[sustran] Re: I NEED ASSISTANCE: Useable BTU's per Cubic Foot, and per Pound (weight)

[Daryl Oster]

Eric,

Thank you, nice of you to post my 2 messages (and chart) to a group I was
banned from!  Why honor me now?  Is this an invitation back? I hope you
don't just want to see if anyone will beat up on me while my hands are tied.
BTW, please read the copyright notice on EVERY post I make.

At any rate, I am happy to have my posts and information posted for reasoned
review provided I am allowed as an unfettered participant.  Thanks again.

Best regards,

Daryl Oster
(c) 2006  all rights reserved.  ETT, et3, MoPod, "space travel on earth"
e-tube, e-tubes,  and the logos thereof are trademarks and or service marks
of et3.com Inc.  For licensing information contact: POB 1423, Crystal River
FL 34423-1423  (352)257-1310, et3 at et3.com , www.et3.com


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Britton [mailto:eric.britton at ecoplan.org]
> Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 9:07 AM
> To: NewMobilityCafe at yahoogroups.com
> Cc: et3 at et3.com
> Subject: I NEED ASSISTANCE: Useable BTU's per Cubic Foot, and per Pound
> (weight)
> 
>  On Behalf Of Daryl Oster
> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 5:58 PM
> To: xTransit at yahoogroups.com
> 
> 
> Howard,
> 
> The energy content data you desire is all published in many reference
> books,
> and is available in web accessible data bases -- it is all considered to
> be
> well known information that any engineer knows how to access as needed.
> 
> As far as being all on the same table, with all the same units, there is
> little need for that among transportation experts, as there are many more
> factors to consider when selecting a fuel. If it were as simple as just
> finding the substance with the greatest energy per unit of volume, we
> would
> all be using solid metallic phase triterium (extra heavy hydrogen)-- this
> has enormous energy potential (the thermonuclear fusion kind) but is not
> practical as a fuel (or food) for many good reasons that could not all be
> easily reflected in a chart.
> 
> The caloric energy content of foods is all published -- usually right on
> the
> package -- the conversion from BTU to calories is well known and easily
> accessible to anyone who is smart enough to type "conversion from BTU to
> calorie" in a Google search window (2519.9576 calories per BTU).
> 
> Due to the fact that many fuels are compressible, volume is NOT a good way
> to measure energy content -- as volume depends on pressure and
> temperature.
> Mass energy content is a much more useful (and reliable) measure of fuel
> energy. Fuel energy values are typically quoted in the units they are sold
> in -- gallons or liters for liquids (when was the last time you purchased
> gasoline by the cubic foot!).
> 
> The energy rating measure of foods AND fuels are accomplished in exactly
> the
> same way -- by using an oxygen bomb calorimeter (Google up "oxygen bomb
> calorimeter" if you do not know what this basic scientific device is, or
> how
> it functions).
> 
> NOTE: persons uninformed enough about: Energy units, energy content, and
> use
> of fuels, and energy storage media; to the point that they do not know how
> to find the very basic information, are not likely to know enough to put
> the
> information to practical use, or to advise others in the practical use.
> 
> Almost anyone will properly "refuse" to do something unreasonable.. I
> suggest that if you want such a list as you request, to first learn about
> energy units, their conversion, and how to use density data to calculate
> volume of a given mass at a particular temperature and pressure. THEN, I
> suggest you go to the library reference desk and ask for:
> 
> CRC handbook of chemistry and physics,
> Marks standard reference for mechanical engineers,
> Perry's chemical engineering handbook,
> College level text books on thermodynamics,
> Text and reference books on food value,
> Etc.
> 
> And comprise your own "energy content by volume" list if that is what you
> must have.
> 
> Another book I suggest you get and read is:
> The US Dpt. Of Energy, Energy Efficiency, and Renewable Energy
> "Transportation Energy Data Book" edited by Ms. Stacy Davis,
> Published by the Center for Transportation Analysis, Oak Ridge National
> Lab..
> 
> www-cta.ornl.gov/data
> http://cta.ornl.gov/data/index.shtml
> <http://cta.ornl.gov/data/index.shtml>
> The book is in the 25th edition, and may be downloaded for free -- or they
> will send you a hard copy in the US.
> 
> Daryl Oster
> (c) 2006  all rights reserved.  ETT, et3, MoPod, "space travel on earth"
> e-tube, e-tubes, and the logos thereof are trademarks and or service marks
> of et3.com Inc.  For licensing information contact: POB 1423, Crystal
> River
> FL 34423-1423  (352)257-1310, et3 at et3.com <mailto:et3%40et3.com>  ,
> www.et3.com
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: hhowderd
> >
> > Eric:
> >
> > I am working on the NewMobility project, and have gotten
> > stumped by the US Department of Energy, Office of Energy
> > Information.
> >
> > That office refuses to publish a table of useable BTU
> > per cubic foot of every substance known. I was thinking
> > that such a table would be most handy in our NewMobility project,
> > especially if it were presented in descending order of the
> > dimension: useable BTU per cubic foot. Other useful data
> > could also be shown in a format of only one line per substance.
> >
> > Of course we would want NAME OF SUBSTANCE (in English) maybe
> > any popular alias, maybe two different numbers in our dimension
> > to account for different uses, such as internal combustion
> > engine, external combustion engine, transmitted energy, or
> > person-propelled.
> >
> > For example, there would be an entry for CORN, another for
> > gasoline-87 octane, another for black-eyed peas, another
> > for SONY battery #23478, etc.
> >
> > Ideally, the data would be in a computerized data base, so
> > that a very user-friendly form could be filled out to cause
> > the data to be displayed any way the user wanted it displayed,
> > even taking options in language, metric measurement, additional
> > information about the substance, such as grade, or some price
> > estimate (maybe several price estimates in various markets),
> > and completely searchable, and sortable any way the user wanted it.
> >
> > I just had this idea that by all means, density should also be
> > included in the data: BTU per pound ! as well as pound per
> > cubic foot. And then in metrics, also. Let the user pick whatever
> > he wants, and have it searched and sorted the way he wants.
> >
> > I can not find anything like this on the internet
> >
> > When I asked for the information from the US Office of Energy
> > Information (US Department of Energy), they made a claim that they
> > had the data, and where on the internet I could access their data.
> >
> > However, what I found, as directed by the US Office of Energy
> > Information was many tables, using DIFFERENT dimensions, and
> > only for a few well-known fuels: Kerosene, naptha, etc.
> >
> > The most important thing in the table that I need is to have the
> > measurement in the SAME dimension, and I prefer Useable BTU per
> > cubic foot. Or maybe, to avoid confusion of what is "useable",
> > have that as one data item for each use, and just a laboratory
> > BTU per cubic foot as another data item.
> >
> > Is one of our stakeholders capable of supplying this necessary
> > data ?
> >
> >
> > best regards,
> >
> > howard finch
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > xTransit: New Mobility’s missing link!
> > Catch it from the New Mobility Agenda at http://www.newmobility.org
> <http://www.newmobility.org>
> > To post to the group: xTransit at yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:xTransit%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Please think twice before posting to the group as a whole.
> > (That may actually best be sent as a personal message)
> >
>