From litman at vtpi.org Thu Jul 1 07:01:32 2010 From: litman at vtpi.org (Todd Alexander Litman) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 15:01:32 -0700 Subject: [sustran] Smart Oil Spill Policy Response - VTPI News Special Edition Message-ID: <20100630221215.D0C702DCD2@mx-list.jca.ne.jp> --------------------------- Smart Oil Spill Policy Response VTPI NEWS Special Edition --------------------------- Victoria Transport Policy Institute "Efficiency - Equity - Clarity" ------------------------------------- June 2010 ----------------------------------- The Victoria Transport Policy Institute (VTPI) is an independent research organization dedicated to developing innovative solutions to transportation problems. The VTPI website (http://www.vtpi.org ) has many resources addressing a wide range of transport policy and planning issues. VTPI also provides consulting services. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Deep Water Horizon catastrophic oil spill is the latest in a series of problems that result from transportation system inefficiency. This special Newsletter highlights some of VTPI's research on oil consumption external costs and smart transportation energy conservation strategies. Sacrificing Pelicans To Petroleum Gods: Deep Water Horizon Spill Forces Energy Policy Rethink (http://www.planetizen.com/node/44891 ). "Many ancient religions required animal sacrifice to satisfy their gods' desires. We now sacrifice pelicans, marine mammals and sea turtles to satisfy our desire for cheap oil." This new Planetizen blog discusses the roots of catastrophic oil spills, the costs to society of resource inefficient transportation systems, and implications for transport energy policy. Resource Consumption External Costs (http://www.vtpi.org/tca/tca0512.pdf ) This newly revised chapter from our report Transportation Cost and Benefit Analysis (http://www.vtpi.org/tca ) provides detailed analysis of the full external costs of resource (mainly petroleum) consumption, and therefore the full benefits of energy conservation policies. These externalities include macroeconomic costs of importing petroleum, military costs of maintaining access to foreign petroleum resources, environmental costs of producing, processing and distributing fuel, and various subsidies. It includes recent estimates of oil spill environmental costs, and a new section that discusses implications of these costs for optimal energy policy and pricing. "Smart Transportation Emission Reduction Strategies" (http://www.vtpi.org/ster.pdf ) This report investigates the optimal (best overall, taking into account all benefits and costs) transportation emission reduction strategies. Current evaluation methods tend to undervalue mobility management (also called Transportation Demand Management or TDM) strategies that increase transport system efficiency by changing travel behavior, due to biases that include (1) ignorance about these strategies; (2) failure to consider co-benefits; (3) failure to consider rebound effects of increased fuel economy; (4) belief that mobility management impacts are difficult to predict; (5) belief that mobility management programs are difficult to implement; and (6) belief that vehicle travel reductions harm consumers and the economy. More comprehensive and objective analysis tends to rank mobility management strategies among the most cost-effective emission reduction options. This report describes ways to correct current planning bias so mobility management solutions can be implemented to the degree optimal. "Win-Win Transportation Emission Reduction Strategies" (http://www.vtpi.org/wwclimate.pdf ) Win-Win Transportation Solutions are cost-effective, technically feasible market reforms that solve transportation problems by improving mobility options and removing market distortions that cause excessive motor vehicle travel. They provide many economic, social and environmental benefits. If implemented to the degree economically justified, Win-Win Solutions could achieve the transport component of Kyoto emission reduction targets while helping to address problems such as traffic congestion, accidents and inadequate mobility for non-drivers, and supporting economic development. This paper discusses the Win-Win concept and describes various Win-Win strategies. "Fuel Taxes" (http://www.vtpi.org/tdm/tdm17.htm ) This chapter of our Online TDM Encyclopedia (http://www.vtpi.org/tdm ) discusses various reasons to increase fuel taxes, fuel price impacts on travel and energy consumption, and fuel tax increase implementation strategies. Sincerely, Todd Alexander Litman Victoria Transport Policy Institute (www.vtpi.org) litman@vtpi.org Phone & Fax 250-360-1560 1250 Rudlin Street, Victoria, BC, V8V 3R7, CANADA "Efficiency - Equity - Clarity" From kanthikannan at gmail.com Thu Jul 1 15:03:33 2010 From: kanthikannan at gmail.com (Kanthi Kannan) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 11:33:33 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: Right to Walk Annual General Body Meeting on July 3, 2010: Afternoon at 3 PM : Venue: Goethe Zentrum Message-ID: <4c2c2fd4.0bf4720a.7381.ffff995d@mx.google.com> Goethe-Zentrum Hyderabad Association for German Culture 203 Hermitage Office Complex, Hill Fort Road, Nampally Hyderabad 500 063 India Tel. +91 40 65526443 Dear all Greetings!! Please Treat This as a Personal Invitation and Support the Cause. And Please Pass the News Around Thanks Details are as follows Venue: Goethe Zentrum (Address Given Above) Opposite Kalanjali :-) Date: July 3, 2010 Time: From 3 PM to about 4: 30 PM Agenda 1. The new members' introduction 2. 7/ 10 min ppt about R2W 3. A brain storming exercise about what R2W needs to do in the next year: 30 min: and as usual brain storming rules apply; 4. Plan in Place that can be implemented If you are not in Hyderabad, please do let your friends and relatives know about the meeting If you could confirm your attendance, it would be great and help us to make our arrangements. Regards Kanthi Kannan The Right to Walk Foundation THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT WALK From kanthikannan at gmail.com Fri Jul 2 16:28:20 2010 From: kanthikannan at gmail.com (Kanthi Kannan) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 12:58:20 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: Pollution In Hyderabad: TOI, Hyd edition Message-ID: <4c2d951e.0541730a.57a8.21af@mx.google.com> Dear all The Times of India dated July 2, 2010 carried this article. Everybody knows that Flyovers are Useless Yet Hyderabad is determined to build more of them. Why? What do we do to ensure that the funds are used for the Right Purpose?? Read on .. Kanthi Kannan THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT WALK HYDERABAD: The one-km-long branched out flyover at Punjagutta, meant to ease traffic and lower pollution levels, has been of little help in bringing down pollution levels at the busy junction. The respirable suspended particulate matter (RSPM) is above normal levels (i.e 100 microgram (mg)/cubic metre (m3), while noise levels are also above average value at the junction. The AP Pollution Control Board (APPCB) collects Air Quality Data summary report on pollution levels every day at various places in the city, including environmentally-sensitive areas like Zoo Park and KBR Park. Apart from RSPM and TSPM, the levels of sulphur dioxide, oxides of nitrogen and carbon monoxide in the air are taken for study. Disproving the popular opinion that urban infrastructure such as flyovers would reduce pollution levels apart from avoiding traffic congestion, the pollution levels are soaring higher every year. Traffic problems too have not eased at several places despite these flyovers. According to APPCB pollution data, RSPM at Punjagutta was 114 mg/m3 in February 2008. The latest analysis shows that RSPM levels are at 105 mg/m3 in May, 111 mg/m3 in April 2010 and 114 mg/m3 in March. For total suspended particulate matter (TSPM), the levels are also above normal levels (i.e 200 mg/m3) at the junction. While TSPM at Punjagutta was 333 mg/m3 in February 2008, there was a slight variations with 312, 326 and 329 mg/m3 TSPM in May, April and March 2010 respectively. The noise levels were 72 decibels (dB) during the daytime against the standard level of 65 dB and during nights it was recorded at 90 dB which is considered very high. APPCB officials said the noise levels were alarming at Zoo Park and KBR Park where it was recorded at 70 dB during daytime and 80 dB during nights. The night levels are high due to heavy vehicular movement. Interestingly, surrounding areas like Kukatpally and Langar Houz have emerged as highly polluted areas in the Greater Hyderabad area. In 2008, the RSPM and TSPM levels at Kukatpally was 95 and 281 mg/m3. Now, pollution levels have risen to 114 and 356 (highest in the city) respectively. APPCB officials said the RSPM and TSPM levels are constantly above standard levels in Kukatpally. Similarly, Langar Houz also recorded 113 mg/m3 RSPM and 324 mg/m3 TSPM levels in May 2010. The RSPM and TSPM levels were 131 and 370 in April 2010 which were highest in the city. "The levels of RSPM and TSPM are on the rise in the surrounding areas due to construction activity, heavy vehicular movement and traffic congestion," APPCB joint chief environmental scientist K V Ramani told TOI. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hyderabad/Flyover-of-no-help-to-chec k-pollution/articleshow/6117429.cms From joshirutul at yahoo.co.in Fri Jul 2 19:24:13 2010 From: joshirutul at yahoo.co.in (Rutul Joshi) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 15:54:13 +0530 (IST) Subject: [sustran] Commuters pain study In-Reply-To: <4c2d951e.0541730a.57a8.21af@mx.google.com> References: <4c2d951e.0541730a.57a8.21af@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <195959.26757.qm@web8402.mail.in.yahoo.com> Hi, I came across this ?interesting? study done by IBM (!) and thought of sharing it with everyone. Here is the link:http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/32017.wss#resource This study is making big headlines in Indian newspapers. It is a big 'news' that Delhi is world?s fifth worst city for the commuters after spending billions of dollars in 'solving' traffic problems! It is not quite clear to me why IBM is interested in this kind of study. Probably they are eying the market share in the ITS applications! Best, Rutul Rutul Joshi, PhD researcher Centre for Transport & Society University of the West of England BRISTOL BS16 1QY www.transport.uwe.ac.uk From sudhir at cai-asia.org Fri Jul 2 19:30:44 2010 From: sudhir at cai-asia.org (Sudhir) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 18:30:44 +0800 Subject: [sustran] Re: Commuters pain study In-Reply-To: <195959.26757.qm@web8402.mail.in.yahoo.com> References: <4c2d951e.0541730a.57a8.21af@mx.google.com> <195959.26757.qm@web8402.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Rutul, The problem with that study is that it considers commuting as driving . More than 1/3 trips are NMT related... see my blog on this - http://transport-solutions.blogspot.com/2010/07/commuter-pain-survey-is-driving-painful.html regards Sudhir On 2 July 2010 18:24, Rutul Joshi wrote: > Hi, > > I came across this ?interesting? study done by IBM (!) and thought of > sharing it > with everyone. Here is the > link:http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/32017.wss#resource > > This study is making big headlines in Indian newspapers. It is a big 'news' > that > Delhi is world?s fifth worst city for the commuters after spending billions > of > dollars in 'solving' traffic problems! > > It is not quite clear to me why IBM is interested in this kind of study. > Probably they are eying the market share in the ITS applications! > > Best, > Rutul Rutul Joshi, > PhD researcher > Centre for Transport & Society > University of the West of England > BRISTOL BS16 1QY > www.transport.uwe.ac.uk > > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). -- Sudhir Gota Transport Specialist CAI-Asia Center Unit 3510, 35th Floor, Robinsons-Equitable Tower, ADB Avenue, Ortigas Center, Pasig City Metro Manila, Philippines 1605 Tel: +63-2-395-2843, Fax: +63-2-395-2846 www.cleanairinitiative.org Skype : sudhirgota From cornie.huizenga at slocatpartnership.org Fri Jul 2 19:37:09 2010 From: cornie.huizenga at slocatpartnership.org (Cornie Huizenga) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 18:37:09 +0800 Subject: [sustran] Re: Commuters pain study In-Reply-To: References: <4c2d951e.0541730a.57a8.21af@mx.google.com> <195959.26757.qm@web8402.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Sudhir and Rutul, It does not include public transport either. Cornie On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 6:30 PM, Sudhir wrote: > Hi Rutul, > > The problem with that study is that it considers commuting as driving . > More > than 1/3 trips are NMT related... > > see my blog on this - > > http://transport-solutions.blogspot.com/2010/07/commuter-pain-survey-is-driving-painful.html > > < > http://transport-solutions.blogspot.com/2010/07/commuter-pain-survey-is-driving-painful.html > > > regards > Sudhir > > On 2 July 2010 18:24, Rutul Joshi wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I came across this ?interesting? study done by IBM (!) and thought of > > sharing it > > with everyone. Here is the > > link:http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/32017.wss#resource > > > > This study is making big headlines in Indian newspapers. It is a big > 'news' > > that > > Delhi is world?s fifth worst city for the commuters after spending > billions > > of > > dollars in 'solving' traffic problems! > > > > It is not quite clear to me why IBM is interested in this kind of study. > > Probably they are eying the market share in the ITS applications! > > > > Best, > > Rutul Rutul Joshi, > > PhD researcher > > Centre for Transport & Society > > University of the West of England > > BRISTOL BS16 1QY > > www.transport.uwe.ac.uk > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > > > ================================================================ > > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > > (the 'Global South'). > > > > > -- > Sudhir Gota > Transport Specialist > CAI-Asia Center > Unit 3510, 35th Floor, Robinsons-Equitable Tower, > ADB Avenue, Ortigas Center, Pasig City > Metro Manila, Philippines 1605 > Tel: +63-2-395-2843, Fax: +63-2-395-2846 > www.cleanairinitiative.org > Skype : sudhirgota > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > -- Cornie Huizenga Joint Convener Partnership on Sustainable, Low Carbon Transport Mobile: +86 13901949332 cornie.huizenga@slocatpartnership.org www.slocat.net From joshirutul at yahoo.co.in Fri Jul 2 20:18:24 2010 From: joshirutul at yahoo.co.in (Rutul Joshi) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 16:48:24 +0530 (IST) Subject: [sustran] Re: Commuters pain study In-Reply-To: References: <4c2d951e.0541730a.57a8.21af@mx.google.com> <195959.26757.qm@web8402.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <11893.61406.qm@web8403.mail.in.yahoo.com> Hi Cornie and Sudhir, I agree absolutely. Such studies are used to continue the business as-usual - reaffirming to the 'newspapers reading class' that we need to spend billions on flyovers and heavy transport infrastructure to 'save' you from this. More over in conclusion it positions the problems with information systems as the main problem paving the ground for IBM to step-in! I am also bit vary of terms such as 'globalisation of traffic congestion'. When did that happen? Traffic congestions happen since the birth of motorisation - much before the birth of the term 'globalisation'. But essentially, these terms are used to bring in the 'global solutions' at the door steps of these cities. regards, Rutul ________________________________ From: Cornie Huizenga To: Sudhir Cc: Rutul Joshi ; Sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org Sent: Fri, 2 July, 2010 11:37:09 AM Subject: Re: [sustran] Re: Commuters pain study Sudhir and Rutul, It does not include public transport either. Cornie On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 6:30 PM, Sudhir wrote: Hi Rutul, > >The problem with that study is that it considers commuting as driving . More >than 1/3 trips are NMT related... > >see my blog on this - >http://transport-solutions.blogspot.com/2010/07/commuter-pain-survey-is-driving-painful.html > > > > >regards >Sudhir > > >On 2 July 2010 18:24, Rutul Joshi wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I came across this ?interesting? study done by IBM (!) and thought of >> sharing it >> with everyone. Here is the >> link:http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/32017.wss#resource >> >> This study is making big headlines in Indian newspapers. It is a big 'news' >> that >> Delhi is world?s fifth worst city for the commuters after spending billions >> of >> dollars in 'solving' traffic problems! >> >> It is not quite clear to me why IBM is interested in this kind of study. >> Probably they are eying the market share in the ITS applications! >> >> Best, >> Rutul Rutul Joshi, >> PhD researcher >> Centre for Transport & Society >> University of the West of England >> BRISTOL BS16 1QY >> www.transport.uwe.ac.uk >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real >> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >> >> ================================================================ >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries >> (the 'Global South'). > > > > >-- >Sudhir Gota >Transport Specialist >CAI-Asia Center >Unit 3510, 35th Floor, Robinsons-Equitable Tower, >ADB Avenue, Ortigas Center, Pasig City >Metro Manila, Philippines 1605 >Tel: +63-2-395-2843, Fax: +63-2-395-2846 >www.cleanairinitiative.org >Skype : sudhirgota > >-------------------------------------------------------- >To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > >-------------------------------------------------------- >If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real >sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > >================================================================ >SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable >and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global >South'). > -- Cornie Huizenga Joint Convener Partnership on Sustainable, Low Carbon Transport Mobile: +86 13901949332 cornie.huizenga@slocatpartnership.org www.slocat.net From kanthikannan at gmail.com Fri Jul 2 20:28:16 2010 From: kanthikannan at gmail.com (Kanthi Kannan) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 16:58:16 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: Solutions ?? In-Reply-To: <11893.61406.qm@web8403.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4c2dcd59.0fff8c0a.108c.2f81@mx.google.com> Dear all Greetings!! All of us are talking about the core issues but what about the way ahead. Can we as a group influence decision making? Can we try to get at least a few walkways done + a few pedestrian crossings installed? Or can we get the minister Mr. Jaipal Reddy talk about "How he intends encouraging the use of PT and not talk about the benefits of the metro rail?? So I think that we as a group have the power to ensure that " Walkways are actually made and funds are used for the right purposes" Thanks Regards Kanthi Kannan -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+kanthikannan=gmail.com@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+kanthikannan=gmail.com@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of Rutul Joshi Sent: 02 July 2010 16:48 To: Cornie Huizenga; Sudhir Cc: Sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org Subject: [sustran] Re: Commuters pain study Hi Cornie and Sudhir, I agree absolutely. Such studies are used to continue the business as-usual - reaffirming to the 'newspapers reading class' that we need to spend billions on flyovers and heavy transport infrastructure to 'save' you from this. More over in conclusion it positions the problems with information systems as the main problem paving the ground for IBM to step-in! I am also bit vary of terms such as 'globalisation of traffic congestion'. When did that happen? Traffic congestions happen since the birth of motorisation - much before the birth of the term 'globalisation'. But essentially, these terms are used to bring in the 'global solutions' at the door steps of these cities. regards, Rutul ________________________________ From: Cornie Huizenga To: Sudhir Cc: Rutul Joshi ; Sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org Sent: Fri, 2 July, 2010 11:37:09 AM Subject: Re: [sustran] Re: Commuters pain study Sudhir and Rutul, It does not include public transport either. Cornie On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 6:30 PM, Sudhir wrote: Hi Rutul, > >The problem with that study is that it considers commuting as driving . More >than 1/3 trips are NMT related... > >see my blog on this - >http://transport-solutions.blogspot.com/2010/07/commuter-pain-survey-is-dri ving-painful.html > > > > >regards >Sudhir > > >On 2 July 2010 18:24, Rutul Joshi wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I came across this 'interesting' study done by IBM (!) and thought of >> sharing it >> with everyone. Here is the >> link:http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/32017.wss#resource >> >> This study is making big headlines in Indian newspapers. It is a big 'news' >> that >> Delhi is world's fifth worst city for the commuters after spending billions >> of >> dollars in 'solving' traffic problems! >> >> It is not quite clear to me why IBM is interested in this kind of study. >> Probably they are eying the market share in the ITS applications! >> >> Best, >> Rutul Rutul Joshi, >> PhD researcher >> Centre for Transport & Society >> University of the West of England >> BRISTOL BS16 1QY >> www.transport.uwe.ac.uk >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real >> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >> >> ================================================================ >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries >> (the 'Global South'). > > > > >-- >Sudhir Gota >Transport Specialist >CAI-Asia Center >Unit 3510, 35th Floor, Robinsons-Equitable Tower, >ADB Avenue, Ortigas Center, Pasig City >Metro Manila, Philippines 1605 >Tel: +63-2-395-2843, Fax: +63-2-395-2846 >www.cleanairinitiative.org >Skype : sudhirgota > >-------------------------------------------------------- >To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > >-------------------------------------------------------- >If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real >sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > >================================================================ >SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable >and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global >South'). > -- Cornie Huizenga Joint Convener Partnership on Sustainable, Low Carbon Transport Mobile: +86 13901949332 cornie.huizenga@slocatpartnership.org www.slocat.net -------------------------------------------------------- To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss -------------------------------------------------------- If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From sutp at sutp.org Fri Jul 2 21:13:58 2010 From: sutp at sutp.org (SUTP Team) Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2010 17:43:58 +0530 Subject: [sustran] SUTP Newsletter May - June 2010 Message-ID: <4C2DD806.1080504@sutp.org> ****** SUTP Newsletter ****** ****** Issue 03/10 May - June 2010 ****** A PDF version of the newsletter can be downloaded from http://www.sutp.org/documents/newsletters/NL-MAY-JUN-2010.pdf An online version is also available at http://www.sutp.org/newsletters/NL-May-June-10.html ***** Recent News from GTZ-SUTP ***** Johannesburg on the move during the Soccer World Cup For the Soccer World Cup, the organizers expected thousands of fans from all over the world in Johannesburg. The city has become a meeting point for people from different countries and cultures, all connected to each other by their passion for the same sport. The good news is that the thousands of visitors to the four million metropolis do not need to worry about getting to the two stadiums, Soccer City and Ellis Park, in the quickest, safest and most comfortable way. Commissioned by the German Federal Government, the Kreditanstalt f?r Wiederaufbau (KfW) Bankengruppe financed the planning of a new public transport system in Johannesburg and the German Technical Cooperation (GTZ) is advising the City of Johannesburg on the planning and the construction of its Bus Rapid Transit System (BRTS), which is envisaged to benefit all users, especially the urban poor. Read more : http://www.sutp.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2117 --------------- Rea Vaya (Johannesburg) was the winner all the way With the soccer mania on, passengers on the Rea Vaya BRT found it a delight to travel in the brand new public transport system in the city, while car and train users struggled to reach the match venues on time due to delays. Users reported that travelling on buses running on dedicated lanes was "hassle-free" and "efficient", and much preferable to using cars, especially during such an event, when the city was experiencing serious gridlocks. They found the BRT cheap, convenient and quick. Read more : http://www.sutp.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2153 Also see some recent photos of the BRT Johannesburg : http://www.sutp.org/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=viewcategory&catid=7&Itemid=181&lang=en --------------- UPCOMING TRAINING COURSE: GTZ training course to precede the International Public Transport Conference 2010, Kuching, Malayasia in August The Malaysian Institute of Planners (Sarawak and Sabah Chapter) is organising an "International Public Transport Conference" from the 2-6th August 2010 (2 days workshop and 2.5 days conference), in Kuching, Sarawak, Malaysia. The focus will be on the practical strategies, collaboration of stakeholders and exchange of workable ideas that will assist the conference participants in carrying out the works - ranging from the planning of the urban transport strategies to the implementation of urban transport projects. The Conference will be preceded by a two day training session to be led by GTZ, which will focus on issues related to the planning and implementation of sustainable public transportation systems. Read more (for registration and program): http://www.sutp.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2105 --------------- GTZ SUTP participates in Velo-city 2010 in Copenhagen Carlosfelipe Pardo on behalf of GTZ SUTP facilitated a roundtable discussion during Velo-city Global 2010 in Copenhagen on June 23rd 2010. Velo-city is a worldwide event where all cycling-related topics are discussed with experts from around the world. The discussion/presentation was entitled "Bicycle policy in Bogot? ten years after ?the golden era?:the challenge of being an example". Read more : http://www.sutp.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2181 --------------- GTZ transport team at ?The heat is on ? Climate change and the media? The Deutsche Welle Global Media Forum with its motto ?The heat is on ? Climate change and the media? took place from June 21-23 in Bonn, Germany. The Forum brought together media representatives and key-figures from the world of politics, culture, business, development cooperation and science. The aim was to develop strategies within an interdisciplinary framework regarding the challenges of climate change. Mr. Daniel Bongardt, transport policy advisor at GTZ, attended the Forum and organized the workshop ?Beyond clean congestion? ? Pathways for Sustainable Mobility?. Read more : http://www.sutp.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2185&Itemid=1&lang=en --------------- Bridging the Gap Workshop on June 8th A Bridging the Gap workshop entitled "Climate change and development in the transport sector: What do you need to achieve GHG mitigation from land transport" was held on 8th June, 2010. The workshop was hosted by GTZ in parallel to the UNFCCC climate change negotiations in Bonn and was attended by almost 80 policy makers, academics and consultants working both within and external to the transport sector. Read more : http://www.sutp.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2147 --------------- ADB Transport Forum, Manila, 25-27 May 2010 Ministers, key decision makers from industry, top researchers and representatives of civil society from more than 30 countries came together at the 2010 ADB Transport Forum in Manila, Philippines, from 25-27 May, where they discussed and debated on the theme "Changing Course for the Transport Sector." Mr. Manfred Breithaupt, Senior Transport Advisor, GTZ, and Project Director of GTZ's Sustainable Urban Transport Project (SUTP), participated in the ADB Transport Forum and co-organized a session on 'Capacity Building for Sustainable Urban Transport in Asia'. Read more : http://www.sutp.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2088 --------------- Winners of the Award for Outstanding Innovation in Public Transport Announced The winners of their joint Award for Outstanding Innovation in Public Transport were announced on 27th May, 2010 by the International Transport Forum (ITF) and the International Association of Public Transport (UITP). The objective of this award was to acknowledge innovative public transport projects or initiative(s) that specifically address quality of service; sustainability of the public transport system; intermodal interfaces, and collaboration and leadership for innovation within the public transport sector. Read more : http://www.sutp.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2103 --------------- Former German President addressed global mobility summit The former German President Horst K?hler was among the list of prominent speakers and panelists who attended the third International Transport Forum, from 26-28 May in Leipzig, Germany. Read more : http://www.sutp.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2022 --------------- The Future of Mobility - Shanghai Expo, 24-26 May, 2010 The City of Bremen and GTZ presented three workshops at the ?The Future of Mobility - Options for Sustainable Transport in a Low Carbon Society" at the Bremen Stand in the Urban Best Practice Area at the Shanghai Expo from May 24th to 26th, 2010. The workshops focused on three key topics for sustainable urban transport- ?Transport and Urban Development?, ?Low Carbon Mobility for Cities? and ?The Role of Electric Vehicles?. More than 80 participants attended the event. Mr. Manfred Breithaupt, Senior Transport Advisor, GTZ, and Project Director of GTZ's Sustainable Urban Transport Project (SUTP) made a presentation ?Towards Livable Cities- International Experiences? at the workshop. Read more : http://www.sutp.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1976 --------------- Side Event of the German Government on May 12th, 2010 Main trends and drivers of the global transport development and their impacts and challenges to resolve the problems were discussed during a Side Event of the German Government at CSD18 titled "Getting Transport on Track - Global Challenges and Initiatives on Technology Innovation Solutions and Capacity Development". Mr. Daniel Bongardt, Transport Policy Advisor, GTZ, made a presentation on 'Sustainable Urban Transport in Developing Countries ? Examples from Indonesia and South Africa'. Read more : http://www.sutp.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2104 --------------- Transport at CSD 18, May 3-14, in New York This year CSD 18 conducted a review of barriers and constraints in implementation as well as lessons learned and best practices in five focus areas this year, of which transport was one. As transport does not usually fall under any other international body's mandate for policy coordination, this event and process was a unique opportunity to flag issues in this sector, which is so important from the viewpoint of sustainable development today. Read more : http://www.sutp.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2069 ****** Publications ***** Informal Public Transport: Recommended Reading and Links In most developing cities, informal public transport or paratransit or Intermediate Public Transport (IPT), is an important component of their overall transport services. Compared to formal public transport services, paratransit vehicles can be more accessible, faster, at times cheaper and reliable. On the other hand, they are often unregulated, in oversupply, environmentally unclean, unsafe and unaccountable and hence unpredictable. Since the quality of public transport services is essential for measuring liveability of cities, the role of informal public transport becomes debatable as it faces increasing pressure/competition to upgrade its services and to integrate with the formal public transport system. This reading list released by GTZ, provides a comprehensive overview of relevant literature on the subject of informal public transport, and includes topics like regulation, integration, and some useful case studies. Read more : http://www.sutp.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2163 --------------- Transport Demand Management (TDM) module now translated to Bahasa Indonesia Authored by Todd Litman, Andrea Broaddus and Gopinath Menon, this document focuses on strategies for implementing TDM measures and on formulating related policies. Cities contemplating solutions to solve their urban transport problems, will find this training document useful while making policy and other decisions. This document has been now translated into Bahasa Indonesia and is available for download. Read more : http://www.sutp.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2162 --------------- Reading List on Public Transport Integration Updated This updated reading list released by GTZ aims at providing the reader with an overview of relevant literature on Public Transport Integration. Issues range from organizational and institutional aspects ? e.g. how integration of different operators can be achieved and which role authorities may play ? to more technical aspects, such as the development of integrated ticketing systems. The reading list also includes best practices and projects on public transport integration from countries around the world. Read more : http://www.sutp.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2017 --------------- Module 5F: Adapting Urban Transport to Climate Change now in Spanish This module of the GTZ Sourcebook for Decision-Makers in Developing Cities is intended to raise awareness and describes the expected impacts of climate change on urban passenger transport as well as possible adaptation measures. It was formally launched at the Climate Conference in Copenhagen (COP15). The module is now available also in Spanish. Read more : http://www.sutp.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2038 --------------- Mission Report from the Bus Conference on Fuelling Public Transport, 6th UITP International Bus Conference, June 11, 2010 Outcomes of this conference targeted at improving bus image and usage shares is discussed in the Mission Report. Read more : http://www.uitp.org/events/2010/lyon/pdf/Missionreportfinal%28Lyon%29.pdf --------------- Organisation and major players of short distance public transport in Europe: New developments in the European Union (Updated and revised edition: May 2010) The new edition of the brochure published by the UITP European Union Committee, presents the organisation of public transport in the 27 member states of the European Union. Read more : http://www.uitp.org/publications/index2.cfm?id=11 --------------- Latest Bridging the Gap (BTG) newsletter on land transport and climate change The latest BTG newsletter discusses a proposal for a sectoral mechanism for transport called REST and report from the recent AWG meetings in Bonn and a number of key events including the ADB Transport Forum, the Carbon Expo and CSD18. Read more : http://www.transport2012.org/transport-climate-change-news/2010-06-25,newsletter-32010.htm --------------- GTZ's in-house mobility management practices Practicing what we preach, here is a compilation of selected measures implemented by GTZ to encourage its staff to use trains, bicycles and walking to get to work and on official trips. Read more : http://www.sutp.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2164 ---------------- SUTP web page in Spanish and Chinese revised The idea behind this effort of having and updating the SUTP website in these two languages is to reach out to a wider audience from Spanish and Chinese speaking countries and create a more global platform for dialogue and experience sharing on the subject of sustainable urban transport. Read more : http://www.sutp.