[sustran] Re: Is park-and-ride a bad idea for Asian cities?

[Todd Edelman]

Hi,

Just to add one thing: It seems clear that parking should be restricted 
or impossible (except for residents) within a few hundred metres of any 
new stations, or drivers will just create their own informal park & 
ride, or of create incentive for some clever, private landowner to build 
a lot themselves...

- T

On 05/13/2010 05:58 PM, Karthik Rao Cavale wrote:
> Mr. Jain,
>
> You have not elaborated on your argument for park&  ride facilities in
> Mumbai, but I would strongly oppose it for several reasons. Let me explain:
>
> a) As a transportation planner, one is expected to put himself in the shoes
> of the "aam aadmi" (the typical person/user). Planning based on
> *your*experience and needs alone is bad planning, very very bad
> planning,
> especially when you are very far removed from the common man.
>
> Now, consider this. Automobile ownership in Bombay is very low for a city
> given its relative economic prosperity by Indian standards. A very large
> majority of people either walk to the station or transfer from another mode
> of public transport - possibly an auto-rickshaw or a bus. By adding a park
> and ride, you either require buses to make detours to drop passengers just
> outside the station or for passengers to walk a longer distance. For people
> walking to the station, you're putting more distance between the station and
> the nearest development - which means more walking.
>
> Essentially, for the sake of a very small number of vehicle owners who may
> or may not end up using the park and ride, you're taxing a whole lot of
> bus-users and pedestrians in terms of time.
>
> b) If, god forbid, my previous statement turns out to be wrong and people
> start shifting from buses to two-wheelers because it is now possible to park
> at the metro station, then you'll end up choking the roads in the suburbs -
> which will defeat the entire purpose of spending billions on the metro! It
> will make roads even more unsafe, and worsen living conditions for those who
> have no choice but to walk or cycle.
>
> c) You speak of unsafe roads as if that is a constant that cannot be
> changed. If that were the case, then I might grudgingly understand your
> support for park-and-ride facilities.
>
> But roads CAN be made safer for pedestrians and cyclists. To do so, we need
> to create sidewalks, and we need to create curb-separated cycle lanes and we
> need to enforce laws, but it can be done.
>
> d) To the extent that a park-and-ride offers some relief to some persons in
> the middle class (while worsening the problems of the poor), that is even
> worse, because it only reduces the pressure on governments to solve the
> common problems that need to be solved for the sake of all residents in the
> city.
>
> What we really need is a coordinated policy that will discourage cars and
> two-wheelers - for the sake of safety, for the sake of mobility and access
> for all, for the sake of efficiency even. That is the way we go from the
> not-so-good present to a better future. Providing a metro with a
> park-and-ride may go one step in this direction, as it probably does some
> service to reducing the number of trips carried out entirely by private
> transport, but it takes us two steps backward because now there will be so
> much more traffic on the suburban roads in Charkop and Andheri. In the
> process, it excacerbates the inequalities in the transportation system, by
> forcing pedestrians and bus-users to make longer, more unsafe, and more
> inconvenient trips (think of the pollution on the roads), while giving the
> middle class a modicum of relief - and that too only when they are using
> their vehicles. Many people in the middle class don't drive - old people,
> women and children tend to make short trips entirely by walk or cycle, and
> the situation arising out of the metro-cum-park-and-ride will only make
> their lives even more difficult.
>
> I will not speak of the third world in general - we plan for places, and
> places cannot be generalized. But in the specific context of Bombay, and the
> metro coming up between Charkop and Ghatkopar, I can say with certainty that
> a park-and-ride will only result in disaster.
>
> On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 9:46 AM, Zvi Leve<zvi.leve at gmail.com>  wrote:
>
>    
>> In my opinion, Park&  Ride should only be considered a temporary stage of
>> development, unless it is provided within the context of much denser
>> development (ie muli-level parking with other intense land-uses). Massive
>> parking lots surrounding a single mass-transit node is not "development" -
>> it is anti-development! Would you enjoy walking across this beautiful
>> parking lot<http://www.flickr.com/photos/zvileve/4600137869/>  to get to
>> the
>> equally beautiful light-rail station? In the scorching heat? Most of the
>> day
>> these lots are filled with cars and at night they completely empty. This is
>> just not sustainable.
>>
>> Why not develop some *quality* commercial and service points in close
>> proximity to the station, plop down four big towers on top (two
>> residential,
>> two for offices) at each corner to act as 'anchors'  and create a vibrant
>> activity node which will have demand for mass-transit throughout the day. I
>> appreciate thta the trends in most of these "newly motorizing" countries is
>> away from anything that reminds people of density ("I have made it - I have
>> my car"), but there are other forms of "development" which might even be
>> sustainable.....
>>
>> There is an interesting article in a recent issue of the journal Mobilities
>> by John Rennie Short and Luis Mauricio Pinet-Peralto about the epidemic of
>> traffic accidents in cities in the "developing" world. The name is very
>> appropriate (the "no accident" part) - No Accident: Traffic and Pedestrians
>> in the Modern City<
>> http://prod.informaworld.com/smpp/section?content=a917906422&fulltext=713240928
>>      
>>>        
>> .
>>
>> Good luck selling that argument....
>>
>> Zvi
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Todd Edelman
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