From banmt at yahoo.com Fri Oct 1 11:43:27 2010 From: banmt at yahoo.com (AD) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 19:43:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sustran] Re: First urban railway route in Hanoi under construction In-Reply-To: <46E2E1971BCEC1459149FBB1A4B4342C09DBE60E@wricsex029330.WRI.CRM.Local> References: <46E2E1971BCEC1459149FBB1A4B4342C09DBE60E@wricsex029330.WRI.CRM.Local> Message-ID: <616546.90177.qm@web112113.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Dear Mr. Padiyar, You wrote "According to global standards for rail based public transport, this is the only alternative available for meeting the demand - Tokyo, Hong Kong...".I thought some BRT systems if planned properly can technically get the same capacity as rail-based public transport. For me, which technology (subway, light rail, BRT) is used is not that important because they are all mass transit. What government in a developing country should concern is how to use as less as possible money on mass transit option (of course with the same capacity) so that the extra money can be used to invest in improving pedestrian condition, which actually is the underlying prerequisite for any bus/rail trip. And also, as mentioned by Lee Schipper, any of these mass transit has to compete with motorcycles (or in other words - convenience). Therefore by taking the existing road space for its busways, BRT does the job better than its counterparts: subway or elevated rail. With best regards, AD. ________________________________ From: Lee Schipper To: K P Padiyar ; sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org Sent: Thu, September 30, 2010 12:52:02 AM Subject: [sustran] Re: First urban railway route in Hanoi under construction I think it is worth mentioning that Hanoi has at least twice the ownership rate of two-wheelers of any city in India, more than 1 two wheeler per household. That means that any urban rail way or BRT (one of each is under development) has to compete with one of the most motorized populations in the entire world. Here is a bit of background from my EMBARQ days. http://www.embarq.org/en/our-work/publications/hanoi-vietnam Commuting distances are relatively short, one reason why the conventional bus system started 10 years ago and two wheelers are so popular, not to mention conventional bicycles and even more conventional feet. There is a master plan for developing more distant suburbs where an urban rail network could be useful, but that may depend on how the authorities deal with the cost of two wheeler fuel and whether there is a sensible way of charging for increasingly crowded road space in the main parts of Hanoi. Lee Schipper, Ph.D. Project Scientist, Global Metropolitan Studies, UC Berkeley Senior Research Engineer, Precourt Energy Efficiency Center, Stanford Univ. phone +1 510 642 6889 fax +1 510 642 6061 cell for emergencies +1 202 262 7476 -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of K P Padiyar Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 10:44 AM To: sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org Subject: [sustran] Re: First urban railway route in Hanoi under construction Dear All, Even though I have subscribed to this group since 2005, I have not participated in their discussions so far. With my background of more than 16 years of my service life in operating maintaining, planning and designing suburban rail services of Indian Railways in Mumbai which today carries nearly 7 million passengers daily on 5 HRT corridors of which two carry main line passenger and freight traffic also. Design capacity of these corridors is 1.2 million for dedicated corridors and half that for mainline corridors, I felt emboldened to muscle in on the august array of transport specialists on this issue. According to Demografia 2008, Hanoi is the second largest city of Vietnam with a population of 3 million with average population density of 154.5 persons/ha. According to global standards for rail based public transport, this is the only alternative available for meeting the demand - Tokyo, Hong Kong. Mumbai Moscow. (Dr. Kenworthy's work for UITP and WB in 1990s.). Hanoi is planning for a capacity of 28000 pphpd which works out as 467 000 trips/day which is low compared to likely demand with CBD densities (Job + population) exceeding 300 as in Mumbai where Mumbai Island has a density of 800/ha. Mumbai also had difficulties in acquiring land for Railways which was solved by promulgating TDR for the entire Mumbai Metropolitan Region with an estimated population of 21 million (17 million in 2001, 2011 census results are not yet out). It was an innovative solution first issued by local State Government in 1991 and now copied by other metros of India. Even US is having such rules in some cities with heavy rail. Vietnam has a technical collaboration agreement with India, since it was was united and IR has participated in some of their projects for Railways. Mumbai has a separate Joint sector Corporation Mumbai Rail Vikas Corporation undertaking Railway component of Mumbai Urban Transport Projects Jointly funder by IBRD, Indian Government (through IR) and Maharashtra Government. They are available at www.mrvc.indianrail.gov.in Sanctioned projects under execution are about 2 billion dollars. Members of the group needing additional information on Indian high capacity public transport systems can contact me and I will try my best to get it from original sources. IR uses wide bodied coaches 3667 mm and Dual traction system 1500 V. D.C. (under replacement) and 25 kV single phase 50 Hz system in Mumbai and other metropolitan areas. However Hanoi project as per data on the site quoted in the letter, mentions Chinese Government's aid for the project. Ho Chi Minh city in Vietnam has recently got Japanese aid for a Metro Rail System Project (Financed by the Japan Special Fund) under ADB aegis www.adb.org/projects/project.asp?id=39500. With regards. K. P. Padiyar -------------------------------------------------- From: "AD" Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 5:56 PM To: Subject: [sustran] First urban railway route in Hanoi under construction > Source: > http://english.vietnamnet.vn/social/201009/First-urban-railway-route-i > n-Hanoi-under-construction-937891/ > > > Looking forward to see the fare and wonder how could they make it more > tempted than that of riding a motorcycle for people. > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > -------------------------------------------------------- To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss -------------------------------------------------------- If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). -------------------------------------------------------- To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss -------------------------------------------------------- If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From schipper at wri.org Fri Oct 1 11:48:36 2010 From: schipper at wri.org (Lee Schipper) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 22:48:36 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: First urban railway route in Hanoi under construction In-Reply-To: <616546.90177.qm@web112113.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <46E2E1971BCEC1459149FBB1A4B4342C09DBE60E@wricsex029330.WRI.CRM.Local> <616546.90177.qm@web112113.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46E2E1971BCEC1459149FBB1A4B4342C09E1B48D@wricsex029330.WRI.CRM.Local> AD's point about costs must be underscored. Cost per unit of capacity (i.e., money/person-hour ) and money/km of line have to be weigh carefully. Where surface is a lot cheaper than a Metro because of low land costs, one still can consider whether a BRT line can be the first step, replaced by fixed rail when growth of ridership and development of the corridor justify the heavier system. One reason we went for Metrobus in Mexico City along its busiest street was the soils would not tolerate more metro, and probably no heavy rail. (Light rail is running there elsewhere, not to mention lots of metro lines.) what has NOT been achieved yet there- or to my knowledge anywhere in India- is an integrated system with all modes on the same smart card. What is impressive, for example, is the Karnataka State Bus terminal in Bangalore, where thousands of two wheelers are neatly parked next to the spaces for dozens of buses. But the Autorickshaws are not integrated. Will a new metro in Bangalore pass this station? Lee Schipper, Ph.D Project Scientist Global Metropolitan Studies 1950 Addison St #202 University of California Berkeley CA 94704-USA TEL +1 510 642 6889 FAX +1 510 642 6061 CELL +1 202 262 7476? skype: mrmeter http://metrostudies.berkeley.edu/ Senior Research Engineer Precourt Energy Efficiency Center Stanford University ? -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of AD Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 7:43 PM To: sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org Subject: [sustran] Re: First urban railway route in Hanoi under construction Dear Mr. Padiyar, You wrote "According to global standards for rail based public transport, this is the only alternative available for meeting the demand - Tokyo, Hong Kong...".I thought some BRT systems if planned properly can technically get the same capacity as rail-based public transport. For me, which technology (subway, light rail, BRT) is used is not that important because they are all mass transit. What government in a developing country should concern is how to use as less as possible money on mass transit option (of course with the same capacity) so that the extra money can be used to invest in improving pedestrian condition, which actually is the underlying prerequisite for any bus/rail trip. And also, as mentioned by Lee Schipper, any of these mass transit has to compete with motorcycles (or in other words - convenience). Therefore by taking the existing road space for its busways, BRT does the job better than its counterparts: subway or elevated rail. With best regards, AD. ________________________________ From: Lee Schipper To: K P Padiyar ; sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org Sent: Thu, September 30, 2010 12:52:02 AM Subject: [sustran] Re: First urban railway route in Hanoi under construction I think it is worth mentioning that Hanoi has at least twice the ownership rate of two-wheelers of any city in India, more than 1 two wheeler per household. That means that any urban rail way or BRT (one of each is under development) has to compete with one of the most motorized populations in the entire world. Here is a bit of background from my EMBARQ days. http://www.embarq.org/en/our-work/publications/hanoi-vietnam Commuting distances are relatively short, one reason why the conventional bus system started 10 years ago and two wheelers are so popular, not to mention conventional bicycles and even more conventional feet. There is a master plan for developing more distant suburbs where an urban rail network could be useful, but that may depend on how the authorities deal with the cost of two wheeler fuel and whether there is a sensible way of charging for increasingly crowded road space in the main parts of Hanoi. Lee Schipper, Ph.D. Project Scientist, Global Metropolitan Studies, UC Berkeley Senior Research Engineer, Precourt Energy Efficiency Center, Stanford Univ. phone +1 510 642 6889 fax +1 510 642 6061 cell for emergencies +1 202 262 7476 -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of K P Padiyar Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 10:44 AM To: sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org Subject: [sustran] Re: First urban railway route in Hanoi under construction Dear All, Even though I have subscribed to this group since 2005, I have not participated in their discussions so far. With my background of more than 16 years of my service life in operating maintaining, planning and designing suburban rail services of Indian Railways in Mumbai which today carries nearly 7 million passengers daily on 5 HRT corridors of which two carry main line passenger and freight traffic also. Design capacity of these corridors is 1.2 million for dedicated corridors and half that for mainline corridors, I felt emboldened to muscle in on the august array of transport specialists on this issue. According to Demografia 2008, Hanoi is the second largest city of Vietnam with a population of 3 million with average population density of 154.5 persons/ha. According to global standards for rail based public transport, this is the only alternative available for meeting the demand - Tokyo, Hong Kong. Mumbai Moscow. (Dr. Kenworthy's work for UITP and WB in 1990s.). Hanoi is planning for a capacity of 28000 pphpd which works out as 467 000 trips/day which is low compared to likely demand with CBD densities (Job + population) exceeding 300 as in Mumbai where Mumbai Island has a density of 800/ha. Mumbai also had difficulties in acquiring land for Railways which was solved by promulgating TDR for the entire Mumbai Metropolitan Region with an estimated population of 21 million (17 million in 2001, 2011 census results are not yet out). It was an innovative solution first issued by local State Government in 1991 and now copied by other metros of India. Even US is having such rules in some cities with heavy rail. Vietnam has a technical collaboration agreement with India, since it was was united and IR has participated in some of their projects for Railways. Mumbai has a separate Joint sector Corporation Mumbai Rail Vikas Corporation undertaking Railway component of Mumbai Urban Transport Projects Jointly funder by IBRD, Indian Government (through IR) and Maharashtra Government. They are available at www.mrvc.indianrail.gov.in Sanctioned projects under execution are about 2 billion dollars. Members of the group needing additional information on Indian high capacity public transport systems can contact me and I will try my best to get it from original sources. IR uses wide bodied coaches 3667 mm and Dual traction system 1500 V. D.C. (under replacement) and 25 kV single phase 50 Hz system in Mumbai and other metropolitan areas. However Hanoi project as per data on the site quoted in the letter, mentions Chinese Government's aid for the project. Ho Chi Minh city in Vietnam has recently got Japanese aid for a Metro Rail System Project (Financed by the Japan Special Fund) under ADB aegis www.adb.org/projects/project.asp?id=39500. With regards. K. P. Padiyar -------------------------------------------------- From: "AD" Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 5:56 PM To: Subject: [sustran] First urban railway route in Hanoi under construction > Source: > http://english.vietnamnet.vn/social/201009/First-urban-railway-route-i > n-Hanoi-under-construction-937891/ > > > Looking forward to see the fare and wonder how could they make it more > tempted than that of riding a motorcycle for people. > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > -------------------------------------------------------- To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss -------------------------------------------------------- If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). -------------------------------------------------------- To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss -------------------------------------------------------- If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). -------------------------------------------------------- To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss -------------------------------------------------------- If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From kanthikannan at gmail.com Fri Oct 1 18:51:01 2010 From: kanthikannan at gmail.com (Kanthi Kannan) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 15:21:01 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: Update with the officials in Hyd : Oct 1, 2010 Message-ID: <4ca5af0b.0e3f970a.07fe.0ff4@mx.google.com> Dear all Greetings!! Update with the discussions of the Zonal commissioner, Central Zone, GHMC 1. The GHMC has in principle agreed to fund the expenses of a walkability survey conducted by the R2W for the entire central zone. 2. The GHMC is also in the process of calling for an expression of interest with interested parties for a revenue model of the walkways. 3. The GHMC in principle has agreed that all main roads of the city can be monitored by the local area people and that it was willing to constitute a pedestrian safety cell to monitor this on a daily basis. For each of the above what are the issues? 1. For us to conduct a walkability survey, we need to take the help of the following A. Architects B. Urban Planners C. Civil Society D. Students E. Others The survey conducted by us will only to point out the various issues on the walkway and it will up to the GHMC to take it up for implementation. Though in principle the GHMC has agreed that implementation will be done once a part of the survey is completed 2. We have submitted to the GHMC a draft of the EOI and we wait for the clearance from the commissioner for its notification 3. For this I think we need to get the residential welfare associations involved and try and check if the residents of colonies alongside the main roads and even the shop keepers on the main roads get involved in such an exercise As has been pointed out very often, the issue of walkways is extremely complex and also benefits every one but I think that we have been unable to project it as a useful thing even for shop keepers because of the rising pollution from transport Regarding the traffic police, the suggestion that has come from the traffic police head is that we go prepared with simple changes that can be done at about 4/ 5 junctions and he commits to those changes Please do send in your thoughts as soon as possible and also whether of the agencies here would be interested in partnering the R2W. Thanks Regards Kanthi From adhiraj.joglekar at googlemail.com Fri Oct 1 21:21:15 2010 From: adhiraj.joglekar at googlemail.com (Dr Adhiraj Joglekar) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 13:21:15 +0100 Subject: [sustran] Re: First urban railway route in Hanoi under construction In-Reply-To: <616546.90177.qm@web112113.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <46E2E1971BCEC1459149FBB1A4B4342C09DBE60E@wricsex029330.WRI.CRM.Local> <616546.90177.qm@web112113.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The only alternative available...... in medicine (being a doctor) there is a dictum, you only need one exception to the rule to disprove a dogmatic belief / theory. London tubes do 3.5 million passenger trips per day, London buses carry double this number. And its a traditional bus service with handful of bus lanes. Same is true with Mumbai buses considering they do not cover the length of tracks beyond corporation limits as the trains do. BEST does 4.5 million trips a day in a geographically smaller area. Considering that in Mumbai population has shot to 20 million (against London's 8m) they have half the number of buses than in London and no bus lanes. Those keen may look up Chennai buses and their numbers. Bangalore also has a bus service managing 3m trips a day. In Mumbai 60 odd flyovers (which are no use to buses) have made life a hell by trying to make way for more cars. Mumbai actually has the sea link as its best TDM example, the sea link will come to a halt if its use was FREE. The bottom line is to free up our roads and use buses - they offer a door to door service as against trains and even BRT which need dedicated corridors - it takes me 20 minutes walking to get to stations (it takes 8 minutes on average to walk 500 meters) for my daily commute in London by train while bus stops are just outside on main street. Even after changing buses and respecting 3 dozen signals on road, the bus on average is only 10 minutes more. Halve the cars and the bus would beat the train!! Further, our city planners and slum redevelopment authorities want to place half a million daily wage earners who live and work in their shanties of Dharavi producing $1 billion worth of turnover every year in to communist style matchbox flats in vertical estates (which ironically are being demolished in UK in some places). This would free up land for luxury flats for the neo rich and double population of Dharavi. More crucially businesses may relocate and suddenly what was a sustainable model (bus for the lack of sanitation) changes to people being forced to commute on so called elevated metro trains. Cheers. AJ On 1 October 2010 03:43, AD wrote: > Dear Mr. Padiyar, > > You wrote "According to global standards for rail based public > transport, this is the only alternative available for meeting the demand > - Tokyo, Hong Kong...".I thought some BRT systems if planned properly can > technically get the same capacity as rail-based public transport. > > For me, which technology (subway, light rail, BRT) is used is not that > important > because they are all mass transit. What government in a developing country > should concern is how to use as less as possible money on mass transit > option > (of course with the same capacity) so that the extra money can be used to > invest > in improving pedestrian condition, which actually is the underlying > prerequisite > for any bus/rail trip. > > > And also, as mentioned by Lee Schipper, any of these mass transit has to > compete > with motorcycles (or in other words - convenience). Therefore by taking the > existing road space for its busways, BRT does the job better than its > counterparts: subway or elevated rail. > > With best regards, > > AD. > > > ________________________________ > From: Lee Schipper > To: K P Padiyar ; sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org > Sent: Thu, September 30, 2010 12:52:02 AM > Subject: [sustran] Re: First urban railway route in Hanoi under > construction > > I think it is worth mentioning that Hanoi has at least twice the > ownership rate of two-wheelers of any city in India, more than 1 two > wheeler per household. That means that any urban rail way or BRT (one of > each is under development) has to compete with one of the most motorized > populations in the entire world. Here is a bit of background from my > EMBARQ days. > http://www.embarq.org/en/our-work/publications/hanoi-vietnam > Commuting distances are relatively short, one reason why the > conventional bus system started 10 years ago and two wheelers are so > popular, not to mention conventional bicycles and even more conventional > feet. There is a master plan for developing more distant suburbs where > an urban rail network could be useful, but that may depend on how the > authorities deal with the cost of two wheeler fuel and whether there is > a sensible way of charging for increasingly crowded road space in the > main parts of Hanoi. > > > Lee Schipper, Ph.D. > Project Scientist, Global Metropolitan Studies, UC Berkeley > Senior Research Engineer, Precourt Energy Efficiency Center, Stanford > Univ. > phone +1 510 642 6889 > fax +1 510 642 6061 > cell for emergencies +1 202 262 7476 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org@list.jca.apc.org > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper > =wri.org@list.jca.apc.org] On > Behalf Of K P Padiyar > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 10:44 AM > To: sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org > Subject: [sustran] Re: First urban railway route in Hanoi under > construction > > Dear All, > > Even though I have subscribed to this group since 2005, I have not > participated in their discussions so far. With my background of more > than 16 years of my service life in operating maintaining, planning and > designing suburban rail services of Indian Railways in Mumbai which > today carries nearly 7 million passengers daily on 5 HRT corridors of > which two carry main line passenger and freight traffic also. Design > capacity of these corridors is 1.2 million for dedicated corridors and > half that for mainline corridors, I felt emboldened to muscle in on the > august array of transport specialists on this issue. > > According to Demografia 2008, Hanoi is the second largest city of > Vietnam with a population of 3 million with average population density > of 154.5 persons/ha. According to global standards for rail based public > transport, this is the only alternative available for meeting the demand > - Tokyo, Hong Kong. Mumbai Moscow. (Dr. Kenworthy's work for UITP and WB > in 1990s.). Hanoi is planning for a capacity of 28000 pphpd which works > out as 467 000 trips/day which is low compared to likely demand with CBD > densities (Job + > population) exceeding 300 as in Mumbai where Mumbai Island has a density > of 800/ha. > > Mumbai also had difficulties in acquiring land for Railways which was > solved by promulgating TDR for the entire Mumbai Metropolitan Region > with an estimated population of 21 million (17 million in 2001, 2011 > census results are not yet out). It was an innovative solution first > issued by local State Government in 1991 and now copied by other metros > of India. Even US is having such rules in some cities with heavy rail. > Vietnam has a technical collaboration agreement with India, since it was > was united and IR has participated in some of their projects for > Railways. > Mumbai has a separate Joint sector Corporation Mumbai Rail Vikas > Corporation undertaking Railway component of Mumbai Urban Transport > Projects Jointly funder by IBRD, Indian Government (through IR) and > Maharashtra Government. > They are available at www.mrvc.indianrail.gov.in Sanctioned projects > under execution are about 2 billion dollars. > > Members of the group needing additional information on Indian high > capacity public transport systems can contact me and I will try my best > to get it from original sources. IR uses wide bodied coaches 3667 mm and > Dual traction system 1500 V. D.C. (under replacement) and 25 kV single > phase 50 Hz system in Mumbai and other metropolitan areas. However Hanoi > project as per data on the site quoted in the letter, mentions Chinese > Government's aid for the project. > > Ho Chi Minh city in Vietnam has recently got Japanese aid for a Metro > Rail System Project (Financed by the Japan Special Fund) under ADB aegis > www.adb.org/projects/project.asp?id=39500. > > With regards. > > K. P. Padiyar > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "AD" > Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 5:56 PM > To: > Subject: [sustran] First urban railway route in Hanoi under construction > > > Source: > > http://english.vietnamnet.vn/social/201009/First-urban-railway-route-i > > n-Hanoi-under-construction-937891/ > > > > > > Looking forward to see the fare and wonder how could they make it more > > > tempted than that of riding a motorcycle for people. > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the > real > > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > > > ================================================================ > > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing > countries > > (the 'Global South'). > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable > and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global > South'). > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > From patwardhan.sujit at gmail.com Fri Oct 1 21:36:04 2010 From: patwardhan.sujit at gmail.com (Sujit Patwardhan) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 18:06:04 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: First urban railway route in Hanoi under construction In-Reply-To: References: <46E2E1971BCEC1459149FBB1A4B4342C09DBE60E@wricsex029330.WRI.CRM.Local> <616546.90177.qm@web112113.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: 1 October 2010 Dear Adhiraj, This makes imminent sense to me, but for common citizens the attraction for Metro grows with each passing day............. As strong advocates of Public Transport we want to be fair in judging the metro and not damn it out of hand but so far the case for a Metro seems unconvincing. We had organized a National Round Table Meeting on Metro Rail in Pune on 21st ans 22nd July. The Report from that programme is down-loadable from the Parisar website. Here is the link: http://www.parisar.org/activities/events/122-the-city-and-the-metro.html We will apprecaite your comments and suggestions. Many thanks -- Sujit On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 5:51 PM, Dr Adhiraj Joglekar < adhiraj.joglekar@googlemail.com> wrote: > The only alternative available...... in medicine (being a doctor) there is > a > dictum, you only need one exception to the rule to disprove a dogmatic > belief / theory. > > London tubes do 3.5 million passenger trips per day, London buses carry > double this number. And its a traditional bus service with handful of bus > lanes. > > Same is true with Mumbai buses considering they do not cover the length of > tracks beyond corporation limits as the trains do. BEST does 4.5 million > trips a day in a geographically smaller area. Considering that in Mumbai > population has shot to 20 million (against London's 8m) they have half the > number of buses than in London and no bus lanes. Those keen may look up > Chennai buses and their numbers. Bangalore also has a bus service managing > 3m trips a day. > > In Mumbai 60 odd flyovers (which are no use to buses) have made life a hell > by trying to make way for more cars. Mumbai actually has the sea link as > its > best TDM example, the sea link will come to a halt if its use was FREE. > > The bottom line is to free up our roads and use buses - they offer a door > to > door service as against trains and even BRT which need dedicated corridors > - > it takes me 20 minutes walking to get to stations (it takes 8 minutes on > average to walk 500 meters) for my daily commute in London by train while > bus stops are just outside on main street. Even after changing buses and > respecting 3 dozen signals on road, the bus on average is only 10 minutes > more. Halve the cars and the bus would beat the train!! > > Further, our city planners and slum redevelopment authorities want to place > half a million daily wage earners who live and work in their shanties of > Dharavi producing $1 billion worth of turnover every year in to communist > style matchbox flats in vertical estates (which ironically are being > demolished in UK in some places). This would free up land for luxury flats > for the neo rich and double population of Dharavi. More crucially > businesses > may relocate and suddenly what was a sustainable model (bus for the lack of > sanitation) changes to people being forced to commute on so called elevated > metro trains. > > Cheers. > > AJ > > > > > On 1 October 2010 03:43, AD wrote: > > > Dear Mr. Padiyar, > > > > You wrote "According to global standards for rail based public > > transport, this is the only alternative available for meeting the demand > > - Tokyo, Hong Kong...".I thought some BRT systems if planned properly can > > technically get the same capacity as rail-based public transport. > > > > For me, which technology (subway, light rail, BRT) is used is not that > > important > > because they are all mass transit. What government in a developing > country > > should concern is how to use as less as possible money on mass transit > > option > > (of course with the same capacity) so that the extra money can be used to > > invest > > in improving pedestrian condition, which actually is the underlying > > prerequisite > > for any bus/rail trip. > > > > > > And also, as mentioned by Lee Schipper, any of these mass transit has to > > compete > > with motorcycles (or in other words - convenience). Therefore by taking > the > > existing road space for its busways, BRT does the job better than its > > counterparts: subway or elevated rail. > > > > With best regards, > > > > AD. > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Lee Schipper > > To: K P Padiyar ; sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org > > Sent: Thu, September 30, 2010 12:52:02 AM > > Subject: [sustran] Re: First urban railway route in Hanoi under > > construction > > > > I think it is worth mentioning that Hanoi has at least twice the > > ownership rate of two-wheelers of any city in India, more than 1 two > > wheeler per household. That means that any urban rail way or BRT (one of > > each is under development) has to compete with one of the most motorized > > populations in the entire world. Here is a bit of background from my > > EMBARQ days. > > http://www.embarq.org/en/our-work/publications/hanoi-vietnam > > Commuting distances are relatively short, one reason why the > > conventional bus system started 10 years ago and two wheelers are so > > popular, not to mention conventional bicycles and even more conventional > > feet. There is a master plan for developing more distant suburbs where > > an urban rail network could be useful, but that may depend on how the > > authorities deal with the cost of two wheeler fuel and whether there is > > a sensible way of charging for increasingly crowded road space in the > > main parts of Hanoi. > > > > > > Lee Schipper, Ph.D. > > Project Scientist, Global Metropolitan Studies, UC Berkeley > > Senior Research Engineer, Precourt Energy Efficiency Center, Stanford > > Univ. > > phone +1 510 642 6889 > > fax +1 510 642 6061 > > cell for emergencies +1 202 262 7476 > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org@list.jca.apc.org > > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper > > > =wri.org@list.jca.apc.org] On > > Behalf Of K P Padiyar > > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 10:44 AM > > To: sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org > > Subject: [sustran] Re: First urban railway route in Hanoi under > > construction > > > > Dear All, > > > > Even though I have subscribed to this group since 2005, I have not > > participated in their discussions so far. With my background of more > > than 16 years of my service life in operating maintaining, planning and > > designing suburban rail services of Indian Railways in Mumbai which > > today carries nearly 7 million passengers daily on 5 HRT corridors of > > which two carry main line passenger and freight traffic also. Design > > capacity of these corridors is 1.2 million for dedicated corridors and > > half that for mainline corridors, I felt emboldened to muscle in on the > > august array of transport specialists on this issue. > > > > According to Demografia 2008, Hanoi is the second largest city of > > Vietnam with a population of 3 million with average population density > > of 154.5 persons/ha. According to global standards for rail based public > > transport, this is the only alternative available for meeting the demand > > - Tokyo, Hong Kong. Mumbai Moscow. (Dr. Kenworthy's work for UITP and WB > > in 1990s.). Hanoi is planning for a capacity of 28000 pphpd which works > > out as 467 000 trips/day which is low compared to likely demand with CBD > > densities (Job + > > population) exceeding 300 as in Mumbai where Mumbai Island has a density > > of 800/ha. > > > > Mumbai also had difficulties in acquiring land for Railways which was > > solved by promulgating TDR for the entire Mumbai Metropolitan Region > > with an estimated population of 21 million (17 million in 2001, 2011 > > census results are not yet out). It was an innovative solution first > > issued by local State Government in 1991 and now copied by other metros > > of India. Even US is having such rules in some cities with heavy rail. > > Vietnam has a technical collaboration agreement with India, since it was > > was united and IR has participated in some of their projects for > > Railways. > > Mumbai has a separate Joint sector Corporation Mumbai Rail Vikas > > Corporation undertaking Railway component of Mumbai Urban Transport > > Projects Jointly funder by IBRD, Indian Government (through IR) and > > Maharashtra Government. > > They are available at www.mrvc.indianrail.gov.in Sanctioned projects > > under execution are about 2 billion dollars. > > > > Members of the group needing additional information on Indian high > > capacity public transport systems can contact me and I will try my best > > to get it from original sources. IR uses wide bodied coaches 3667 mm and > > Dual traction system 1500 V. D.C. (under replacement) and 25 kV single > > phase 50 Hz system in Mumbai and other metropolitan areas. However Hanoi > > project as per data on the site quoted in the letter, mentions Chinese > > Government's aid for the project. > > > > Ho Chi Minh city in Vietnam has recently got Japanese aid for a Metro > > Rail System Project (Financed by the Japan Special Fund) under ADB aegis > > www.adb.org/projects/project.asp?id=39500. > > > > With regards. > > > > K. P. Padiyar > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "AD" > > Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 5:56 PM > > To: > > Subject: [sustran] First urban railway route in Hanoi under construction > > > > > Source: > > > http://english.vietnamnet.vn/social/201009/First-urban-railway-route-i > > > n-Hanoi-under-construction-937891/ > > > > > > > > > Looking forward to see the fare and wonder how could they make it more > > > > > tempted than that of riding a motorcycle for people. > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > > > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > > > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the > > real > > > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > > > > > ================================================================ > > > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > > > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing > > countries > > > (the 'Global South'). > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > > > ================================================================ > > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > > (the 'Global South'). > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > > > ================================================================ > > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > > equitable > > and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the > 'Global > > South'). > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > > > ================================================================ > > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > > (the 'Global South'). > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- *?..each million we invest into urban motorways is an investment to destroy the city?* Mayor Hans Joachim Vogel Munich 1970 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Sujit Patwardhan patwardhan.sujit@gmail.com sujitjp@gmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yamuna, ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007, India Tel: +91 20 25537955 Cell: +91 98220 26627 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Parisar: www.parisar.