From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Tue May 1 23:54:23 2007 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (Eric Britton) Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 16:54:23 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Rural Police in India tackling women's harassment Message-ID: Dear Gatnet colleagues For your interest: Women at their work place, while commuting in buses or walking on roads or at home are often subjected to harassment. To ascertain such harassment and to take appropriate action, the Pune Rural police is all set to conduct a survey armed with a questionnaire. Read more at http://cities.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=234135 Best wishes Kate Kate Czuczman IFRTD Secretariat kate.czuczman@ifrtd.org Dgroups is a joint initiative of Bellanet, DFID, Hivos, ICA, IICD, OneWorld, UNAIDS --- You are currently subscribed to gatnet as: eric.britton@ecoplan.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-gatnet-181845K@dgroups.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070501/6128f578/attachment.html From edelman at greenidea.info Wed May 2 08:29:07 2007 From: edelman at greenidea.info (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory) Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 01:29:07 +0200 Subject: [sustran] BBRT - Bikes on BRT Message-ID: <4637CD43.8000600@greenidea.info> Hi, I think it is clear to most of us that combining BRT with bicycles creates a better replacement for cars than either by itself, and there are of course other advantages besides replacement mobility. While the biggest piece of pubic transport and bicycle intermodality is bicycle parking, and it is good if shared bicycles are also considered, the ability to take one's own bike on PT is also useful. The bicycle on bus front rack is used in hundreds of systems in the USA and Canada.... *From Hampton Roads Transit, Virginia (Flash): ** From the Port Authority of Allegheny County *(*Windows Media Player;* Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania and surroundings): * From Charlotte, North Carolina (Real Player, click on ?view demo?): * ... and each rack costs less than one bus tyre, but this would not work on Transmillenio-type BRT as the front of the bus is not accessible. SO, it seems like it would be good to be able to take bikes inside the buses (or light rail, metro, etc.) but there could be a problem with space. How about if when a city implements a BRT system (meaning dozens or more new buses, infrastructure, expanded depot, etc) it also buys thousands of FOLDING bikes all at the same time - taking advantage of economies of scale - and then sells to these bikes to its riders at or near cost? (Or less than cost with subsidies). There could also be payment plans, where technologically possible. What do people think? Could you all let me know what prices would be acceptable to purchase bikes in various cities? Thanks, T -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman edelman@greenidea.info Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net From spicycles at velo.info Tue May 1 01:36:36 2007 From: spicycles at velo.info (SPICYCLES) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:36:36 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Spicycles Mid Term Seminar Message-ID: <88172cb26111a8597006699f001556ba@velo.info> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070430/a2f5fdd7/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: invitation.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 214265 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070430/a2f5fdd7/invitation.pdf From edelman at greenidea.info Wed May 2 22:31:37 2007 From: edelman at greenidea.info (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory) Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 15:31:37 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Delhi Metro to treble in size in three years Message-ID: <463892B9.5030009@greenidea.info> Delhi Metro to treble in size in three years Delhi Metro has set itself an extremely demanding challenge: to treble the size of the network in time for the Indian capital to host the Commonwealth Games in October 2010. *David Briginshaw *reports from Delhi on how this will be achieved. -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman edelman@greenidea.info Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net From carlos.pardo at sutp.org Thu May 3 00:31:36 2007 From: carlos.pardo at sutp.org (Carlos F. Pardo) Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 10:31:36 -0500 Subject: [sustran] Re: BBRT - Bikes on BRT In-Reply-To: <4637CD43.8000600@greenidea.info> References: <4637CD43.8000600@greenidea.info> Message-ID: <4638AED8.9090706@sutp.org> Todd, Your idea sounds pretty good. Regarding folding bikes, I wouldn't really think this is feasible. The cheapest folding bicycle I've seen is 60 euro (in Beijing, almost straight from the dealer), and it didn't seem to be really good quality. Mine was 200 euro and was the cheapest good one. So I think this would be out. However, I would actually encourage the system to buy bikes for the city as a whole, which shoul be given to citizens on a suscription basis (many cities have done this, and Paris has just started a huge project). These bikes can be made locally (you can do a cheap one in Bogot? for around 25 euro, single gear), and will not have the problem of taking up space from inside the bus. If you convince the PT system that this will really increase their catchment area (e.g. the distance from which people will arrive at the station), they may actually pay for the bikes and possibly take care of the operation of the bike-lending... and build safe bicycle parking areas. Other small companies could also take the job of operating the bike-lending. Best regards, Carlos F. Pardo Coordinador de Proyecto- Project Coordinator GTZ - Proyecto de Transporte Sostenible (SUTP, SUTP-LAC) Cl 93A # 14-17 of 708 Bogot? D.C., Colombia Tel/fax: +57 (1) 236 2309 Mobile: +57 (3) 15 296 0662 carlos.pardo@sutp.org www.sutp.org Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory wrote: > Hi, > > I think it is clear to most of us that combining BRT with bicycles > creates a better replacement for cars than either by itself, and there > are of course other advantages besides replacement mobility. While the > biggest piece of pubic transport and bicycle intermodality is bicycle > parking, and it is good if shared bicycles are also considered, the > ability to take one's own bike on PT is also useful. > > The bicycle on bus front rack is used in hundreds of systems in the USA > and Canada.... > > > > *From Hampton Roads Transit, Virginia (Flash): > ** > From the Port Authority of Allegheny County *(*Windows Media Player;* > Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania and surroundings): > * > From Charlotte, North Carolina (Real Player, click on ?view demo?): > * > > ... and each rack costs less than one bus tyre, but this would not work > on Transmillenio-type BRT as the front of the bus is not accessible. > > SO, it seems like it would be good to be able to take bikes inside the > buses (or light rail, metro, etc.) but there could be a problem with space. > > How about if when a city implements a BRT system (meaning dozens or more > new buses, infrastructure, expanded depot, etc) it also buys thousands > of FOLDING bikes all at the same time - taking advantage of economies of > scale - and then sells to these bikes to its riders at or near cost? (Or > less than cost with subsidies). There could also be payment plans, where > technologically possible. > > What do people think? Could you all let me know what prices would be > acceptable to purchase bikes in various cities? > > Thanks, > T > > -------------------------------------------- > > Todd Edelman > Director > Green Idea Factory > > Korunn? 72 > CZ-10100 Praha 10 > Czech Republic > > ++420 605 915 970 > ++420 222 517 832 > Skype: toddedelman > > edelman@greenidea.info > > Green Idea Factory, > a member of World Carfree Network > www.worldcarfree.net > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). > > > __________ NOD32 2233 (20070501) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > > > From edelman at greenidea.info Thu May 3 01:58:54 2007 From: edelman at greenidea.info (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory) Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 18:58:54 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Re: BBRT - Bikes on BRT In-Reply-To: <4638AED8.9090706@sutp.org> References: <4637CD43.8000600@greenidea.info> <4638AED8.9090706@sutp.org> Message-ID: <4638C34E.1030202@greenidea.info> Carlos F. Pardo wrote: > Todd, > > Your idea sounds pretty good. Regarding folding bikes, I wouldn't > really think this is feasible. The cheapest folding bicycle I've seen > is 60 euro (in Beijing, almost straight from the dealer), and it > didn't seem to be really good quality. Mine was 200 euro and was the > cheapest good one. So I think this would be out. OKAY, well jumping ahead, there could still be folding bikes for people who want to pay more. But it is not just status but more flexibility. I see that this could be a problem is systems that try to de-status things. > > However, I would actually encourage the system to buy bikes for the > city as a whole, which shoul be given to citizens on a suscription > basis (many cities have done this, and Paris has just started a huge > project PARIS did not buy bikes. One huge advertising company did, and in trade it gets dominance in advertising spaces, to advertise things like cars, support objectification of women, and so on. At least it is visual pollution, which is often anti-people. I think a bad trade off. > ). These bikes can be made locally (you can do a cheap one in Bogot? > for around 25 euro, single gear), HILLS! HILLS! I see hills, our single-gear bikes can't make it!! > and will not have the problem of taking up space from inside the bus. TAKING folding bikes inside PT is becoming a standard in many places, and it is only discouraged unintentionally by the fact that folding bikes are more expensive. > If you convince the PT system that this will really increase their > catchment area (e.g. the distance from which people will arrive at the > station), they may actually pay for the bikes and possibly take care > of the operation of the bike-lending... and build safe bicycle parking > areas. Other small companies could also take the job of operating the > bike-lending. RIGHT. I think the operation of all the pieces can be done by who does it best. Another important element is that the bikes themselves are part of "the look" of the system. So the colours are the same, the name too (e.g. "Transmilleniociclo") and it always shown in marketing with the mother or core vehicle. SO the thing is that this is best if not added on later to a project, but part of the first studies and so on. Who knows, the amount of projected income an increased reach brings might convince the decision makers to implement light rail! No, that was not my intention with this. I am not a puppet of Siemens, Alstom, Bombardier, Skanska, Suez... or Volvo Bus! And not the bicycle lobby, either! - T > > Best regards, > > Carlos F. Pardo > Coordinador de Proyecto- Project Coordinator > GTZ - Proyecto de Transporte Sostenible (SUTP, SUTP-LAC) > Cl 93A # 14-17 of 708 > Bogot? D.C., Colombia > Tel/fax: +57 (1) 236 2309 Mobile: +57 (3) 15 296 0662 > carlos.pardo@sutp.org www.sutp.org > > > Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I think it is clear to most of us that combining BRT with bicycles >> creates a better replacement for cars than either by itself, and >> there are of course other advantages besides replacement mobility. >> While the biggest piece of pubic transport and bicycle intermodality >> is bicycle parking, and it is good if shared bicycles are also >> considered, the ability to take one's own bike on PT is also useful. >> >> The bicycle on bus front rack is used in hundreds of systems in the >> USA and Canada.... >> >> >> >> >> *From Hampton Roads Transit, Virginia (Flash): >> ** >> From the Port Authority of Allegheny County *(*Windows Media >> Player;* Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania and surroundings): >> * >> From Charlotte, North Carolina (Real Player, click on ?view demo?): >> * >> >> ... and each rack costs less than one bus tyre, but this would not >> work on Transmillenio-type BRT as the front of the bus is not >> accessible. >> >> SO, it seems like it would be good to be able to take bikes inside >> the buses (or light rail, metro, etc.) but there could be a problem >> with space. >> >> How about if when a city implements a BRT system (meaning dozens or >> more new buses, infrastructure, expanded depot, etc) it also buys >> thousands of FOLDING bikes all at the same time - taking advantage of >> economies of scale - and then sells to these bikes to its riders at >> or near cost? (Or less than cost with subsidies). There could also be >> payment plans, where technologically possible. >> >> What do people think? Could you all let me know what prices would be >> acceptable to purchase bikes in various cities? >> >> Thanks, >> T >> >> -------------------------------------------- >> >> Todd Edelman >> Director >> Green Idea Factory >> >> Korunn? 72 >> CZ-10100 Praha 10 >> Czech Republic >> >> ++420 605 915 970 >> ++420 222 517 832 >> Skype: toddedelman >> >> edelman@greenidea.info >> >> Green Idea Factory, >> a member of World Carfree Network >> www.worldcarfree.net >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT >> NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. >> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss >> to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The >> yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post >> to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it >> seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. >> >> ================================================================ >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing >> countries (the 'Global South'). >> >> __________ NOD32 2233 (20070501) Information __________ >> >> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> > -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman edelman@greenidea.info Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net From rivera at iss.nl Thu May 3 20:54:52 2007 From: rivera at iss.nl (Roselle Rivera) Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 13:54:52 +0200 Subject: [sustran] SEXUAL HARASSMENT IN PUBLIC TRANSPORT IN THE PHILIPPINES In-Reply-To: <20070502030131.2BBD32DE6F@mx-list.jca.ne.jp> References: <20070502030131.2BBD32DE6F@mx-list.jca.ne.jp> Message-ID: May I share with you the abstract of a a recent study by my student in the Philippines about sexual harassment in public transport. Maybe we can replicate this in other Asian settings. We worked closely wih various grassroot women's organizations. transport groups and trade unions. ROSELLE LEAH K RIVERA PhD Fellow Human Resource and Local Development Staff Group Institute of Social Studies Kortenaerkade 12 2518 AX The Hague, Netherlands Office Tel: +31 70 4260428 Fax: +31 70 4260507 Mobile: +31 627315444 Please refer to: http://www.iss.nl/content/view/full/2873 for ISS? email disclaimer. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070503/e8e6d4ba/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: abstract.doc Type: application/msword Size: 28672 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070503/e8e6d4ba/abstract.doc From kate.czuczman at ifrtd.org Thu May 3 22:16:03 2007 From: kate.czuczman at ifrtd.org (Kate Czuczman) Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 14:16:03 +0100 Subject: [sustran] Re: SEXUAL HARASSMENT IN PUBLIC TRANSPORT IN THE PHILIPPINES In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200705031300.CSW16832@c2bthomr11.btconnect.com> Dear Roselle Many thanks for sharing this abstract with us, I would be interested to read the full study if it is available? The issue of sexual harassment came up strongly in some recent small studies on rural transport safety carried out by IFRTD members in Peru and Cameroon. The studies included transport security within their definition of safety, and sexual harassment was shown to influence women and girl children's mobility in terms of modal choice and affordability - safer seats are generally the more expensive seats. It can also influence ability to travel when harassment takes the form of bribery i.e sexual favors demanded in exchange for seats. The issue is also shown to be applicable to the use of transport infrastructure for example women were shown to be vulnerable to harassment when using tracks and paths. The Cameroon study in particular highlights some of the coping mechanisms that women have had to develop to address the security risks they face when traveling eg. pooling resources and asking one man to purchase goods for them. The full studies and a synthesis are available here: http://www.ifrtd.org/new/proj/r_trans_safe.php I am copying this reply to the Gatnet Gender, Equity and Transport email discussion list as I think many of its members would be interested in your abstract and may have other studies and ideas to share. If you are not already a member of Gatnet you can find out more at www.dgroups.org/groups/worldbank/gatnet and if you would like to join please let me know and I will subscribe you. With best wishes Kate Kate Czuczman Editor and Communications Coordinator International Forum for Rural Transport and Development (IFRTD) kate.czuczman@ifrtd.org _____ From: Roselle Rivera [mailto:rivera@iss.nl] Sent: 03 May 2007 11:55 To: sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org Cc: kate.czuczman@ifrtd.org Subject: SEXUAL HARASSMENT IN PUBLIC TRANSPORT IN THE PHILIPPINES May I share with you the abstract of a a recent study by my student in the Philippines about sexual harassment in public transport. Maybe we can replicate this in other Asian settings. We worked closely wih various grassroot women's organizations. transport groups and trade unions. ROSELLE LEAH K RIVERA PhD Fellow Human Resource and Local Development Staff Group Institute of Social Studies Kortenaerkade 12 2518 AX The Hague, Netherlands Office Tel: +31 70 4260428 Fax: +31 70 4260507 Mobile: +31 627315444 Please refer to: http://www.iss.nl/content/view/full/2873 for ISS' email disclaimer. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070503/2d9439f4/attachment.html From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Fri May 4 00:35:27 2007 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (Eric Britton) Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 17:35:27 +0200 Subject: [sustran] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Transantiago_-_Is_this_a_project_of_whic?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?h_we_all_need_to_know_more=3F?= Message-ID: I have been getting a number of requests from people and groups asking if I can help them get a handle on the Transantiago project, and recently someone ? might it have been you Lloyd? ? said that it would be a good idea if we created some kind of repository of information or references which might help in an informed and neutral way. One idea that comes to mind would be to invite all of those of you who have good knowledge on what is going on to jump in and help make the entries in both the English and Spanish versions of Wikipedia more authoritative, accurate and complete. The Spanish profile is at http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transantiago and looks to me to be a fine beginning, and this despite the fact that one of the ?editors? has challenged it authenticity and neutrality (NPOV). I copy below the shorter English version from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transantiago to give you a whiff of what they think it?s all about. At the very least it strikes me as a cautionary tale, and certainly one that is worthy of the attention of those of us who may harbor ambitious ideas about how to bring on the New Mobility Agenda. And I am sure that some of our friends in the sutp-lac group will have some interesting observations and references to add to this. Eric Britton Transantiago >From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation , search This article documents a current event . Information may change rapidly as the event progresses. An articulated bus of the new Transantiago system An articulated bus of the new Transantiago system Transantiago is the public transport system that serves Santiago , capital city of Chile . It was introduced on 10 February 2007 , replacing the previous chaotic system run by thousands of independent bus operators. The system works by combining local bus lines, main bus lines and the Metro (subway) network. It includes an integrated fare system, which allows passengers to make bus-to-bus or bus-to-metro transfers for the price of one ticket, using a single contactless smartcard . Transantiago's implementation has been problematic. Some of the bus companies have not put out the required fleet in operation, making the bus headway irregular and generating large crowds and long queues outside Metro stations and bus stops. The fleet management software (which includes the use of GPS ) has not been implemented. Segregated bus corridors have also not been constructed and "paid zones" have been improvised. The lack of trust by users in the bus system has overcrowded the Metro. There is also criticism of a lack of line coverage in the citiy's peripheral areas, which were well covered under the previous system. Contents [ hide ] * 1 Details * 1.1 Objectives * 1.2 New lines structure * 1.3 New fare structure * 1.4 Payment system and finance administration * 1.5 Users' information * 2 Vehicles * 2.1 Technical characteristics of the vehicles * 3 Problems and criticism * 4 References * 5 External links [ edit ] 1 Details Transantiago's first stage of implementation began on 22 October 2005 , when a group of ten new companies took control of the capital's bus system, immediately introducing 1,181 new modern low-floor buses (approximately half of them being articulated ) made by Volvo in Brazil , replacing 461 yellow-colored buses from the old system. The new buses will temporarily coexist with the over 7,000 existing older buses, that will be gradually withdrawn from the system until 2010. In October 2006 a users' information system was introduced. Transantiago became fully operational on 10 February 2007 by the introduction of a new route system dividing bus lines into two complementary groups: main and local lines. In addition, a new fare structure was implemented, allowing transfers at small or zero fares between buses and metro, when using the new contactless smartcard . 1,776 new buses will operate at this stage. The older yellow-colored (now painted over) buses will only operate through the secondary local lines in conjunction with new but simpler buses. It is expected that by 2010 , the older buses will be completely replaced by over 4,600 new vehicles. [ edit ] 1.1 Objectives * Encouraging the use of public transport . * Enhancing the quality of public transport, eliminating the on-the-street competition and replacing the existing bus fleet. * Palliating the city's high air pollution and sound pollution levels by reducing the number of buses from over 7,000 to about 4,600, and by reducing the emission levels of the buses. * Reducing travel times. [ edit ] 1.2 New lines structure Bus services were divided into two subsystems. The first subsystem corresponds to the main bus lines , which complementing the metro network allow long trips between different zones of the city. The second subsystem corresponds to the local (or feeder) bus lines, which allow short trips and feed the metro and main bus lines. Local services are organized in ten units , each of one corresponding to one or more municipalities of Santiago. A Santiago Centro B Conchal? , Huechuraba , Independencia , Quilicura , Recoleta , Renca C Las Condes , Lo Barnechea , Providencia , Vitacura D La Reina , Macul , ?u?oa , Pe?alol?n E La Florida , La Granja F Puente Alto G El Bosque , La Cisterna , La Pintana , San Bernardo , San Ram?n H Lo Espejo , Pedro Aguirre Cerda , San Joaqu?n , San Miguel I Cerrillos , Estaci?n Central , Maip? J Cerro Navia , Lo Prado , Pudahuel , Quinta Normal Map of the zones of Transantiago The details of both the main bus lines and the local bus lines can be seen in the official maps and route descriptions . [ edit ] 1.3 New fare structure An integrated fares scheme was introduced for buses and metro, allowing to transfer for free or paying a small transfer charge. During the first six months of operation, up to three transfers are completely free. The definitive fare scheme considers two basic fares (local and main fares), in addition to the transfer fares. The local fare will allow local trips inside a local area, also allowing free transfers between local services in that area. The main fare will be a little higher and will allow trips both in the main bus lines and metro, including free transfers between them. Finally, a transfer fare will have to be paid when transferring between a main bus service (or metro) and a local service. This transfer fare will be much smaller than the basic fares. As was before, students will be allowed to pay reduced fares, at 35% of the normal ones. Fares will be adjusted periodically, according to the changes in the main input prices (fuel, etc.) of the operators. The way in which the fare adjustments is calculated has been established in the operation contracts. Therefore, neither operators nor the authorities are able to change the fares at will. [ edit ] 1.4 Payment system and finance administration The main payment system of Transantiago is a contactless smartcard called tarjeta Bip! similar to the Multivia card, which was previously operated by the metro. This card is used both in buses and metro as a prepaid card. The access to the reduced or free transfer fares is only possible when using this card, as the electronic system associated to the card automatically recognizes if the user is starting his trip or just making a transfer. In this way, the system can decide if the basic fare has to be charged or if a transfer or free fare applies. Passengers who do not have the card may pay in cash (only in feeder buses), but a higher fare without possibility of reduced transfers. The operation of the payment system was tendered to a private company. Its main tasks are the distribution and charging of the card, the administration of the revenues and the payment to the operators, according to the rules established in the contracts. [ edit ] 1.5 Users' information Another component of the system is the information manager and users' information provider, which was tendered and awarded to the private company Tata Consultancy Services Chile in 2006. Its main tasks are: provide information for the users both before and after the implementation of the system, provide information about the localization of the buses to the operators and coordinate emergencies with the relevant bodies. [ edit ] 2 Vehicles Until 2010 there will be both new Transantiago-standard and old buses in operation. In comparison to the old buses of Santiago, at least half the new ones have a low floor, and all have a blocking system that does not allow the movement of the bus before all doors are closed. Since 2003, all new buses in Santiago fulfill the emission norm Euro III . After the implementation of the new lines structure, the main bus lines will be operated with articulated (18 meters long) and normal buses, while the local services will be operated with normal buses and minibuses. [ edit ] 2.1 Technical characteristics of the vehicles Most of the low-floor buses for Transantiago were built by Volvo . Several operating companies of Transantiago bought 1,157 articulated buses B9SALF and 510 normal (12 meters long) buses B7RLE . The articulated B9SALF Volvo bus has a capacity of approximately 160 passengers, four double doors, 100% low floor, a length of 18.5 meters and a width of 2.5 meters. The engine is on the left side between the first and second axles (i.e. behind the driver) and 340hp hp . (More technical information can be found in the technical specifications of the Volvo B9SALF .) The Volvo B7RLE bus, with a capacity of approximately 80 passengers, has three double doors and low floor between the first and second doors. It has a length of 12 meters and a wide of 2.5 meters. The engine is in the back of the vehicle and has 7,000 cm?. (Additional technical information can be found in the technical specifications of the Volvo B7RLE .) [ edit ] 3 Problems and criticism There are several problems with the design and implementation of the plan. Bus owners' contracts offer no incentive to improve service; they receive a fixed payment no matter how many passengers they transport. The centralized system for controlling frequency of buses is not working (the GPS system is non-operational), which was a main point in the original design. Passenger fare evasion is high (30% or more). Many people consider the service to be poor and are not willing to pay for it. Others are taking advantage of the situation. Routes were poorly defined. For example, when the system launched, there weren't bus stops by many hospitals. Although polls have shown the citizens of Santiago were overwhelmingly in favor of a new transport system [1] , its implementation was heavily criticized for not meeting up to people's expectations. The system's first days in operation were chaotic at many of the bus stops, since there were not enough buses to cope with the demand. Additionally, many complained that the old bus routes were easier and faster, a claim confirmed to an extent in an investigation by El Mercurio , which found that most of the new routes took more time than the ones in the older system. Politicians in both sides of the political spectrum ?from Communist Party Secretary General Guillermo Tellier to right-wing UDI deputy Iv?n Moreira ? criticized the implementation of the new system, labeling it "improvised" and "unprofessional." Support for President Michelle Bachelet 's government in Santiago fell from 55.2% in February to 42.7% in March , after the Transantiago began operating, according to the monthly Adimark polls. Political analysts attributed the fall solely to the Transantiago, saying that there is no other possible cause for the dramatic fall in support [2] . A poll taken by Benchmark agency, requested by the opposition, showed that 47% did not approve of the implementation of Transantiago, 64% labeled the implementation as "improvised", and 53% disapproved of the way President Bachelet handled the situation. Many people have also blamed former president Ricardo Lagos , because it was his government that was responsible for the system's design. One consequence of Transantiago is that the Metro system, which was to be a backbone of the system, has been overwhelmed with over six users per square meter. The increase in usage was reported by La Tercera on 21 March 2007 as having increased from 1,300,000 to 2,200,000 and Metro president Blas Tomic was quoted as saying: "The capacity of metro has reached its limit" and recommended that the elderly and users with medical conditions stay off the system. The government has defended the plan as necessary for a better transport system, adding it will improve as people become more used to it, adding everything is being done to improve it. [ edit ] 4 References * Gschwender, Antonio (2005) Improving the urban public transport in developing countries: the design of a new integrated system in Santiago de Chile. 9th Conference of Competition and Ownership in Land Transport (Thredbo9), Lisbon, Portugal. * Minteguiaga, Jorge (2006) Transantiago: redesigning public transport in Santiago, Chile. Public Transport International, 55, 6/2006, 16-19. ISSN-1016-796X. 1. ^ http://www.atinachile.cl/content/view/4713 2. ^ http://www.emol.com/noticias/nacional/detalle/detallenoticias.asp?idnoticia= 248232 [ edit ] 5 External links * Official site of Transantiago (Spanish) * Transantiago Chile: Educational and Analytical Information (Spanish) * Full Official map of Transantiago (Spanish) * Official site of the contactless smartcard tarjeta Bip! (Spanish) * Study from CEP Chile - Santiago Buses: From Public Enemy to Public Service (Spanish) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070503/07c7ccd4/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: not available Type: application/octet-stream Size: 307 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070503/07c7ccd4/attachment-0003.bin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/octet-stream Size: 49917 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070503/07c7ccd4/attachment-0004.bin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/octet-stream Size: 18201 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070503/07c7ccd4/attachment-0005.bin From rivera at iss.nl Fri May 4 16:14:22 2007 From: rivera at iss.nl (Roselle Rivera) Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 09:14:22 +0200 Subject: [sustran] BBC: The Boeing 737 stuck in city road Message-ID: something (amusing/very bothering?) on transport. Bad and irresponsible planning? or planned tourist attraction? ** The Boeing 737 stuck in city road ** Residents of the Indian city of Mumbai (Bombay) are wondering how long it will take to remove a disused Boeing 737 that has been abandoned in a busy road. < http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/2/hi/south_asia/6620461.stm > ** BBC Daily E-mail ** Choose the news and sport headlines you want - when you want them, all in one daily e-mail < http://www.bbc.co.uk/email > ** Disclaimer ** The BBC is not responsible for the content of this e-mail, and anything written in this e-mail does not necessarily reflect the BBC's views or opinions. Please note that neither the e-mail address nor name of the sender have been verified. If you do not wish to receive such e-mails in the future or want to know more about the BBC's Email a Friend service, please read our frequently asked questions. