[sustran] Re: I NEED ASSISTANCE: Useable BTU's per Cubic Foot, and per Pound (weight)

[Daryl Oster]

Eric,

Thank you, nice of you to post my 2 messages (and chart) to a group I was
banned from!  Why honor me now?  Is this an invitation back? I hope you
don't just want to see if anyone will beat up on me while my hands are tied.
BTW, please read the copyright notice on EVERY post I make.

At any rate, I am happy to have my posts and information posted for reasoned
review provided I am allowed as an unfettered participant.  Thanks again.

Best regards,

Daryl Oster
(c) 2006  all rights reserved.  ETT, et3, MoPod, "space travel on earth"
e-tube, e-tubes,  and the logos thereof are trademarks and or service marks
of et3.com Inc.  For licensing information contact: POB 1423, Crystal River
FL 34423-1423  (352)257-1310, et3 at et3.com , www.et3.com


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Britton [mailto:eric.britton at ecoplan.org]
> Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 9:07 AM
> To: NewMobilityCafe at yahoogroups.com
> Cc: et3 at et3.com
> Subject: I NEED ASSISTANCE: Useable BTU's per Cubic Foot, and per Pound
> (weight)
> 
> On Behalf Of Daryl Oster
> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 7:22 PM
> To: xTransit at yahoogroups.com
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: hhowderd
> >
> > Digging deeper into this problem of an exhaustive list
> > of substances by useable BTU per cubic foot, I have ran
> > into the proposition of "latent heat."
> >
> > For example, there is always a release of energy with
> > a change of state -- gas to liquid to solid.
> 
> It is not always a release of energy, but energy can also be absorbed (as
> in
> refrigeration cycles)-- exothermic (release of heat) OR endothermic
> (absorption of heat) process.
> 
> > Also, there is a release of energy whenever the containment
> > pressure is reduced.
> 
> Again, usually the case -- but not always
> 
> > That may be of critical importance for
> > any vehicle powered by compressed water, compressed air,
> > or even the now popular (although I don't know why): compressed
> > natural gas. I don't see that you could go very far on
> > compressed natural gas if it was all brought on board pretrip,
> > commercially. (Now, maybe compressing the natural gas exiting
> > the passengers might be a more useful concept ! ! Is that
> > what they are doing ? )
> 
> CNG (compressed natural gas) is a viable transportation fuel, it is in
> wide
> spread use in China -- most of the taxis in Chengdu run on CNG, as do
> hundreds of busses in CA. LPG (propane) is also a viable motor fuel in
> widespread use (many thousands of forklifts for example). Unfortunately,
> most do NOT recover the energy of compression (or the phase change energy
> --
> in the case of propane, vehicle cooling could be enhanced due to the
> endothermic process of propane vaporizing).
> 
> > For your further information, this got me to thinking about
> > the ecology movements "global warming" project. I would suspect
> > that the surface air temps might be rising everywhere as a
> > result of increased dew falls, as a result primarily of increased
> > release of minute particles from various volcanoes for the past
> > twenty (20) years or so.
> 
> A thousand years ago it was warm enough to farm Greenland -- then global
> cooling put an end to a couple hundred years of Greenland AG -- it is
> still
> too cold to farm Greenland as the Vikings did a thousand years ago. There
> are many natural cycles, and harmonics of natural cycles that affect
> global
> temperature much more than human factors do.
> 
> > For transport WHILE THE DEW IS FALLING -- maybe only twenty (20)
> > minutes , and at an uncertain time each day in some markets,
> > there might be a chance to build and market a commercially viable
> > transport vehicle powered by such a power source.
> 
> The "energy per cubic foot" would be abysmal! Not likely to be practical.
> 
> > Anyway, while awaiting the data for various useable BTU per cubic
> > foot, I am going to turn to self-propelled transport, ie
> > with the person being the power source. I am thinking that
> > there might be some advantage to providing a way to "smooth"
> > the effort, in contrast to the systems now, which require the
> > rider to exert whatever energy is require at the moment.
> > I rode a bicycle this week, and I can tell you from experience,
> > that some of those are very tough moments ! ( And I HAD a 12 speed.)
> >
> > I was thinking maybe compressed air, or compressed water.
> 
> Compressed gas energy storage IS practical, and in use (I'll dig up some
> references for you if you are interested). Compressing water is NOT