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From patwardhan.sujit at gmail.com Sat Oct 2 23:55:04 2010 From: patwardhan.sujit at gmail.com (Sujit Patwardhan) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 20:25:04 +0530 Subject: [sustran] New Report: Inclusive Design in Bus Rapid Transit Message-ID: 2 October 2010 Mahatma Gandhi's Birthday *The World Bank recently published a report, ?Technical and Operational Challenges to Inclusive Bus Rapid Transit,? compiled by Tom Rickert, a consultant with extensive experience on accessible transportation. While the technical report is intended primarily for an audience of BRT system and service planners, its release marks a recognition of the practical challenges in making public transport in the developing world fully accessible. * *Read the full article here:* ** http://thecityfix.com/developing-inclusive-design-in-bus-rapid-transit-a-new-world-bank-report/ This has a lot of useful stuff. -- Sujit -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- *?..each million we invest into urban motorways is an investment to destroy the city?* Mayor Hans Joachim Vogel Munich 1970 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Sujit Patwardhan patwardhan.sujit@gmail.com sujitjp@gmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yamuna, ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007, India Tel: +91 20 25537955 Cell: +91 98220 26627 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Parisar: www.parisar.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From patwardhan.sujit at gmail.com Sun Oct 3 01:26:14 2010 From: patwardhan.sujit at gmail.com (Sujit Patwardhan) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 21:56:14 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Mobility, not metro Message-ID: 2 October 2010 Mahatma Gandhi's Birthday http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/mobility-not-metro/409876/ *Mobility, not metro* *Himanshu Burte / New Delhi October 2, 2010, 0:07 IST* The Metro may not be best answer to our urban traffic woes Mobility is essential to city life. So how can we make getting around easier, better and more convenient for our cities? What are the options, and what are their costs and impacts? How equitable is each? And finally, how sustainable is each option, in terms of economics, public health and the environment? The answers to such questions offer a rational counterpoint to the metro mantra being chanted by city after Indian city, and now rising to a crescendo. A sensible infrastructure solution is one that solves the problems (and does not create new ones), costs the least, benefits the largest number of people, does the least environmental and social damage, is reversible, and has the flexibility to adjust to changing needs in the future. Of course, no solution is perfect. There are always trade-offs. But how do we weigh those trade-offs? First we must thoroughly understand the problem and its context. Then we must decide on the criteria by which we judge how well the solution ? in this case, a metro system ? actually meets all the various requirements. Here below are some points to address. ** * * *Non-motorised transport* Non-motorised transportation deserves closer attention. Geetam Tiwari of the Transport Research and Injury Prevention Programme at IIT Delhi has estimated that, at peak hour, 30-70 per cent of all trips in our big cities are by foot or bicycle. (Related fact: most trips in Indian cities are also under 5 km, which is bicycling distance.) People making these trips are ?captive users? ? they cannot afford even subsidised public transport and are forced to walk or cycle. Therefore, a sustainable transportation policy would start by making mobility easier and safer for pedestrians and bicyclists (who together have the largest share of fatalities in road accidents). Interestingly, this would benefit all road users. Those who use motorised transport, whether personal car, suburban train or city bus, also need to walk. Encouraging walking and bicycling through design and policy makes ecological and social sense. Both have almost zero energy costs and emissions, result in very little pollution, and boost public health. And, in case you hadn?t already guessed, catering to pedestrians and cyclists will make our cities more beautiful. * * * * *Bus kya?* Buses are perhaps the only public transport system already at work in most Indian cities. This is not surprising, since buses require much smaller investments. They are also more flexible in answering demand, and can reach every corner of a city. The metro is a First World concept. But the bus rapid transit system (BRTS) is a concept innovated in a Third World city ? Curitiba in Brazil, where it has worked well. The essential BRTS idea is dedicated bus lanes to which other vehicles have no or limited access. Ahmedabad has a ?closed? BRTS which has proved to be a success. Planning on Ahmedabad?s system began in 2005, and operations started in October 2009. The system is estimated to cost ' 1,000 crore for the full 88 km. So far it has reached 35 km, with no cost overruns. Today 85,000-90,000 passengers a day use its 41 buses, says Shivanand Swamy of the Centre for Environmental Planning and Technology, Ahmedabad, who helped design the system. ?BRTS is pertinent for India,? says Vidyadhar Phatak, a former chief planner of the Mumbai Metropolitan Regional Development Authority, ?but you cannot do it half-heartedly. There is always going to be a conflict between different conditions in the case of BRTS, but it can be addressed to arrive at the best resolution.? Phatak adds that car users in Indian cities with BRTS believe that buses are taking over their roadspace. When there is no bus in the bus lane, car drivers feel that roadspace is being wasted. They don?t recognise that a single bus carries as many people as a jamful of cars. ?Unfortunately, in India people who benefit from a system like BRTS rarely raise their voice in its favour,? he says. * * * * *Clear the road* The chief attraction of a metro is that it is disengaged from the chaotic road situation. ?Metro projects are often promoted by saying that the roads are so congested, we have to go over or underground to get fast public transport,? says Sujit Patwardhan of Parisar, a Pune NGO fighting for sensible urban policies. ?But this makes no sense. If there is a problem on the road, solve it, don?t run away from it. People don?t cause congestion on roads, cars do.? Patwardhan?s argument forces us to consider an awkward possibility: that even after the huge expense on metros we might still be left with congested roads. After all, convincing evidence that car users will switch to the metro is thin (see box). Unless, that is, we solve the road problem by curbing cars, since it is cars that eat up scarce public space on roads. If we can do that, we might even find that we never did need the metro! * * * * *Metros and urban form* It is well known that a metro is many times more expensive than other public transit options. Its other costs are not so widely known, including damage to urban form and public space. Urban form is no elite concern. It matters more to the poor pedestrian than to the rich in their cars. Our sense of comfort in a city depends on its legibility. Can we make sense of our street networks, orient ourselves, remember places we are walking through? Do we feel psychologically comfortable in a space? In Mumbai, for instance, flyovers built in the late 1990s have chopped up each of a wonderful sequence of garden roundabouts. Chopped up, these spaces fail to register fully. The flyovers have mangled our experience of moving through. The looming concrete masses of the elevated sections of metro lines will do the same in many parts of cities like Mumbai. Remember, most metro lines in cities outside Delhi are going to be elevated. *What is wrong with the metro idea?* In a report titled ?Mythologies, Metros & Future Urban Transport?, Dinesh Mohan of IIT Delhi reviews the national and international literature on the question of which public transport system is appropriate for Indian cities, and arrives at a critique of the metro. Here is a summary of his arguments. *#* Metros do not carry the largest percentage of all trips in any city in the world. The largest shares are in cities that got public transport systems in the first half of the 20th century, when other options were not available. In such cities, like London, New York and Paris, the metro does not absorb more than 20 per cent of all trips. Tokyo and Hong Kong are exceptions. In Tokyo, 40 per cent of trips are on the metro; but car ownership is discouraged by limited parking and roadspace. *#* Metros only work well in cities that have large concentrations of jobs in central business districts. London, Paris and New York meet this condition. Indian cities, which generally have a polynucleated character and no single business district, do not. *#* A large population does not guarantee ridership. Shanghai compares with Mexico City but has just half the latter?s ridership. The Delhi Metro Rail Corporation claims that any city with over 3 million people needs a metro. Density and the nature of spread of a city are, however, as relevant as the population. *#* It is not easy to wean car users away from their cars. It is difficult to beat the door-to-door travel time of a car, if you include time taken to reach the metro station, walk in the station and wait for a train. *#* A study of 210 transport infrastructure projects worldwide has shown that costs are significantly underestimated and benefits exaggerated. (This is generally true of big-ticket projects, because they benefit the officials who commission them as well as the consultants and contractors who execute them.) We can take consolation from this: we are not alone in our misery. *#* A properly designed BRTS does better on many criteria than any rail-based system. *The full report is available at www.iitd.ac.in/tripp* *Whom should we emulate?* For models, let us look to America. No, not that America. In Curitiba, a small city in the South American nation of Brazil, was developed a BRT system that provided multiple benefits. Along with greater access and economy, and lower environmental impact, came a better quality of public space. Bogota, the capital of Colombia, has a BRTS as well as the longest pedestrian avenue in the world ? 18 km long. Quito, capital of Ecuador, also has a successful bus transit system. * * -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- *Cities need mobility, not cars. *-------------------------------------------------------------------- * **?..each million we invest into urban motorways is an investment to destroy the city?* Mayor Hans Joachim Vogel Munich 1970 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Sujit Patwardhan patwardhan.sujit@gmail.com sujit@parisar.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yamuna, ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007, India Tel: +91 20 25537955 Cell: +91 98220 26627 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Parisar: www.parisar.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Mon Oct 4 15:20:29 2010 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric britton) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 08:20:29 +0200 Subject: [sustran] World Streets : Weekly digest for 4 October 2010 Message-ID: <008201cb638c$4a602fa0$df208ee0$@britton@ecoplan.org> Sharing: Humankind's oldest technology is ready for a comeback Eric Britton, editor | 30 September 2010 at 21:08 | Categories: bikeshare , carshare , philosophy , rideshare , shared space, sharing | URL: http://wp.me/psKUY-10z Long before automobiles and even science humankind discovered sharing tools, housing, roads, and wharfs, a natural way to reduce scarce labour and materials. And long before Adam Smith, we used the "profit" from such sharing to develop specialized skills and knowledge, both of which required sharing, and to build shared infrastructure. Now that we face [...] Read more of this post Add a comment to this post Parks vs. Parking: What do Indian cities need? Eric Britton, editor | 30 September 2010 at 12:53 | Categories: India , public space , sharing , social space , street | URL: http://wp.me/psKUY-10K Chennai had prepared a plan some years ago for a multi-storey parking deck in T. Nagar where the Panagal Park now stands. T Nagar, once a quiet residential neighbourhood, is now the shopping centre for all of Chennai and has tremendous levels of congestion. The parking plan was called off due to protests by walkers [...] Read more of this post Add a comment to this post Energy and Equity, Ivan Illich. Eric Britton, editor | 29 September 2010 at 08:58 | Categories: bike bicycle , energy , equity , philosophy , public space, vision | URL: http://wp.me/psKUY-10e Earlier this week I proposed the idea of a group read and commentary on Illich's incisive and important 1974 book "Energy and Equity", but as I thrashed through my personal library I was unable to lay my hands on what I remember as a small book with a yellow cover. Luckily Jane Voodikon, a Jason [...] Read more of this post Add a comment to this post On the road with one of Cairo's first female taxi drivers Eric Britton, editor | 28 September 2010 at 10:22 | Categories: media , pattern change, taxi , women | URL: http://wp.me/psKUY-101 We cannot of course be sure if you are following all of our web of key themes that together create the bedrock of World Streets, but two of these that are most important to us are (a) the importance of "pattern change" and, of course our old friends will say, (b) the role of women [...] Read more of this post Add a comment to this post Sharing: Strategy for a Small Planet Eric Britton, editor | 27 September 2010 at 11:23 | Categories: China , Kaohsiung , conflict resolution, sharing , social space | URL: http://wp.me/psKUY-ZG - Keynote address by Eric Britton, Co-Chair of the World Share/Transport Forum, to the first international Share/Transport Conference. Kaohsiung. 16 Sept. 2010 I appreciate this opportunity to share with this distinguished international audience by way of introduction to the presentations and discussions that will now follow a few words on why I think that the [...] Read more of this post Add a comment to this post From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Mon Oct 4 17:03:29 2010 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric britton) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 10:03:29 +0200 Subject: [sustran] [Sustran] World Streets : Weekly digest for 4 October 2010 In-Reply-To: <507324.74617.qm@web39504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <507324.74617.qm@web39504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003701cb639a$a59c52f0$f0d4f8d0$@britton@ecoplan.org> Dear Sustran friends and Colleagues, Please accept my apologies for transmitting to you these I thought very useful summaries of World Streets postings, which Jane Voodikon has kindly pointed out to me this morning turn up like the trash heap behind our village. Now I really think those summaries are efficient means of keeping you up to date on our collaborative work, but certainly not in the form I shall try to find a better way to handle it, but if you wish to receive the weekly summaries in clean form, may I suggest that you go to www.WorldStreets.org, click the "To subscribe" gizmo in the top left column, and then at one point you will see where you have the choice of daily or weekly feedback, and make your preferred choice. Again apologies for not getting to this earlier. That said, we are told that our new format is a great improvement. And I hope that you agree. Kind regards, Eric Britton Eric Britton | WorldStreets.org | NewMobility.org | Skype: newmobility 8, rue Jospeh Bara | Paris 75006 France | +331 7550 3788 From cornie.huizenga at slocatpartnership.org Mon Oct 4 17:59:47 2010 From: cornie.huizenga at slocatpartnership.org (Cornie Huizenga) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 16:59:47 +0800 Subject: [sustran] Indian metros the 90-10 rule revisited Message-ID: Dear Sujit, Thanks for sharing this. This discussion reminds me of an earlier discussion on urban transport in India. It was the urban development minister who mentioned that 90% of he road space was allocated to 10% of the users. I think that there is an imminent danger that 90% of the funds for urban public transport will be spent on metros who will not take up more than 10% of the trips :-) The ongoing debate on metros will shape urban transport and the Indian cities to a great extent. Good luck! Cornie On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 8:36 PM, Sujit Patwardhan wrote: > 1 October 2010 > > > > Dear Adhiraj, > This makes imminent sense to me, but for common citizens the attraction for > Metro grows with each passing day............. > As strong advocates of Public Transport we want to be fair in judging the > metro and not damn it out of hand but so far the case for a Metro seems > unconvincing. We had organized a National Round Table Meeting on Metro Rail > in Pune on 21st ans 22nd July. > The Report from that programme is down-loadable from the Parisar website. > Here is the link: > http://www.parisar.org/activities/events/122-the-city-and-the-metro.html > We will apprecaite your comments and suggestions. > Many thanks > -- > Sujit > > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 5:51 PM, Dr Adhiraj Joglekar < > adhiraj.joglekar@googlemail.com> wrote: > > > The only alternative available...... in medicine (being a doctor) there > is > > a > > dictum, you only need one exception to the rule to disprove a dogmatic > > belief / theory. > > > > London tubes do 3.5 million passenger trips per day, London buses carry > > double this number. And its a traditional bus service with handful of bus > > lanes. > > > > Same is true with Mumbai buses considering they do not cover the length > of > > tracks beyond corporation limits as the trains do. BEST does 4.5 million > > trips a day in a geographically smaller area. Considering that in Mumbai > > population has shot to 20 million (against London's 8m) they have half > the > > number of buses than in London and no bus lanes. Those keen may look up > > Chennai buses and their numbers. Bangalore also has a bus service > managing > > 3m trips a day. > > > > In Mumbai 60 odd flyovers (which are no use to buses) have made life a > hell > > by trying to make way for more cars. Mumbai actually has the sea link as > > its > > best TDM example, the sea link will come to a halt if its use was FREE. > > > > The bottom line is to free up our roads and use buses - they offer a door > > to > > door service as against trains and even BRT which need dedicated > corridors > > - > > it takes me 20 minutes walking to get to stations (it takes 8 minutes on > > average to walk 500 meters) for my daily commute in London by train while > > bus stops are just outside on main street. Even after changing buses and > > respecting 3 dozen signals on road, the bus on average is only 10 minutes > > more. Halve the cars and the bus would beat the train!! > > > > Further, our city planners and slum redevelopment authorities want to > place > > half a million daily wage earners who live and work in their shanties of > > Dharavi producing $1 billion worth of turnover every year in to communist > > style matchbox flats in vertical estates (which ironically are being > > demolished in UK in some places). This would free up land for luxury > flats > > for the neo rich and double population of Dharavi. More crucially > > businesses > > may relocate and suddenly what was a sustainable model (bus for the lack > of > > sanitation) changes to people being forced to commute on so called > elevated > > metro trains. > > > > Cheers. > > > > AJ > > > > > > > > > > On 1 October 2010 03:43, AD wrote: > > > > > Dear Mr. Padiyar, > > > > > > You wrote "According to global standards for rail based public > > > transport, this is the only alternative available for meeting the > demand > > > - Tokyo, Hong Kong...".I thought some BRT systems if planned properly > can > > > technically get the same capacity as rail-based public transport. > > > > > > For me, which technology (subway, light rail, BRT) is used is not that > > > important > > > because they are all mass transit. What government in a developing > > country > > > should concern is how to use as less as possible money on mass transit > > > option > > > (of course with the same capacity) so that the extra money can be used > to > > > invest > > > in improving pedestrian condition, which actually is the underlying > > > prerequisite > > > for any bus/rail trip. > > > > > > > > > And also, as mentioned by Lee Schipper, any of these mass transit has > to > > > compete > > > with motorcycles (or in other words - convenience). Therefore by taking > > the > > > existing road space for its busways, BRT does the job better than its > > > counterparts: subway or elevated rail. > > > > > > With best regards, > > > > > > AD. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Lee Schipper > > > To: K P Padiyar ; > sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org > > > Sent: Thu, September 30, 2010 12:52:02 AM > > > Subject: [sustran] Re: First urban railway route in Hanoi under > > > construction > > > > > > I think it is worth mentioning that Hanoi has at least twice the > > > ownership rate of two-wheelers of any city in India, more than 1 two > > > wheeler per household. That means that any urban rail way or BRT (one > of > > > each is under development) has to compete with one of the most > motorized > > > populations in the entire world. Here is a bit of background from my > > > EMBARQ days. > > > http://www.embarq.org/en/our-work/publications/hanoi-vietnam > > > Commuting distances are relatively short, one reason why the > > > conventional bus system started 10 years ago and two wheelers are so > > > popular, not to mention conventional bicycles and even more > conventional > > > feet. There is a master plan for developing more distant suburbs where > > > an urban rail network could be useful, but that may depend on how the > > > authorities deal with the cost of two wheeler fuel and whether there is > > > a sensible way of charging for increasingly crowded road space in the > > > main parts of Hanoi. > > > > > > > > > Lee Schipper, Ph.D. > > > Project Scientist, Global Metropolitan Studies, UC Berkeley > > > Senior Research Engineer, Precourt Energy Efficiency Center, Stanford > > > Univ. > > > phone +1 510 642 6889 > > > fax +1 510 642 6061 > > > cell for emergencies +1 202 262 7476 > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org@list.jca.apc.org > > > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper > > > > > > =wri.org@list.jca.apc.org] On > > > Behalf Of K P Padiyar > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 10:44 AM > > > To: sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org > > > Subject: [sustran] Re: First urban railway route in Hanoi under > > > construction > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > Even though I have subscribed to this group since 2005, I have not > > > participated in their discussions so far. With my background of more > > > than 16 years of my service life in operating maintaining, planning and > > > designing suburban rail services of Indian Railways in Mumbai which > > > today carries nearly 7 million passengers daily on 5 HRT corridors of > > > which two carry main line passenger and freight traffic also. Design > > > capacity of these corridors is 1.2 million for dedicated corridors and > > > half that for mainline corridors, I felt emboldened to muscle in on the > > > august array of transport specialists on this issue. > > > > > > According to Demografia 2008, Hanoi is the second largest city of > > > Vietnam with a population of 3 million with average population density > > > of 154.5 persons/ha. According to global standards for rail based > public > > > transport, this is the only alternative available for meeting the > demand > > > - Tokyo, Hong Kong. Mumbai Moscow. (Dr. Kenworthy's work for UITP and > WB > > > in 1990s.). Hanoi is planning for a capacity of 28000 pphpd which > works > > > out as 467 000 trips/day which is low compared to likely demand with > CBD > > > densities (Job + > > > population) exceeding 300 as in Mumbai where Mumbai Island has a > density > > > of 800/ha. > > > > > > Mumbai also had difficulties in acquiring land for Railways which was > > > solved by promulgating TDR for the entire Mumbai Metropolitan Region > > > with an estimated population of 21 million (17 million in 2001, 2011 > > > census results are not yet out). It was an innovative solution first > > > issued by local State Government in 1991 and now copied by other metros > > > of India. Even US is having such rules in some cities with heavy rail. > > > Vietnam has a technical collaboration agreement with India, since it > was > > > was united and IR has participated in some of their projects for > > > Railways. > > > Mumbai has a separate Joint sector Corporation Mumbai Rail Vikas > > > Corporation undertaking Railway component of Mumbai Urban Transport > > > Projects Jointly funder by IBRD, Indian Government (through IR) and > > > Maharashtra Government. > > > They are available at www.mrvc.indianrail.gov.in Sanctioned > projects > > > under execution are about 2 billion dollars. > > > > > > Members of the group needing additional information on Indian high > > > capacity public transport systems can contact me and I will try my > best > > > to get it from original sources. IR uses wide bodied coaches 3667 mm > and > > > Dual traction system 1500 V. D.C. (under replacement) and 25 kV single > > > phase 50 Hz system in Mumbai and other metropolitan areas. However > Hanoi > > > project as per data on the site quoted in the letter, mentions Chinese > > > Government's aid for the project. > > > > > > Ho Chi Minh city in Vietnam has recently got Japanese aid for a Metro > > > Rail System Project (Financed by the Japan Special Fund) under ADB > aegis > > > www.adb.org/projects/project.asp?id=39500. > > > > > > With regards. > > > > > > K. P. Padiyar > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > From: "AD" > > > Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 5:56 PM > > > To: > > > Subject: [sustran] First urban railway route in Hanoi under > construction > > > > > > > Source: > > > > > http://english.vietnamnet.vn/social/201009/First-urban-railway-route-i > > > > n-Hanoi-under-construction-937891/ > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking forward to see the fare and wonder how could they make it > more > > > > > > > tempted than that of riding a motorcycle for people. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > > > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > > > > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > > > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > > > > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the > > > real > > > > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > > > > > > > ================================================================ > > > > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > > > > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing > > > countries > > > > (the 'Global South'). > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > > > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > > > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the > real > > > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > > > > > ================================================================ > > > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > > > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing > countries > > > (the 'Global South'). > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > > > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > > > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the > real > > > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > > > > > ================================================================ > > > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > > > equitable > > > and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the > > 'Global > > > South'). > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > > > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > > > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the > real > > > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > > > > > ================================================================ > > > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > > > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing > countries > > > (the 'Global South'). > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > > > ================================================================ > > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > > (the 'Global South'). > > > > > > -- > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > *?..each million we invest into urban motorways is an investment > to destroy the city?* > > Mayor Hans Joachim Vogel > Munich 1970 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Sujit Patwardhan > patwardhan.sujit@gmail.com > sujitjp@gmail.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yamuna, ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007, India > Tel: +91 20 25537955 > Cell: +91 98220 26627 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Parisar: www.parisar.org > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > -- Cornie Huizenga Joint Convener Partnership on Sustainable, Low Carbon Transport Mobile: +86 13901949332 cornie.huizenga@slocatpartnership.org www.slocat.net From bruun at seas.upenn.edu Tue Oct 5 02:26:38 2010 From: bruun at seas.upenn.edu (bruun at seas.upenn.edu) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2010 13:26:38 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian metros the 90-10 rule revisited In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20101004132638.183872tl3ijl1kcu@webmail.seas.upenn.edu> Sujit Why does there have to be only one high capacity mode for a given city? The best systems in the world have several modes. Do airlines use only one sized airplane? Do freight companies only use one size truck and only drive on one type of road? Also, this argument that building BRT on roads would be cheaper is, of course, true. But this isn't the issue. The first issue is that it often takes many years to get control of the roads. How much of the BRT system in Delhi got built while the Metro was under construction? The second issue is that the speed isn't as high for at grade BRT that must cross intersections (ROW B under Prof. Vuchic's terminology.) Speed actually is important for megacities -- the Metro and regional rail attract long trips, while BRT would get medium distance trips. This speed can both help to promote or control sprawl depending upon other development policies. So metros can positively influence urban form. The third is that Metros can indeed support poly-nucleated cities not just traditional large CBDs. Have a look at Stockholm region. As I've said before, even though metros cost more to build, they are still needed in very large cities due to the physical reality of long distances. This reality doesn't change just because a country is richer or poorer. Eric Bruun Quoting Cornie Huizenga : > Dear Sujit, > > Thanks for sharing this. This discussion reminds me of an earlier > discussion on urban transport in India. It was the urban development > minister who mentioned that 90% of he road space was allocated to 10% of the > users. > > I think that there is an imminent danger that 90% of the funds for urban > public transport will be spent on metros who will not take up more than 10% > of the trips :-) > > The ongoing debate on metros will shape urban transport and the Indian > cities to a great extent. Good luck! > > Cornie > > On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 8:36 PM, Sujit Patwardhan > wrote: > >> 1 October 2010 >> >> >> >> Dear Adhiraj, >> This makes imminent sense to me, but for common citizens the attraction for >> Metro grows with each passing day............. >> As strong advocates of Public Transport we want to be fair in judging the >> metro and not damn it out of hand but so far the case for a Metro seems >> unconvincing. We had organized a National Round Table Meeting on Metro Rail >> in Pune on 21st ans 22nd July. >> The Report from that programme is down-loadable from the Parisar website. >> Here is the link: >> http://www.parisar.org/activities/events/122-the-city-and-the-metro.html >> We will apprecaite your comments and suggestions. >> Many thanks >> -- >> Sujit >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 5:51 PM, Dr Adhiraj Joglekar < >> adhiraj.joglekar@googlemail.com> wrote: >> >> > The only alternative available...... in medicine (being a doctor) there >> is >> > a >> > dictum, you only need one exception to the rule to disprove a dogmatic >> > belief / theory. >> > >> > London tubes do 3.5 million passenger trips per day, London buses carry >> > double this number. And its a traditional bus service with handful of bus >> > lanes. >> > >> > Same is true with Mumbai buses considering they do not cover the length >> of >> > tracks beyond corporation limits as the trains do. BEST does 4.5 million >> > trips a day in a geographically smaller area. Considering that in Mumbai >> > population has shot to 20 million (against London's 8m) they have half >> the >> > number of buses than in London and no bus lanes. Those keen may look up >> > Chennai buses and their numbers. Bangalore also has a bus service >> managing >> > 3m trips a day. >> > >> > In Mumbai 60 odd flyovers (which are no use to buses) have made life a >> hell >> > by trying to make way for more cars. Mumbai actually has the sea link as >> > its >> > best TDM example, the sea link will come to a halt if its use was FREE. >> > >> > The bottom line is to free up our roads and use buses - they offer a door >> > to >> > door service as against trains and even BRT which need dedicated >> corridors >> > - >> > it takes me 20 minutes walking to get to stations (it takes 8 minutes on >> > average to walk 500 meters) for my daily commute in London by train while >> > bus stops are just outside on main street. Even after changing buses and >> > respecting 3 dozen signals on road, the bus on average is only 10 minutes >> > more. Halve the cars and the bus would beat the train!! >> > >> > Further, our city planners and slum redevelopment authorities want to >> place >> > half a million daily wage earners who live and work in their shanties of >> > Dharavi producing $1 billion worth of turnover every year in to communist >> > style matchbox flats in vertical estates (which ironically are being >> > demolished in UK in some places). This would free up land for luxury >> flats >> > for the neo rich and double population of Dharavi. More crucially >> > businesses >> > may relocate and suddenly what was a sustainable model (bus for the lack >> of >> > sanitation) changes to people being forced to commute on so called >> elevated >> > metro trains. >> > >> > Cheers. >> > >> > AJ >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On 1 October 2010 03:43, AD wrote: >> > >> > > Dear Mr. Padiyar, >> > > >> > > You wrote "According to global standards for rail based public >> > > transport, this is the only alternative available for meeting the >> demand >> > > - Tokyo, Hong Kong...".I thought some BRT systems if planned properly >> can >> > > technically get the same capacity as rail-based public transport. >> > > >> > > For me, which technology (subway, light rail, BRT) is used is not that >> > > important >> > > because they are all mass transit. What government in a developing >> > country >> > > should concern is how to use as less as possible money on mass transit >> > > option >> > > (of course with the same capacity) so that the extra money can be used >> to >> > > invest >> > > in improving pedestrian condition, which actually is the underlying >> > > prerequisite >> > > for any bus/rail trip. >> > > >> > > >> > > And also, as mentioned by Lee Schipper, any of these mass transit has >> to >> > > compete >> > > with motorcycles (or in other words - convenience). Therefore by taking >> > the >> > > existing road space for its busways, BRT does the job better than its >> > > counterparts: subway or elevated rail. >> > > >> > > With best regards, >> > > >> > > AD. >> > > >> > > >> > > ________________________________ >> > > From: Lee Schipper >> > > To: K P Padiyar ; >> sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org >> > > Sent: Thu, September 30, 2010 12:52:02 AM >> > > Subject: [sustran] Re: First urban railway route in Hanoi under >> > > construction >> > > >> > > I think it is worth mentioning that Hanoi has at least twice the >> > > ownership rate of two-wheelers of any city in India, more than 1 two >> > > wheeler per household. That means that any urban rail way or BRT (one >> of >> > > each is under development) has to compete with one of the most >> motorized >> > > populations in the entire world. Here is a bit of background from my >> > > EMBARQ days. >> > > http://www.embarq.org/en/our-work/publications/hanoi-vietnam >> > > Commuting distances are relatively short, one reason why the >> > > conventional bus system started 10 years ago and two wheelers are so >> > > popular, not to mention conventional bicycles and even more >> conventional >> > > feet. There is a master plan for developing more distant suburbs where >> > > an urban rail network could be useful, but that may depend on how the >> > > authorities deal with the cost of two wheeler fuel and whether there is >> > > a sensible way of charging for increasingly crowded road space in the >> > > main parts of Hanoi. >> > > >> > > >> > > Lee Schipper, Ph.D. >> > > Project Scientist, Global Metropolitan Studies, UC Berkeley >> > > Senior Research Engineer, Precourt Energy Efficiency Center, Stanford >> > > Univ. >> > > phone +1 510 642 6889 >> > > fax +1 510 642 6061 >> > > cell for emergencies +1 202 262 7476 >> > > >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org@list.jca.apc.org >> > > >> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper >> >> > >> > > =wri.org@list.jca.apc.org] On >> > > Behalf Of K P Padiyar >> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 10:44 AM >> > > To: sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org >> > > Subject: [sustran] Re: First urban railway route in Hanoi under >> > > construction >> > > >> > > Dear All, >> > > >> > > Even though I have subscribed to this group since 2005, I have not >> > > participated in their discussions so far. With my background of more >> > > than 16 years of my service life in operating maintaining, planning and >> > > designing suburban rail services of Indian Railways in Mumbai which >> > > today carries nearly 7 million passengers daily on 5 HRT corridors of >> > > which two carry main line passenger and freight traffic also. Design >> > > capacity of these corridors is 1.2 million for dedicated corridors and >> > > half that for mainline corridors, I felt emboldened to muscle in on the >> > > august array of transport specialists on this issue. >> > > >> > > According to Demografia 2008, Hanoi is the second largest city of >> > > Vietnam with a population of 3 million with average population density >> > > of 154.5 persons/ha. According to global standards for rail based >> public >> > > transport, this is the only alternative available for meeting the >> demand >> > > - Tokyo, Hong Kong. Mumbai Moscow. (Dr. Kenworthy's work for UITP and >> WB >> > > in 1990s.). Hanoi is planning for a capacity of 28000 pphpd which >> works >> > > out as 467 000 trips/day which is low compared to likely demand with >> CBD >> > > densities (Job + >> > > population) exceeding 300 as in Mumbai where Mumbai Island has a >> density >> > > of 800/ha. >> > > >> > > Mumbai also had difficulties in acquiring land for Railways which was >> > > solved by promulgating TDR for the entire Mumbai Metropolitan Region >> > > with an estimated population of 21 million (17 million in 2001, 2011 >> > > census results are not yet out). It was an innovative solution first >> > > issued by local State Government in 1991 and now copied by other metros >> > > of India. Even US is having such rules in some cities with heavy rail. >> > > Vietnam has a technical collaboration agreement with India, since it >> was >> > > was united and IR has participated in some of their projects for >> > > Railways. >> > > Mumbai has a separate Joint sector Corporation Mumbai Rail Vikas >> > > Corporation undertaking Railway component of Mumbai Urban Transport >> > > Projects Jointly funder by IBRD, Indian Government (through IR) and >> > > Maharashtra Government. >> > > They are available at www.mrvc.indianrail.gov.in Sanctioned >> projects >> > > under execution are about 2 billion dollars. >> > > >> > > Members of the group needing additional information on Indian high >> > > capacity public transport systems can contact me and I will try my >> best >> > > to get it from original sources. IR uses wide bodied coaches 3667 mm >> and >> > > Dual traction system 1500 V. D.C. (under replacement) and 25 kV single >> > > phase 50 Hz system in Mumbai and other metropolitan areas. However >> Hanoi >> > > project as per data on the site quoted in the letter, mentions Chinese >> > > Government's aid for the project. >> > > >> > > Ho Chi Minh city in Vietnam has recently got Japanese aid for a Metro >> > > Rail System Project (Financed by the Japan Special Fund) under ADB >> aegis >> > > www.adb.org/projects/project.asp?id=39500. >> > > >> > > With regards. >> > > >> > > K. P. Padiyar >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > -------------------------------------------------- >> > > From: "AD" >> > > Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 5:56 PM >> > > To: >> > > Subject: [sustran] First urban railway route in Hanoi under >> construction >> > > >> > > > Source: >> > > > >> http://english.vietnamnet.vn/social/201009/First-urban-railway-route-i >> > > > n-Hanoi-under-construction-937891/ >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Looking forward to see the fare and wonder how could they make it >> more >> > > >> > > > tempted than that of riding a motorcycle for people. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > -------------------------------------------------------- >> > > > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >> > > > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >> > > > >> > > > -------------------------------------------------------- >> > > > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >> > > > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the >> > > real >> > > > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >> > > > >> > > > ================================================================ >> > > > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> > > > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing >> > > countries >> > > > (the 'Global South'). >> > > > >> > > -------------------------------------------------------- >> > > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >> > > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >> > > >> > > -------------------------------------------------------- >> > > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >> > > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the >> real >> > > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >> > > >> > > ================================================================ >> > > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> > > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing >> countries >> > > (the 'Global South'). >> > > -------------------------------------------------------- >> > > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >> > > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >> > > >> > > -------------------------------------------------------- >> > > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >> > > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the >> real >> > > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >> > > >> > > ================================================================ >> > > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> > > equitable >> > > and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the >> > 'Global >> > > South'). >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > -------------------------------------------------------- >> > > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >> > > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >> > > >> > > -------------------------------------------------------- >> > > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >> > > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the >> real >> > > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >> > > >> > > ================================================================ >> > > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> > > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing >> countries >> > > (the 'Global South'). >> > > >> > -------------------------------------------------------- >> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >> > >> > -------------------------------------------------------- >> > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >> > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real >> > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >> > >> > ================================================================ >> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries >> > (the 'Global South'). >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> *?..each million we invest into urban motorways is an investment >> to destroy the city?* >> >> Mayor Hans Joachim Vogel >> Munich 1970 >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Sujit Patwardhan >> patwardhan.sujit@gmail.com >> sujitjp@gmail.com >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Yamuna, ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007, India >> Tel: +91 20 25537955 >> Cell: +91 98220 26627 >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Parisar: www.parisar.org >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real >> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >> >> ================================================================ >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries >> (the 'Global South'). >> > > > > -- > Cornie Huizenga > Joint Convener > Partnership on Sustainable, Low Carbon Transport > Mobile: +86 13901949332 > cornie.huizenga@slocatpartnership.org > www.slocat.net > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the > real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing > countries (the 'Global South'). > > From patwardhan.sujit at gmail.com Tue Oct 5 04:01:59 2010 From: patwardhan.sujit at gmail.com (Sujit Patwardhan) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 00:31:59 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian metros the 90-10 rule revisited In-Reply-To: <20101004132638.183872tl3ijl1kcu@webmail.seas.upenn.edu> References: <20101004132638.183872tl3ijl1kcu@webmail.seas.upenn.edu> Message-ID: 4 October 2010 Dear Eric, We have been having these discussions internally for some time and are going to do an intensive brain-storming on under what conditions a Metro Rail would have a positive impact on cities that are not overflowing with cash. The reality with most cities in India (except Mumbai with a strong North South corridor carrying very high numbers) is that over 75% of journeys are shorter than 5 to 7 Kilometers. If we encourage or allow cities to grow fast, adequate number of longer journeys may make the Metro Rail the ideal mode but merely growth in city's population will not by itself justify a Metro. Another observation about Indian cities that are screaming for a Metro Rail is the sad but real possibility that the major portion of a city's or state's budget may get consumed by the cost of constructing and running the Metro, leading to neglect and decline of other cheaper and modes of transit, and this will hit the economically weaker sections of population the most. I can see that several different modes of transit can have a role to play but this needs to be established by data and analysis city by city. Today this is not happening. Metro is a toy everyone wants but no one is ready to pay the amount from their own pockets. Delhi has got its Metro and it is losing heavily. To make up the losses, Delhi Metro is being offered real estate incentives that may improve its bottom line but the price will be paid by the residents of Delhi including the poorest sections who live hand to mouth. -- Sujit On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 10:56 PM, wrote: > > Sujit > > Why does there have to be only one high capacity mode for a given > city? The best systems in the world > have several modes. Do airlines use only one sized airplane? Do > freight companies only use one size truck and only drive on one type > of road? > > Also, this argument that building BRT on roads would be cheaper is, of > course, true. But this isn't the issue. > The first issue is that it often takes many years to get control of > the roads. How much of the BRT system in Delhi got built while the > Metro was under construction? The second issue is that the speed isn't > as high for at grade BRT that must cross intersections (ROW B under > Prof. Vuchic's terminology.) Speed actually is important for > megacities -- the Metro and regional rail attract long trips, while > BRT would get medium distance trips. This speed can both help to > promote or control sprawl depending upon other development policies. > So metros can positively influence urban form. The third is that > Metros can indeed support poly-nucleated cities not just traditional > large CBDs. Have a look at Stockholm region. > > As I've said before, even though metros cost more to build, they are > still needed in very large cities due to the physical reality of long > distances. This reality doesn't change just because a country is > richer or poorer. > > Eric Bruun > > Quoting Cornie Huizenga : > > Dear Sujit, >> >> Thanks for sharing this. This discussion reminds me of an earlier >> discussion on urban transport in India. It was the urban development >> minister who mentioned that 90% of he road space was allocated to 10% of >> the >> users. >> >> I think that there is an imminent danger that 90% of the funds for urban >> public transport will be spent on metros who will not take up more than >> 10% >> of the trips :-) >> >> The ongoing debate on metros will shape urban transport and the Indian >> cities to a great extent. Good luck! >> >> Cornie >> >> On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 8:36 PM, Sujit Patwardhan < >> patwardhan.sujit@gmail.com >> >>> wrote: >>> >> >> 1 October 2010 >>> >>> >>> >>> Dear Adhiraj, >>> This makes imminent sense to me, but for common citizens the attraction >>> for >>> Metro grows with each passing day............. >>> As strong advocates of Public Transport we want to be fair in judging the >>> metro and not damn it out of hand but so far the case for a Metro seems >>> unconvincing. We had organized a National Round Table Meeting on Metro >>> Rail >>> in Pune on 21st ans 22nd July. >>> The Report from that programme is down-loadable from the Parisar website. >>> Here is the link: >>> http://www.parisar.org/activities/events/122-the-city-and-the-metro.html >>> We will apprecaite your comments and suggestions. >>> Many thanks >>> -- >>> Sujit >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 5:51 PM, Dr Adhiraj Joglekar < >>> adhiraj.joglekar@googlemail.com> wrote: >>> >>> > The only alternative available...... in medicine (being a doctor) there >>> is >>> > a >>> > dictum, you only need one exception to the rule to disprove a dogmatic >>> > belief / theory. >>> > >>> > London tubes do 3.5 million passenger trips per day, London buses carry >>> > double this number. And its a traditional bus service with handful of >>> bus >>> > lanes. >>> > >>> > Same is true with Mumbai buses considering they do not cover the length >>> of >>> > tracks beyond corporation limits as the trains do. BEST does 4.5 >>> million >>> > trips a day in a geographically smaller area. Considering that in >>> Mumbai >>> > population has shot to 20 million (against London's 8m) they have half >>> the >>> > number of buses than in London and no bus lanes. Those keen may look up >>> > Chennai buses and their numbers. Bangalore also has a bus service >>> managing >>> > 3m trips a day. >>> > >>> > In Mumbai 60 odd flyovers (which are no use to buses) have made life a >>> hell >>> > by trying to make way for more cars. Mumbai actually has the sea link >>> as >>> > its >>> > best TDM example, the sea link will come to a halt if its use was FREE. >>> > >>> > The bottom line is to free up our roads and use buses - they offer a >>> door >>> > to >>> > door service as against trains and even BRT which need dedicated >>> corridors >>> > - >>> > it takes me 20 minutes walking to get to stations (it takes 8 minutes >>> on >>> > average to walk 500 meters) for my daily commute in London by train >>> while >>> > bus stops are just outside on main street. Even after changing buses >>> and >>> > respecting 3 dozen signals on road, the bus on average is only 10 >>> minutes >>> > more. Halve the cars and the bus would beat the train!! >>> > >>> > Further, our city planners and slum redevelopment authorities want to >>> place >>> > half a million daily wage earners who live and work in their shanties >>> of >>> > Dharavi producing $1 billion worth of turnover every year in to >>> communist >>> > style matchbox flats in vertical estates (which ironically are being >>> > demolished in UK in some places). This would free up land for luxury >>> flats >>> > for the neo rich and double population of Dharavi. More crucially >>> > businesses >>> > may relocate and suddenly what was a sustainable model (bus for the >>> lack >>> of >>> > sanitation) changes to people being forced to commute on so called >>> elevated >>> > metro trains. >>> > >>> > Cheers. >>> > >>> > AJ >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > On 1 October 2010 03:43, AD wrote: >>> > >>> > > Dear Mr. Padiyar, >>> > > >>> > > You wrote "According to global standards for rail based public >>> > > transport, this is the only alternative available for meeting the >>> demand >>> > > - Tokyo, Hong Kong...".I thought some BRT systems if planned properly >>> can >>> > > technically get the same capacity as rail-based public transport. >>> > > >>> > > For me, which technology (subway, light rail, BRT) is used is not >>> that >>> > > important >>> > > because they are all mass transit. What government in a developing >>> > country >>> > > should concern is how to use as less as possible money on mass >>> transit >>> > > option >>> > > (of course with the same capacity) so that the extra money can be >>> used >>> to >>> > > invest >>> > > in improving pedestrian condition, which actually is the underlying >>> > > prerequisite >>> > > for any bus/rail trip. >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > And also, as mentioned by Lee Schipper, any of these mass transit has >>> to >>> > > compete >>> > > with motorcycles (or in other words - convenience). Therefore by >>> taking >>> > the >>> > > existing road space for its busways, BRT does the job better than its >>> > > counterparts: subway or elevated rail. >>> > > >>> > > With best regards, >>> > > >>> > > AD. >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > ________________________________ >>> > > From: Lee Schipper >>> > > To: K P Padiyar ; >>> sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org >>> > > Sent: Thu, September 30, 2010 12:52:02 AM >>> > > Subject: [sustran] Re: First urban railway route in Hanoi under >>> > > construction >>> > > >>> > > I think it is worth mentioning that Hanoi has at least twice the >>> > > ownership rate of two-wheelers of any city in India, more than 1 two >>> > > wheeler per household. That means that any urban rail way or BRT (one >>> of >>> > > each is under development) has to compete with one of the most >>> motorized >>> > > populations in the entire world. Here is a bit of background from my >>> > > EMBARQ days. >>> > > http://www.embarq.org/en/our-work/publications/hanoi-vietnam >>> > > Commuting distances are relatively short, one reason why the >>> > > conventional bus system started 10 years ago and two wheelers are so >>> > > popular, not to mention conventional bicycles and even more >>> conventional >>> > > feet. There is a master plan for developing more distant suburbs >>> where >>> > > an urban rail network could be useful, but that may depend on how the >>> > > authorities deal with the cost of two wheeler fuel and whether there >>> is >>> > > a sensible way of charging for increasingly crowded road space in the >>> > > main parts of Hanoi. >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > Lee Schipper, Ph.D. >>> > > Project Scientist, Global Metropolitan Studies, UC Berkeley >>> > > Senior Research Engineer, Precourt Energy Efficiency Center, Stanford >>> > > Univ. >>> > > phone +1 510 642 6889 >>> > > fax +1 510 642 6061 >>> > > cell for emergencies +1 202 262 7476 >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > -----Original Message----- >>> > > From: sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org@list.jca.apc.org >>> > > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper >>> >>> >>> > >>> > > =wri.org@list.jca.apc.org] On >>> > > Behalf Of K P Padiyar >>> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 10:44 AM >>> > > To: sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org >>> > > Subject: [sustran] Re: First urban railway route in Hanoi under >>> > > construction >>> > > >>> > > Dear All, >>> > > >>> > > Even though I have subscribed to this group since 2005, I have not >>> > > participated in their discussions so far. With my background of more >>> > > than 16 years of my service life in operating maintaining, planning >>> and >>> > > designing suburban rail services of Indian Railways in Mumbai which >>> > > today carries nearly 7 million passengers daily on 5 HRT corridors of >>> > > which two carry main line passenger and freight traffic also. Design >>> > > capacity of these corridors is 1.2 million for dedicated corridors >>> and >>> > > half that for mainline corridors, I felt emboldened to muscle in on >>> the >>> > > august array of transport specialists on this issue. >>> > > >>> > > According to Demografia 2008, Hanoi is the second largest city of >>> > > Vietnam with a population of 3 million with average population >>> density >>> > > of 154.5 persons/ha. According to global standards for rail based >>> public >>> > > transport, this is the only alternative available for meeting the >>> demand >>> > > - Tokyo, Hong Kong. Mumbai Moscow. (Dr. Kenworthy's work for UITP and >>> WB >>> > > in 1990s.). Hanoi is planning for a capacity of 28000 pphpd which >>> works >>> > > out as 467 000 trips/day which is low compared to likely demand with >>> CBD >>> > > densities (Job + >>> > > population) exceeding 300 as in Mumbai where Mumbai Island has a >>> density >>> > > of 800/ha. >>> > > >>> > > Mumbai also had difficulties in acquiring land for Railways which was >>> > > solved by promulgating TDR for the entire Mumbai Metropolitan Region >>> > > with an estimated population of 21 million (17 million in 2001, 2011 >>> > > census results are not yet out). It was an innovative solution first >>> > > issued by local State Government in 1991 and now copied by other >>> metros >>> > > of India. Even US is having such rules in some cities with heavy >>> rail. >>> > > Vietnam has a technical collaboration agreement with India, since it >>> was >>> > > was united and IR has participated in some of their projects for >>> > > Railways. >>> > > Mumbai has a separate Joint sector Corporation Mumbai Rail Vikas >>> > > Corporation undertaking Railway component of Mumbai Urban Transport >>> > > Projects Jointly funder by IBRD, Indian Government (through IR) and >>> > > Maharashtra Government. >>> > > They are available at www.mrvc.indianrail.gov.in Sanctioned >>> projects >>> > > under execution are about 2 billion dollars. >>> > > >>> > > Members of the group needing additional information on Indian high >>> > > capacity public transport systems can contact me and I will try my >>> best >>> > > to get it from original sources. IR uses wide bodied coaches 3667 mm >>> and >>> > > Dual traction system 1500 V. D.C. (under replacement) and 25 kV >>> single >>> > > phase 50 Hz system in Mumbai and other metropolitan areas. However >>> Hanoi >>> > > project as per data on the site quoted in the letter, mentions >>> Chinese >>> > > Government's aid for the project. >>> > > >>> > > Ho Chi Minh city in Vietnam has recently got Japanese aid for a Metro >>> > > Rail System Project (Financed by the Japan Special Fund) under ADB >>> aegis >>> > > www.adb.org/projects/project.asp?id=39500. >>> > > >>> > > With regards. >>> > > >>> > > K. P. Padiyar >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > -------------------------------------------------- >>> > > From: "AD" >>> > > Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 5:56 PM >>> > > To: >>> > > Subject: [sustran] First urban railway route in Hanoi under >>> construction >>> > > >>> > > > Source: >>> > > > >>> http://english.vietnamnet.vn/social/201009/First-urban-railway-route-i >>> > > > n-Hanoi-under-construction-937891/ >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > Looking forward to see the fare and wonder how could they make it >>> more >>> > > >>> > > > tempted than that of riding a motorcycle for people. >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > -------------------------------------------------------- >>> > > > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >>> > > > >>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >>> > > > >>> > > > -------------------------------------------------------- >>> > > > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >>> > > > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join >>> the >>> > > real >>> > > > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >>> > > > >>> > > > ================================================================ >>> > > > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >>> > > > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing >>> > > countries >>> > > > (the 'Global South'). >>> > > > >>> > > -------------------------------------------------------- >>> > > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >>> > > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >>> > > >>> > > -------------------------------------------------------- >>> > > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >>> > > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the >>> real >>> > > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >>> > > >>> > > ================================================================ >>> > > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >>> > > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing >>> countries >>> > > (the 'Global South'). >>> > > -------------------------------------------------------- >>> > > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >>> > > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >>> > > >>> > > -------------------------------------------------------- >>> > > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >>> > > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the >>> real >>> > > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >>> > > >>> > > ================================================================ >>> > > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >>> > > equitable >>> > > and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the >>> > 'Global >>> > > South'). >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > -------------------------------------------------------- >>> > > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >>> > > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >>> > > >>> > > -------------------------------------------------------- >>> > > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >>> > > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the >>> real >>> > > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >>> > > >>> > > ================================================================ >>> > > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >>> > > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing >>> countries >>> > > (the 'Global South'). >>> > > >>> > -------------------------------------------------------- >>> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >>> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >>> > >>> > -------------------------------------------------------- >>> > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >>> > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the >>> real >>> > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >>> > >>> > ================================================================ >>> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >>> > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing >>> countries >>> > (the 'Global South'). >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> *?..each million we invest into urban motorways is an investment >>> to destroy the city?* >>> >>> Mayor Hans Joachim Vogel >>> Munich 1970 >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Sujit Patwardhan >>> patwardhan.sujit@gmail.com >>> sujitjp@gmail.com >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Yamuna, ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007, India >>> Tel: +91 20 25537955 >>> Cell: +91 98220 26627 >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Parisar: www.parisar.org >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> -------------------------------------------------------- >>> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------- >>> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >>> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real >>> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >>> >>> ================================================================ >>> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >>> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries >>> (the 'Global South'). >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Cornie Huizenga >> Joint Convener >> Partnership on Sustainable, Low Carbon Transport >> Mobile: +86 13901949332 >> cornie.huizenga@slocatpartnership.org >> www.slocat.net >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real >> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >> >> ================================================================ >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries >> (the 'Global South'). >> >> >> > > > -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- *?..each million we invest into urban motorways is an investment to destroy the city?* Mayor Hans Joachim Vogel Munich 1970 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Sujit Patwardhan patwardhan.sujit@gmail.com sujit@parisar.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yamuna, ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007, India Tel: +91 20 25537955 Cell: +91 98220 26627 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Parisar: www.parisar.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From kppadiyar at gmail.com Tue Oct 5 17:27:34 2010 From: kppadiyar at gmail.com (K P Padiyar) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 13:57:34 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian metros the 90-10 rule revisited In-Reply-To: References: <20101004132638.183872tl3ijl1kcu@webmail.seas.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <91FC5E47EC6943B89FA8935F8B4D4EA4@CompaqPC> Dear Sri Patwardhan, Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian metros the 90-10 rule revisited Mumbai Rail commuters pay a development cess of Rs. 3 on a Rs 7 ticket from Vashi to CST by second class for meeting the cost of developing rail facilities in Mumbai region (Rs. 2 to CIDCO and Re 1 to IR . No such charge is levied on bus commuters. Bus charge is more than Rs. 20 to Flora Fountain. I have not travelled by bus over such a distance, as it too arduous and driving car was not possible after I attained 75 years. In addition, Residents of Navi Mumbai pay a development cess of 5% on the cost of land at the time of purchasing land for the building for land development and 10% at the time of building on the total cost of building including land, for providing civic facilities and transport infrastructure. Details are in the DCR 1991 for greater Bombay and its later revisions. Unfortunately all these methods were suggested by me in my article on Financing Urban transport infrastructure in an international seminar held by KOLKATA Metro while inaugurating their 1st route in 1985. It prompted GOI to set up two commissions - National commission on urbanizations which included all my suggestions in their report and The study group on alternative systems of Urban transport which defined capacities of systems they chose as PT modes suitable for India. My paper was proved right when CIDCO announced the extension of Harbor Branch from Mankhurd to Belapur towards the end of 1985. The prices of Commercial property shot up to Rs 495/sq.ft in 1986 auction as compared to Rs. 45/sq.ft in 1985. Current prices for residential property in Vashi is Rs 900/sq.ft (Rs. 30 in 1985} and Rs. 5000/sq.ft. Nobody doubted the ability of Railways to appreciate the land prices in its zone of influence. Unfortunately they have squeezed railway commuters more as suburban rail fare is dirt cheap compared to Bus. All this money is being now used for building Metro with a capacity of 30,000 pphpd compared to 80000 pphpd of Rail corridor and monorail with a capacity of 15000 pphpd now downgraded to 6000 pphpd due to sharp curves in the first section chosen for it. I do not normally comment on other forms of PT but monorail is not considered as PT even by DOT of US which accepts LRT and BRT as PT. If you are a crusader, include 7 million rail commuters of Mumbai in your crusade. Yearly 20,000 commuters loose their life on rail tracks due to difficulty of access into the train or access to roads outside the station. You can also crusade against people who misappropriate all footpaths around a rail halt over a distance of 1 km on either side of the halt in both up and down directions. With regards. K. P. Padiyar. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Sujit Patwardhan" Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 12:31 AM To: Cc: "Dr Adhiraj Joglekar" ; Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian metros the 90-10 rule revisited > 4 October 2010 > > > Dear Eric, > > We have been having these discussions internally for some time and are > going > to do an intensive brain-storming on under what conditions a Metro Rail > would have a positive impact on cities that are not overflowing with cash. > > The reality with most cities in India (except Mumbai with a strong North > South corridor carrying very high numbers) is that over 75% of journeys > are > shorter than 5 to 7 Kilometers. If we encourage or allow cities to grow > fast, adequate number of longer journeys may make the Metro Rail the ideal > mode but merely growth in city's population will not by itself justify a > Metro. > > Another observation about Indian cities that are screaming for a Metro > Rail > is the sad but real possibility that the major portion of a city's or > state's budget may get consumed by the cost of constructing and running > the > Metro, leading to neglect and decline of other cheaper and modes of > transit, > and this will hit the economically weaker sections of population the most. > > I can see that several different modes of transit can have a role to play > but this needs to be established by data and analysis city by city. Today > this is not happening. Metro is a toy everyone wants but no one is ready > to > pay the amount from their own pockets. Delhi has got its Metro and it is > losing heavily. To make up the losses, Delhi Metro is being offered real > estate incentives that may improve its bottom line but the price will be > paid by the residents of Delhi including the poorest sections who live > hand > to mouth. > -- > Sujit > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 10:56 PM, wrote: > >> >> Sujit >> >> Why does there have to be only one high capacity mode for a given >> city? The best systems in the world >> have several modes. Do airlines use only one sized airplane? Do >> freight companies only use one size truck and only drive on one type >> of road? >> >> Also, this argument that building BRT on roads would be cheaper is, of >> course, true. But this isn't the issue. >> The first issue is that it often takes many years to get control of >> the roads. How much of the BRT system in Delhi got built while the >> Metro was under construction? The second issue is that the speed isn't >> as high for at grade BRT that must cross intersections (ROW B under >> Prof. Vuchic's terminology.) Speed actually is important for >> megacities -- the Metro and regional rail attract long trips, while >> BRT would get medium distance trips. This speed can both help to >> promote or control sprawl depending upon other development policies. >> So metros can positively influence urban form. The third is that >> Metros can indeed support poly-nucleated cities not just traditional >> large CBDs. Have a look at Stockholm region. >> >> As I've said before, even though metros cost more to build, they are >> still needed in very large cities due to the physical reality of long >> distances. This reality doesn't change just because a country is >> richer or poorer. >> >> Eric Bruun >> >> Quoting Cornie Huizenga : >> >> Dear Sujit, >>> >>> Thanks for sharing this. This discussion reminds me of an earlier >>> discussion on urban transport in India. It was the urban development >>> minister who mentioned that 90% of he road space was allocated to 10% of >>> the >>> users. >>> >>> I think that there is an imminent danger that 90% of the funds for urban >>> public transport will be spent on metros who will not take up more than >>> 10% >>> of the trips :-) >>> >>> The ongoing debate on metros will shape urban transport and the Indian >>> cities to a great extent. Good luck! >>> >>> Cornie >>> >>> On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 8:36 PM, Sujit Patwardhan < >>> patwardhan.sujit@gmail.com >>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>> >>> 1 October 2010 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Dear Adhiraj, >>>> This makes imminent sense to me, but for common citizens the attraction >>>> for >>>> Metro grows with each passing day............. >>>> As strong advocates of Public Transport we want to be fair in judging >>>> the >>>> metro and not damn it out of hand but so far the case for a Metro seems >>>> unconvincing. We had organized a National Round Table Meeting on Metro >>>> Rail >>>> in Pune on 21st ans 22nd July. >>>> The Report from that programme is down-loadable from the Parisar >>>> website. >>>> Here is the link: >>>> http://www.parisar.org/activities/events/122-the-city-and-the-metro.html >>>> We will apprecaite your comments and suggestions. >>>> Many thanks >>>> -- >>>> Sujit >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 5:51 PM, Dr Adhiraj Joglekar < >>>> adhiraj.joglekar@googlemail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> > The only alternative available...... in medicine (being a doctor) >>>> > there >>>> is >>>> > a >>>> > dictum, you only need one exception to the rule to disprove a >>>> > dogmatic >>>> > belief / theory. >>>> > >>>> > London tubes do 3.5 million passenger trips per day, London buses >>>> > carry >>>> > double this number. And its a traditional bus service with handful of >>>> bus >>>> > lanes. >>>> > >>>> > Same is true with Mumbai buses considering they do not cover the >>>> > length >>>> of >>>> > tracks beyond corporation limits as the trains do. BEST does 4.5 >>>> million >>>> > trips a day in a geographically smaller area. Considering that in >>>> Mumbai >>>> > population has shot to 20 million (against London's 8m) they have >>>> > half >>>> the >>>> > number of buses than in London and no bus lanes. Those keen may look >>>> > up >>>> > Chennai buses and their numbers. Bangalore also has a bus service >>>> managing >>>> > 3m trips a day. >>>> > >>>> > In Mumbai 60 odd flyovers (which are no use to buses) have made life >>>> > a >>>> hell >>>> > by trying to make way for more cars. Mumbai actually has the sea link >>>> as >>>> > its >>>> > best TDM example, the sea link will come to a halt if its use was >>>> > FREE. >>>> > >>>> > The bottom line is to free up our roads and use buses - they offer a >>>> door >>>> > to >>>> > door service as against trains and even BRT which need dedicated >>>> corridors >>>> > - >>>> > it takes me 20 minutes walking to get to stations (it takes 8 minutes >>>> on >>>> > average to walk 500 meters) for my daily commute in London by train >>>> while >>>> > bus stops are just outside on main street. Even after changing buses >>>> and >>>> > respecting 3 dozen signals on road, the bus on average is only 10 >>>> minutes >>>> > more. Halve the cars and the bus would beat the train!! >>>> > >>>> > Further, our city planners and slum redevelopment authorities want to >>>> place >>>> > half a million daily wage