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2054 ----------------- ****** Upcoming Events ****** 01.07.2010 Rome, IT: IMPACTS http://www.sutp.org/index.php?option=com_eventlist&Itemid=56&func=details&did=437&lang=en 01.07.2010 Karachi, PK: Conference on Sustainable Transportation & Traffic http://www.sutp.org/index.php?option=com_eventlist&Itemid=56&func=details&did=440&lang=en 04.07.2010 Stuttgart, D.E: Cities for Mobility World Congress 2010 http://www.sutp.org/index.php?option=com_eventlist&Itemid=56&func=details&did=401&lang=en 11.07.2010 Lisbon, PT: 12th World Conference on Transport Research Society http://www.sutp.org/index.php?option=com_eventlist&Itemid=56&func=details&did=386&lang=en 15.07.2010 Lisbon, PT: PANAM 2010 http://www.sutp.org/index.php?option=com_eventlist&Itemid=56&func=details&did=388&lang=en 04.08.2010 Kuching, MY: International Conference on Urban Public Transport: A Platform for Change http://www.sutp.org/index.php?option=com_eventlist&Itemid=56&func=details&did=423&lang=en 23.08.2010 Bangkok,TH : 5th Regional EST http://www.sutp.org/index.php?option=com_eventlist&Itemid=56&func=details&did=447&lang=en 06.09.2010 Moscow, RU: ExpoCityTrans and UITP EURASIA Congress: Public transport as a tool for the economic growth of city http://www.sutp.org/index.php?option=com_eventlist&Itemid=56&func=details&did=450&lang=en 04.10.2010 Mexico City, MX: 5th International Conference on Sustainable Transport (ICST) http://www.sutp.org/index.php?option=com_eventlist&Itemid=56&func=details&did=424&lang=en --------------- A PDF version of the newsletter can be downloaded from http://www.sutp.org/documents/newsletters/NL-MAY-JUN-2010.pdf An online version is also available at http://www.sutp.org/newsletters/NL-May-June-10.html --------------- Contact us: Any further queries regarding this document can be addressed to sutp@sutp.org. All the documents mentioned here are available for download from the SUTP website: http://www.sutp.org For registration please visit http://www.sutp.org/index.php?option=com_comprofiler&task=registers&lang=uk --------------- SUTP Disclaimer The information in this newsletter has been carefully researched and diligently compiled. Nevertheless, GTZ does not accept any liability or give any guarantee for the validity, accuracy and completeness of the information provided. GTZ assumes no legal liabilities for damages, material or immaterial in kind, caused by the use or non-use of provided information or the use of erroneous or incomplete information, with the exception of proven intentional or grossly negligent conduct on the side of GTZ. GTZ reserves the right to modify, append, delete parts or the complete online content without prior notice, or to cancel any publication temporarily or permanently. The third party links are not under the control of GTZ and GTZ is not responsible for the contents of any linked site or any link contained in a linked site. Links to the GTZ SUTP homepage are admissible if the GTZ SUTP website retrieved becomes the sole content of the browser window. From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Fri Jul 2 22:08:38 2010 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric britton) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 15:08:38 +0200 Subject: [sustran] From the New Mobility Agenda: Focus Groups Message-ID: <01b601cb19e7$b23b4680$16b1d380$@britton@ecoplan.org> >From the New Mobility Agenda: Focus Groups The Editor | 29 June 2010 at 14:17 | Categories: New Mobility | URL: http://wp.me/psKUY-JP Group problem-solving and collaborative tool development has been one of the key objectives of the New Mobility Agenda since its creation in 1988. Our thesis was and is that there are a growing number of able people and clever innovative projects around the world that are leading the way, and that it can be useful [...] Read more of this post Add a comment to this post WordPress WordPress.com | Thanks for flying with WordPress! Manage Subscriptions | One-click Unsubscribe | Publish text, photos, music, and videos by email using our Post by Email feature. Trouble clicking? Copy and paste this URL into your browser: http://subscribe.wordpress.com From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Fri Jul 2 22:08:38 2010 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric britton) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 15:08:38 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Everybody knows that Flyovers are Useless Yet . . . . In-Reply-To: <4c2d951e.0541730a.57a8.21af@mx.google.com> References: <4c2d951e.0541730a.57a8.21af@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <01bb01cb19e7$b3077020$19165060$@britton@ecoplan.org> Kanthi and all, This is one more example of the sort of thing that we need to provide a new information and policy framework concerning. The fact is that there is a class of consistently perverse projects which are at the exact opposite end of best practices. And they are so many and so often greeted and supported by policy makers that we really need to put in place a mechanism, some ort of high profile, easy to consult and vigorously commented public gallery of "high recognition" of RBI - Really bad ideas. It's a natural for Word Streets and the New Mobility Agenda, and if any of you has anything thoughts on how to set this up and keep it moving, well you have an eager ear in Paris. Work continues. Best/Eric Eric Britton | WorldStreets.org | NewMobility.org | Skype: newmobility 8, rue Jospeh Bara | Paris 75006 France | +331 7550 3788 From kanthikannan at gmail.com Mon Jul 5 15:37:57 2010 From: kanthikannan at gmail.com (Kanthi Kannan) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 12:07:57 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: Plan ahead for R2W: Adopting a stretch In-Reply-To: <01bb01cb19e7$b3077020$19165060$@britton@ecoplan.org> Message-ID: <4c317dd1.0541730a.5103.ffffd928@mx.google.com> Dear Eric and all Greetings!! The Right to Walk Foundation had its annual general body meeting on July 3, 2010. There were a number of participants and the discussion was indeed useful. The Brainstorming session brought out a number of interesting ideas and methods to proceed ahead. Among these was the adoption of a stretch to make it pedestrian friendly. We need to remember that the stretch that we take up is not very controversial and can be relatively easy to do. Thanks Any Contacts? / Suggestions to go Ahead would be most welcome. Thanks Regards Kanthi Kannan THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT WALK -----Original Message----- From: eric britton [mailto:eric.britton@ecoplan.org] Sent: 02 July 2010 18:39 To: Sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org Cc: 'Kanthi Kannan' Subject: Everybody knows that Flyovers are Useless Yet . . . . Kanthi and all, This is one more example of the sort of thing that we need to provide a new information and policy framework concerning. The fact is that there is a class of consistently perverse projects which are at the exact opposite end of best practices. And they are so many and so often greeted and supported by policy makers that we really need to put in place a mechanism, some ort of high profile, easy to consult and vigorously commented public gallery of "high recognition" of RBI - Really bad ideas. It's a natural for Word Streets and the New Mobility Agenda, and if any of you has anything thoughts on how to set this up and keep it moving, well you have an eager ear in Paris. Work continues. Best/Eric Eric Britton | WorldStreets.org | NewMobility.org | Skype: newmobility 8, rue Jospeh Bara | Paris 75006 France | +331 7550 3788 From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Mon Jul 5 17:57:20 2010 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric britton) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 10:57:20 +0200 Subject: [sustran] The golden rule of sustainable transport is to succeed In-Reply-To: <4c317dd1.0541730a.5103.ffffd928@mx.google.com> References: <01bb01cb19e7$b3077020$19165060$@britton@ecoplan.org> <4c317dd1.0541730a.5103.ffffd928@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <008301cb1c20$15bf9780$413ec680$@britton@ecoplan.org> Subject: Plan ahead for R2W: Adopting a stretch Sounds like a plan. But let's never lose this from sight: The golden rule of sustainable transport is to succeed. Not to feel noble in failure, to feel misunderstood, to think that our high aspirations are too early for our time, but simply to succeed in whatever it is we set out to do. (I know you all know this, but perhaps it is not a waste of a few short lines to recall it.) So if you can succeed with your "stretch" (and I would be eager to learn more about it), then the mere fact that you have achieved success by being, in your own words, "not very controversial and . . . relatively easy to do" will be a lesson for us all. Great good luck Kanthi. Keep us informed. Eric Eric Britton | WorldStreets.org | NewMobility.org | Skype: newmobility 8, rue Jospeh Bara | Paris 75006 France | +331 7550 3788 From phaizan at gmail.com Tue Jul 6 16:46:14 2010 From: phaizan at gmail.com (Faizan Jawed) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 13:16:14 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Announcement: Book on Transport in India Message-ID: Dear Friends, Please find information on a new book on transport in India. I look forward to getting a copy myself. Feel free to this on to others. Faizan -- on behalf of Vidyadhar Date Senior Journalist, formerly of Times of India I am glad to inform you that my book on the inequality and injustice in India?s transport system has just been published. It questions the automobile-dominated pattern of transport planning and urban development. It is titled `*Traffic in the Era of Climate Change - Walking, Cycling, Public Transport Need P riority*.? It calls for a humane, people-friendly, environment-friendly shift in favour of public transport. The 366-page book is quite wide ranging in its scope. It deals with the pampering and glamourisation of the motor car at the expense of other road users, the links between fascism, capitalism and the automobile industry. The book is about the politics, economics and sociology of the motor car, transport in general, the craze for speed, the complete lack of democracy on roads, the loss of public spaces caused by the motor car. The political right has strongly supported automobile domination, neglected public transport and even the Left in India has succumbed to the glamour of the car. Gone are the gentler days when J.R.D. Tata regularly offered a lift to people on the street in his car in Mumbai, Darbari Seth rode on a bicycle in the Tata salt plant at Mithapur and another Tata director S.A. Sabavala called for better facilities for pedestrians. Amartya Sen conducted much of his early field research going around on a bicycle in Santiniketan and other areas. A brash motorist culture prevails now. Numerous interesting facts enliven my book . The book covers a wide range of issues including the culture of the motor car, how it has dictated urban and transport planning and how resistance is slowly growing to this dominance. It also deals a lot with street culture, streetscape, the relationship between architecture, transport, city planning, people and so on. The pedestrian is at the centre of the book. I have built a strong case for a more democratic pattern of transport and traffic based on voluminous information. The book shows how political and economist interests have shaped transport policies, how the car has been built into a status symbol. With my interest in culture I cite numerous examples from a wide range of creative minds ranging from Greek philosophers to Dickens, Shakespeare and Arthur Miller. Godard?s classic film Weekend of 1967 with its depiction of a car crash, deceit and violence shows the relationship between car and capitalism. Aravind Adiga's novel The White Tiger depicts India?s inequality through the eyes of a car chauffeur and it shows how motorists behave. Mahatma Gandhi is a hero of the book and is widely cited because of his strong espousal of walking and a humane approach to transport. Things are changing now even in the most automobile-dominated country, the U.S. with Obama calling for a shift to public transport, the book points out. The Indian authorities have been embracing the worst transport models from the West, ignoring the best models. The book hopes that wiser counsel will prevail. They should at least see the writing on the wall. A recent NASA study conclusively shows that the motor vehicle is the biggest cause of global warming. The U.S. secretary for transport Ray LaHood has called for equal importance to pedestrians and cyclists in planning which is a very big change in the American policy. At least in theory they are accepting this. It is time for our authorities to wake up. At least for the cause of environment if not social justice. The book should appeal to every one from architects and planners to activists, academics, NGOs. Inquiries with publishers - KALPAZ publications, C-30, satyavati nagar. New Delhi 110052. kalpaz@hotmail.com. Phone 9212729499 or Gyan books, Gyan Kunj, 23 Main Ansari Road, Darya Ganj, New Delhi 110 002, books@gyanbooks.com Phone: 98116 92060, 011- 23282060, 23261060. persons to be contacted B.P. Garg, Amit Garg. From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Wed Jul 7 18:30:54 2010 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric britton) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 11:30:54 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Post-Doctoral Fellowships Mobility Cultures in Megacities (BMW Group project) Message-ID: <00b901cb1db7$1b6f70e0$524e52a0$@britton@ecoplan.org> Together with the Institute for Mobility Research (ifmo), a research facility of BMW Group, we are pleased to announce an international call to researchers for up to 6 post-doctoral fellowships within the strategic field of ?Mobility Cultures in Megacities?. Duration of Fellowship: 6 months (extension of 2 months possible) Location: Munich, Germany Academic Partners: Technische Universit?t M?nchen, Goethe-Universit?t Frankfurt Disciplines: Urban transport and mobility; social sciences with a specialisation in mobility and transport research; other fields of study directly related Please download the paper on http://www.sv.bv.tum.de/index.php/de/aktuelles/94-post-doctoral-fellowships-mobility-cultures-in-megacities BACKGROUND AND OBJECTIVES The major objective of the program is to generate a profound understanding of mobility patterns and mobility cultures in megacities in different parts of the world. Fellows with a regional background in these cities are asked to collaborate on a set of research questions in an attractive, interdisciplinary and intercultural environment. Please contact us for further details and background on the current research approach. KEY RESEARCH INTERESTS INCLUDE - Identifying the characteristics, opportunities and constraints of the megacity studied like demographic, social, economic and regulatory conditions - Analyzing long-term mobility decisions like location choice/urbanization, motorization, ? - Studying every-day mobility patterns like activity-chains, mode and destination choices in function of spatial structure and transport supply as well as underlying social motivations - Investigating mobility cultures, lifestyles, perceptions and attitudes in the respective cities and their ?points of entry? in order to learn if and how they might change over time - Assessing stakeholder interaction, local planning and policy discourses and their cultural background in order to develop perspectives for ?good governance? - Identifying challenges and developing strategies for the future of urban mobility CONCEPT The fellowship addresses post-docs in the following disciplines: - urban transport and mobility - social or cultural sciences with a specialisation in mobility or transport research - other fields of study directly related Fellows from different parts of the world will be working on these topics at mostly the same time in Munich, Germany. They are asked to contribute substantially to the interdisciplinary collaboration on mobility from the perspective of one specific megacity. This should include previous research work and where appropriate additional in-depth investigations. Scientific exchange between the fellows is an integral part of the program in order to learn from the respective experiences and results in a transdisciplinary approach. Research results must be documented in a well-founded research paper including documentation of data, methodology and interpretation of results and should contribute to a transfer of knowledge enabling to tackle the global challenges of future urban mobility in megacities. Candidates should have a cultural background in one or several of the cities listed in the map above. They do not necessarily need to be residents of the cities; also scientists with an outstanding knowledge about a special city are welcome. Fellows will be asked to collect and analyze relevant data and material regarding their research before their stay in Munich. The fellowship program will be accompanied by scientific supervision on behalf of Technische Universit?t M?nchen (TUM), Prof. G. Wulfhorst, Dr. S. Kesselring and Goethe-Universit?t Frankfurt/Main, Prof. M. Lanzendorf and Guest Prof. J. Kenworthy. Additionally the program is incorporated into a broad international expert network of scientists and practitioners from several disciplines. Conclusions will be drawn in a closing conference and related international publications. FACTS AND DATES The research grant at TUM is funded by ifmo und comprises a monthly fellowship of 2500 Euro, travel expenses and additional research funds / family support (in function of individual proposals). Fellows will be asked to work in Munich, the relocation services of BMW Group and TUM will assist accommodation issues. Applications are to be submitted to ifmo (by e-mail to the address below) by August 31st 2010. The following documents need to be submitted (in English) with the application: - Letter of motivation - CV and list of publications - Summary of own research work on related topics (2 pages) - Earliest potential date of starting the fellowship stay in Munich ? expected to be in 2011 - 2 letters of reference Principal selection criteria are thematic qualification, interest in intercultural and interdisciplinary scientific exchange as well as relevance of previous work. Candidates will be invited to an international expert workshop taking place from November 17th to 19th 2010 in Munich. The program coordinators will be present at the World Conference on Transport Research (WCTR) 2010 (July 11-15) in Lisbon, Portugal and are available for further inquiries and information. To arrange an appointment please contact gebhard.wulfhorst@tum.de. FURTHER INFORMATION AND ADDRESS FOR SUBMISSION OF APPLICATION Institute for Mobility Research (ifmo) A Research Facility of BMW Group 80788 M?nchen Germany E-mail: irene.feige@ifmo.de Website: http://www.ifmo.de/ From peebeebarter at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 11:55:32 2010 From: peebeebarter at gmail.com (Paul Barter) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 10:55:32 +0800 Subject: [sustran] Fwd: [UTSG] Call for action: Istanbul is being dismissed from the World Heritage List! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Transport projects appear to be threatening historic central Istanbul and its World Heritage Site status, if the email below is accurate. Does anyone know more? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Eda Beyazit Date: 7 July 2010 18:41 Subject: [UTSG] Call for action: Istanbul is being dismissed from the World Heritage List! To: UTSG@jiscmail.ac.uk Hi all, This is an urgent call for acting against the removal of Istanbul from the UNESCO "World Heritage List". UNESCO proposes the suspension of the Halic (Golden Horn) Metro Bridge and the Road Tunnel (not the Marmaray which is a rail tunnel) construction as important conditions for securing the city?s position in the World Heritage List. These projects will cause an increased use of motor vehicles in the Historical Peninsula and are against the suggestions of the Transport Master Plan. The decisions made by local and central authorities are not only against national and international law, but they are also not legitimate as they are not accepted/approved by the public! Please go to http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/istanbul-sos.html to support this cause. More information is available on http://istanbulsos.wordpress.com/ Thanks in advance. Eda ------------------------------- Istanbul, which is listed as one of the 890 World Heritage Sites for its outstanding universal values and has been awarded as the 2010 European Capital of Culture, is now under the threat of being completely removed from the World Heritage List. The World Heritage Committee will come to a decision about Istanbul?s situation at their annual meeting on 25 July-3 August 2010 and unless good progress is achieved on the issues below, which have been on the agenda since 2003 and repeated on June 2010 Draft Decision of World Heritage Committee, UNESCO will first change Istanbul?s situation to the ?World Heritage in Danger? and will dismiss the city from the World Heritage List in 2011. The conditions are: 1. Abandon the Halic (Golden Horn) Metro Bridge project, 2. Stop the implementations of Regeneration Law 5366, 3. Share information about the restoration projects of the Historic City walls, 4. Abandon the tunnel project which would let 75.000 vehicles into the Historic Peninsula everyday, 5. Save the wooden houses, 6. Complete the Site Management Plan for the protection of the Historic Peninsula. From cornie.huizenga at slocatpartnership.org Thu Jul 8 12:09:55 2010 From: cornie.huizenga at slocatpartnership.org (Cornie Huizenga) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 11:09:55 +0800 Subject: [sustran] Re: Fwd: [UTSG] Call for action: Istanbul is being dismissed from the World Heritage List! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Sybel, Can you give some additional information on this? Cornie On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 10:55 AM, Paul Barter wrote: > Transport projects appear to be threatening historic central Istanbul and > its World Heritage Site status, if the email below is accurate. Does anyone > know more? > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Eda Beyazit > Date: 7 July 2010 18:41 > Subject: [UTSG] Call for action: Istanbul is being dismissed from the World > Heritage List! > To: UTSG@jiscmail.ac.uk > > > Hi all, > > This is an urgent call for acting against the removal of Istanbul from the > UNESCO "World Heritage List". > UNESCO proposes the suspension of the Halic (Golden Horn) Metro Bridge and > the Road Tunnel (not the Marmaray which is a rail tunnel) construction > as important > conditions for securing the city?s position in the World Heritage List. > These projects will cause an increased use of motor vehicles in the > Historical Peninsula and are against the suggestions of the Transport > Master > Plan. > The decisions made by local and central authorities are not only against > national and international law, but they are also not legitimate as they > are > not accepted/approved by the public! > Please go to http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/istanbul-sos.html to > support this cause. > More information is available on http://istanbulsos.wordpress.com/ > > Thanks in advance. > > Eda > > ------------------------------- > Istanbul, which is listed as one of the 890 World Heritage Sites for its > outstanding universal values and has been awarded as the 2010 European > Capital of Culture, is now under the threat of being completely removed > from > the World Heritage List. > > The World Heritage Committee will come to a decision about Istanbul?s > situation at their annual meeting on 25 July-3 August 2010 and unless good > progress is achieved on the issues below, which have been on the agenda > since 2003 and repeated on June 2010 Draft Decision of World Heritage > Committee, UNESCO will first change Istanbul?s situation to the ?World > Heritage in Danger? and will dismiss the city from the World Heritage List > in 2011. > > The conditions are: > 1. Abandon the Halic (Golden Horn) Metro Bridge project, > 2. Stop the implementations of Regeneration Law 5366, > 3. Share information about the restoration projects of the Historic City > walls, > 4. Abandon the tunnel project which would let 75.000 vehicles into the > Historic Peninsula everyday, > 5. Save the wooden houses, > 6. Complete the Site Management Plan for the protection of the Historic > Peninsula. > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > -- Cornie Huizenga Joint Convener Partnership on Sustainable, Low Carbon Transport Mobile: +86 13901949332 cornie.huizenga@slocatpartnership.org www.slocat.net From schipper at wri.org Thu Jul 8 12:51:16 2010 From: schipper at wri.org (Lee Schipper) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 23:51:16 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: Fwd: [UTSG] Call for action: Istanbul is beingdismissed from the World Heritage List! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46E2E1971BCEC1459149FBB1A4B4342C08D10053@wricsex029330.WRI.CRM.Local> Thanks Paul for the tip. Having spent weeks working with Sibel and EMBARQ there I think it would be a tragedy to see authorities throw in the towel for more car space! I do know that the Metro plans were shelved for a part of the historic city (west of the Golden Horn) where rumbling of trains would have endangered buildings. Lee Schipper, Ph.D Project Scientist Global Metropolitan Studies 2614 Dwight Way 2nd floor University of California Berkeley CA 94720-1782 USA TEL +1 510 642 6889 FAX +1 510 642 6061 CELL +1 202 262 7476? skype: mrmeter http://metrostudies.berkeley.edu/ Senior Research Engineer Precourt Energy Efficiency Center Stanford University ? -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of Cornie Huizenga Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 8:10 PM To: Paul Barter Cc: Sibel Bulay; sustran-discuss Subject: [sustran] Re: Fwd: [UTSG] Call for action: Istanbul is beingdismissed from the World Heritage List! Hi Sybel, Can you give some additional information on this? Cornie On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 10:55 AM, Paul Barter wrote: > Transport projects appear to be threatening historic central Istanbul > and its World Heritage Site status, if the email below is accurate. > Does anyone know more? > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Eda Beyazit > Date: 7 July 2010 18:41 > Subject: [UTSG] Call for action: Istanbul is being dismissed from the > World Heritage List! > To: UTSG@jiscmail.ac.uk > > > Hi all, > > This is an urgent call for acting against the removal of Istanbul from > the UNESCO "World Heritage List". > UNESCO proposes the suspension of the Halic (Golden Horn) Metro Bridge > and the Road Tunnel (not the Marmaray which is a rail tunnel) > construction as important conditions for securing the city's position > in the World Heritage List. > These projects will cause an increased use of motor vehicles in the > Historical Peninsula and are against the suggestions of the Transport > Master Plan. > The decisions made by local and central authorities are not only > against national and international law, but they are also not > legitimate as they are not accepted/approved by the public! > Please go to http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/istanbul-sos.html to > support this cause. > More information is available on http://istanbulsos.wordpress.com/ > > Thanks in advance. > > Eda > > ------------------------------- > Istanbul, which is listed as one of the 890 World Heritage Sites for > its outstanding universal values and has been awarded as the 2010 > European Capital of Culture, is now under the threat of being > completely removed from the World Heritage List. > > The World Heritage Committee will come to a decision about Istanbul's > situation at their annual meeting on 25 July-3 August 2010 and unless > good progress is achieved on the issues below, which have been on the > agenda since 2003 and repeated on June 2010 Draft Decision of World > Heritage Committee, UNESCO will first change Istanbul's situation to > the "World Heritage in Danger" and will dismiss the city from the > World Heritage List in 2011. > > The conditions are: > 1. Abandon the Halic (Golden Horn) Metro Bridge project, 2. Stop the > implementations of Regeneration Law 5366, 3. Share information about > the restoration projects of the Historic City walls, 4. Abandon the > tunnel project which would let 75.000 vehicles into the Historic > Peninsula everyday, 5. Save the wooden houses, 6. Complete the Site > Management Plan for the protection of the Historic Peninsula. > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the > real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing > countries (the 'Global South'). > -- Cornie Huizenga Joint Convener Partnership on Sustainable, Low Carbon Transport Mobile: +86 13901949332 cornie.huizenga@slocatpartnership.org www.slocat.net -------------------------------------------------------- To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss -------------------------------------------------------- If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From yanivbin at gmail.com Fri Jul 9 14:20:45 2010 From: yanivbin at gmail.com (Vinay Baindur) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 10:50:45 +0530 Subject: [sustran] JNNURM :---- Horse Carts Lose Race Message-ID: Horse Carts Lose Race [image: Horse Carts
Lose Race] Ajeet Bahadur on Jul 5th, 2010 in Blog, Development, Featured, North, Uttar Pradesh | 0 comments http://indiaunheard.videovolunteers.org/ajeet/horse-carts-lose-race/#respond Recent efforts to modernize bus services throughout Allalahabad might force out the city?s traditional horse rickshaws.These actions fall under the central government?s scheme to update public transportation on a national scale. The scheme, known as the Jawaharlal Nehru National Urban Renewal Mission, incentivizes cities, such as Allalahabad, to invest in new modern transportation. While this development is positive for many of Allalahabad?s citizens, it will create fierce competition for horse rickshaws. Cheap, accessible, and reliable bus transport might be enough to drive the horse rickshaws to extinction. Horse rickshaws are known as ekka or tanga in Allahabad. They have been a feature of the region?s roadways and motorways since well-before independence and supported much of public transportation before auto-rickshaws and buses came into use. Today, over 600 Allalahabad families depend on horse rickshaws for their livelihoods. Taken together, these drivers comprise one of the largest unorganized labor sectors in the city. The drivers are predominantly from Muslim and Dalit communities. Most are undereducated and are from marginalized backgrounds. In many cases, horse rickshaw driving it the only trade they know. If the government takes steps to wipe out horse rickshaws than these families will suffer what could be an irreplaceable source of livelihood. As we see in Ajeet?s video, Allalahbad families are calling on the government to stop actions being taken to eradicate horse rickshaws. Further, these families are asking their government to support them in their continued service to the city. More reports from Ajeet Bahadur can be viewed here . From sutp at sutp.org Fri Jul 9 15:14:06 2010 From: sutp at sutp.org (SUTP Team) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 11:44:06 +0530 Subject: [sustran] GTZ Training Course to precede the International Public Transport Conference 2010 in Kuching Message-ID: <4C36BE2E.6010904@sutp.org> The Malaysian Institute of Planners (Sarawak and Sabah Chapter) is organising an "International Public Transport Conference" from the 2-6th August 2010 (2 days workshop and 2.5 days conference), in Kuching, Sarawak, Malaysia. The conference will attract an international gathering of experts, practitioners and campaigners dedicated to promoting sustainable urban public transport. The focus will be on the practical strategies, collaboration of stakeholders and exchange of workable ideas that will assist the conference participants in carrying out the works - ranging from the planning of the urban transport strategies to the implementation of urban transport projects. The GTZ-SUTP project will be conducting a 2 day course on "Sustainable Urban Transport" on the 2-3 August 2010, in Kuching, Sarawak, Malaysia, preceding the Conference. The first day of the conference will focus on the general concepts of sustainable urban transport and public transport improvement and the second day will focus specifically on the issues of non-motorised transport and travel demand management. Mr. Enrique Pe?alosa will give a key note address during this two day workshop. A draft program for the training course can be downloaded from http://www.sutp.org/documents/PRG-TC-KUCHING-DRAFT-240610-EN.pdf. The theme of Kuching?s conference, "A Platform for Change? is centred on bringing the car-dependent communities to review their deep-seated individualistic lifestyle and culture, in considering other modes of transport and an alternative range of strategies to make cities livable; a place for people, rather than a place that is more for the cars. The conference is supported by the Malaysian Institute of Planners; the Sarawak Ministry of Planning and Resource Management; Ministry of Housing and Urban Development; Ministry of Tourism and Heritage, Sarawak Land and Survey Department; as well as Sarawak Convention Bureau. It is to be held at the state-of-art Borneo Convention Centre, situated at a short distance from Kuching City Centre. To register for the conference please visit this link http://www.kuchingptc.com/registration1.php To know more information on the conference please visit http://www.kuchingptc.com/ SUTP Team From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Fri Jul 9 17:42:48 2010 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric britton) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 10:42:48 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Why Free Public Transport is a BAD idea? Your comments invited Message-ID: <005d01cb1f42$b8079b80$2816d280$@britton@ecoplan.org> Heavy traffic on the way to sustainable cities and sustainable lives . . . >From World Streets today: http://worldstreets.wordpress.com/2010/07/07/why-free-public-transport-is-a- bad-idea/ Comments invited here and direct to article as above We invite you to share this article with your sources and lists - in the hope of getting some strong arguments AGAINST this concept. (More to follow.) Why Free Public Transport is a BAD idea? Posted on 7 July 2010 by The Editor There are a number of proponents around the world for the idea that public transport should be free. And if we here at World Streets have some thoughts of our own on the subject, we also think it is always very important to check out both sides of the issues. Just below, you will find four short http://worldstreets.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/ws-bus-queue1.jpg?w=240&h=15 0statements setting out arguments against FPT, and we are interested in hearing from our readers and colleagues around the world both (a) their comments on these criticisms and (b) yet other critical views. In later issues we will look at this from more positive sides, but with the intention of developing a range of views and recommendations on this important topic. Today however, we want to hear from you about the downside. Let's have a look at what we have thus far: The fact that most public transport is not "zero-fare" is evidence that there are arguments against this policy option. Some of these arguments include: * Fairness. Some people's transport needs may not be well-served by the public transport network, and yet they (as tax-payers) are forced to contribute to the cost of the service. At least in ideal economic models, user-pays systems lead to the most efficient allocation of scarce resources. Could the cost of paying for the public transport be better spent elsewhere? * Financial sustainability. Any extension or improvement to the public transport service must be fully funded from the public purse: being free, it cannot recover part of its cost from increased farebox revenue. As patronage on the system increases, so does the cost of provision. This may create resistance to measures to improve public transport or promote public transport use. * Crowding. Fares can be used to moderate demand. If cheaper fares are available off-peak, then people with more flexibility have an incentive to travel at off-peak times. This results in more effective use of limited resources. (Demand management is also used in telecommunications and energy markets.) It could be anticipated that a free service would be particularly crowded at peak times. * Impact on car industry. Greater public transport means that people use fewer cars; as a result, car manufacturers and service providers (e.g. mechanics, gas stations, etc.) can go out of business. Source of the above: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_public_transport # # # Thank you for pitching in on this side of the debate. Of course we are also interested to hear from you with other comments and suggestions on this important transport policy issue. (See http://worldstreets.wordpress.com/2010/06/22/should-public-transport-be-free -stay-tuned/ for an earlier World Streets article on this topic. Also: http://worldstreets.wordpress.com/category/free-public-transport/) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/png Size: 1970 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20100709/f8096882/attachment.png -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 11918 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20100709/f8096882/attachment.jpe From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Fri Jul 9 18:49:25 2010 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric britton) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 11:49:25 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Why Free Public Transport is a BAD idea? - Comments Message-ID: <022901cb1f4c$093317b0$1b994710$@britton@ecoplan.org> A new comment on the post "Why Free Public Transport is a bad idea?" is at http://worldstreets.wordpress.com/2010/07/07/why-free-public-transport-is-a- bad-idea/ Author : Brendan Finn E-mail : etts@indigo.ie Here are my five reasons for not making transit free: 1) Needlessness: People are willing to pay a fair price for a reasonable quality product. It makes no sense to give it away and lose all the income customers were willing to give. The people transit most needs to attract - car-users - pay a lot of money to buy and run their car. They have already shown a willingness to pay for quality, so why focus on free rather than quality? 2) Effectiveness: Free transit means that a lot of public money goes on provision of the basic service. For a city of 1 million people, this is likely to require 300 to 500 million Euro per year just to keep what we have going. That consumes all the money that could have been spent on extra services, better quality, transit improvement schemes such as BHLS/BRT, terminal/stop upgrades, etc. 3) Social balance: Transit would need an extra 200-300 million Euro per year in a typical city just to fill the gap for what people were paying already. This is serious money, and would fund a wide range of educational, health, social support, urban improvement and other things that would improve the daily lives of the citizens. While transit subsidies should remain, it is hard to make a case that the marginal benefits of making it free outweigh the other worthy uses of public funds for the same group of citizens. 4) Dependency: Free transit means complete dependency on the public purse, and the political support for such a policy. Expensive programs get cut sooner or later, it is inevitable as government philosophy changes. The Horn of Plenty dries up. Reintroducing fares and a slew of service cuts to balance the books seriously undermines transit attractiveness and ridership. If making transit free attracts riders, it stands to reason that charging for it again will drive them away. 5) Loss of business focus: Transit is a business. It works well and efficiently because people remember that it is a business. Even if the public purse is a significant customer who pays for those extra services, affordable tariffs, extra quality, etc., it is still run as a business. You work hard for your buck, and you make sure the job gets done right and gets done safely. If you forget that it is a business, the discipline goes and everything gets sloppy. I can also give five reasons to justify public subsidies to transit (which I believe in), but that's not the same thing as making it free. From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Fri Jul 9 18:52:40 2010 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric britton) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 11:52:40 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Why Free Public Transport is a BAD idea? - Comments Message-ID: <025201cb1f4c$7ed78460$7c868d20$@britton@ecoplan.org> New comment on your post "Why Free Public Transport is a bad idea?" Author : Anzir Boodoo (IP: 91.107.131.247 , 91.107.131.247) E-mail : ab@transcience.co.uk Eric, I think you are forgetting a couple of other major reasons... 5. Free public transport creates modal shift from walking (and possibly cycling). For example, the free city centre bus in Leeds (UK) has mostly replaced trips on foot, not trips by taxi from the railway station (as intended) or even short hop trips by bus. Free public transport can thus be a loser on public health grounds (people should be walking and cycling more), and CO2 emissions (which are higher by bus than on foot) 6. Free public transport may encourage people to travel more, since the only cost is their time. This will also increase individuals' level of emissions, not to mention pollution from diesel buses (as they will stop more and we will need more of them) 7. Free public transport may encourage people to use their city centres more than local suburban centres (I don't have any evidence for this!), or large out of town hypermarkets instead of their local suburban centres or local shops. 8. Free public transport is unfair on the "polluter pays principle". All transport produces CO2 emissions, from breathing when you walk or cycle, to the fuel use of motorised transport. Are we allowing people to burn fuel and not pay for the damage this causes? 9. It's well known anecdotally (from observation, if not from studies) that people value things they pay for, and not necessarily things they get for free (see "the tragedy of the commons"). What about respect for drivers, vehicles and infrastructure? Before you ask, I'm all for cheaper public transport, and believe we should be subsudising it to an extent, but I don't think making it free is the answer. I know the mayors and officials of towns like Hasselt in Belgium (where buses are free) would disagree... You can see all comments on this post here: http://worldstreets.wordpress.com/2010/07/07/why-free-public-transport-is-a- bad-idea/#comments From operations at velomondial.net Fri Jul 9 18:57:54 2010 From: operations at velomondial.net (Velo Mondial) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 11:57:54 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Re: Why Free Public Transport is a BAD idea? - Comments In-Reply-To: <022901cb1f4c$093317b0$1b994710$@britton@ecoplan.org> References: <022901cb1f4c$093317b0$1b994710$@britton@ecoplan.org> Message-ID: <92BE2596CC7E47E79E6D0FCCF4E10052@WINGSYNLG30GF5> Don't we just need better public transport, that brings us from where we are to where we want to be? Pascal J.W. van den Noort Executive Director Velo Mondial operations@velomondial.net +31206270675 landline +31627055688 mobile phone -------------------------------------------------- From: "eric britton" Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 11:49 AM To: Subject: [sustran] Why Free Public Transport is a BAD idea? - Comments > A new comment on the post "Why Free Public Transport is a bad idea?" is at > http://worldstreets.wordpress.com/2010/07/07/why-free-public-transport-is-a- > bad-idea/ > > Author : Brendan Finn > E-mail : etts@indigo.ie > > > Here are my five reasons for not making transit free: > > 1) Needlessness: People are willing to pay a fair price for a reasonable > quality product. It makes no sense to give it away and lose all the income > customers were willing to give. The people transit most needs to attract - > car-users - pay a lot of money to buy and run their car. They have already > shown a willingness to pay for quality, so why focus on free rather than > quality? > > 2) Effectiveness: Free transit means that a lot of public money goes on > provision of the basic service. For a city of 1 million people, this is > likely to require 300 to 500 million Euro per year just to keep what we > have going. That consumes all the money that could have been spent on > extra > services, better quality, transit improvement schemes such as BHLS/BRT, > terminal/stop upgrades, etc. > > 3) Social balance: Transit would need an extra 200-300 million Euro per > year > in a typical city just to fill the gap for what people were paying > already. > This is serious money, and would fund a wide range of educational, health, > social support, urban improvement and other things that would improve the > daily lives of the citizens. While transit subsidies should remain, it is > hard to make a case that the marginal benefits of making it free outweigh > the other worthy uses of public funds for the same group of citizens. > > 4) Dependency: Free transit means complete dependency on the public purse, > and the political support for such a policy. Expensive programs get cut > sooner or later, it is inevitable as government philosophy changes. The > Horn > of Plenty dries up. Reintroducing fares and a slew of service cuts to > balance the books seriously undermines transit attractiveness and > ridership. > If making transit free attracts riders, it stands to reason that charging > for it again will drive them away. > > 5) Loss of business focus: Transit is a business. It works well and > efficiently because people remember that it is a business. Even if the > public purse is a significant customer who pays for those extra services, > affordable tariffs, extra quality, etc., it is still run as a business. > You > work hard for your buck, and you make sure the job gets done right and > gets > done safely. If you forget that it is a business, the discipline goes and > everything gets sloppy. > > I can also give five reasons to justify public subsidies to transit (which > I > believe in), but that's not the same thing as making it free. > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > From whook at itdp.org Fri Jul 9 19:32:48 2010 From: whook at itdp.org (whook at itdp.org) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 10:32:48 +0000 Subject: [sustran] Re: Why Free Public Transport is a BAD idea? Your commentsinvited In-Reply-To: <005d01cb1f42$b8079b80$2816d280$@britton@ecoplan.org> References: <005d01cb1f42$b8079b80$2816d280$@britton@ecoplan.org> Message-ID: <1497663838-1278671566-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1286374302-@bda2922.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Pricing should be used more to optimize system performance. What system that is free works well? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "eric britton" Sender: sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 10:42:48 To: ; ; ; Subject: [sustran] Why Free Public Transport is a BAD idea? Your comments invited -------------------------------------------------------- To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss -------------------------------------------------------- If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From Lwright at vivacities.org Fri Jul 9 19:48:17 2010 From: Lwright at vivacities.org (Lloyd Wright) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 18:48:17 +0800 Subject: [sustran] Re: Why Free Public Transport is a BAD idea? - Comments In-Reply-To: <025201cb1f4c$7ed78460$7c868d20$@britton@ecoplan.org> References: <025201cb1f4c$7ed78460$7c868d20$@britton@ecoplan.org> Message-ID: <000001cb1f54$41b9a330$c52ce990$@org> While I am somewhat neutral on this topic, I would note that many of the arguments put forth would apply equally to sidewalks, cycle ways, public parks, public toilets, etc. And yet, I doubt most of us would advocate charging a fee for use of these (although there are cities that do charge for access to parks and toilets). We don't generally advocate charging a fee for using the sidewalk because it is viewed as a public good. And hopefully we all support walking as public policy (as well as cycling and public transport). I am struck by the fact that in many cities with free public transport, the Armageddon suggested in some of the comments does not happen. The systems are well maintained and operated. There are still pedestrians and cyclists. And they do not become too crowded because they are sized to meet the demand, which should be a design principle regardless of the fare level. The free transport business model can also be sustainable. For example, Orlando (FL) has a very nice free inner city BRT service paid for by fees on private vehicles (which has a nice bit of justice to it). Miami has a truly wonderful free People Mover. Obviously, the examples from Florida and Belgium are not representative of what would happen in developing Asia. But I am not sure that free public transport is out of the question for these contexts. And hopefully, we can continue to use sidewalks, cycle ways, parks, and toilets before the economists demand a strict application of user/polluter pays. Best, Lloyd -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+lwright=vivacities.org@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+lwright=vivacities.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of eric britton Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 17:53 To: Sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org Subject: [sustran] Why Free Public Transport is a BAD idea? - Comments New comment on your post "Why Free Public Transport is a bad idea?" Author : Anzir Boodoo (IP: 91.107.131.247 , 91.107.131.247) E-mail : ab@transcience.co.uk Eric, I think you are forgetting a couple of other major reasons... 5. Free public transport creates modal shift from walking (and possibly cycling). For example, the free city centre bus in Leeds (UK) has mostly replaced trips on foot, not trips by taxi from the railway station (as intended) or even short hop trips by bus. Free public transport can thus be a loser on public health grounds (people should be walking and cycling more), and CO2 emissions (which are higher by bus than on foot) 6. Free public transport may encourage people to travel more, since the only cost is their time. This will also increase individuals' level of emissions, not to mention pollution from diesel buses (as they will stop more and we will need more of them) 7. Free public transport may encourage people to use their city centres more than local suburban centres (I don't have any evidence for this!), or large out of town hypermarkets instead of their local suburban centres or local shops. 8. Free public transport is unfair on the "polluter pays principle". All transport produces CO2 emissions, from breathing when you walk or cycle, to the fuel use of motorised transport. Are we allowing people to burn fuel and not pay for the damage this causes? 9. It's well known anecdotally (from observation, if not from studies) that people value things they pay for, and not necessarily things they get for free (see "the tragedy of the commons"). What about respect for drivers, vehicles and infrastructure? Before you ask, I'm all for cheaper public transport, and believe we should be subsudising it to an extent, but I don't think making it free is the answer. I know the mayors and officials of towns like Hasselt in Belgium (where buses are free) would disagree... You can see all comments on this post here: http://worldstreets.wordpress.com/2010/07/07/why-free-public-transport-is-a- bad-idea/#comments -------------------------------------------------------- To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss -------------------------------------------------------- If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From schipper at wri.org Fri Jul 9 21:08:20 2010 From: schipper at wri.org (Lee Schipper) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 08:08:20 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: Why Free Public Transport is a BAD idea? - Comments In-Reply-To: <000001cb1f54$41b9a330$c52ce990$@org> References: <025201cb1f4c$7ed78460$7c868d20$@britton@ecoplan.org> <000001cb1f54$41b9a330$c52ce990$@org> Message-ID: <46E2E1971BCEC1459149FBB1A4B4342C08D5A94E@wricsex029330.WRI.CRM.Local> I disagree with Lloyd on the analogy. Public transport systems have very high running costs/variable costs. While it is not free to maintain cycleways or sidewalks, costs are small. And many of us DO advocate charging for using roads! Lee Schipper, Ph.D Project Scientist Global Metropolitan Studies 2614 Dwight Way 2nd floor University of California Berkeley CA 94720-1782 USA TEL +1 510 642 6889 FAX +1 510 642 6061 CELL +1 202 262 7476? skype: mrmeter http://metrostudies.berkeley.edu/ Senior Research Engineer Precourt Energy Efficiency Center Stanford University ? -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of Lloyd Wright Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 3:48 AM To: 'eric britton'; Sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org Subject: [sustran] Re: Why Free Public Transport is a BAD idea? - Comments While I am somewhat neutral on this topic, I would note that many of the arguments put forth would apply equally to sidewalks, cycle ways, public parks, public toilets, etc. And yet, I doubt most of us would advocate charging a fee for use of these (although there are cities that do charge for access to parks and toilets). We don't generally advocate charging a fee for using the sidewalk because it is viewed as a public good. And hopefully we all support walking as public policy (as well as cycling and public transport). I am struck by the fact that in many cities with free public transport, the Armageddon suggested in some of the comments does not happen. The systems are well maintained and operated. There are still pedestrians and cyclists. And they do not become too crowded because they are sized to meet the demand, which should be a design principle regardless of the fare level. The free transport business model can also be sustainable. For example, Orlando (FL) has a very nice free inner city BRT service paid for by fees on private vehicles (which has a nice bit of justice to it). Miami has a truly wonderful free People Mover. Obviously, the examples from Florida and Belgium are not representative of what would happen in developing Asia. But I am not sure that free public transport is out of the question for these contexts. And hopefully, we can continue to use sidewalks, cycle ways, parks, and toilets before the economists demand a strict application of user/polluter pays. Best, Lloyd -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+lwright=vivacities.org@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+lwright=vivacities.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of eric britton Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 17:53 To: Sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org Subject: [sustran] Why Free Public Transport is a BAD idea? - Comments New comment on your post "Why Free Public Transport is a bad idea?" Author : Anzir Boodoo (IP: 91.107.131.247 , 91.107.131.247) E-mail : ab@transcience.co.uk Eric, I think you are forgetting a couple of other major reasons... 5. Free public transport creates modal shift from walking (and possibly cycling). For example, the free city centre bus in Leeds (UK) has mostly replaced trips on foot, not trips by taxi from the railway station (as intended) or even short hop trips by bus. Free public transport can thus be a loser on public health grounds (people should be walking and cycling more), and CO2 emissions (which are higher by bus than on foot) 6. Free public transport may encourage people to travel more, since the only cost is their time. This will also increase individuals' level of emissions, not to mention pollution from diesel buses (as they will stop more and we will need more of them) 7. Free public transport may encourage people to use their city centres more than local suburban centres (I don't have any evidence for this!), or large out of town hypermarkets instead of their local suburban centres or local shops. 8. Free public transport is unfair on the "polluter pays principle". All transport produces CO2 emissions, from breathing when you walk or cycle, to the fuel use of motorised transport. Are we allowing people to burn fuel and not pay for the damage this causes? 9. It's well known anecdotally (from observation, if not from studies) that people value things they pay for, and not necessarily things they get for free (see "the tragedy of the commons"). What about respect for drivers, vehicles and infrastructure? Before you ask, I'm all for cheaper public transport, and believe we should be subsudising it to an extent, but I don't think making it free is the answer. I know the mayors and officials of towns like Hasselt in Belgium (where buses are free) would disagree... You can see all comments on this post here: http://worldstreets.wordpress.com/2010/07/07/why-free-public-transport-is-a- bad-idea/#comments -------------------------------------------------------- To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss -------------------------------------------------------- If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). -------------------------------------------------------- To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss -------------------------------------------------------- If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From carlosfpardo at gmail.com Fri Jul 9 21:27:58 2010 From: carlosfpardo at gmail.com (Carlosfelipe Pardo) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 07:27:58 -0500 Subject: [sustran] Re: Why Free Public Transport is a BAD idea? - Comments In-Reply-To: <46E2E1971BCEC1459149FBB1A4B4342C08D5A94E@wricsex029330.WRI.CRM.Local> References: <025201cb1f4c$7ed78460$7c868d20$@britton@ecoplan.org> <000001cb1f54$41b9a330$c52ce990$@org> <46E2E1971BCEC1459149FBB1A4B4342C08D5A94E@wricsex029330.WRI.CRM.Local> Message-ID: <4C3715CE.1010401@gmail.com> Maybe the problem is the either/or of free or full costs, and not thinking of options between the two and progress towards the second. I propose the following: - Charge road users as close as possible to the real costs of their car/motorcycle use and earmark it for public transport - Do your best to reduce as much as possible the price of public transport operation (or increase frequencies etc) by use of the funds collected via polluter pays in cars etc. Maybe at some point it will be possible to have zero cost for public transport use? Best regards, Carlosfelipe Pardo On 09/07/2010 07:08 a.m., Lee Schipper wrote: > I disagree with Lloyd on the analogy. Public transport systems have very high running costs/variable costs. While it is not free to maintain cycleways or sidewalks, costs are small. And many of us DO advocate charging for using roads! > > Lee Schipper, Ph.D > Project Scientist > Global Metropolitan Studies > > 2614 Dwight Way 2nd floor > University of California Berkeley > CA 94720-1782 USA > > TEL +1 510 642 6889 > FAX +1 510 642 6061 > CELL +1 202 262 7476 > skype: mrmeter > http://metrostudies.berkeley.edu/ > > Senior Research Engineer > Precourt Energy Efficiency Center > Stanford University > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of Lloyd Wright > Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 3:48 AM > To: 'eric britton'; Sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org > Subject: [sustran] Re: Why Free Public Transport is a BAD idea? - Comments > > While I am somewhat neutral on this topic, I would note that many of the arguments put forth would apply equally to sidewalks, cycle ways, public parks, public toilets, etc. > > And yet, I doubt most of us would advocate charging a fee for use of these (although there are cities that do charge for access to parks and toilets). > > We don't generally advocate charging a fee for using the sidewalk because it is viewed as a public good. And hopefully we all support walking as public policy (as well as cycling and public transport). > > I am struck by the fact that in many cities with free public transport, the Armageddon suggested in some of the comments does not happen. The systems are well maintained and operated. There are still pedestrians and cyclists. > And they do not become too crowded because they are sized to meet the demand, which should be a design principle regardless of the fare level. > > The free transport business model can also be sustainable. For example, Orlando (FL) has a very nice free inner city BRT service paid for by fees on private vehicles (which has a nice bit of justice to it). Miami has a truly wonderful free People Mover. > > Obviously, the examples from Florida and Belgium are not representative of what would happen in developing Asia. But I am not sure that free public transport is out of the question for these contexts. > > And hopefully, we can continue to use sidewalks, cycle ways, parks, and toilets before the economists demand a strict application of user/polluter pays. > > Best, > > Lloyd > > -----Original Message----- > From: sustran-discuss-bounces+lwright=vivacities.org@list.jca.apc.org > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+lwright=vivacities.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of eric britton > Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 17:53 > To: Sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org > Subject: [sustran] Why Free Public Transport is a BAD idea? - Comments > > New comment on your post "Why Free Public Transport is a bad idea?" > Author : Anzir Boodoo (IP: 91.107.131.247 , 91.107.131.247) E-mail : ab@transcience.co.uk > > > Eric, > > I think you are forgetting a couple of other major reasons... > > 5. Free public transport creates modal shift from walking (and possibly cycling). For example, the free city centre bus in Leeds (UK) has mostly replaced trips on foot, not trips by taxi from the railway station (as > intended) or even short hop trips by bus. Free public transport can thus be a loser on public health grounds (people should be walking and cycling more), and CO2 emissions (which are higher by bus than on foot) > > 6. Free public transport may encourage people to travel more, since the only cost is their time. This will also increase individuals' level of emissions, not to mention pollution from diesel buses (as they will stop more and we will need more of them) > > 7. Free public transport may encourage people to use their city centres more than local suburban centres (I don't have any evidence for this!), or large out of town hypermarkets instead of their local suburban centres or local shops. > > 8. Free public transport is unfair on the "polluter pays principle". All transport produces CO2 emissions, from breathing when you walk or cycle, to the fuel use of motorised transport. Are we allowing people to burn fuel and not pay for the damage this causes? > > 9. It's well known anecdotally (from observation, if not from studies) that people value things they pay for, and not necessarily things they get for free (see "the tragedy of the commons"). What about respect for drivers, vehicles and infrastructure? > > Before you ask, I'm all for cheaper public transport, and believe we should be subsudising it to an extent, but I don't think making it free is the answer. I know the mayors and officials of towns like Hasselt in Belgium (where buses are free) would disagree... > > You can see all comments on this post here: > http://worldstreets.wordpress.com/2010/07/07/why-free-public-transport-is-a- > bad-idea/#comments > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). > > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). > > From edelman at greenidea.eu Fri Jul 9 22:07:52 2010 From: edelman at greenidea.eu (Todd Edelman) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 15:07:52 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Re: Why Free Public Transport is a BAD idea? - Comments In-Reply-To: <4C3715CE.1010401@gmail.com> References: <025201cb1f4c$7ed78460$7c868d20$@britton@ecoplan.org> <000001cb1f54$41b9a330$c52ce990$@org> <46E2E1971BCEC1459149FBB1A4B4342C08D5A94E@wricsex029330.WRI.CRM.Local> <4C3715CE.1010401@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4C371F28.6040904@greenidea.eu> Hi, Implementing fare-free use of collective or individual public transport is quite context-specific. There are many current metro systems in the U.S, Europe etc. which could not handle the extra burden without massive investment and/or shift to home working, bicycles and so on.... but then again many public bicycle systems are nearly fare-free as a way to promote cycling, so why not the same for public transport systems which are new or have the capacity? The 30min fare-free model for public bikes can be inspiration for further fare-free travel using collective means, but of course only in dense urban areas. (I am not advocating for fare income to made up by advertising deals). Bottom line, public transport provision is a major part of any developed or developing economy, and it seems unfair or silly to look for some/too much fare income there whilst huge amounts of money are spent on areas outside the mobility or urban livability sectors, such as on military arms. Can we please make sure that the question to ask here is not "Buses or bikepaths?" but "Buses or bombs?" - T On 09/07/10 14:27, Carlosfelipe Pardo wrote: > Maybe the problem is the either/or of free or full costs, and not > thinking of options between the two and progress towards the second. I > propose the following: > > - Charge road users as close as possible to the real costs of their > car/motorcycle use and earmark it for public transport > - Do your best to reduce as much as possible the price of public > transport operation (or increase frequencies etc) by use of the funds > collected via polluter pays in cars etc. > > Maybe at some point it will be possible to have zero cost for public > transport use? > > Best regards, > > Carlosfelipe Pardo > > On 09/07/2010 07:08 a.m., Lee Schipper wrote: > >> I disagree with Lloyd on the analogy. Public transport systems have very high running costs/variable costs. While it is not free to maintain cycleways or sidewalks, costs are small. And many of us DO advocate charging for using roads! >> >> Lee Schipper, Ph.D >> Project Scientist >> Global Metropolitan Studies >> >> 2614 Dwight Way 2nd floor >> University of California Berkeley >> CA 94720-1782 USA >> >> TEL +1 510 642 6889 >> FAX +1 510 642 6061 >> CELL +1 202 262 7476 >> skype: mrmeter >> http://metrostudies.berkeley.edu/ >> >> Senior Research Engineer >> Precourt Energy Efficiency Center >> Stanford University >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of Lloyd Wright >> Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 3:48 AM >> To: 'eric britton'; Sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org >> Subject: [sustran] Re: Why Free Public Transport is a BAD idea? - Comments >> >> While I am somewhat neutral on this topic, I would note that many of the arguments put forth would apply equally to sidewalks, cycle ways, public parks, public toilets, etc. >> >> And yet, I doubt most of us would advocate charging a fee for use of these (although there are cities that do charge for access to parks and toilets). >> >> We don't generally advocate charging a fee for using the sidewalk because it is viewed as a public good. And hopefully we all support walking as public policy (as well as cycling and public transport). >> >> I am struck by the fact that in many cities with free public transport, the Armageddon suggested in some of the comments does not happen. The systems are well maintained and operated. There are still pedestrians and cyclists. >> And they do not become too crowded because they are sized to meet the demand, which should be a design principle regardless of the fare level. >> >> The free transport business model can also be sustainable. For example, Orlando (FL) has a very nice free inner city BRT service paid for by fees on private vehicles (which has a nice bit of justice to it). Miami has a truly wonderful free People Mover. >> >> Obviously, the examples from Florida and Belgium are not representative of what would happen in developing Asia. But I am not sure that free public transport is out of the question for these contexts. >> >> And hopefully, we can continue to use sidewalks, cycle ways, parks, and toilets before the economists demand a strict application of user/polluter pays. >> >> Best, >> >> Lloyd >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+lwright=vivacities.org@list.jca.apc.org >> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+lwright=vivacities.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of eric britton >> Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 17:53 >> To: Sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org >> Subject: [sustran] Why Free Public Transport is a BAD idea? - Comments >> >> New comment on your post "Why Free Public Transport is a bad idea?" >> Author : Anzir Boodoo (IP: 91.107.131.247 , 91.107.131.247) E-mail : ab@transcience.co.uk >> >> >> Eric, >> >> I think you are forgetting a couple of other major reasons... >> >> 5. Free public transport creates modal shift from walking (and possibly cycling). For example, the free city centre bus in Leeds (UK) has mostly replaced trips on foot, not trips by taxi from the railway station (as >> intended) or even short hop trips by bus. Free public transport can thus be a loser on public health grounds (people should be walking and cycling more), and CO2 emissions (which are higher by bus than on foot) >> >> 6. Free public transport may encourage people to travel more, since the only cost is their time. This will also increase individuals' level of emissions, not to mention pollution from diesel buses (as they will stop more and we will need more of them) >> >> 7. Free public transport may encourage people to use their city centres more than local suburban centres (I don't have any evidence for this!), or large out of town hypermarkets instead of their local suburban centres or local shops. >> >> 8. Free public transport is unfair on the "polluter pays principle". All transport produces CO2 emissions, from breathing when you walk or cycle, to the fuel use of motorised transport. Are we allowing people to burn fuel and not pay for the damage this causes? >> >> 9. It's well known anecdotally (from observation, if not from studies) that people value things they pay for, and not necessarily things they get for free (see "the tragedy of the commons"). What about respect for drivers, vehicles and infrastructure? >> >> Before you ask, I'm all for cheaper public transport, and believe we should be subsudising it to an extent, but I don't think making it free is the answer. I know the mayors and officials of towns like Hasselt in Belgium (where buses are free) would disagree... >> >> You can see all comments on this post here: >> http://worldstreets.wordpress.com/2010/07/07/why-free-public-transport-is-a- >> bad-idea/#comments >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >> >> ================================================================ >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >> >> ================================================================ >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >> >> ================================================================ >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). >> >> >> > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). > > -- Todd Edelman Green Idea Factory, a member of the OPENbike team Mobile: ++49(0)162 814 4081 Immobile: ++49(0)30 7554 0001 edelman@greenidea.eu www.greenidea.eu todd@openbike.se www.openbike.se Skype: toddedelman Urbanstr. 45 10967 Berlin Germany *** OPENbike - Share the Perfect Fit! From lutman at globalnet.co.uk Fri Jul 9 23:17:24 2010 From: lutman at globalnet.co.uk (Peter Lutman) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 15:17:24 +0100 Subject: [sustran] Why free public transport is a bad idea. Message-ID: <5D64ECA74B504A1DAEFC7B87457E9C9C@PeterPC> Dear Sustran-Discuss, Public Transport operators do (or certainly should) constantly monitor demand, which is easiest done from the farebox, so that adjustments may be made to service frequency, hours of operation and introduction of new routes where transfer demand becomes significant. Free travel removes these data sources and would require replacement by costly surveys of Origin - Destination, journey purpose, required arrival, departure or dwell times and the like. In places where it is cold, people will ride public transport just to keep warm (I remember this happening in Norwich, England in the 1970s where the 5p City Circle which took an hour to go round attracted significant numbers of the elderly (and vagrants) in winter to warm up for an hour. In places where it is hot, and transit has air-conditioning, the same sort of thing will happen. Far from attracting prople out of cars and damaging the car and fuel supply industries, it seems to me that it would have the reverse effects, as the overcrowding and less salbrious members of society would soon discourage those with an alternative available from using public transport at all. I recall that 40% of the Tyne & Wear Metro's passengers actually had a car available for the journey they were making on the system - most of these would revert to the car rather than be squashed in with the unwashed! In the UK people over 60 (soon to be raised to 65) currently have free travel on all bus services in their specific Country; England, Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland. Has any research been carried out into their change of behaviour? If so this might indicate what might happen with the rest of the population. In the Transport for London area everyone under 18 has free travel on buses - again what change has occurred since this was introduced? Certainly with the efforts the coalition Government is making to reduce public expenditure and to balance the Nation's books, there is absolutely no way in which the loss of revenue could be funded, let alone the huge potential cost increases. There are no longer savings to be made (buses don't have conductors any more so they can't be got rid of) and Government already supports public transport with subsidies to the tune of about ?10 billion annually if my memory serves me. Fare free public transport is dead in the water so far as I can see. Peter Lutman FCILT From krc12353 at gmail.com Sat Jul 10 00:49:56 2010 From: krc12353 at gmail.com (Karthik Rao Cavale) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 11:49:56 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: Why Free Public Transport is a BAD idea? - Comments In-Reply-To: <4C371F28.6040904@greenidea.eu> References: <000001cb1f54$41b9a330$c52ce990$@org> <46E2E1971BCEC1459149FBB1A4B4342C08D5A94E@wricsex029330.WRI.CRM.Local> <4C3715CE.1010401@gmail.com> <4C371F28.6040904@greenidea.eu> Message-ID: Hi, There are times when implementing fare-collection would make the system costlier than not implementing fare-collection. Collecting fares needs investment in fare-collection machines, but it also makes entry and exit time-consuming (as only the front door of the bus can be used). In places where the buses make short trips with a lot of people getting in and out at each stop, sometimes fare-collection is simply not worth it. A good example is my Rutgers university bus system, which does not collect fares (of course the money comes from the fee we pay). For the 5-10 mile trips it makes, fare collection would significantly impact the time taken to complete one trip. But I also remember my IIT madras bus system, which had a 1 Rupee fare. To collect the fare, they had to keep a conductor - who could have otherwise been more gainfully employed as a driver. Service frequencies were terribly low, so they could have used more drivers to up the frequency. And it is unlikely that the fares collected even covered the costs of employing a conductor. As for an increase in demand, that can be managed by restricting supply. The buses at Rutgers rarely run with a headway of more than 10 minutes, so students are unlikely to use the bus short walkable trips of a mile or less. I cannot speak with any certainty about other situations where this would work, but for short trips with a lot of ridership, I think fare-free systems do make sense, even from a strictly economic viewpoint. karthik On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 9:07 AM, Todd Edelman wrote: > Hi, > > Implementing fare-free use of collective or individual public transport > is quite context-specific. There are many current metro systems in the > U.S, Europe etc. which could not handle the extra burden without massive > investment and/or shift to home working, bicycles and so on.... but then > again many public bicycle systems are nearly fare-free as a way to > promote cycling, so why not the same for public transport systems which > are new or have the capacity? The 30min fare-free model for public bikes > can be inspiration for further fare-free travel using collective means, > but of course only in dense urban areas. (I am not advocating for fare > income to made up by advertising deals). > > Bottom line, public transport provision is a major part of any developed > or developing economy, and it seems unfair or silly to look for some/too > much fare income there whilst huge amounts of money are spent on areas > outside the mobility or urban livability sectors, such as on military > arms. Can we please make sure that the question to ask here is not > "Buses or bikepaths?" but "Buses or bombs?" > > - T > > On 09/07/10 14:27, Carlosfelipe Pardo wrote: > > Maybe the problem is the either/or of free or full costs, and not > > thinking of options between the two and progress towards the second. I > > propose the following: > > > > - Charge road users as close as possible to the real costs of their > > car/motorcycle use and earmark it for public transport > > - Do your best to reduce as much as possible the price of public > > transport operation (or increase frequencies etc) by use of the funds > > collected via polluter pays in cars etc. > > > > Maybe at some point it will be possible to have zero cost for public > > transport use? > > > > Best regards, > > > > Carlosfelipe Pardo > > > > On 09/07/2010 07:08 a.m., Lee Schipper wrote: > > > >> I disagree with Lloyd on the analogy. Public transport systems have very > high running costs/variable costs. While it is not free to maintain > cycleways or sidewalks, costs are small. And many of us DO advocate charging > for using roads! > >> > >> Lee Schipper, Ph.D > >> Project Scientist > >> Global Metropolitan Studies > >> > >> 2614 Dwight Way 2nd floor > >> University of California Berkeley > >> CA 94720-1782 USA > >> > >> TEL +1 510 642 6889 > >> FAX +1 510 642 6061 > >> CELL +1 202 262 7476 > >> skype: mrmeter > >> http://metrostudies.berkeley.edu/ > >> > >> Senior Research Engineer > >> Precourt Energy Efficiency Center > >> Stanford University > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org@list.jca.apc.org[mailto: > sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper = > wri.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of Lloyd Wright > >> Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 3:48 AM > >> To: 'eric britton'; Sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org > >> Subject: [sustran] Re: Why Free Public Transport is a BAD idea? - > Comments > >> > >> While I am somewhat neutral on this topic, I would note that many of the > arguments put forth would apply equally to sidewalks, cycle ways, public > parks, public toilets, etc. > >> > >> And yet, I doubt most of us would advocate charging a fee for use of > these (although there are cities that do charge for access to parks and > toilets). > >> > >> We don't generally advocate charging a fee for using the sidewalk > because it is viewed as a public good. And hopefully we all support walking > as public policy (as well as cycling and public transport). > >> > >> I am struck by the fact that in many cities with free public transport, > the Armageddon suggested in some of the comments does not happen. The > systems are well maintained and operated. There are still pedestrians and > cyclists. > >> And they do not become too crowded because they are sized to meet the > demand, which should be a design principle regardless of the fare level. > >> > >> The free transport business model can also be sustainable. For example, > Orlando (FL) has a very nice free inner city BRT service paid for by fees on > private vehicles (which has a nice bit of justice to it). Miami has a truly > wonderful free People Mover. > >> > >> Obviously, the examples from Florida and Belgium are not representative > of what would happen in developing Asia. But I am not sure that free public > transport is out of the question for these contexts. > >> > >> And hopefully, we can continue to use sidewalks, cycle ways, parks, and > toilets before the economists demand a strict application of user/polluter > pays. > >> > >> Best, > >> > >> Lloyd > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+lwright=vivacities.org@list.jca.apc.org > >> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+lwright > =vivacities.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of eric britton > >> Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 17:53 > >> To: Sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org > >> Subject: [sustran] Why Free Public Transport is a BAD idea? - Comments > >> > >> New comment on your post "Why Free Public Transport is a bad idea?" > >> Author : Anzir Boodoo (IP: 91.107.131.247 , 91.107.131.247) E-mail : > ab@transcience.co.uk > >> > >> > >> Eric, > >> > >> I think you are forgetting a couple of other major reasons... > >> > >> 5. Free public transport creates modal shift from walking (and possibly > cycling). For example, the free city centre bus in Leeds (UK) has mostly > replaced trips on foot, not trips by taxi from the railway station (as > >> intended) or even short hop trips by bus. Free public transport can thus > be a loser on public health grounds (people should be walking and cycling > more), and CO2 emissions (which are higher by bus than on foot) > >> > >> 6. Free public transport may encourage people to travel more, since the > only cost is their time. This will also increase individuals' level of > emissions, not to mention pollution from diesel buses (as they will stop > more and we will need more of them) > >> > >> 7. Free public transport may encourage people to use their city centres > more than local suburban centres (I don't have any evidence for this!), or > large out of town hypermarkets instead of their local suburban centres or > local shops. > >> > >> 8. Free public transport is unfair on the "polluter pays principle". All > transport produces CO2 emissions, from breathing when you walk or cycle, to > the fuel use of motorised transport. Are we allowing people to burn fuel and > not pay for the damage this causes? > >> > >> 9. It's well known anecdotally (from observation, if not from studies) > that people value things they pay for, and not necessarily things they get > for free (see "the tragedy of the commons"). What about respect for drivers, > vehicles and infrastructure? > >> > >> Before you ask, I'm all for cheaper public transport, and believe we > should be subsudising it to an extent, but I don't think making it free is > the answer. I know the mayors and officials of towns like Hasselt in Belgium > (where buses are free) would disagree... > >> > >> You can see all comments on this post here: > >> > http://worldstreets.wordpress.com/2010/07/07/why-free-public-transport-is-a- > >> bad-idea/#comments > >> > >> > >> -------------------------------------------------------- > >> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > >> > >> -------------------------------------------------------- > >> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > >> > >> ================================================================ > >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > >> > >> -------------------------------------------------------- > >> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > >> > >> -------------------------------------------------------- > >> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > >> > >> ================================================================ > >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > >> -------------------------------------------------------- > >> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > >> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > >> > >> -------------------------------------------------------- > >> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > >> > >> ================================================================ > >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > >> > >> > >> > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > > > ================================================================ > > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > > > > > > > -- > > Todd Edelman > Green Idea Factory, > a member of the OPENbike team > > Mobile: ++49(0)162 814 4081 > Immobile: ++49(0)30 7554 0001 > > edelman@greenidea.eu > www.greenidea.eu > todd@openbike.se > www.openbike.se > > Skype: toddedelman > > Urbanstr. 45 > 10967 Berlin > Germany > > *** > > OPENbike - Share the Perfect Fit! > > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > From roger.gorham at gmail.com Sat Jul 10 01:20:25 2010 From: roger.gorham at gmail.com (Roger Gorham) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 12:20:25 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: Why Free Public Transport is a BAD idea? - Comments In-Reply-To: <4C371F28.6040904@greenidea.eu> References: <000001cb1f54$41b9a330$c52ce990$@org> <46E2E1971BCEC1459149FBB1A4B4342C08D5A94E@wricsex029330.WRI.CRM.Local> <4C3715CE.1010401@gmail.com> <4C371F28.6040904@greenidea.eu> Message-ID: I agree with the sentiment expressed here by some that it depends heavily on the local context and the objective for which "free" public transport (that is, someone other than the user pays all the costs) is being proposed. But for most of the usual-suspect-objectives that people have already cited -- support a public good, bolster public transport's mode share, or reduce private car use -- removing from the user all burden of cost-sharing will generally prove to be ineffective. In time-sensitive environments (e.g. developed-country cities), free public transport will generally slow the system down (artificial "congestion" from higher frequency of stops, more people boarding at stops) which would further incentivize private vehicle use. (Lloyd mentions a couple of exceptions, but these seem to be highly niched circumstances, with minuscule mode share, I would imagine.) In developing country cities, the very immediate logistical problem is that "public" transport is provided by thousands of small operators -- there is no way to contemplate creating a "free' system under these circumstances without generating a myriad of other problems that would be too horrible to think about. So the larger question is how to transform these systems into more manageable, sustainable, and organized public tranpsort delivery systems, which is what we are all grappling with. In short, "user-doensn't-pay" systems may be ok in a limited number of circumstances to meet specific objectives, but it should not be an abstract goal we should be striving for. On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 9:07 AM, Todd Edelman wrote: > Hi, > > Implementing fare-free use of collective or individual public transport > is quite context-specific. There are many current metro systems in the > U.S, Europe etc. which could not handle the extra burden without massive > investment and/or shift to home working, bicycles and so on.... but then > again many public bicycle systems are nearly fare-free as a way to > promote cycling, so why not the same for public transport systems which > are new or have the capacity? The 30min fare-free model for public bikes > can be inspiration for further fare-free travel using collective means, > but of course only in dense urban areas. (I am not advocating for fare > income to made up by advertising deals). > > Bottom line, public transport provision is a major part of any developed > or developing economy, and it seems unfair or silly to look for some/too > much fare income there whilst huge amounts of money are spent on areas > outside the mobility or urban livability sectors, such as on military > arms. Can we please make sure that the question to ask here is not > "Buses or bikepaths?" but "Buses or bombs?" > > - T > > On 09/07/10 14:27, Carlosfelipe Pardo wrote: > > Maybe the problem is the either/or of free or full costs, and not > > thinking of options between the two and progress towards the second. I > > propose the following: > > > > - Charge road users as close as possible to the real costs of their > > car/motorcycle use and earmark it for public transport > > - Do your best to reduce as much as possible the price of public > > transport operation (or increase frequencies etc) by use of the funds > > collected via polluter pays in cars etc. > > > > Maybe at some point it will be possible to have zero cost for public > > transport use? > > > > Best regards, > > > > Carlosfelipe Pardo > > > > On 09/07/2010 07:08 a.m., Lee Schipper wrote: > > > >> I disagree with Lloyd on the analogy. Public transport systems have very > high running costs/variable costs. While it is not free to maintain > cycleways or sidewalks, costs are small. And many of us DO advocate charging > for using roads! > >> > >> Lee Schipper, Ph.D > >> Project Scientist > >> Global Metropolitan Studies > >> > >> 2614 Dwight Way 2nd floor > >> University of California Berkeley > >> CA 94720-1782 USA > >> > >> TEL +1 510 642 6889 > >> FAX +1 510 642 6061 > >> CELL +1 202 262 7476 > >> skype: mrmeter > >> http://metrostudies.berkeley.edu/ > >> > >> Senior Research Engineer > >> Precourt Energy Efficiency Center > >> Stanford University > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org@list.jca.apc.org[mailto: > sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper = > wri.