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/help/4162471.stm Please refer to: http://www.iss.nl/content/view/full/2873 for ISS? email disclaimer. ROSELLE LEAH K RIVERA PhD Fellow Human Resource and Local Development Staff Group Institute of Social Studies Kortenaerkade 12 2518 AX The Hague, Netherlands Office Tel: +31 70 4260428 Fax: +31 70 4260507 Mobile: +31 627315444 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070504/f9fcdc65/attachment.html From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Fri May 4 18:18:03 2007 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (Eric Britton) Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 11:18:03 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Rewarding New Mobility Initiatives World Wide Message-ID: Paris, Friday, May 04, 2007 Dear Friends, As many of you here know we are strong supporters of any device, event or award that brings attention to path-breaking New Mobility initiatives anywhere in the world that can make a difference in their communities ? and especially those that demonstrate techniques and tools that can be put to work quickly, cheaply, wisely and well in other places. Over the last years we have, with the help and support of many of our international colleagues including perhaps you yourself, managed to get international recognition for people and projects that are serving to break the old patterns and stasis that is presently choking our planet and the daily lives of many, including the poorest and most vulnerable. And we think that in each case this in its own small way is helping to make a difference and helping to encourage and support at least some people and some places in their heroic efforts to do something about our present and most unsatisfactory, dangerous and unfair mobility and access arrangements. So when we find ways to get high profile international recognition for the path-breaking work of heroes (the word is not too strong) like Hans Monderman, John Gehl, and Enrique Pe?alosa, Ken Livingstone and London?s heroic (like it or not) effort to break the ice on road pricing, Mayor Lee Myung-Bak of Seoul for his teams ?restoration technology? efforts to green their transport system, outstanding carsharing projects like Caisse-Commune (Paris), Greenwheels (Netherlands), Co-operative Auto Network (Vancouver), Nordic Carshare (Helsinki), City CarShare (San Francisco), Walk to School programs in many places, and all of the vast work of the Stockholm Partnerships for Sustainable Cities that has brought recognition and honor to more than 220 projects world wide ? well, we think that this is an effort which really needs to go on. But it?s a cooperative deal, and what I am writing to you about this morning is in an attempt to collect your ideas and suggestions for programs, awards, and other forms of recognition that we might be able to put our combined efforts to work on. I best make this one point clear first however ? and that is that our quest at this point is not for nominations of people and projects that are deserving of such international recognition, because we really follow the field quite closely and indeed have many many ideas already on this, No, at this particular point what we are looking for specifically are your suggestions for programs and awards that we should know about in order to make these outstanding ventures known. Names, addresses, URLs, contact points and people, and all that we need to know to get down to work. Also, if you want to lend a hand in this, it would be great to hear from you about that as well. Since this is primarily about New Mobility ideas and projects, may I suggest that our future discussions of this be carried out under the Idea Factory of the New Mobility Agenda ( http://newmobility.org , top menu), and to address your suggestions and counsel on this the correct address would be NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com . One never knows where this sort of thing will take us, but my guess is that it is the right thing to do. Eric Britton -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070504/8bf93b48/attachment.html From carlos.pardo at sutp.org Fri May 4 22:42:03 2007 From: carlos.pardo at sutp.org (Carlos F. Pardo) Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 08:42:03 -0500 Subject: [sustran] Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <463B382B.100@sutp.org> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070504/a3017c87/attachment.html From madhav.g.badami at mcgill.ca Fri May 4 23:00:29 2007 From: madhav.g.badami at mcgill.ca (Madhav Badami, Prof.) Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 10:00:29 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques In-Reply-To: <463B382B.100@sutp.org> Message-ID: <45AEE06A4800AF4FAD8BEF09C433D85F0213ED59@EXCHANGE2VS2.campus.mcgill.ca> Dear Carlos, Once the craziness of the academic term comes to an end, I promise a detailed response to Jonathan Richmond's (and others') postings on the situation in India (and what we can and ought to do about it). I will try and work elephants, cows and yoga -- but not planes -- into my response as well :-). Meanwhile, I will leave you with this personal viewpoint ... India is like life itself -- joyous, sometimes sublime, and at the very same time, very messy, even obscene, but never ever dull and boring. Madhav ************************************************************************ "As for the future, your task is not to foresee, but to enable it." Antoine de Saint-Exupery Madhav G. Badami, PhD School of Urban Planning and McGill School of Environment McGill University Macdonald-Harrington Building 815 Sherbrooke Street West Montreal, QC, H3A 2K6, Canada Phone: 514-398-3183 (Work); 514-486-2370 (Home) Fax: 514-398-8376; 514-398-1643 URLs: www.mcgill.ca/urbanplanning www.mcgill.ca/mse e-mail: madhav.badami@mcgill.ca ________________________________ From: sustran-discuss-bounces+madhav.g.badami=mcgill.ca@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+madhav.g.badami=mcgill.ca@list.jca.apc.o rg] On Behalf Of Carlos F. Pardo Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 9:42 AM To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Subject: [sustran] Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques We had the chance to be in India (Delhi, Chandigarh, Pune) last week, working in a BRT training course with the SUTP project, ITDP and World Bank (which was very useful). Parallel to the workshop I would go walking around to see these cities. This news from a plane in the middle of a road reminded me of some other issues I saw: - A mosque as wide as the sidewalk (Delhi), "blocking" the way for pedestrians, - An elephant walking on a major arterial, - The typical cows in roundabouts or roads, - The classic situation of the "chaotic" Indian intersection. This has all made me think deeper about the recent discussion started by J. Richmond. Is it institutions? Is it a deeply culturally rooted characteristic of Indians? Is it religion, yoga or whatever? I bought a book on Indian culture which I've started reading to see if I find any answers. I would really like to hear from people in India their point of view on why they think this happens. Being from Colombia, I'm completely lost trying to understand this. Best regards, Carlos Roselle Rivera wrote: something (amusing/very bothering?) on transport. Bad and irresponsible planning? or planned tourist attraction? ** The Boeing 737 stuck in city road ** Residents of the Indian city of Mumbai (Bombay) are wondering how long it will take to remove a disused Boeing 737 that has been abandoned in a busy road. < http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/2/hi/south_asia/6620461.stm > ** BBC Daily E-mail ** Choose the news and sport headlines you want - when you want them, all in one daily e-mail < http://www.bbc.co.uk/email > ** Disclaimer ** The BBC is not responsible for the content of this e-mail, and anything written in this e-mail does not necessarily reflect the BBC's views or opinions. Please note that neither the e-mail address nor name of the sender have been verified. If you do not wish to receive such e-mails in the future or want to know more about the BBC's Email a Friend service, please read our frequently asked questions. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/help/4162471.stm Please refer to: http://www.iss.nl/content/view/full/2873 for ISS' email disclaimer. ROSELLE LEAH K RIVERA PhD Fellow Human Resource and Local Development Staff Group Institute of Social Studies Kortenaerkade 12 2518 AX The Hague, Netherlands Office Tel: +31 70 4260428 Fax: +31 70 4260507 Mobile: +31 627315444 __________ NOD32 2238 (20070503) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com ________________________________ -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). __________ NOD32 2238 (20070503) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070504/bf8a3c04/attachment.html From martincassini at blueyonder.co.uk Fri May 4 23:33:48 2007 From: martincassini at blueyonder.co.uk (Martin Cassini) Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 15:33:48 +0100 Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques In-Reply-To: <45AEE06A4800AF4FAD8BEF09C433D85F0213ED59@EXCHANGE2VS2.campus.mcgill.ca> Message-ID: <005201c78e59$3a38c120$b83a2352@mc> May I second Madhav's delightful point? As some of you know, my frustration is with too much traffic regulation, which in my view is counterproductive, makes roads dangerous and hostile, where the very restraints - which go against the grain of human nature - set the stage for conflict and congestion. I love what I see when lights are out of action and there are no external controls - congestion dissolving, courtesy thriving, everyone merging in a merry mix of meandering movement, and the emergence of a new hierarchy, with vulnerable road-users at the top. Perhaps there is an elegant compromise to be found - some midway point between India and England ... priority rules and regimented controls dropped in favour of natural cooperation, where might is not right, and we adopt 1Q, denoting single queueing and innate intelligence. Martin www.goodfun.tv -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca. apc.org] On Behalf Of Madhav Badami, Prof. Sent: 04 May 2007 15:00 To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques Dear Carlos, Once the craziness of the academic term comes to an end, I promise a detailed response to Jonathan Richmond's (and others') postings on the situation in India (and what we can and ought to do about it). I will try and work elephants, cows and yoga -- but not planes -- into my response as well :-). Meanwhile, I will leave you with this personal viewpoint ... India is like life itself -- joyous, sometimes sublime, and at the very same time, very messy, even obscene, but never ever dull and boring. Madhav ************************************************************************ "As for the future, your task is not to foresee, but to enable it." Antoine de Saint-Exupery Madhav G. Badami, PhD School of Urban Planning and McGill School of Environment McGill University Macdonald-Harrington Building 815 Sherbrooke Street West Montreal, QC, H3A 2K6, Canada Phone: 514-398-3183 (Work); 514-486-2370 (Home) Fax: 514-398-8376; 514-398-1643 URLs: www.mcgill.ca/urbanplanning www.mcgill.ca/mse e-mail: madhav.badami@mcgill.ca _____ From: sustran-discuss-bounces+madhav.g.badami=mcgill.ca@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+madhav.g.badami=mcgill.ca@list.jca.apc.o rg] On Behalf Of Carlos F. Pardo Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 9:42 AM To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Subject: [sustran] Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques We had the chance to be in India (Delhi, Chandigarh, Pune) last week, working in a BRT training course with the SUTP project, ITDP and World Bank (which was very useful). Parallel to the workshop I would go walking around to see these cities. This news from a plane in the middle of a road reminded me of some other issues I saw: - A mosque as wide as the sidewalk (Delhi), "blocking" the way for pedestrians, - An elephant walking on a major arterial, - The typical cows in roundabouts or roads, - The classic situation of the "chaotic" Indian intersection. This has all made me think deeper about the recent discussion started by J. Richmond. Is it institutions? Is it a deeply culturally rooted characteristic of Indians? Is it religion, yoga or whatever? I bought a book on Indian culture which I've started reading to see if I find any answers. I would really like to hear from people in India their point of view on why they think this happens. Being from Colombia, I'm completely lost trying to understand this. Best regards, Carlos Roselle Rivera wrote: something (amusing/very bothering?) on transport. Bad and irresponsible planning? or planned tourist attraction? ** The Boeing 737 stuck in city road ** Residents of the Indian city of Mumbai (Bombay) are wondering how long it will take to remove a disused Boeing 737 that has been abandoned in a busy road. < http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/2/hi/south_asia/6620461.stm > ** BBC Daily E-mail ** Choose the news and sport headlines you want - when you want them, all in one daily e-mail < http://www.bbc.co.uk/email > ** Disclaimer ** The BBC is not responsible for the content of this e-mail, and anything written in this e-mail does not necessarily reflect the BBC's views or opinions. Please note that neither the e-mail address nor name of the sender have been verified. If you do not wish to receive such e-mails in the future or want to know more about the BBC's Email a Friend service, please read our frequently asked questions. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/help/4162471.stm Please refer to: http://www.iss.nl/content/view/full/2873 for ISS' email disclaimer. ROSELLE LEAH K RIVERA PhD Fellow Human Resource and Local Development Staff Group Institute of Social Studies Kortenaerkade 12 2518 AX The Hague, Netherlands Office Tel: +31 70 4260428 Fax: +31 70 4260507 Mobile: +31 627315444 __________ NOD32 2238 (20070503) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com _____ -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). __________ NOD32 2238 (20070503) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070504/ff2ee992/attachment.html From richmond at alum.mit.edu Fri May 4 23:56:38 2007 From: richmond at alum.mit.edu (Jonathan E. D. Richmond) Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 10:56:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques In-Reply-To: <45AEE06A4800AF4FAD8BEF09C433D85F0213ED59@EXCHANGE2VS2.campus.mcgill.ca> References: <45AEE06A4800AF4FAD8BEF09C433D85F0213ED59@EXCHANGE2VS2.campus.mcgill.ca> Message-ID: Great point, and in fact I don't see the occasional elephant, cow or unexpected mosque on the footpath as a problem -- quite the contrary, these are part of everyday life and offer pleasant distractions or even the opportunity to exchange salaam... This all adds vibrancy and life... The real problem lies in the corruption that prevents effective operation of transport systems -- which could certainly operate quite efficiently -- even accommodating elephants -- if properly managed. --Jonathan On Fri, 4 May 2007, Madhav Badami, Prof. wrote: > Dear Carlos, > > Once the craziness of the academic term comes to an end, I promise a > detailed response to Jonathan Richmond's (and others') postings on the > situation in India (and what we can and ought to do about it). I will > try and work elephants, cows and yoga -- but not planes -- into my > response as well :-). Meanwhile, I will leave you with this personal > viewpoint ... India is like life itself -- joyous, sometimes sublime, > and at the very same time, very messy, even obscene, but never ever dull > and boring. > > Madhav > > ************************************************************************ > > "As for the future, your task is not to foresee, but to enable it." > Antoine de Saint-Exupery > > Madhav G. Badami, PhD > School of Urban Planning and McGill School of Environment McGill > University Macdonald-Harrington Building > 815 Sherbrooke Street West > Montreal, QC, H3A 2K6, Canada > > Phone: 514-398-3183 (Work); 514-486-2370 (Home) > Fax: 514-398-8376; 514-398-1643 > URLs: www.mcgill.ca/urbanplanning > www.mcgill.ca/mse > e-mail: madhav.badami@mcgill.ca > > > ________________________________ > > From: sustran-discuss-bounces+madhav.g.badami=mcgill.ca@list.jca.apc.org > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+madhav.g.badami=mcgill.ca@list.jca.apc.o > rg] On Behalf Of Carlos F. Pardo > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 9:42 AM > To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport > Subject: [sustran] Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques > > > We had the chance to be in India (Delhi, Chandigarh, Pune) last week, > working in a BRT training course with the SUTP project, ITDP and World > Bank (which was very useful). Parallel to the workshop I would go > walking around to see these cities. This news from a plane in the middle > of a road reminded me of some other issues I saw: > > - A mosque as wide as the sidewalk (Delhi), "blocking" the way for > pedestrians, > - An elephant walking on a major arterial, > - The typical cows in roundabouts or roads, > - The classic situation of the "chaotic" Indian intersection. > > This has all made me think deeper about the recent discussion started by > J. Richmond. Is it institutions? Is it a deeply culturally rooted > characteristic of Indians? Is it religion, yoga or whatever? I bought a > book on Indian culture which I've started reading to see if I find any > answers. I would really like to hear from people in India their point of > view on why they think this happens. Being from Colombia, I'm completely > lost trying to understand this. > > Best regards, > > Carlos > > > Roselle Rivera wrote: > > > > something (amusing/very bothering?) on transport. > Bad and irresponsible planning? or planned tourist attraction? > > > > ** The Boeing 737 stuck in city road ** > Residents of the Indian city of Mumbai (Bombay) are wondering > how long it will take to remove a disused Boeing 737 that has been > abandoned in a busy road. > < http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/2/hi/south_asia/6620461.stm > > > > ** BBC Daily E-mail ** > Choose the news and sport headlines you want - when you want > them, all > in one daily e-mail > < http://www.bbc.co.uk/email > > > > ** Disclaimer ** > The BBC is not responsible for the content of this e-mail, and > anything written in this e-mail does not necessarily reflect the BBC's > views or opinions. Please note that neither the e-mail address nor name > of the sender have been verified. > > If you do not wish to receive such e-mails in the future or want > to know more about the BBC's Email a Friend service, please read our > frequently asked questions. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/help/4162471.stm > > Please refer to: http://www.iss.nl/content/view/full/2873 for > ISS' email disclaimer. > > > > ROSELLE LEAH K RIVERA > PhD Fellow > Human Resource and Local Development Staff Group > > Institute of Social Studies > Kortenaerkade 12 > 2518 AX > The Hague, Netherlands > Office Tel: +31 70 4260428 > Fax: +31 70 4260507 > Mobile: +31 627315444 > > __________ NOD32 2238 (20070503) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > > ________________________________ > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version > is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real > sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you > can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of > people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on > developing countries (the 'Global South'). > > > __________ NOD32 2238 (20070503) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > > ----- Jonathan Richmond 1 (617) 395-4360 e-mail: richmond@alum.mit.edu http://the-tech.mit.edu/~richmond/ From zvi at inro.ca Fri May 4 23:59:07 2007 From: zvi at inro.ca (Zvi Leve) Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 10:59:07 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques In-Reply-To: <45AEE06A4800AF4FAD8BEF09C433D85F0213ED59@EXCHANGE2VS2.campus.mcgill.ca> References: <45AEE06A4800AF4FAD8BEF09C433D85F0213ED59@EXCHANGE2VS2.campus.mcgill.ca> Message-ID: <463B4A3B.7000203@inro.ca> Carlos, I have enjoyed very much reading VS Naipul 's books about India. He is a well-known writer of 'travel literature' (he recently won the Nobel prize for literature) and has a very good perception of cultural issues. He is of Indian descent, but has never lived in India, although he has travelled there extensively. I have read his books Among the Believers: An Islamic Journey , which is about his travels in the Islamic areas of Asia (including India and Pakistan), and also India: A Million Mutinies Now , which is only about India. I think that he has newer material about these areas as well. He is very opinionated and not everyone appreciates his views, but I think that he is an excellent writer. One of these days I hope to make it over there myself.... Best regards, Zvi Madhav Badami, Prof. wrote: > Dear Carlos, > > Once the craziness of the academic term comes to an end, I promise a > detailed response to Jonathan Richmond's (and others') postings on the > situation in India (and what we can and ought to do about it). I will > try and work elephants, cows and yoga -- but not planes -- into my > response as well :-). Meanwhile, I will leave you with this personal > viewpoint ... India is like life itself -- joyous, sometimes sublime, > and at the very same time, very messy, even obscene, but never ever > dull and boring. > > Madhav > > ************************************************************************ > > "As for the future, your task is not to foresee, but to enable it." > Antoine de Saint-Exupery > > Madhav G. Badami, PhD > School of Urban Planning and McGill School of Environment McGill > University Macdonald-Harrington Building > 815 Sherbrooke Street West > Montreal, QC, H3A 2K6, Canada > > Phone: 514-398-3183 (Work); 514-486-2370 (Home) > Fax: 514-398-8376; 514-398-1643 > URLs: www.mcgill.ca/urbanplanning > www.mcgill.ca/mse > e-mail: madhav.badami@mcgill.ca > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* > sustran-discuss-bounces+madhav.g.badami=mcgill.ca@list.jca.apc.org > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+madhav.g.badami=mcgill.ca@list.jca.apc.org] > *On Behalf Of *Carlos F. Pardo > *Sent:* Friday, May 04, 2007 9:42 AM > *To:* Global 'South' Sustainable Transport > *Subject:* [sustran] Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques > > We had the chance to be in India (Delhi, Chandigarh, Pune) last week, > working in a BRT training course with the SUTP project, ITDP and World > Bank (which was very useful). Parallel to the workshop I would go > walking around to see these cities. This news from a plane in the > middle of a road reminded me of some other issues I saw: > > - A mosque as wide as the sidewalk (Delhi), "blocking" the way for > pedestrians, > - An elephant walking on a major arterial, > - The typical cows in roundabouts or roads, > - The classic situation of the "chaotic" Indian intersection. > > This has all made me think deeper about the recent discussion started > by J. Richmond. Is it institutions? Is it a deeply culturally rooted > characteristic of Indians? Is it religion, yoga or whatever? I bought > a book on Indian culture which I've started reading to see if I find > any answers. I would really like to hear from people in India their > point of view on why they think this happens. Being from Colombia, I'm > completely lost trying to understand this. > > Best regards, > Carlos > > > Roselle Rivera wrote: >> >> * >> something (amusing/very bothering?) on transport. >> Bad and irresponsible planning? or planned tourist attraction? >> * >> >> >> ** The Boeing 737 stuck in city road ** >> Residents of the Indian city of Mumbai (Bombay) are wondering how >> long it will take to remove a disused Boeing 737 that has been >> abandoned in a busy road. >> < http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/2/hi/south_asia/6620461.stm > >> >> >> ** BBC Daily E-mail ** >> Choose the news and sport headlines you want - when you want them, all >> in one daily e-mail >> < http://www.bbc.co.uk/email > >> >> >> ** Disclaimer ** >> The BBC is not responsible for the content of this e-mail, and >> anything written in this e-mail does not necessarily reflect the >> BBC's views or opinions. Please note that neither the e-mail address >> nor name of the sender have been verified. >> >> If you do not wish to receive such e-mails in the future or want to >> know more about the BBC's Email a Friend service, please read our >> frequently asked questions. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/help/4162471.stm >> >> Please refer to: http://www.iss.nl/content/view/full/2873 for ISS' >> email disclaimer. >> >> >> >> ROSELLE LEAH K RIVERA >> PhD Fellow >> Human Resource and Local Development Staff Group >> >> Institute of Social Studies >> Kortenaerkade 12 >> 2518 AX >> The Hague, Netherlands >> Office Tel: +31 70 4260428 >> Fax: +31 70 4260507 >> Mobile: +31 627315444 >> >> __________ NOD32 2238 (20070503) Information __________ >> >> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >> http://www.eset.com >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. >> >> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. >> >> ================================================================ >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). >> >> >> __________ NOD32 2238 (20070503) Information __________ >> >> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >> http://www.eset.com >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070504/5cf553f8/attachment.html From sksunny at gmail.com Sat May 5 00:04:44 2007 From: sksunny at gmail.com (Sunny) Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 22:04:44 +0700 Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques In-Reply-To: <005201c78e59$3a38c120$b83a2352@mc> References: <005201c78e59$3a38c120$b83a2352@mc> Message-ID: <463B4B8C.8020309@gmail.com> Yes Martin you are right but i surely doubt tht the concept of Shared Space to work in India. Lack of traffic regulations leads to many problems atleast in India. The other day in Pune I have seen a cyclist hit by a City Bus and the City bus did not stop. There has to be a reinstallation of thought in Indian mindset that cycles, rickshaws and transit are not degraded means of transportation. Yes we are prioritising in India but sadly the priority goes to the cars or motorbikes.and We also have vulnerable road-users at the top of our road deaths table. In my opinion segregation of traffic and then giving priority to Mass transit and Non motorised would be a start. Same time reducing the space available for personal "motorised" transport We have some nice photographs on our website (link below) from developing countries and they might interest you in seeing how the situation is in India. Sunny Sustainable Urban Transport Project www.sutp.org Martin Cassini wrote: > May I second Madhav's delightful point? As some of you know, my > frustration is with too much traffic regulation, which in my view is > counterproductive, makes roads dangerous and hostile, where the very > restraints - which go against the grain of human nature - set the > stage for conflict and congestion. I love what I see when lights are > out of action and there are no external controls - congestion > dissolving, courtesy thriving, everyone merging in a merry mix of > meandering movement, and the emergence of a new hierarchy, with > vulnerable road-users at the top. Perhaps there is an elegant > compromise to be found - some midway point between India and England > ... priority rules and regimented controls dropped in favour of > natural cooperation, where might is not right, and we adopt 1Q, > denoting single queueing and innate intelligence. > > Martin > www.goodfun.tv > > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* > sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca.apc.org > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca.apc.org] > *On Behalf Of *Madhav Badami, Prof. > *Sent:* 04 May 2007 15:00 > *To:* Global 'South' Sustainable Transport > *Subject:* [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques > > Dear Carlos, > > Once the craziness of the academic term comes to an end, I promise > a detailed response to Jonathan Richmond's (and others') postings > on the situation in India (and what we can and ought to do about > it). I will try and work elephants, cows and yoga -- but not > planes -- into my response as well :-). Meanwhile, I will leave > you with this personal viewpoint ... India is like life itself -- > joyous, sometimes sublime, and at the very same time, very messy, > even obscene, but never ever dull and boring. > > Madhav > > > From whook at itdp.org Fri May 4 23:25:15 2007 From: whook at itdp.org (Walter Hook) Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 10:25:15 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques In-Reply-To: <45AEE06A4800AF4FAD8BEF09C433D85F0213ED59@EXCHANGE2VS2.campus.mcgill.ca> Message-ID: <00e701c78e58$08b6c350$3601a8c0@DFJLYL81> I am very much in favour of these traffic calming devices and have suggested we incorporate the same on New York city streets. Far fewer pedestrians would be killed on 5th avenue if we had some nice hindu temples, cows, and elephants, in the middle of the road to slow down the vehicles encouraged to drive 55kph by greenwaved ATS. Best Walter -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of Madhav Badami, Prof. Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 10:00 AM To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques Dear Carlos, Once the craziness of the academic term comes to an end, I promise a detailed response to Jonathan Richmond's (and others') postings on the situation in India (and what we can and ought to do about it). I will try and work elephants, cows and yoga -- but not planes -- into my response as well :-). Meanwhile, I will leave you with this personal viewpoint ... India is like life itself -- joyous, sometimes sublime, and at the very same time, very messy, even obscene, but never ever dull and boring. Madhav ************************************************************************ "As for the future, your task is not to foresee, but to enable it." Antoine de Saint-Exupery Madhav G. Badami, PhD School of Urban Planning and McGill School of Environment McGill University Macdonald-Harrington Building 815 Sherbrooke Street West Montreal, QC, H3A 2K6, Canada Phone: 514-398-3183 (Work); 514-486-2370 (Home) Fax: 514-398-8376; 514-398-1643 URLs: www.mcgill.ca/urbanplanning www.mcgill.ca/mse e-mail: madhav.badami@mcgill.ca _____ From: sustran-discuss-bounces+madhav.g.badami=mcgill.ca@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+madhav.g.badami=mcgill.ca@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of Carlos F. Pardo Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 9:42 AM To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Subject: [sustran] Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques We had the chance to be in India (Delhi, Chandigarh, Pune) last week, working in a BRT training course with the SUTP project, ITDP and World Bank (which was very useful). Parallel to the workshop I would go walking around to see these cities. This news from a plane in the middle of a road reminded me of some other issues I saw: - A mosque as wide as the sidewalk (Delhi), "blocking" the way for pedestrians, - An elephant walking on a major arterial, - The typical cows in roundabouts or roads, - The classic situation of the "chaotic" Indian intersection. This has all made me think deeper about the recent discussion started by J. Richmond. Is it institutions? Is it a deeply culturally rooted characteristic of Indians? Is it religion, yoga or whatever? I bought a book on Indian culture which I've started reading to see if I find any answers. I would really like to hear from people in India their point of view on why they think this happens. Being from Colombia, I'm completely lost trying to understand this. Best regards, Carlos Roselle Rivera wrote: something (amusing/very bothering?) on transport. Bad and irresponsible planning? or planned tourist attraction? ** The Boeing 737 stuck in city road ** Residents of the Indian city of Mumbai (Bombay) are wondering how long it will take to remove a disused Boeing 737 that has been abandoned in a busy road. < http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/2/hi/south_asia/6620461.stm > ** BBC Daily E-mail ** Choose the news and sport headlines you want - when you want them, all in one daily e-mail < http://www.bbc.co.uk/email > ** Disclaimer ** The BBC is not responsible for the content of this e-mail, and anything written in this e-mail does not necessarily reflect the BBC's views or opinions. Please note that neither the e-mail address nor name of the sender have been verified. If you do not wish to receive such e-mails in the future or want to know more about the BBC's Email a Friend service, please read our frequently asked questions. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/help/4162471.stm Please refer to: http://www.iss.nl/content/view/full/2873 for ISS' email disclaimer. ROSELLE LEAH K RIVERA PhD Fellow Human Resource and Local Development Staff Group Institute of Social Studies Kortenaerkade 12 2518 AX The Hague, Netherlands Office Tel: +31 70 4260428 Fax: +31 70 4260507 Mobile: +31 627315444 __________ NOD32 2238 (20070503) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com _____ -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). __________ NOD32 2238 (20070503) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070504/bb01f4e5/attachment.html From sksunny at gmail.com Sat May 5 00:19:09 2007 From: sksunny at gmail.com (Sunny) Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 22:19:09 +0700 Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques In-Reply-To: <463B4A3B.7000203@inro.ca> References: <45AEE06A4800AF4FAD8BEF09C433D85F0213ED59@EXCHANGE2VS2.campus.mcgill.ca> <463B4A3B.7000203@inro.ca> Message-ID: <463B4EED.6020308@gmail.com> Dear Zvi, Since you like to read on Indian culture I would also recommend you a book by Amartya Sen it is called "The Argumentative Indian". I hope you will like it when you read it. cheers sunny Zvi Leve wrote: > Carlos, > > I have enjoyed very much reading VS Naipul > 's books about India. He is a > well-known writer of 'travel literature' (he recently won the Nobel > prize for literature) and has a very good perception of cultural > issues. He is of Indian descent, but has never lived in India, > although he has travelled there extensively. I have read his books > Among the Believers: An Islamic Journey > , > which is about his travels in the Islamic areas of Asia (including > India and Pakistan), and also India: A Million Mutinies Now > , which is > only about India. I think that he has newer material about these areas > as well. He is very opinionated and not everyone appreciates his > views, but I think that he is an excellent writer. > > One of these days I hope to make it over there myself.... > > Best regards, > > Zvi > > From sunny.enie at gmail.com Sat May 5 00:23:46 2007 From: sunny.enie at gmail.com (Sunny) Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 22:23:46 +0700 Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques In-Reply-To: <00e701c78e58$08b6c350$3601a8c0@DFJLYL81> References: <00e701c78e58$08b6c350$3601a8c0@DFJLYL81> Message-ID: <463B5002.9000506@gmail.com> Just to share with you all the jargon in some parts of India we call the animals on the road "Speed Breakers" or "Brake Inspectors". cheers sunny Walter Hook wrote: > > I am very much in favour of these traffic calming devices and have > suggested we incorporate the same on New York city streets. > > > > Far fewer pedestrians would be killed on 5^th avenue if we had some > nice hindu temples, cows, and elephants, in the middle of the road to > slow down the vehicles encouraged to drive 55kph by greenwaved ATS. > > > > Best > > Walter > From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Sat May 5 00:19:40 2007 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (Eric Britton) Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 17:19:40 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From edelman at greenidea.info Sat May 5 00:33:49 2007 From: edelman at greenidea.info (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory) Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 17:33:49 +0200 Subject: [sustran] World Carfree Network - Istanbul conference (27-31.8.2007) update and welcome Message-ID: <463B525D.2030000@greenidea.info> From Randy Ghent, International Coordination Centre, World Carfree Network: On behalf of World Carfree Network and our hosts, we are happy to invite you to join us in Istanbul for this year's Towards Carfree Cities VII conference, which will be held from August 27-31. We also wanted to update you on how things are going with the conference preparation. All the relevant information is at www.worldcarfree.net/conference/ or will be added there in the next couple of weeks. And of course we're awaiting your creative ideas to make the conference as fruitful as possible. Here's our report: VENUE Everything is arranged for using the Mimar Sinan Fine Arts University for all of our meetings, activities and for many of our meals. More info on the venue is already on the www.worldcarfree.net/conference/ website. We will be using the auditorium, the planning studio, the waterfront outdoor space and the cafeteria and caf?. Everything is arranged for the technical side: projectors, screens, etc.. FORMULA 1 RACE The Formula 1 Grand Prix car race will be in Istanbul on the weekend of August 25-26. Participants can come early to take part in an action against the race, to be organised by the Young Greens. The race will also have the effect of increasing hotel prices for this time, but only for four- and five-star hotels. ACCOMMODATION Participants need to book their own accommodation, as in past years. The web page www.worldcarfree.net/conference/accom.php will be updated in a week or two with various options. People should book as soon as possible. Our suggested budget option is Sultan Hostel (www.sultanhostel.com ), which has 110 beds. The three-star suggestion is Sebnem Hotel (www.sebnemhotel.net ), with 30 beds. If the Sebnem becomes full, they will help you book in the adjacent hotels of similar price/quality. All of these options are in the Old City (Sultanahmet), a few tram stops from the university. THEME / KEYNOTES As mentioned before and on the conference website, the theme is "Building a Livable Future in a Changing Climate," and this includes political, cultural, spatial and environmental change. In our preparation meetings this past week, we've decided that we'd like to invite three keynote speakers as follows: 1) a representative of the City of Paris (Denis Baupin?), to highlight the the city's various ambitious and innovative projects to reduce car dependence, improve accessibility for all, and increase livability for residents and visitors. 2) an initiator or coordinator of one of the new carfree developments that have been built in Europe, or someone else who can provide a good overview of existing carfree communities. 3) an urban planner who is developing a transport master plan for several cities in Turkey to enhance livability, who can also provide a good overview of the changing political climate among decision-makers If anyone has any more suggestions for keynote speakers, please send them to istanbul@worldcarfree.net . DEBATES AND STRATEGY SESSIONS So far we have several ideas for debates: 1) complete streets (see www.completestreets.org for more info) and shared space (see "shared space" entry in Wikipedia) concepts vs. pedestrianisation 2) mobility vs. proximity (to what extent should we prioritise movement vs. living in urban space allocation) 3) car culture vs. public space culture (for example, if drivers get free parking space, shouldn't carfree people also get space to do something?) 4) carbon offsetting (is it really possible to cancel out our climate impact by paying someone to cut emissions elsewhere?) 5) car-based vs. carfree lifestyle (health and environmental impacts) For strategy sessions we have so far four ideas: 1) organising carfree days 2) realising carfree developments and supporting policies 3) combating car advertising (and increasing carfree advertising) 4) improving the urban living environment (deep aesthetics, etc..) Again, if anyone would like to lead or participate in these sessions, or if you have other ideas, please contact istanbul@worldcarfree.net . PROGRAMME (IN GENERAL) This week we've finished the general framework for the programme, and will be uploading it to the website (www.worldcarfree.net/conference/programme.php ) within two weeks. The deadline for sending in your proposals is April 30, but please send them even if you must miss the deadline. See www.worldcarfree.net/conference/proposals.php for details. OUTREACH/PROMOTION We will make some promotional materials (leaflet, PDF, digital announcement) for the conference. We'd be happy if you could reprint or distribute this to your organisations' members or other contacts. The more that people hear about the conference, the better. You can also simply use the info that's already on the website, or refer people there. TRAVEL If you would like to travel by train with other conference participants, please use the carfree_network list to state your preferred travel dates/locations to connect with others travelling the same route. Looking forward to seeing you all in August, Randy and Kevser, in Istanbul -- Randall Ghent Membership & Conference Coordinator WORLD CARFREE NETWORK Kratka 26, 100 00 Prague 10 Czech Republic tel/fax: +(420) 274 810 849 skype: wcn-icc / randallghent rghent@worldcarfree.net -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman edelman@greenidea.info Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net From edelman at greenidea.info Sat May 5 00:36:00 2007 From: edelman at greenidea.info (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory) Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 17:36:00 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques In-Reply-To: <005201c78e59$3a38c120$b83a2352@mc> References: <005201c78e59$3a38c120$b83a2352@mc> Message-ID: <463B52E0.8060306@greenidea.info> Mr Cassini, It might interest you to know that the issue you discuss is one of the ideas for debate at Towards Carfree Cities in Istanbul late in August. Debate: "Complete streets (see www.completestreets.org for more info) and shared space (see "shared space" entry in Wikipedia) concepts vs. pedestrianisation" If you are interested in debating this or participating in some way please contact istanbul@worldcarfree.net I realise that Complete Streets and Shared Space are not the same thing. *** My own opinion, briefly, is that your concept of sharing without signals etc. is GREAT except that private automobiles are not sustainable on a global level and even carshare is not desirable as a long-term solution because of the way that cars ensure that streets remain solely in the job of fulfilling transport duties, rather than a traditional and I think better role to facilitate life between buildings, with transport not hindering this and only enabling it. To put it another way, a street full of cars with drivers acting politely as possible still dominates the scene, even if collisions go down (and I have seen the videos of Shared Space and believe they do. I really do agree that people need to make eye contact and so on. Signs are also ugly.). So, it is certainly better than the current situation but no long-term solution, or even a mid-term solution. But you also seem to say that it is the traffic signals which are making things difficult for polar bears, rather than the car traffic itself, no matter what speed it is operating at. This is really funny. Are you serious? It would be a fine system if there were no cars. In fact, this is the way it us 100-120 years ago. No signals, no signs, and no cars. So, I propose a compromise: No signals AND no cars. Hope to see you in Istanbul. If Mr. Irons can come too, it would be great, as long as he doesn't fly there. The polar bears would not approve. Or will you argue that airplanes should also not have restrictions? - T Martin Cassini wrote: > May I second Madhav's delightful point? As some of you know, my > frustration is with too much traffic regulation, which in my view is > counterproductive, makes roads dangerous and hostile, where the very > restraints - which go against the grain of human nature - set the > stage for conflict and congestion. I love what I see when lights are > out of action and there are no external controls - congestion > dissolving, courtesy thriving, everyone merging in a merry mix of > meandering movement, and the emergence of a new hierarchy, with > vulnerable road-users at the top. Perhaps there is an elegant > compromise to be found - some midway point between India and England > ... priority rules and regimented controls dropped in favour of > natural cooperation, where might is not right, and we adopt 1Q, > denoting single queueing and innate intelligence. > > Martin > www.goodfun.tv > > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* > sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca.apc.org > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca.apc.org] > *On Behalf Of *Madhav Badami, Prof. > *Sent:* 04 May 2007 15:00 > *To:* Global 'South' Sustainable Transport > *Subject:* [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques > > Dear Carlos, > > Once the craziness of the academic term comes to an end, I promise > a detailed response to Jonathan Richmond's (and others') postings > on the situation in India (and what we can and ought to do about > it). I will try and work elephants, cows and yoga -- but not > planes -- into my response as well :-). Meanwhile, I will leave > you with this personal viewpoint ... India is like life itself -- > joyous, sometimes sublime, and at the very same time, very messy, > even obscene, but never ever dull and boring. > > Madhav > > -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman edelman@greenidea.info Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net From martincassini at blueyonder.co.uk Sat May 5 00:58:16 2007 From: martincassini at blueyonder.co.uk (Martin Cassini) Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 16:58:16 +0100 Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques In-Reply-To: <463B52E0.8060306@greenidea.info> Message-ID: <007a01c78e65$073d7de0$b83a2352@mc> Lots to say and little time but in brief: my sympathies and analysis are pro-planet and pro-freedom of choice/movement, but not anti-car. Roughly speaking, traffic signals double congestion, journey times and fuel use (and they are responsible for much of the carnage on the roads), so until clean cars are widely available, e.g. the compressed air car from France/Spain, scrapping lights would bring an immediate and significant reduction in greenhouse gas emissions. Moreover, lights cost a fortune to manufacture, install, maintain and run. What is the cost to the grid of the UK's galaxy of 24-hour lights? Todd, I like your point about facilitating life between buildings, but I question the social engineering element in some of your proposals. If people want to go further afield and carry stuff or passengers, and go door-to-door, good luck to them! Martin -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca. apc.org] On Behalf Of Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory Sent: 04 May 2007 16:36 To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques Mr Cassini, It might interest you to know that the issue you discuss is one of the ideas for debate at Towards Carfree Cities in Istanbul late in August. Debate: "Complete streets (see www.completestreets.org for more info) and shared space (see "shared space" entry in Wikipedia) concepts vs. pedestrianisation" If you are interested in debating this or participating in some way please contact istanbul@worldcarfree.net I realise that Complete