earners who live and work in their shanties >>>> of >>>> > Dharavi producing $1 billion worth of turnover every year in to >>>> communist >>>> > style matchbox flats in vertical estates (which ironically are being >>>> > demolished in UK in some places). This would free up land for luxury >>>> flats >>>> > for the neo rich and double population of Dharavi. More crucially >>>> > businesses >>>> > may relocate and suddenly what was a sustainable model (bus for the >>>> lack >>>> of >>>> > sanitation) changes to people being forced to commute on so called >>>> elevated >>>> > metro trains. >>>> > >>>> > Cheers. >>>> > >>>> > AJ >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > On 1 October 2010 03:43, AD wrote: >>>> > >>>> > > Dear Mr. Padiyar, >>>> > > >>>> > > You wrote "According to global standards for rail based public >>>> > > transport, this is the only alternative available for meeting the >>>> demand >>>> > > - Tokyo, Hong Kong...".I thought some BRT systems if planned >>>> > > properly >>>> can >>>> > > technically get the same capacity as rail-based public transport. >>>> > > >>>> > > For me, which technology (subway, light rail, BRT) is used is not >>>> that >>>> > > important >>>> > > because they are all mass transit. What government in a developing >>>> > country >>>> > > should concern is how to use as less as possible money on mass >>>> transit >>>> > > option >>>> > > (of course with the same capacity) so that the extra money can be >>>> used >>>> to >>>> > > invest >>>> > > in improving pedestrian condition, which actually is the underlying >>>> > > prerequisite >>>> > > for any bus/rail trip. >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > And also, as mentioned by Lee Schipper, any of these mass transit >>>> > > has >>>> to >>>> > > compete >>>> > > with motorcycles (or in other words - convenience). Therefore by >>>> taking >>>> > the >>>> > > existing road space for its busways, BRT does the job better than >>>> > > its >>>> > > counterparts: subway or elevated rail. >>>> > > >>>> > > With best regards, >>>> > > >>>> > > AD. >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > ________________________________ >>>> > > From: Lee Schipper >>>> > > To: K P Padiyar ; >>>> sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org >>>> > > Sent: Thu, September 30, 2010 12:52:02 AM >>>> > > Subject: [sustran] Re: First urban railway route in Hanoi under >>>> > > construction >>>> > > >>>> > > I think it is worth mentioning that Hanoi has at least twice the >>>> > > ownership rate of two-wheelers of any city in India, more than 1 >>>> > > two >>>> > > wheeler per household. That means that any urban rail way or BRT >>>> > > (one >>>> of >>>> > > each is under development) has to compete with one of the most >>>> motorized >>>> > > populations in the entire world. Here is a bit of background from >>>> > > my >>>> > > EMBARQ days. >>>> > > http://www.embarq.org/en/our-work/publications/hanoi-vietnam >>>> > > Commuting distances are relatively short, one reason why the >>>> > > conventional bus system started 10 years ago and two wheelers are >>>> > > so >>>> > > popular, not to mention conventional bicycles and even more >>>> conventional >>>> > > feet. There is a master plan for developing more distant suburbs >>>> where >>>> > > an urban rail network could be useful, but that may depend on how >>>> > > the >>>> > > authorities deal with the cost of two wheeler fuel and whether >>>> > > there >>>> is >>>> > > a sensible way of charging for increasingly crowded road space in >>>> > > the >>>> > > main parts of Hanoi. >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > Lee Schipper, Ph.D. >>>> > > Project Scientist, Global Metropolitan Studies, UC Berkeley >>>> > > Senior Research Engineer, Precourt Energy Efficiency Center, >>>> > > Stanford >>>> > > Univ. >>>> > > phone +1 510 642 6889 >>>> > > fax +1 510 642 6061 >>>> > > cell for emergencies +1 202 262 7476 >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > -----Original Message----- >>>> > > From: sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org@list.jca.apc.org >>>> > > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper >>>> >>>> >>>> > >>>> > > =wri.org@list.jca.apc.org] On >>>> > > Behalf Of K P Padiyar >>>> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 10:44 AM >>>> > > To: sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org >>>> > > Subject: [sustran] Re: First urban railway route in Hanoi under >>>> > > construction >>>> > > >>>> > > Dear All, >>>> > > >>>> > > Even though I have subscribed to this group since 2005, I have not >>>> > > participated in their discussions so far. With my background of >>>> > > more >>>> > > than 16 years of my service life in operating maintaining, planning >>>> and >>>> > > designing suburban rail services of Indian Railways in Mumbai which >>>> > > today carries nearly 7 million passengers daily on 5 HRT corridors >>>> > > of >>>> > > which two carry main line passenger and freight traffic also. >>>> > > Design >>>> > > capacity of these corridors is 1.2 million for dedicated corridors >>>> and >>>> > > half that for mainline corridors, I felt emboldened to muscle in on >>>> the >>>> > > august array of transport specialists on this issue. >>>> > > >>>> > > According to Demografia 2008, Hanoi is the second largest city of >>>> > > Vietnam with a population of 3 million with average population >>>> density >>>> > > of 154.5 persons/ha. According to global standards for rail based >>>> public >>>> > > transport, this is the only alternative available for meeting the >>>> demand >>>> > > - Tokyo, Hong Kong. Mumbai Moscow. (Dr. Kenworthy's work for UITP >>>> > > and >>>> WB >>>> > > in 1990s.). Hanoi is planning for a capacity of 28000 pphpd which >>>> works >>>> > > out as 467 000 trips/day which is low compared to likely demand >>>> > > with >>>> CBD >>>> > > densities (Job + >>>> > > population) exceeding 300 as in Mumbai where Mumbai Island has a >>>> density >>>> > > of 800/ha. >>>> > > >>>> > > Mumbai also had difficulties in acquiring land for Railways which >>>> > > was >>>> > > solved by promulgating TDR for the entire Mumbai Metropolitan >>>> > > Region >>>> > > with an estimated population of 21 million (17 million in 2001, >>>> > > 2011 >>>> > > census results are not yet out). It was an innovative solution >>>> > > first >>>> > > issued by local State Government in 1991 and now copied by other >>>> metros >>>> > > of India. Even US is having such rules in some cities with heavy >>>> rail. >>>> > > Vietnam has a technical collaboration agreement with India, since >>>> > > it >>>> was >>>> > > was united and IR has participated in some of their projects for >>>> > > Railways. >>>> > > Mumbai has a separate Joint sector Corporation Mumbai Rail Vikas >>>> > > Corporation undertaking Railway component of Mumbai Urban Transport >>>> > > Projects Jointly funder by IBRD, Indian Government (through IR) and >>>> > > Maharashtra Government. >>>> > > They are available at www.mrvc.indianrail.gov.in Sanctioned >>>> projects >>>> > > under execution are about 2 billion dollars. >>>> > > >>>> > > Members of the group needing additional information on Indian high >>>> > > capacity public transport systems can contact me and I will try my >>>> best >>>> > > to get it from original sources. IR uses wide bodied coaches 3667 >>>> > > mm >>>> and >>>> > > Dual traction system 1500 V. D.C. (under replacement) and 25 kV >>>> single >>>> > > phase 50 Hz system in Mumbai and other metropolitan areas. However >>>> Hanoi >>>> > > project as per data on the site quoted in the letter, mentions >>>> Chinese >>>> > > Government's aid for the project. >>>> > > >>>> > > Ho Chi Minh city in Vietnam has recently got Japanese aid for a >>>> > > Metro >>>> > > Rail System Project (Financed by the Japan Special Fund) under ADB >>>> aegis >>>> > > www.adb.org/projects/project.asp?id=39500. >>>> > > >>>> > > With regards. >>>> > > >>>> > > K. P. Padiyar >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > -------------------------------------------------- >>>> > > From: "AD" >>>> > > Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 5:56 PM >>>> > > To: >>>> > > Subject: [sustran] First urban railway route in Hanoi under >>>> construction >>>> > > >>>> > > > Source: >>>> > > > >>>> http://english.vietnamnet.vn/social/201009/First-urban-railway-route-i >>>> > > > n-Hanoi-under-construction-937891/ >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > Looking forward to see the fare and wonder how could they make it >>>> more >>>> > > >>>> > > > tempted than that of riding a motorcycle for people. >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > -------------------------------------------------------- >>>> > > > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >>>> > > > >>>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >>>> > > > >>>> > > > -------------------------------------------------------- >>>> > > > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >>>> > > > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join >>>> the >>>> > > real >>>> > > > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >>>> > > > >>>> > > > ================================================================ >>>> > > > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of >>>> > > > people-centred, >>>> > > > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing >>>> > > countries >>>> > > > (the 'Global South'). >>>> > > > >>>> > > -------------------------------------------------------- >>>> > > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >>>> > > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >>>> > > >>>> > > -------------------------------------------------------- >>>> > > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >>>> > > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the >>>> real >>>> > > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >>>> > > >>>> > > ================================================================ >>>> > > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >>>> > > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing >>>> countries >>>> > > (the 'Global South'). >>>> > > -------------------------------------------------------- >>>> > > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >>>> > > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >>>> > > >>>> > > -------------------------------------------------------- >>>> > > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >>>> > > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the >>>> real >>>> > > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >>>> > > >>>> > > ================================================================ >>>> > > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >>>> > > equitable >>>> > > and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the >>>> > 'Global >>>> > > South'). >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > -------------------------------------------------------- >>>> > > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >>>> > > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >>>> > > >>>> > > -------------------------------------------------------- >>>> > > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >>>> > > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the >>>> real >>>> > > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >>>> > > >>>> > > ================================================================ >>>> > > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >>>> > > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing >>>> countries >>>> > > (the 'Global South'). >>>> > > >>>> > -------------------------------------------------------- >>>> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >>>> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >>>> > >>>> > -------------------------------------------------------- >>>> > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >>>> > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the >>>> real >>>> > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >>>> > >>>> > ================================================================ >>>> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >>>> > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing >>>> countries >>>> > (the 'Global South'). >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> *?..each million we invest into urban motorways is an investment >>>> to destroy the city?* >>>> >>>> Mayor Hans Joachim Vogel >>>> Munich 1970 >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> Sujit Patwardhan >>>> patwardhan.sujit@gmail.com >>>> sujitjp@gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> Yamuna, ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007, India >>>> Tel: +91 20 25537955 >>>> Cell: +91 98220 26627 >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> Parisar: www.parisar.org >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> -------------------------------------------------------- >>>> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >>>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------- >>>> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >>>> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the >>>> real >>>> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >>>> >>>> ================================================================ >>>> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >>>> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing >>>> countries >>>> (the 'Global South'). >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Cornie Huizenga >>> Joint Convener >>> Partnership on Sustainable, Low Carbon Transport >>> Mobile: +86 13901949332 >>> cornie.huizenga@slocatpartnership.org >>> www.slocat.net >>> -------------------------------------------------------- >>> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------- >>> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >>> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real >>> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >>> >>> ================================================================ >>> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >>> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries >>> (the 'Global South'). >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > -- > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > *?..each million we invest into urban motorways is an investment > to destroy the city?* > > Mayor Hans Joachim Vogel > Munich 1970 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Sujit Patwardhan > patwardhan.sujit@gmail.com > sujit@parisar.org > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yamuna, ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007, India > Tel: +91 20 25537955 > Cell: +91 98220 26627 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Parisar: www.parisar.org > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Tue Oct 5 18:57:35 2010 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric britton) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 11:57:35 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Indian metros the 90-10 rule revisited In-Reply-To: <20101004132638.183872tl3ijl1kcu@webmail.seas.upenn.edu> References: <20101004132638.183872tl3ijl1kcu@webmail.seas.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <014801cb6473$c1d46550$457d2ff0$@britton@ecoplan.org> Dear Eric (Bruun). I had been waiting for you to show up, and it's my guess that I am not the only one. Why? Because I always like to hear the heavy rail argument cogently and completely stated. If it's our best option, then all it has to do is prove it, step by transparent step. If we can come up with a better Plan B that is better, faster and cheaper (for all), then we can look at them side by side and make the decision. Can we agree on that? Kind regards, Eric Britton PS. Read the Sweet Victory piece in today's World Streets. It provides some interesting clues. -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+eric.britton=ecoplan.org@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+eric.britton=ecoplan.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of bruun@seas.upenn.edu Sent: Monday, 04 October, 2010 19:27 To: Cornie Huizenga; sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org Cc: Dr Adhiraj Joglekar Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian metros the 90-10 rule revisited Sujit Why does there have to be only one high capacity mode for a given city? The best systems in the world have several modes. Do airlines use only one sized airplane? Do freight companies only use one size truck and only drive on one type of road? Also, this argument that building BRT on roads would be cheaper is, of course, true. But this isn't the issue. The first issue is that it often takes many years to get control of the roads. How much of the BRT system in Delhi got built while the Metro was under construction? The second issue is that the speed isn't as high for at grade BRT that must cross intersections (ROW B under Prof. Vuchic's terminology.) Speed actually is important for megacities -- the Metro and regional rail attract long trips, while BRT would get medium distance trips. This speed can both help to promote or control sprawl depending upon other development policies. So metros can positively influence urban form. The third is that Metros can indeed support poly-nucleated cities not just traditional large CBDs. Have a look at Stockholm region. As I've said before, even though metros cost more to build, they are still needed in very large cities due to the physical reality of long distances. This reality doesn't change just because a country is richer or poorer. Eric Bruun Quoting Cornie Huizenga : > Dear Sujit, > > Thanks for sharing this. This discussion reminds me of an earlier > discussion on urban transport in India. It was the urban development > minister who mentioned that 90% of he road space was allocated to 10% of the > users. > > I think that there is an imminent danger that 90% of the funds for urban > public transport will be spent on metros who will not take up more than 10% > of the trips :-) > > The ongoing debate on metros will shape urban transport and the Indian > cities to a great extent. Good luck! > > Cornie > > On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 8:36 PM, Sujit Patwardhan > wrote: > >> 1 October 2010 >> >> >> >> Dear Adhiraj, >> This makes imminent sense to me, but for common citizens the attraction for >> Metro grows with each passing day............. >> As strong advocates of Public Transport we want to be fair in judging the >> metro and not damn it out of hand but so far the case for a Metro seems >> unconvincing. We had organized a National Round Table Meeting on Metro Rail >> in Pune on 21st and 22nd July. >> The Report from that programme is down-loadable from the Parisar website. >> Here is the link: >> http://www.parisar.org/activities/events/122-the-city-and-the-metro.html >> We will appreciate your comments and suggestions. >> Many thanks >> -- >> Sujit >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 5:51 PM, Dr Adhiraj Joglekar < >> adhiraj.joglekar@googlemail.com> wrote: >> >> > The only alternative available...... in medicine (being a doctor) there >> is >> > a >> > dictum, you only need one exception to the rule to disprove a dogmatic >> > belief / theory. >> > >> > London tubes do 3.5 million passenger trips per day, London buses carry >> > double this number. And its a traditional bus service with handful of bus >> > lanes. >> > >> > Same is true with Mumbai buses considering they do not cover the length >> of >> > tracks beyond corporation limits as the trains do. BEST does 4.5 million >> > trips a day in a geographically smaller area. Considering that in Mumbai >> > population has shot to 20 million (against London's 8m) they have half >> the >> > number of buses than in London and no bus lanes. Those keen may look up >> > Chennai buses and their numbers. Bangalore also has a bus service >> managing >> > 3m trips a day. >> > >> > In Mumbai 60 odd flyovers (which are no use to buses) have made life a >> hell >> > by trying to make way for more cars. Mumbai actually has the sea link as >> > its >> > best TDM example, the sea link will come to a halt if its use was FREE. >> > >> > The bottom line is to free up our roads and use buses - they offer a door >> > to >> > door service as against trains and even BRT which need dedicated >> corridors >> > - >> > it takes me 20 minutes walking to get to stations (it takes 8 minutes on >> > average to walk 500 meters) for my daily commute in London by train while >> > bus stops are just outside on main street. Even after changing buses and >> > respecting 3 dozen signals on road, the bus on average is only 10 minutes >> > more. Halve the cars and the bus would beat the train!! >> > >> > Further, our city planners and slum redevelopment authorities want to >> place >> > half a million daily wage earners who live and work in their shanties of >> > Dharavi producing $1 billion worth of turnover every year in to communist >> > style matchbox flats in vertical estates (which ironically are being >> > demolished in UK in some places). This would free up land for luxury >> flats >> > for the neo rich and double population of Dharavi. More crucially >> > businesses >> > may relocate and suddenly what was a sustainable model (bus for the lack >> of >> > sanitation) changes to people being forced to commute on so called >> elevated >> > metro trains. >> > >> > Cheers. >> > >> > AJ >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On 1 October 2010 03:43, AD wrote: >> > >> > > Dear Mr. Padiyar, >> > > >> > > You wrote "According to global standards for rail based public >> > > transport, this is the only alternative available for meeting the >> demand >> > > - Tokyo, Hong Kong...".I thought some BRT systems if planned properly >> can >> > > technically get the same capacity as rail-based public transport. >> > > >> > > For me, which technology (subway, light rail, BRT) is used is not that >> > > important >> > > because they are all mass transit. What government in a developing >> > country >> > > should concern is how to use as less as possible money on mass transit >> > > option >> > > (of course with the same capacity) so that the extra money can be used >> to >> > > invest >> > > in improving pedestrian condition, which actually is the underlying >> > > prerequisite >> > > for any bus/rail trip. >> > > >> > > >> > > And also, as mentioned by Lee Schipper, any of these mass transit has >> to >> > > compete >> > > with motorcycles (or in other words - convenience). Therefore by taking >> > the >> > > existing road space for its busways, BRT does the job better than its >> > > counterparts: subway or elevated rail. >> > > >> > > With best regards, >> > > >> > > AD. >> > > >> > > >> > > ________________________________ >> > > From: Lee Schipper >> > > To: K P Padiyar ; >> sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org >> > > Sent: Thu, September 30, 2010 12:52:02 AM >> > > Subject: [sustran] Re: First urban railway route in Hanoi under >> > > construction >> > > >> > > I think it is worth mentioning that Hanoi has at least twice the >> > > ownership rate of two-wheelers of any city in India, more than 1 two >> > > wheeler per household. That means that any urban rail way or BRT (one >> of >> > > each is under development) has to compete with one of the most >> motorized >> > > populations in the entire world. Here is a bit of background from my >> > > EMBARQ days. >> > > http://www.embarq.org/en/our-work/publications/hanoi-vietnam >> > > Commuting distances are relatively short, one reason why the >> > > conventional bus system started 10 years ago and two wheelers are so >> > > popular, not to mention conventional bicycles and even more >> conventional >> > > feet. There is a master plan for developing more distant suburbs where >> > > an urban rail network could be useful, but that may depend on how the >> > > authorities deal with the cost of two wheeler fuel and whether there is >> > > a sensible way of charging for increasingly crowded road space in the >> > > main parts of Hanoi. >> > > >> > > >> > > Lee Schipper, Ph.D. >> > > Project Scientist, Global Metropolitan Studies, UC Berkeley >> > > Senior Research Engineer, Precourt Energy Efficiency Center, Stanford >> > > Univ. >> > > phone +1 510 642 6889 >> > > fax +1 510 642 6061 >> > > cell for emergencies +1 202 262 7476 >> > > >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org@list.jca.apc.org >> > > >> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper >> >> > >> > > =wri.org@list.jca.apc.org] On >> > > Behalf Of K P Padiyar >> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 10:44 AM >> > > To: sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org >> > > Subject: [sustran] Re: First urban railway route in Hanoi under >> > > construction >> > > >> > > Dear All, >> > > >> > > Even though I have subscribed to this group since 2005, I have not >> > > participated in their discussions so far. With my background of more >> > > than 16 years of my service life in operating maintaining, planning and >> > > designing suburban rail services of Indian Railways in Mumbai which >> > > today carries nearly 7 million passengers daily on 5 HRT corridors of >> > > which two carry main line passenger and freight traffic also. Design >> > > capacity of these corridors is 1.2 million for dedicated corridors and >> > > half that for mainline corridors, I felt emboldened to muscle in on the >> > > august array of transport specialists on this issue. >> > > >> > > According to Demografia 2008, Hanoi is the second largest city of >> > > Vietnam with a population of 3 million with average population density >> > > of 154.5 persons/ha. According to global standards for rail based >> public >> > > transport, this is the only alternative available for meeting the >> demand >> > > - Tokyo, Hong Kong. Mumbai Moscow. (Dr. Kenworthy's work for UITP and >> WB >> > > in 1990s.). Hanoi is planning for a capacity of 28000 pphpd which >> works >> > > out as 467 000 trips/day which is low compared to likely demand with >> CBD >> > > densities (Job + >> > > population) exceeding 300 as in Mumbai where Mumbai Island has a >> density >> > > of 800/ha. >> > > >> > > Mumbai also had difficulties in acquiring land for Railways which was >> > > solved by promulgating TDR for the entire Mumbai Metropolitan Region >> > > with an estimated population of 21 million (17 million in 2001, 2011 >> > > census results are not yet out). It was an innovative solution first >> > > issued by local State Government in 1991 and now copied by other metros >> > > of India. Even US is having such rules in some cities with heavy rail. >> > > Vietnam has a technical collaboration agreement with India, since it >> was >> > > was united and IR has participated in some of their projects for >> > > Railways. >> > > Mumbai has a separate Joint sector Corporation Mumbai Rail Vikas >> > > Corporation undertaking Railway component of Mumbai Urban Transport >> > > Projects Jointly funder by IBRD, Indian Government (through IR) and >> > > Maharashtra Government. >> > > They are available at www.mrvc.indianrail.gov.in Sanctioned >> projects >> > > under execution are about 2 billion dollars. >> > > >> > > Members of the group needing additional information on Indian high >> > > capacity public transport systems can contact me and I will try my >> best >> > > to get it from original sources. IR uses wide bodied coaches 3667 mm >> and >> > > Dual traction system 1500 V. D.C. (under replacement) and 25 kV single >> > > phase 50 Hz system in Mumbai and other metropolitan areas. However >> Hanoi >> > > project as per data on the site quoted in the letter, mentions Chinese >> > > Government's aid for the project. >> > > >> > > Ho Chi Minh city in Vietnam has recently got Japanese aid for a Metro >> > > Rail System Project (Financed by the Japan Special Fund) under ADB >> aegis >> > > www.adb.org/projects/project.asp?id=39500. >> > > >> > > With regards. >> > > >> > > K. P. Padiyar >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > -------------------------------------------------- >> > > From: "AD" >> > > Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 5:56 PM >> > > To: >> > > Subject: [sustran] First urban railway route in Hanoi under >> construction >> > > >> > > > Source: >> > > > >> http://english.vietnamnet.vn/social/201009/First-urban-railway-route-i >> > > > n-Hanoi-under-construction-937891/ >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Looking forward to see the fare and wonder how could they make it >> more >> > > >> > > > tempted than that of riding a motorcycle for people. >> > > > From adhiraj.joglekar at googlemail.com Tue Oct 5 21:26:36 2010 From: adhiraj.joglekar at googlemail.com (Dr Adhiraj Joglekar) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 13:26:36 +0100 Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian metros the 90-10 rule revisited In-Reply-To: References: <20101004132638.183872tl3ijl1kcu@webmail.seas.upenn.edu> Message-ID: I agree with you Sujit, *The reality with most cities in India (except Mumbai with a strong North South corridor carrying very high numbers) is that over 75% of journeys are shorter than 5 to 7 Kilometers.* In fact having grown up in South Mumbai I can vouch for the fact that trains were never a good option for travel inside Mumbai. Mumbai actually much like other cities in India is geographically small. People do not realise that the trains actually serve 6 Municipal Corporations along 3 longitudinal tracks. Historically, South Mumbai was the only CBD but real estate always came at a premium, development hence was along these lines. In many ways these rail lines carrying masses at ultra crush loads are inter-city routes which are wrongly synonimised as urban rail transport. Within each of these cities, those who work fairly locally, to them these trains are useless. They are more equal to British rail which connects home counties to London city. *the sad but real possibility that the major portion of a city's or state's budget may get consumed by the cost of constructing and running the Metro, leading to neglect and decline of other cheaper and modes of transit,* Let me add to this point, its not just about transit as this forum would make one think. How many in this group have compared the metro rail budgets with National health budget, National education budget in India? If not, I recommend people do spend time making sense of the economics. If that does not make it possible to see why cost effective solutions are important (and to me that's a simple traditional bus based service first before cities like Kochi / Pune start the rhetoric of metro), perhaps nothing will. Adhiraj On 4 October 2010 20:01, Sujit Patwardhan wrote: > 4 October 2010 > > > Dear Eric, > > We have been having these discussions internally for some time and are > going to do an intensive brain-storming on under what conditions a Metro > Rail would have a positive impact on cities that are not overflowing with > cash. > > The reality with most cities in India (except Mumbai with a strong North > South corridor carrying very high numbers) is that over 75% of journeys are > shorter than 5 to 7 Kilometers. If we encourage or allow cities to grow > fast, adequate number of longer journeys may make the Metro Rail the ideal > mode but merely growth in city's population will not by itself justify a > Metro. > > Another observation about Indian cities that are screaming for a Metro Rail > is the sad but real possibility that the major portion of a city's or > state's budget may get consumed by the cost of constructing and running the > Metro, leading to neglect and decline of other cheaper and modes of transit, > and this will hit the economically weaker sections of population the most. > > I can see that several different modes of transit can have a role to play > but this needs to be established by data and analysis city by city. Today > this is not happening. Metro is a toy everyone wants but no one is ready to > pay the amount from their own pockets. Delhi has got its Metro and it is > losing heavily. To make up the losses, Delhi Metro is being offered real > estate incentives that may improve its bottom line but the price will be > paid by the residents of Delhi including the poorest sections who live hand > to mouth. > -- > Sujit > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 10:56 PM, wrote: > >> >> Sujit >> >> Why does there have to be only one high capacity mode for a given >> city? The best systems in the world >> have several modes. Do airlines use only one sized airplane? Do >> freight companies only use one size truck and only drive on one type >> of road? >> >> Also, this argument that building BRT on roads would be cheaper is, of >> course, true. But this isn't the issue. >> The first issue is that it often takes many years to get control of >> the roads. How much of the BRT system in Delhi got built while the >> Metro was under construction? The second issue is that the speed isn't >> as high for at grade BRT that must cross intersections (ROW B under >> Prof. Vuchic's terminology.) Speed actually is important for >> megacities -- the Metro and regional rail attract long trips, while >> BRT would get medium distance trips. This speed can both help to >> promote or control sprawl depending upon other development policies. >> So metros can positively influence urban form. The third is that >> Metros can indeed support poly-nucleated cities not just traditional >> large CBDs. Have a look at Stockholm region. >> >> As I've said before, even though metros cost more to build, they are >> still needed in very large cities due to the physical reality of long >> distances. This reality doesn't change just because a country is >> richer or poorer. >> >> Eric Bruun >> >> Quoting Cornie Huizenga : >> >> Dear Sujit, >>> >>> Thanks for sharing this. This discussion reminds me of an earlier >>> discussion on urban transport in India. It was the urban development >>> minister who mentioned that 90% of he road space was allocated to 10% of >>> the >>> users. >>> >>> I think that there is an imminent danger that 90% of the funds for urban >>> public transport will be spent on metros who will not take up more than >>> 10% >>> of the trips :-) >>> >>> The ongoing debate on metros will shape urban transport and the Indian >>> cities to a great extent. Good luck! >>> >>> Cornie >>> >>> On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 8:36 PM, Sujit Patwardhan < >>> patwardhan.sujit@gmail.com >>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>> >>> 1 October 2010 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Dear Adhiraj, >>>> This makes imminent sense to me, but for common citizens the attraction >>>> for >>>> Metro grows with each passing day............. >>>> As strong advocates of Public Transport we want to be fair in judging >>>> the >>>> metro and not damn it out of hand but so far the case for a Metro seems >>>> unconvincing. We had organized a National Round Table Meeting on Metro >>>> Rail >>>> in Pune on 21st ans 22nd July. >>>> The Report from that programme is down-loadable from the Parisar >>>> website. >>>> Here is the link: >>>> http://www.parisar.org/activities/events/122-the-city-and-the-metro.html >>>> We will apprecaite your comments and suggestions. >>>> Many thanks >>>> -- >>>> Sujit >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 5:51 PM, Dr Adhiraj Joglekar < >>>> adhiraj.joglekar@googlemail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> > The only alternative available...... in medicine (being a doctor) >>>> there >>>> is >>>> > a >>>> > dictum, you only need one exception to the rule to disprove a dogmatic >>>> > belief / theory. >>>> > >>>> > London tubes do 3.5 million passenger trips per day, London buses >>>> carry >>>> > double this number. And its a traditional bus service with handful of >>>> bus >>>> > lanes. >>>> > >>>> > Same is true with Mumbai buses considering they do not cover the >>>> length >>>> of >>>> > tracks beyond corporation limits as the trains do. BEST does 4.5 >>>> million >>>> > trips a day in a geographically smaller area. Considering that in >>>> Mumbai >>>> > population has shot to 20 million (against London's 8m) they have half >>>> the >>>> > number of buses than in London and no bus lanes. Those keen may look >>>> up >>>> > Chennai buses and their numbers. Bangalore also has a bus service >>>> managing >>>> > 3m trips a day. >>>> > >>>> > In Mumbai 60 odd flyovers (which are no use to buses) have made life a >>>> hell >>>> > by trying to make way for more cars. Mumbai actually has the sea link >>>> as >>>> > its >>>> > best TDM example, the sea link will come to a halt if its use was >>>> FREE. >>>> > >>>> > The bottom line is to free up our roads and use buses - they offer a >>>> door >>>> > to >>>> > door service as against trains and even BRT which need dedicated >>>> corridors >>>> > - >>>> > it takes me 20 minutes walking to get to stations (it takes 8 minutes >>>> on >>>> > average to walk 500 meters) for my daily commute in London by train >>>> while >>>> > bus stops are just outside on main street. Even after changing buses >>>> and >>>> > respecting 3 dozen signals on road, the bus on average is only 10 >>>> minutes >>>> > more. Halve the cars and the bus would beat the train!! >>>> > >>>> > Further, our city planners and slum redevelopment authorities want to >>>> place >>>> > half a million daily wage earners who live and work in their shanties >>>> of >>>> > Dharavi producing $1 billion worth of turnover every year in to >>>> communist >>>> > style matchbox flats in vertical estates (which ironically are being >>>> > demolished in UK in some places). This would free up land for luxury >>>> flats >>>> > for the neo rich and double population of Dharavi. More crucially >>>> > businesses >>>> > may relocate and suddenly what was a sustainable model (bus for the >>>> lack >>>> of >>>> > sanitation) changes to people being forced to commute on so called >>>> elevated >>>> > metro trains. >>>> > >>>> > Cheers. >>>> > >>>> > AJ >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > On 1 October 2010 03:43, AD wrote: >>>> > >>>> > > Dear Mr. Padiyar, >>>> > > >>>> > > You wrote "According to global standards for rail based public >>>> > > transport, this is the only alternative available for meeting the >>>> demand >>>> > > - Tokyo, Hong Kong...".I thought some BRT systems if planned >>>> properly >>>> can >>>> > > technically get the same capacity as rail-based public transport. >>>> > > >>>> > > For me, which technology (subway, light rail, BRT) is used is not >>>> that >>>> > > important >>>> > > because they are all mass transit. What government in a developing >>>> > country >>>> > > should concern is how to use as less as possible money on mass >>>> transit >>>> > > option >>>> > > (of