[sustran] Re: Motorcycles Transportation Vietnam

[Brendan Finn]

Craig,

For the high level of transport deaths in Ho Chi Minh City, I wonder how
many of them were four+ wheelers against 2-wheelers or pedestrians, and how
many were wallies-on-wheels that would manage to kill themselves in any
scenario (as in Thailand during the annual festival). It would be
interesting to know whether the inherent safety of two-wheelers and
pedestrians (excluding the wild boys) is low, medium or high.

It seems to me that two-wheeler and pedestrian traffic in itself is safe,
but it just cannot co-exist with larger vehicles. And since the latter are
determined to be on the streets, gentler forms of transport must be removed
for their own safety.

With best wishes,


Brendan Finn,
ETTS, Ireland.
_______________________________________________________________________
Contact details are : e-mail : etts at indigo.ie   tel : +353.87.2530286

----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Townsend" <townsend at central.murdoch.edu.au>
To: "Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport"
<sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org>
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 9:54 PM
Subject: [sustran] Re: Motorcycles Transportation Vietnam


> Craig and Brendan,
>
> While I agree that the functioning of Vietnam's motorcycle-based
> urban transport systems are rather remarkable, we should not overlook the
> incredibly high transport related injuries and deaths. According to data
> collected on 100 cities worldwide in 1995, in terms of transport
> deaths per passenger kilometre of motorized travel, Ho Chi Minh City
ranked
> worst out of 100 cities from developing and developed countries. These
numbers
> have grown far worse over the last 10 years (rougly a four fold increase),
and
> the road toll (which have become the leading cause chilrens' deaths in
> Vietnam) is now a major concern of the government of Vietnam and the World
> Health Organisation.
>
> Craig Townsend
>
> Quoting Brendan Finn <etts at indigo.ie>:
>
> > Craig,
> >
> > I agree with your assessment. I visited Hanoi last year. After the
initial
> > shock of the waves of two-wheelers, I began to understand that it really
> > does flow, sort of like a large shoal of fish, Each individual really
does
> > have a sense of those around them, and behaves in a quite predictable
way.
> > It's also clear that while they may look chaotic, each rider does behave
in
> > a collision-avoidance mode. I did not once observe a collision or anyone
> > falling off their bicycle to avoid a collision. It's the first time I
had
> > come across such level of two-wheeler use, and it was obvious that it
works
> > really well.
> >
> > My observation was that all forms of two-wheelers (even those with
12-foot
> > pipes!) can interact very well with each other. Further, pedestrians can
> > quite easily cross the flows, as long as you time it reasonably well and
> > behave predictably (my initially-terrified wife agreed on this one,
> > eventually).
> >
> > However, the introduction of even one car into this changed the picture
> > dramatically. The scale of the car makes it a blockage, and the driving
> > style means that it barges its way through, unwilling or unable to
interact
> > sensitively with the two-wheelers. I do not believe that cars and
> > two-wheelers on Hanoi scale can interact safely.
> >
> > I didn't come to a conclusion about buses. Because there are far fewer
of
> > them than cars, they are highly visible, and they drive slowly in a
> > predictable (albeit unyielding) way, it seems that a certain number of
buses
> > can be absorbed in the flow of two-wheelers.
> >
> > My personal opinion is that as a pedestrian I was far safer crossing the
> > streets of down-town Hanoi than almost any where else I have been.
> > Nonetheless, I believe that the promoters of automobiles will win, and
that
> > very shortly two-wheeler travel will have become extremely dangerous due
to
> > the number of cars. Since it is the mode of availability and
affordability
> > for over 95% of Vietnamese, they will continue to use it and will suffer
> > high rates of casualty.
> >
> >
> > Brendan Finn,
> > ETTS, Ireland.
> >
> > _______________________________________________________________________
> > Contact details are : e-mail : etts at indigo.ie   tel : +353.87.2530286
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Craig August Johnson" <caj24 at cornell.edu>
> > To: "Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport"
> > <sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org>
> > Cc: <a3b14 at yahoogroups.com>; "Asia and the Pacific sustainable
transport"
> > <sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 6:28 AM
> > Subject: [sustran] Motorcycles Transportation Vietnam
> >
> >
> > > In terms of motorcycle use in Southeast Asia, I think there are
examples
> > > of how motorbikes have provided a viable alternative to an auto-based
> > > urban transportation system. In Vietnam, while the high rate of
motorcycle
> > > usage (60% of traffic is on motorbikes) has displaced pedestrians from
the
> > > streets. High numbers of motorbikes have been able to coexist quite
well
> > > with high usage of bikes (30% of traffic is on bicycles). This has
> > > contributed to a dynamic high energy street life that is quite
different
> > > than a more pedestrian-centered street life, but still viable. Sure
there
> > > are a greater number of collisions between
> > > motorbikes-pedestrians-bicycles, but these collisions are usually not
> > > fatal, and are rarely treated as accidents. Most of the road
fatalities in
> > > Vietnam happen on highways and not in the cities.
> > >
> > > Given the speed and the scope of motorization in Vietnam, the negative
> > > impacts of motorization that one acutely experience in America such as
> > > sprawl, smog, congestion, and the social inequality arising from
> > > inadequate public mass transportation are not found in Vietnamese
cities
> > > for the following reasons:
> > >
> > > 1. Motorcycles pollute far less than cars- especially four stroke
engine
> > > motorcycles. An 80cc four-stroke engine scooter can get 85-90 miles
per
> > > gallon much better than a typical car at around 30 mpg. Also, there
are
> > > many viable electric scooters on the market that are zero emissions.
> > >
> > > 2. Parking is not a big issue for motorcycles. Vietnamese cities are
> > > incredibly dense,   thus allowing cities to become quite dense and
still
> > > relatively uncongested given the high density.
> > >
> > > 3. While riding a motorbike, one has much greater connection to the
> > > surrounding street. One is not able to control the personal
environment
> > > like in a car, so the importance of street life and streetscape are
not
> > > lost by the increase in motorbikes.
> > >
> > > 4. Motorcycles are cheaper than cars making motorbikes a more
equitable
> > > form of individual motorized transportation.  In Vietnam, the price of
a
> > > car is 15x the price of a motorbike. As a result Vietnam has a rate of
> > > around 300 motor vehicles/1000 people. This is on par with many
> > > industrialized European countries such as Denmark and the Netherlands.
> > > Motorbikes have given all the benefits of owning private vehicle such
as
> > > personal mobility, speed, and no wait time while still being quite
> > > affordable.
> > >
> > > 5. Motorbikes do not take up as much space on the road. In Hanoi there
is
> > > less than .17 km of auto-accessible road length per 1000 residents.
This
> > > compares drastically to New York which is 9.97km and Singapore which
is
> > > .98km per 1000 residents.
> > >
> > > Indeed, Vietnamese cities have been able to economically develop at
great
> > > speed, partly because the cities have not had to build an auto-based
road
> > > infrastructure. Now, though Vietnam is building the road
infrastructure
> > > with funding from World Bank and JBIC, and the increase in cars that
is
> > > now occurring in Vietnam will contribute much more to traffic
> > > fatalities/congestion/pollution/sprawl/and social inequality than
> > > motorbikes. Like Eric said, the pro-auto policies are having a much
more
> > > detrimental effect than the huge increase in motorbikes.
> > >
> > >
> > > Craig Johnson
> > >
> > > Much of the statistics quoted were from both a JICA transportation
study
> > > in Hanoi, augmented with personal data collected this last summer