[sustran] Re: Pricing public transit: learning from Bangkok

[Carlosfelipe Pardo]

 From living in Bangkok in 2005, I would say the best mode of transport 
(not the cleanest, but the best) are the motorboats on the canals. If 
Bangkok would "unearth" the rivers it has underground and developed a 
real water-based transport system, it may be less expensive and more 
efficient than many others.

Incidentally, the river boats have similar routes to the Skytrain (on 
the klong behind Sukkumvit at least), at 8 baht (20 us cent) for along 
ride and 4 Baht (10 US cent) for a short ride (Bangkokians may confirm).

And yes, the BTS is for tourists and visitors.

Best regards,

Carlosfelipe Pardo
Coordinador de Proyecto- Project Coordinator
GTZ - Proyecto de Transporte Sostenible (SUTP, SUTP-LAC)
Cl 93A # 14-17 of 708
Bogotá D.C., Colombia
Tel/fax:  +57 (1) 236 2309  Mobile: +57 (3) 15 296 0662
carlos.pardo at gtz.de        www.gtz.de
(carlos.pardo at sutp.org   www.sutp.org )



Lee Schipper wrote:
> My daughter lives near the Skytrain, which makes her apartment very
> accessible.. but others laughed and said "the Skytrain is for tourists
> and students". Whatever, it works for journeys along the corridor. Her
> building sends a shuttle, actually a small golf cart, to pick up
> visitors and residents for the last 750 meters.
>
> When moving there from a nearby hotel ona Saturday afternoon with
> baggage I made a mistake and took a cab. Took 50 minutes because of
> horrible traffic and one way streets. Skytrain would have taken 10 mins
> walk plus 4 minute ride. But I would have had to haul my bags up three
> stories of stairs because the sky train stop near my hotel did not have
> a lift or escalator, at least not one I could find.
>
> As for the metro, I'm told Thais do not like to ride underground, pure
> and simple.
>
> The real issue is in Yasmin's cost figures --- How much money would it
> cost to put in enough Skytrain and other rail lines to blanket the city?
> And what good would it do without real restraints on individual vehicle
> use -- widescale congestion pricing etc.
>
> Lee Schipper
> EMBARQ Fellow
> EMBARQ the WRI Center for  Sustainable Transport
> www.embarq.wri.org
>
> and
>
> Visiting Scholar,
> Univ of Calif Transport Center
> Berkeley CA
> www.uctc.net
> skype: mrmeter
> 510 642 6889
> 202 262 7476
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org at list.jca.apc.org
> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org at list.jca.apc.org] On
> Behalf Of eric.britton
> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 8:08 AM
> To: Sustran Resource Centre; NewMobilityCafe at yahoogroups.com
> Cc: shovan1209 at yahoo.com; gerardn at rhd.gov.bd
> Subject: [sustran] Pricing public transit: learning from Bangkok
>
> From: Saiful Alam [mailto:shovan1209 at yahoo.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, 14 February 2008 15:03
>
>
>
>  
>
> Pricing public transit:  learning from Bangkok
>
> Yasmin Chowdhury
>
> When I first visited Bangkok in 1994, I got around the city mostly by
> bus.
> The buses were slow, the streets congested, and I soon learned that I
> could
> only make one plan for the morning and one for the afternoon, as it
> might
> take a couple hours to move about.
>
> Then the city started to build their skytrain.  I waited with great
> anticipation for its completion.  It seemed to require a lot more time
> and a
> lot more money (OK, just two years of delay and three times over budget)
> than originally anticipated, and the fares are admittedly quite high,
> but it
> was finally built-if never finished.  (I saw an article in a Thai
> newspaper
> about people very upset that the planned line to their area had never
> been
> built; meanwhile, the pilings leading to the now domestic-only airport
> have
> been converted into advertising posts.)
>
> To be quite honest, I love the skytrain.  Sure, the cement structure
> looming
> overhead is ugly.  Sure, most of the stations lack escalators, making
> them
> inaccessible to those in wheelchairs, and exceedingly difficult for
> those
> lugging heavy bags or luggage.  Sure, the two lines only cover a very
> limited portion of Bangkok.  Sure, it's expensive.  Sure, despite all
> the
> hassles, the trains are often packed.  Sure, the stations are congested
> and
> I sometimes have to push through people to reach my train.  But at least
> I
> can see a little of the city while I travel, and I can now get around to
> the
> stops on the line quickly, allowing myself to visit far more places in a
> day.
>
> Though the skytrain certainly makes moving around the city much easier
> (if