course with the same capacity) so that the extra money can be >>>> used >>>> to >>>> > > invest >>>> > > in improving pedestrian condition, which actually is the underlying >>>> > > prerequisite >>>> > > for any bus/rail trip. >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > And also, as mentioned by Lee Schipper, any of these mass transit >>>> has >>>> to >>>> > > compete >>>> > > with motorcycles (or in other words - convenience). Therefore by >>>> taking >>>> > the >>>> > > existing road space for its busways, BRT does the job better than >>>> its >>>> > > counterparts: subway or elevated rail. >>>> > > >>>> > > With best regards, >>>> > > >>>> > > AD. >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > ________________________________ >>>> > > From: Lee Schipper >>>> > > To: K P Padiyar ; >>>> sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org >>>> > > Sent: Thu, September 30, 2010 12:52:02 AM >>>> > > Subject: [sustran] Re: First urban railway route in Hanoi under >>>> > > construction >>>> > > >>>> > > I think it is worth mentioning that Hanoi has at least twice the >>>> > > ownership rate of two-wheelers of any city in India, more than 1 two >>>> > > wheeler per household. That means that any urban rail way or BRT >>>> (one >>>> of >>>> > > each is under development) has to compete with one of the most >>>> motorized >>>> > > populations in the entire world. Here is a bit of background from my >>>> > > EMBARQ days. >>>> > > http://www.embarq.org/en/our-work/publications/hanoi-vietnam >>>> > > Commuting distances are relatively short, one reason why the >>>> > > conventional bus system started 10 years ago and two wheelers are so >>>> > > popular, not to mention conventional bicycles and even more >>>> conventional >>>> > > feet. There is a master plan for developing more distant suburbs >>>> where >>>> > > an urban rail network could be useful, but that may depend on how >>>> the >>>> > > authorities deal with the cost of two wheeler fuel and whether there >>>> is >>>> > > a sensible way of charging for increasingly crowded road space in >>>> the >>>> > > main parts of Hanoi. >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > Lee Schipper, Ph.D. >>>> > > Project Scientist, Global Metropolitan Studies, UC Berkeley >>>> > > Senior Research Engineer, Precourt Energy Efficiency Center, >>>> Stanford >>>> > > Univ. >>>> > > phone +1 510 642 6889 >>>> > > fax +1 510 642 6061 >>>> > > cell for emergencies +1 202 262 7476 >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > -----Original Message----- >>>> > > From: sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org@list.jca.apc.org >>>> > > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper >>>> >>>> >>>> > >>>> > > =wri.org@list.jca.apc.org] On >>>> > > Behalf Of K P Padiyar >>>> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 10:44 AM >>>> > > To: sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org >>>> > > Subject: [sustran] Re: First urban railway route in Hanoi under >>>> > > construction >>>> > > >>>> > > Dear All, >>>> > > >>>> > > Even though I have subscribed to this group since 2005, I have not >>>> > > participated in their discussions so far. With my background of more >>>> > > than 16 years of my service life in operating maintaining, planning >>>> and >>>> > > designing suburban rail services of Indian Railways in Mumbai which >>>> > > today carries nearly 7 million passengers daily on 5 HRT corridors >>>> of >>>> > > which two carry main line passenger and freight traffic also. Design >>>> > > capacity of these corridors is 1.2 million for dedicated corridors >>>> and >>>> > > half that for mainline corridors, I felt emboldened to muscle in on >>>> the >>>> > > august array of transport specialists on this issue. >>>> > > >>>> > > According to Demografia 2008, Hanoi is the second largest city of >>>> > > Vietnam with a population of 3 million with average population >>>> density >>>> > > of 154.5 persons/ha. According to global standards for rail based >>>> public >>>> > > transport, this is the only alternative available for meeting the >>>> demand >>>> > > - Tokyo, Hong Kong. Mumbai Moscow. (Dr. Kenworthy's work for UITP >>>> and >>>> WB >>>> > > in 1990s.). Hanoi is planning for a capacity of 28000 pphpd which >>>> works >>>> > > out as 467 000 trips/day which is low compared to likely demand with >>>> CBD >>>> > > densities (Job + >>>> > > population) exceeding 300 as in Mumbai where Mumbai Island has a >>>> density >>>> > > of 800/ha. >>>> > > >>>> > > Mumbai also had difficulties in acquiring land for Railways which >>>> was >>>> > > solved by promulgating TDR for the entire Mumbai Metropolitan Region >>>> > > with an estimated population of 21 million (17 million in 2001, 2011 >>>> > > census results are not yet out). It was an innovative solution first >>>> > > issued by local State Government in 1991 and now copied by other >>>> metros >>>> > > of India. Even US is having such rules in some cities with heavy >>>> rail. >>>> > > Vietnam has a technical collaboration agreement with India, since it >>>> was >>>> > > was united and IR has participated in some of their projects for >>>> > > Railways. >>>> > > Mumbai has a separate Joint sector Corporation Mumbai Rail Vikas >>>> > > Corporation undertaking Railway component of Mumbai Urban Transport >>>> > > Projects Jointly funder by IBRD, Indian Government (through IR) and >>>> > > Maharashtra Government. >>>> > > They are available at www.mrvc.indianrail.gov.in Sanctioned >>>> projects >>>> > > under execution are about 2 billion dollars. >>>> > > >>>> > > Members of the group needing additional information on Indian high >>>> > > capacity public transport systems can contact me and I will try my >>>> best >>>> > > to get it from original sources. IR uses wide bodied coaches 3667 mm >>>> and >>>> > > Dual traction system 1500 V. D.C. (under replacement) and 25 kV >>>> single >>>> > > phase 50 Hz system in Mumbai and other metropolitan areas. However >>>> Hanoi >>>> > > project as per data on the site quoted in the letter, mentions >>>> Chinese >>>> > > Government's aid for the project. >>>> > > >>>> > > Ho Chi Minh city in Vietnam has recently got Japanese aid for a >>>> Metro >>>> > > Rail System Project (Financed by the Japan Special Fund) under ADB >>>> aegis >>>> > > www.adb.org/projects/project.asp?id=39500. >>>> > > >>>> > > With regards. >>>> > > >>>> > > K. P. Padiyar >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > -------------------------------------------------- >>>> > > From: "AD" >>>> > > Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 5:56 PM >>>> > > To: >>>> > > Subject: [sustran] First urban railway route in Hanoi under >>>> construction >>>> > > >>>> > > > Source: >>>> > > > >>>> http://english.vietnamnet.vn/social/201009/First-urban-railway-route-i >>>> > > > n-Hanoi-under-construction-937891/ >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > Looking forward to see the fare and wonder how could they make it >>>> more >>>> > > >>>> > > > tempted than that of riding a motorcycle for people. >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > -------------------------------------------------------- >>>> > > > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >>>> > > > >>>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >>>> > > > >>>> > > > -------------------------------------------------------- >>>> > > > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >>>> > > > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join >>>> the >>>> > > real >>>> > > > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >>>> > > > >>>> > > > ================================================================ >>>> > > > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of >>>> people-centred, >>>> > > > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing >>>> > > countries >>>> > > > (the 'Global South'). >>>> > > > >>>> > > -------------------------------------------------------- >>>> > > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >>>> > > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >>>> > > >>>> > > -------------------------------------------------------- >>>> > > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >>>> > > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the >>>> real >>>> > > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >>>> > > >>>> > > ================================================================ >>>> > > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >>>> > > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing >>>> countries >>>> > > (the 'Global South'). >>>> > > -------------------------------------------------------- >>>> > > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >>>> > > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >>>> > > >>>> > > -------------------------------------------------------- >>>> > > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >>>> > > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the >>>> real >>>> > > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >>>> > > >>>> > > ================================================================ >>>> > > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >>>> > > equitable >>>> > > and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the >>>> > 'Global >>>> > > South'). >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > -------------------------------------------------------- >>>> > > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >>>> > > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >>>> > > >>>> > > -------------------------------------------------------- >>>> > > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >>>> > > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the >>>> real >>>> > > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >>>> > > >>>> > > ================================================================ >>>> > > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >>>> > > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing >>>> countries >>>> > > (the 'Global South'). >>>> > > >>>> > -------------------------------------------------------- >>>> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >>>> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >>>> > >>>> > -------------------------------------------------------- >>>> > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >>>> > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the >>>> real >>>> > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >>>> > >>>> > ================================================================ >>>> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >>>> > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing >>>> countries >>>> > (the 'Global South'). >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> *?..each million we invest into urban motorways is an investment >>>> to destroy the city?* >>>> >>>> Mayor Hans Joachim Vogel >>>> Munich 1970 >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> Sujit Patwardhan >>>> patwardhan.sujit@gmail.com >>>> sujitjp@gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> Yamuna, ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007, India >>>> Tel: +91 20 25537955 >>>> Cell: +91 98220 26627 >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> Parisar: www.parisar.org >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> -------------------------------------------------------- >>>> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >>>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------- >>>> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >>>> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the >>>> real >>>> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >>>> >>>> ================================================================ >>>> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >>>> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries >>>> (the 'Global South'). >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Cornie Huizenga >>> Joint Convener >>> Partnership on Sustainable, Low Carbon Transport >>> Mobile: +86 13901949332 >>> cornie.huizenga@slocatpartnership.org >>> www.slocat.net >>> -------------------------------------------------------- >>> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------- >>> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >>> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real >>> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >>> >>> ================================================================ >>> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >>> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries >>> (the 'Global South'). >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > -- > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > *?..each million we invest into urban motorways is an investment > to destroy the city?* > > Mayor Hans Joachim Vogel > Munich 1970 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Sujit Patwardhan > patwardhan.sujit@gmail.com > sujit@parisar.org > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yamuna, ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007, India > Tel: +91 20 25537955 > Cell: +91 98220 26627 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Parisar: www.parisar.org > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > From peebeebarter at gmail.com Wed Oct 6 07:43:30 2010 From: peebeebarter at gmail.com (Paul Barter) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 06:43:30 +0800 Subject: [sustran] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Parking_=28r=29evolution_in_Bogot=E1_199?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?8-2000?= Message-ID: The Reinventing Parking blog has just posted the first in a *guest series on parking policy in Bogot? by Carlosfelipe Pardo* (a regular here on sustran-discuss of course). *Parking (r)evolution in Bogot?: The Golden Era, 1998-2000* ( http://www.reinventingparking.org/2010/10/parking-revolution-in-bogota-golden-era.html ) Parking is missing from most accounts of Bogot??s urban revolution Much has been said about Enrique Pe?alosa?s ?urban revolution? when he was mayor of Bogot?, Colombia during 1998-2000. It is well known that he developed the world-renowned BRT system TransMilenio. It is also well known that he developed an aggressive agenda of public space recovery, sidewalk building and cycleway construction. However, little is known about the parking revolution that his administration also started. This series of posts will describe parking achievements and decisions in that era and since then. Today?s post focuses on key parking changes under Pe?alosa himself. Read the full article at http://www.reinventingparking.org/2010/10/parking-revolution-in-bogota-golden-era.html From cornie.huizenga at slocatpartnership.org Fri Oct 8 15:57:04 2010 From: cornie.huizenga at slocatpartnership.org (Cornie Huizenga) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 14:57:04 +0800 Subject: [sustran] JICA activities on transport Message-ID: Dear all, I am trying to find information on JICAs transport activities. While it is easy to find online references to individual projects I have found it more difficult to find: - comprehensive overview of JICA funded loans and TAs on transport (broken down by regio/country) - analysis of the portfolio on a sub-sector basis (e.g. road/ rail, or urban/rural) - JICA strategy or policy guiding their transport lending - external reviews of JICAs transport activities It would be great if you could share what you have. Cornie -- Cornie Huizenga Joint Convener Partnership on Sustainable, Low Carbon Transport Mobile: +86 13901949332 cornie.huizenga@slocatpartnership.org www.slocat.net From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Fri Oct 8 18:53:57 2010 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric britton) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 11:53:57 +0200 Subject: [sustran] =?utf-8?Q?Workshop_on_planning_a_Public_Bicycle_System_?= =?utf-8?B?4oCTIFB1bmU=?= Message-ID: <019e01cb66ce$bba4b1a0$32ee14e0$@britton@ecoplan.org> Dear Sujit and all concerned, A number of us are very interested in learning about how you are going about this in Pune. Do you think that you or someone else involved might be willing to do a good piece on this for World Streets and our planned new publication? That would be much appreciated, and the author may find some useful counsel in the section that appears in the top menu under Journal, Editorial Guidelines. Keep peddling Sujit. Eric From operations at velomondial.net Fri Oct 8 19:02:37 2010 From: operations at velomondial.net (Pascal van den Noort) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 12:02:37 +0200 Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Re:_[sustran]_Workshop_on_planning_a_Public_Bic?= =?windows-1252?Q?ycle_System_=96_Pune?= In-Reply-To: <019e01cb66ce$bba4b1a0$32ee14e0$@britton@ecoplan.org> References: <019e01cb66ce$bba4b1a0$32ee14e0$@britton@ecoplan.org> Message-ID: We would be very interested - in the context of our Safer BraIn project - to learn as much as we can from Pune. Pascal J.W. van den Noort Executive Director Velo Mondial operations@velomondial.net +31206270675 landline +31627055688 mobile phone Click here to follow Velo Mondial's Blog Visit Velo Mondial's blog here On Oct 8, 2010, at 11:53 AM, eric britton wrote: > Dear Sujit and all concerned, > > A number of us are very interested in learning about how you are going about this in Pune. Do you think that you or someone else involved might be willing to do a good piece on this for World Streets and our planned new publication? > > That would be much appreciated, and the author may find some useful counsel in the section that appears in the top menu under Journal, Editorial Guidelines. > > Keep peddling Sujit. > > Eric > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From kppadiyar at gmail.com Fri Oct 8 20:47:47 2010 From: kppadiyar at gmail.com (K P Padiyar) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 17:17:47 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: JICA activities on transport In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Ms Huizenga, In India, JICA has done project reports for Capital Projects funded by Japanese International Cooperation Aid.. To my knowledge, they have conducted project reports for increasing the capacity of Grand Trunk route from Delhi to Kolkata and recently the two Dedicated High speed Freight corridors . You can IR website www.indianrailways.gov.in and refer to Planning directorate for details on the projects done for IR. They have also carried out the project survey and acted as general consultants for DMRC whose website is www.delhimetrorail.com. I have generally downloaded their site and publications concerning their activities in MRTS and railways in India from their website www.jica.go.jp/english I understand they have also investigated some infrastructure projects for some metropolitan cities. I hope it can give you some leads. With regards, K.P.Padiyar -------------------------------------------------- From: "Cornie Huizenga" Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 12:27 PM To: Subject: [sustran] JICA activities on transport > Dear all, > > I am trying to find information on JICAs transport activities. While it is > easy to find online references to individual projects I have found it more > difficult to find: > > > - comprehensive overview of JICA funded loans and TAs on transport > (broken down by regio/country) > - analysis of the portfolio on a sub-sector basis (e.g. road/ rail, or > urban/rural) > - JICA strategy or policy guiding their transport lending > - external reviews of JICAs transport activities > > It would be great if you could share what you have. > > Cornie > > -- > Cornie Huizenga > Joint Convener > Partnership on Sustainable, Low Carbon Transport > Mobile: +86 13901949332 > cornie.huizenga@slocatpartnership.org > www.slocat.net > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Fri Oct 8 22:05:51 2010 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric britton) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 15:05:51 +0200 Subject: [sustran] [World Streets India vs. China: Which Low-Carbon Development Model Will Win? Message-ID: <022001cb66e9$8aab0cf0$a00126d0$@britton@ecoplan.org> This article appeared today in the Sierra Club's series by their chairman Carl Pope, "Taking the initiative". It is interesting to see how an American who has lived and worked in India in his youth sees the two models. Read more of this post - http://worldstreets.wordpress.com/2010/10/06/india-vs-china-which-low-carbon-development-model-will-win/ From Lwright at vivacities.org Sat Oct 9 10:13:35 2010 From: Lwright at vivacities.org (Lloyd Wright) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 09:13:35 +0800 Subject: [sustran] NMT mode share Message-ID: <000601cb674f$35364ee0$9fa2eca0$@org> Dear all, The Asian Development Bank (ADB) is currently investigating future scenarios for sustainable transport market penetration. This effort is part of a programme to develop new funding mechanisms. In order to conduct this analysis, ADB is seeking to establish baseline mode shares. While there is significant country and city specific mode share data on a vehicle-km or passenger-km basis for motorised modes, very little exists for non-motorised transport (NMT) modes. Instead, NMT mode share is typically expressed on a "per trip" basis. Both the Millennium Database of UITP and the various NMT mode share studies collected by CAI-Asia provide NMT data only on a "per trip" basis. We would like to request if anyone has any data for the following: 1. NMT mode share (walking, cycling, pedicabs, etc.) as a percentage of total distance travelled; or, 2. Average distance travelled per NMT trip; or, 3. Total average NMT distance travelled in a day. Ideally, this data would be for Asian cities, but at this stage, data from any city would be appreciated. Best regards, Lloyd Viva Changing the world...one street at a time. Lloyd Wright Executive Director Email: Lwright@vivacities.org Skype: vivacities From krishkaran at gmail.com Sat Oct 9 13:16:29 2010 From: krishkaran at gmail.com (krishna gopal) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 09:46:29 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: JICA activities on transport In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear All I had the opportunity to have a discussion with one JICA appointed consultants working on developing toolkits for BRT,NMT and other Transport related elements under the aegis of Ministry of Urban Development for the JnNURM programme. But nothing came ofn the public domain for the city administrators to make use of Regards On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 5:17 PM, K P Padiyar wrote: > Dear Ms Huizenga, > > In India, JICA has done project reports for Capital Projects funded by > Japanese International Cooperation Aid.. To my knowledge, they have > conducted project reports for increasing the capacity of Grand Trunk route > from Delhi to Kolkata and recently the two Dedicated High speed Freight > corridors . You can IR website www.indianrailways.gov.in and refer to > Planning directorate for details on the projects done for IR. > They have also carried out the project survey and acted as general > consultants for DMRC whose website is www.delhimetrorail.com. > I have generally downloaded their site and publications concerning their > activities in MRTS and railways in India from their website > www.jica.go.jp/english I understand they have also investigated some > infrastructure projects for some metropolitan cities. I hope it can give > you > some leads. > > With regards, > > K.P.Padiyar > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Cornie Huizenga" > Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 12:27 PM > To: > Subject: [sustran] JICA activities on transport > > > Dear all, > > > > I am trying to find information on JICAs transport activities. While it > is > > easy to find online references to individual projects I have found it > more > > difficult to find: > > > > > > - comprehensive overview of JICA funded loans and TAs on transport > > (broken down by regio/country) > > - analysis of the portfolio on a sub-sector basis (e.g. road/ rail, or > > urban/rural) > > - JICA strategy or policy guiding their transport lending > > - external reviews of JICAs transport activities > > > > It would be great if you could share what you have. > > > > Cornie > > > > -- > > Cornie Huizenga > > Joint Convener > > Partnership on Sustainable, Low Carbon Transport > > Mobile: +86 13901949332 > > cornie.huizenga@slocatpartnership.org > > www.slocat.net > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > > > ================================================================ > > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > > (the 'Global South'). > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > -- C.Krishnagopal Urban & Regional Planner Mobile: 91(0)9957557645 tweet http://twitter.com/krishkaran2009 ============================== "Think critically and get angry instead of resigning themselves to the "inertia" charecteristic of MODERN MAN"-JOSE SARAMAGO,Portuguese Nobel Laureate in Literature ============================== Please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to -SAVE TREES SAVE EARTH From phaizan at gmail.com Sat Oct 9 16:42:43 2010 From: phaizan at gmail.com (Faizan Jawed) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 13:12:43 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Games bus lanes may stay in Delhi Message-ID: Very surprising. -- *Games lanes may be here to stay* Gaurav Vivek Bhatnagar *Delhi Government takes note of their success* ------------------------------ * A similar system for future use may prove a boon for public buses and emergency vehicles Government may also overhaul the ramshackle metro feeder bus fleet * ------------------------------ NEW DELHI: The success of the Commonwealth Games lane in ensuring systematic movement of buses and other vehicles for delegates and players during the Games has made the Delhi Government sit up and take note. For these lanes have now thrown open the possibility of a similar system for future use in which public transport buses and other emergency vehicles can be provided a dedicated corridor without affecting other road-users much. ?The CWG lanes have been helping the buses meant for the Games to travel long distances in a short span of time. This is an encouraging sign. With about 6,500 buses now in the Delhi Transport Corporation fleet, expansion of a similar model across Delhi can really give a fillip to the public transportation,'' said a senior Delhi Government official. Incidentally, the new lane system which is also working due to fear of Rs.2,000 challans and imprisonment that its violation now entails has shown that rather than having a physically separated bus corridor, the lane system can work equally fine and with greater flexibility if the implementation is proper. With the BRT corridor in South Delhi coming in for a lot of criticism, and its extension to the north being little more than drawing of lanes on the road, the manner of implementation of the CWG lane has shown up some interesting possibilities. ?Will make public transport popular? ?A dedicated corridor for buses and other vehicles would definitely improve public transportation as it would help buses move faster. This, on the other hand, would also encourage more and more people to leave their personal vehicles and take the buses,'' said Delhi Transport Minister Arvinder Singh Lovely. Though a final decision in this direction would have to wait till the Games are over, Mr. Lovely said the Government would also like to find an alternative to the rickety Metro feeder buses. Having got the Blueline buses off many of the roads, the idea now is to streamline movement of public transport by getting these feeder buses replaced in a systematic manner. ?We also need to have air-conditioned and proper mini-buses on the roads to provide a better feeder service. Such a system would add to the public transport network and increase its popularity,'' he said. The Minister said while the DTC is at present operating 4,400 buses on the city routes, this number would swell following the Games when all 6,500-odd DTC buses would be available for duty. ?That should really encourage more people to take to public transport,'' he added. http://www.hindu.com/2010/10/09/stories/2010100960640400.htm From kppadiyar at gmail.com Sat Oct 9 19:09:35 2010 From: kppadiyar at gmail.com (K P Padiyar) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 15:39:35 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: NMT mode share In-Reply-To: <000601cb674f$35364ee0$9fa2eca0$@org> References: <000601cb674f$35364ee0$9fa2eca0$@org> Message-ID: Dear Mr. Wright, If you are interested in Fundamental theories, the following article is very interesting: Anthropological invariants in travel behavior - Marchetti - www.cesaremarchetti.org/archive/electronic/basic_instincts.pdf In India, we have GOI's "Report of the study group on alternative systems of urban transport. Feb. 1987 which gives in Table III 3, the assumed distance beyond which 50% trips will transfer to PT.: Walk 1 km, Bicycle 3 kms, 2 wheelers 7 km. It also gives Potential share transfer for other modes as follows : Car 10%, cycle rickshaw 25%, 3 wheelers 50% and Institutional 50%. It is not based on distance. Fig. III 4 gives the modal share of PT fror cities of different sizes. This data has been recently updated by MUD financed study "Traffic and Transportation Policies and Strategies in Urban Areas in India" www.urbanindia.nic.in/programme/ut/urban_transport.htm By M/s Wilbur Smith Associates of US. I have also got other documentation on the subject. If the above data does not meet your requirements, I can send them one by one. With regards and seasons' greetings, Yours Truly, K.P.Padiyar. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Lloyd Wright" Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 6:43 AM To: ; ; Subject: [sustran] NMT mode share > Dear all, > > > > The Asian Development Bank (ADB) is currently investigating future > scenarios > for sustainable transport market penetration. This effort is part of a > programme to develop new funding mechanisms. > > > > In order to conduct this analysis, ADB is seeking to establish baseline > mode > shares. While there is significant country and city specific mode share > data on a vehicle-km or passenger-km basis for motorised modes, very > little > exists for non-motorised transport (NMT) modes. > > > > Instead, NMT mode share is typically expressed on a "per trip" basis. > Both > the Millennium Database of UITP and the various NMT mode share studies > collected by CAI-Asia provide NMT data only on a "per trip" basis. > > > > We would like to request if anyone has any data for the following: > > > > 1. NMT mode share (walking, cycling, pedicabs, etc.) as a percentage > of total distance travelled; or, > > 2. Average distance travelled per NMT trip; or, > > 3. Total average NMT distance travelled in a day. > > > > Ideally, this data would be for Asian cities, but at this stage, data from > any city would be appreciated. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Lloyd > > > > Viva > > Changing the world...one street at a time. > > Lloyd Wright > > Executive Director > > Email: Lwright@vivacities.org > > Skype: vivacities > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > From kppadiyar at gmail.com Sun Oct 10 16:38:47 2010 From: kppadiyar at gmail.com (K P Padiyar) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 13:08:47 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: NMT mode share In-Reply-To: <000801cb67ad$d564d770$802e8650$@org> References: <000601cb674f$35364ee0$9fa2eca0$@org> <000801cb67ad$d564d770$802e8650$@org> Message-ID: Dear Mr. Wright, Mobility Budget is measured either in time spent in daily trips using Marchetti constant or Per capita mobility used by poorer countries with low ecological footprints like India. Use of Marchetti constant in sustainable transport is illustrated in Newman, Peter, & Kenworthy, Jeffrey. (2006). Urban Design to Reduce Automobile Dependence. Opolis, 2(1). http://www.escholarship.org/uc/item/2b76f089. We use per capita mobility and distribute it amongst available modes. Though no agreed basis exists, distribution is made as 60% PT (Road/rail) and 40% NMT and private vehicles. With road length of 0.6 m/capita, proportion of NMT predominates. HRT systems of Hong Kong and Tokyo, as per UITP, provide for a capacity of 8000 seat kms/capita/year which works out to roughly 40% of 20000 kms/capita year mobility planned by them. Current Indian mobility is around 10,000 pkm which is likely to rise to 13000 pkm/capita/annum by 2020. I presume the ADB will work on the millennium goals for sustainable development as adopted by UN. With regards, Yours Truly K.P.Padiyar. P.s. You might refer to article B : OVERVIEW OF URBANISATION TRENDS IN CHINA. RECENT PAST TRENDS. by Dr. E.G. Prior who was in Charge of Urban development of Hong Kong till recently. His strategies may apply to many countries facing rapid urbanisation like India. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Lloyd Wright" Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 6:00 PM To: "'K P Padiyar'" Subject: RE: [sustran] NMT mode share > Dear K P Padiyar, > > Many thanks. The Marchetti article is quite an interesting and > thought-provoking read. > > Although these materials did not directly answer my question, as I read > through the documents, I did have a thought on how I can proceed. I can > take some of the typical distances from the February 1987 report and use > my > existing data on the number of trips to make an estimate. > > Your help is most appreciated. > > Best regards, > > Lloyd > > From kppadiyar at gmail.com Sun Oct 10 16:42:12 2010 From: kppadiyar at gmail.com (K P Padiyar) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 13:12:12 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: NMT mode share In-Reply-To: <000801cb67ad$d564d770$802e8650$@org> References: <000601cb674f$35364ee0$9fa2eca0$@org> <000801cb67ad$d564d770$802e8650$@org> Message-ID: Dear Mr. Wright, Mobility Budget is measured either in time spent in daily trips using Marchetti constant or Per capita mobility used by poorer countries with low ecological footprints like India. Use of Marchetti constant in sustainable transport is illustrated in Newman, Peter, & Kenworthy, Jeffrey. (2006). Urban Design to Reduce Automobile Dependence. Opolis, 2(1). http://www.escholarship.org/uc/item/2b76f089. We use per capita mobility and distribute it amongst available modes. Though no agreed basis exists, distribution is made as 60% PT (Road/rail) and 40% NMT and private vehicles. With road length of 0.6 m/capita, proportion of NMT predominates. HRT systems of Hong Kong and Tokyo, as per UITP, provide for a capacity of 8000 seat kms/capita/year which works out to roughly 40% of 20000 kms/capita year mobility planned by them. Current Indian mobility is around 10,000 pkm which is likely to rise to 13000 pkm/capita/annum by 2020. I presume the ADB will work on the millennium goals for sustainable development as adopted by UN. With regards, Yours Truly K.P.Padiyar. P.s. You might refer to article B : OVERVIEW OF URBANISATION TRENDS IN CHINA. RECENT PAST TRENDS. by Dr. E.G. Prior who was in Charge of Urban development of Hong Kong till recently. His strategies may apply to many countries facing rapid urbanisation like India. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Lloyd Wright" Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 6:00 PM To: "'K P Padiyar'" Subject: RE: [sustran] NMT mode share > Dear K P Padiyar, > > Many thanks. The Marchetti article is quite an interesting and > thought-provoking read. > > Although these materials did not directly answer my question, as I read > through the documents, I did have a thought on how I can proceed. I can > take some of the typical distances from the February 1987 report and use > my > existing data on the number of trips to make an estimate. > > Your help is most appreciated. > > Best regards, > > Lloyd > > From datar.ashok at gmail.com Sun Oct 10 19:29:51 2010 From: datar.ashok at gmail.com (ashok datar) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 15:59:51 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: Games bus lanes may stay in Delhi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: it is time that we take BRTS as a serious option. discipline and fair use of limited road space is possible and desirable and let us not waste time and keep on discussing this system should be considered in all its variants for mumbai On 10/9/10, Faizan Jawed wrote: > Very surprising. > > > -- > > > *Games lanes may be here to stay* > > Gaurav Vivek Bhatnagar > > *Delhi Government takes note of their success* > > ------------------------------ > * > > A similar system for future use may prove a boon for public buses and > emergency vehicles > > Government may also overhaul the ramshackle metro feeder bus fleet > * > ------------------------------ > > NEW DELHI: The success of the Commonwealth Games lane in ensuring systematic > movement of buses and other vehicles for delegates and players during the > Games has made the Delhi Government sit up and take note. > > For these lanes have now thrown open the possibility of a similar system for > future use in which public transport buses and other emergency vehicles can > be provided a dedicated corridor without affecting other road-users much. > > ?The CWG lanes have been helping the buses meant for the Games to travel > long distances in a short span of time. This is an encouraging sign. With > about 6,500 buses now in the Delhi Transport Corporation fleet, expansion of > a similar model across Delhi can really give a fillip to the public > transportation,'' said a senior Delhi Government official. > > Incidentally, the new lane system which is also working due to fear of > Rs.2,000 challans and imprisonment that its violation now entails has shown > that rather than having a physically separated bus corridor, the lane system > can work equally fine and with greater flexibility if the implementation is > proper. > > With the BRT corridor in South Delhi coming in for a lot of criticism, and > its extension to the north being little more than drawing of lanes on the > road, the manner of implementation of the CWG lane has shown up some > interesting possibilities. > > ?Will make public transport popular? > > ?A dedicated corridor for buses and other vehicles would definitely improve > public transportation as it would help buses move faster. This, on the other > hand, would also encourage more and more people to leave their personal > vehicles and take the buses,'' said Delhi Transport Minister Arvinder Singh > Lovely. > > Though a final decision in this direction would have to wait till the Games > are over, Mr. Lovely said the Government would also like to find an > alternative to the rickety Metro feeder buses. > > Having got the Blueline buses off many of the roads, the idea now is to > streamline movement of public transport by getting these feeder buses > replaced in a systematic manner. > > ?We also need to have air-conditioned and proper mini-buses on the roads to > provide a better feeder service. Such a system would add to the public > transport network and increase its popularity,'' he said. > > The Minister said while the DTC is at present operating 4,400 buses on the > city routes, this number would swell following the Games when all 6,500-odd > DTC buses would be available for duty. ?That should really encourage more > people to take to public transport,'' he added. > > http://www.hindu.com/2010/10/09/stories/2010100960640400.htm > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > -- Ashok R.Datar Mumbai Environmental Social Network 20 Madhavi, Makarand Society, S.V.S.Marg, Mahim-400 016 98676 65107/0222 444 9212 see our website : www.mesn.org * I hear, then I forget. I see, then I remember. I do, then I understand.