Streets and Shared Space are not the same thing. *** My own opinion, briefly, is that your concept of sharing without signals etc. is GREAT except that private automobiles are not sustainable on a global level and even carshare is not desirable as a long-term solution because of the way that cars ensure that streets remain solely in the job of fulfilling transport duties, rather than a traditional and I think better role to facilitate life between buildings, with transport not hindering this and only enabling it. To put it another way, a street full of cars with drivers acting politely as possible still dominates the scene, even if collisions go down (and I have seen the videos of Shared Space and believe they do. I really do agree that people need to make eye contact and so on. Signs are also ugly.). So, it is certainly better than the current situation but no long-term solution, or even a mid-term solution. But you also seem to say that it is the traffic signals which are making things difficult for polar bears, rather than the car traffic itself, no matter what speed it is operating at. This is really funny. Are you serious? It would be a fine system if there were no cars. In fact, this is the way it us 100-120 years ago. No signals, no signs, and no cars. So, I propose a compromise: No signals AND no cars. Hope to see you in Istanbul. If Mr. Irons can come too, it would be great, as long as he doesn't fly there. The polar bears would not approve. Or will you argue that airplanes should also not have restrictions? - T Martin Cassini wrote: > May I second Madhav's delightful point? As some of you know, my > frustration is with too much traffic regulation, which in my view is > counterproductive, makes roads dangerous and hostile, where the very > restraints - which go against the grain of human nature - set the > stage for conflict and congestion. I love what I see when lights are > out of action and there are no external controls - congestion > dissolving, courtesy thriving, everyone merging in a merry mix of > meandering movement, and the emergence of a new hierarchy, with > vulnerable road-users at the top. Perhaps there is an elegant > compromise to be found - some midway point between India and England > ... priority rules and regimented controls dropped in favour of > natural cooperation, where might is not right, and we adopt 1Q, > denoting single queueing and innate intelligence. > > Martin > www.goodfun.tv > > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* > sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca.apc.or > sustran-discuss-bounces+g > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jc > a.apc.org] > *On Behalf Of *Madhav Badami, Prof. > *Sent:* 04 May 2007 15:00 > *To:* Global 'South' Sustainable Transport > *Subject:* [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques > > Dear Carlos, > > Once the craziness of the academic term comes to an end, I promise > a detailed response to Jonathan Richmond's (and others') postings > on the situation in India (and what we can and ought to do about > it). I will try and work elephants, cows and yoga -- but not > planes -- into my response as well :-). Meanwhile, I will leave > you with this personal viewpoint ... India is like life itself -- > joyous, sometimes sublime, and at the very same time, very messy, > even obscene, but never ever dull and boring. > > Madhav > > -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman edelman@greenidea.info Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From litman at vtpi.org Sat May 5 06:49:53 2007 From: litman at vtpi.org (Todd Alexander Litman) Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 14:49:53 -0700 Subject: [sustran] "Valuing Transit Service Quality Improvements" - New Report Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20070504144931.07987208@mail.islandnet.com> "Valuing Transit Service Quality Improvements: Considering Comfort and Convenience In Transport Project Evaluation" (http://www.vtpi.org/traveltime.pdf ) This report investigates the value travelers place on qualitative factors such as comfort and convenience, and practical ways to incorporate these factors into travel time values for planning and project evaluation. Conventional evaluation practices generally assign the same time value regardless of travel conditions, and so undervalue comfort and convenience impacts. Yet, a quality improvement that reduces travel time unit costs by 20% provides benefits equivalent to an operational improvement that increases travel speeds by 20%. This report recommends specific travel time value adjustments to account for factors such as travel and waiting comfort, travel reliability, and real time transit vehicle arrival information. It describes how service quality improvements can increase transit ridership and reduce automobile travel. =================================== The Victoria Transport Policy Institute is an independent research organization dedicated to developing innovative solutions to transport problems. The VTPI website (http://www.vtpi.org ) has many resources addressing a wide range of transport planning and policy issues. Please let us know if you want no more VTPI newsletters or notices. Sincerely, Todd Alexander Litman Victoria Transport Policy Institute (www.vtpi.org) litman@vtpi.org Phone & Fax 250-360-1560 1250 Rudlin Street, Victoria, BC, V8V 3R7, CANADA "Efficiency - Equity - Clarity" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070504/dd4b569f/attachment.html From hghazali at gmail.com Sat May 5 13:37:52 2007 From: hghazali at gmail.com (Hassaan Ghazali) Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 09:37:52 +0500 Subject: [sustran] Article on driving in Lahore Message-ID: Please find below an article I wrote which was published in the Friday Times. Regards, Hassaan -- Institutional Development Specialist Urban Sector Policy and Management Unit (The Urban Unit) Planning & Development Department, Government of the Punjab A: 4-B Lytton Road, Lahore, Pakistan T: 9213579-84 (Ext.116) F: 9213585 M: 0345 455 6016 Skype: halgazel http://hghazali.googlepages.com *When conditions are right, everything will go wrong* ***** My Week By HASSAAN Ghazali Supercharged as one is to take care of business on Monday morning, it's the journey to get to work which is the actual struggle. Not too many moons ago, the environs of F.C.C were what I knew to be home and life was beautiful. Friends, fans, lovers and work were a hop, skip and jump away and midnight munchies were easily sorted out with a delivery of pizza or tikka kababs from main market. Sure the big shift was rough and that feeling of connectedness to the city is sorely missed, yet moving south and building big in the peri-urban fringe of Raiwind has its fair share of advantages. That's not to say that they become instantly apparent though. Atleast not until you've had forty five minutes of dodging donkey carts, cussing lorry wallahs, avoiding maulvis on mobiles and risking a meeting with the grim reaper on Ferozepur Road (or the facilitation thereof) just to get to work?and then coming back again. It's enough to make negotiating the regular urban spaghetti of rickshaws, buses and SUVs in the city seem like driving on the motorway. The drive in and out of town is lonely and bouts of autopilot make one more pensive, disengaging only for a private muttering of public abuse and the extending of appendages and digits at my fellow man. Pushing down on the pedal as I finally get some room to speed up, I take a mental note to self that Gucci cockroach killers were not meant for an activity this rigorous. I think of calling Teechee for a chat but am quickly diverted from my chosen course of action. I'm now totally convinced that cellular companies are out to kill me. Why else would they now require me to punch in carrier prefixes before contacts of subscribers on the same network? Call me a stickler for planning, but why can't these service providers consider such matters before they compel me to make a date with my cell phone just to add the prefixes to about two hundred numbers. Now it seems that if ever the need to call such a rogue number while driving emerges then to try dialing is to almost die trying. Narrowly avoiding two motorcyclists having a parallel chat I take another note to self that I will not call Teechee. I will not edit his number. I will keep driving. I will sit with my phone. I will kill the cellular company and then posthumously bill it for time and effort expended. Then I will chuckle. That I've managed not to crash into someone so far is unexplainable but the law of averages is quickly catching up with me and Leviathan lurks somewhere for my dinky. How does anyone expect me not to go bashing into someone? The canal is always a high risk corridor and it's funny how all week I've only heard one thing?"Save Lahore's Trees". Even the radio jockey had gone Daryl Hannah on me. I decide that vandals from the left and right are threatening our city's sustainability and ,ascribing it to the summer heat having affected the populace, make the turn onto Ferozepur Road. Right about now I say a silent prayer for protection and thanks that I have vehicle and life insurance. This is also the time I rediscover how much I love congestion! If it was your job to tackle urban issues in Punjab, even you would end up loving congestion. Without it, how else could I convince anyone that the carrying capacity of our public thoroughfares has been breached and by now the mierda has really hit the fan? I take a final note to self that I will get involved in the struggle to save Lahore and the health of its people. That comes right after I actually get to work in one piece. It's true that if it weren't for Greymalkin, my nerves would be wrecked! She's my pet cat who comes a-purring all chambermaid like in the morning and is the solitary reason for coming home. Her feline form keeps reminding me that I, like the traffic around me, should flow, as does on day into another until finally the weekend dawns on Saturday. Then I can finally relax at home and watch the world cup final. Under normal circumstances I don't give two hoots about the beautiful game but maybe the bookies give me good odds and I can recover my losses made over Germany. Surfing my way over to Ladbrokes, I try and make an informed guess as to the winner and decide to hedge my bets with the only side destined to win?the bookies. If there's a draw by the time ninety minutes are over, then Monday would see me sharing my winnings with friends. I don't think anyone other than oldies, hotties, businessmen or couples go to restaurants anymore so it's probably a good idea to celebrate at one of the nicer coffee shops after work. I scroll through the phone to text the plan and see the rogue numbers stare up at me. Wishing bankruptcy upon the cellular company, I freeze that plan till I am able to sit down with my phone. By the looks of it, both the bankruptcy and punching in prefixes don't stand to happen anytime soon but life goes on and struggle, it seems, is a never ending process for those that live in the boondocks. *** From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Sat May 5 18:15:41 2007 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (Eric Britton) Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 11:15:41 +0200 Subject: [sustran] New Mobility in Paris - Innovatoins profiles for review and comment Message-ID: My fond hope and firm guess is that Dave Holladay will not mind my sharing this posting with you all. These are good points and certainly need to be taken into account in any neural presentation such as that which I am in the process of trying to piece together, not only on the Velib' project but also the other innovative measures being reported on in my Paris survey Right under Dave's good note, you will see the "screening criteria" which I am putting forth as acid tests for each selected measure and recommendation, including, you can bet, Velib' Comments on all this most welcome - and again I propose that they either be shipped to me privately at eric.britton@ecoplan.org or to the New Mobility Idea Factory via theNewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com address. (Otherwise apologies for cross-posting but I do believe there is wide interest here among our different groups. Also please feel free to share more broadly.) Eric Britton PS. Review copies are now available for comment. -----Original Message----- From: Tramsol@aol.com [mailto:Tramsol@aol.com] Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 6:08 PM To: eric.britton@ecoplan.org Subject: Battle for the money... on the streets of Paris Eric I'm trying to get a picture of what mayhem you may experience in your lovely city when the City hands over almost 2000 on-street advertising sites (worth about E 35 million per year?) to JC Decaux in return for them spending E70m on their Velib cycle hire system. Currently Decaux are locked in the courts with Clear Channel whose system operates in a similar way and reckon that there was monkey business when the contract was awarded. Both bike hire systems work essentially on the fu8nding delivered by the advertising panels and are the sweeties offered like the e-pissoirs and bus shelters given away by the same companies - to get space for posters in the public realm. The business is generally very dirty in the way that a good exclusive deal for a city is worth a bundle of money. I am also concerned to find out the likely fate of Roue Libre, supported by RATP, which ires out bikes from rail stations and converted buses, driven to parks and public spaces at weekends and on holidays. It would seem that in one part of the city administration signing up the Velib, they have signed the death warrant for a successful scheme of some 10 years standing. Can you find out any more/any contacts? By contrast London has now got OYBike which unlike the Decaux and CC schemes does not come with automatically attached advertising baggage. Unfortunately it does not yet have the backing of TfL's Cycling Centre of Excellence but a number of London Boroughs have installed smaller Pool Bike systems whcih are available to the public, and the University of E London scheme is so successful that within hours of installation - and a week before official launch, it was being used for (late) night-time shopping trips. OYBIke is part of a tendered package for Toronto and is facing the Decaux machine (a huge team flown in) in Chicago (with their 1 person flying economy class...). Dave Wetzel has been trying out the system recently. Check out www.oybike.com Dave Bottom-Line new mobility tests: 1. Traffic reductions: Does this new mobility tool help to reduce (and especially SOV) car traffic in the city? 2. Environment sustainability: Does it offer a proven, significant, cost-effective capacity for reducing CO2 and other sources of pollution? 3. Synergies: Does it synergize with and open up space for yet other new mobility options, reforms and measures? 4. Accessible: Is it widely accessible and easy to use? 5. Equitable: Is it affordable and socially equitable? 6. Public space: Does it help to improve the quantity/quality of public space in the city? 7. Cost effective: Can it be brought on line at relatively low cost? 8. Fast results: And show significant results within a single electoral mandate? 9. Replicable: Is it replicable in other cities (with proper preparation and adaptation of course)? 10. Experience-proved: Has enough experience been accumulated both in Paris and elsewhere so that cities wishing to look closely at the concept can do so with confidence? 11. Flexible: Does the approach permit a range of alternative planning, financing and implementation alternatives? 12. Reversible: Can it be readily and cheaply reversed, or radically restructured or moved to a better location, if it proves somehow unsatisfactory in its performance? 13. Participatory: Does the project by its nature invite, provide for active public participation and collaboration? 14. Open: Is that information accessible to diligent professionals? 15. City-transformation: Is it a 'city-transforming' project that can lead to a much more sustainable city and higher quality of life for all? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070505/887509c4/attachment.html From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Sat May 5 19:56:59 2007 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (Eric Britton) Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 12:56:59 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Criteria for New Mobility innovations In-Reply-To: <20070505094932.81535.qmail@web51608.