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of Lloyd Wright > >> Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 3:48 AM > >> To: 'eric britton'; Sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org > >> Subject: [sustran] Re: Why Free Public Transport is a BAD idea? - > Comments > >> > >> While I am somewhat neutral on this topic, I would note that many of the > arguments put forth would apply equally to sidewalks, cycle ways, public > parks, public toilets, etc. > >> > >> And yet, I doubt most of us would advocate charging a fee for use of > these (although there are cities that do charge for access to parks and > toilets). > >> > >> We don't generally advocate charging a fee for using the sidewalk > because it is viewed as a public good. And hopefully we all support walking > as public policy (as well as cycling and public transport). > >> > >> I am struck by the fact that in many cities with free public transport, > the Armageddon suggested in some of the comments does not happen. The > systems are well maintained and operated. There are still pedestrians and > cyclists. > >> And they do not become too crowded because they are sized to meet the > demand, which should be a design principle regardless of the fare level. > >> > >> The free transport business model can also be sustainable. For example, > Orlando (FL) has a very nice free inner city BRT service paid for by fees on > private vehicles (which has a nice bit of justice to it). Miami has a truly > wonderful free People Mover. > >> > >> Obviously, the examples from Florida and Belgium are not representative > of what would happen in developing Asia. But I am not sure that free public > transport is out of the question for these contexts. > >> > >> And hopefully, we can continue to use sidewalks, cycle ways, parks, and > toilets before the economists demand a strict application of user/polluter > pays. > >> > >> Best, > >> > >> Lloyd > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+lwright=vivacities.org@list.jca.apc.org > >> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+lwright > =vivacities.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of eric britton > >> Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 17:53 > >> To: Sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org > >> Subject: [sustran] Why Free Public Transport is a BAD idea? - Comments > >> > >> New comment on your post "Why Free Public Transport is a bad idea?" > >> Author : Anzir Boodoo (IP: 91.107.131.247 , 91.107.131.247) E-mail : > ab@transcience.co.uk > >> > >> > >> Eric, > >> > >> I think you are forgetting a couple of other major reasons... > >> > >> 5. Free public transport creates modal shift from walking (and possibly > cycling). For example, the free city centre bus in Leeds (UK) has mostly > replaced trips on foot, not trips by taxi from the railway station (as > >> intended) or even short hop trips by bus. Free public transport can thus > be a loser on public health grounds (people should be walking and cycling > more), and CO2 emissions (which are higher by bus than on foot) > >> > >> 6. Free public transport may encourage people to travel more, since the > only cost is their time. This will also increase individuals' level of > emissions, not to mention pollution from diesel buses (as they will stop > more and we will need more of them) > >> > >> 7. Free public transport may encourage people to use their city centres > more than local suburban centres (I don't have any evidence for this!), or > large out of town hypermarkets instead of their local suburban centres or > local shops. > >> > >> 8. Free public transport is unfair on the "polluter pays principle". All > transport produces CO2 emissions, from breathing when you walk or cycle, to > the fuel use of motorised transport. Are we allowing people to burn fuel and > not pay for the damage this causes? > >> > >> 9. It's well known anecdotally (from observation, if not from studies) > that people value things they pay for, and not necessarily things they get > for free (see "the tragedy of the commons"). What about respect for drivers, > vehicles and infrastructure? > >> > >> Before you ask, I'm all for cheaper public transport, and believe we > should be subsudising it to an extent, but I don't think making it free is > the answer. I know the mayors and officials of towns like Hasselt in Belgium > (where buses are free) would disagree... > >> > >> You can see all comments on this post here: > >> > http://worldstreets.wordpress.com/2010/07/07/why-free-public-transport-is-a- > >> bad-idea/#comments > >> > >> > >> -------------------------------------------------------- > >> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > >> > >> -------------------------------------------------------- > >> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > >> > >> ================================================================ > >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > >> > >> -------------------------------------------------------- > >> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > >> > >> -------------------------------------------------------- > >> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > >> > >> ================================================================ > >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > >> -------------------------------------------------------- > >> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > >> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > >> > >> -------------------------------------------------------- > >> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > >> > >> ================================================================ > >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > >> > >> > >> > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > > > ================================================================ > > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > > > > > > > -- > > Todd Edelman > Green Idea Factory, > a member of the OPENbike team > > Mobile: ++49(0)162 814 4081 > Immobile: ++49(0)30 7554 0001 > > edelman@greenidea.eu > www.greenidea.eu > todd@openbike.se > www.openbike.se > > Skype: toddedelman > > Urbanstr. 45 > 10967 Berlin > Germany > > *** > > OPENbike - Share the Perfect Fit! > > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Sun Jul 11 02:39:10 2010 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric britton) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 19:39:10 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Gender, Economic Integration and Cross-Border Infrastructure Development Message-ID: <01cc01cb2056$d5793d80$806bb880$@britton@ecoplan.org> Gender, Economic Integration and Cross-Border Infrastructure Development The Editor | 9 July 2010 at 19:23 | Categories: Global South , gender | URL: http://wp.me/psKUY-Jh We do not often provide coverage of conferences and their output, however World Streets is strongly committed to the concept of taking women's needs as the prime target, the defining metric of transport policy and practice in cities and in rural areas. (If you click to http://worldstreets.wordpress.com/category/women/ you will be taken to other articles in [...] Read more of this post Add a comment to this post From operations at velomondial.net Sun Jul 11 16:12:41 2010 From: operations at velomondial.net (Velo Mondial) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 09:12:41 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Re: Gender, Economic Integration and Cross-Border Infrastructure Development In-Reply-To: <01cc01cb2056$d5793d80$806bb880$@britton@ecoplan.org> References: <01cc01cb2056$d5793d80$806bb880$@britton@ecoplan.org> Message-ID: <6CE430C3385A4DA9AD84716DC41FAC36@WINGSYNLG30GF5> During the World CarFree Conference in York, that Velo Mondial attended a video was created asking some experts to comment on the plans of Guadelajara Jalisco Mexico to build a highway. The plans resembled those that Amsterdam had back in the sixties of building a highway through the city; Amsterdammers blocked those plans and now we have the pretty city that Amsterdam is. The video was put on Youtube but the government of Jalisco was not pleased and asked YouTube to bring it down (after around 15,000 hits) claiming misuse of Copyright! That proved to be an action on the same level in communication as the plans are for building the road in the field of mobility. It became a much larger issue, calling even more attention on people worried about censorship and accountability. Two days later another 11,000 saw the video on YouTube. http://velomondial.blogspot.com/2010/07/drama-in-guadalajara-mexico.html Pascal J.W. van den Noort Executive Director Velo Mondial operations@velomondial.net +31206270675 landline +31627055688 mobile phone -------------------------------------------------- From: "eric britton" Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 7:39 PM To: Subject: [sustran] Gender,Economic Integration and Cross-Border Infrastructure Development > > > > Gender, > d-cross-border-infrastructure-development/> Economic Integration and > Cross-Border Infrastructure Development > > The Editor | 9 > July 2010 at 19:23 | Categories: Global South > , gender > | URL: > http://wp.me/psKUY-Jh > We do not often provide coverage of conferences and their output, however > World Streets is strongly committed to the concept of taking women's > needs > as the prime target, the defining metric of transport policy and practice > in > cities and in rural areas. (If you click to > http://worldstreets.wordpress.com/category/women/ you will be taken to > other > articles in [...] > Read > d-cross-border-infrastructure-development/> more of this post > Add > d-cross-border-infrastructure-development/#respond> a comment to this > post > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > From simon.bishop at dimts.in Mon Jul 12 13:45:01 2010 From: simon.bishop at dimts.in (Simon Bishop) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 10:15:01 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: Why Free Public Transport is a BAD idea? - Comments In-Reply-To: References: <000001cb1f54$41b9a330$c52ce990$@org> <46E2E1971BCEC1459149FBB1A4B4342C08D5A94E@wricsex029330.WRI.CRM.Local> <4C3715CE.1010401@gmail.com> <4C371F28.6040904@greenidea.eu> Message-ID: <247EE4DD2AD33940B402771AC8C2CDFE42C09A0E7A@dimts-exch.dimts.org> Dear Sustran-Discuss Focusing on the impact of free public transport on public transport use is missing the point, as unpopular politically to swallow as it is. Measures to rein in car use, principally by raising its cost have a disproportionate impact on encouraging greater transit use than lowering the costs of public transport. That's because using a car/motorcycle (the case in nearly all countries/cities of the world) is more convenient than using transit. In case the table figures from Mayer Hillman below seems 'Londoncentric', Professor Mohan at IIT-Delhi has found that up to distances of 12km (most urban journeys) the car is faster than both Metro and BRT. Given that time is now almost out to reduce transport's contribution to climate change perhaps our emphasis should shift accordingly? "It can be seen from the table below that car drivers' travel time is far lower than bus or rail, from which it can again be observed that it is wholly unrealistic to anticipate a future in which public transport could compete in door-to-door speed with the car on journeys up to 10 miles, accounting for 86 per cent of all journeys. Moreover, when attention is turned to the influence of the costs of travel, it is apparent that, unless the real and perceived costs of car travel, for instance in relation to speed, parking and fuel prices, are dramatically increased, holding down fares is likely to have only a minor effect on this particular modal choice: a modeling exercise has revealed that halving public transport fares would only reduce car traffic by two per cent (Dasgupta et al., 1994), and if public transport were free, car use would be reduced by no more than 6 per cent (Norris, 1995)." Mayer Hillman (Senior Fellow Emeritus, Policy Studies Institute) in Chapter 8 in The Greening of Urban Transport (ed. Rodney Tolley), John Wiley and Sons, 1997. Table 4 Mean overall journey time, in minutes, by travel method and length of journey, Great Britain Distance band in miles <1 1<2 2<5 5<10 Walk 11 26 51 115 Cycle 7 13 22 40 London stage bus 19 23 36 54 Other stage bus 14 18 26 39 British Rail 31 30 32 44 Car driver 5 7 12 20 Source: special tabulation from National Travel Survey 1991/93 -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+simon.bishop=dimts.in@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+simon.bishop=dimts.in@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of Roger Gorham Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 9:50 PM To: edelman@greenidea.eu Cc: sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org Subject: [sustran] Re: Why Free Public Transport is a BAD idea? - Comments I agree with the sentiment expressed here by some that it depends heavily on the local context and the objective for which "free" public transport (that is, someone other than the user pays all the costs) is being proposed. But for most of the usual-suspect-objectives that people have already cited -- support a public good, bolster public transport's mode share, or reduce private car use -- removing from the user all burden of cost-sharing will generally prove to be ineffective. In time-sensitive environments (e.g. developed-country cities), free public transport will generally slow the system down (artificial "congestion" from higher frequency of stops, more people boarding at stops) which would further incentivize private vehicle use. (Lloyd mentions a couple of exceptions, but these seem to be highly niched circumstances, with minuscule mode share, I would imagine.) In developing country cities, the very immediate logistical problem is that "public" transport is provided by thousands of small operators -- there is no way to contemplate creating a "free' system under these circumstances without generating a myriad of other problems that would be too horrible to think about. So the larger question is how to transform these systems into more manageable, sustainable, and organized public tranpsort delivery systems, which is what we are all grappling with. In short, "user-doensn't-pay" systems may be ok in a limited number of circumstances to meet specific objectives, but it should not be an abstract goal we should be striving for. On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 9:07 AM, Todd Edelman wrote: > Hi, > > Implementing fare-free use of collective or individual public transport > is quite context-specific. There are many current metro systems in the > U.S, Europe etc. which could not handle the extra burden without massive > investment and/or shift to home working, bicycles and so on.... but then > again many public bicycle systems are nearly fare-free as a way to > promote cycling, so why not the same for public transport systems which > are new or have the capacity? The 30min fare-free model for public bikes > can be inspiration for further fare-free travel using collective means, > but of course only in dense urban areas. (I am not advocating for fare > income to made up by advertising deals). > > Bottom line, public transport provision is a major part of any developed > or developing economy, and it seems unfair or silly to look for some/too > much fare income there whilst huge amounts of money are spent on areas > outside the mobility or urban livability sectors, such as on military > arms. Can we please make sure that the question to ask here is not > "Buses or bikepaths?" but "Buses or bombs?" > > - T > > On 09/07/10 14:27, Carlosfelipe Pardo wrote: > > Maybe the problem is the either/or of free or full costs, and not > > thinking of options between the two and progress towards the second. I > > propose the following: > > > > - Charge road users as close as possible to the real costs of their > > car/motorcycle use and earmark it for public transport > > - Do your best to reduce as much as possible the price of public > > transport operation (or increase frequencies etc) by use of the funds > > collected via polluter pays in cars etc. > > > > Maybe at some point it will be possible to have zero cost for public > > transport use? > > > > Best regards, > > > > Carlosfelipe Pardo > > > > On 09/07/2010 07:08 a.m., Lee Schipper wrote: > > > >> I disagree with Lloyd on the analogy. Public transport systems have very > high running costs/variable costs. While it is not free to maintain > cycleways or sidewalks, costs are small. And many of us DO advocate charging > for using roads! > >> > >> Lee Schipper, Ph.D > >> Project Scientist > >> Global Metropolitan Studies > >> > >> 2614 Dwight Way 2nd floor > >> University of California Berkeley > >> CA 94720-1782 USA > >> > >> TEL +1 510 642 6889 > >> FAX +1 510 642 6061 > >> CELL +1 202 262 7476 > >> skype: mrmeter > >> http://metrostudies.berkeley.edu/ > >> > >> Senior Research Engineer > >> Precourt Energy Efficiency Center > >> Stanford University > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org@list.jca.apc.org[mailto: > sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper = > wri.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of Lloyd Wright > >> Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 3:48 AM > >> To: 'eric britton'; Sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org > >> Subject: [sustran] Re: Why Free Public Transport is a BAD idea? - > Comments > >> > >> While I am somewhat neutral on this topic, I would note that many of the > arguments put forth would apply equally to sidewalks, cycle ways, public > parks, public toilets, etc. > >> > >> And yet, I doubt most of us would advocate charging a fee for use of > these (although there are cities that do charge for access to parks and > toilets). > >> > >> We don't generally advocate charging a fee for using the sidewalk > because it is viewed as a public good. And hopefully we all support walking > as public policy (as well as cycling and public transport). > >> > >> I am struck by the fact that in many cities with free public transport, > the Armageddon suggested in some of the comments does not happen. The > systems are well maintained and operated. There are still pedestrians and > cyclists. > >> And they do not become too crowded because they are sized to meet the > demand, which should be a design principle regardless of the fare level. > >> > >> The free transport business model can also be sustainable. For example, > Orlando (FL) has a very nice free inner city BRT service paid for by fees on > private vehicles (which has a nice bit of justice to it). Miami has a truly > wonderful free People Mover. > >> > >> Obviously, the examples from Florida and Belgium are not representative > of what would happen in developing Asia. But I am not sure that free public > transport is out of the question for these contexts. > >> > >> And hopefully, we can continue to use sidewalks, cycle ways, parks, and > toilets before the economists demand a strict application of user/polluter > pays. > >> > >> Best, > >> > >> Lloyd > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+lwright=vivacities.org@list.jca.apc.org > >> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+lwright > =vivacities.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of eric britton > >> Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 17:53 > >> To: Sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org > >> Subject: [sustran] Why Free Public Transport is a BAD idea? - Comments > >> > >> New comment on your post "Why Free Public Transport is a bad idea?" > >> Author : Anzir Boodoo (IP: 91.107.131.247 , 91.107.131.247) E-mail : > ab@transcience.co.uk > >> > >> > >> Eric, > >> > >> I think you are forgetting a couple of other major reasons... > >> > >> 5. Free public transport creates modal shift from walking (and possibly > cycling). For example, the free city centre bus in Leeds (UK) has mostly > replaced trips on foot, not trips by taxi from the railway station (as > >> intended) or even short hop trips by bus. Free public transport can thus > be a loser on public health grounds (people should be walking and cycling > more), and CO2 emissions (which are higher by bus than on foot) > >> > >> 6. Free public transport may encourage people to travel more, since the > only cost is their time. This will also increase individuals' level of > emissions, not to mention pollution from diesel buses (as they will stop > more and we will need more of them) > >> > >> 7. Free public transport may encourage people to use their city centres > more than local suburban centres (I don't have any evidence for this!), or > large out of town hypermarkets instead of their local suburban centres or > local shops. > >> > >> 8. Free public transport is unfair on the "polluter pays principle". All > transport produces CO2 emissions, from breathing when you walk or cycle, to > the fuel use of motorised transport. Are we allowing people to burn fuel and > not pay for the damage this causes? > >> > >> 9. It's well known anecdotally (from observation, if not from studies) > that people value things they pay for, and not necessarily things they get > for free (see "the tragedy of the commons"). What about respect for drivers, > vehicles and infrastructure? > >> > >> Before you ask, I'm all for cheaper public transport, and believe we > should be subsudising it to an extent, but I don't think making it free is > the answer. I know the mayors and officials of towns like Hasselt in Belgium > (where buses are free) would disagree... > >> > >> You can see all comments on this post here: > >> > http://worldstreets.wordpress.com/2010/07/07/why-free-public-transport-is-a- > >> bad-idea/#comments > >> > >> > >> -------------------------------------------------------- > >> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > >> > >> -------------------------------------------------------- > >> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > >> > >> ================================================================ > >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > >> > >> -------------------------------------------------------- > >> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > >> > >> -------------------------------------------------------- > >> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > >> > >> ================================================================ > >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > >> -------------------------------------------------------- > >> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > >> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > >> > >> -------------------------------------------------------- > >> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > >> > >> ================================================================ > >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > >> > >> > >> > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > > > ================================================================ > > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > > > > > > > -- > > Todd Edelman > Green Idea Factory, > a member of the OPENbike team > > Mobile: ++49(0)162 814 4081 > Immobile: ++49(0)30 7554 0001 > > edelman@greenidea.eu > www.greenidea.eu > todd@openbike.se > www.openbike.se > > Skype: toddedelman > > Urbanstr. 45 > 10967 Berlin > Germany > > *** > > OPENbike - Share the Perfect Fit! > > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > -------------------------------------------------------- To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss -------------------------------------------------------- If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From kanthikannan at gmail.com Mon Jul 12 18:32:53 2010 From: kanthikannan at gmail.com (Kanthi Kannan) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 15:02:53 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: Pelican Crossings!! Message-ID: <4c3ae15d.6202e70a.3090.ffff9ff8@mx.google.com> Dear all Greetings!! We are trying to get permissions to Install Pelican Crossings. Any one who has contacts with vendors? Or knows whom to contact to get the details of cost etc? Thanks Regards Kanthi THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT WALK From ashok.sreenivas at gmail.com Mon Jul 12 18:50:43 2010 From: ashok.sreenivas at gmail.com (Ashok Sreenivas) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 15:20:43 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: Pelican Crossings!! In-Reply-To: <4c3ae15d.6202e70a.3090.ffff9ff8@mx.google.com> References: <4c3ae15d.6202e70a.3090.ffff9ff8@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4C3AE573.9090809@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20100712/996c8b1e/attachment.html From sudhir at cai-asia.org Mon Jul 12 18:55:01 2010 From: sudhir at cai-asia.org (Sudhir) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 17:55:01 +0800 Subject: [sustran] Re: Pelican Crossings!! In-Reply-To: <4C3AE573.9090809@gmail.com> References: <4c3ae15d.6202e70a.3090.ffff9ff8@mx.google.com> <4C3AE573.9090809@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Kanthi, I agree with Ashok. It has been failure @ may places as nobody acknowledges it . Also add traffic calming with such elements.. regards Sudhir On 12 July 2010 17:50, Ashok Sreenivas wrote: > Dear Kanthi, > > A word of caution based on our experience. Installing pelican crossings by > themselves don't do much to increase pedestrian safety since most motorists > *and* pedestrians don't know how to use it - i.e. pedestrians don't know > how to operate it, and on the rare occasions they do, the resultant red is > completely ignored by most motorists who are just not used to such > "non-intersection" signals. So, my suggestion would be to introduce pelican > signals along with other elements such as signages, awareness building among > motorists and pedestrians, some amount of enforcement or using temporary > traffic wardens for a month or so, and maybe even a concurrent pedestrian > safety campaign in the vicinity of the pelican signals. > > Ashok > > > On 12/07/2010 3:02 PM, Kanthi Kannan wrote: > > Dear all > > > > Greetings!! > > We are trying to get permissions to Install Pelican Crossings. Any one who > has contacts with vendors? Or knows whom to contact to get the details of > cost etc? > > Thanks > > > > Regards > > > > Kanthi > > > > THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT WALK > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visithttp://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > -- Sudhir Gota Transport Specialist CAI-Asia Center Unit 3510, 35th Floor, Robinsons-Equitable Tower, ADB Avenue, Ortigas Center, Pasig City Metro Manila, Philippines 1605 Tel: +63-2-395-2843, Fax: +63-2-395-2846 www.cleanairinitiative.org Skype : sudhirgota From kanthikannan at gmail.com Mon Jul 12 19:04:24 2010 From: kanthikannan at gmail.com (Kanthi Kannan) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 15:34:24 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: Pelican Crossings!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4c3ae8c0.28588c0a.349a.ffffe281@mx.google.com> Dear Ashok and Sudhir Thanks but can we get the details so that we can start a discussion amongst the people in the area and also involve politicians and officials. Presently we do not have a clue about the costs and installation procedure. The traffic in Hyd is becoming bad to worse by the day and accidents are on the raise. People have stopped walking because walking has becoming Hazardous Thanks Regards Kanthi _____ From: Sudhir [mailto:sudhir@cai-asia.org] Sent: 12 July 2010 15:25 To: Ashok Sreenivas Cc: Kanthi Kannan; Sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org Subject: Re: [sustran] Re: Pelican Crossings!! Hi Kanthi, I agree with Ashok. It has been failure @ may places as nobody acknowledges it . Also add traffic calming with such elements.. regards Sudhir On 12 July 2010 17:50, Ashok Sreenivas wrote: Dear Kanthi, A word of caution based on our experience. Installing pelican crossings by themselves don't do much to increase pedestrian safety since most motorists and pedestrians don't know how to use it - i.e. pedestrians don't know how to operate it, and on the rare occasions they do, the resultant red is completely ignored by most motorists who are just not used to such "non-intersection" signals. So, my suggestion would be to introduce pelican signals along with other elements such as signages, awareness building among motorists and pedestrians, some amount of enforcement or using temporary traffic wardens for a month or so, and maybe even a concurrent pedestrian safety campaign in the vicinity of the pelican signals. Ashok On 12/07/2010 3:02 PM, Kanthi Kannan wrote: Dear all Greetings!! We are trying to get permissions to Install Pelican Crossings. Any one who has contacts with vendors? Or knows whom to contact to get the details of cost etc? Thanks Regards Kanthi THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT WALK -------------------------------------------------------- To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss -------------------------------------------------------- If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). -------------------------------------------------------- To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss -------------------------------------------------------- If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). -- Sudhir Gota Transport Specialist CAI-Asia Center Unit 3510, 35th Floor, Robinsons-Equitable Tower, ADB Avenue, Ortigas Center, Pasig City Metro Manila, Philippines 1605 Tel: +63-2-395-2843, Fax: +63-2-395-2846 www.cleanairinitiative.org Skype : sudhirgota From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Tue Jul 13 00:57:35 2010 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric britton) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 17:57:35 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Future leaders/Young researchers: - World Share/Transport Forum ??? Message-ID: <006d01cb21da$f7657640$e63062c0$@britton@ecoplan.org> Future leaders/Young researchers: There is, unfortunately, a significant "generational difference" concerning new thinking about transport policy and practice, and in most places decisions are still taken by those somewhat older professionals and politicians whose training and thinking were largely shaped in the suddenly far distant 20th century. Our goal with Kaohsiung 2010 should also be to take as a significant target to bring in as many younger people as possible, including both those already working in the sector and young people who are advancing their own training and research. I hope we will agree to make this among our high targets. Dear Colleagues, May I ask for your ideas, feedback and counsel on the following? 1. We are planning, as some of you know, to organize the first annual conference of the World Share/Transport Forum in Kaohsiung Taiwan in mid September, -- about which I attach some working notes by way of background and for more can point you to the in-process website at www.WorldStreets.org . 2. We have no budget - yet - for the following, but I have had an idea for this concerning which I should like to ask your counsel and possibly your support in some way. 3. Specifically, I would like to see if we can organize and finance a Junior Researcher/Activist parallel event, that would be open to anyone under say 35 who is active in the field of advancing the new mobility/sustainable transport agenda, and who would not be against spending say two weeks or so in Taiwan as an observer and participant in this first World Share Transport conference. . I see this as a low budget "backpack" kind of affair (cheap flights, Spartan accommodations, and a basic rice and fish diet), and would like to think about some form of "twinning" with locals in about the same age/interest slot. . I am sure that a number of you will have candidates for these slots, and in fact it would be good to have not only your thoughts but also, if you feel that there is something in this, one or more nominations. . The "application" process would consist of a page or some of background information on the candidate, a recommendation from someone known to us, plus a one page note from them outlining why they might be interested in such an adventure. And what they might do with what they learn about sharing (and the push for sustainable transport and sustainable cities in Taiwan while they are at it). . Skill base: Broad. In addition to the usual transport, environment and sustainable transport interests and skills, we would like to bring in some young people with background s in the behavioral sciences, government and media. . It would be great if we could figure out how to give them some kind of university or professional certificate for "completion of the course requirements" (which would include a less than ten page lessons learned, observations, thinkpiece for publication with the other Young Researcher short reports). . Tell them to be careful about visa requirements. That's as far as I have taken it, other than to get a nod of approval from the organizers to ask you about this. So let's see. May I ask you kindly to reply to me in private via eric.britton@newmobility.org so as not to burn up the airwaves with details that will not concern the whole group. I shall then report back to you all on progress, next steps, etc. if indeed progress there is. Thanks for thinking with us about this. Eric Britton * World Streets is available daily at worldstreets.org and www.facebook.worldstreets.org . * Africa Streets is getting underway at www.africastreets.wordpress.org * Les Rues du Monde in start-up mode at www.lesruesdumonde.org * And the New Mobility Partnerships and its collaborative programs at www.program.newmobility.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Central focus of Kaohsiung 2010 - Working notes for comment.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 93593 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20100712/ea6bbe07/us-asciiQCentral_focus_of_Kaohsiung_2010_-_Working_notes_for_comment-0001.bin From info at autofrei-wohnen.de Tue Jul 13 01:46:53 2010 From: info at autofrei-wohnen.de (Markus Heller) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 18:46:53 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Fw: car free business districts [help needed for research] Message-ID: <3CDB8FE1BC79482F8739903E536D954D@user7c0f8571c8> any help for John McGovern appreciated ! Markus www.autofrei.de www.autofrei-wohnen.de ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: John McGovern Date: 6 July 2010 20:15 Subject: car free business districts To: info@worldcarfree.net Good Day! I am researching car-free business districts that utilize investments in bike/ped/transit infrastructure to foster a connected human-scale economy, ala elements of Small is Beautiful, Mondragon, & Slow Money. I would greatly appreciate any resources you can offer from around the world. Kind regards, John __________________________________________ John McGovern Clean Transportation Program Coordinator DOE Clean Cities Program Earth Day Coalition 3606 Bridge Avenue/ Cleveland/OH/44113 T: 216.281.6468 X223 F: 216.281.5112 E: jmcgovern@earthdaycoalition.org consider becoming a member today! www.earthdaycoalition.org/cleantransport : fuel, practice, & technology solutions to petroleum & emissions __________________________________________ EARTH DAY -- EVERY DAY __________________________________________ From ianenvironmental at googlemail.com Tue Jul 13 04:39:51 2010 From: ianenvironmental at googlemail.com (Ian Perry) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 20:39:51 +0100 Subject: [sustran] Re: Pelican Crossings!! Message-ID: > > Hi, >> >> Taking a European viewpoint, pelican crossings are being replaced by >> puffin crossings, advantages include them sensing the presence of >> pedestrians, and having the pedestrian lights closer (to help those with >> poorer vision) and at an angle that enables people to watch both the light >> and approaching traffic. >> >> Meanwhile, more progressive cities are replacing pelican crossings with >> zebra crossings - or shared space. >> >> The cost of a puffin or pelican crossing is about ?40,000 (US$70,000) - >> money that could be spent on many better things? >> >> Even in Europe, most pedestrians cross before the lights change for them, >> and many motorists ignore or miss red lights - resulting in deaths. >> >> Zebra crossings are much cheaper - and money saved can be spent on >> "educating" people (motorists) and bicycle infrastructure! Please don't >> follow our mistakes... >> > > >> Ian >> >> > http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/s/2215_pelican_crossing_death_was_a_tragic_accident > > > > > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/road-safety/3247116/Pedestrian-death-figures-prompt-call-for-more-zebra-crossing-points.html > > > > > > http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1282236/Trainee-barrister-23-killed-pedestrian-crossing-saves-EIGHT-lives-donor-just-weeks-earlier.html > > >> >> >> --- In sustran-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "Kanthi Kannan" >> wrote: >> > >> > Dear Ashok and Sudhir >> > >> > >> > >> > Thanks but can we get the details so that we can start a discussion >> amongst >> > the people in the area and also involve politicians and officials. >> Presently >> > we do not have a clue about the costs and installation procedure. >> > >> > >> > >> > The traffic in Hyd is becoming bad to worse by the day and accidents are >> on >> > the raise. People have stopped walking because walking has becoming >> > Hazardous >> > >> > >> > >> > Thanks >> > >> > >> > >> > Regards >> > >> > >> > >> > Kanthi >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _____ >> > >> > From: Sudhir [mailto:sudhir@...] >> > Sent: 12 July 2010 15:25 >> > To: Ashok Sreenivas >> > Cc: Kanthi Kannan; Sustran-discuss@... >> > Subject: Re: [sustran] Re: Pelican Crossings!! >> > >> > >> > >> > Hi Kanthi, >> > >> > >> > >> > I agree with Ashok. It has been failure @ may places as nobody >> acknowledges >> > it . Also add traffic calming with such elements.. >> > >> > >> > >> > regards >> > >> > Sudhir >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On 12 July 2010 17:50, Ashok Sreenivas wrote: >> > >> > Dear Kanthi, >> > >> > A word of caution based on our experience. Installing pelican crossings >> by >> > themselves don't do much to increase pedestrian safety since most >> motorists >> > and pedestrians don't know how to use it - i.e. pedestrians don't know >> how >> > to operate it, and on the rare occasions they do, the resultant red is >> > completely ignored by most motorists who are just not used to such >> > "non-intersection" signals. So, my suggestion would be to introduce >> pelican >> > signals along with other elements such as signages, awareness building >> among >> > motorists and pedestrians, some amount of enforcement or using temporary >> > traffic wardens for a month or so, and maybe even a concurrent >> pedestrian >> > safety campaign in the vicinity of the pelican signals. >> > >> > Ashok >> > >> > >> > >> > On 12/07/2010 3:02 PM, Kanthi Kannan wrote: >> > >> > Dear all >> > >> > >> > >> > Greetings!! >> > >> > We are trying to get permissions to Install Pelican Crossings. Any one >> who >> > has contacts with vendors? Or knows whom to contact to get the details >> of >> > cost etc? >> > >> > Thanks >> > >> > >> > >> > Regards >> > >> > >> > >> > Kanthi >> > >> > >> > >> > THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT WALK >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -------------------------------------------------------- >> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >> > >> > -------------------------------------------------------- >> > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >> > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the >> real >> > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >> > >> > ================================================================ >> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries >> > (the 'Global South'). >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -------------------------------------------------------- >> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >> > >> > -------------------------------------------------------- >> > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >> > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the >> real >> > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >> > >> > ================================================================ >> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries >> > (the 'Global South'). >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Sudhir Gota >> > Transport Specialist >> > CAI-Asia Center >> > Unit 3510, 35th Floor, Robinsons-Equitable Tower, >> > ADB Avenue, Ortigas Center, Pasig City >> > Metro Manila, Philippines 1605 >> > Tel: +63-2-395-2843, Fax: +63-2-395-2846 >> > www.cleanairinitiative.org >> > Skype : sudhirgota >> > >> > -------------------------------------------------------- >> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >> > >> > -------------------------------------------------------- >> > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real >> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >> > >> > ================================================================ >> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries >> (the 'Global South'). >> > >> >> >> >> > From bruun at seas.upenn.edu Tue Jul 13 06:38:13 2010 From: bruun at seas.upenn.edu (bruun at seas.upenn.edu) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 17:38:13 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: Why Free Public Transport is a BAD idea? - Comments In-Reply-To: <247EE4DD2AD33940B402771AC8C2CDFE42C09A0E7A@dimts-exch.dimts.org> References: <000001cb1f54$41b9a330$c52ce990$@org> <46E2E1971BCEC1459149FBB1A4B4342C08D5A94E@wricsex029330.WRI.CRM.Local> <4C3715CE.1010401@gmail.com> <4C371F28.6040904@greenidea.eu> <247EE4DD2AD33940B402771AC8C2CDFE42C09A0E7A@dimts-exch.dimts.org> Message-ID: <20100712173813.132229mtd845pkys@webmail.seas.upenn.edu> Dear discussants: No wonder I keep reading this listserve. There is a lot of informed opinion out there. I want to add two perspectives that haven't been covered so far: 1) There are lots of places in the US where the farebox only covers 10 to 20 percent of the operating cost and the effort to collect fares even adds a few percent to operating cost. At the same time, there is not really a peak demand problem causing overloading. (This would be a good problem these operators would like to develop.) In this case, I think having zero fare is OK. It makes little difference to the subsidy required, it helps generate ridership and familiarity with public transport, it subsidizes those at the bottom of the income scale, and it helps the 32 percent of the population that don't have driver's licenses. In the US this about 100 million people. 