* From phaizan at gmail.com Sun Oct 10 19:32:06 2010 From: phaizan at gmail.com (Faizan Jawed) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 16:02:06 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: Games bus lanes may stay in Delhi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I couldn't agree more with you. Could you please update us with the latest on the Mumbai BRTS? Is it going anywhere? Thanks. Faizan On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 3:59 PM, ashok datar wrote: > it is time that we take BRTS as a serious option. > discipline and fair use of limited road space is possible and > desirable and let us not waste time and keep on discussing > this system should be considered in all its variants for mumbai > > On 10/9/10, Faizan Jawed wrote: > > Very surprising. > > > > > > -- > > > > > > *Games lanes may be here to stay* > > > > Gaurav Vivek Bhatnagar > > > > *Delhi Government takes note of their success* > > > > ------------------------------ > > * > > > > A similar system for future use may prove a boon for public buses and > > emergency vehicles > > > > Government may also overhaul the ramshackle metro feeder bus fleet > > * > > ------------------------------ > > > > NEW DELHI: The success of the Commonwealth Games lane in ensuring > systematic > > movement of buses and other vehicles for delegates and players during the > > Games has made the Delhi Government sit up and take note. > > > > For these lanes have now thrown open the possibility of a similar system > for > > future use in which public transport buses and other emergency vehicles > can > > be provided a dedicated corridor without affecting other road-users much. > > > > ?The CWG lanes have been helping the buses meant for the Games to travel > > long distances in a short span of time. This is an encouraging sign. With > > about 6,500 buses now in the Delhi Transport Corporation fleet, expansion > of > > a similar model across Delhi can really give a fillip to the public > > transportation,'' said a senior Delhi Government official. > > > > Incidentally, the new lane system which is also working due to fear of > > Rs.2,000 challans and imprisonment that its violation now entails has > shown > > that rather than having a physically separated bus corridor, the lane > system > > can work equally fine and with greater flexibility if the implementation > is > > proper. > > > > With the BRT corridor in South Delhi coming in for a lot of criticism, > and > > its extension to the north being little more than drawing of lanes on the > > road, the manner of implementation of the CWG lane has shown up some > > interesting possibilities. > > > > ?Will make public transport popular? > > > > ?A dedicated corridor for buses and other vehicles would definitely > improve > > public transportation as it would help buses move faster. This, on the > other > > hand, would also encourage more and more people to leave their personal > > vehicles and take the buses,'' said Delhi Transport Minister Arvinder > Singh > > Lovely. > > > > Though a final decision in this direction would have to wait till the > Games > > are over, Mr. Lovely said the Government would also like to find an > > alternative to the rickety Metro feeder buses. > > > > Having got the Blueline buses off many of the roads, the idea now is to > > streamline movement of public transport by getting these feeder buses > > replaced in a systematic manner. > > > > ?We also need to have air-conditioned and proper mini-buses on the roads > to > > provide a better feeder service. Such a system would add to the public > > transport network and increase its popularity,'' he said. > > > > The Minister said while the DTC is at present operating 4,400 buses on > the > > city routes, this number would swell following the Games when all > 6,500-odd > > DTC buses would be available for duty. ?That should really encourage more > > people to take to public transport,'' he added. > > > > http://www.hindu.com/2010/10/09/stories/2010100960640400.htm > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > > > ================================================================ > > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > > (the 'Global South'). > > > > > -- > Ashok R.Datar > Mumbai Environmental Social Network > 20 Madhavi, Makarand Society, S.V.S.Marg, Mahim-400 016 > 98676 65107/0222 444 9212 see our website : www.mesn.org > * I hear, then I forget. I see, then I remember. I do, then I understand.* > From whook at itdp.org Mon Oct 11 00:04:17 2010 From: whook at itdp.org (Walter Hook) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 11:04:17 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: NMT mode share In-Reply-To: <000601cb674f$35364ee0$9fa2eca0$@org> References: <000601cb674f$35364ee0$9fa2eca0$@org> Message-ID: because the way walking trips are calculated varies extremely widely, it is generally a good idea to keep two separate numbers, one that includes walking trips and ones that do not, and the numbers that do not (it is easier to include bicycle), will tend to be more comparable. On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 9:13 PM, Lloyd Wright wrote: > Dear all, > > > > The Asian Development Bank (ADB) is currently investigating future > scenarios > for sustainable transport market penetration. This effort is part of a > programme to develop new funding mechanisms. > > > > In order to conduct this analysis, ADB is seeking to establish baseline > mode > shares. While there is significant country and city specific mode share > data on a vehicle-km or passenger-km basis for motorised modes, very little > exists for non-motorised transport (NMT) modes. > > > > Instead, NMT mode share is typically expressed on a "per trip" basis. Both > the Millennium Database of UITP and the various NMT mode share studies > collected by CAI-Asia provide NMT data only on a "per trip" basis. > > > > We would like to request if anyone has any data for the following: > > > > 1. NMT mode share (walking, cycling, pedicabs, etc.) as a percentage > of total distance travelled; or, > > 2. Average distance travelled per NMT trip; or, > > 3. Total average NMT distance travelled in a day. > > > > Ideally, this data would be for Asian cities, but at this stage, data from > any city would be appreciated. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Lloyd > > > > Viva > > Changing the world...one street at a time. > > Lloyd Wright > > Executive Director > > Email: Lwright@vivacities.org > > Skype: vivacities > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > -- Walter Hook Executive Director Institute for Transportation and Development Policy 9 East 19th Street, 7th Floor New York, NY 10003 1-212-629-8001 www.itdp.org Promoting sustainable and equitable transportation worldwide. From datar.ashok at gmail.com Mon Oct 11 01:01:51 2010 From: datar.ashok at gmail.com (ashok datar) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 21:31:51 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: Games bus lanes may stay in Delhi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We are doing a small actionable study on JVLR within next three months. we believe that this 10 km link has not very high traffic volume today. It does not have many right or left turns ( only three , can u believe it ?) the footpaths are very wide - min 6 meters to 10 meters and there is a good possibility to provide recessed bus stops and hence we can experiment with DBL and first focus on whether we can provide high frequency reliable service with sensible routing would welcome ideas and suggestions we feel that something like Delhi is worth trying thru focussing on discipline we are obviously not anti to center lane fully engineered BRTS and would welcome debate our idea is to prevent misuse of footpaths which are not mostly encroached and this will prevent that we are working with BEST and MMRDA on this and would love to see something sensible can happen in few months bus lanes in CWG are encouraging us and would like to know more about them ashok datar On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 4:02 PM, Faizan Jawed wrote: > I couldn't agree more with you. Could you please update us with the latest > on the Mumbai BRTS? Is it going anywhere? > > Thanks. > > Faizan > > > > On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 3:59 PM, ashok datar wrote: > >> it is time that we take BRTS as a serious option. >> discipline and fair use of limited road space is possible and >> desirable and let us not waste time and keep on discussing >> this system should be considered in all its variants for mumbai >> >> On 10/9/10, Faizan Jawed wrote: >> > Very surprising. >> > >> > >> > -- >> > >> > >> > *Games lanes may be here to stay* >> > >> > Gaurav Vivek Bhatnagar >> > >> > *Delhi Government takes note of their success* >> > >> > ------------------------------ >> > * >> > >> > A similar system for future use may prove a boon for public buses and >> > emergency vehicles >> > >> > Government may also overhaul the ramshackle metro feeder bus fleet >> > * >> > ------------------------------ >> > >> > NEW DELHI: The success of the Commonwealth Games lane in ensuring >> systematic >> > movement of buses and other vehicles for delegates and players during >> the >> > Games has made the Delhi Government sit up and take note. >> > >> > For these lanes have now thrown open the possibility of a similar system >> for >> > future use in which public transport buses and other emergency vehicles >> can >> > be provided a dedicated corridor without affecting other road-users >> much. >> > >> > ?The CWG lanes have been helping the buses meant for the Games to travel >> > long distances in a short span of time. This is an encouraging sign. >> With >> > about 6,500 buses now in the Delhi Transport Corporation fleet, >> expansion of >> > a similar model across Delhi can really give a fillip to the public >> > transportation,'' said a senior Delhi Government official. >> > >> > Incidentally, the new lane system which is also working due to fear of >> > Rs.2,000 challans and imprisonment that its violation now entails has >> shown >> > that rather than having a physically separated bus corridor, the lane >> system >> > can work equally fine and with greater flexibility if the implementation >> is >> > proper. >> > >> > With the BRT corridor in South Delhi coming in for a lot of criticism, >> and >> > its extension to the north being little more than drawing of lanes on >> the >> > road, the manner of implementation of the CWG lane has shown up some >> > interesting possibilities. >> > >> > ?Will make public transport popular? >> > >> > ?A dedicated corridor for buses and other vehicles would definitely >> improve >> > public transportation as it would help buses move faster. This, on the >> other >> > hand, would also encourage more and more people to leave their personal >> > vehicles and take the buses,'' said Delhi Transport Minister Arvinder >> Singh >> > Lovely. >> > >> > Though a final decision in this direction would have to wait till the >> Games >> > are over, Mr. Lovely said the Government would also like to find an >> > alternative to the rickety Metro feeder buses. >> > >> > Having got the Blueline buses off many of the roads, the idea now is to >> > streamline movement of public transport by getting these feeder buses >> > replaced in a systematic manner. >> > >> > ?We also need to have air-conditioned and proper mini-buses on the roads >> to >> > provide a better feeder service. Such a system would add to the public >> > transport network and increase its popularity,'' he said. >> > >> > The Minister said while the DTC is at present operating 4,400 buses on >> the >> > city routes, this number would swell following the Games when all >> 6,500-odd >> > DTC buses would be available for duty. ?That should really encourage >> more >> > people to take to public transport,'' he added. >> > >> > http://www.hindu.com/2010/10/09/stories/2010100960640400.htm >> > -------------------------------------------------------- >> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >> > >> > -------------------------------------------------------- >> > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >> > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the >> real >> > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >> > >> > ================================================================ >> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries >> > (the 'Global South'). >> > >> >> >> -- >> Ashok R.Datar >> Mumbai Environmental Social Network >> 20 Madhavi, Makarand Society, S.V.S.Marg, Mahim-400 016 >> 98676 65107/0222 444 9212 see our website : www.mesn.org >> * I hear, then I forget. I see, then I remember. I do, then I >> understand.* >> > > > -- Ashok R.Datar Mumbai Environmental Social Network 20 Madhavi, Makarand Society, S.V.S.Marg, Mahim-400 016 98676 65107/0222 444 9212 see our website : www.mesn.org * I hear, then I forget. I see, then I remember. I do, then I understand.* From alok.priyanka at gmail.com Mon Oct 11 14:41:40 2010 From: alok.priyanka at gmail.com (Jains) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 11:11:40 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: Games bus lanes may stay in Delhi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: While the idea of bus lanes on JVLR is quite good, as a daily user of this road I can't agree to the assertion that traffic volume on this is not high. This road remains congested for most part of the day. For the bus lanes to work on this, a high degree of discipline on part of bus drivers would also be needed. Currently BEST buses have the tendency to stop right in the middle of two lanes and pick-up / drop-off and bullying their way through. Footpath are non-existent in many parts forcing pedestrians to walk on the street. There are no proper pedestrian crossings forcing the community living on both sides to just run across the eight lanes of highway. If the DBL has to work, it should be well-planned, well-thought approach not the same way as Delhi planned their first BRT line, which despite a high usage is marred with glaring design oversights and hence did not gain much currency for future expansion. I recently saw Pune BRT as well and I must say that I failed to get impressed with it. Bold effort, yes but certainly not the most beautiful (in a certainly beautiful city). What we fail to understand often is that proof of the pudding is in eating. A system can be both good or bad depending on how it is finally delivered and serves the purpose. Are we designing cheap system for the poor or value for money system for all? If we go for the former, we can never get the cars off the road!!! Have a good day. Alok On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 9:31 PM, ashok datar wrote: > We are doing a small actionable study on JVLR within next three months. > we believe that this 10 km link has not very high traffic volume today. It > does not have many right or left turns ( only three , can u believe it ?) > the footpaths are very wide - min 6 meters to 10 meters and there is a good > possibility to provide recessed bus stops and hence we can experiment with > DBL > and first focus on whether we can provide high frequency reliable service > with sensible routing > would welcome ideas and suggestions > we feel that something like Delhi is worth trying thru focussing on > discipline > we are obviously not anti to center lane fully engineered BRTS > and would welcome debate > our idea is to prevent misuse of footpaths which are not mostly encroached > and this will prevent that > we are working with BEST and MMRDA on this and would love to see something > sensible can happen in few months > bus lanes in CWG are encouraging us > and would like to know more about them > ashok datar > > On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 4:02 PM, Faizan Jawed wrote: > > > I couldn't agree more with you. Could you please update us with the > latest > > on the Mumbai BRTS? Is it going anywhere? > > > > Thanks. > > > > Faizan > > > > > > > > On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 3:59 PM, ashok datar >wrote: > > > >> it is time that we take BRTS as a serious option. > >> discipline and fair use of limited road space is possible and > >> desirable and let us not waste time and keep on discussing > >> this system should be considered in all its variants for mumbai > >> > >> On 10/9/10, Faizan Jawed wrote: > >> > Very surprising. > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > > >> > > >> > *Games lanes may be here to stay* > >> > > >> > Gaurav Vivek Bhatnagar > >> > > >> > *Delhi Government takes note of their success* > >> > > >> > ------------------------------ > >> > * > >> > > >> > A similar system for future use may prove a boon for public buses and > >> > emergency vehicles > >> > > >> > Government may also overhaul the ramshackle metro feeder bus fleet > >> > * > >> > ------------------------------ > >> > > >> > NEW DELHI: The success of the Commonwealth Games lane in ensuring > >> systematic > >> > movement of buses and other vehicles for delegates and players during > >> the > >> > Games has made the Delhi Government sit up and take note. > >> > > >> > For these lanes have now thrown open the possibility of a similar > system > >> for > >> > future use in which public transport buses and other emergency > vehicles > >> can > >> > be provided a dedicated corridor without affecting other road-users > >> much. > >> > > >> > ?The CWG lanes have been helping the buses meant for the Games to > travel > >> > long distances in a short span of time. This is an encouraging sign. > >> With > >> > about 6,500 buses now in the Delhi Transport Corporation fleet, > >> expansion of > >> > a similar model across Delhi can really give a fillip to the public > >> > transportation,'' said a senior Delhi Government official. > >> > > >> > Incidentally, the new lane system which is also working due to fear of > >> > Rs.2,000 challans and imprisonment that its violation now entails has > >> shown > >> > that rather than having a physically separated bus corridor, the lane > >> system > >> > can work equally fine and with greater flexibility if the > implementation > >> is > >> > proper. > >> > > >> > With the BRT corridor in South Delhi coming in for a lot of criticism, > >> and > >> > its extension to the north being little more than drawing of lanes on > >> the > >> > road, the manner of implementation of the CWG lane has shown up some > >> > interesting possibilities. > >> > > >> > ?Will make public transport popular? > >> > > >> > ?A dedicated corridor for buses and other vehicles would definitely > >> improve > >> > public transportation as it would help buses move faster. This, on the > >> other > >> > hand, would also encourage more and more people to leave their > personal > >> > vehicles and take the buses,'' said Delhi Transport Minister Arvinder > >> Singh > >> > Lovely. > >> > > >> > Though a final decision in this direction would have to wait till the > >> Games > >> > are over, Mr. Lovely said the Government would also like to find an > >> > alternative to the rickety Metro feeder buses. > >> > > >> > Having got the Blueline buses off many of the roads, the idea now is > to > >> > streamline movement of public transport by getting these feeder buses > >> > replaced in a systematic manner. > >> > > >> > ?We also need to have air-conditioned and proper mini-buses on the > roads > >> to > >> > provide a better feeder service. Such a system would add to the public > >> > transport network and increase its popularity,'' he said. > >> > > >> > The Minister said while the DTC is at present operating 4,400 buses on > >> the > >> > city routes, this number would swell following the Games when all > >> 6,500-odd > >> > DTC buses would be available for duty. ?That should really encourage > >> more > >> > people to take to public transport,'' he added. > >> > > >> > http://www.hindu.com/2010/10/09/stories/2010100960640400.htm > >> > -------------------------------------------------------- > >> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > >> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > >> > > >> > -------------------------------------------------------- > >> > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > >> > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the > >> real > >> > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > >> > > >> > ================================================================ > >> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > >> > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing > countries > >> > (the 'Global South'). > >> > > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Ashok R.Datar > >> Mumbai Environmental Social Network > >> 20 Madhavi, Makarand Society, S.V.S.Marg, Mahim-400 016 > >> 98676 65107/0222 444 9212 see our website : www.mesn.org > >> * I hear, then I forget. I see, then I remember. I do, then I > >> understand.* > >> > > > > > > > > > -- > Ashok R.Datar > Mumbai Environmental Social Network > 20 Madhavi, Makarand Society, S.V.S.Marg, Mahim-400 016 > 98676 65107/0222 444 9212 see our website : www.mesn.org > * I hear, then I forget. I see, then I remember. I do, then I understand.* > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > From datar.ashok at gmail.com Tue Oct 12 03:21:19 2010 From: datar.ashok at gmail.com (ashok datar) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 23:51:19 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: Games bus lanes may stay in Delhi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: many thanks we are going to start the study next week on how to improve routing on this route so that users can get a bus every minute or so. by working out a common route called corridor route - a concept developed by BEST which makes high frequency possible for most common destinations. we need to give a special identify to such buses all over the city a name and a logo which is visible from long distance and which will provide service between one per min in peak time to one for every 90 and 120 min other times cn u pl provide the timing a bus requires to compolete one half round trip looking forward to a weekly meeting at ur vadala or perhaps Marol depot once a week to review the progress ashok datar On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 11:11 AM, Jains wrote: > While the idea of bus lanes on JVLR is quite good, as a daily user of this > road I can't agree to the assertion that traffic volume on this is not high. > This road remains congested for most part of the day. For the bus lanes to > work on this, a high degree of discipline on part of bus drivers would also > be needed. Currently BEST buses have the tendency to stop right in the > middle of two lanes and pick-up / drop-off and bullying their way > through. Footpath are non-existent in many parts forcing pedestrians to walk > on the street. There are no proper pedestrian crossings forcing the > community living on both sides to just run across the eight lanes of > highway. > > If the DBL has to work, it should be well-planned, well-thought approach > not the same way as Delhi planned their first BRT line, which despite a high > usage is marred with glaring design oversights and hence did not gain much > currency for future expansion. I recently saw Pune BRT as well and I must > say that I failed to get impressed with it. Bold effort, yes but certainly > not the most beautiful (in a certainly beautiful city). > > What we fail to understand often is that proof of the pudding is in eating. > A system can be both good or bad depending on how it is finally delivered > and serves the purpose. Are we designing cheap system for the poor or value > for money system for all? If we go for the former, we can never get the cars > off the road!!! > > Have a good day. > Alok > > On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 9:31 PM, ashok datar wrote: > >> We are doing a small actionable study on JVLR within next three months. >> we believe that this 10 km link has not very high traffic volume today. It >> does not have many right or left turns ( only three , can u believe it ?) >> the footpaths are very wide - min 6 meters to 10 meters and there is a >> good >> possibility to provide recessed bus stops and hence we can experiment with >> DBL >> and first focus on whether we can provide high frequency reliable service >> with sensible routing >> would welcome ideas and suggestions >> we feel that something like Delhi is worth trying thru focussing on >> discipline >> we are obviously not anti to center lane fully engineered BRTS >> and would welcome debate >> our idea is to prevent misuse of footpaths which are not mostly encroached >> and this will prevent that >> we are working with BEST and MMRDA on this and would love to see something >> sensible can happen in few months >> bus lanes in CWG are encouraging us >> and would like to know more about them >> ashok datar >> >> On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 4:02 PM, Faizan Jawed wrote: >> >> > I couldn't agree more with you. Could you please update us with the >> latest >> > on the Mumbai BRTS? Is it going anywhere? >> > >> > Thanks. >> > >> > Faizan >> > >> > >> > >> > On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 3:59 PM, ashok datar > >wrote: >> > >> >> it is time that we take BRTS as a serious option. >> >> discipline and fair use of limited road space is possible and >> >> desirable and let us not waste time and keep on discussing >> >> this system should be considered in all its variants for mumbai >> >> >> >> On 10/9/10, Faizan Jawed wrote: >> >> > Very surprising. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > *Games lanes may be here to stay* >> >> > >> >> > Gaurav Vivek Bhatnagar >> >> > >> >> > *Delhi Government takes note of their success* >> >> > >> >> > ------------------------------ >> >> > * >> >> > >> >> > A similar system for future use may prove a boon for public buses and >> >> > emergency vehicles >> >> > >> >> > Government may also overhaul the ramshackle metro feeder bus fleet >> >> > * >> >> > ------------------------------ >> >> > >> >> > NEW DELHI: The success of the Commonwealth Games lane in ensuring >> >> systematic >> >> > movement of buses and other vehicles for delegates and players during >> >> the >> >> > Games has made the Delhi Government sit up and take note. >> >> > >> >> > For these lanes have now thrown open the possibility of a similar >> system >> >> for >> >> > future use in which public transport buses and other emergency >> vehicles >> >> can >> >> > be provided a dedicated corridor without affecting other road-users >> >> much. >> >> > >> >> > ?The CWG lanes have been helping the buses meant for the Games to >> travel >> >> > long distances in a short span of time. This is an encouraging sign. >> >> With >> >> > about 6,500 buses now in the Delhi Transport Corporation fleet, >> >> expansion of >> >> > a similar model across Delhi can really give a fillip to the public >> >> > transportation,'' said a senior Delhi Government official. >> >> > >> >> > Incidentally, the new lane system which is also working due to fear >> of >> >> > Rs.2,000 challans and imprisonment that its violation now entails has >> >> shown >> >> > that rather than having a physically separated bus corridor, the lane >> >> system >> >> > can work equally fine and with greater flexibility if the >> implementation >> >> is >> >> > proper. >> >> > >> >> > With the BRT corridor in South Delhi coming in for a lot of >> criticism, >> >> and >> >> > its extension to the north being little more than drawing of lanes on >> >> the >> >> > road, the manner of implementation of the CWG lane has shown up some >> >> > interesting possibilities. >> >> > >> >> > ?Will make public transport popular? >> >> > >> >> > ?A dedicated corridor for buses and other vehicles would definitely >> >> improve >> >> > public transportation as it would help buses move faster. This, on >> the >> >> other >> >> > hand, would also encourage more and more people to leave their >> personal >> >> > vehicles and take the buses,'' said Delhi Transport Minister Arvinder >> >> Singh >> >> > Lovely. >> >> > >> >> > Though a final decision in this direction would have to wait till the >> >> Games >> >> > are over, Mr. Lovely said the Government would also like to find an >> >> > alternative to the rickety Metro feeder buses. >> >> > >> >> > Having got the Blueline buses off many of the roads, the idea now is >> to >> >> > streamline movement of public transport by getting these feeder buses >> >> > replaced in a systematic manner. >> >> > >> >> > ?We also need to have air-conditioned and proper mini-buses on the >> roads >> >> to >> >> > provide a better feeder service. Such a system would add to the >> public >> >> > transport network and increase its popularity,'' he said. >> >> > >> >> > The Minister said while the DTC is at present operating 4,400 buses >> on >> >> the >> >> > city routes, this number would swell following the Games when all >> >> 6,500-odd >> >> > DTC buses would be available for duty. ?That should really encourage >> >> more >> >> > people to take to public transport,'' he added. >> >> > >> >> > http://www.hindu.com/2010/10/09/stories/2010100960640400.htm >> >> > -------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >> >> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >> >> > >> >> > -------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >> >> > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the >> >> real >> >> > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >> >> > >> >> > ================================================================ >> >> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> >> > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing >> countries >> >> > (the 'Global South'). >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Ashok R.Datar >> >> Mumbai Environmental Social Network >> >> 20 Madhavi, Makarand Society, S.V.S.Marg, Mahim-400 016 >> >> 98676 65107/0222 444 9212 see our website : www.mesn.org >> >> * I hear, then I forget. I see, then I remember. I do, then I >> >> understand.* >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> -- >> Ashok R.Datar >> Mumbai Environmental Social Network >> 20 Madhavi, Makarand Society, S.V.S.Marg, Mahim-400 016 >> 98676 65107/0222 444 9212 see our website : www.mesn.org >> * I hear, then I forget. I see, then I remember. I do, then I >> understand.* >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real >> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >> >> ================================================================ >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries >> (the 'Global South'). >> > > -- Ashok R.Datar Mumbai Environmental Social Network 20 Madhavi, Makarand Society, S.V.S.Marg, Mahim-400 016 98676 65107/0222 444 9212 see our website : www.mesn.org * I hear, then I forget. I see, then I remember. I do, then I understand.* From yanivbin at gmail.com Tue Oct 12 17:07:05 2010 From: yanivbin at gmail.com (Vinay Baindur) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 13:37:05 +0530 Subject: [sustran] No respite from bone-rattling rides Message-ID: *Date:12/10/2010* *URL: http://www.thehindu.com/2010/10/12/stories/2010101257740200.htm* ------------------------------ Andhra Pradesh *No respite from bone-rattling rides* Civic authorities in the State capital appear to have mastered the art of procrastination. When the twin cities received bountiful rains last month, the condition of many of the internal and main roads had worsened so much that there was an instant public uproar. The authorities, who went on dilly-dallying in their decision to repair the roads, took up patch works to some extent. Their assurance was that they would take up re-carpeting of roads once the rains stopped. Well! The rains did stop, but now none seemed to remember their earlier assurance of re-carpeting the roads. The joy of driving on relatively better roads appears only to be a distant dream and the common man continues to put up with bad roads. Strange is the short memory of the elected representatives who do not seem to be bothered about the road conditions now. Perhaps, the ?neta log' just like the ?babudom' travel in sports utility vehicles which can take the strain of travelling on worst roads yet offer excellent comfort to the travellers so much so that they fail to experience the bone-rattling rides. Shouldn't they be forced to travel in city buses and auto rickshaws like ?aam janta' to make them feel the stress? Power cuts can be annoying but at times they can give relief from the marathon speeches at functions. This was pointed out by none other than former Finance Secretary B.P.R. Vithal. He was invited as a chief guest to release a booklet on ?Hyderabad's Elevated Metro Rail ? the undoing of the city and its public transport' by Citizens for a Better Public Transportation. After the dignitaries delivered their lectures, Mr. Vithal was invited to address the gathering. While he was about to begin his speech, the auditorium plunged into darkness following disruption in power supply. ?This is a good ploy to restrict dignitaries from delivering lengthy speeches,? said Mr. Vithal, leaving the audience in splits. It was fruity talk all the way at the inaugural of ?Seetaphal Show 2010' recently. Additional Secretary of Agriculture and former Joint Collector N. Mukteshwar Rao had everyone guessing when he uttered the term ?fruiterian'. Agriculture Production Commissioner A.K. Goel who was by his side, bemusedly demystified it saying, ?He means those who eat fruits.? Mr. Rao was not done yet with his fruit propaganda. ?We take frunch,? he said, ?We don't take lunch!? Belly laughs followed from the assembled ?fruiterians'. The custard apples present not far away might have blushed too. Police often boast of cracking complex cases in short time. Strangely, they take unusually long time in finalising what looks like open and shut cases. A classic example is that of alleged misbehaviour of Kushaiguda Inspector with a woman protestor a fortnight ago. The woman protestor cited visuals aired by TV news channels showing the then Inspector T. Manohar Reddy manhandling her to substantiate her charge. The Alwal DCP inquired and submitted a report immediately. The Cyberabad police higher-ups, however, for some inexplicable reasons, have not yet come to a conclusion if the Inspector was at fault or the complainant made false allegation. Does that mean this is the most intriguing case they ever faced? K. SRINIVAS REDDY, S. SANDEEP KUMAR, YOGENDRA KALAVALAPALLI, MARRI RAMU From hghazali at gmail.com Wed Oct 13 01:48:00 2010 From: hghazali at gmail.com (Hassaan Ghazali) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 21:48:00 +0500 Subject: [sustran] Op-ed on public transport Message-ID: Attached is my op-ed which appeared in "Pakistan Today" dated 12 Oct, 2010 Hassaan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: art1pak2day_0002.tif Type: image/tiff Size: 132715 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20101012/036314c0/art1pak2day_0002-0001.tif From navdeep.asija at gmail.com Wed Oct 13 02:32:35 2010 From: navdeep.asija at gmail.com (Asija, Navdeep) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 23:02:35 +0530 Subject: [sustran] With Ecocab, Fazilka shows the way Message-ID: *Ecocabs are cyclerickshaws that are only a phone call away* Urban planners in Europe and the US may hail rickshaws as an efficient, non-polluting way to move around, but the Indian elite has always looked down upon them. The humble rickshaw now has a reason to cheer. Fazilka?s ?Ecocab? project, which will celebrate its second anniversary in June, is making planners across the country sit up and take notice. Fazilka has four call centres, one in each part of the city, where residents can telephone to call a rickshaw home. Executives in the Delhi Integrated Multi-Modal Transit System (DIMTS) want to implement this dial-in model for users of their BRT corridor buses. The Jaipur-based Kuhad Trust, which helps rickshaw-pullers own their rickshaws through a zero-interest scheme, wants to replicate the project in the Pink City, while the Punjab Heritage and Tourism Promotion Board is also looking at the feasibility of adopting this model for tourists in Amritsar. The ?Ecocab? project, put in place by the Graduates Welfare Association of Fazilka (GWAF), is now being hailed as a pioneering initiative in the country. Dr Anvita Arora, CEO of Innovative Transport Solutions, an incubatee company of IIT-Delhi, says: ?At the Urban Mobility Conference organised by the Ministry of Urban Development in December 2009, the project received much appreciation from national and international delegates.? Dr Arora, who is working on sustainable transport in various cities, is a visiting faculty member of the urban design department of School of Planning and Architecture (SPA), New Delhi. It was on her suggestion that Kirti Dikshit, now working as an industrial designer in a design firm at Delhi, did her master?s thesis on the ?Ecocab? project as part of her M.Arch course at SPA. And ?Carbusters?, the journal of the World Carfree Network, has carried a detailed article on the ?dial-a-rickshaw? facility. Anil Sethi, president of Fazilka Municipal Council, says the project has decongested the main markets, leading to better business for traders and convenience for residents. ?Our cities are getting so polluted and congested that projects like the Ecocab have become imperative. The 500-odd rickshaw pullers benefiting with an additional income means the project is a boon for as many families,? he asserts. GWAF secretary Navdeep Asija adds: ?BSNL is giving us seven lines. While we will have five fixed call centres, two phones will be placed at strategic points in markets with a tea stall owner or some other small vendor.? GWAF has provided digital identity cards to the ?traction men?, as Asija calls them. The cards have the entire socio-economic data of each rickshaw puller, along with his address and family profile, blood group and household income. It has also given an insurance cover of Rs 50,000 each to the rickshaw pullers, and made provision for their free medical check-up and treatment at established clinics in the city. Says Jaspal Singh, Deputy Manager, DIMTS: ?We are considering the viability of using call-in rickshaws as a feeder route for the BRT corridor. It?s a people-friendly initiative, because our users face a problem coming to the bus stand from their homes.? Punjab?s Principal Secretary, Tourism, Geetika Kalha has asked GWAF to prepare a feasibility report on using the model in Amritsar. ?Our Tourist Information Centre can be the hub, and we can develop package tours for tourists to use dial-in rickshaws for visiting the Golden Temple, the Durgiana Temple and the Jallianwala Bagh. The model can be brilliant for congested cities like Amritsar,? she says. Harshit Kaushik, project manager for the Kuhad Trust at Jaipur, says the NGO is looking at the possibility of adopting the scheme in the Rajasthan capital. *The ?Fazilka Nano?