> you can afford it), it obviously didn't alleviate the congestion, as the
> government then opened a very limited subway system.  The first time I
> tried
> to ride it, about a year after it opened, it was closed for two weeks
> due to
> an accident.  I finally rode it a couple years after that, and
> discovered
> that it cost about US$0.50 to ride what it would take me ten minutes to
> walk.  That seemed outrageous, and I don't love riding up and down long
> escalators and traveling in tunnels.  Since the Metro doesn't seem to go
> much beyond the skytrain, I stick to the skytrain.
>
> But now, after spending billions of dollars on those mass transit
> systems,
> and despite having an existing extensive bus system, and more roads than
> most Asian cities of their level of economic development, the government
> is
> now planning bus rapid transit-a bit like a street-level trolley, but
> with
> buses instead of trams.  Of course, that too is delayed-but the cost is
> a
> fraction of that for the skytrain and Metro.
>
> A more careful look at those costs reveals something interesting and of
> considerable relevance as Dhaka plans its public transit system.
> According
> to various Web sites, the skytrain, which opened in 1999, cost about
> US$1.5
> billion for 24 kilometers.  That amounts to US$62.5 million per
> kilometer.
> Of course, things were cheaper back then.  
>
> Construction of the Metro began back in 1996, but it wasn't finished
> until
> 2004.  According to Wikipedia, "The project suffered multiple delays not
> only because of the 1997 economic crisis, but also due to challenging
> civil
> engineering works of constructing massive underground structures deep in
> the
> water-logged soil upon which the city is built."  Interesting.
> Fortunately
> we don't have those troubles in Dhaka (ahem!).
>
> As for cost, the Metro cost a mere US$ 2.75 billion for 21 km, or
> US$130.95
> million per kilometer-just over twice that of the skytrain.  Apparently
> burrowing underground, dealing with flooding issues, providing
> ventilation,
> and so on is much more expensive than building above our heads.
> Meanwhile,
> again quoting Wikipedia, "ridership has settled down to around 180,000
> riders daily - considerably lower than projections of over 400,000,
> despite
> fares being slashed in half from 12-38 baht to 10-15 baht per trip. As
> of
> 2006, fares range between 14-36 baht per trip."  With an exchange rate
> as I
> write of 32 baht to one US dollar, that's a mighty high fare.  Good
> thing
> Bangladeshis are wealthier than Thais (??).
>
> Meanwhile, the anticipated cost for the BRT is 33.4 million for 36
> kilometers.  Admittedly, anticipated costs are often far less than
> actual
> costs, but still, at US$0.93 million per kilometer, that's a bargain
> compared to the Metro or the skytrain-even more so when considering it's
> being built last, when prices are highest.  At 67 times less than the
> skytrain and 141 times less than the Metro, even with significant cost
> increases, it will still be far more affordable than its public transit
> predecessors.
>
> Of course, operational costs are another issue.  Buses require fuel,
> trains
> electricity.  Buses tend to require more maintenance, tires wear down
> frequently, and buses have to be replaced far more often than trains.
> While
> it is cheaper to build a BRT system initially, the higher operational
> costs
> might mean that, in the long term, a tram system would be more
> affordable-tram meaning street-level light rail, not something up in the
> sky
> or underground, which greatly multiplies the costs.
>
> Which is all to say, I'm all for public transit.  So, apparently, are
> Thais:
> last I checked, hotels and housing advertise their proximity to the
> various
> public transit options.  Apparently people are sick and tired of sitting
> in
> cars stuck in traffic jams.  In public transit, you can sit back and
> read a
> book while you ride, look out the window (preferably not at tunnels),
> eavesdrop on your neighbor's conversation, and otherwise amuse yourself
> without risking crashing into someone once the traffic moves again.
>
> But when considering spending millions or billions on public transit, it
> would make sense to invest it wisely, in a system that will be the most
> extensive and least expensive, and thus offer the best value for the
> money.
> At 141 times per kilometer less to build BRT than Metro, we could both
> have
> a far more extensive system, meeting far more people's needs, and lower
> fares.  Sounds like a bargain to me!
>
>  
>
>
>
> Syed Siful Alam Shovan 
> shovan1209 at yahoo.com 
>
>   
>
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