asia Center
Units 3504-05, 35th Floor, Robinsons-Equitable Tower,
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