[sustran] Re: Give cyclist a safety wing

Rutul Joshi joshirutul at yahoo.co.in
Wed Aug 25 21:22:38 JST 2010


Hi Carlos,

Yes, I agree with you take on it. The WW2 comparison is not relevant. It was a 
bit impulsive. 

However, are there any studies which say that wearing reflective 
bands/high-visibility clothing increases the road safety for the cyclists?

Rutul



________________________________
From: Carlosfelipe Pardo <carlosfpardo at gmail.com>
Cc: Sustran-discuss List <Sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org>
Sent: Wed, 25 August, 2010 12:00:00 PM
Subject: [sustran] Re: Give cyclist a safety wing

  Hi,

I also used that outfit when I cycled in London, and actually continue 
to use it here in Bogotá though nobody wears anything similar (they all 
have reflective bands). I used it then and use it now (especially the 
jacket) because of rain issues, not so much with the visibility 
argument. I think it's more like a small fashion statement in London, 
sort of like "I am riding a bike"...I know, they also have a bike 
between their legs which makes it kind of obvious for everyone to see 
what they're doing... I'm not sure if we can compare this with WW2! But 
anyway, it's a useful discussion.

Carlos.

On 23/08/2010 12:00 p.m., Rutul Joshi wrote:
> Hi,
>
> This is interesting. But I have a slightly different take on this. I am
> not critiquing Chu Wa's design but making a general comment on the state of
> affairs in our cities.
>
> I am a new cyclist in Bristol (which UK's 'first cycling city' - I don't know
> what it means). Imitating the people around me, I have also started wearing
> high-visibility clothing/bands (and a helmet) - which I am told is for my own
> safety. I have always wondered as a cyclist that why do I need to wear things
> and shout that "I am here, please see me". What have I done wrong? I might be 
>an
> outsider to the culture here but I am not comfortable with this whole idea of
> high-visible clothing/bands. Of course, they are no legal requirements to wear
> them. When I see lot of cyclists (including me) wearing them, I end
> up associating it with the identification marks that Jews were supposed to 
wear
> in the Nazi occupied countries during the second world war. I might be wrong 
in
> this association completely but the sad truth remains - it is the cyclists who
> end up wearing things in name of safety!
>
> Rutul
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: CarlosfelipePardo<carlosfpardo at gmail.com>
> Cc: Sustran-discuss List<Sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org>
> Sent: Mon, 23 August, 2010 6:45:23 AM
> Subject: [sustran] Re: Give cyclist a safety wing
>
>    Hi,
>
> This is very interesting! I am also wondering how much the "minimum"
> drag actually is, which I guess you'll know from your tests. But also, I
> think cyclists don't really need to clean the air as they anyway "do so"
> by riding the bicycle already... what I mean is that I think the concept
> of the wing should be symbolic (i.e. it doesn't really need to have
> filters etc but just remind people that bicycles don't have exhausts or
> emissions when riding). I say it because in your slides you seem to
> point towards car users being angry at cyclists for not paying road tax
> (which they do in virtually all countries anyway, despite the blatant
> ignorance of motorists), so possibly reminding them of the benefits that
> each cyclists gives to a city in terms of emissions not generated is
> most significant and should be applauded.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Carlos.
>
> On 21/08/2010 05:47 p.m., chuwa wrote:
>> Hi Ian,
>>
>> Thanks for being the first to response. Your question give me the opportunity
>> to
>> elaborate on the idea:
>>
>> How much drag is there on the cyclist?
>> - The air drag of the wing for slower cyclist is minimum. The wing is not
>> suitable for fast roadies. It is intended to make "Potential" cyclists to be
>> more comfortable on the road, knowing that they are now more visible to other
>> car drivers.
>>
>> There is less space for others and overtaking by other cyclists becomes
>> more hazardous?
>> - The size of the wing as presented can be adjusted to make it less 