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear JK, That?s extremely interesting that you would look at my ?criteria scorecard? or whatever one might wish to call it in the context of Transantiago that we have been in parallel discussing. In drawing it up over the last several days I was thinking mainly about the pre-selected (by me) innovations that are presently in process here in Paris ? and your crossing it to the Transantiago project puts it all in a different perspective. Hmm. Gotta learn to get the right and left brains to working together on all this. What do you all think about it if I add something along the following lines to my shortlist? (Help want for doing better on this and all the rest.) Incremental implementation: Can the measure or system be brought on line in a phased, step-like manner which will permit debugging and fine tuning at acceptable levels of public discomfort and cost? Otherwise I am certainly struck by the centrality of your comments on what are clear, and I am sure many of us think altogether avoidable strategic and planning optimism and oversimplifications in the TA?s team approach. As a strong supporter of new mobility innovation of which this is an important example, I greatly regret these problems. It is such a clear object lesson, for us all and I can only hope that they will now be able to scramble to safety and get this important project working and accepted by all concerned. I am in fact prudently confident that they have the brains, will and the means to sort it out ? but I would say once again that it would be good if those of us with first hand information were to take the time to go over to the TA entry at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transantiago -- and make it better. BTW, the entry is now posted in French German, Swedish and Spanish versions ? with this last, unsurprisingly, the most complete. Eric Britton -----Original Message----- From: Jaswant Krishnayya [mailto:jkrishnayya@yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 11:50 AM To: Eric Britton Cc: sujitjp@gmail.com; Sudhir Jatar Subject: Re your set of Criteria for New Mobility innovations Dear Eric, The idea is there, but these clues to better design do not, it seems to me, take full account of what we can learn from the Santiago debacle. There, as you know, what seems like a superb piece of system-design, political support, funding, etc., came apart in the real world because it was a complex system-design that apparently had to all work together from day-one .. or else. What I am getting at is that in making modifications to real-world operating systems, we must think incrementally. There is no way (?) to get millions (or even thousands) of users to suddenly change the way they get to work or go shopping. So designing the system - sequence - of implementation is a crucial part of the system-design. This must be in baby steps so that each step can be retraced and rebuilt if found necessary, without threatening the public acceptance of the scheme as a whole - not to mention the promise (of much-improved services) there contained. You have many criteria that point to this, of course, particularly the question whether the system has been tried out, etc etc. However, a little explicit acceptance that every complex system will have flaws only discovered during real-world implementation - which will quickly cascade, is, I believe essential too. Sincerely, Jaswant Krishnayya =============== - - - - - Bottom-Line new mobility tests: 1. Traffic reductions: Does this new mobility tool help to reduce (and especially SOV) car traffic in the city? 2. Environment sustainability: Does it offer a proven, significant, cost-effective capacity for reducing CO2 and other sources of pollution? 3. Cost effective: Can it be brought on line at relatively low cost? 4. Fast results: And show significant results within a single electoral mandate? 5. Accessible: Is it widely accessible and easy to use? 6. Equitable: Is it affordable and socially equitable? 7. Synergies: Does it synergize with and open up space for yet other new mobility options, reforms and measures? 8. Public space: Does it help to improve the quantity/quality of public space in the city? 9. Replicable: Is it replicable in other cities (with proper preparation and adaptation of course)? 10. Experience-proved: Has enough experience been accumulated both in Paris and elsewhere so that cities wishing to look closely at the concept can do so with confidence? 11. Flexible: Does the approach permit a range of alternative planning, financing and implementation alternatives? 12. Incremental implementation: Can the measure or system be brought on line in a phased, step-like manner which will permit debugging and fine tuning at acceptable levels of public discomfort and cost? 13. Reversible: Can it be readily and cheaply reversed, or radically restructured or moved to a better location, if it proves somehow unsatisfactory in its performance? 14. Participatory: Does the project by its nature invite, provide for active public participation and collaboration? 15. Open: Is the necessary information accessible to diligent professionals? 16. City-transformation: Is it a ?city-transforming? project that can lead to a much more sustainable city and higher quality of life for all? - -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070505/7014b8fc/attachment.html From edelman at greenidea.info Sat May 5 22:03:51 2007 From: edelman at greenidea.info (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory) Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 15:03:51 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Re: New Mobility in Paris - Innovatoins profiles for review and comment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <463C80B7.4050206@greenidea.info> Hi, The programme in Paris is based on the VeloV programme from Lyon. In addition to what Dave says, there is the additional issue of what kind of advertising would show up on all this JCDecaux property. Cars, for example. Stereotypical images of women. Stuff to make people feel insecure about what they don't have or if they are a little overweight, etc.., like many ads. Street pollution. I am not interested in that kind of trade-off. Here is a similar view on this from someone who lives in Lyon: Prague has a system - in one district so far - based on the technology which is used by OYBike in London. Another example I like is this from the Netherlands, which is a partnership between the rail infrastructure manager and the national cycling advocacy organisation. It is a national programme. OV Fiets means "public transport bikes": It has locations at over 100 railway stations nationwide. VeloV is an unattended system, available 24 hours a day, which is free for the first 30 minutes, but OV Fiets is more of a standard bike rental with basic bikes, but one membership is good for the whole country. VeloV bikes are special and get diagnosed automatically when parked. So there are fundamental differences. OV Fiets is priced at about EUR 3 per 20 hours, whereas taking a bike on the train back and forth to a city is EUR 10. So it is priced right, to give a people a good option to bringing their own bike everywhere. It is growing in popularity. Municipal authorities need to decide if they want to eliminate all types of pollution, not one or two at the expense of another. If OV Fiets could be a little more flexible and a little more like VeloV it would be close to perfect. - T Eric Britton wrote: > > My fond hope and firm guess is that Dave Holladay will not mind my > sharing this posting with you all. These are good points and certainly > need to be taken into account in any neural presentation such as that > which I am in the process of trying to piece together, not only on the > Velib? project but also the other innovative measures being reported > on in my Paris survey > > Right under Dave?s good note, you will see the ?screening criteria? > which I am putting forth as acid tests for each selected measure and > recommendation, including, you can bet, Velib? > > Comments on all this most welcome ? and again I propose that they > either be shipped to me privately at eric.britton@ecoplan.org or to > the New Mobility Idea Factory via theNewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com > address. (Otherwise apologies for cross-posting but I do believe there > is wide interest here among our different groups. Also please feel > free to share more broadly.) > > Eric Britton > > PS. Review copies are now available for comment. > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* Tramsol@aol.com [mailto:Tramsol@aol.com] > *Sent:* Friday, May 04, 2007 6:08 PM > *To:* eric.britton@ecoplan.org > *Subject:* Battle for the money... on the streets of Paris > > Eric > > I'm trying to get a picture of what mayhem you may experience in your > lovely city when the City hands over almost 2000 on-street advertising > sites (worth about E 35 million per year?) to JC Decaux in return for > them spending E70m on their Velib cycle hire system. > > Currently Decaux are locked in the courts with Clear Channel whose > system operates in a similar way and reckon that there was monkey > business when the contract was awarded. Both bike hire systems work > essentially on the fu8nding delivered by the advertising panels and > are the sweeties offered like the e-pissoirs and bus shelters given > away by the same companies - to get space for posters in the public > realm. The business is generally very dirty in the way that a good > exclusive deal for a city is worth a bundle of money. > > I am also concerned to find out the likely fate of Roue Libre, > supported by RATP, which ires out bikes from rail stations and > converted buses, driven to parks and public spaces at weekends and on > holidays. It would seem that in one part of the city administration > signing up the Velib, they have signed the death warrant for a > successful scheme of some 10 years standing. > > Can you find out any more/any contacts? > > By contrast London has now got OYBike which unlike the Decaux and CC > schemes does not come with automatically attached advertising baggage. > Unfortunately it does not yet have the backing of TfL's Cycling Centre > of Excellence but a number of London Boroughs have installed smaller > Pool Bike systems whcih are available to the public, and the > University of E London scheme is so successful that within hours of > installation - and a week before official launch, it was being used > for (late) night-time shopping trips. OYBIke is part of a tendered > package for Toronto and is facing the Decaux machine (a huge team > flown in) in Chicago (with their 1 person flying economy class...). > Dave Wetzel has been trying out the system recently. > > Check out www.oybike.com > > Dave > > *Bottom-Line new mobility tests:*** > > 1. *Traffic reductions*: Does this new mobility tool help to reduce > (and especially SOV) car traffic in the city? > 2. *Environment sustainability*: Does it offer a proven, > significant, cost-effective capacity for reducing CO2 and other > sources of pollution? > 3. *Synergies:* Does it synergize with and open up space for yet > other new mobility options, reforms and measures? > 4. *Accessible*: Is it widely accessible and easy to use? > 5. *Equitable*: Is it affordable and socially equitable? > 6. *Public space*: Does it help to improve the quantity/quality of > public space in the city? > 7. *Cost effective*: Can it be brought on line at relatively low cost? > 8. *Fast results*: And show significant results within a single > electoral mandate? > 9. *Replicable*: Is it replicable in other cities (with proper > preparation and adaptation of course)? > 10. *Experience-proved*: Has enough experience been accumulated both > in Paris and elsewhere so that cities wishing to look closely at > the concept can do so with confidence? > 11. *Flexible*: Does the approach permit a range of alternative > planning, financing and implementation alternatives? > 12. *Reversible:* Can it be readily and cheaply reversed, or > radically restructured or moved to a better location, if it > proves somehow unsatisfactory in its performance? > 13. *Participatory*: Does the project by its nature invite, provide > for active public participation and collaboration? > 14. *Open*: Is that information accessible to diligent professionals? > 15. *City-transformation*: Is it a ?city-transforming? project that > can lead to a much more sustainable city and higher quality of > life for all? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman edelman@greenidea.info Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net From edelman at greenidea.info Sat May 5 22:03:51 2007 From: edelman at greenidea.info (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory) Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 15:03:51 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Re: New Mobility in Paris - Innovatoins profiles for review and comment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <463C80B7.4050206@greenidea.info> Hi, The programme in Paris is based on the VeloV programme from Lyon. In addition to what Dave says, there is the additional issue of what kind of advertising would show up on all this JCDecaux property. Cars, for example. Stereotypical images of women. Stuff to make people feel insecure about what they don't have or if they are a little overweight, etc.., like many ads. Street pollution. I am not interested in that kind of trade-off. Here is a similar view on this from someone who lives in Lyon: Prague has a system - in one district so far - based on the technology which is used by OYBike in London. Another example I like is this from the Netherlands, which is a partnership between the rail infrastructure manager and the national cycling advocacy organisation. It is a national programme. OV Fiets means "public transport bikes": It has locations at over 100 railway stations nationwide. VeloV is an unattended system, available 24 hours a day, which is free for the first 30 minutes, but OV Fiets is more of a standard bike rental with basic bikes, but one membership is good for the whole country. VeloV bikes are special and get diagnosed automatically when parked. So there are fundamental differences. OV Fiets is priced at about EUR 3 per 20 hours, whereas taking a bike on the train back and forth to a city is EUR 10. So it is priced right, to give a people a good option to bringing their own bike everywhere. It is growing in popularity. Municipal authorities need to decide if they want to eliminate all types of pollution, not one or two at the expense of another. If OV Fiets could be a little more flexible and a little more like VeloV it would be close to perfect. - T Eric Britton wrote: > > My fond hope and firm guess is that Dave Holladay will not mind my > sharing this posting with you all. These are good points and certainly > need to be taken into account in any neural presentation such as that > which I am in the process of trying to piece together, not only on the > Velib? project but also the other innovative measures being reported > on in my Paris survey > > Right under Dave?s good note, you will see the ?screening criteria? > which I am putting forth as acid tests for each selected measure and > recommendation, including, you can bet, Velib? > > Comments on all this most welcome ? and again I propose that they > either be shipped to me privately at eric.britton@ecoplan.org or to > the New Mobility Idea Factory via theNewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com > address. (Otherwise apologies for cross-posting but I do believe there > is wide interest here among our different groups. Also please feel > free to share more broadly.) > > Eric Britton > > PS. Review copies are now available for comment. > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* Tramsol@aol.com [mailto:Tramsol@aol.com] > *Sent:* Friday, May 04, 2007 6:08 PM > *To:* eric.britton@ecoplan.org > *Subject:* Battle for the money... on the streets of Paris > > Eric > > I'm trying to get a picture of what mayhem you may experience in your > lovely city when the City hands over almost 2000 on-street advertising > sites (worth about E 35 million per year?) to JC Decaux in return for > them spending E70m on their Velib cycle hire system. > > Currently Decaux are locked in the courts with Clear Channel whose > system operates in a similar way and reckon that there was monkey > business when the contract was