2) It isn't always true that driving is faster for trips under 12km. Especially when one must hunt for parking. I could drive to Center City Philadelphia from my house, but I might have to circle for 10 minutes just to find parking. And if I want to save time, the odds are that I would pay $6 for one hour if I gave up hunting for on-street parking. The streetcar takes me there in a few minutes longer but I have no worries once I get there. The trick is to make this true in ever-larger parts of the city. Due to total stagnation in PT development for decades, the size of this area hasn't been expanding in my city, or in most US cities. But in European cities where the median income is far higher than in Philadelphia like Munich, Helsinki or Stockholm that have seen ever-expanding systems and systems where service is reliable and frequent, there is a large part of the city where PT outperforms the car. Hence ridership per capita of PT exceeds 400 per year. Eric Bruun Quoting Simon Bishop : > Dear Sustran-Discuss > > Focusing on the impact of free public transport on public transport > use is missing the point, as unpopular politically to swallow as it > is. > > Measures to rein in car use, principally by raising its cost have a > disproportionate impact on encouraging greater transit use than > lowering the costs of public transport. That's because using a > car/motorcycle (the case in nearly all countries/cities of the > world) is more convenient than using transit. > > In case the table figures from Mayer Hillman below seems > 'Londoncentric', Professor Mohan at IIT-Delhi has found that up to > distances of 12km (most urban journeys) the car is faster than both > Metro and BRT. Given that time is now almost out to reduce > transport's contribution to climate change perhaps our emphasis > should shift accordingly? > > "It can be seen from the table below that car drivers' travel time > is far lower than bus or rail, from which it can again be observed > that it is wholly unrealistic to anticipate a future in which public > transport could compete in door-to-door speed with the car on > journeys up to 10 miles, accounting for 86 per cent of all journeys. > Moreover, when attention is turned to the influence of the costs of > travel, it is apparent that, unless the real and perceived costs of > car travel, for instance in relation to speed, parking and fuel > prices, are dramatically increased, holding down fares is likely to > have only a minor effect on this particular modal choice: a modeling > exercise has revealed that halving public transport fares would only > reduce car traffic by two per cent (Dasgupta et al., 1994), and if > public transport were free, car use would be reduced by no more than > 6 per cent (Norris, 1995)." > > Mayer Hillman (Senior Fellow Emeritus, Policy Studies Institute) in > Chapter 8 in The Greening of Urban Transport (ed. Rodney Tolley), > John Wiley and Sons, 1997. > > > Table 4 Mean overall journey time, in minutes, by travel method and > length of journey, Great Britain > > Distance band in miles > > > <1 > 1<2 > 2<5 > 5<10 > > > Walk > 11 > 26 > 51 > 115 > > > Cycle > 7 > 13 > 22 > 40 > > > London stage bus > 19 > 23 > 36 > 54 > > > Other stage bus > 14 > 18 > 26 > 39 > > > British Rail > 31 > 30 > 32 > 44 > > > Car driver > 5 > 7 > 12 > 20 > > Source: special tabulation from National Travel Survey 1991/93 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sustran-discuss-bounces+simon.bishop=dimts.in@list.jca.apc.org > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+simon.bishop=dimts.in@list.jca.apc.org] On > Behalf Of Roger Gorham > Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 9:50 PM > To: edelman@greenidea.eu > Cc: sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org > Subject: [sustran] Re: Why Free Public Transport is a BAD idea? - Comments > > I agree with the sentiment expressed here by some that it depends heavily on > the local context and the objective for which "free" public transport (that > is, someone other than the user pays all the costs) is being proposed. But > for most of the usual-suspect-objectives that people have already cited -- > support a public good, bolster public transport's mode share, or reduce > private car use -- removing from the user all burden of cost-sharing will > generally prove to be ineffective. In time-sensitive environments (e.g. > developed-country cities), free public transport will generally slow the > system down (artificial "congestion" from higher frequency of stops, more > people boarding at stops) which would further incentivize private vehicle > use. (Lloyd mentions a couple of exceptions, but these seem to be highly > niched circumstances, with minuscule mode share, I would imagine.) In > developing country cities, the very immediate logistical problem is that > "public" transport is provided by thousands of small operators -- there is > no way to contemplate creating a "free' system under these circumstances > without generating a myriad of other problems that would be too horrible to > think about. So the larger question is how to transform these systems into > more manageable, sustainable, and organized public tranpsort delivery > systems, which is what we are all grappling with. > > In short, "user-doensn't-pay" systems may be ok in a limited number of > circumstances to meet specific objectives, but it should not be an abstract > goal we should be striving for. > > > On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 9:07 AM, Todd Edelman wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Implementing fare-free use of collective or individual public transport >> is quite context-specific. There are many current metro systems in the >> U.S, Europe etc. which could not handle the extra burden without massive >> investment and/or shift to home working, bicycles and so on.... but then >> again many public bicycle systems are nearly fare-free as a way to >> promote cycling, so why not the same for public transport systems which >> are new or have the capacity? The 30min fare-free model for public bikes >> can be inspiration for further fare-free travel using collective means, >> but of course only in dense urban areas. (I am not advocating for fare >> income to made up by advertising deals). >> >> Bottom line, public transport provision is a major part of any developed >> or developing economy, and it seems unfair or silly to look for some/too >> much fare income there whilst huge amounts of money are spent on areas >> outside the mobility or urban livability sectors, such as on military >> arms. Can we please make sure that the question to ask here is not >> "Buses or bikepaths?" but "Buses or bombs?" >> >> - T >> >> On 09/07/10 14:27, Carlosfelipe Pardo wrote: >> > Maybe the problem is the either/or of free or full costs, and not >> > thinking of options between the two and progress towards the second. I >> > propose the following: >> > >> > - Charge road users as close as possible to the real costs of their >> > car/motorcycle use and earmark it for public transport >> > - Do your best to reduce as much as possible the price of public >> > transport operation (or increase frequencies etc) by use of the funds >> > collected via polluter pays in cars etc. >> > >> > Maybe at some point it will be possible to have zero cost for public >> > transport use? >> > >> > Best regards, >> > >> > Carlosfelipe Pardo >> > >> > On 09/07/2010 07:08 a.m., Lee Schipper wrote: >> > >> >> I disagree with Lloyd on the analogy. Public transport systems have very >> high running costs/variable costs. While it is not free to maintain >> cycleways or sidewalks, costs are small. And many of us DO advocate charging >> for using roads! >> >> >> >> Lee Schipper, Ph.D >> >> Project Scientist >> >> Global Metropolitan Studies >> >> >> >> 2614 Dwight Way 2nd floor >> >> University of California Berkeley >> >> CA 94720-1782 USA >> >> >> >> TEL +1 510 642 6889 >> >> FAX +1 510 642 6061 >> >> CELL +1 202 262 7476 >> >> skype: mrmeter >> >> http://metrostudies.berkeley.edu/ >> >> >> >> Senior Research Engineer >> >> Precourt Energy Efficiency Center >> >> Stanford University >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org@list.jca.apc.org[mailto: >> sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper = >> wri.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of Lloyd Wright >> >> Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 3:48 AM >> >> To: 'eric britton'; Sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org >> >> Subject: [sustran] Re: Why Free Public Transport is a BAD idea? - >> Comments >> >> >> >> While I am somewhat neutral on this topic, I would note that many of the >> arguments put forth would apply equally to sidewalks, cycle ways, public >> parks, public toilets, etc. >> >> >> >> And yet, I doubt most of us would advocate charging a fee for use of >> these (although there are cities that do charge for access to parks and >> toilets). >> >> >> >> We don't generally advocate charging a fee for using the sidewalk >> because it is viewed as a public good. And hopefully we all support walking >> as public policy (as well as cycling and public transport). >> >> >> >> I am struck by the fact that in many cities with free public transport, >> the Armageddon suggested in some of the comments does not happen. The >> systems are well maintained and operated. There are still pedestrians and >> cyclists. >> >> And they do not become too crowded because they are sized to meet the >> demand, which should be a design principle regardless of the fare level. >> >> >> >> The free transport business model can also be sustainable. For example, >> Orlando (FL) has a very nice free inner city BRT service paid for by fees on >> private vehicles (which has a nice bit of justice to it). Miami has a truly >> wonderful free People Mover. >> >> >> >> Obviously, the examples from Florida and Belgium are not representative >> of what would happen in developing Asia. But I am not sure that free public >> transport is out of the question for these contexts. >> >> >> >> And hopefully, we can continue to use sidewalks, cycle ways, parks, and >> toilets before the economists demand a strict application of user/polluter >> pays. >> >> >> >> Best, >> >> >> >> Lloyd >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+lwright=vivacities.org@list.jca.apc.org >> >> >> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+lwright >> =vivacities.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of eric britton >> >> Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 17:53 >> >> To: Sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org >> >> Subject: [sustran] Why Free Public Transport is a BAD idea? - Comments >> >> >> >> New comment on your post "Why Free Public Transport is a bad idea?" >> >> Author : Anzir Boodoo (IP: 91.107.131.247 , 91.107.131.247) E-mail : >> ab@transcience.co.uk >> >> >> >> >> >> Eric, >> >> >> >> I think you are forgetting a couple of other major reasons... >> >> >> >> 5. Free public transport creates modal shift from walking (and possibly >> cycling). For example, the free city centre bus in Leeds (UK) has mostly >> replaced trips on foot, not trips by taxi from the railway station (as >> >> intended) or even short hop trips by bus. Free public transport can thus >> be a loser on public health grounds (people should be walking and cycling >> more), and CO2 emissions (which are higher by bus than on foot) >> >> >> >> 6. Free public transport may encourage people to travel more, since the >> only cost is their time. This will also increase individuals' level of >> emissions, not to mention pollution from diesel buses (as they will stop >> more and we will need more of them) >> >> >> >> 7. Free public transport may encourage people to use their city centres >> more than local suburban centres (I don't have any evidence for this!), or >> large out of town hypermarkets instead of their local suburban centres or >> local shops. >> >> >> >> 8. Free public transport is unfair on the "polluter pays principle". All >> transport produces CO2 emissions, from breathing when you walk or cycle, to >> the fuel use of motorised transport. Are we allowing people to burn fuel and >> not pay for the damage this causes? >> >> >> >> 9. It's well known anecdotally (from observation, if not from studies) >> that people value things they pay for, and not necessarily things they get >> for free (see "the tragedy of the commons"). What about respect for drivers, >> vehicles and infrastructure? >> >> >> >> Before you ask, I'm all for cheaper public transport, and believe we >> should be subsudising it to an extent, but I don't think making it free is >> the answer. I know the mayors and officials of towns like Hasselt in Belgium >> (where buses are free) would disagree... >> >> >> >> You can see all comments on this post here: >> >> >> http://worldstreets.wordpress.com/2010/07/07/why-free-public-transport-is-a- >> >> bad-idea/#comments >> >> >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> >> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> >> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real >> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >> >> >> >> ================================================================ >> >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries >> (the 'Global South'). >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> >> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> >> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real >> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >> >> >> >> ================================================================ >> >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries >> (the 'Global South'). >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> >> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >> >> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> >> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real >> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >> >> >> >> ================================================================ >> >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries >> (the 'Global South'). >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > -------------------------------------------------------- >> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >> > >> > -------------------------------------------------------- >> > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real >> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >> > >> > ================================================================ >> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries >> (the 'Global South'). >> > >> > >> >> >> -- >> >> Todd Edelman >> Green Idea Factory, >> a member of the OPENbike team >> >> Mobile: ++49(0)162 814 4081 >> Immobile: ++49(0)30 7554 0001 >> >> edelman@greenidea.eu >> www.greenidea.eu >> todd@openbike.se >> www.openbike.se >> >> Skype: toddedelman >> >> Urbanstr. 45 >> 10967 Berlin >> Germany >> >> *** >> >> OPENbike - Share the Perfect Fit! >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real >> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >> >> ================================================================ >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries >> (the 'Global South'). >> > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the > real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing > countries (the 'Global South'). > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the > real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing > countries (the 'Global South'). > > From whook at itdp.org Tue Jul 13 08:31:45 2010 From: whook at itdp.org (Walter Hook) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 19:31:45 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: Fw: car free business districts [help needed for research] In-Reply-To: <3CDB8FE1BC79482F8739903E536D954D@user7c0f8571c8> References: <3CDB8FE1BC79482F8739903E536D954D@user7c0f8571c8> Message-ID: Karl fjellstrom is doing some work documenting best practices in southern china. On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 12:46 PM, Markus Heller wrote: > any help for John McGovern appreciated ! > > Markus > www.autofrei.de > www.autofrei-wohnen.de > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: John McGovern > Date: 6 July 2010 20:15 > Subject: car free business districts > To: info@worldcarfree.net > > > > Good Day! > > > I am researching car-free business districts that utilize investments in > bike/ped/transit infrastructure to foster a connected human-scale economy, > ala elements of Small is Beautiful, Mondragon, & Slow Money. > > > I would greatly appreciate any resources you can offer from around the > world. > > > Kind regards, > > > John > > __________________________________________ > John McGovern > Clean Transportation Program Coordinator > DOE Clean Cities Program > Earth Day Coalition > 3606 Bridge Avenue/ Cleveland/OH/44113 > > > T: 216.281.6468 X223 > F: 216.281.5112 > E: jmcgovern@earthdaycoalition.org > consider becoming a member today! > > > www.earthdaycoalition.org/cleantransport : fuel, practice, & technology > solutions to petroleum & emissions > __________________________________________ > > > EARTH DAY -- EVERY DAY > __________________________________________ > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > -- Walter Hook Executive Director Institute for Transportation and Development Policy 127 W 26 St, Ste 1002 New York, NY 10001 1-212-629-8001 www.itdp.org Promoting sustainable and equitable transportation worldwide. From dsengupta at gmail.com Tue Jul 13 09:07:16 2010 From: dsengupta at gmail.com (Dibu Sengupta) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 20:07:16 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: Pelican Crossings!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Kanthi, I agree with what Ian has to say. Installation of a pelican crossing in a city like Hyderabad or any Indian city where traffic and pedestrian behaviour is erratic and without much enforcement, would be nothing short of disaster. Other systems that including a traditional mid-block pedestrian crossing, HAWK signals (that have been in use in the US) and other signal systems would also not amount to much. All of these systems would need maintenance expenditure, power back-up, utility relocation and setup that could be better used on separate pedestrian/walkable solutions. On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 3:39 PM, Ian Perry wrote: > > > > Hi, > >> > >> Taking a European viewpoint, pelican crossings are being replaced by > >> puffin crossings, advantages include them sensing the presence of > >> pedestrians, and having the pedestrian lights closer (to help those with > >> poorer vision) and at an angle that enables people to watch both the > light > >> and approaching traffic. > >> > >> Meanwhile, more progressive cities are replacing pelican crossings with > >> zebra crossings - or shared space. > >> > >> The cost of a puffin or pelican crossing is about ?40,000 (US$70,000) - > >> money that could be spent on many better things? > >> > >> Even in Europe, most pedestrians cross before the lights change for > them, > >> and many motorists ignore or miss red lights - resulting in deaths. > >> > >> Zebra crossings are much cheaper - and money saved can be spent on > >> "educating" people (motorists) and bicycle infrastructure! Please don't > >> follow our mistakes... > >> > > > > > >> Ian > >> > >> > > > http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/s/2215_pelican_crossing_death_was_a_tragic_accident > > > > < > http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/s/2215_pelican_crossing_death_was_a_tragic_accident > > > > > > > > > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/road-safety/3247116/Pedestrian-death-figures-prompt-call-for-more-zebra-crossing-points.html > > > > > > > > < > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/road-safety/3247116/Pedestrian-death-figures-prompt-call-for-more-zebra-crossing-points.html > > > > > > > http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1282236/Trainee-barrister-23-killed-pedestrian-crossing-saves-EIGHT-lives-donor-just-weeks-earlier.html > > > > > >> > >> > >> --- In sustran-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "Kanthi Kannan" ...> > >> wrote: > >> > > >> > Dear Ashok and Sudhir > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Thanks but can we get the details so that we can start a discussion > >> amongst > >> > the people in the area and also involve politicians and officials. > >> Presently > >> > we do not have a clue about the costs and installation procedure. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > The traffic in Hyd is becoming bad to worse by the day and accidents > are > >> on > >> > the raise. People have stopped walking because walking has becoming > >> > Hazardous > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Thanks > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Regards > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Kanthi > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > _____ > >> > > >> > From: Sudhir [mailto:sudhir@...] > >> > Sent: 12 July 2010 15:25 > >> > To: Ashok Sreenivas > >> > Cc: Kanthi Kannan; Sustran-discuss@... > >> > Subject: Re: [sustran] Re: Pelican Crossings!! > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Hi Kanthi, > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > I agree with Ashok. It has been failure @ may places as nobody > >> acknowledges > >> > it . Also add traffic calming with such elements.. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > regards > >> > > >> > Sudhir > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > On 12 July 2010 17:50, Ashok Sreenivas wrote: > >> > > >> > Dear Kanthi, > >> > > >> > A word of caution based on our experience. Installing pelican > crossings > >> by > >> > themselves don't do much to increase pedestrian safety since most > >> motorists > >> > and pedestrians don't know how to use it - i.e. pedestrians don't know > >> how > >> > to operate it, and on the rare occasions they do, the resultant red is > >> > completely ignored by most motorists who are just not used to such > >> > "non-intersection" signals. So, my suggestion would be to introduce > >> pelican > >> > signals along with other elements such as signages, awareness building > >> among > >> > motorists and pedestrians, some amount of enforcement or using > temporary > >> > traffic wardens for a month or so, and maybe even a concurrent > >> pedestrian > >> > safety campaign in the vicinity of the pelican signals. > >> > > >> > Ashok > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > On 12/07/2010 3:02 PM, Kanthi Kannan wrote: > >> > > >> > Dear all > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Greetings!! > >> > > >> > We are trying to get permissions to Install Pelican Crossings. Any one > >> who > >> > has contacts with vendors? Or knows whom to contact to get the details > >> of > >> > cost etc? > >> > > >> > Thanks > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Regards > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Kanthi > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT WALK > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -------------------------------------------------------- > >> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > >> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > >> > > >> > -------------------------------------------------------- > >> > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > >> > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the > >> real > >> > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > >> > > >> > ================================================================ > >> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > >> > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing > countries > >> > (the 'Global South'). > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -------------------------------------------------------- > >> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > >> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > >> > > >> > -------------------------------------------------------- > >> > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > >> > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the > >> real > >> > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > >> > > >> > ================================================================ > >> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > >> > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing > countries > >> > (the 'Global South'). > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Sudhir Gota > >> > Transport Specialist > >> > CAI-Asia Center > >> > Unit 3510, 35th Floor, Robinsons-Equitable Tower, > >> > ADB Avenue, Ortigas Center, Pasig City > >> > Metro Manila, Philippines 1605 > >> > Tel: +63-2-395-2843, Fax: +63-2-395-2846 > >> > www.cleanairinitiative.org > >> > Skype : sudhirgota > >> > > >> > -------------------------------------------------------- > >> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > >> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > >> > > >> > -------------------------------------------------------- > >> > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > >> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the > real > >> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > >> > > >> > ================================================================ > >> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > >> (the 'Global South'). > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > From kanthikannan at gmail.com Tue Jul 13 14:26:53 2010 From: kanthikannan at gmail.com (Kanthi Kannan) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 10:56:53 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: Pelican Crossings!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4c3bf935.15098e0a.4c3c.2ed8@mx.google.com> Dear Dibu, Ian and others Thanks so much for the mails that you have sent with all the dangers. I now understand that R2W has to think of a much simpler solution and then check for the costs of that. Thanks Once Again Regards Kanthi -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+kanthikannan=gmail.com@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+kanthikannan=gmail.com@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of Dibu Sengupta Sent: 13 July 2010 05:37 To: sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org Subject: [sustran] Re: Pelican Crossings!! Kanthi, I agree with what Ian has to say. Installation of a pelican crossing in a city like Hyderabad or any Indian city where traffic and pedestrian behaviour is erratic and without much enforcement, would be nothing short of disaster. Other systems that including a traditional mid-block pedestrian crossing, HAWK signals (that have been in use in the US) and other signal systems would also not amount to much. All of these systems would need maintenance expenditure, power back-up, utility relocation and setup that could be better used on separate pedestrian/walkable solutions. On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 3:39 PM, Ian Perry wrote: > > > > Hi, > >> > >> Taking a European viewpoint, pelican crossings are being replaced by > >> puffin crossings, advantages include them sensing the presence of > >> pedestrians, and having the pedestrian lights closer (to help those with > >> poorer vision) and at an angle that enables people to watch both the > light > >> and approaching traffic. > >> > >> Meanwhile, more progressive cities are replacing pelican crossings with > >> zebra crossings - or shared space. > >> > >> The cost of a puffin or pelican crossing is about ?40,000 (US$70,000) - > >> money that could be spent on many better things? > >> > >> Even in Europe, most pedestrians cross before the lights change for > them, > >> and many motorists ignore or miss red lights - resulting in deaths. > >> > >> Zebra crossings are much cheaper - and money saved can be spent on > >> "educating" people (motorists) and bicycle infrastructure! Please don't > >> follow our mistakes... > >> > > > > > >> Ian > >> > >> > > > http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/s/2215_pelican_crossing_death_was_a_tragic_ accident > > > > < > http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/s/2215_pelican_crossing_death_was_a_tragic_ accident > > > > > > > > > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/road-safety/3247116/Pedestrian-death-fig ures-prompt-call-for-more-zebra-crossing-points.html > > > > > > > > < > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/road-safety/3247116/Pedestrian-death-fig ures-prompt-call-for-more-zebra-crossing-points.html > > > > > > > http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1282236/Trainee-barrister-23-killed- pedestrian-crossing-saves-EIGHT-lives-donor-just-weeks-earlier.html > > > > > >> > >> > >> --- In sustran-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "Kanthi Kannan" ...> > >> wrote: > >> > > >> > Dear Ashok and Sudhir > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Thanks but can we get the details so that we can start a discussion > >> amongst > >> > the people in the area and also involve politicians and officials. > >> Presently > >> > we do not have a clue about the costs and installation procedure. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > The traffic in Hyd is becoming bad to worse by the day and accidents > are > >> on > >> > the raise. People have stopped walking because walking has becoming > >> > Hazardous > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Thanks > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Regards > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Kanthi > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > _____ > >> > > >> > From: Sudhir [mailto:sudhir@...] > >> > Sent: 12 July 2010 15:25 > >> > To: Ashok Sreenivas > >> > Cc: Kanthi Kannan; Sustran-discuss@... > >> > Subject: Re: [sustran] Re: Pelican Crossings!! > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Hi Kanthi, > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > I agree with Ashok. It has been failure @ may places as nobody > >> acknowledges > >> > it . Also add traffic calming with such elements.. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > regards > >> > > >> > Sudhir > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > On 12 July 2010 17:50, Ashok Sreenivas wrote: > >> > > >> > Dear Kanthi, > >> > > >> > A word of caution based on our experience. Installing pelican > crossings > >> by > >> > themselves don't do much to increase pedestrian safety since most > >> motorists > >> > and pedestrians don't know how to use it - i.e. pedestrians don't know > >> how > >> > to operate it, and on the rare occasions they do, the resultant red is > >> > completely ignored by most motorists who are just not used to such > >> > "non-intersection" signals. So, my suggestion would be to introduce > >> pelican > >> > signals along with other elements such as signages, awareness building > >> among > >> > motorists and pedestrians, some amount of enforcement or using > temporary > >> > traffic wardens for a month or so, and maybe even a concurrent > >> pedestrian > >> > safety campaign in the vicinity of the pelican signals. > >> > > >> > Ashok > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > On 12/07/2010 3:02 PM, Kanthi Kannan wrote: > >> > > >> > Dear all > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Greetings!! > >> > > >> > We are trying to get permissions to Install Pelican Crossings. Any one > >> who > >> > has contacts with vendors? Or knows whom to contact to get the details > >> of > >> > cost etc? > >> > > >> > Thanks > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Regards > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Kanthi > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT WALK > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -------------------------------------------------------- > >> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > >> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > >> > > >> > -------------------------------------------------------- > >> > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > >> > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the > >> real > >> > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > >> > > >> > ================================================================ > >> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > >> > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing > countries > >> > (the 'Global South'). > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -------------------------------------------------------- > >> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > >> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > >> > > >> > -------------------------------------------------------- > >> > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > >> > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the > >> real > >> > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > >> > > >> > ================================================================ > >> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > >> > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing > countries > >> > (the 'Global South'). > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Sudhir Gota > >> > Transport Specialist > >> > CAI-Asia Center > >> > Unit 3510, 35th Floor, Robinsons-Equitable Tower, > >> > ADB Avenue, Ortigas Center, Pasig City > >> > Metro Manila, Philippines 1605 > >> > Tel: +63-2-395-2843, Fax: +63-2-395-2846 > >> > www.cleanairinitiative.org > >> > Skype : sudhirgota > >> > > >> > -------------------------------------------------------- > >> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > >> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > >> > > >> > -------------------------------------------------------- > >> > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > >> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the > real > >> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > >> > > >> > ================================================================ > >> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > >> (the 'Global South'). > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > -------------------------------------------------------- To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss -------------------------------------------------------- If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From paulbarter at nus.edu.sg Tue Jul 13 19:26:24 2010 From: paulbarter at nus.edu.sg (Paul Barter) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 18:26:24 +0800 Subject: [sustran] Parking in Asian cities (presentation) Message-ID: <6F850E42E4589F45AE2799F34B645C36015EB08BB6@MBX06.stf.nus.edu.sg> My presentation at the ADB Transport Forum in Manila in May was on 'Parking Policy in Asian cities - highlights'. You can now view the slides via: http://reinventingtransport.blogspot.com/2010/07/parking-in-asian-cities-highlights-and.html There are graphs that offer some comparative insight on parking policies and practices in more than a dozen Asian cities. As usual, I would really appreciate any feedback, here or in comments at the link. Paul Paul A. Barter | Assistant Professor | LKY School of Public Policy National University of Singapore | 469C Bukit Timah Road | Singapore 259772 | Tel: +65-6516 3324 | Fax: +65-6778 1020 | paulbarter@nus.edu.sg | http://www.spp.nus.edu.sg/Faculty_Paul_Barter.aspx http://reinventingtransport.blogspot.com/ From peebeebarter at gmail.com Tue Jul 13 21:44:49 2010 From: peebeebarter at gmail.com (Paul Barter) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 20:44:49 +0800 Subject: [sustran] Re: Pelican Crossings!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A few words on terminology. This is a useful debate on pedestrian facilities (and when or whether they help). But 'pelican crossing' and 'puffin crossing' are not familiar terms in most places outside Britain. [I for one didn't understand them until looking them up just now.] So here are some wikipedia definitions (which may be wrong?): "In the United Kingdom and parts of the Commonwealth, animal names are often used to distinguish several types of such crossings: - Zebra crossing : wide longitudinal stripes on road, often with belisha beacons; pedestrians may cross at any time; drivers must give way to pedestrians who demonstrate intent to cross. - Pelican crossing : traffic lights for pedestrians and vehicles; button-operated. - Puffin crossing : pedestrian lights on near side of road; button-operated with curb-side detector. - Toucan crossing : for bicycles as well as pedestrians." As an Australian (in Singapore) I would use 'pedestrian activated traffic lights' (or in casual conversation just 'pedestrian lights') for both pelican and puffin crossings. The animal terms are obviously shorter. But only useful if we all understand them. 'Zebra' seems common everywhere but not the others. All the best Paul From townsend at alcor.concordia.ca Wed Jul 14 01:25:42 2010 From: townsend at alcor.concordia.ca (Craig Townsend) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:25:42 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: Pelican Crossings!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <201007131626.o6DGQ3eA025093@dillinger.concordia.ca> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20100713/ab9530a2/attachment.html From cornie.huizenga at slocatpartnership.org Wed Jul 14 10:47:00 2010 From: cornie.huizenga at slocatpartnership.org (Cornie Huizenga) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 09:47:00 +0800 Subject: [sustran] Re: Pelican Crossings!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Paul, I very much like the part in the Zebra definition: "drivers must give way to pedestrians who demonstrate intent to cross". I am afraid that this part has not been read by 99.9% of the drivers in Asia. Having lived now in Asia for almost 15 years it is always a surprise when I go back to Europe and see cars stop when I am on the side of the road near a zebra crossing. Here in Asia I would put more trust in a pedestrian traffic light than in a zebra crossing. Cornie On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Paul Barter wrote: > A few words on terminology. > > This is a useful debate on pedestrian facilities (and when or whether they > help). > > But 'pelican crossing' and 'puffin crossing' are not familiar terms in most > places outside Britain. [I for one didn't understand them until looking > them > up just now.] > > So here are some wikipedia definitions (which may be wrong?): > > "In the United Kingdom and parts of the > Commonwealth, > animal names are often used to distinguish several types of such crossings: > > - Zebra crossing : wide > longitudinal stripes on road, often with belisha > beacons; > pedestrians may cross at any time; drivers must give way to pedestrians > who > demonstrate intent to cross. > - Pelican crossing : > traffic > lights for pedestrians and > vehicles; button-operated. > - Puffin crossing : > pedestrian lights on near side of road; button-operated with curb-side > detector. > - Toucan crossing : for > bicycles as well as pedestrians." > > > As an Australian (in Singapore) I would use 'pedestrian activated traffic > lights' (or in casual conversation just 'pedestrian lights') for both > pelican and puffin crossings. The animal terms are obviously shorter. But > only useful if we all understand them. 'Zebra' seems common everywhere but > not the others. > > All the best > > Paul > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > -- Cornie Huizenga Joint Convener Partnership on Sustainable, Low Carbon Transport Mobile: +86 13901949332 cornie.huizenga@slocatpartnership.org www.slocat.net From Sonal.Ahuja at capita.co.uk Wed Jul 14 10:53:08 2010 From: Sonal.Ahuja at capita.co.uk (Ahuja, Sonal (Capita Symonds)) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 02:53:08 +0100 Subject: [sustran] Re: Pelican Crossings!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41594C42FF20054B9A618022BFE688385BB1EE@CAPPRWMMBX11.central.ad.capita.co.uk> We have done some extensive tests with Pelican crossing with ped Detection in Delhi and are ongoing setup of a few crossing in Delhi. We did not propose puffin with on crossing detectors due to stop line enforcement issues and went for traditional pelicans. So far the results have been very promising. One has to be careful on the infrastructure is designed. In Delhi the roads are quite wide so intergreens can be large. So far these mid block crossings seem to operate without any probelms If you need more information please do not hesitate to ask. with warm regards Sonal Ahuja Director International Development, Technology Transport and Infrastructure CAPITA SYMONDS 86 Fetter Lane, London EC4A 1EN United Kingdom Tel: +44 (0) 77 88 666 523 Fax: +44 (0) 20 7870 9399 Mail: sonal.ahuja@capita.co.uk www.capitasymonds.co.uk CapiCapita Symonds Ltd Regiregistered office: 71 Victoria Street, Westminster, London SW1H 0XA. Registered in England No. 2018542 Part Part of the Capita Group Plc. www.capita.co.uk Think of the environment. Print only if necessary. -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+sonal.ahuja=capita.co.uk@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+sonal.ahuja=capita.co.uk@list.jca.apc.or g] On Behalf Of Cornie Huizenga Sent: 14 July 2010 02:47 To: Paul Barter Cc: sustran-discuss Subject: [sustran] Re: Pelican Crossings!! Paul, I very much like the part in the Zebra definition: "drivers must give way to pedestrians who demonstrate intent to cross". I am afraid that this part has not been read by 99.9% of the drivers in Asia. Having lived now in Asia for almost 15 years it is always a surprise when I go back to Europe and see cars stop when I am on the side of the road near a zebra crossing. Here in Asia I would put more trust in a pedestrian traffic light than in a zebra crossing. Cornie On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Paul Barter wrote: > A few words on terminology. > > This is a useful debate on pedestrian facilities (and when or whether they > help). > > But 'pelican crossing' and 'puffin crossing' are not familiar terms in most > places outside Britain. [I for one didn't understand them until looking > them > up just now.] > > So here are some wikipedia definitions (which may be wrong?): > > "In the United Kingdom and parts of the > Commonwealth, > animal names are often used to distinguish several types of such crossings: > > - Zebra crossing : wide > longitudinal stripes on road, often with belisha > beacons; > pedestrians may cross at any time; drivers must give way to pedestrians > who > demonstrate intent to cross. > - Pelican crossing : > traffic > lights for pedestrians and > vehicles; button-operated. > - Puffin crossing : > pedestrian lights on near side of road; button-operated with curb-side > detector. > - Toucan crossing : for > bicycles as well as pedestrians." > > > As an Australian (in Singapore) I would use 'pedestrian activated traffic > lights' (or in casual conversation just 'pedestrian lights') for both > pelican and puffin crossings. The animal terms are obviously shorter. But > only useful if we all understand them. 