[sustran] Re: Bus and rail (fwd)

[Prof S L Dhingra]

Contd.

Correction  Please read  "Population 8-10 millon or more" in place of
population 80-100 million or more" in my earlier mail.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 20:10:17 +0530 (IST)
From: Prof S L Dhingra <dhingra at civil.iitb.ac.in>
To: sustran-discuss at jca.ax.apc.org
Subject: Re: [sustran] Re: Bus and rail


I agree to the figures given by Lloyd Wright for for bus and rail systems.
 Whlie Dedicated bus may cost half of the dedicated elevated rail system
for the capacity of 15000-30000 pphpd.Bus system is cost effective except
for the air pollution.Of course one would be looking for capacity of
60000-80000 pphpd in the mega cities with population of 8-10 million or
more will need high capacity transit.

  On Tue, 26 Feb 2002, Lloyd Wright wrote:

> I think one has to be careful about saying that bus rapid transit is not
> appropriate in large and dense cities.  Bogota has a population of 7 million
> people and 210 inhabitants per hectare.  Its TransMilenio bus system delivers
> high quality, high-capacity transit quite well within this urban structure.
> TransMilenio is hitting around 27,000 passengers per hour per direction (pphd)
> using an innovative express lane system.  Porto Alegre's bys system delivers
> 28,500 pphd peak using a single lane convoy technique.  And Sao Paulo hits
> 35,000 pphd using passing lanes on its busway.  There may be reasons to prefer
> rail over bus, but capacity is not so much the issue.
>
> In reality, I do not like to get into discussions pitting one form of transit
> against another since I prefer to be pro-transit regardless of the form.
> Actually, much of what we like about well-run metros, rail, and bus systems
> can be achieved with any of the options.  Namely, efficient pre-board fare
> collection, dedicated right of ways, clean and safe stations, rapid boarding
> and alighting, and superior customer service.  Whether these qualities are
> delivered on rubber tyres or a steel rail is sometimes less important than
> making sure that these issues are addressed (and sadly, most of the world's
> transit sytems do not).
>
> The reason high quality bus systems like those in Curitiba and Bogota deserve
> consideration is cost.  Curitiba was built for $1.5 million per kilometer and
> the very deluxe Bogota system was built for $5.3 million per kilometer.  The
> lowest cost light rail systems start at around $12 million per kilometer.
> Urban rail is typically in the range of $20 million to $30 million, and
> underground metros generally start at around $55 million and can be over $100
> million per kilometer. Nevertheless, there are certainly times when rail is
> appropriate, but one should not discount high quality bus systems, especially
> if it is a trade-off between having one line versus an entire network for the
> city.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Lloyd
>
> Lloyd Wright
> Director, Latin America
> Institute for Transportation & Development Policy
> 115 West 30th Street, Suite 1205
> New York, NY 10001
> tel. +1 212 629 8001
> fax  +1 212 629 8033
> email LFWright at usa.net
> web  www.itdp.org
>
> Craig Townsend <townsend at central.murdoch.edu.au> wrote:
> I agree wholeheartedly with Prof. Whitelegg, and would urge caution to our
> colleagues in cities of developing Asian nations in following Australia. While
> TS is an excellent measure in the Perth context, in some sense it is an
> "add-on" (along with busways and segregated cycle lanes) to one of the most
> automobile dependent transportation systems in the world. If you tell your
> road engineers to follow the Perth example, they may ask you for a blank
> cheque!
>
> I would also like to add to Dr. Dhingra's comments. Busways may be
> successful in mid-size, mid-density "provincial" cities like Curitiba,
> Nagoya, and Kunming; but there are compelling technical and political
> reasons why Sao Paulo, Tokyo, and Shanghai have high capacity rail systems
> running along main corridors, and why these systems are all being expanded.
> While mobilizing finance for heavy rail systems may be a challenge, as
> India's economy expands, large and high density mega-cities such as Mumbai and
> Kolkata must have rail, bus, and NMT oriented transport systems.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Craig Townsend
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=1
>

-- 
With warm compliments,
Sincerely,
dhingra
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* Dr S. L DHINGRA                          *
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