[asia-apec 721] Cda. Hansard, Sept.25/98 re: APEC'97

[Sharon R.A. Scharfe]

September 25, 1998

Excerpts from Official Transcript (English version)
House of Commons
Ottawa, Canada


...

Official Statements

...

APEC SUMMIT 

Mr. Grant McNally (Dewdney—Alouette, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, the peaceful
protesters gathered, charged with a fervent belief in democracy. They stood
tall and voiced their opposition to tyranny, dictatorship and the denial of
fundamental human rights. When the risk of embarrassment was too much to
handle, the dictatorial leader ordered the police to move in and use
excessive force to silence those students who dared speak out against the
regime. 

I am not talking about Tiananmen Square, I am talking about Vancouver. We
cannot take the incidents that transpired at the APEC conference lightly,
for the precedence they establish is frightening. Canadians gathered to use
their fundamental human rights to raise the awareness of atrocities taking
place in other countries. Rather than extol the virtues of democracy, the
Prime Minister and the foreign affairs minister decided to make the
dictators feel at home by sanitizing the scene and shutting down protesters. 

The Prime Minister is concerned about what legacy he will leave Canada. He
will be remembered as the leader who called a democratic election in his own
country a joke and revoked Canadian civil rights in order to satisfy a
brutal dictator. What a legacy. 

                                    *  *  *
...

ORAL QUESTION PERIOD

APEC SUMMIT 

Mr. John Reynolds (West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, in
1986, while the government was in opposition and the Conservative Party
brought in legislation for the Public Complaints Commission, the current
heritage minister said “I urge the government to make changes to allow the
Public Complaints Commission to investigate beyond the RCMP”. 

The Acting Prime Minister knows that the Public Complaints Commission cannot
investigate the role of the PMO. Can the minister tell the House if he will
make changes so we can guarantee that the PMO, if it is to be investigated,
can be investigated by the Public Complaints Commission? 

Hon. Herb Gray (Deputy Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the Public
Complaints Commission has been in existence for some 12 years. It has built
up a very fine record of outstanding work looking into complaints that are
brought before it. I do not see any reason why one should assume that the
Public Complaints Commission will not do everything necessary to thoroughly
investigate the matters that are brought before it at the request of the
student protesters. 

The student protesters want to see the Public Complaints Commission look
into this matter. Why  does the hon. member try to undermine the work of the
commission before it even begins? 

Mr. John Reynolds (West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, it is
nice for the Acting Prime Minister to say we are trying to undermine the
Public Complaints Commission. In 1989 when the Public Complaints Commission
wanted to investigate Norman Inkster's role in a budget leak, it was this
government that went all the way to the Supreme Court of Canada to keep the
Public Complaints Commission from doing its job. 

How can the Canadian public be assured that this government will allow the
Public Complaints Commission to investigate the role of the PMO in the APEC
affair? 

Hon. Herb Gray (Deputy Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the value of the
hon. member's question is shown by his assertion that this government was in
office in 1989. It was not. We would
have liked to have been, but we were not. 

Mr. Jim Abbott (Kootenay—Columbia, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, I ask the acting
Prime Minister this question. In 1989 there was an attempt to interfere on
the part of the government of the day and shut down the ability of the
Public Complaints Commission to do its job. As a matter of fact, their
position was that Mr. Inkster was no longer an employee of the RCMP, which
is the assertion that I was making yesterday. This board can only look into
the affairs of people who are employees or agents of the RCMP. 

Will the minister give us the assurance today that the Prime Minister and
the Prime Minister's office will— 

The Speaker: The Hon. Deputy Prime Minister. 

Hon. Herb Gray (Deputy Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the hon. member
talks about the government of the day. It was not this government. I do not
think that one should attempt to hold us in any way responsible for the
position taken at that time by another government. 

I also want to say that we want to see the commission do its work in an
active and thorough manner.  That is what the chair of the commission said
when she announced the inquiry. 

Let us see the commission start its work and get on with its work. If after
its report is out— 

...

APEC SUMMIT 

Mrs. Suzanne Tremblay (Rimouski—Mitis, BQ): Mr. Speaker, in connection with
the “peppergate” affair, the government repeatedly told us all week that the
RCMP public complaints commission will have all the answers to the questions
we have been asking since the beginning of this affair. 