'Zebra' seems common everywhere but > not the others. > > All the best > > Paul > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > -- Cornie Huizenga Joint Convener Partnership on Sustainable, Low Carbon Transport Mobile: +86 13901949332 cornie.huizenga@slocatpartnership.org www.slocat.net -------------------------------------------------------- To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss -------------------------------------------------------- If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. This email and any attachment to it are confidential. Unless you are the intended recipient, you may not use, copy or disclose either the message or any information contained in the message. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this email and notify the sender immediately. Any views or opinions expressed in this email are those of the sender only, unless otherwise stated. All copyright in any Capita material in this email is reserved. All emails, incoming and outgoing, may be recorded by Capita and monitored for legitimate business purposes. Capita exclude all liability for any loss or damage arising or resulting from the receipt, use or transmission of this email to the fullest extent permitted by law. From kanthikannan at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 13:00:10 2010 From: kanthikannan at gmail.com (Kanthi Kannan) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 09:30:10 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: Pelican Crossings!! In-Reply-To: <41594C42FF20054B9A618022BFE688385BB1EE@CAPPRWMMBX11.central.ad.capita.co.uk> Message-ID: <4c3d3664.17018e0a.7b20.ffff8291@mx.google.com> Dear Sonal Greetings!! Thanks for the info. Can you send me the contact details of the companies that make Pelican Crossings? Thanks Regards Kanthi -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+kanthikannan=gmail.com@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+kanthikannan=gmail.com@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of Ahuja, Sonal (Capita Symonds) Sent: 14 July 2010 07:23 To: Cornie Huizenga; Paul Barter Cc: sustran-discuss Subject: [sustran] Re: Pelican Crossings!! We have done some extensive tests with Pelican crossing with ped Detection in Delhi and are ongoing setup of a few crossing in Delhi. We did not propose puffin with on crossing detectors due to stop line enforcement issues and went for traditional pelicans. So far the results have been very promising. One has to be careful on the infrastructure is designed. In Delhi the roads are quite wide so intergreens can be large. So far these mid block crossings seem to operate without any probelms If you need more information please do not hesitate to ask. with warm regards Sonal Ahuja Director International Development, Technology Transport and Infrastructure CAPITA SYMONDS 86 Fetter Lane, London EC4A 1EN United Kingdom Tel: +44 (0) 77 88 666 523 Fax: +44 (0) 20 7870 9399 Mail: sonal.ahuja@capita.co.uk www.capitasymonds.co.uk CapiCapita Symonds Ltd Regiregistered office: 71 Victoria Street, Westminster, London SW1H 0XA. Registered in England No. 2018542 Part Part of the Capita Group Plc. www.capita.co.uk Think of the environment. Print only if necessary. -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+sonal.ahuja=capita.co.uk@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+sonal.ahuja=capita.co.uk@list.jca.apc.or g] On Behalf Of Cornie Huizenga Sent: 14 July 2010 02:47 To: Paul Barter Cc: sustran-discuss Subject: [sustran] Re: Pelican Crossings!! Paul, I very much like the part in the Zebra definition: "drivers must give way to pedestrians who demonstrate intent to cross". I am afraid that this part has not been read by 99.9% of the drivers in Asia. Having lived now in Asia for almost 15 years it is always a surprise when I go back to Europe and see cars stop when I am on the side of the road near a zebra crossing. Here in Asia I would put more trust in a pedestrian traffic light than in a zebra crossing. Cornie On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Paul Barter wrote: > A few words on terminology. > > This is a useful debate on pedestrian facilities (and when or whether they > help). > > But 'pelican crossing' and 'puffin crossing' are not familiar terms in most > places outside Britain. [I for one didn't understand them until looking > them > up just now.] > > So here are some wikipedia definitions (which may be wrong?): > > "In the United Kingdom and parts of the > Commonwealth, > animal names are often used to distinguish several types of such crossings: > > - Zebra crossing : wide > longitudinal stripes on road, often with belisha > beacons; > pedestrians may cross at any time; drivers must give way to pedestrians > who > demonstrate intent to cross. > - Pelican crossing : > traffic > lights for pedestrians and > vehicles; button-operated. > - Puffin crossing : > pedestrian lights on near side of road; button-operated with curb-side > detector. > - Toucan crossing : for > bicycles as well as pedestrians." > > > As an Australian (in Singapore) I would use 'pedestrian activated traffic > lights' (or in casual conversation just 'pedestrian lights') for both > pelican and puffin crossings. The animal terms are obviously shorter. But > only useful if we all understand them. 'Zebra' seems common everywhere but > not the others. > > All the best > > Paul > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > -- Cornie Huizenga Joint Convener Partnership on Sustainable, Low Carbon Transport Mobile: +86 13901949332 cornie.huizenga@slocatpartnership.org www.slocat.net -------------------------------------------------------- To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss -------------------------------------------------------- If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. This email and any attachment to it are confidential. Unless you are the intended recipient, you may not use, copy or disclose either the message or any information contained in the message. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this email and notify the sender immediately. Any views or opinions expressed in this email are those of the sender only, unless otherwise stated. All copyright in any Capita material in this email is reserved. All emails, incoming and outgoing, may be recorded by Capita and monitored for legitimate business purposes. Capita exclude all liability for any loss or damage arising or resulting from the receipt, use or transmission of this email to the fullest extent permitted by law. -------------------------------------------------------- To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss -------------------------------------------------------- If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From kanthikannan at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 13:01:56 2010 From: kanthikannan at gmail.com (Kanthi Kannan) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 09:31:56 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: Pelican Crossings!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4c3d36cd.14528c0a.0563.7353@mx.google.com> Dear Cornie Greetings!! Sad to hear the story time and again but unfortunately true. Has something been done opposite to the ADB Office? Warm Regards Kanthi -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+kanthikannan=gmail.com@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+kanthikannan=gmail.com@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of Cornie Huizenga Sent: 14 July 2010 07:17 To: Paul Barter Cc: sustran-discuss Subject: [sustran] Re: Pelican Crossings!! Paul, I very much like the part in the Zebra definition: "drivers must give way to pedestrians who demonstrate intent to cross". I am afraid that this part has not been read by 99.9% of the drivers in Asia. Having lived now in Asia for almost 15 years it is always a surprise when I go back to Europe and see cars stop when I am on the side of the road near a zebra crossing. Here in Asia I would put more trust in a pedestrian traffic light than in a zebra crossing. Cornie On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Paul Barter wrote: > A few words on terminology. > > This is a useful debate on pedestrian facilities (and when or whether they > help). > > But 'pelican crossing' and 'puffin crossing' are not familiar terms in most > places outside Britain. [I for one didn't understand them until looking > them > up just now.] > > So here are some wikipedia definitions (which may be wrong?): > > "In the United Kingdom and parts of the > Commonwealth, > animal names are often used to distinguish several types of such crossings: > > - Zebra crossing : wide > longitudinal stripes on road, often with belisha > beacons; > pedestrians may cross at any time; drivers must give way to pedestrians > who > demonstrate intent to cross. > - Pelican crossing : > traffic > lights for pedestrians and > vehicles; button-operated. > - Puffin crossing : > pedestrian lights on near side of road; button-operated with curb-side > detector. > - Toucan crossing : for > bicycles as well as pedestrians." > > > As an Australian (in Singapore) I would use 'pedestrian activated traffic > lights' (or in casual conversation just 'pedestrian lights') for both > pelican and puffin crossings. The animal terms are obviously shorter. But > only useful if we all understand them. 'Zebra' seems common everywhere but > not the others. > > All the best > > Paul > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > -- Cornie Huizenga Joint Convener Partnership on Sustainable, Low Carbon Transport Mobile: +86 13901949332 cornie.huizenga@slocatpartnership.org www.slocat.net -------------------------------------------------------- To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss -------------------------------------------------------- If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From kanthikannan at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 13:03:42 2010 From: kanthikannan at gmail.com (Kanthi Kannan) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 09:33:42 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: Pelican Crossings!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4c3d3736.20d7720a.79a7.ffff9e14@mx.google.com> Dear Paul Greetings!! I think that we need to be clear as to what we mean by the phrase that we use and I think that clarity in terms is more required while discussing with Indian Officials Thanks Warm Regards Kanthi -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+kanthikannan=gmail.com@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+kanthikannan=gmail.com@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of Paul Barter Sent: 13 July 2010 18:15 To: sustran-discuss Subject: [sustran] Re: Pelican Crossings!! A few words on terminology. This is a useful debate on pedestrian facilities (and when or whether they help). But 'pelican crossing' and 'puffin crossing' are not familiar terms in most places outside Britain. [I for one didn't understand them until looking them up just now.] So here are some wikipedia definitions (which may be wrong?): "In the United Kingdom and parts of the Commonwealth, animal names are often used to distinguish several types of such crossings: - Zebra crossing : wide longitudinal stripes on road, often with belisha beacons; pedestrians may cross at any time; drivers must give way to pedestrians who demonstrate intent to cross. - Pelican crossing : traffic lights for pedestrians and vehicles; button-operated. - Puffin crossing : pedestrian lights on near side of road; button-operated with curb-side detector. - Toucan crossing : for bicycles as well as pedestrians." As an Australian (in Singapore) I would use 'pedestrian activated traffic lights' (or in casual conversation just 'pedestrian lights') for both pelican and puffin crossings. The animal terms are obviously shorter. But only useful if we all understand them. 'Zebra' seems common everywhere but not the others. All the best Paul -------------------------------------------------------- To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss -------------------------------------------------------- If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From gerd at tokiwa.ac.jp Wed Jul 14 16:40:48 2010 From: gerd at tokiwa.ac.jp (G. Kirchhoff) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 16:40:48 +0900 Subject: [sustran] Pelicans and puffings - thanks! Message-ID: <4C3D6A00.1060902@tokiwa.ac.jp> Please remove my name and address from the discussion list. I thought this list was international - and not English only. I am sorry to have no time for pelicans or puffings. Thanks for the time we had together. Friendly regards Prof. Dr.Kirchhoff -- Gerd Ferdinand Kirchhoff, Prof. Dr. jur. Professor of Victimology Tokiwa International Victimology Institute Tokiwa Graduate School of Victimology Secretary General, World Society of Victimology Inter University Center Dubrovnik,Croatia Executive Committee Member Tokiwa University, 1 430 1 Miwa, Mito shi, Ibaraki ken, 3108585 Japan TIVI +81 29 232 2796 (or 2865) Fax +81 29 232 2522 gerd@tokiwa.ac.jp From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Wed Jul 14 16:53:11 2010 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric britton) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 09:53:11 +0200 Subject: [sustran] "Tokiwa International Victimology" In-Reply-To: <4C3D6A00.1060902@tokiwa.ac.jp> References: <4C3D6A00.1060902@tokiwa.ac.jp> Message-ID: <000001cb2329$9d5ed420$d81c7c60$@britton@ecoplan.org> That's a joke, right? From operations at velomondial.net Wed Jul 14 17:09:49 2010 From: operations at velomondial.net (Velo Mondial) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 10:09:49 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Re: Pelicans and puffings - thanks! In-Reply-To: <4C3D6A00.1060902@tokiwa.ac.jp> References: <4C3D6A00.1060902@tokiwa.ac.jp> Message-ID: <412BE904919043B4B862655AB8173D10@WINGSYNLG30GF5> we are the victim here ..... Pascal J.W. van den Noort Executive Director Velo Mondial operations@velomondial.net +31206270675 landline +31627055688 mobile phone -------------------------------------------------- From: "G. Kirchhoff" Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 9:40 AM To: "'sustran-discuss'" Subject: [sustran] Pelicans and puffings - thanks! > Please remove my name and address from the discussion list. I thought > this list was international - and not English only. I am sorry to have > no time for pelicans or puffings. > Thanks for the time we had together. > Friendly regards > Prof. Dr.Kirchhoff > > -- > Gerd Ferdinand Kirchhoff, Prof. Dr. jur. > Professor of Victimology > Tokiwa International Victimology Institute > Tokiwa Graduate School of Victimology > > Secretary General, > World Society of Victimology > > Inter University Center Dubrovnik,Croatia > Executive Committee Member > > Tokiwa University, > 1 430 1 Miwa, Mito shi, > Ibaraki ken, 3108585 Japan > > TIVI +81 29 232 2796 (or 2865) > Fax +81 29 232 2522 > gerd@tokiwa.ac.jp > > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > From adhiraj.joglekar at googlemail.com Wed Jul 14 17:19:19 2010 From: adhiraj.joglekar at googlemail.com (Dr Adhiraj Joglekar) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 09:19:19 +0100 Subject: [sustran] Re: Pelican Crossings!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Cornie, I do not think its to do with drivers per se. Its to do with the robust training drivers in some EU countries need to take that creates safe habits. The same drivers may well be far more anti-social in other aspects of their lives. People in Asia are generally law abiding as well but the Governments have failed them. For instance, India has a ridiculous rudiment of a document called Motor Vehicles Act which is not even 10% as detailed as the UK highway code. Interestingly, the rules of the road in India are exactly the same as in UK. If I as an individual could create 17 odd videos ( www.driving-india.blogspot.com) to educate drivers, why has 60 years of Indian Government failed to do something similar or better? Last year I even got permission to translate the UK highway code to Indian languages (work pending as unfortunately I have a full time job elsewhere) and all I did was write an e-mail to the Crown Copyright. Indian Government can move the world to get the nuclear deal and spends god knows how much money on an army base in the Himalayan ranges - but sadly, they are yet to realise the biggest terrorist is the person behind the streering of a motor vehicle (going by fatalities per year). Instead we have created corrupt systems which seem rather sustainable as it is possible even today to get a license across the country without even sitting the 'drive in a straight line' test. We spend million on enginerring but the key lies in a different set of E's - education and then another one called enforcement. Cheers Adhiraj On 14 July 2010 02:47, Cornie Huizenga < cornie.huizenga@slocatpartnership.org> wrote: > Paul, > > I very much like the part in the Zebra definition: "drivers must give way > to > pedestrians who > demonstrate intent to cross". I am afraid that this part has not been > read by 99.9% of the drivers in Asia. > > Having lived now in Asia for almost 15 years it is always a surprise when I > go back to Europe and see cars stop when I am on the side of the road near > a > zebra crossing. > > Here in Asia I would put more trust in a pedestrian traffic light than in a > zebra crossing. > > Cornie > > On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Paul Barter > wrote: > > > A few words on terminology. > > > > This is a useful debate on pedestrian facilities (and when or whether > they > > help). > > > > But 'pelican crossing' and 'puffin crossing' are not familiar terms in > most > > places outside Britain. [I for one didn't understand them until looking > > them > > up just now.] > > > > So here are some wikipedia definitions (which may be wrong?): > > > > "In the United Kingdom and parts of the > > Commonwealth, > > animal names are often used to distinguish several types of such > crossings: > > > > - Zebra crossing : wide > > longitudinal stripes on road, often with belisha > > beacons; > > pedestrians may cross at any time; drivers must give way to pedestrians > > who > > demonstrate intent to cross. > > - Pelican crossing : > > traffic > > lights for pedestrians > and > > vehicles; button-operated. > > - Puffin crossing : > > pedestrian lights on near side of road; button-operated with curb-side > > detector. > > - Toucan crossing : for > > bicycles as well as > pedestrians." > > > > > > As an Australian (in Singapore) I would use 'pedestrian activated traffic > > lights' (or in casual conversation just 'pedestrian lights') for both > > pelican and puffin crossings. The animal terms are obviously shorter. But > > only useful if we all understand them. 'Zebra' seems common everywhere > but > > not the others. > > > > All the best > > > > Paul > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > > > ================================================================ > > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > > (the 'Global South'). > > > > > > -- > Cornie Huizenga > Joint Convener > Partnership on Sustainable, Low Carbon Transport > Mobile: +86 13901949332 > cornie.huizenga@slocatpartnership.org > www.slocat.net > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > From edelman at greenidea.eu Wed Jul 14 17:31:14 2010 From: edelman at greenidea.eu (Todd Edelman) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 10:31:14 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Re: "Tokiwa International Victimology" In-Reply-To: <000001cb2329$9d5ed420$d81c7c60$@britton@ecoplan.org> References: <4C3D6A00.1060902@tokiwa.ac.jp> <000001cb2329$9d5ed420$d81c7c60$@britton@ecoplan.org> Message-ID: <4C3D75D2.1010203@greenidea.eu> http://www.tokiwa.ac.jp/~tivi/english/about/index.html - T On 14/07/10 09:53, eric britton wrote: > That's a joke, right? > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). > > -- Todd Edelman Green Idea Factory, a member of the OPENbike team Mobile: ++49(0)162 814 4081 Immobile: ++49(0)30 7554 0001 edelman@greenidea.eu www.greenidea.eu todd@openbike.se www.openbike.se Skype: toddedelman Urbanstr. 45 10967 Berlin Germany *** OPENbike - Share the Perfect Fit! From peebeebarter at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 20:55:11 2010 From: peebeebarter at gmail.com (Paul Barter) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 19:55:11 +0800 Subject: [sustran] DIGEST option back on for sustran-discuss Message-ID: Dear sustran-discuss members I have had a little trouble with the digest option for this list in recent months. As a result the digest option was switched off for some time. I think the problem is now resolved. Some of you may wish to return to getting the list in digest mode if that is what you prefer. This means getting messages in batches rather than individually. To make the switch go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss, go right to the bottom of the page and enter your email address (the one that is subscribed to the list) in order to enter the page for editing your settings. Apologies for the annoyance. Paul Barter From ianenvironmental at googlemail.com Thu Jul 15 01:12:50 2010 From: ianenvironmental at googlemail.com (Ian Perry) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 17:12:50 +0100 Subject: [sustran] Re: Pelicans and puffings - thanks! In-Reply-To: <412BE904919043B4B862655AB8173D10@WINGSYNLG30GF5> References: <4C3D6A00.1060902@tokiwa.ac.jp> <412BE904919043B4B862655AB8173D10@WINGSYNLG30GF5> Message-ID: How do the English English names, Pelican Crossing, Puffin Crossing and Chicken Crossing, and are known to millions of people in the UK and India, cause so much upset on this forum? The original question referred to the possibility of installing pelican crossings (pedestrian crossings on streets, controlled by traffic lights) in Hyderabad, India. I live in a wonderful UK city where there are traffic lights, many with pedestrian crossing facilities on almost every street. I watch people live their lives sat stationary in cars waiting for it to be their turn to drive their car past the green light as fast as possible. Only sometimes does this result in an "accident". Meanwhile, pedestrians don't want to walk to the nearest crossing, but cross where they are, taking the shortest route - even if this means climbing over guardrails. If pedestrians do use the crossings with traffic lights, often they cross before the green light is shown to them. So England and the rest of the UK has spent millions of pounds on pedestrian lights that people don't use! Even Boris Johnson, the Mayor of London, has realised the folly of having so many traffic lights! In the Netherlands and UK, we are spending money to remove pedestrian crossings and other sets of traffic lights - so is it so wrong of me to suggest denying pedestrian crossings with traffic lights to those in countries that have not realised for themselves the perils of such expensive technological solutions to traffic? Traffic lights treat the symptoms of the chaos on our streets, and not the causes. The causes include the inappropriate vehicles we are using - and the expectation that people should use them to access services and facilities. In most parts of the world people do mostly obey traffic lights, though the colour blind, tired and distracted sometimes fail to stop, hitting those who assumed that they could use the junction safely due to a green light in their direction. This is not the case in all places, including Italy and Spain! Motorists in these countries frequently ignore traffic lights - rather like Parisian motorists ignore the existence of pedestrians on marked pedestrian crossings - at least that was my perception. What India has (minus the rubbish/garbage/trash) is what many in Europe want our streets to be like. Would these roadsides be cleaner if it was not for the traffic making the space uncomfortable for people? Rather than make Hyderabad resemble LA - just as peak oil arrives, and most of the word realise that LA is a mistake... better solutions are required. >From what I've seen of Hyderabad on YouTube... Would narrowing the carriageways and removing larger vehicles be possible? Larger vehicles include larger private vehicles, goods vehicles and buses... Buses kill too many people, especially in India! Trams are much safer, as their movement is predictable... and trams can carry goods. Smaller goods vehicles or restricting goods vehicles to certain times could be an option - and freight consolidation could work in India? Traffic lights and restricting pedestrians to specified crossings are not the answer - pedestrians have the right to the whole street - and this means crossing where it is convenient for them - otherwise they'll get into a car instead... "Jay" walking is a good activity - though I know this will upset some people! Best wishes to all Ian Perry From zvi.leve at gmail.com Thu Jul 15 01:35:01 2010 From: zvi.leve at gmail.com (Zvi Leve) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 12:35:01 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: Pelicans and puffings - thanks! In-Reply-To: References: <4C3D6A00.1060902@tokiwa.ac.jp> <412BE904919043B4B862655AB8173D10@WINGSYNLG30GF5> Message-ID: When considering the traffic and pedestrian situation in India and many other rapidly motorizing places, it is worth recalling the little known history of how similar events played out in North America almost a century ago. There is an excellent book by Peter Norton called 'Fighting Traffic: The Dawn of the Motor Age in the American City' which documents this struggle quite extensively. Ironically, it was the push for pedestrian safety which eventually led to a shift in attitudes about 'uncontrolled' pedestrian circulation, and to paved the way to the acceptance that 'roads are for cars'. Will history repeat itself? Zvi On 14 July 2010 12:12, Ian Perry wrote: > How do the English English names, Pelican Crossing, Puffin Crossing and > Chicken Crossing, and are known to millions of people in the UK and India, > cause so much upset on this forum? > > The original question referred to the possibility of installing pelican > crossings (pedestrian crossings on streets, controlled by traffic lights) > in > Hyderabad, India. > > I live in a wonderful UK city where there are traffic lights, many with > pedestrian crossing facilities on almost every street. I watch people live > their lives sat stationary in cars waiting for it to be their turn to drive > their car past the green light as fast as possible. Only sometimes does > this result in an "accident". > > Meanwhile, pedestrians don't want to walk to the nearest crossing, but > cross > where they are, taking the shortest route - even if this means climbing > over > guardrails. If pedestrians do use the crossings with traffic lights, often > they cross before the green light is shown to them. So England and the > rest > of the UK has spent millions of pounds on pedestrian lights that people > don't use! Even Boris Johnson, the Mayor of London, has realised > the folly of having so many traffic lights! > > In the Netherlands and UK, we are spending money to remove pedestrian > crossings and other sets of traffic lights - so is it so wrong of me to > suggest denying pedestrian crossings with traffic lights to those in > countries that have not realised for themselves the perils of such > expensive > technological solutions to traffic? > > Traffic lights treat the symptoms of the chaos on our streets, and not the > causes. The causes include the inappropriate vehicles we are using - and > the expectation that people should use them to access services and > facilities. > > In most parts of the world people do mostly obey traffic lights, though the > colour blind, tired and distracted sometimes fail to stop, hitting those > who > assumed that they could use the junction safely due to a green light in > their direction. This is not the case in all places, including Italy and > Spain! Motorists in these countries frequently ignore traffic lights - > rather like Parisian motorists ignore the existence of pedestrians on > marked > pedestrian crossings - at least that was my perception. > > What India has (minus the rubbish/garbage/trash) is what many in Europe > want > our streets to be like. Would these roadsides be cleaner if it was not for > the traffic making the space uncomfortable for people? > > Rather than make Hyderabad resemble LA - just as peak oil arrives, and most > of the word realise that LA is a mistake... better solutions are required. > > > >From what I've seen of Hyderabad on YouTube... Would narrowing the > carriageways and removing larger vehicles be possible? Larger vehicles > include larger private vehicles, goods vehicles and buses... Buses kill > too > many people, especially in India! Trams are much safer, as their movement > is predictable... and trams can carry goods. Smaller goods vehicles or > restricting goods vehicles to certain times could be an option - and > freight > consolidation could work in India? > > Traffic lights and restricting pedestrians to specified crossings are not > the answer - pedestrians have the right to the whole street - and this > means > crossing where it is convenient for them - otherwise they'll get into a car > instead... > > "Jay" walking is a good activity - though I know this will upset some > people! > > > > Best wishes to all > > Ian Perry > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > From townsend at alcor.concordia.ca Thu Jul 15 01:44:50 2010 From: townsend at alcor.concordia.ca (Craig Townsend) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 16:44:50 -0000 Subject: [sustran] Re: Pelicans and puffings - thanks! In-Reply-To: References: <4C3D6A00.1060902@tokiwa.ac.jp> <412BE904919043B4B862655AB8173D10@WINGSYNLG30GF5> Message-ID: <2ab23c12d616abb12578cdce52945779.squirrel@webmail.concordia.ca> Ian, Kanthi and others, I wasn't so much offended as amused by my confusion regarding the pelicans and the puffins. Following up on Ian's comment, I live in a Canadian city (Montreal) where there is widespread jay-walking, drivers almost never stop at zebra crossings (I live next to one and in three years I've witnessed perhaps 10 cars stopping and the majority of those had US license plates so weren't locals), and there is a fair amount of "running red" traffic lights, although paradoxically there is a prohibition on right turns on red and people obey the latter. I used to live in a Canadian city (Vancouver) where pedestrians wait for lights even when there are no cars, motorists will stop for a zebra crossing even if there is someone in the vicinity and it's not clear whether or not they will use it, and drivers are very attentive to the traffic signals. However, there are as far as I know no appreciable differences in levels of traffic fatalities or accidents when one factors in the quantity of driving (more in Vancouver, less in Montreal). Also opinion as to which is better is divided, even among the transport experts. This would be a good subject for a study as to why. I would guess that it's because the driver training and licensing are similar, as are the laws concerning the results of accidents. If you injure or kill someone and were acting illegally, the punishment can be severe and there is no consideration of one's social standing. In a recent high profile case, the former Attorney-General of the Province of Ontario had an altercation with a cyclist and in the events that followed the cyclist who was extremely drunk and belligerent was killed. The former high official had to face charges which were eventually dropped only because evidence apparently exonerated him of wrong-doing. The police did not give him any special treatment and in the end his career has been damaged by the incident. He also apparently feels very badly about the whole thing and apologized to members of the family of the cyclist. My observation after living in Bangkok for a number of years was that traffic laws are applied as a money making scheme for a large contingent of poorly paid traffic police required to provide money to their superiors, and that in the worst case people who have injured someone make some relatively small payments to the victim who is invariably poor. Attempts by the wealthy (such as the family of an American killed by a Bangkok bus in the 1990s) to follow legal proceedings for redress are invariably pointless. Furthermore, motorists who may have killed someone while doing nothing wrong will also be required to admit guilt and make the payment. It may sound ethnocentric, but I do feel that a basic problem is the lack of universal human and legal rights and the rule of law in many developing countries. All this is to say that pelicans and puffins may have limited utility in the absence of other basics. But we do always have to start somewhere. A former traffic official and engineer from Taipei told me some years ago that things began to turn around there when they removed pedestrian overpasses (they appealed in the media to notions of respect for elders who would have to climb those monstrosities) at the same time as they followed traffic police with TV cameras to ensure that they were doing their jobs in enforcing laws without bribes. Apologies for my long posting. Craig > How do the English English names, Pelican Crossing, Puffin Crossing and > Chicken Crossing, and are known to millions of people in the UK and India, > cause so much upset on this forum? > > The original question referred to the possibility of installing pelican > crossings (pedestrian crossings on streets, controlled by traffic lights) > in > Hyderabad, India. > > I live in a wonderful UK city where there are traffic lights, many with > pedestrian crossing facilities on almost every street. I watch people > live > their lives sat stationary in cars waiting for it to be their turn to > drive > their car past the green light as fast as possible. Only sometimes does > this result in an "accident". > > Meanwhile, pedestrians don't want to walk to the nearest crossing, but > cross > where they are, taking the shortest route - even if this means climbing > over > guardrails. If pedestrians do use the crossings with traffic lights, > often > they cross before the green light is shown to them. So England and the > rest > of the UK has spent millions of pounds on pedestrian lights that people > don't use! Even Boris Johnson, the Mayor of London, has realised > the folly of having so many traffic lights! > > In the Netherlands and UK, we are spending money to remove pedestrian > crossings and other sets of traffic lights - so is it so wrong of me to > suggest denying pedestrian crossings with traffic lights to those in > countries that have not realised for themselves the perils of such > expensive > technological solutions to traffic? > > Traffic lights treat the symptoms of the chaos on our streets, and not the > causes. The causes include the inappropriate vehicles we are using - and > the expectation that people should use them to access services and > facilities. > > In most parts of the world people do mostly obey traffic lights, though > the > colour blind, tired and distracted sometimes fail to stop, hitting those > who > assumed that they could use the junction safely due to a green light in > their direction. This is not the case in all places, including Italy and > Spain! Motorists in these countries frequently ignore traffic lights - > rather like Parisian motorists ignore the existence of pedestrians on > marked > pedestrian crossings - at least that was my perception. > > What India has (minus the rubbish/garbage/trash) is what many in Europe > want > our streets to be like. Would these roadsides be cleaner if it was not > for > the traffic making the space uncomfortable for people? > > Rather than make Hyderabad resemble LA - just as peak oil arrives, and > most > of the word realise that LA is a mistake... better solutions are > required. > > >>From what I've seen of Hyderabad on YouTube... Would narrowing the > carriageways and removing larger vehicles be possible? Larger vehicles > include larger private vehicles, goods vehicles and buses... Buses kill > too > many people, especially in India! Trams are much safer, as their movement > is predictable... and trams can carry goods. Smaller goods vehicles or > restricting goods vehicles to certain times could be an option - and > freight > consolidation could work in India? > > Traffic lights and restricting pedestrians to specified crossings are not > the answer - pedestrians have the right to the whole street - and this > means > crossing where it is convenient for them - otherwise they'll get into a > car > instead... > > "Jay" walking is a good activity - though I know this will upset some > people! > > > > Best wishes to all > > Ian Perry > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > ------------------------------------------------- Craig Townsend, Ph.D. Associate Professor Department of Geography, Planning and Environment Concordia University Tel 514-848-2424 ext. 5191 E-mail townsend@alcor.concordia.ca Fax 514-848-2032 1455 De Maisonneuve Blvd. West, H 1255-27 Montreal, Quebec Canada H3G 1M8 gpe.concordia.ca www.concordia.ca From townsend at alcor.concordia.ca Thu Jul 15 03:19:22 2010 From: townsend at alcor.concordia.ca (Craig Townsend) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 14:19:22 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: Pelicans and puffings - thanks! In-Reply-To: References: <4C3D6A00.1060902@tokiwa.ac.jp> <412BE904919043B4B862655AB8173D10@WINGSYNLG30GF5> Message-ID: <201007141819.o6EIJtGK004385@dillinger.concordia.ca> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20100714/2b2a5a08/attachment-0001.html From Mohsin.Sarker at roads.vic.gov.au Thu Jul 15 07:39:41 2010 From: Mohsin.Sarker at roads.vic.gov.au (Mohsin.Sarker at roads.vic.gov.au) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 08:39:41 +1000 Subject: [sustran] Re: Pelicans, puffings and Gap Actuated Ped Xing! In-Reply-To: <2ab23c12d616abb12578cdce52945779.squirrel@webmail.concordia.ca> References: <4C3D6A00.1060902@tokiwa.ac.jp> <412BE904919043B4B862655AB8173D10@WINGSYNLG30GF5> <2ab23c12d616abb12578cdce52945779.squirrel@webmail.concordia.ca> Message-ID: Hello, When I was a masters course student in Utsunomiya University, Japan, I undertook a research work on "Gap Actuated Pedestrian Crossing" using a micro-simulation model (NETSIM / CORSIM). I presented this paper in TRB Annual meeting in Washington DC in 1999 available at http://trb.metapress.com/content/v616m73344u47217/. This research work addresses some of the issues at the pedestrian crossing indicated in the previous discussion. Abstract of the paper: A main concern with pedestrian crossings is the time that pedestrians are expected to wait before a traffic light changes. Pushbutton signal systems are mainly set to accommodate vehicular flow efficiency, and the interval for pedestrians to cross the street remains the same even if no vehicles are on the road or if there is a long gap between oncoming vehicles. Pedestrians often cross the road against the go-ahead pedestrian signal when they perceive an acceptable vehicular gap, sometimes even after pressing the pushbutton. Vehicles must stop even if no pedestrian is waiting to cross the street. This study examined a gap-actuated pushbutton signal via a traffic simulation model. The results show a substantial decrease in pedestrian waiting time with negligible effects on vehicular flow. If anyone interested to get a copy of full paper, please don't hesitate to send me an email. Kind Regards, Dr Mohsin Sarker Snr Traffic & Transport Engineer Traffic Operations - Central VicRoads Metropolitan North West Region 499 Ballarat Road, Sunshine 3030 T (03) 9313 1154 F (03) 9313 1175 E mohsin.sarker@roads.vic.gov.au W www.vicroads.vic.gov.au From: "Craig Townsend" To: "Ian Perry" Cc: sustran-discuss Date: 15/07/2010 02:45 AM Subject: [sustran] Re: Pelicans and puffings - thanks! Sent by: sustran-discuss-bounces+mohsin.sarker=roads.vic.gov.au@list.jca.apc.org Ext: Business Area: Fax: Internet: File Name: File Description: This email is from an external source. If it is a Business Record remember to file it by selecting 'File as Business Record' from the EMS menu option -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ian, Kanthi and others, I wasn't so much offended as amused by my confusion regarding the pelicans and the puffins. Following up on Ian's comment, I live in a Canadian city (Montreal) where there is widespread jay-walking, drivers almost never stop at zebra crossings (I live next to one and in three years I've witnessed perhaps 10 cars stopping and the majority of those had US license plates so weren't locals), and there is a fair amount of "running red" traffic lights, although paradoxically there is a prohibition on right turns on red and people obey the latter. I used to live in a Canadian city (Vancouver) where pedestrians wait for lights even when there are no cars, motorists will stop for a zebra crossing even if there is someone in the vicinity and it's not clear whether or not they will use it, and drivers are very attentive to the traffic signals. However, there are as far as I know no appreciable differences in levels of traffic fatalities or accidents when one factors in the quantity of driving (more in Vancouver, less in Montreal). Also opinion as to which is better is divided, even among the transport experts. This would be a good subject for a study as to why. I would guess that it's because the driver training and licensing