> practical (water is not very compressible) however, combining a compressed
> gas, AND a hydraulic fluid (could be water -- but usually oil is used) in
> a
> pressure accumulator, a very practical energy smoothing function can be
> realized. Eaton (a major manufacture of hydraulic equipment) has patented
> such a system for use on cars to recover braking energy. A hydraulic
> accumulator is capable of storing more energy per unit of mass and volume
> than the best batteries -- and will last longer too.
> 
> > Regardless of what is compressed, the people who probably know the
> > most about this is the maker of the SMEAL fire truck pumper.
> >
> > Is it proper for NewMobility to recruit stakeholders ? I am not
> > certain about it, but , like I say, SMEAL should have something to
> > contribute to any solutions we might come up with.
> >
> > For example, I understand from my local fireman, that the water
> > temp in his fire engine is stored at 250 degrees, F. Most of that
> > energy is the result of pumping it in at 100 psi, and holding it
> > at maybe 300 psi.
> 
> Most of that heat is probably caused by energy losses of running a pump
> without water flow to cool it-- not a direct result of compression.
> 
> > There is no need for us to repeat the mistakes of trams about Paris
> > in a previous century where they tried to then put another fire
> > onboard to INCREASE the pressure more. That idea was going
> > BACKWARDS !
> 
> Steam engines are more sustainable than muscle powered transport, but less
> sustainable than Diesel powered transport.
> 
> > To my mind, the FORWARD direction is to do something like use the
> > tires to contain the stuff we would want under pressure. Maintain
> > the pressure by dynamic braking going downhill, braking to stop,
> > and exertion by those onboard. Have something to change the
> > configuration
> > of the profile of the tire, independently both inside and out !
> > (Would be easy to do with a computer control system onboard.)
> 
> Pumping oil to hydraulic accumulators is much more efficient (about 90%)
> than compressing air (about 70%).
> 
> > Should be able to get plenty of locomotion from all that for
> > a small vehicle. Name it "THE SCOOTER", from a historical
> > predecessor they used to build in the midwest USA ( I think those
> > even had a sail on them, and are reputed to be used to transit
> > both water and ice.) ( ICE is good !) And for HIGH psi,
> > the markets are probably NOT humid, so we are talking: Finland,
> > Estonia, Poland, Saskatchewan, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Russia,
> > Lithia, Sudan (dropping the ice benefit), Cuiba Brazil, etc.
> 
> The fastest sail "boat" sailed on frozen water at more than 150mph.
> 
> >
> > What is the name of that device presented last year on American TV ?
> > I would think they made a mistake in not positioning the wheels in
> > tandem. But I suppose their target was very smooth surfaces, only.
> > I bet I would bounce right off of their platform in my surface
> > environment !
> 
> The segway is an over-priced toy, a $180 electric scooter will do the same
> job (except compensate for lack of self esteem).
> 
> > However, their "pole" to hold onto is probably necessary. In my recent
> > biking experience, I concluded after the third hour of transport,
> > that the bike set is NOT for sitting -- it's purpose is to provide
> > stability by having a fixed bar pass between your leggs ! The higher
> > the more leverage I got ! No wonder that Tour de France winner had
> > testicular cancer.
> 
> You should try out a recumbent bike -- defiantly designed for great
> sitting
> comfort (and much higher efficiency).
> 
> > All that seems to my mind very doable, within six (6) months
> 
> It IS being done now -- a few days ago a human powered vehicle went more
> than 1000km in 24 hours.
> 
> > Relly, we can't use "friends" , either -- that is a term for
> > Republicans in the USA, Maybe Newt Gingrich started that via
> > his "friends of Newt"
> ....
> > howard finch
> > copyright September the 29th, 2006
> > all rights reserved by howard finch, USA ga tech class of 1966
> > Karl Bevins, mentor
> 
> Most of my friends are still friends in spite of most of them being
> republicans and democrats.
> 
> Daryl Oster
> (c) 2006 all rights reserved. ETT, et3, MoPod, "space travel on earth"
> e-tube, e-tubes, and the logos thereof are trademarks and or service marks
> of et3.com Inc. For licensing information contact: POB 1423, Crystal River
> FL 34423-1423 (352)257-1310, et3 at et3.com <mailto:et3%40et3.com>  ,
> www.et3.com>
> 
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