[sustran] Re: FW: [atraPolicy] Removal From Sustran List

[Sujit Patwardhan]

7 January 2005



Friends,

When someone starts asking questions like "why do you travel by air?" or 
"how would you get along without running water (transported via pipes or 
tubes) and electricity etc etc" it is a sure sign that he/she don't really 
have convincing arguments to support his views on "inappropriate" 
technologies.

This is done by proponents of mega-projects like big dams, high tech but 
totally inappropriate solutions that only benefit some vested interests, 
and those deeply rooted to "conventional" growth-oriented economics that 
fails to take the basic environmental realities into consideration. It's 
not a question of whether one "uses" an aircraft (or electricity or other 
modern amenities) for every single journey one needs to make, but more a 
question of ascribing "value" to certain options without giving enough 
consideration to the environmental foundations on which all development 
actually rests. Environmental reality cannot be wished away or made to 
evaporate through smart talk.

So let's get back to the real world where major quantity of the earth's 
resources are consumed by a country with a very small percentage of the 
earth's population, where fossil fuels are going to run out soon (the exact 
date isn't so important) and where the present pattern of development is 
clearly "unsustainable" over the long term. To get a better idea of what 
I'm trying to say it may be useful to visit:

http://www.adbusters.org/magazine/55/

In any case, let's get our basic coordinates in place and stop indulging in 
"pseudo science fiction" inspired road maps that will do nothing to improve 
sustainability-- and I'm not talking ONLY of the developing countries when 
I use this word.

--
Sujit Patwardhan
Parisar,
Pune,
India





At 06:23 AM 1/7/2005, you wrote:

>This message from Jack Slade should be about as clear as it gets.  Next time
>the "new mobility" folk jet to a conference; I hope they reflect on:
>How their trip would be progressing if carried out by muscle, sail, and
>rail;  and how they would get along without any running water (transported
>to them via pipes - er tubes); and electricity (transported to them by coal
>train, and wires;
>
>Daryl Oster
>(c) 2004  all rights reserved.  ETT, et3, MoPod, "space travel on earth"
>e-tube, e-tubes,  and the logos thereof are trademarks and or service marks
>of et3.com Inc.  For licensing information contact:    et3 at et3.com ,
>www.et3.com POB 1423, Crystal River FL 34423-1423  (352)257-1310
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jack Slade [mailto:skytrek_org at rogers.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 7:29 PM
> > To: A/T Policy
> > Subject: [atraPolicy] Removal From Sustran List
> >
> >  The following is a copy of the message I sent to Eric Britton. I am not
> > on his list, so I don't really care how he takes it.
> >
> > Jack Slade
> >
> > --!
> >  -Original
> >  Message-----From: Eric Britton
> > [CLIP]
> > >*         I have decided (unless pushed to the contrary) to omit from
> > this
> > >list all people with strong bureaucratic, institutional and economic
> > ties
> > >and interests, and specifically proponents of unproven technologies
> > and
> > >major infrastructure developments that are not fully and assiduously
> > cross-
> > >checked with the full range of sustainability criteria).
> > (COPY)
> >  Eric: This message from you was posted on our Transit-Policy chatline. I
> > am not sure what you classify as "sustainable". I sincerely hope you don't
> > mean the kind of sustainable transport that I grew up with. Just in case,
> > let me describe it to you.
> >
> > Quite a few of the people in my home town has horses, and carts or wagons.
> > There were no cars. Carfree City? There were a couple of small trucks that
> > brought in groceries and coal. A few of us had bicycles when we got older,
> > but not to ride to work,!
> >   because
> >  the nearest factory was 82 miles away. Without transport for raw
> > materials and manufactured goods factories cannot exist.
> >
> > While you are carrying out your project to improve the future, I think you
> > should keep this in mind. Future transport has a requirement much more
> > important than just moving people, because without it you will not have a
> > job to ride to. Another fact is that un-maintained roads begin to revert
> > back to nature after 10 years, and they are maintained, currently, by the
> > tax on gasoline, which is going to dry up as portable fuel becomes
> > scarcer. A fifteen mile pedal on a gravel road just to visit Aunt Mary is
> > not my idea of a pleasant Sunday afternoon outing.
> >
> > You are eliminating all of the people who are trying to solve the full
> > transportation problems of the future from your list. You are going to be
> > left with the people who hav a lot in common with the people who said
> > heavier than air flight was impossible (British Royal Society) and the
> > gentleman who wanted to close the patent office he worked in, because
> > "everything that could possibly be invented has already been invented".
> >
> > Somebody once said that if you are not part of the solu!
> >  tion you
> >  are part of the problem. I am not a member of your list, and please don't
> > try to enroll me.
> > Jack Slade         www.skytrek2000.org
> >
> >
> > --
> > This message has been scanned for viruses and
> > dangerous content by Netsignia Online <http://www.netsignia.net/> , and is
> > believed to be clean.


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Sujit Patwardhan
PARISAR
"Yamuna", ICS Colony,
Ganeshkhind Road,
Pune 411007
Telephone: +91 20 255 37955
Email: <sujit at vsnl.com>
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