are similar, as are the laws concerning the results of accidents. If you injure or kill someone and were acting illegally, the punishment can be severe and there is no consideration of one's social standing. In a recent high profile case, the former Attorney-General of the Province of Ontario had an altercation with a cyclist and in the events that followed the cyclist who was extremely drunk and belligerent was killed. The former high official had to face charges which were eventually dropped only because evidence apparently exonerated him of wrong-doing. The police did not give him any special treatment and in the end his career has been damaged by the incident. He also apparently feels very badly about the whole thing and apologized to members of the family of the cyclist. My observation after living in Bangkok for a number of years was that traffic laws are applied as a money making scheme for a large contingent of poorly paid traffic police required to provide money to their superiors, and that in the worst case people who have injured someone make some relatively small payments to the victim who is invariably poor. Attempts by the wealthy (such as the family of an American killed by a Bangkok bus in the 1990s) to follow legal proceedings for redress are invariably pointless. Furthermore, motorists who may have killed someone while doing nothing wrong will also be required to admit guilt and make the payment. It may sound ethnocentric, but I do feel that a basic problem is the lack of universal human and legal rights and the rule of law in many developing countries. All this is to say that pelicans and puffins may have limited utility in the absence of other basics. But we do always have to start somewhere. A former traffic official and engineer from Taipei told me some years ago that things began to turn around there when they removed pedestrian overpasses (they appealed in the media to notions of respect for elders who would have to climb those monstrosities) at the same time as they followed traffic police with TV cameras to ensure that they were doing their jobs in enforcing laws without bribes. Apologies for my long posting. Craig > How do the English English names, Pelican Crossing, Puffin Crossing and > Chicken Crossing, and are known to millions of people in the UK and India, > cause so much upset on this forum? > > The original question referred to the possibility of installing pelican > crossings (pedestrian crossings on streets, controlled by traffic lights) > in > Hyderabad, India. > > I live in a wonderful UK city where there are traffic lights, many with > pedestrian crossing facilities on almost every street. I watch people > live > their lives sat stationary in cars waiting for it to be their turn to > drive > their car past the green light as fast as possible. Only sometimes does > this result in an "accident". > > Meanwhile, pedestrians don't want to walk to the nearest crossing, but > cross > where they are, taking the shortest route - even if this means climbing > over > guardrails. If pedestrians do use the crossings with traffic lights, > often > they cross before the green light is shown to them. So England and the > rest > of the UK has spent millions of pounds on pedestrian lights that people > don't use! Even Boris Johnson, the Mayor of London, has realised > the folly of having so many traffic lights! > > In the Netherlands and UK, we are spending money to remove pedestrian > crossings and other sets of traffic lights - so is it so wrong of me to > suggest denying pedestrian crossings with traffic lights to those in > countries that have not realised for themselves the perils of such > expensive > technological solutions to traffic? > > Traffic lights treat the symptoms of the chaos on our streets, and not the > causes. The causes include the inappropriate vehicles we are using - and > the expectation that people should use them to access services and > facilities. > > In most parts of the world people do mostly obey traffic lights, though > the > colour blind, tired and distracted sometimes fail to stop, hitting those > who > assumed that they could use the junction safely due to a green light in > their direction. This is not the case in all places, including Italy and > Spain! Motorists in these countries frequently ignore traffic lights - > rather like Parisian motorists ignore the existence of pedestrians on > marked > pedestrian crossings - at least that was my perception. > > What India has (minus the rubbish/garbage/trash) is what many in Europe > want > our streets to be like. Would these roadsides be cleaner if it was not > for > the traffic making the space uncomfortable for people? > > Rather than make Hyderabad resemble LA - just as peak oil arrives, and > most > of the word realise that LA is a mistake... better solutions are > required. > > >>From what I've seen of Hyderabad on YouTube... Would narrowing the > carriageways and removing larger vehicles be possible? Larger vehicles > include larger private vehicles, goods vehicles and buses... Buses kill > too > many people, especially in India! Trams are much safer, as their movement > is predictable... and trams can carry goods. Smaller goods vehicles or > restricting goods vehicles to certain times could be an option - and > freight > consolidation could work in India? > > Traffic lights and restricting pedestrians to specified crossings are not > the answer - pedestrians have the right to the whole street - and this > means > crossing where it is convenient for them - otherwise they'll get into a > car > instead... > > "Jay" walking is a good activity - though I know this will upset some > people! > > > > Best wishes to all > > Ian Perry > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > ------------------------------------------------- Craig Townsend, Ph.D. Associate Professor Department of Geography, Planning and Environment Concordia University Tel 514-848-2424 ext. 5191 E-mail townsend@alcor.concordia.ca Fax 514-848-2032 1455 De Maisonneuve Blvd. West, H 1255-27 Montreal, Quebec Canada H3G 1M8 gpe.concordia.ca www.concordia.ca -------------------------------------------------------- To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss -------------------------------------------------------- If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). DISCLAIMER The following conditions apply to this communication and any attachments: VicRoads reserves all of its copyright; the information is intended for the addressees only and may be confidential and/or privileged - it must not be passed on by any other recipients; any expressed opinions are those of the sender and not necessarily VicRoads; VicRoads accepts no liability for any consequences arising from the recipient's use of this means of communication and/or the information contained in and/or attached to this communication. If this communication has been received in error, please contact the person who sent this communication and delete all copies. From rthom at wri.org Thu Jul 15 11:20:52 2010 From: rthom at wri.org (Rhys Thom) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 22:20:52 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: Pelican Crossings!! In-Reply-To: <4c3d3664.17018e0a.7b20.ffff8291@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I just want to let everyone know that this interesting and lively discussion has inspired one of TheCityFix.com bloggers to write this very informative post - http://thecityfix.com/zebras-puffins-pelicans-or-hawks-for-pedestrians/ Best, Rhys Thom -- RHYS THOM INFORMATION, INNOVATION & DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR EMBARQ - THE WRI CENTER FOR SUSTAINABLE TRANSPORT WORLD RESOURCES INSTITUTE mail: 10 G STREET NE, #800 WASHINGTON, DC 20002 phone: (202) 729-7716 | fax: (202) 729-7775 email: RTHOM@WRI.ORG | web: EMBARQ.ORG blog: THECITYFIX.COM | calendar: TUNGLE.ME/RHYS On 7/14/10 12:00 AM, "Kanthi Kannan" wrote: > Dear Sonal > > Greetings!! > > Thanks for the info. Can you send me the contact details of the companies > that make Pelican Crossings? > > Thanks > > Regards > > Kanthi > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sustran-discuss-bounces+kanthikannan=gmail.com@list.jca.apc.org > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+kanthikannan=gmail.com@list.jca.apc.org] On > Behalf Of Ahuja, Sonal (Capita Symonds) > Sent: 14 July 2010 07:23 > To: Cornie Huizenga; Paul Barter > Cc: sustran-discuss > Subject: [sustran] Re: Pelican Crossings!! > > We have done some extensive tests with Pelican crossing with ped > Detection in Delhi and are ongoing setup of a few crossing in Delhi. We > did not propose puffin with on crossing detectors due to stop line > enforcement issues and went for traditional pelicans. So far the results > have been very promising. One has to be careful on the infrastructure is > designed. In Delhi the roads are quite wide so intergreens can be large. > > > So far these mid block crossings seem to operate without any probelms > > If you need more information please do not hesitate to ask. > > with warm regards > > Sonal Ahuja > > Director International Development, > Technology Transport and Infrastructure > > CAPITA SYMONDS > 86 Fetter Lane, London EC4A 1EN > United Kingdom > > Tel: +44 (0) 77 88 666 523 > Fax: +44 (0) 20 7870 9399 > Mail: sonal.ahuja@capita.co.uk > www.capitasymonds.co.uk > CapiCapita Symonds Ltd > Regiregistered office: 71 Victoria Street, Westminster, London SW1H 0XA. > Registered in England No. 2018542 > Part Part of the Capita Group Plc. www.capita.co.uk > > Think of the environment. Print only if necessary. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sustran-discuss-bounces+sonal.ahuja=capita.co.uk@list.jca.apc.org > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+sonal.ahuja=capita.co.uk@list.jca.apc.or > g] On Behalf Of Cornie Huizenga > Sent: 14 July 2010 02:47 > To: Paul Barter > Cc: sustran-discuss > Subject: [sustran] Re: Pelican Crossings!! > > Paul, > > I very much like the part in the Zebra definition: "drivers must give > way to > pedestrians who > demonstrate intent to cross". I am afraid that this part has not been > read by 99.9% of the drivers in Asia. > > Having lived now in Asia for almost 15 years it is always a surprise > when I > go back to Europe and see cars stop when I am on the side of the road > near a > zebra crossing. > > Here in Asia I would put more trust in a pedestrian traffic light than > in a > zebra crossing. > > Cornie > > On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Paul Barter > wrote: > >> A few words on terminology. >> >> This is a useful debate on pedestrian facilities (and when or whether > they >> help). >> >> But 'pelican crossing' and 'puffin crossing' are not familiar terms in > most >> places outside Britain. [I for one didn't understand them until > looking >> them >> up just now.] >> >> So here are some wikipedia definitions (which may be wrong?): >> >> "In the United Kingdom and parts of the >> Commonwealth, >> animal names are often used to distinguish several types of such > crossings: >> >> - Zebra crossing : wide >> longitudinal stripes on road, often with belisha >> beacons; >> pedestrians may cross at any time; drivers must give way to > pedestrians >> who >> demonstrate intent to cross. >> - Pelican crossing : >> traffic >> lights for pedestrians > and >> vehicles; button-operated. >> - Puffin crossing : >> pedestrian lights on near side of road; button-operated with > curb-side >> detector. >> - Toucan crossing : > for >> bicycles as well as > pedestrians." >> >> >> As an Australian (in Singapore) I would use 'pedestrian activated > traffic >> lights' (or in casual conversation just 'pedestrian lights') for both >> pelican and puffin crossings. The animal terms are obviously shorter. > But >> only useful if we all understand them. 'Zebra' seems common everywhere > but >> not the others. >> >> All the best >> >> Paul >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to >> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the > real >> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >> >> ================================================================ >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing > countries >> (the 'Global South'). >> > > From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Thu Jul 15 15:48:10 2010 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric britton) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 08:48:10 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Pelican Crossings!! Message-ID: <009e01cb23e9$b2718f90$1754aeb0$@britton@ecoplan.org> This as we all are well aware is an excellent and fruitful conversation -- and I have been thinking about how we might via World Streets bring it to the attention of a wider audience, both for its own contributions and as a good example of how such dialogues can help build knowledge and consensus on important topics. Back in the 19th century scientists and reformers wrote letters to each other. While we today in situations like this write via the net wide open letters, which from time to time do not simply end up in a closed drawer of someone's desk. That may be progress. I thought that the note this morning from Rhys Thom pointing us to the article on CityFix was an interesting part of this collegial process. I'll keep you informed when we may have something in W/S to add to this bestiary. Eric Britton From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Thu Jul 15 16:49:04 2010 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric britton) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 09:49:04 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Pelican Crossings!! In-Reply-To: <8E74B43EBE874F32AEB2529B999C53BA@WINGSYNLG30GF5> References: <009e01cb23e9$b2718f90$1754aeb0$@britton@ecoplan.org> <8E74B43EBE874F32AEB2529B999C53BA@WINGSYNLG30GF5> Message-ID: <01f901cb23f2$363e2010$a2ba6030$@britton@ecoplan.org> Pascal J. W. van den Noort just wrote a note asking me to clarify what I meant by: " I'll keep you informed when we may have something in W/S to add to this bestiary." Sorry for being so unclear. I meant: . W/S = World Streets - the world's sustainable transportation daily at www.WorldStreets.org . Bestiary - or Bestiarum vocabulum, is a compendium of beasts. One good source adds: " Bestiaries were made popular in the Middle Ages in illustrated volumes that described various animals, birds and even rocks. The natural history and illustration of each beast was usually accompanied by a moral lesson. This reflected the belief that the world itself was the Word of God, and that every living thing had its own special meaning. For example, the pelican, which was believed to tear open its breast to bring its young to life with its own blood, was a living representation of Jesus. The bestiary, then, is also a reference to the symbolic language of animals in Western Christian art and literature." (Wikipedia) In our current context the Pelican image is, to my mind, a bit troubling. But we can live with it. ;-) Eric Britton From operations at velomondial.net Thu Jul 15 18:43:50 2010 From: operations at velomondial.net (Velo Mondial) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 11:43:50 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Re: Pelican Crossings!! In-Reply-To: <01f901cb23f2$363e2010$a2ba6030$@britton@ecoplan.org> References: <009e01cb23e9$b2718f90$1754aeb0$@britton@ecoplan.org> <8E74B43EBE874F32AEB2529B999C53BA@WINGSYNLG30GF5> <01f901cb23f2$363e2010$a2ba6030$@britton@ecoplan.org> Message-ID: what a zoo! Pascal J.W. van den Noort Executive Director Velo Mondial operations@velomondial.net +31206270675 landline +31627055688 mobile phone From: eric britton Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:49 AM To: Sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org Cc: 'Velo Mondial' Subject: Pelican Crossings!! Pascal J. W. van den Noort just wrote a note asking me to clarify what I meant by: " I'll keep you informed when we may have something in W/S to add to this bestiary." Sorry for being so unclear. I meant: ? W/S = World Streets - the world's sustainable transportation daily at www.WorldStreets.org ? Bestiary - or Bestiarum vocabulum, is a compendium of beasts. One good source adds: " Bestiaries were made popular in the Middle Ages in illustrated volumes that described various animals, birds and even rocks. The natural history and illustration of each beast was usually accompanied by a moral lesson. This reflected the belief that the world itself was the Word of God, and that every living thing had its own special meaning. For example, the pelican, which was believed to tear open its breast to bring its young to life with its own blood, was a living representation of Jesus. The bestiary, then, is also a reference to the symbolic language of animals in Western Christian art and literature." (Wikipedia) In our current context the Pelican image is, to my mind, a bit troubling. But we can live with it. ;-) Eric Britton From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Thu Jul 15 20:50:12 2010 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric britton) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 13:50:12 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Letter from Nepal: When roads are claiming people's lives Message-ID: <034c01cb2413$e42a7f40$ac7f7dc0$@britton@ecoplan.org> Letter from Nepal: When roads are claiming people's lives The Editor | 13 July 2010 at 13:31 | Categories: New Mobility | URL: http://wp.me/psKUY-Ly The number of cars in Kathmandu Valley has increased tenfold over the last 15 years, largely because banks have had few other viable investment opportunities amid deteriorating security conditions. According to the Department of Transport Management, there are 444,700 registered vehicles in Bagmati zone, most in the Kathmandu Valley. Kathmandu Valley claims to have one [...] Read more of this post Add a comment to this post From kanthikannan at gmail.com Fri Jul 16 15:05:46 2010 From: kanthikannan at gmail.com (Kanthi Kannan) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 11:35:46 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: Pelicans, puffings and Gap Actuated Ped Xing! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4c3ff6d7.4814e70a.2b03.3aff@mx.google.com> Dear Doctor Saab and all Greetings!! Thanks for the abstract from your paper. We really need to think clearly as to what will benefit the pedestrian the most and of course involve all the stakeholders. In India the politicians too have a large stake in the pie. Let's hope that we are able to see some change in the next 6 months in terms of placing policemen to man the crossings. Thanks Kanthi THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT WALK -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+kanthikannan=gmail.com@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+kanthikannan=gmail.com@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of Mohsin.Sarker@roads.vic.gov.au Sent: 15 July 2010 04:10 To: sustran-discuss Cc: Sam.Pirrotta@roads.vic.gov.au; Jason.Stakic@roads.vic.gov.au; Martin.Chelini@roads.vic.gov.au Subject: [sustran] Re: Pelicans, puffings and Gap Actuated Ped Xing! Hello, When I was a masters course student in Utsunomiya University, Japan, I undertook a research work on "Gap Actuated Pedestrian Crossing" using a micro-simulation model (NETSIM / CORSIM). I presented this paper in TRB Annual meeting in Washington DC in 1999 available at http://trb.metapress.com/content/v616m73344u47217/. This research work addresses some of the issues at the pedestrian crossing indicated in the previous discussion. Abstract of the paper: A main concern with pedestrian crossings is the time that pedestrians are expected to wait before a traffic light changes. Pushbutton signal systems are mainly set to accommodate vehicular flow efficiency, and the interval for pedestrians to cross the street remains the same even if no vehicles are on the road or if there is a long gap between oncoming vehicles. Pedestrians often cross the road against the go-ahead pedestrian signal when they perceive an acceptable vehicular gap, sometimes even after pressing the pushbutton. Vehicles must stop even if no pedestrian is waiting to cross the street. This study examined a gap-actuated pushbutton signal via a traffic simulation model. The results show a substantial decrease in pedestrian waiting time with negligible effects on vehicular flow. If anyone interested to get a copy of full paper, please don't hesitate to send me an email. Kind Regards, Dr Mohsin Sarker Snr Traffic & Transport Engineer Traffic Operations - Central VicRoads Metropolitan North West Region 499 Ballarat Road, Sunshine 3030 T (03) 9313 1154 F (03) 9313 1175 E mohsin.sarker@roads.vic.gov.au W www.vicroads.vic.gov.au From: "Craig Townsend" To: "Ian Perry" Cc: sustran-discuss Date: 15/07/2010 02:45 AM Subject: [sustran] Re: Pelicans and puffings - thanks! Sent by: sustran-discuss-bounces+mohsin.sarker=roads.vic.gov.au@list.jca.apc.org Ext: Business Area: Fax: Internet: File Name: File Description: This email is from an external source. If it is a Business Record remember to file it by selecting 'File as Business Record' from the EMS menu option -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ian, Kanthi and others, I wasn't so much offended as amused by my confusion regarding the pelicans and the puffins. Following up on Ian's comment, I live in a Canadian city (Montreal) where there is widespread jay-walking, drivers almost never stop at zebra crossings (I live next to one and in three years I've witnessed perhaps 10 cars stopping and the majority of those had US license plates so weren't locals), and there is a fair amount of "running red" traffic lights, although paradoxically there is a prohibition on right turns on red and people obey the latter. I used to live in a Canadian city (Vancouver) where pedestrians wait for lights even when there are no cars, motorists will stop for a zebra crossing even if there is someone in the vicinity and it's not clear whether or not they will use it, and drivers are very attentive to the traffic signals. However, there are as far as I know no appreciable differences in levels of traffic fatalities or accidents when one factors in the quantity of driving (more in Vancouver, less in Montreal). Also opinion as to which is better is divided, even among the transport experts. This would be a good subject for a study as to why. I would guess that it's because the driver training and licensing are similar, as are the laws concerning the results of accidents. If you injure or kill someone and were acting illegally, the punishment can be severe and there is no consideration of one's social standing. In a recent high profile case, the former Attorney-General of the Province of Ontario had an altercation with a cyclist and in the events that followed the cyclist who was extremely drunk and belligerent was killed. The former high official had to face charges which were eventually dropped only because evidence apparently exonerated him of wrong-doing. The police did not give him any special treatment and in the end his career has been damaged by the incident. He also apparently feels very badly about the whole thing and apologized to members of the family of the cyclist. My observation after living in Bangkok for a number of years was that traffic laws are applied as a money making scheme for a large contingent of poorly paid traffic police required to provide money to their superiors, and that in the worst case people who have injured someone make some relatively small payments to the victim who is invariably poor. Attempts by the wealthy (such as the family of an American killed by a Bangkok bus in the 1990s) to follow legal proceedings for redress are invariably pointless. Furthermore, motorists who may have killed someone while doing nothing wrong will also be required to admit guilt and make the payment. It may sound ethnocentric, but I do feel that a basic problem is the lack of universal human and legal rights and the rule of law in many developing countries. All this is to say that pelicans and puffins may have limited utility in the absence of other basics. But we do always have to start somewhere. A former traffic official and engineer from Taipei told me some years ago that things began to turn around there when they removed pedestrian overpasses (they appealed in the media to notions of respect for elders who would have to climb those monstrosities) at the same time as they followed traffic police with TV cameras to ensure that they were doing their jobs in enforcing laws without bribes. Apologies for my long posting. Craig > How do the English English names, Pelican Crossing, Puffin Crossing and > Chicken Crossing, and are known to millions of people in the UK and India, > cause so much upset on this forum? > > The original question referred to the possibility of installing pelican > crossings (pedestrian crossings on streets, controlled by traffic lights) > in > Hyderabad, India. > > I live in a wonderful UK city where there are traffic lights, many with > pedestrian crossing facilities on almost every street. I watch people > live > their lives sat stationary in cars waiting for it to be their turn to > drive > their car past the green light as fast as possible. Only sometimes does > this result in an "accident". > > Meanwhile, pedestrians don't want to walk to the nearest crossing, but > cross > where they are, taking the shortest route - even if this means climbing > over > guardrails. If pedestrians do use the crossings with traffic lights, > often > they cross before the green light is shown to them. So England and the > rest > of the UK has spent millions of pounds on pedestrian lights that people > don't use! Even Boris Johnson, the Mayor of London, has realised > the folly of having so many traffic lights! > > In the Netherlands and UK, we are spending money to remove pedestrian > crossings and other sets of traffic lights - so is it so wrong of me to > suggest denying pedestrian crossings with traffic lights to those in > countries that have not realised for themselves the perils of such > expensive > technological solutions to traffic? > > Traffic lights treat the symptoms of the chaos on our streets, and not the > causes. The causes include the inappropriate vehicles we are using - and > the expectation that people should use them to access services and > facilities. > > In most parts of the world people do mostly obey traffic lights, though > the > colour blind, tired and distracted sometimes fail to stop, hitting those > who > assumed that they could use the junction safely due to a green light in > their direction. This is not the case in all places, including Italy and > Spain! Motorists in these countries frequently ignore traffic lights - > rather like Parisian motorists ignore the existence of pedestrians on > marked > pedestrian crossings - at least that was my perception. > > What India has (minus the rubbish/garbage/trash) is what many in Europe > want > our streets to be like. Would these roadsides be cleaner if it was not > for > the traffic making the space uncomfortable for people? > > Rather than make Hyderabad resemble LA - just as peak oil arrives, and > most > of the word realise that LA is a mistake... better solutions are > required. > > >>From what I've seen of Hyderabad on YouTube... Would narrowing the > carriageways and removing larger vehicles be possible? Larger vehicles > include larger private vehicles, goods vehicles and buses... Buses kill > too > many people, especially in India! Trams are much safer, as their movement > is predictable... and trams can carry goods. Smaller goods vehicles or > restricting goods vehicles to certain times could be an option - and > freight > consolidation could work in India? > > Traffic lights and restricting pedestrians to specified crossings are not > the answer - pedestrians have the right to the whole street - and this > means > crossing where it is convenient for them - otherwise they'll get into a > car > instead... > > "Jay" walking is a good activity - though I know this will upset some > people! > > > > Best wishes to all > > Ian Perry > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > ------------------------------------------------- Craig Townsend, Ph.D. Associate Professor Department of Geography, Planning and Environment Concordia University Tel 514-848-2424 ext. 5191 E-mail townsend@alcor.concordia.ca Fax 514-848-2032 1455 De Maisonneuve Blvd. West, H 1255-27 Montreal, Quebec Canada H3G 1M8 gpe.concordia.ca www.concordia.ca -------------------------------------------------------- To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss -------------------------------------------------------- If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). DISCLAIMER The following conditions apply to this communication and any attachments: VicRoads reserves all of its copyright; the information is intended for the addressees only and may be confidential and/or privileged - it must not be passed on by any other recipients; any expressed opinions are those of the sender and not necessarily VicRoads; VicRoads accepts no liability for any consequences arising from the recipient's use of this means of communication and/or the information contained in and/or attached to this communication. If this communication has been received in error, please contact the person who sent this communication and delete all copies. -------------------------------------------------------- To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss -------------------------------------------------------- If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Fri Jul 16 19:36:25 2010 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric britton) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 12:36:25 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Honk! "City of the Future" (Have a stupid weekend) Message-ID: <019e01cb24d2$c0c7e910$4257bb30$@britton@ecoplan.org> Honk! "City of the Future" (Have a stupid weekend) The Editor | 16 July 2010 at 12:17 | Categories: bad ideas , greenwash , madness , media , technology solutions | URL: http://wp.me/psKUY-LT We here at World Streets always have problems with "cities of the future" visions, not so much because they are almost always consistently whacky in some unreal-world way, but because they tend to project things so far into the distant, almost always thoroughly magical future, that they get us off the hook for doing anything [...] Read more of this post Add a comment to this post From peebeebarter at gmail.com Mon Jul 19 21:07:15 2010 From: peebeebarter at gmail.com (Paul Barter) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 20:07:15 +0800 Subject: [sustran] fwd: Debate on public transport in Delhi Message-ID: via http://globalurbanist.com/2010/07/18/debating-the-liberalisation-of-public-transport-in-delhi.aspx Debating the liberalisation of public transport in Delhi Two weeks ago *Barun Mitra*, director of India's Liberty Institute, called for the liberalisation of the entire public transport sector in Delhi, prophesying rather naively that this would "improve the quality of life for all of Delhi's residents". Today *Karthik Rao Cavale*, researcher at Rutgers University, counters that because of the great many externalities affecting the transport market, state intervention will always be required to manage both supply and demand of public transport, and the welfare of pedestrians (who are rarely asked to pay for using the footpath)! The article provides links to the two items on livemint. From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Tue Jul 20 19:42:07 2010 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric britton) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 12:42:07 +0200 Subject: [sustran] =?iso-8859-1?Q?The_Guradian_comes_to_visit_Paris_and_V?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E9lib=27?= Message-ID: <00a101cb27f8$375dadd0$a6190970$@britton@ecoplan.org> The Guardian comes to visit Paris and V?lib' The Editor | 20 July 2010 at 12:18 | Categories: bike bicycle , bikeshare , event , sharing | URL: http://wp.me/psKUY-MZ In the context of the start-up of London's long-awaited public bicycle project next week, the British daily The Guardian sent reporter Leo Hickman to meet with the London start-up team, and then arranged for him to spend a day with us in Paris asking about and riding the V?lib'. It just so happened that his [...] Read more of this post Add a comment to this post From yanivbin at gmail.com Wed Jul 21 16:25:35 2010 From: yanivbin at gmail.com (Vinay Baindur) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 12:55:35 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Bottom-up urban planning The public must control public spaces Message-ID: Bottom-up urban planningThe public must control public spacesBusiness Standard / New Delhi July 18, 2010, 0:06 IST http://www.business-standard.com//india/storypage.php?autono=401701 Some residents of Hyderabad have initiated a campaign to assert their ?right to walk?. The campaign is led by a middle-aged lady who finds it offensive to have to walk past patches where men relieve themselves ? and these in turn will point to the extreme scarcity of public conveniences. The point is that when public money is spent to improve public thoroughfares, no thought is given to the right of citizens to walk comfortably and safely along those roads. All too often, carriageways are widened by eating into pavements, placing the needs and demands of those using motorised transport over those of walkers. A similar public protest movement has gained momentum in Bangalore, in which the affected residents of particular areas and prominent citizens who empathise with them have banded together to protest against counter-productive road-widening work. Homes, shops and grand trees are being razed to make way for slightly wider roads, which will do little to relieve the traffic congestion for which the city is now known. The citizens? contention is that a contractor-civic official-petty politician nexus is focused on helping itself, unconcerned about what real benefit road-widening projects and flyovers bring to the public, and the damage they cause to public spaces. They have been emboldened by a concerted citizens? campaign which was able to halt the construction of a war memorial in a prominent park which is currently just a green lung. The time may have come to formalise the avenues for citizens to express their views. One of the reforms that the national urban renewal mission says civic authorities should put in place in order to quality for central funding is active ward committees, and these should be consulted regularly when formulating an urban agenda. The NGO Janaagraha has been seeking to mobilise and train Bangalore citizens to insist on a say in the way their neighbourhoods are run. It is campaigning for a law that will make it mandatory for the civic authorities to consult local residents on their work programme and agenda. In other words, it is not enough for citizens to simply criticise local government bodies for misdirected urban growth models and the declining quality of urban life. They have to take the initiative, mobilise and make themselves heard so that they get a say in the governing of their cities, and take ownership. The best examples of urban renewal in the world indicate that top-down master plans usually do not work. Cities are best able to change themselves for the better when all their stakeholders gather together, and agree on a common agenda in which they all see value for themselves. This is as true of Curitiba, which gave itself a bus rapid transit system that has transformed it, as it is of Barcelona which has been able to rejuvenate and revive some of its most distinctive inner-city areas. On the other hand, a city like Miami has been unwilling to go by the development pattern that ?enlightened? activists and city planners feel is good for it. Most civic officials will not welcome a more direct people?s voice interfering with their plans, so the ?public? will have to wrest control over the public space; it will not be given to them on a platter From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Thu Jul 22 01:09:57 2010 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric britton) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 18:09:57 +0200 Subject: [sustran] At Any Cost? The hidden costs of charging for public transport Message-ID: <04d601cb28ef$2e3e7110$8abb5330$@britton@ecoplan.org> At Any Cost? The hidden costs of charging for public transport The Editor | 21 July 2010 at 17:43 | Categories: New Mobility | URL: http://wp.me/psKUY-Nr Today's piece by Alex Berthelsen of Planka.nu, Sweden's largest public transport NGO, is part of World Streets wide-open brainstorming series on "free public transport". The most recent article in this series appeared here last week under the title "Why Free Public Transport is a bad idea", inviting our readers to share their critical thoughts on [...] Read more of this post Add a comment to this post From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Thu Jul 22 16:43:39 2010 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric britton) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 09:43:39 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Non Motorized Cell, In-Reply-To: References: <4c46f53a.092d730a.0305.ffffee7c@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <007c01cb2971$a0fcdac0$e2f69040$@britton@ecoplan.org> Thanks so much for this Ranjit - and sincere congratulations on a great sustainability activist concept that I would like to see studied, adapted and put into service in cities around the world. In addition to the rest, your idea of assigning specific individual responsibility within the administration (and one would hope also in your group) to specific pathways is brilliant. Once we start to get the responsibilities down to specific human beings with names and faces, we are getting on the right path. Outlining this strategy and your results would certainly make a good feature for World Streets. These are the kinds of concepts that we are continually on the look out for. Do you know SeeClickFix? It could be a good companion tool for you. Here is a bit of background to get you going . Video introduction by their founder: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIsFcydDbkw &feature=player_embedded#! . Interesting piece on Smart Mobs at http://www.smartmobs.com/2010/05/27/seeclickfix-and-gov-20/ . An article appeared in World Streets last year - http://worldstreets.wordpress.com/2009/03/26/toolbox-seeclickfix/ I am copying this note to Ben Berkowitz with the thought that it might shake something loose from him. (Hi Ben.) Best/Eric Eric Britton | WorldStreets.org | NewMobility.org | Skype: newmobility 8, rue Jospeh Bara | Paris 75006 France | +331 7550 3788 From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Thu Jul 22 17:37:00 2010 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric britton) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 10:37:00 +0200 Subject: [sustran] World Share/Transport Forum: Kaohsiung, 16-19 September 2010 Message-ID: <00b001cb2979$0f5436b0$2dfca410$@britton@ecoplan.org> cid:image001.png@01CB2908.F75A7990 Heavy traffic on the way to sustainable cities and sustainable lives . . . Paris, Thursday, July 22, 2010 Subject: Sustainable transport's missing link. Dear Friends, I would very much like to invite your comments and ideas on the game plan for what I believe is going to be the world's first international conference solely devoted to the theme of sharing in transport. And if sharing seems like a minor idea to you, an inconsequential detour, well let me point you first to the attached short media release and from there to our 95% ready to go website at www.kaohsiung.sharetransport.org and invite you to read on. We might well think of it as sustainable transport's missing link. Here are several points in our preparations that I would like to ask your counsel on (for now in private to eric.britton@newmobility.org and then I can get a resume to the group later if it seems useful for them). . Your critical observations and suggestions to improve the still not quite finished website. (What you do not already see on line are our detailed two-page work programs and background information for each session. We call these our 90 minute Master Classes. To follow next week.) . Your good thoughts on the rough draft page on the eventual Young Researchers add-on project. We have already gotten some enthusiastic expressions of interest from young researchers and activists, and think this is something really worth doing. But we are going to need a budget for it? Any clues for us? . Want to be part of the conference? Do you have a working paper or web reference that could be useful to the group? If so, please let's hear from you. . And should you be interested in joining us in Kaohsiung, I am afraid that our ground zero budget does not have any fat in it for air travel or local accommodations, but I am sure that we will be able to arrange free access to all the conference events in the case you are able to pitch in join us. Finally, one last wrinkle on what we are trying to achieve here. Yes, to organize and conduct a first rate conference on this important and largely neglected topic. But also to provide a continuing useful resource to anyone anywhere in the world who wishes to know more about share/transport strategies and techniques. I hope you find this of useful and await with real interest your comments and suggestions. And who knows, we may even see you in Kaohsiung. Let's talk about it. With all good wishes, Eric * World Streets is available daily at worldstreets.org and www.facebook.worldstreets.org . * Africa Streets is getting underway at www.africastreets.wordpress.org * Les Rues du Monde in start-up mode at www.lesruesdumonde.org * And the New Mobility Partnerships and its collaborative programs at www.program.newmobility.org cid:image002.png@01CB2908.F75A7990 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20100722/1a9472aa/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Message-ID: <349328.42326.