If this is the case, how can the Deputy Prime Minister explain the remarks
made by his colleague, the hon. member for Vancouver Quadra, who stated that
the public complaints commission would not disclose all that took place at
the APEC summit? 

Hon. Herb Gray (Deputy Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I will check to
make sure the hon. member was not misquoted, but as far as we are concerned,
the commission is in a position to  conduct an in-depth investigation into
these incidents, and we expect the hearings to start as soon as possible. 

Mrs. Suzanne Tremblay (Rimouski—Mitis, BQ): Mr. Speaker, what the hon.
member for Vancouver Quadra said is that the mandate of the RCMP commission
would be limited to determining whether RCMP actions were in accordance with
the law and whether the nature of these actions was appropriate. 

So, will the government give us every assurance that this commission will be
able to get to the bottom of the events in Vancouver, including the Prime
Minister's involvement? 

Hon. Herb Gray (Deputy Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the hon. member's
question is purely speculative and hypothetical, since the Prime Minister
has not been asked to appear before the commission. We already know,
however, that two senior officials in the Prime Minister's office are
prepared to testify: senior secretary Jean Pelletier and former director of
operations Jean Carle.  This goes to show how open we plan to be with the
commission. 

Mr. Richard Marceau (Charlesbourg, BQ): Mr. Speaker, in December 1997, the
auditor general wrote the following about the RCMP commission, and I quote
“The Commission needs to significantly improve the way it carries out public
hearings, both by prescribing clear and precise terms of reference for each
hearing and by providing its members with training in conducting hearings”. 

With the commission unable to clarify its terms of reference and to properly
hold hearings, how can the minister say to us that he can give us all the
details of the sombre events in Vancouver? 

Hon. Herb Gray (Deputy Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, when the public
hearings were announced, the chair of the commission, Ms. Heafey, said, and
I quote “The commission has  received 42 complaints concerning the incidents
that occurred on the campus of UBC. I think a public hearing is the best way
to guarantee the public that these complaints will be thoroughly, fairly and
impartially examined”. 

Mr. Richard Marceau (Charlesbourg, BQ): Mr. Speaker, let's get serious. Even
the present government in opposition had doubts about the credibility of the
RCMP complaints commission. 

In 1986, the current Minister of Canadian Heritage, who is sitting opposite,
said that the government of the time appreciated the work of the commission
because it would help it get out of trouble. 

Are we to understand that the government is hiding behind this commission
because it has been in trouble for a week now? 

Hon. Herb Gray (Deputy Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, since 1986, the
commission has had a record of fine work—for some 12 years. Furthermore, the
work of this commission, created by Parliament, is non partisan and at arm's
length from the government. The chair has assured the public that the
commission is prepared to do this sort of work, and we should wait for the
hearings. 

[English] 

Ms. Alexa McDonough (Halifax, NDP): Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister keeps
dodging questions about his direct involvement and that of his staff in
suppressing peaceful protests at APEC. 

The correspondence between UBC and the PMO clearly documents the extent of
his involvement. 

When will the Prime Minister come clean about his role in the disgraceful
Spray-PEC suppression of civil rights? 

Hon. Herb Gray (Deputy Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, when will the
leader of the NDP withdraw and apologize for the statement she made in the
House yesterday, which was totally incorrect, that Jean Carle had declared
that he had destroyed documents? That is not correct. 

Instead of asking her question the first thing she should have done was got
to her feet and apologized if she had any respect for the traditions of this
House. 

Ms. Alexa McDonough (Halifax, NDP): Mr. Speaker, it is quite clear they do
not want to hear the facts. 

When the UBC president wrote to the Prime Minister complaining about PMO
decisions to unreasonably restrict protesters, she got a letter from Jean
Carle, a PMO staffer, and a phone call from the PMO's closest adviser, none
other than Eddie Goldenberg. 

When is the Prime Minister going to stop denying his role in this APEC fiasco? 

Hon. Herb Gray (Deputy Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I think the first
thing to do is check the accuracy of the hon. member's assertions. It will
likely turn out that they have no more value than what she wrongly asserted
yesterday. 

                                    *  *  *
...

[end]





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