* THE Graduates Welfare Association of Fazilka (GWAF) had asked Kirti Dikshit, a student of School of Planning and Architecture, to design a lighter rickshaw. The Fazilka Nano, as association members call it, was launched at the Fazilka Heritage Festival on April 4. It weighs 55 kg, as compared to a traditional rickshaw which weighs approximately 85 kg. Kirti has used hollow iron pipes to increase its strength and ensure greater durability. A traditional rickshaw uses much wood. Various other changes have been made keeping in mind the comfort of the rickshaw puller and the passengers. Rickshaw pullers have responded well to the new model, and more changes are being made in line with the feedback given by them. ?Once we are satisfied with the prototype in all respects, we will train a local manufacturer to make them for us,? says GWAF secretary Navdeep Asija. http://www.indianexpress.com/news/with-ecocab-fazilka-shows-the-way/611194/ ?Ecocab can become viable and eco-friendly means of transport? *Chandigarh* *Hight Court makes IE report on Ecocab a PIL, sends notices to Punjab govt* Taking cognisance of a news item, ?With Ecocab, Fazilka shows the way?, which appeared in The Indian Express on April 26, Punjab and Haryana High Court Chief Justice Mukul Mudgal has converted it into a public interest litigation (PIL). Taking suo motu notice of the news item, the chief justice held: ?If the facts appearing in the report are correct, the matter deserves to be looked into in this court?s PIL jurisdiction.? The order said: ?With its (cycle-rickshaws?) transformation into Ecocab, it is on the way to become a viable and eco-friendly means of transport for all. It will be available on a phone call, to be made to Ecocab booths. The initiative is praiseworthy. Various organisations are said to be taking interest in the project. Ecocab has the potential to replace carbon dioxide emitting cars and other motor vehicles.? A division bench comprising the chief justice and Justice Jasbir Singh has issued notices to the Punjab government. The news item highlighted the role of School of Planning and Architecture ( SPA), New Delhi, at the asking of Graduates? Welfare Association of Fazilka (GWAF) in designing a lighter cycle-rickshaw named as Ecocab. The Fazilka Nano, as the model is named by a member of the GWAF, was launched on April 4 on the occasion of Fazilka Heritage Festival. Not only lighter in weight than the traditional rickshaw, it has been designed to give a comfortable ride to people travelling short distances in towns and cities, the report had noted. http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/ecocab-can-become-viable-and-ecofriendly-means-of-transport/612632/ From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Wed Oct 13 17:58:11 2010 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric britton) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 10:58:11 +0200 Subject: [sustran] "With Ecocab, Fazilka shows the way" Message-ID: <025d01cb6ab4$c54ee290$4feca7b0$@britton@ecoplan.org> Thanks so much for passing this interesting report and project on. I think that Ecocab might make a good article for World Streets or our new journal which will open its doors on 1 November. It would be very interesting to have comments and additional information or leads on this project as we decide how to treat it. Sustran of course will be fully informed of the article once we figure out what to do with it. Kind thanks/Eric From shovan1209 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 15 05:56:03 2010 From: shovan1209 at yahoo.com (Syed Saiful Alam) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 13:56:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sustran] Call for abstracts/paper for BAPA-BEN Special Conference on Urbanization, Traffic Jam and Environment with revised deadline for Submission In-Reply-To: <01c101cb5f08$98ccb240$ca6616c0$@britton@ecoplan.org> Message-ID: <773583.89136.qm@web57104.mail.re3.yahoo.com> ??????????????????????????????????????????????????? Special conference on Urbanization, Traffic Jam, and Environment ? Organized by Bangladesh?Poribesh Andolon (BAPA) and Bangladesh?Environment Network (BEN) ? In association with Universities of Bangladesh and Other pro-environment organizations ? To be held on January 7 & 8 (Friday & Saturday), 2011 At venue (to be determined), Dhaka, Bangladesh ? Papers are invited on any of the topics and sub-topics?below in the flyer for presentation at the conference. The revised schedule for paper submission and processing is as follows: ? October?15: Submission of Abstracts (not exceeding 300 words) of papers October 30: Review of Abstracts and invitation for submission of full papers November 30: Submission of full papers December 15: Selection of papers for presentation in the conference ? Abstracts are to be sent via e-mail to the following: For authors residing in Bangladesh: Prof. Feroze Ahmed, Bangladesh University of Engineering and Technology (BUET) E-mail:?fahmed@ce.buet.ac.bd ? For authors residing outside Bangladesh: ????????????Prof. Saleh Tanveer, Ohio State University, Columbus, Ohio, USA ????????????E-mail:?tanveer@math.ohio-state.edu ? A selection of papers from among the ones presented at the conference will be published in the conference volume.? ? ? Background ? The urban, in particular, the capital city-centric development strategy is causing people from all across the country to flock to the Dhaka city, leading to an explosion of its size, so much so that it is now hard to demarcate its borders. Yet, the infrastructure necessary for urban life has not expanded in a commensurate manner. As a result, basic urban utilities, such as housing, transportation, electricity, water, drainage, sewerage, etc. are now in acute shortage. Greenery and water bodies are disappearing. Parks, gardens, and open spaces for recreational activities are becoming a rarity. Distressing slums are spreading at the same time as high rises are being built. ? Horrific traffic jam is gradually bringing Dhaka city to a standstill. Traffic jam is spreading to other cities too, and it is imposing a huge cost on the economy in many different ways. In particular, it is discouraging many investors, affecting negatively the country?s economic growth prospects. ? Meanwhile, pollution has become a serious threat. Thanks to the efforts by BAPA, BEN, and other pro-environment organizations, the two-stroke engine vehicles (TSEV) have been removed from the streets, so that the urban air quality is now somewhat better than what it was in late 1990s. However, the air quality still remains dangerously poor. The volume of household waste is increasing, and its composition is worsening due to rising share of plastic and other non-biodegradable components. Medical waste is increasing, and there is yet no separate system for its disposal. Electronic waste, often containing radioactive elements, has become a serious problem. Untreated sewerage continues to contaminate neighboring rivers unceasingly. ? Industrial waste has now become the most dangerous threat. Lacking Effluent Treatment Plants (ETP), most industrial enterprises are dumping their toxic effluents into neighboring water bodies and rivers. As a result, the river?Buriganga, which gave birth to the Dhaka city, is now biologically dead. The rivers?Shityalakkha,?Turag, and?Balu?are also meeting the same fate. The river?Karnaphuli?in Chittagong is also facing serious industrial pollution. Industrial pollution is poisoning urban land and air too. ? Besides pollution, the erroneous, Cordon Approach towards rivers, pursued for decades under foreign advice, is disrupting the rivers, while causing miseries to the urban life. The so-called flood protection embankments are disconnecting cities and towns from neighboring rivers. As a result, water bodies inside cities and towns are decaying and getting encroached and filled up. At the same time, by preventing rainwater from passing on to the rivers, these embankments have given rise to the new and increasingly severe problem of water-logging. By encouraging below-flood-level settlement inside them, the embankments have made many more people vulnerable to flood, creating for them a very risky situation. Ironically, embankments have in general failed to protect towns from river erosion and in many cases have actually aggravated the erosion. ? The pollution and Cordon Approach to rivers have created a crisis in urban water supply. On the one hand, the Cordon Approach has encouraged dependence on groundwater. However, relentless withdrawal has now caused the groundwater table to descend, making further extraction of groundwater difficult, and creating a vacuum and raising the danger of subsidence. On the other hand, pollution has now made neighboring river water unfit for consumption. ? The Dhaka-centric development has resulted in relative neglect and lack of development of district and?upazilla?towns. Adequate investment and resources are not directed towards them. In fact, the country faces a vicious circle, whereby lack of development in district andupazilla?towns is causing their affluent people to flock to Dhaka, fueling its further development while perpetuating and even aggravating underdevelopment of district and?upazilla?towns. ? On the other hand, tragically, the district and?upazilla?towns, in whatever urbanization effort they can afford, are following the footsteps of Dhaka city. They are also filling up water bodies, cutting down trees, building embankments to sever connections with rivers, extracting groundwater, inviting water logging, increasing vulnerability to flooding, polluting the environment, and aggravating rich-poor divide with regard to access to urban utilities and other public services. ? Overall, urbanization in Bangladesh is facing a crisis. Yet, the current urbanization rate is only about 20 percent. Given the crisis that it already faces, one wonders how Bangladesh will achieve urbanization rates of 40 or 60 percent. In the past, the country did achieve some progress in reducing the population growth rate. However, subsequent complacency and increase in the population base figure have now resulted in huge annual increases in the total population size. Urbanization in the context of such a huge and increasing population is posing a mindboggling challenge. ? Unfortunately, there is as yet no integrated, comprehensive, and effective effort to overcome the urbanization crisis that Bangladesh faces. Urbanization efforts so far remain?ad hoc, isolated, and partial in nature. In many cases, these efforts contradict and nullify benefits of each other. For example, the ?Western Embankment,? built to protect Dhaka city from flooding, has now become a major cause of water logging. Similarly, while talking about solving traffic jam problem, the government is taking many steps that are aggravating the problem. In yet another example, the government is failing to make owners to set up ETPs in their industrial enterprises, even though it is expressing its resolve to free rivers from pollution. Overall, there is a lack of vision and integrated effort in resolving urbanization issues. ? How can Bangladesh overcome the urbanization crisis? How can Bangladesh make use of its small size and dense population to reduce rural-urban difference and thereby lessen the urbanization pressure? How can Bangladesh attain dispersed urbanization in order to avoid unwieldy mega cities? How can Bangladesh ensure balanced development of district andupazilla?towns? How can Bangladesh make urbanization pro-environment? How can Bangladesh solve the special problems of towns and cities threatened by river erosion? How can Bangladesh make urbanization poor friendly? ? It is urgent to find answers to these and related other questions. A national brainstorming is necessary for this purpose, and the proposed conference is being organized to facilitate such an exercise. ? ? The general aim of this conference is to analyze the urbanization crisis that Bangladesh faces and arrive at an effective integrated solution of this crisis with special attention to traffic and transportation problems. To this end, the conference sets before itself the following concrete objectives: ? 1. Identify the main problems of urbanization in Bangladesh and classify these problems in accordance to the size and nature of cities and towns of the country; ? 2. Investigate and reveal the interconnections among different problems of urbanization with special importance given to transportation and communication problems; ? 3. Reveal the connection between urbanization problems and the national development strategy; ? 4. Consider the relevant international urbanization and transportation experience and derive its lessons for Bangladesh; ? 5. Formulate an integrated and effective urbanization and transportation strategy, distinguishing its long-run and short run policy implications. ? ? ? To achieve its aim and objectives, the conference will strive to bring together all who are involved with urbanization problems and the efforts to resolve them. Among them will be ? 1. Resident Bangladeshi, non-resident Bangladeshi, and foreign experts on various urbanization issues; ? 2. Representative of various city and township authorities (corporations, councils,Pourashavas,?etc.); ? 3. Representatives of government ministries, directorates, authorities, agencies, and corporations concerned with urbanization issues; ? 4. Representatives of political parties; ? 5. Representatives of various concerned citizens? organizations; ? 6. Representatives of various business associations involved with urbanization; ? 7. Representatives of various labor and professional association involved with urbanization;. ? 8. Representatives of various NGOs and CSOs concerned with urbanization; ? 9. Representatives from district and?upazilla?towns; ? 10. Other citizens and residents of cities and towns. ? ? ? Conforming to BAPA-BEN tradition, this conference too will have a dual format, comprised of the following two types of sessions: ? Expert Sessions,?where papers by experts on different urbanization issues will be presented and discussed; and ? General Sessions, where no written papers will be presented and instead representatives of city and town authorities, different urban related policy making and implementing agencies, political parties, business organizations, professional and labor organizations, NGOs and CSOs, and other participants will present their experience and views. ? In addition, there will be the Opening and Closing sessions and the Strategy session where the resolutions of the conference will be adopted. ? Apart from the sessions above, the conference will have many other components. There will also be many pre-conference events. ? ? ? The specific topics of the conference will include the following: ? Urbanization: Crisis and Prospects Current trends in urbanization in Bangladesh and future projections Urbanization crisis and Bangladesh development strategy ????????????Dispersed urbanization in Bangladesh: prospects and problems ??????????????????????? Urbanization and Disasters Possibility of earthquakes and preparedness Natural and urban flooding? Urban fire hazard and preparedness ? Urbanization and Environment Urbanization and parks, gardens, and open spaces Urbanization and air, water, and soil pollution ? Urbanization and Water Urbanization and the approach to rivers Urbanization, water-logging, and flooding ????????????Urbanization and wetlands ? Urbanization and Transportation Traffic jam and congestion problems Public and freight transport and communications modes: road, railway, waterway, etc. The special role of biking in Bangladesh urbanization The special role of walking in Bangladesh urbanization ??????????? Urbanization, Housing, and Settlement Pattern ????????????????????????Reorganization of rural settlement pattern and reducing rural-urban divide ????????????????????????Urban housing and land market ????????????????????????Housing need, economy, and affordability ? ????????????Urbanization and Population ????????????????????????Population growth and urbanization Rural-urban migration ??????????? Urbanization and the poor ????????????Urban land, transportation and utility policy and the urban poor ????????????Special problems of the slums Urban economic and settlement growth and the poor Strategy and policies for pro-poor urbanization ? ????????????Urbanization and basic utility services Urbanization and water supply Urbanization and sewerage ????????????Urbanization and electricity supply ????????????Urbanization and industrial waste ????????????Urbanization and household waste ????????????Urbanization and medical waste ????????????Urbanization and electronic waste ? Urbanization and Governance ????????????????????????Urbanization and city and town governance issues ????????????????????????Institutional morphology, distribution and empowerment issues Relative roles of the public and private sectors in urbanization Role of private developers and housing construction companies ????????????????????????Role of RAJUK as regulator and developer ? Special problems of urbanization ????????????Special problems of divisional cities ????????????Special problems of port cities ????????????Special problems of district towns ????????????Special problems of?upazilla?townships ????????????Special problems of cities and towns facing river erosion ??????????? Urbanization, Planning, and Building Codes ????????????Dhaka Master Plan and Detailed Area Plan (DAP) ????????????Building codes and rules ????????????Conservation and heritage issues ? Lessons from international urbanization experience ????????????Lessons from developed countries ????????????Lessons from successful developing countries of East Asia ????????????Lessons from neighboring countries and regions, including India and West Bengal ? ? ? ? ? As part of the process, a Conference Organizing Committee(COC) with?Prof. Muzaffer Ahmed?and?Architect Iqbal Habib,?Cell phone: 01711520337, e-mail: ,?as the Chairman and Member Secretary respectively has?meanwhile started to work for ?the?preparation for the conference. ? ? Conference secretariat For further information, please contact the conference secretariat below: ? Bangladesh Poribesh Andolon (BAPA) 9/12 Block D, Lalmatia, Dhaka 1207 Tel. 812-8024, Fax: 8113469, E-mail:?bapa2000@gmail.com web site:?www.bapa.org.bd?-- I Q B A L?? H A B I B -- Mohidul Hoque Khan Managing Director Pathways Consulting Services Ltd 3/12, Block-F, Lalmatia, Dhaka-1207, Bangladesh Office:?? +88-02-8150141 Mobile: +8801199-076142 Syed Saiful alam shovan1209@yahoo.com +8801552442814 From sutp at sutp.org Tue Oct 19 21:07:45 2010 From: sutp at sutp.org (SUTP Team) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 17:37:45 +0530 Subject: [sustran] GTZ releases a Reading List on Non-motorised Transport Message-ID: <4CBD8A11.3080703@sutp.org> A broad definition of NMT would be any kind of a transport system that would not run on a motor. Some such examples are walking, cycling, rickshaws etc. Including these modes is very important should a city aim to be sustainable in terms of transport. In developing cities, there is a huge echelon of the society that is very dependent on the NMT modes mentioned above. The urban poor used walking and cycling as their basic means to access their work. Depriving them of NMT would be snatching their daily bread and pushing them deeper into destitution. The current document is one of the several efforts of GTZ-Sustainable Urban Transport Project to bring to the policymakers an easy to access list of available material on NMT which can be sued in their everyday work. The document aims to list out some influential and informative resources that highlight the importance of NMT in cities and how the existing situation could be improved. More info: http://www.sutp.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2430&Itemid=1 Comments and suggestions on improving SUTP activities and publications can be addressed to sutp@sutp.org -- SUTP Team sutp[at]sutp.org http://www.sutp.org From sutp at sutp.org Thu Oct 21 17:48:00 2010 From: sutp at sutp.org (SUTP Team) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 14:18:00 +0530 Subject: [sustran] GTZ releases a Reading List on Public Bicycle Schemes Message-ID: <4CBFFE40.6000807@sutp.org> Various cities around the world are trying methods to encourage bicycling as a sustainable transport mode. Among those methods in encouraging cycling implementing public bicycle schemes is one. The public bicycle schemes are also known as bicycle sharing systems, community bicycling schemes etc., The main idea of a public bicycle system is that the user need not own a bicycle but still gain the advantages of bicycling by renting a bicycle provided by the scheme for a nominal fee or for free of charge (as in some cities). Most of these schemes enable people to realize one way trips, because the users need not return the bicycles to the origin, which will avoid unnecessary travel. Public bicycle schemes provide not only convenience for trips in the communities, they can also be a good addition to the public transport system. Encouraging public bike systems have shown that there can be numerous short that could be made by a bicycle instead of using motorised modes. Public bike schemes also encourage creative designs in bikes and also in the operational mechanisms. The current document is one of the several efforts of GTZ Sustainable Urban Transport Project to bring to the policymakers an easy to access list of available material on Public Bike Schemes (PBS) which can be used in their everyday work. The document aims to list out some influential and informative resources that highlight the importance of PBS in cities and how the existing situation could be improved. More info: http://www.sutp.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2447&Itemid=1&lang=en Comments and suggestions on improving SUTP activities and publications can be addressed to sutp@sutp.org -- SUTP Team sutp[at]sutp.org http://www.sutp.org From sutp at sutp.org Thu Oct 21 18:25:58 2010 From: sutp at sutp.org (SUTP Team) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 14:55:58 +0530 Subject: [sustran] GTZ Training course on Transportation Demand Management at BAQ 2010, Singapore Message-ID: <4CC00726.10803@sutp.org> *One Day Training Course on ?Transportation Demand Management? a Post-Event to the BAQ 2010, Singapore* Transportation Demand Management (TDM), also called Travel Demand Management, aims to maximize the efficiency of urban transport systems by discouraging unnecessary private vehicle use and promoting more effective, healthy and environment-friendly modes of transport, namely public transport and non-motorised transport. Various cities in the developing world are grappling with the situation of increasing motorisation. In such a position TDM offers favourable measures to tackle the problem. The TDM measures can be broadly classified into "PUSH" and "PULL" measures. These measures include the design related changes, improving public transport, non-motorised transport and also economic instruments. In an effort to increase the awareness on TDM among the various stakeholders in transport especially the policy makers in developing cities, the German Technical Cooperation (GTZ) along with LTA Academy, Land Transport Authority of Singapore (LTA), and the Clean Air Initiative (CAI) - Asia is organising a one day training course. This course will be held as a post event to the Better Air Quality (BAQ) 2010 Conference. The course will be conducted in English and is open for all the BAQ participants and also other interested parties. The course is expected to address the various "PUSH" and "PULL" measures of TDM with various examples from the developed world. This event will be held at the LTA Academy, Land Transport Authority of Singapore (LTA) in cooperation with the Better Air Quality (BAQ) 2010 conference on November 12, 2010. Due to limited availability of seats, we request you to register early (at no charges). The draft agenda for the event can be downloaded from http://www.sutp.org/documents/PRG-TDMBAQ2010-EN.pdf . To express your interest in participating please send in your details to Mr. Santhosh (Sunny) Kodukula, GTZ-SUTP, santhosh.kodukula [at] sutp.org This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it -- SUTP Team sutp[at]sutp.org From hghazali at gmail.com Fri Oct 22 01:29:34 2010 From: hghazali at gmail.com (Hassaan Ghazali) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 21:29:34 +0500 Subject: [sustran] Op-ed piece on CNG Message-ID: Please find attached my op-ed which appeared in Pakistan Today on Oct 21. Hassaan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CNG P2Day.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 151044 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20101021/b2ded76d/CNGP2Day-0001.jpg From edelman at greenidea.eu Fri Oct 22 01:46:24 2010 From: edelman at greenidea.eu (Todd Edelman) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 18:46:24 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Re: Op-ed piece on CNG In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CC06E60.8010006@greenidea.eu> Depending on how it is obtained, CNG can have other problems, such as fracking . See alsothis link . Where does the CNG in India come from? Oil drilling? In Germany, CNG is at least informally described as an eco-fuel. Of course - and what might be alarming to Hindus - is that more and more of it comes in the form of bio-methane from industrial agricultural, i.e. cadavers of cows used in meat and dairy production, and other related waste. - T On 21/10/10 18:29, Hassaan Ghazali wrote: > Please find attached my op-ed which appeared in Pakistan Today on Oct 21. > > Hassaan > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). -- Todd Edelman Green Idea Factory, a member of the OPENbike team Mobile: ++49(0)162 814 4081 edelman@greenidea.eu www.greenidea.eu todd@openbike.se www.openbike.se Skype: toddedelman Urbanstr. 45 10967 Berlin Germany *** OPENbike - Share the Perfect Fit! From bruun at seas.upenn.edu Fri Oct 22 05:42:09 2010 From: bruun at seas.upenn.edu (bruun at seas.upenn.edu) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:42:09 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: Op-ed piece on CNG In-Reply-To: <4CC06E60.8010006@greenidea.eu> References: <4CC06E60.8010006@greenidea.eu> Message-ID: <20101021164209.35855abblrp6nezl@webmail.seas.upenn.edu> I want to call attention to an article in the Environment 2010 issue of Transportation Research Record (TRR 2158). There is an interesting article about the relative pollution and CHG levels of various engines used in Mexico City (and elsewhere). The bottom line is that that CNG with an Oxidation Catalyst improves the usual CNG propulsion system that otherwise gives cleaner exhaust, but at the expense of more GHG, than a diesel. Even better, the diesel-electric hybrid is all around as good or better than all other propulsion systems. Most important of all, it is absolutely essential that Ultra Low Sulpur Diesel fuel use be strictly enforced. If regular diesel, kerosene, or any other adulterants are allowed to be used, then the "clean diesel" equipment will quickly be destroyed. Mr. Ghazali is absolutely right that technology isn't the problem, it is organizational. Eric Quoting Todd Edelman : > Depending on how it is obtained, CNG can have other problems, such as > fracking . See > alsothis link . Where does > the CNG in India come from? Oil drilling? > > In Germany, CNG is at least informally described as an eco-fuel. Of > course - and what might be alarming to Hindus - is that more and more of > it comes in the form of bio-methane from industrial agricultural, i.e. > cadavers of cows used in meat and dairy production, and other related waste. > > - T > > On 21/10/10 18:29, Hassaan Ghazali wrote: >> Please find attached my op-ed which appeared in Pakistan Today on Oct 21. >> >> Hassaan >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the >> real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >> >> ================================================================ >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing >> countries (the 'Global South'). > > > -- > > Todd Edelman > Green Idea Factory, > a member of the OPENbike team > > Mobile: ++49(0)162 814 4081 > > edelman@greenidea.eu > www.greenidea.eu > todd@openbike.se > www.openbike.se > > Skype: toddedelman > > Urbanstr. 45 > 10967 Berlin > Germany > > *** > > OPENbike - Share the Perfect Fit! > > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the > real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing > countries (the 'Global South'). > > From edelman at greenidea.eu Fri Oct 22 23:24:11 2010 From: edelman at greenidea.eu (Todd Edelman) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 16:24:11 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Mumbai: "Clean, Green" TATA Tower is a Bleak Vision of the Future, Dominated by Cars Message-ID: <4CC19E8B.4020005@greenidea.eu> http://www.treehugger.com/files/2010/10/tata-tower-vision-of-future.php?campaign=daily_nl It is a future where we never get out of our cars, just drive home into the lifts and rise up to our apartment and desks. Where every resident gets to park their car in their own little "garden."... see link above for full story -- Todd Edelman Green Idea Factory, a member of the OPENbike team Mobile: ++49(0)162 814 4081 edelman@greenidea.eu www.greenidea.eu todd@openbike.se www.openbike.se Skype: toddedelman Urbanstr. 45 10967 Berlin Germany *** OPENbike - Share the Perfect Fit! From patwardhan.sujit at gmail.com Sun Oct 24 14:25:46 2010 From: patwardhan.sujit at gmail.com (Sujit Patwardhan) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 10:55:46 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Fwd: Bicycles, Unchained and Grease-Free In-Reply-To: <944048.79205.qm@web43135.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <944048.79205.qm@web43135.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: 24 October 2010 Thanks Ajay Zaveri for forwarding this very interesting piece. -- Sujit [image: The New York Times] ** * BUSINESS DAY * | October 24, 2010 * Novelties: Bicycles, Unchained and Grease-Free * By ANNE EISENBERG Companies are developing new designs and materials to replace bicycle chains with grease-free alternatives like polymer cables or carbon-toughened belts. Pl refer to blog and post comments http://www.entropy.in/ -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- *Cities need mobility, not cars.* ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sujit Patwardhan patwardhan.sujit@gmail.com sujit@parisar.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yamuna, ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007, India Tel: +91 20 25537955 Cell: +91 98220 26627 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Parisar: www.parisar.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From hghazali at gmail.com Sun Oct 24 22:24:03 2010 From: hghazali at gmail.com (Hassaan Ghazali) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 18:24:03 +0500 Subject: [sustran] Op-ed on the urban economy Message-ID: Please find below the link to my op-ed on the urban economy which appeared in Pakistan Today on Oct 24 http://epaper.pakistantoday.com.pk/E-Paper/Lahore/2010-10-24/page-13/detail-3 Hassaan From edelman at greenidea.eu Sun Oct 24 23:11:53 2010 From: edelman at greenidea.eu (Todd Edelman) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 16:11:53 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Re: Fwd: Bicycles, Unchained and Grease-Free In-Reply-To: References: <944048.79205.qm@web43135.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4CC43EA9.5010208@greenidea.eu> Hi, Belt drives are great for most of the reasons mentioned - bikes like the folding Strida made now in Taiwan use it and are reportedly quite good - but they still need some cleaning. However, as with classic chain-type systems, they benefit from having a complete cover, both to keep them clean and to keep both long trousers and skirts/dresses (and perhaps other traditional clothing in the Global South?) out of the chain (like on many typical city bikes)*. Once a classic chain is covered it stays very clean and hardly needs any maintenance. So then with a cover these two systems become nearly equal in that aspect... and chains can also be repaired, adjusted or replaced in every country on Earth, including in most rural areas. - T * Recently I was at an event in Berlin where a man was describing how he could tell if someone wearing a trousers rode a bike to work in his German workplace: By their right trouser leg stuck into a sock. Of course I laughed to myself because e.g. especially in the Netherlands most people ride to work with a covered chain, thus not requiring that technique. On 24/10/10 07:25, Sujit Patwardhan wrote: > 24 October 2010 > > > > Thanks Ajay Zaveri for forwarding this very interesting piece. > -- > Sujit > > > > > [image: The New York Times] > > ** > * BUSINESS DAY * | October 24, 2010 > * Novelties: Bicycles, Unchained and Grease-Free > * > By ANNE EISENBERG > > Companies are developing new designs and materials to replace bicycle > chains with grease-free alternatives like polymer cables or carbon-toughened > belts. > > Pl refer to blog and post comments > http://www.entropy.in/ > > > > > > > > -- Todd Edelman Green Idea Factory, a member of the OPENbike team Mobile: ++49(0)162 814 4081 edelman@greenidea.eu www.greenidea.eu todd@openbike.se www.openbike.se Skype: toddedelman Urbanstr. 45 10967 Berlin Germany *** OPENbike - Share the Perfect Fit! From edelman at greenidea.eu Sun Oct 24 23:32:26 2010 From: edelman at greenidea.eu (Todd Edelman) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 16:32:26 +0200 Subject: [sustran] No mandatory helmets at Velo-city Global in Vancouver! Join the Facebook Group! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CC4437A.8070807@greenidea.eu> Hi, I started a new Group on Facebook: "No mandatory helmets at Velo-city Global in Vancouver!" and it would be great if people joined. Thanks! Here is the description: "We are happy and delighted that Vancouver has been selected by the European Cyclists' Federation as the host city for Velo-city Global in 2012. The administration and people of Vancouver have made great efforts to make their city become more bike-friendly and they deserve this honour and challenge. However, for a variety of reasons we oppose the mandatory all-ages helmet law of the province of British Columbia. Therefore we threaten a mass non-compliance action during Velo-City in Vancouver. This will most likely be during the week's group ride, with many hundreds of participants. Will Vancouver police fine all of us? Apparently compliance with the law is low and police rarely enforce it. This is good, but I believe a very clear message is still warranted. People are still free to wear helmets and should not be judged either way! See you - with optional head gear - in Vancouver in June 2012!" See http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_126914327362653 of search using the name of the Group.... -- Todd Edelman Green Idea Factory, a member of the OPENbike team Mobile: ++49(0)162 814 4081 edelman@greenidea.eu www.greenidea.eu todd@openbike.se www.openbike.se Skype: toddedelman Urbanstr. 