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi, I read somewhere on an internet forum that in Bogot? (some years ago ?) they decided to try making fun of car drivers that had parked illegally. This method proved to be much more effective towards the local (macho?) car-drivers, than issuing tickets. According to what I recall to have read, that is. Vaguely I seem to recall that pantomime was the preferred method. Can anyone confirm this, or even better point to a reference or other similar "best practices" ? -- Regards / Kvedja Morten Lange, Reykjav?k From carlosfpardo at gmail.com Fri Jul 23 02:57:10 2010 From: carlosfpardo at gmail.com (Carlosfelipe Pardo) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 12:57:10 -0500 Subject: [sustran] Re: Best Practice: Fun Poked at Drivers Parking Illegally ? In-Reply-To: <468690.64963.qm@web51007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <468690.64963.qm@web51007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4C488676.5020405@gmail.com> (ccing sustran in case you're interested in the followup) No, that was different. The mime stuff was done by Mockus (1995-1997) and it was mimes and people dressed as zebras standing on the pedestrian crossings where cars would stop neglecting them. He restored respect to pedestrian crossings that way.... maybe it's that? There were related measures as well.... Carlosfelipe Pardo On 22/07/2010 12:25 p.m., Morten Lange wrote: > Thanks, Carlosfelipe ! > > That was a quick response indeed. > > But am I misinformed then, about the persons placing those stickers onto cars ? > Were they actors/street theatre people or similar, making a show out of the placing of the stickers ? > > -- > Regards / Kvedja > Morten Lange, Reykjav?k > > > --- On Thu, 22/7/10, Carlosfelipe Pardo wrote: > > >> From: Carlosfelipe Pardo >> Subject: Re: [sustran] Best Practice: Fun Poked at Drivers Parking Illegally ? >> To: "Morten Lange" >> Date: Thursday, 22 July, 2010, 18:18 >> Hi, >> >> The sticker thing was done in Bogot? at some point but >> nobody has been able to show me the sticker they developed >> or the actual impact of the campaign. It was done (as many >> other things) during 1998-2000. We are now planning >> something similar (putting a sticker on cars that are parked >> on sidewalks or in front of no-parking signs, but are a bit >> afraid of legal or "physical" repercusions (most illegally >> parked cars have bodyguards and we wouldn't want to have a >> problem.... some people have done facebook groups showing >> pictures of the cars that they've found illegally parked. >> The slogan of the whole thing is "MalParqueados", which is >> similar to a 4-letter word in Spanish. >> >> Quito also did something similar, their sticker said >> something like "don't park on my sidewalk, or I will put my >> sticker on your car" (in Spanish the wording was nicer), and >> had a large footprint drawn on the sticker. >> >> So yes, it can be effective, but for the same reason of >> "macho" car drivers you'll have other problems as well.... >> if you're able to run quickly.... >> >> Carlosfelipe Pardo >> >> On 22/07/2010 12:10 p.m., Morten Lange wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I read somewhere on an internet forum that in Bogot? >>> >> (some years ago ?) they decided to try making fun of car >> drivers that had parked illegally. >> >>> This method proved to be much more effective >>> >> towards the local (macho?) car-drivers, than issuing >> tickets. >> >>> According to what I recall to have read, that >>> >> is. Vaguely I seem to recall that pantomime was the >> preferred method. >> >>> Can anyone confirm this, or even better point to a >>> >> reference or other similar "best practices" ? >> >>> >>> -- >>> Regards / Kvedja >>> Morten Lange, Reykjav?k >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> >>> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit >>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss >>> >>> >>> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> >>> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go >>> >> to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss >> to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership >> rights. >> >>> >>> >> ================================================================ >> >>> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of >>> >> people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a >> focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). >> >>> >>> > > > > From krc12353 at gmail.com Fri Jul 23 14:40:37 2010 From: krc12353 at gmail.com (Karthik Rao-Cavale) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 01:40:37 -0400 Subject: [sustran] A closer look at Transportation in Mumbai Message-ID: Dear All, I invite you to read two posts I put up on my blog recently on transportation in Mumbai. 1) An open letter to the Chief Minister of Maharashtra ( http://vishwakarman.wordpress.com/2010/07/21/transportation-in-the-united-states-an-open-letter-to-the-chief-minister-of-maharashtra/) This is a somewhat satirical critique on the desirability of emulating the United States model of transportation infrastructure in India, followed by an analysis of the sorts of solutions that might work in India. 2) What's Mumbai been upto? ( http://vishwakarman.wordpress.com/2010/07/22/whats-mumbai-been-upto/ ) This is a collection of the latest news items and just a little bit of analysis about transportation infrastructure in Mumbai. Please feel free to look around the blog. :) Regards, karthik -- karthik vishwakarman.wordpress.com From bruun at seas.upenn.edu Sat Jul 24 03:23:51 2010 From: bruun at seas.upenn.edu (bruun at seas.upenn.edu) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 14:23:51 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: At Any Cost? The hidden costs of charging for public transport In-Reply-To: <04d601cb28ef$2e3e7110$8abb5330$@britton@ecoplan.org> References: <04d601cb28ef$2e3e7110$8abb5330$@britton@ecoplan.org> Message-ID: <20100723142351.94984z8pihf5m0q8@webmail.seas.upenn.edu> Berthelsen makes a comparison between Island Transit on Whidbey Island and the Stockholm transit system. I know them both quite well. There is a world of difference. Whidbey is an example of a system that shouldn't charge for the reasons he gives and the reasons I gave a week or two ago. For them overloading and fare revenue are not signlificant. Stockholm is an example of a system that should charge, for the reasons so many others on this listserve have explained. Stockholm rail lines are already seriously overloaded at times and fare revenue is highly important. Berthelsen is absolutely right that checking tickets and collecting fares can waste time, but it is possible to eliminate this hassle and wasted time and still charge by going to an honor system, with proof-of-payment when challenged. Eric Bruun Quoting eric britton : > > > > At > f-charging-for-public-transport/> Any Cost? The hidden costs of charging > for public transport > > The Editor | 21 > July 2010 at 17:43 | Categories: New Mobility > | URL: > http://wp.me/psKUY-Nr > Today's piece by Alex Berthelsen of Planka.nu, Sweden's largest public > transport NGO, is part of World Streets wide-open brainstorming series on > "free public transport". The most recent article in this series appeared > here last week under the title "Why Free Public Transport is a bad idea", > inviting our readers to share their critical thoughts on [...] > Read > f-charging-for-public-transport/> more of this post > Add > f-charging-for-public-transport/#respond> a comment to this post > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the > real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing > countries (the 'Global South'). > > From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Sun Jul 25 05:07:54 2010 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric britton) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 22:07:54 +0200 Subject: [sustran] BRT in Guangzhou. Way to go EMBARQ Message-ID: <019001cb2b6b$e9570380$bc050a80$@britton@ecoplan.org> From: Lee Schipper [mailto:schipper@wri.org] Chinese Cities Find Bus-Only Lanes an Alternative to Cars and Subways * green inc. Green Inc. A blog about energy, the environment and the bottom line. Go to Blog ? With their rising incomes and access to freshly paved roads, many will be tempted to emulate Americans and buy cars. Some will ride the gleaming rail networks funded by Beijing. But in the past two years, China has also become the world's fastest-growing market for high-speed city buses. In February, the southern city of Guangzhou rolled out China's latest effort, a 14-mile stretch of a main road striped with bus-only lanes down the middle. The sleek buses race between raised stations that resemble train stops. Ridership has already shattered the figures of other bus systems in Asia. Now the system beats out the ridership of every metro line in mainland China except Beijing's. The approach is called bus rapid transit, or BRT, and it has already proven itself in some Latin American megacities, such as Bogot? and Mexico City. Particularly in the developing world, cities have turned to BRT to address crippling traffic. It's a bargain compared to subways and other metro trains, whose infrastructure costs make them four to 10 times more expensive. The simplicity of building BRT means a system can be up and running in less than five years, compared to train systems that can take a decade or more. About a dozen Chinese cities have working BRT systems today, and dozens more are in the works. The movement is largely driven by demographic reality: According to McKinsey Global Institute, Chinese cities will add 350 million people -- roughly the U.S. population -- by 2030. Most will have migrated to cities from the countryside, searching for their share of China's dynamic growth. All will need power, water and a way to get to work. Can a love affair with cars be cooled? Beijing and local governments have encouraged cars by subsidizing fuel and building roads; tales abound of middle-class Chinese falling in love with the SUV. But the authorities have also plunged money into transit. "The Chinese are understanding very well the challenge ahead. The challenge ahead is that with the growth of personal income and activity, there's a greater need of mobility," said Dario Hidalgo, senior transport engineer for EMBARQ, a group researching international transport at the World Resources Institute. "And they are not adopting necessarily the same model that the U.S. has adopted in trying to solve all their mobility needs through the construction of highways and increasing the capacity of their road network," he said. Guangzhou is a thoroughbred in the Chinese economy; in 2007, its gross domestic product grew 16 percent. Jennifer Turner, who directs the China Environment Forum at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars, said Guangzhou makes about 60 percent of the world's toys and about a fifth of all cell phones. "They're responsible for an insanely large hunk of China's GDP. It's really the industrial powerhouse of China," she said. That economic muscle had already made Zhongshan Avenue, a key vein running through the city center, one of the busiest bus corridors in the world. Yet traffic was glacial. Giving buses priority lanes and signals made no difference in the zig-zagging free-for-all between cars, buses and unflinching pedestrians. Getting rid of glacial traffic flows A U.S.-headquartered nongovernmental organization, the Institute for Transportation and Development Policy, approached Guangzhou's then-mayor with a far-out proposal: Dig up the middle of Zhongshan Avenue. Set up sparkling bus terminals and give the buses their own lanes. Relegate cars to the edges. On top of that, ITDP recommended timing the traffic lights, setting up computers to take rider fares automatically and feed them constant bus information, and sizing the stations according to where they were. To further convince the mayor, Zhang Guangming, ITDP sent him and top city officials to South America, home of the best BRTs in the world. In S?o Paulo, Brazil, Zhang was captivated by the buses freewheeling in their dedicated lanes. He asked Guangzhou officials and ITDP to investigate whether it could work there, and by late 2004, plans were being laid. The idea was polished, but the execution was rocky. BRT wasn't new in China, but the Guangzhou project was of an entirely new scale, said Karl Fjellstrom, ITDP's lead on the project. "You can imagine in some of the most congested locations in the city, we were taking 24 meters out of the middle of the road," he said. "So, very controversial during the construction. It took a lot of political courage by the mayor." Drivers complained that they had to use side streets. Bus riders stood in the baking heat and pounding rain because the bus shelters had been removed. The news media piled on: They said the project was a boondoggle, sure to fail within a few years. Mayor Zhang wasn't an elected official, so he didn't have to face voters at the ballot box. He preserved the least popular aspects of the system, such as the 200-meter-long bus stations that allow multiple pickup points. Since the system opened in February, it has set several world records for BRT. It handles 800,000 trips a day, more than any of Guangzhou's train lines. Meanwhile, Zhang has been promoted to Communist Party secretary for Guangzhou. Comprehensive statistics on the system won't be available till Fall, but ITDP said that according to an accounting method being developed by the U.N. Environment Programme, Guangzhou's BRT reduces about 20,000 tons of CO2 a year -- the equivalent of the emissions from about 4,000 cars in the United States. Most of that comes from the fact that the buses can move faster without cars in the way; the BRT can also use longer buses, which means fewer total vehicles are needed. Eliminating 200,000 tons of carbon Walter Hook, ITDP's executive director, thinks the BRT also loosens traffic in other parts of town. Cars can move more quickly without buses crowding the lanes; pedestrians and bicyclists can also breathe a bit easier. If one were to include these indirect impacts -- not a trivial point, Hook said -- the Guangzhou BRT may save as much as 200,000 tons of CO2 a year. Worldwide, BRT tends to draw converts: Between 10 and 15 percent of riders are thought to be riding in lieu of driving their cars. Observers agree that cities aren't choosing BRT for its climate benefits and that beating congestion still rules the roost. But as these cities gain wealth, handle more movement, and begin to choose their infrastructure, there's the hope that they won't lock themselves into an auto-centric system. Millions of future commuters could have a much smaller carbon footprint, without even knowing it. Hidalgo of EMBARQ said the main effect of BRT is a "future effect of decreasing the need for people to move to cars and motorcyles." That's why, for many cities, merely maintaining the share of travel that's done by transit is considered a victory. Om Prakash Agarwal, a senior urban transport specialist at the World Bank, said most cities looking to fight traffic are considering BRT first. Nevertheless, he said, BRT doesn't suit the most crowded areas. If a city needs to move more than 20,000 people per hour in a given stretch, the World Bank will recommend a conventional metro train. The bank still devotes the lion's share of its transport lending to highways, but Agarwal said "urban transport," which is mostly transit, is the fastest-growing area. Carbon emissions aren't explicitly measured in these projects, he said, but they are a "co-benefit" that's considered alongside a project's ability to reduce traffic. Copyright 2010 E&E Publishing. All Rights Reserved. Lee Schipper, Ph.D. Project Scientist, Global Metropolitan Studies, UC Berkeley Senior Research Engineer, Precourt Energy Efficiency Center, Stanford Univ. phone +1 510 642 6889 fax +1 510 642 6061 cell for emergencies +1 202 262 7476 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 644 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20100724/c428b932/attachment.gif -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 2496 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20100724/c428b932/attachment-0001.gif From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Mon Jul 26 17:43:21 2010 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric britton) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 10:43:21 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Transport Research position at University of Bologna, Italy. Message-ID: <010601cb2c9e$9c24bf60$d46e3e20$@britton@ecoplan.org> Behalf Of Joerg Schweizer Sent: Monday, 26 July, 2010 09:56 Dear Colleagues, sorry for disturbing you a second time with this research position. I would like to ask for applications to be submitted by AUGUST 2nd 2010 (In the last mail I stated "as soon as possible"). As the formal application (deadline by the end of August) requires some efforts from your side (official translation of titles in Italian, recognition etc.) I have decided to make a pre-selection by 03/08/2010. I think this is in your interest as it prevents you from wasting your time. Copy of job description follows below. With kind regards, Joerg Schweizer - Joerg.Schweizer@mail.ing.unibo.it ************************************************************************ Transport Research position at University of Bologna, Italy, starting in September 2010 Dear Colleagues, We are immediately hiring staff for a research position with a duration of maximum 3 years. The general research topic is on modeling car-free living, soft-modes, public transport and how it may change long-term land-use and the economy. A large part of the work will be dedicated to a project of the central European programme called "BICY" (www.bicy.it). The main task for this project will be to coordinate mobility surveys and to evaluate the efficiency of bicycle infrastructure. Another task will be to follow and manage the project as partner. Clearly, this means report-writing and attending relevant meetings and workshops. Requirements for job application are: - PhD in engineering science or economy, or 3 years of specialization (Master). - 2 years of professional experience or research (documentation/publications) - Perfect English in spoken and written (Italian would be helpful but is not necessary) The candidate should ideally have skills in the following: - Knowledge in statistical data analyses, LUTI models, economic background - Experience/knowledge of bicycle projects or planning or evaluation - Experience with international/EU projects, report writing, etc - Experience with software and programming in the field of transport We also prefer candidates who live in countries/cities with a "reasonable" bicycle culture. The project has officially started in March 2010 and has a duration of three years. Work contract is approximately 1500EUR/month net salary and is to be renewed each year. For applicants without PhD, there is also the possibility to attend the doctoral programme for free in order to develop a PhD thesis on the research topic. From edelman at greenidea.eu Thu Jul 29 10:17:08 2010 From: edelman at greenidea.eu (Todd Edelman) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 03:17:08 +0200 Subject: [sustran] BAE Systems signs Indian Hawk jet deal for about 700 million Pounds Message-ID: <4C50D694.1090508@greenidea.eu> BAE Systems signs Indian Hawk jet deal http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-10790222 Defence group BAE Systems and engine supplier Rolls-Royce have signed a ?700m deal to supply India's Hindustan Aeronautics with 57 Hawk training jets... *** For the same price: Approximately 5,600 city buses made in India, keeping five large bus factories occupied for a year. (It seems like the Hawks will be partly made in India). For comparison, there will be in total about 6,500 buses in Dehli's bus fleet ready for the Commonwealth Games later this year. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAE_Systems http://www.rediff.com/money/2006/jan/13auto.htm http://www.businessworld.in/index.php/Automobiles/A-Bus-Named-Volvo.htm http://www.hindustantimes.com/911-more-low-floor-buses-to-ply-on-road-before-C-wealth-DTC/Article1-579106.aspx So, why is India outsourcing part of its vehicle manufacturing to England? :-) - From the What can we (really) afford? division of Green Idea Factory, happily divorcing wars from mobility since 2006. -- Todd Edelman Green Idea Factory, a member of the OPENbike team Mobile: ++49(0)162 814 4081 Immobile: ++49(0)30 7554 0001 edelman@greenidea.eu www.greenidea.eu todd@openbike.se www.openbike.se Skype: toddedelman Urbanstr. 45 10967 Berlin Germany *** OPENbike - Share the Perfect Fit! From peebeebarter at gmail.com Thu Jul 29 15:40:08 2010 From: peebeebarter at gmail.com (Paul Barter) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 14:40:08 +0800 Subject: [sustran] Re: BAE Systems signs Indian Hawk jet deal for about 700 million Pounds In-Reply-To: <4C50D694.1090508@greenidea.eu> References: <4C50D694.1090508@greenidea.eu> Message-ID: Point taken Todd. But I am nervous that this might send discussions off on an off-topic tangent for the sustran-discuss list. This is not the appropriate forum for discussion of military spending or the broad budget priorities of any country. They are important issues but the focus of this list is urban transport policy, especially in developing countries. Let's try to stay focused on that so that people get what they signed up for. So please let's all refrain from taking up this particular thread here. If anyone wants to respond to Todd on these issues, please do it in private email. All the best, Paul Barter (co-manager of sustran-discuss, with Karl Fjellstrom) On 29 July 2010 09:17, Todd Edelman wrote: > BAE Systems signs Indian Hawk jet deal > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-10790222 > > Defence group BAE Systems and engine supplier Rolls-Royce have signed a > ?700m deal to supply India's Hindustan Aeronautics with 57 Hawk training > jets... > > *** > > For the same price: Approximately 5,600 city buses made in India, > keeping five large bus factories occupied for a year. (It seems like the > Hawks will be partly made in India). For comparison, there will be in > total about 6,500 buses in Dehli's bus fleet ready for the Commonwealth > Games later this year. > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAE_Systems > http://www.rediff.com/money/2006/jan/13auto.htm > http://www.businessworld.in/index.php/Automobiles/A-Bus-Named-Volvo.htm > > http://www.hindustantimes.com/911-more-low-floor-buses-to-ply-on-road-before-C-wealth-DTC/Article1-579106.aspx > > > So, why is India outsourcing part of its vehicle manufacturing to > England? :-) > > > - From the What can we (really) afford? division of Green Idea Factory, > happily divorcing wars from mobility since 2006. > > -- > > Todd Edelman > Green Idea Factory, > a member of the OPENbike team > > Mobile: ++49(0)162 814 4081 > Immobile: ++49(0)30 7554 0001 > > edelman@greenidea.eu > www.greenidea.eu > todd@openbike.se > www.openbike.se > > Skype: toddedelman > > Urbanstr. 45 > 10967 Berlin > Germany > > *** > > OPENbike - Share the Perfect Fit! > > -------------------------------------------------------- > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss > > -------------------------------------------------------- > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > From krc12353 at gmail.com Thu Jul 29 16:44:34 2010 From: krc12353 at gmail.com (Karthik Rao-Cavale) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 03:44:34 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Transit in India - to air-condition or not? Message-ID: Dear All, I request you to comment on my post regarding the desirability of air-conditioning in transit in India posted here: http://vishwakarman.wordpress.com/2010/07/27/air-conditioning-in-transit-a-third-world-perspective/ I have got some interesting comments, but I'd like to hear what professional transit planners have to say on the subject. Regards, -- karthik vishwakarman.wordpress.com From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Thu Jul 29 22:41:08 2010 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric britton) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:41:08 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Dancing around the carbon tax in the United States Senate Message-ID: <027e01cb2f23$b6341ae0$229c50a0$@britton@ecoplan.org> Dancing around the carbon tax in the United States Senate The Editor | 28 July 2010 at 14:39 | Categories: CO2 , carbon tax , climate | URL: http://wp.me/psKUY-Oo Climate and climate policy are more than moderately complicated issues, as we all are well aware. But at the end of the day we know too there are a certain number of basic underlying truths that shape these issues and outcomes which one either grasps or one does not. And in this regard, there can [...] Read more of this post Add a comment to this post From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Thu Jul 29 23:10:38 2010 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric britton) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 16:10:38 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Transit in India - to air-condition or not? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02aa01cb2f27$d41495e0$7c3dc1a0$@britton@ecoplan.org> Well done Karthik. And kind thanks for brining this good blog to my attention. We'll short list it for World Streets. What about designs that use low cost, low maintenance schemes for improving fresh air circulation and perhaps some kind of simple water- or other cooling system that passes the cost-maintenance tests, which really have to be draconian if those responsible are to meet the challenge? Eric Britton From krc12353 at gmail.com Fri Jul 30 07:04:22 2010 From: krc12353 at gmail.com (Karthik Rao-Cavale) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 18:04:22 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: Transit in India - to air-condition or not? In-Reply-To: <-4884028712561454941@unknownmsgid> References: <-4884028712561454941@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Copy-pasting an excellent comment by Ian Perry: "This reminds me of my time in Sydney, Australia, when I changed my mode of transport from train to bus, which had air conditioning. My reason for the modal change was that the train relied on the movement of air to keep passengers cool, but the service encountered many delays, leaving passengers exposed to extreme heat with no breeze and once I was on a train that became stationary between stations, I could not get off and walk as I could (and did) when travelling on the air-conditioned bus. What I have found on my many travels around the world is that keeping public transport moving, and thus a natural breeze cooling passengers on hot days, is more important that air-conditioning. This is even the case in London, where the roofs of the buses have been painted white to reflect the sun and the numbers of opening windows increased, rather than spend money on air-conditioning that would be of little use most of the time. Passengers are cool enough unless the bus gets stuck in traffic?. Of the 8,500 buses in the London fleet 6,356 have white roof panels which help to reflect the heat. New buses must have insulated roof and side panels which reflect heat along with tinted side glass. All new double-deck buses are now fitted with air cooling systems and all double-deck buses in London?s fleet have been fitted with extra opening windows. In Tokyo, shivering train passengers enjoy the doors opening at stations as the warmer air outside enters their carriage! There were only a few days in the year I spent in Tokyo when I thought I needed air-conditioning in order to use public transport ? but at home a fan creating a breeze was enough to keep me cool, allowing the noisy air-conditioning unit to remain switched off. I agree that air-conditioning is ?addictive? and also usually unnecessary. It?s much better to have open windows and a frequent, reliable public transport service that keeps the vehicles moving! Below are a couple of links to heat problems suffered in the UK in 2003. Stationary and slow moving, crowded vehicles appear to be the problem ? or air-conditioning breaking down on sealed carriages? Heat brings commuter meltdown http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-5756632-heat-brings-commuter-meltdown.do Passengers sweat on broken train http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cumbria/3127447.stm" On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 10:10 AM, eric britton wrote: > Well done Karthik. And kind thanks for brining this good blog to my > attention. We'll short list it for World Streets. > > What about designs that use low cost, low maintenance schemes for improving > fresh air circulation and perhaps some kind of simple water- or other > cooling system that passes the cost-maintenance tests, which really have to > be draconian if those responsible are to meet the challenge? > > Eric Britton > > > > > > > -- karthik vishwakarman.wordpress.com From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Fri Jul 30 18:57:06 2010 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric britton) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 11:57:06 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Kaohsiung 2010: First International Share/Transport Forum Message-ID: <01bc01cb2fcd$a01457c0$e03d0740$@britton@ecoplan.org> "On the whole, you find wealth more in use than in ownership." - Aristotle. ca. 350 BC First International Share/Transport Forum - Kaohsiung City, Taiwan - 16 - 19 September 2010 In some of the world's most successful and livable cities, we are already entering into a world of new mobility practices that are changing the transportation landscape. It has to do with sharing, as opposed to outright ownership. The City of Kaohsiung, together with an international team from the Chinese Institute of Transport (CIT) and the New Mobility Partnerships , is organizing three-day international forum to take place from 16 - 19 September 2010, in which professionals working at the leading edge of sustainable transport innovations are coming together, to examine together the concept and practice of sharing transport in the 21st century, to discuss future applications for Share/Transport in Taiwan, China, Asia and beyond. Who should attend - * Researchers, city administration, operators, large public sector employers, activists, NGOs, students, consultants, media, and suppliers or products, technology and services to the sector . From Taiwan, China, South-East Asia and all others interested . Language: Chinese/English. Full translation of all sessions * Click here for conference brochure and invitation - www.k2010-sum.sharetransport.org * See www.kaohsiung.sharetransport.org or www.kaohsiung-sharetransport.com.tw (Chinese) for full information World Share/Transport Forum International Collaboration and exchange - Opportunities and invitations Kaohsiung 2010 This is a continuing international program; the Kaohsiung conference is intended to be the opening shot in a series of collaborative initiatives in support of transport sharing that are set to take place in the months and several years ahead. Here are some of the collaborative currents which may interest you and concerning which we should be most pleased to hear from you. . Working papers and reports covering the topics under discussion are welcome and will be selectively shared with the conference . Shared/resources: We are developing a shared library of resources and program information on the full range of topics under discussion (see website for clarification). You are invited to inspect and add to there. . Journal of record: World Streets is the journal of record for the World Share/Transport Forum and the Kaohsiung 2010 Conference. You can check it out http://worldstreets.wordpress.com/category/sharing/. If you have ideas for articles, contact the editor at editor@worldstreets.org . Languages - The conference is in English and Chinese with simultaneous translation of all sessions. Some may find use in the Google Translate buttons that have been incorporated into each page of the site, offering useful (for some) one click rough translations into 18 languages. . Young Researchers/Future Leaders project: This could be an important project component as you will see on the introductory section on the site. But there is very little time. We need to find the resources for these "backpack" fellowships. We have plenty of excellent candidates and it would be great to find the means to bring them to Kaohsiung. Any ideas for us about financing and other forms of support? . Round Tables: We are already discussing the possibility of several Regional, National or City Round Tables, building on the base which has thus far been created. Would you be interested in discussing? . 2011 World Conference. We already are discussing the 2011 conference and are looking for collaborators and hosts? Any ideas for us? Please share this posting with your colleagues, lists and others who share our interests. If you have questions or suggestions, kindly contact eric.britton@newmobility.org or Skype newmobility. 8, rue Jospeh Bara | Paris 75006 France | +331 7550 3788 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/png Size: 33957 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20100730/85394af0/attachment-0001.png From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Sat Jul 31 04:44:22 2010 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric britton) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 21:44:22 +0200 Subject: [sustran] A note on Kaohsiung 2010: First International Share/Transport Forum Message-ID: <278301cb3021$c555ce20$50016a60$@britton@ecoplan.org> Paris, Friday, 30 July, 2010 I thought you might like to have this early heads up and invitation to collaboration. I tried to get ti on one page but failed horribly. And so it goes. But let this not cool your ardor for more and better sharing in transport. Regards, Eric Britton ____________ First International Share/Transport Forum - Kaohsiung City, Taiwan - 16 - 19 September 2010 "Why would you buy a cow, if all you want is a glass of milk? In some of the world's most successful and livable cities, we are already entering into a world of new mobility practices that are changing the transportation landscape. It has to do with sharing, as opposed to outright ownership. The City of Kaohsiung, together with an international team from the Chinese Institute of Transport (CIT) and the New Mobility Partnerships, is organizing a three-day international forum to take place from 16 - 19 September 2010, in which professionals working at the leading edge of sustainable transport innovations are coming together, to examine together the concept and practice of sharing transport in the 21st century, and to discuss future applications for Share/Transport in Taiwan, China, Asia and beyond. Who should attend this year's conference? . Researchers, city administration, operators, activists, NGOs, students, consultants, media, large public sector employers, and suppliers or products, technology and services to the sector o Coming from Taiwan, China, South-East Asia and all others interested in knowing more about share/transport o Language: Chinese/English. Full translation of all sessions . Click here for 2010 conference brochure and invitation - www.k2010-sum.sharetransport.org . See www.kaohsiung.sharetransport.org or www.kaohsiung-sharetransport.com.tw (Chinese) for full information The World Share/Transport Forum International Collaboration and exchange - Opportunities and invitations Kaohsiung 2010 This is a continuing international program -- the Kaohsiung conference is intended to be the opening shot in a series of collaborative initiatives in support of transport sharing that are set to take place in the months and several years ahead. Here are some of the collaborative currents which may interest you and concerning which we should be most pleased to hear from you. . Working papers and reports covering the topics under discussion are welcome and will be selectively shared with the conference . Shared/resources: We are developing a shared library of resources and program information on the full range of topics under discussion (see website for clarification). You are invited to inspect and add to there. . Journal of record: World Streets is the journal of record for the World Share/Transport Forum and the Kaohsiung 2010 Conference. You can check it out http://worldstreets.wordpress.com/category/sharing/. If you have ideas for articles, contact the editor at editor@worldstreets.org . Languages - The conference is in English and Chinese with simultaneous translation of all sessions. Some may find use in the Google Translate buttons that have been incorporated into each page of the site, offering useful (for some) one click rough translations into 18 languages. . Young Researchers/Future Leaders project: This could be an important project component as you will see on the introductory section on the site. But there is very little time. We need to find the resources for these "backpack" fellowships. We have plenty of excellent candidates and it would be great to find the means to bring them to Kaohsiung. Any ideas for us about financing and other forms of support? . Sponsors: We are on the lookout for sponsors to lend a hand with various aspects of the program. One of these is to cover the costs of the Young Researchers, as well as to help people working in these areas in their own countries in the developing world to come to Kaohsiung and listen, and learn with us. New Mobility is a two way street. . Round Tables: We are already discussing the possibility of several Regional, National or City Round Tables, building on the base which has thus far been created. Would you be interested in discussing? . 2011 World Conference. We already are discussing the 2011 conference and are looking for collaborators and hosts? Any ideas for us? If you have questions or suggestions, kindly contact eric.britton@newmobility.org or Skype newmobility. Kindly think to share this posting with your colleagues, lists and others who share our interests and concerns. Team work! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/png Size: 33957 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20100730/374c885e/attachment.png From jcmota at ua.pt Sat Jul 31 08:11:21 2010 From: jcmota at ua.pt (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Carlos_Mota?=) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 00:11:21 +0100 Subject: [sustran] 'No Economic Recovery Without Cities!' Civic Campaign Message-ID: <635E02F4213A4DED934ABF9A818E3345@clients.ua.pt> [apologies for cross-postings] At a time when a significant number of European countries are facing severe economic problems, the civic initiative 'No Economic Recovery Without Cities', developed under the spirit of the United Nations "World Urban Campaign" (http://www.unhabitat.org/categories.asp?catid=634 ), arrives as a challenge to artists, businessmen, researchers and professionals who 'work with cities', as well as institutions and communities, to think collectively about the significant role cities play in the social and economic development of Europe. The first step of this 'civic challenge' was the creation of a Facebook Group (http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/group.php?gid=141669395860771&ref=ts ) meant to be the "meeting point" to share innovative experiences ('good practice') in different aspects of urban policy/ planning under the following thematic issues: (1)Urban Space, (2) Arts & Culture, (3) Mobility, (4) Environment & Green Spaces, (5) Climate Change, (6) Ageeing. The goal of the Group is to inspire other experiences, deepen the dialogues between diverse communities and stimulate collective learning in order to ensure that the role and dynamic nature of cities in Europe have a visible and positive impact on the social and territorial cohesion, civic empowerment and economic recovery of all European nations. Join the Project today and send your civic contribution! 'No Economic Recovery Without Cities!' Civic Campaign http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/group.php?gid=141669395860771&ref=ts From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Sat Jul 31 19:27:07 2010 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric britton) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 12:27:07 +0200 Subject: [sustran] "Old Mobility = mechanical solutions to biological problems. " Message-ID: <029b01cb309a$f0264d90$d072e8b0$@britton@ecoplan.org> I like this and while by itself it may not move the earth I would like to invite your comments and suggestions on this image which, self evident though it may seem, some of us at least may find of use from time to time(at least I would like to think that). In a conversation yesterday with Katherine Freund of ITNAmerica, during which we were discussing her possible volunteer participation in the forthcoming World Share/Transport Forum in Kaohsiung next month, the conversation rolled around as to the reasons why the narrow binomial choices which seem inevitably to frame the transport policy issues/choices in most places - i.e., either spend money to help cars or public transit as the two main options - are destined to fail. And in the process we eventually worked our way around to the phrase . . . ? Old Mobility = Tries to fashion basically mechanical solutions to deal with what are in fact biological or organic problems. * I like it because I feel that it gives us in a nutshell an explanation for why we are failing so badly in the sector. Without wishing to be disrespectful to anyone in particular (we are all in any event prisoners of our pasts), is it reasonable to say this? The older generations of experts, institutions, and problems solvers are locked into mainly mechanistic approaches and ways of thinking: i.e., here is the problem we face, here is how we are going to fix it, and off we go. Solve problem, and then go fishing. But when and if we shift over to new mobility thinking, what we have come to understand is that we are not going to "fix" the problem or problems, because it is not their nature nor that of complex interactive systems to be "fixed" in this sense. Rather we are ready to work with them over time within a more complex strategic frame, try this or that here of there, use 21st century feedback systems and logistics to get a flow of information about actual performance and impacts, and then tweak as infinitum. If it sounds like nurturing a child, it is no coincidence. I hope this is not to muddled to exclude understanding and that there may be something here eventually useful and at least worthy of your comments. Eric Britton PS. Of as Lao-Tzu just may have said: "How can a man, riding on an ox, looking for an ox, ever find an ox?" PPS. One of my Chinese colleagues who is working with us on the Kaohsiung project, said that she felt this approach has parallels with the tradition of foot-binding of women in ancient China -??. A mechanical solution to a biological problem.