obtrusive.
>> The structure of the wing is soft and flexible. When it is in contact with a
> by
>> passing cyclist or car, it should just give way a glides smoothly.
>>
>> Road tax when it exists can never pay for the cost of roads (construction
>> and maintenance ) but it is a deep believe for many drivers.
>> The intention of the air-filter is to bring the issue of
>> car-induced-air-pollution up for public discussion - hopefully it bring out
>> other car-induced-social burden along the way.
>>
>> I will be testing out prototypes soon. If interested I will share the finding
>> here.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Chuwa
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Ian Perry<ianenvironmental at googlemail.com>
>> Cc: Sustran-discuss List<Sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org>
>> Sent: Sat, August 21, 2010 9:12:24 PM
>> Subject: [sustran] Re: Give cyclist a safety wing
>>
>> Hi ChuWa,
>>
>> This is an interesting idea.  Has this been tested in windy conditions and
>> how much drag is there on the cyclist?  I'd be worried about being blown
>> backwards in strong winds.  In the event of a strong gust of crosswind, what
>> happens to the cyclist, and any other cyclist alongside them?  Does the
>> "Cyclist Wing" make it more difficult for other cyclists to use the road -
>> as there is less space for others and overtaking by other cyclists becomes
>> more hazardous?
>>
>> There are similar products already such as "safety" flags:
>> http://americansafetyflag.com/products-page/?category=20&product_id=36
>>
>>
>> Cyclists on the street space that motorists believe is theirs do need to
>> take ownership of a larger area than many do to be safe.  I think it is
>> possible that people who are afraid to use a bicycle on the road would feel
>> more comfortable on a larger cargo tricycle.
>>
>> n the UK, most motorists believe that they have a right to use the road
>> because the have paid "Road Tax".  I have had a car for 20 years, but I have
>> never paid "Road Tax".  I'm not illegal, Winston Churchill abolished "Road
>> Tax" in the UK in 1937 - because the tax was not making enough to cover the
>> cost of roads.  It might be worth checking if "Road Tax" really exists in
>> your country.  In the UK we have Vehicle Excise Duty, not Road Tax.
>> <http://americansafetyflag.com/products-page/?category=20&product_id=36>
>>
>> As for the air filter - does a cyclist really want to collect and take home
>> the pollution of others?
>>
>> Ian
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 6:21 PM, chuwa<chuwasg at yahoo.com>   wrote:
>>
>>> As an entry for the Seoul Cycle Design competition. The Cyclist Cyclist
>>> Wing is
>>> short-listed for the 2nd round.
>>>
>>> Summary of the concept:
>>> Cyclist safety is one of the main concern that stop potential cyclist to
>>> choose
>>> bicycle as a mode of transportation.
>>> Many drivers, and some cyclist, believe that cyclist enjoy the road at the
>>> expenses of road tax paying car-owners.
>>> Low visibility is associated with poor safety of cyclist.  Since cyclist is
>>> relatively small, slow and near invisible to the drivers.
>>> The “Cyclist Wing” enhance cyclist visibility and safety on the road. From
>>> the
>>> driver’s perspective, the “Wing” makes cyclist becomes 300% more visible,
>>> and
>>> therefore easier to avoid.
>>> “Safety by number” is an important factor supported by a large body of
>>> research
>>> finding. In short, More cyclist = more safety for cyclist .
>>> The “Wing” makes the visual population of cyclist in any city increased to
>>> 300%
>>> with the same number of cyclists, causing driver to drive more carefully.
>>> The Cyclist wing is with a built-in air filter. With the air-cleaning
>>> function
>>> of the “Wing”, cyclists make a tangible contribution to the environment, at
>>> the
>>> same time return the right-of-way to cyclist.
>>> it is also a subtle reminder of the harmful pollution from cars.
>>> Do you think the “Cyclist Wing” can help to tilt the favor towards cyclists
>>> and
>>> turn more potential cyclist into real cyclist.
>>> ChuWa
>>> An urban cyclist.
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