45 10967 Berlin Germany *** OPENbike - Share the Perfect Fit! From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Mon Oct 25 15:08:20 2010 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric britton) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 08:08:20 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Sustran/India Streets: An invitation and reflection Message-ID: <006001cb740b$0acf2140$206d63c0$@britton@ecoplan.org> Executive Summary: Announcing a new collaborative journal. India Streets, due to go on line on 1 November which we should like to draw to the attention of Sustran's readers in advance - for your information and eventual comments, suggestions and perhaps even in time participation in some form. The address is www.IndiaStreets.org. And we think of it as in some way a voice (or at least another pair of lungs) for Sustran to, in and of the great and needy Subcontinent. If you wish to receive efficient notices daily or weekly of articles and comments, you will see a Subscribe button top right which you can use to sign in and indicate your delivery choice. Come visit, it belongs to you. Now a paean to Sustran: To SUSTRAN: The Sustainable Transport Action Network for Asia and the Pacific Dear Sustran colleagues and friends of many years, 1999-2010: Since we first got started here in this most agreeable collaborative forum back in the autumn of 1999 eleven long years have passed (or almost seven generations according to Moore's Law, which I believe has yet to be repealed) - and here we still are, 144 of us strong on this late October day in the year 2010, still ready to go with our ideas, ideals, commitment to and enthusiasm for better mobility, better cities and better lives for all. We have seen a lot of water flow under the bridge of old and bad habits and dubious decisions over this decade: projects, proposals, mindsets, traditions, values, people and groups charging in, seizing the stage for a while, and then all too often to disappearing with a twitch or a trace. But Sustran? -- as Sujit Patwardhan put it so memorably back in 2005: "Eric, we are in this for the long slog". Media: Over this period we have as of today exchanged between us via this address no less than 6,306 messages (yes, I counted them). And thanks to the careful eye and stewardship of Paul Barter the entire stash of all that past correspondence is still available for any and all at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sustran-discuss/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sustran-discuss/. And what is more, it is fully searchable. A rich database right at hand. Geography: If memory serves me, more than 95% of these exchanges come from or concern our original target region, Asia/Pacific -- with the lion's share either coming from or concerning transport and environment issues in India. Well I can think of several likely explanations for this, including the fact of more than one billion Indians who have to get around in their day to day lives, together with a gradually rising groundswell of dissatisfaction with government policy and practices in the sector have steadily brought in new players and groups with new ideas. And of course the use of English as the secondary official language in India makes Sustran a natural channel of communication. Thrust: By and large - if I may and please protest if you do not agree - there are a few strong central themes that keep coming up. The high importance of providing for safe walking, safe cycling, and safe streets is probably at the top of our shared agenda. Affordable public transport that has priority over private cars. But also a realistic attitude about the importance of showing a lot more imagination and inventiveness when it comes to getting the most our of private, traditional motorized transport forms such as shared taxis, small private buses, and motorized two and three wheelers. (They may not be pretty but they work, so it is our job to get the most out of them for all concerned.) An understanding that streets are above all for people, including the people who are already out there using them in their various and to them important way. Concerns with social justice and fairness as bedrock values constantly shape our debates. I also detect a strongly felt shared respect for the idea of working with what we have as a strategic priority -- instead of emphasizing costly proposals for ambitious mega-projects which require new construction, disruption and greater separation of the public space into specialized functions and zones (of which namely the prevailing practice of favoring faster vehicles). There are other themes that have come up in these 6,306 messages of course, but these are among the strong central trends or tendencies that come to mind today. Frustration: Now I am not sure if I am the only one who has felt this, but from a purely functional point of view I have always found it quite thwarting that while many excellent or at least challenging ideas are voiced in these pages and often commented usefully, rarely are they brought here into a thoughtful synopsis which looks at the agreement and disagreements, and tries to help us understand what it is that we are learning together as we swap these views and challenge each other. We thus have such promising raw materials but all too often they get a bit lost in the rush to new exchanges and new topics. This seems like a waste of brains in a needy world. Proposal: So with a certain number of starts and stops over the last couple of years as I have tried to work my way through this, as a result of my contacts with a number of you an idea has been born for a possible way to give Sustran a greater public voice, and this is a proposal which a group of us are presently working hard on under the name, India Streets. The goal of India Streets, in a few words, is to plan and produce an independent collaborative journal in the form of a group blog which will serve as a voice for sustainable transport in India and in the surrounding countries, including Bangladesh, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, and Nepal, possibly among others. To this end, we are working on the project that you can now visit at www.IndiaStreets.org and which we are announcing for the first time in these pages because it is our hope that some of you may wish to be part of this: as a reader, a reviewer, a commenter and perhaps eventually as an occasional contributor. As you will note when you get to the site, we are still in a Beta test stage, but our goal is to be ready, no matter how rough still, to open the doors of the publication on the first of November. This would be a great time then to have the benefit of your critical comments and suggestions Come to India Streets. Make it your own. Eric Britton From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Mon Oct 25 17:10:46 2010 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric britton) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 10:10:46 +0200 Subject: [sustran] World Streets - Weekly digest for 25 October 2010 Message-ID: <00fb01cb741c$2dc850c0$8958f240$@britton@ecoplan.org> To receive the daily or weekly summaries of World Streets news and postings, click (top right): www.WorldStreets.org ? Op-Ed: Hassaan Ghazali on Public Transport in the Punjab This is the first shared posting from India Streets, a sister program to W/S that is to open for publication on 1 November. At this point the site is still in Beta. Your visits and comments for improvement are most welcome. ? "If you think the NATO oil tankers have a rough time in Pakistan, spare a thought for the masses which use the local transport system. The manner in which buses, rickshaws and strange articulated three-wheelers ply on our roads makes it obvious that there is nothing really ?public? about public transport anymore. We have instead condemned the majority of the population, many of whom are poor, women and elderly, to a veritable shakedown staged by "The end of the parking meter" This article? by Tom Vanderbilt appeared in yesterday's Wired offering a readable review of the history of this remarkable American transportation invention and gift to the world, with good references to Donald Shoup's monumental "The High Cost of Free Parking" and Paul Barter's Reinventing Parking blog. Every regular reader of World Streets is well aware that strategic parking control is one of the key pillars to a city transport system that is doing its job -- but whether or not the key to this is going to be the old parking meter, well that we can leave you to judge. ? For your next Car Free Day, go on a diet. "When it comes to transport, we've become obese. I mean this in multiple senses. Our population of vehicles has burgeoned; already around 1 billion worldwide, it?s expected to double within just 20 years. The vehicle miles we travel, or VMT, continue to swell; just in the U.S., for instance, VMT now fluctuates around 250 billion per month ? trillions per year ? and grows each month by an average 200 million more. Even our waistlines have expanded due to excess motor vehicle travel; one study attributes six extra pounds to the extra driving done by typical suburbanites." Commuting your way to divorce One of the persistent themes of World Streets is that both the starting and the ending place for? what is often called "transportation" or "infrastructure" are not about concrete, steel or rubber, nor infrastructure, vehicles or even electronics, but people -- ordinary people like you and me in our day-to-day lives. Here in a short piece by the behavioral economist Robert Frank that appeared in Saturday's New York Times is a single paragraph (toward the bottom and conveniently in red here) which provides? us with one more? trenchant reminder that reminds us of the importance of starting with people. And the high cost of tailing to do just that From operations at velomondial.net Mon Oct 25 19:20:28 2010 From: operations at velomondial.net (Pascal van den Noort) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 12:20:28 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Re: No mandatory helmets at Velo-city Global in Vancouver! Join the Facebook Group! In-Reply-To: <4CC4437A.8070807@greenidea.eu> References: <4CC4437A.8070807@greenidea.eu> Message-ID: <740BBA45-CF2E-46DB-8EB8-87498A918059@velomondial.net> http://velomondial.blogspot.com/2008/01/attitudes-to-cycle-helmets.html Pascal J.W. van den Noort Executive Director Velo Mondial operations@velomondial.net +31206270675 landline +31627055688 mobile phone Click here to follow Velo Mondial's Blog Visit Velo Mondial's blog here -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: wolk.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 25476 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20101025/c68a70d9/wolk.jpg -------------- next part -------------- On Oct 24, 2010, at 4:32 PM, Todd Edelman wrote: > Hi, > > I started a new Group on Facebook: "No mandatory helmets at Velo-city > Global in Vancouver!" and it would be great if people joined. Thanks! > > Here is the description: > > "We are happy and delighted that Vancouver has been selected by the > European Cyclists' Federation as the host city for Velo-city Global in > 2012. The administration and people of Vancouver have made great efforts > to make their city become more bike-friendly and they deserve this > honour and challenge. > > However, for a variety of reasons we oppose the mandatory all-ages > helmet law of the province of British Columbia. > > Therefore we threaten a mass non-compliance action during Velo-City in > Vancouver. This will most likely be during the week's group ride, with > many hundreds of participants. > > Will Vancouver police fine all of us? Apparently compliance with the law > is low and police rarely enforce it. This is good, but I believe a very > clear message is still warranted. People are still free to wear helmets > and should not be judged either way! > > See you - with optional head gear - in Vancouver in June 2012!" > > See http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_126914327362653 of search > using the name of the Group.... > > -- > > Todd Edelman > Green Idea Factory, > a member of the OPENbike team > > Mobile: ++49(0)162 814 4081 > > edelman@greenidea.eu > www.greenidea.eu > todd@openbike.se > www.openbike.se > > Skype: toddedelman > > Urbanstr. 45 > 10967 Berlin > Germany > > *** > > OPENbike - Share the Perfect Fit! > > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From peebeebarter at gmail.com Tue Oct 26 09:26:22 2010 From: peebeebarter at gmail.com (Paul Barter) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 08:26:22 +0800 Subject: [sustran] Re: Sustran/India Streets: An invitation and reflection In-Reply-To: <8701527125938166189@unknownmsgid> References: <8701527125938166189@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Thanks Eric for the kind words about sustran-discuss. However, I need to correct some small factual mistakes. [By the way, India Streets seems like a great initiative. I really hope it flourishes. And it will be great if sustran-discuss can help fertilise the content there, as it already enriches various blogs, forums and other endeavours in which sustran-discussers are engaged.] *Here are some facts about sustran-discuss: * * Sustran-discuss actually began in May 1997, not 1999. * There are actually 382 members in the JCA-based sustran-discuss. * The 1999 starting date and the 144 member figure quoted by Eric refer only to the yahoogroups mirror. That is not the real list. It is only a 'mirror'. If you are only on the yahoogroups version you will not be able to post. The real sustran-discuss is delivered via the jca.apc.org domain. Please read the instructions at the bottom of every list message on how to join the real JCA-based list. If we assume some overlap and some 'dead' email addresses among the 382+144 'members' then it is a fair guess that each sustran-discuss message goes to roughly 400 people or so. * The full archives, including 1996 to 1999 can be searched via http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss Try it now! It works very well, thanks to the volunteer who set up this search (Sunny?). All the best Paul Barter [co-manager of sustran-discuss, along with Karl Fjellstrom] On 25 October 2010 14:08, eric britton wrote: > ... > 1999-2010: Since we first got started here in this most agreeable > collaborative forum back in the autumn of 1999 eleven long years have > passed ... - and here we still are, 144 of us strong on this late > October day in the year 2010, still ready to go with our ideas, ideals, > ... > Media: Over this period we have as of today exchanged between us via this > address no less than 6,306 messages (yes, I counted them). And thanks to > the > careful eye and stewardship of Paul Barter the entire stash of all that > past > correspondence is still available for any and all at > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sustran-discuss/ > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sustran-discuss/. And what is more, it is > fully searchable. A rich database right at hand. > > From patwardhan.sujit at gmail.com Wed Oct 27 01:39:43 2010 From: patwardhan.sujit at gmail.com (Sujit Patwardhan) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 22:09:43 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Fwd: Pedestrians in peril - Chennai In-Reply-To: References: <4181943F760A4AA299FBA0B2E031C4F9@RASPC> Message-ID: *So true:* * Oct 26, 2010 Walking and cycling account for 34 per cent of all daily trips being undertaken in Chennai. Many more people walk to take buses and trains. Shockingly, 42 per cent of all road accidents involve pedestrians. Why are people on foot being driven off the road in Tamil Nadu's capital? Related:Need for evolving a hassle-free system for pedestrians * In this context may I draw your attention to a study published by Parisar recently called "Pedestrian Crossing Facilities in Pune" that brings out how the most pedestrian friendly way to cross the road is at grade - when motorised vehicles are made to stop at the red light. However we have become so submissive to the auto dominant city planning model that even as pedestrians we have ceased to protest against patently anti pedestrian infrastructure like the Sky-walks. The report can be downloaded from our site: www.parisar.org at this link: http://www.parisar.org/activities/analysesreports/121-pedestrian-crossing-facilities-in-pune.html While you are there do look through other interesting articles, documents and links on sustainable development -particularly sustainable urban transportation. Thank you, -- Sujit On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 9:27 PM, A.V.Shenoy wrote: > Same thing in Mumbai? We can see similar situation near FOB built at > Prabhadevi on Shankar Ghanekar Marg. > *Shenoy* > Pedestrians in peril > Oct 26, 2010 > Walking and cycling account for 34 per cent of all daily trips being > undertaken in Chennai. Many more people walk to take buses and trains. > Shockingly, 42 per cent of all road accidents involve pedestrians. Why are > people on foot being driven off the road in Tamil Nadu's capital? > Related:Need for evolving a hassle-free system for pedestrians > > > > Image: 01 of 10 > > > [image: GROUND REALITY: A steep overbridge is not attractive to > pedestrians, who prefer to use the zebra crossing on the road. This is the > scene near Stanley Hospital. By contrast, the choice for pedestrian > infrastructure in Chennai two decades ago was subways. Photo: V. Ganesan] > > GROUND REALITY: *A steep overbridge is not attractive to pedestrians, > who prefer to use the zebra crossing on the road. This is the scene near > Stanley Hospital. By contrast, the choice for pedestrian infrastructure in > Chennai two decades ago was subways.* Photo: V. Ganesan > -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- *?..each million we invest into urban motorways is an investment to destroy the city?* Mayor Hans Joachim Vogel Munich 1970 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Sujit Patwardhan patwardhan.sujit@gmail.com sujit@parisar.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yamuna, ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007, India Tel: +91 20 25537955 Cell: +91 98220 26627 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Parisar: www.parisar.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- *?..each million we invest into urban motorways is an investment to destroy the city?* Mayor Hans Joachim Vogel Munich 1970 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Sujit Patwardhan patwardhan.sujit@gmail.com sujit@parisar.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yamuna, ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007, India Tel: +91 20 25537955 Cell: +91 98220 26627 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Parisar: www.parisar.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: VBK-STANLEY_HOSPITA_275674g.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 67116 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20101026/fc598d96/VBK-STANLEY_HOSPITA_275674g-0001.jpg From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Thu Oct 28 14:31:18 2010 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric britton) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 07:31:18 +0200 Subject: [sustran] India Streets, Hindi, and Rajiv Gandhi's message Message-ID: <016a01cb7661$668bbbd0$33a33370$@britton@ecoplan.org> Sorry but I felt that this was just too deliciouis to keep to myself. Eric Britton PS. Read I/S in the language of your choice. From: Karthik Rao-Cavale [mailto:krc12353@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 27 October, 2010 22:23 To: eric britton Subject: Re: when you have a moment I have decent spoken Hindi, but I don't think I can write any of my articles in any Indian language - not even my mother tongue. My Hindi is like Rajiv Gandhi's (this is what I mean - http://www.deeshaa.org/2008/03/17/rajivspeak-is-getting-out-of-hand/) On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 2:15 PM, eric britton wrote: That's just what I was hoping for. Thanks Karthik. Eric PS. How's your Hindi? Urdu? Please check out how we are trying to handle in the "Regional Language" menu under www.IndiaStreets.org , and if your time permits kindly comment? From dalmaluf at yahoo.com Thu Oct 28 20:05:51 2010 From: dalmaluf at yahoo.com (Dal Maluf) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 04:05:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sustran] Operational costs for monorails In-Reply-To: <006001cb740b$0acf2140$206d63c0$@britton@ecoplan.org> Message-ID: <812842.45897.qm@web55808.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear friends, ? Some Brazilian cities were approached by international consultants trying to sell monorails for the World Cup and Olympic Games. Most of these projects were already abandoned as costs have skyrocket with the?developments of these projects. However, there are new Governors elected and around the country and some of them decided to study these possibilities again? New guys, new projects... I guess you all known that process... ? Does anyone have technical information or papers dealing with financial data?for?monorails operational and maintenance? ? Thank you very much, Adalberto USP?? ? From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Thu Oct 28 22:30:22 2010 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric britton) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 15:30:22 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Re: Operational costs for monorails (brrh) Message-ID: <02bc01cb76a4$4c2490d0$e46db270$@britton@ecoplan.org> Adelberto, I just had a look from World Streets where one of our Combined Search Engines scans all the hundred + linked programs and sources, and it turned up 138 references for monorails, a few of which might be useful. To get there: (a) go to www.WorldStreets.org, (b) scroll down the right menu to "Search all linked sources", and (c) pop in "monorail" with or without other keywords as you wish. Again no guarantees of course but perhaps worth a few minutes of you r time to scan. Good luck. Executive summary: Monorails suck (in cities). Eric Britton From edelman at greenidea.eu Sun Oct 31 05:29:47 2010 From: edelman at greenidea.eu (Todd Edelman) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 22:29:47 +0200 Subject: [sustran] USA: The connection between transportation and social justice Message-ID: <4CCC803B.70707@greenidea.eu> http://www.grist.org/article/2010-10-29-angela-glover-blackwell-talks-about-the-connection-between-trans Do the rights thing Angela Glover Blackwell talks about the connection between transportation and social justice by Sarah Goodyear 29 Oct 2010 9:51 AM "This issue is too important to be left to transportation professionals," says Angela Glover Blackwell. Angela Glover Blackwell would like to remind you that transportation is a civil rights issue. Blackwell is the founder and chief executive officer of PolicyLink, "a national research and action institute advancing economic and social equity." Their slogan is "Lifting Up What Works." They believe that the people at the grassroots, closest to the nation's problems, should be a central part of figuring out solutions. Transportation has emerged as a signature issue for PolicyLink. The group now chairs the newly formed Equity Caucus, part of Transportation for America, calling on federal policymakers to see equity and social justice as a key part of transportation planning. Blackwell recently was invited to the White House, along with many governors, mayors, and other elected officials, to give her perspective on President Obama's proposed $50 billion infrastructure plan. She was the only public policy advocate to attend. She talked to us by phone about how she was able to influence the discussion that day, about how public transit cuts are devastating to low-income Americans, and about the central role that transportation policy has always played in the struggle for civil rights. Q. How was it that you came to be invited to sit at that table with the president? A. I was thrilled to be invited to the table, and I'm quite sure that the reason that I was invited is because just the week before, PolicyLink and Transportation for America launched the Equity Caucus [see their principles here]. [At] that launch that nearly 200 people attended in the Cannon Office Building, Congressman Elijah Cummings (D-Md.) talked about transportation in a way that just made it so real. There were people there who had tears in their eyes, I understand, from listening to him talk about what transportation means to elderly people trying to get around, to mothers trying to earn a living. I think that [we were invited because of] our focus on people, our focus on equity, our focus on public transportation, and our determination that this issue is too important to be left to transportation professionals. Q. So there you were. Tell me what you were able to contribute. A. You probably saw the list of who attended. There were governors, mayors, transportation secretaries past and present, labor leaders. When the president came in, after greeting people and saying a couple of opening remarks, he said, "We're going to start off this conversation hearing from Gov. [Ed] Rendell [D-Penn.] and from Angela." So I was just so pleased to see the equity perspective frame the conversation right at the top. After my remarks, several people referred back to them. In particular, they picked up on the people focus. I think that those people who care about transportation have recognized that it is too often an insular conversation, and the people who are impacted most by the decisions aren't engaged at all. Q. You talk about creating an awareness that there are people who are constituents for public transportation. Do you see that increasing at the grassroots level? A. I am definitely seeing more engagement. We're seeing real concern in Chicago, in St. Louis, about the cutbacks in public transportation, what that means for people. The Transportation Equity Network is organizing all over to make sure that grassroots people in communities -- who are concerned about their livelihoods and their futures, and how little they're able to get out of their monthly incomes -- they're really getting involved. I think we're beginning to see the beginning of a movement stirring all across the country of people making their voices heard on this issue. Q. Could you talk about the importance of public transportation to people with lower incomes, working-class people? And how that figures into the larger economic picture? A. Yes. There are a couple of things I want to point out in that regard. One is that the bottom fifth of the nation, the poorest fifth of Americans, spend 42 percent of their annual household budget on an automobile budget, more than twice the national average. So for people who are poor, owning an automobile is a burdensome thing. Nearly 25 percent of African-Americans do not have access to a car, compared that with 7 percent of non-Hispanic whites. You have nearly the same number of Latinos who do not have access to a car. So this is huge, this is not an isolated problem. For people who are spending too much of their income -- over 40 percent just to own a car -- clearly this has a devastating impact on the economy in terms of all of the things that people cannot do and cannot participate in. For people who don't have access to cars and depend on public transportation, the current crisis is devastating. More than 110 cities have public transit routes that are at risk. Children can't get to school; people can't get to work. 80 percent of the nation's systems are either considering or have recently enacted fare increases or service cuts. But here's something else that Americans need to know. Spending on transit generates more jobs than spending on highways. If our nation's 20 metro areas shifted just 50 percent of their highways funds to transit, they would create over 1.1 million new transit-related jobs in over 5 years. That's without spending a single dollar more. Q. It strikes me that something strange has happened in this country, that now when people talk about public transit, we get a polarized political situation where people sometimes say, "Cars are what ordinary folks use. Investing in public transit, that's what this urban, sophisticated elite wants." A. I have heard that. Part of the reason is because there are two things going on in this country at the same time. One is that we have continuing, entrenched urban poverty, with the communities that have always been left behind continuing to be left behind. At the same time that we have that continuing harsh reality, we have many enlightened people living in metropolitan areas who recognize that for the sake of climate, we need to get out of our cars and use more public transportation, we need to live in denser communities, we need to connect in communities that are diverse and enjoy the cultural activities that reflect this nation. These people are often moving into cities -- Chicago, Washington, D.C., San Francisco, Manhattan in New York -- and enjoying the fruits of urban life, looking for safe, efficient public transit, and wanting to live near transit stops so that they can be more efficient in the use of their income. Often this is what people see as gentrification, and people in poor communities often fear that if a community starts to gentrify, they may be pushed out of the communities. What we have to remember is that the majority of people who use public transportation in this nation are people of color, low-income people. That is what keeps our system going. If we are going to begin to invest in it, we need to invest in it leading with equity, asking, How do we build modern public transportation systems that serve those people who have been the backbone of utilizing public transportation? Who need it, not because it's the smart thing to do, but it's the only thing for them to do in order to stretch their dollars and respond to their reality of not having a car? This notion that public transit is [only] for the affluent who are looking for a different lifestyle is a false notion. Q. I've heard you refer to access to transportation as a civil rights issue. I would like to hear you speak to that. A. It is interesting that transportation, in recent years, has not been framed as a civil rights issue, because most of the civil rights struggle in this country has centered around transportation, in one way or another, starting with Plessy v. Ferguson [in 1896]. That had to do with access to train cars. Then we have Rosa Parks sitting down on a bus. We had the Freedom Riders trying to do something to show that black people ought to be able to ride a bus across jurisdictions, they ought to be able to ride through the South on a bus without having to go to the back of the bus. The whole urban renewal, which people often call "black removal," because that's what happens, in the 60s, was a fight around highways coming in, going right through communities that had been vibrant, often destroying the financial district in an African-American community. So if you go all the way from Plessy v. Ferguson right up to the urban renewal, you will see that the fights have often been around transportation, and how transportation decisions have been made. Also the interstate highway system, the roads that have been built that allowed for the expansion from cities into suburbs, often had a devastating impact, as people abandoned city schools, and moved to suburban schools, leaving poor people of color in city schools, with fewer resources, less political clout, and often abandoning the neighborhoods and the infrastructure that made those neighborhoods strong. I think one of the things that the Equity Caucus is doing is bringing in the civil rights movement to once again reclaim the fairness issue involved in transportation policy thinking. Q. Anticipating what the Congress is going to look like after the midterm elections, what do you think the prospects are for advancing these arguments? A. I have been reading the past week the book Nixonland by Rick Perlstein. I'm just in the first quarter of it, and I have been struck by how it was not a bright line between Republicans and Democrats on some fundamental issues. There were liberal Republicans who were proud to be associated with the civil rights acts that were getting passed in the '60s. There were liberal Republicans who were real advocates for civil rights, even before those civil rights. I'm sure there were Republicans and Democrats who always agreed -- without even thinking about party lines -- when we were talking about the future of the nation and how important its infrastructure was to it. Infrastructure used to be one of those issues that did not divide, but pulled together. It ought to be obvious to anyone looking at the global economy that those nations with the infrastructure are the ones that are going to do the best. So while it is probably safe to assume that if the Congress becomes more Republican that having the support for infrastructure investment in public transportation will become a divisive issue, it's shocking to me. It shouldn't. Q. Well, there is a lot going on that really doesn't make any sense. A. It's too true. *** Sarah Goodyear is Grist?s cities editor. You can follow her Twitter feed at http://twitter.com/buttermilk1. -- Todd Edelman Green Idea Factory, a member of the OPENbike team Mobile: ++49(0)162 814 4081 edelman@greenidea.eu www.greenidea.eu todd@openbike.se www.openbike.se Skype: toddedelman Urbanstr. 45 10967 Berlin Germany *** OPENbike - Share the Perfect Fit! From peebeebarter at gmail.com Sun Oct 31 18:46:43 2010 From: peebeebarter at gmail.com (Paul Barter) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 17:46:43 +0800 Subject: [sustran] Fwd: [UTSG] Transitioning countries, traffic operations and demands for expensive engineering solutions In-Reply-To: <002201cb774a$7d60eb20$7822c160$@com> References: <320B8BAF46069042A2ACBDE32E04E84C1164426EF8@ICEXM1.ic.ac.uk> <002201cb774a$7d60eb20$7822c160$@com> Message-ID: This question (below) from the UK's UTSG list looks like a case that will be familiar to many sustran-discussers. Robert Bain might appreciate your insights, references or cases. I don't think he is on this list, so cc him if you direct your answers to sustran-discuss. Paul ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Robert Bain Date: 29 October 2010 17:20 Subject: [UTSG] Transitioning countries, traffic operations and demands for expensive engineering solutions To: UTSG@jiscmail.ac.uk Hi If any list member is familiar with the following situation, could you please get in touch with me on info@robbain.com Two congested intersections impede the flow of traffic heading towards (and away from) a city centre. There are local calls to grade-separate the intersections (expensive). But effective operations at the intersections are hampered by friction (eg. vendor stalls), uncontrolled parking, private minibuses stopping at random etc. Addressing these issues would go a long way to improving vehicle throughput - but local powers insist on their grand engineering solutions. There must be case-studies which have examined such situations - that could be used to counter the arguments for big engineering solutions. Otherwise we're not addressing the fundamental problem - and will soon face calls for other expensive design solutions to be developed at other pinch-points on the network. Any thoughts or references, any one? Regards, Rob From datar.ashok at gmail.com Sun Oct 31 19:57:53 2010 From: datar.ashok at gmail.com (ashok datar) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 16:27:53 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: Fwd: [UTSG] Transitioning countries, traffic operations and demands for expensive engineering solutions In-Reply-To: References: <320B8BAF46069042A2ACBDE32E04E84C1164426EF8@ICEXM1.ic.ac.uk> <002201cb774a$7d60eb20$7822c160$@com> Message-ID: we have worked some very simple solutions In Mumbai there are several flyovers which are parallel to the highway . under the flyovers supported by two columns , we find that there is a sufficient space between two columns for two cars to pass thru we have designed that this space should be used for right turning lanes pl see our website for this and other such simple solutions to improve the traffic calming www.mesn.org ashok datar On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 3:16 PM, Paul Barter wrote: > This question (below) from the UK's UTSG list looks like a case that will > be > familiar to many sustran-discussers. Robert Bain might appreciate your > insights, references or cases. I don't think he is on this list, so cc him > if you direct your answers to sustran-discuss. > > Paul > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Robert Bain > Date: 29 October 2010 17:20 > Subject: [UTSG] Transitioning countries, traffic operations and demands for > expensive engineering solutions > To: UTSG@jiscmail.ac.uk > > Hi > > If any list member is familiar with the following situation, could you > please get in touch with me on info@robbain.com > > Two congested intersections impede the flow of traffic heading towards (and > away from) a city centre. There are local calls to grade-separate the > intersections (expensive). But effective operations at the intersections > are hampered by friction (eg. vendor stalls), uncontrolled parking, private > minibuses stopping at random etc. Addressing these issues would go a long > way to improving vehicle throughput - but local powers insist on their > grand > engineering solutions. > > There must be case-studies which have examined such situations - that could > be used to counter the arguments for big engineering solutions. Otherwise > we're not addressing the fundamental problem - and will soon face calls for > other expensive design solutions to be developed at other pinch-points on > the network. > > Any thoughts or references, any one? > > Regards, > > Rob > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > -- Ashok R.Datar Mumbai Environmental Social Network 20 Madhavi, Makarand Society, S.V.S.Marg, Mahim-400 016 98676 65107/0222 444 9212 see our website : www.mesn.org * I hear, then I forget. I see, then I remember. I do, then I understand.* From alan at ourpeagreenboat.co.uk Sun Oct 31 19:44:28 2010 From: alan at ourpeagreenboat.co.uk (Alan P Howes) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 10:44:28 -0000 Subject: [sustran] Re: [UTSG] Transitioning countries, traffic operations and demands for expensive engineering solutions In-Reply-To: References: <320B8BAF46069042A2ACBDE32E04E84C1164426EF8@ICEXM1.ic.ac.uk> <002201cb774a$7d60eb20$7822c160$@com> Message-ID: <000b01cb78e8$98246960$c86d3c20$@co.uk> Unfortunately, Rob, the problem is political, not technical. The location you describe could well be India - last time I was there (planning buses in Mumbai), I found myself participating in an anti-[new] road demo in Pune, along with Sujit Patwardhan, a name you may recognise. I have never found it necessary to attend such a demo in the UK! Regards, Alan -- Alan P Howes Alan Howes Associates, Transport Consultant Dunblane, Perthshire, Scotland UK email: alanhowesworld@gmail.com tel: +44 (0)1786 822974 mobile UK: +44 (0)7952 464335 mobile UAE: +971 (0)50 153 5088 This question (below) from the UK's UTSG list looks like a case that will be familiar to many sustran-discussers. Robert Bain might appreciate your insights, references or cases. I don't think he is on this list, so cc him if you direct your answers to sustran-discuss. Paul ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Robert Bain Date: 29 October 2010 17:20 Subject: [UTSG] Transitioning countries, traffic operations and demands for expensive engineering solutions To: UTSG@jiscmail.ac.uk Hi If any list member is familiar with the following situation, could you please get in touch with me on info@robbain.com Two congested intersections impede the flow of traffic heading towards (and away from) a city centre. There are local calls to grade-separate the intersections (expensive). But effective operations at the intersections are hampered by friction (eg. vendor stalls), uncontrolled parking, private minibuses stopping at random etc. Addressing these issues would go a long way to improving vehicle throughput - but local powers insist on their grand engineering solutions. There must be case-studies which have examined such situations - that could be used to counter the arguments for big engineering solutions. Otherwise we're not addressing the fundamental problem - and will soon face calls for other expensive design solutions to be developed at other pinch-points on the network. Any thoughts or references, any one? Regards, Rob -------------------------------------------------------- To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss -------------------------------------------------------- If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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