awarded. Both bike hire systems work > essentially on the fu8nding delivered by the advertising panels and > are the sweeties offered like the e-pissoirs and bus shelters given > away by the same companies - to get space for posters in the public > realm. The business is generally very dirty in the way that a good > exclusive deal for a city is worth a bundle of money. > > I am also concerned to find out the likely fate of Roue Libre, > supported by RATP, which ires out bikes from rail stations and > converted buses, driven to parks and public spaces at weekends and on > holidays. It would seem that in one part of the city administration > signing up the Velib, they have signed the death warrant for a > successful scheme of some 10 years standing. > > Can you find out any more/any contacts? > > By contrast London has now got OYBike which unlike the Decaux and CC > schemes does not come with automatically attached advertising baggage. > Unfortunately it does not yet have the backing of TfL's Cycling Centre > of Excellence but a number of London Boroughs have installed smaller > Pool Bike systems whcih are available to the public, and the > University of E London scheme is so successful that within hours of > installation - and a week before official launch, it was being used > for (late) night-time shopping trips. OYBIke is part of a tendered > package for Toronto and is facing the Decaux machine (a huge team > flown in) in Chicago (with their 1 person flying economy class...). > Dave Wetzel has been trying out the system recently. > > Check out www.oybike.com > > Dave > > *Bottom-Line new mobility tests:*** > > 1. *Traffic reductions*: Does this new mobility tool help to reduce > (and especially SOV) car traffic in the city? > 2. *Environment sustainability*: Does it offer a proven, > significant, cost-effective capacity for reducing CO2 and other > sources of pollution? > 3. *Synergies:* Does it synergize with and open up space for yet > other new mobility options, reforms and measures? > 4. *Accessible*: Is it widely accessible and easy to use? > 5. *Equitable*: Is it affordable and socially equitable? > 6. *Public space*: Does it help to improve the quantity/quality of > public space in the city? > 7. *Cost effective*: Can it be brought on line at relatively low cost? > 8. *Fast results*: And show significant results within a single > electoral mandate? > 9. *Replicable*: Is it replicable in other cities (with proper > preparation and adaptation of course)? > 10. *Experience-proved*: Has enough experience been accumulated both > in Paris and elsewhere so that cities wishing to look closely at > the concept can do so with confidence? > 11. *Flexible*: Does the approach permit a range of alternative > planning, financing and implementation alternatives? > 12. *Reversible:* Can it be readily and cheaply reversed, or > radically restructured or moved to a better location, if it > proves somehow unsatisfactory in its performance? > 13. *Participatory*: Does the project by its nature invite, provide > for active public participation and collaboration? > 14. *Open*: Is that information accessible to diligent professionals? > 15. *City-transformation*: Is it a ?city-transforming? project that > can lead to a much more sustainable city and higher quality of > life for all? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman edelman@greenidea.info Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net From edelman at greenidea.info Sun May 6 19:54:02 2007 From: edelman at greenidea.info (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory) Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 12:54:02 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques In-Reply-To: <007a01c78e65$073d7de0$b83a2352@mc> References: <007a01c78e65$073d7de0$b83a2352@mc> Message-ID: <463DB3CA.6030700@greenidea.info> Martin Cassini wrote: > Lots to say and little time but in brief: my sympathies and analysis are > pro-planet and pro-freedom of choice/movement, but not anti-car. I FIRMLY believer that is a contradiction. But to clarify one thing I am pro-appropriate transport, not anti-car. Except in cities. For me this means: * In the short- to medium-term: A gradual reduction in private cars though various means, and a big increase in all the "alternative transport" modes, from walking to carshare, and also support of small carfree projects (both optically carfree and really carfree) * In the medium-term: Densification of settlements, freeze and reduction on what many call "sprawl", continued development of carfree areas, alternative transport improvements * In the medium- to long-term: Complete transformation of all cities so that cars are not desired and so not allowed. Cars are fine when used appropriately. > Roughly > speaking, traffic signals double congestion, journey times and fuel use > (and they are responsible for much of the carnage on the roads), AS you give one vague figure here ("double") are you saying that traffic signals double pollution within the wider scope of reducing sustainability by half? I am not a traffic engineer, but it seems that highways, freeways etc.. fill up no matter how wide they get, how many lanes are added, and get jammed up, and all of this without the help of traffic signals. > so > until clean cars are widely available, e.g. the compressed air car from > France/Spain, WHERE does the electricity come from for that? What kind of behaviour does a car enable? Longer trips to the store, bigger refrigerators because the store is far away... so high energy use. But more importantly, how does half of the things you mention above compare to the total amount of pollution etc., caused by a doubling in walking, public transport and cycling? If one-half of the carnage is caused by traffic signals, then this means roughly *only* 600,000 people die on the roads each year due to collisions? This is acceptable to you? I am not even mentioning the air, noise and visual pollution part. > scrapping lights would bring an immediate and significant > reduction in greenhouse gas emissions. Moreover, lights cost a fortune > to manufacture, install, maintain and run. What is the cost to the grid > of the UK's galaxy of 24-hour lights? REMEMBER, that I generally agree with you about there being too many signals and signs. > Todd, I like your point about > facilitating life between buildings, THANKS. > but I question the social > engineering element in some of your proposals. AUTOmobilisation is one of the biggest social engineering projects ever! People are born in places which are already dominated by the car, so their fates are already engineered. The good engineering continues, from the smallest regenerative braking system in a hybrid car to the Interstate Highway System in the USA. And all the marketing and advertising hocus pocus which makes people feel inadequate unless they don't have a car. Toyota, etc. is very brilliant. All enabled by human nature, e.g. peer pressure, to be sure. The engineers know that well. > If people want to go > further afield and carry stuff or passengers, THERE are so many existing alternative solutions for this. You are talking to me like I am from Mars. > and go door-to-door, DRIVE a car up to my door? Not in places with life between buildings. Walking works, cycling too. Sorry, Martin, you are dreaming about resources which don't exist. I am dreaming about using our resources in the most efficient, sustainable and desirable way. DO you really think that we if we eliminating signals and perpetuating the dominance of even tamed individual cars is a recipe for a sustainable world? - T > good > luck to them! > > Martin > > -----Original Message----- > From: > sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca.apc.org > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca. > apc.org] On Behalf Of Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory > Sent: 04 May 2007 16:36 > To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport > Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques > > > Mr Cassini, > > It might interest you to know that the issue you discuss is one of the > ideas for debate at Towards Carfree Cities in Istanbul late in August. > > > Debate: > "Complete streets (see www.completestreets.org > for more info) and shared space (see > "shared space" entry in Wikipedia) concepts vs. pedestrianisation" > > If you are interested in debating this or participating in some way > please contact istanbul@worldcarfree.net > > > I realise that Complete Streets and Shared Space are not the same thing. > > *** > > My own opinion, briefly, is that your concept of sharing without signals > > etc. is GREAT except that private automobiles are not sustainable on a > global level and even carshare is not desirable as a long-term solution > because of the way that cars ensure that streets remain solely in the > job of fulfilling transport duties, rather than a traditional and I > think better role to facilitate life between buildings, with transport > not hindering this and only enabling it. To put it another way, a street > > full of cars with drivers acting politely as possible still dominates > the scene, even if collisions go down (and I have seen the videos of > Shared Space and believe they do. I really do agree that people need to > make eye contact and so on. Signs are also ugly.). > > So, it is certainly better than the current situation but no long-term > solution, or even a mid-term solution. > > But you also seem to say that it is the traffic signals which are making > > things difficult for polar bears, rather than the car traffic itself, no > > matter what speed it is operating at. This is really funny. Are you > serious? > > It would be a fine system if there were no cars. In fact, this is the > way it us 100-120 years ago. No signals, no signs, and no cars. > > So, I propose a compromise: No signals AND no cars. > > Hope to see you in Istanbul. If Mr. Irons can come too, it would be > great, as long as he doesn't fly there. The polar bears would not > approve. Or will you argue that airplanes should also not have > restrictions? > > - T > > > > Martin Cassini wrote: > >> May I second Madhav's delightful point? As some of you know, my >> frustration is with too much traffic regulation, which in my view is >> counterproductive, makes roads dangerous and hostile, where the very >> restraints - which go against the grain of human nature - set the >> stage for conflict and congestion. I love what I see when lights are >> out of action and there are no external controls - congestion >> dissolving, courtesy thriving, everyone merging in a merry mix of >> meandering movement, and the emergence of a new hierarchy, with >> vulnerable road-users at the top. Perhaps there is an elegant >> compromise to be found - some midway point between India and England >> ... priority rules and regimented controls dropped in favour of >> natural cooperation, where might is not right, and we adopt 1Q, >> denoting single queueing and innate intelligence. >> >> Martin >> www.goodfun.tv >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> *From:* >> sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca.apc.or >> sustran-discuss-bounces+g >> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jc >> a.apc.org] >> *On Behalf Of *Madhav Badami, Prof. >> *Sent:* 04 May 2007 15:00 >> *To:* Global 'South' Sustainable Transport >> *Subject:* [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, >> > mosques > >> Dear Carlos, >> >> Once the craziness of the academic term comes to an end, I promise >> a detailed response to Jonathan Richmond's (and others') postings >> on the situation in India (and what we can and ought to do about >> it). I will try and work elephants, cows and yoga -- but not >> planes -- into my response as well :-). Meanwhile, I will leave >> you with this personal viewpoint ... India is like life itself -- >> joyous, sometimes sublime, and at the very same time, very messy, >> even obscene, but never ever dull and boring. >> >> Madhav >> >> >> > -------------------------------------------- > > Todd Edelman > Director > Green Idea Factory > > Korunn? 72 > CZ-10100 Praha 10 > Czech Republic > > ++420 605 915 970 > ++420 222 517 832 > Skype: toddedelman > > edelman@greenidea.info > > Green Idea Factory, > a member of World Carfree Network > www.worldcarfree.net > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to > join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The > yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to > the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem > like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > > > > -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman edelman@greenidea.info Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net From madhav.g.badami at mcgill.ca Sun May 6 23:59:45 2007 From: madhav.g.badami at mcgill.ca (Madhav Badami, Prof.) Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 10:59:45 -0400 Subject: [sustran] M1 Expansion to cost 21 million pounds per mile ... References: <20070506030102.159182C82D@mx-list.jca.ne.jp> Message-ID: <45AEE06A4800AF4FAD8BEF09C433D85F030780BA@EXCHANGE2VS2.campus.mcgill.ca> Hello all, I saw this report in the Guardian just now ... the M1 widening is estimated to cost 21 million pounds per mile: http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2073611,00.html At that rate, you could buy, with what it would cost to widen just one mile of the M1, every man, woman and child in the UK a bus of their own (assuming a 40-foot low-floor bus costs about 250,000 pounds), and you would have 6 million pounds left over for whatever else you may care to do. Madhav Badami ************************************************************************ "As for the future, your task is not to foresee, but to enable it." Antoine de Saint-Exupery Madhav G. Badami, PhD School of Urban Planning and McGill School of Environment McGill University Macdonald-Harrington Building 815 Sherbrooke Street West Montreal, QC, H3A 2K6, Canada Phone: 514-398-3183 (Work); 514-486-2370 (Home) Fax: 514-398-8376; 514-398-1643 URLs: www.mcgill.ca/urbanplanning www.mcgill.ca/mse e-mail: madhav.badami@mcgill.ca From pendakur at interchange.ubc.ca Mon May 7 01:04:33 2007 From: pendakur at interchange.ubc.ca (Pendakur) Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 09:04:33 -0700 Subject: [sustran] Re: M1 Expansion to cost 21 million pounds per mile ... In-Reply-To: <45AEE06A4800AF4FAD8BEF09C433D85F030780BA@EXCHANGE2VS2.campus.mcgill.ca> Message-ID: <20070506160449.2859A2BC54@mx-list.jca.ne.jp> Madhav, what am I missing here? 1 million pounds will give us 4 buses, 21 million gives us 84 buses. This is not enough to provide the provide the entire population of UK with a bus each! What am I missing? Cheers. Setty Dr. V. Setty Pendakur Professor Emeritus, University of BC Honorary Professor, China National Academy of Sciences; Director, ITDP (NY) & Secretary, ABE90-TRB President, Pacific Policy and Planning Associates 702- 1099 Marinaside Cresecent, Vancouver, BC Canada V6Z 2Z3 604-263-3576; Fax: 604-263-6493 -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+pendakur=interchange.ubc.ca@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+pendakur=interchange.ubc.ca@list.jca.apc.org ] On Behalf Of Madhav Badami, Prof. Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 8:00 AM To: sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org Subject: [sustran] M1 Expansion to cost 21 million pounds per mile ... Hello all, I saw this report in the Guardian just now ... the M1 widening is estimated to cost 21 million pounds per mile: http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2073611,00.html At that rate, you could buy, with what it would cost to widen just one mile of the M1, every man, woman and child in the UK a bus of their own (assuming a 40-foot low-floor bus costs about 250,000 pounds), and you would have 6 million pounds left over for whatever else you may care to do. Madhav Badami ************************************************************************ "As for the future, your task is not to foresee, but to enable it." Antoine de Saint-Exupery Madhav G. Badami, PhD School of Urban Planning and McGill School of Environment McGill University Macdonald-Harrington Building 815 Sherbrooke Street West Montreal, QC, H3A 2K6, Canada Phone: 514-398-3183 (Work); 514-486-2370 (Home) Fax: 514-398-8376; 514-398-1643 URLs: www.mcgill.ca/urbanplanning www.mcgill.ca/mse e-mail: madhav.badami@mcgill.ca -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.5/791 - Release Date: 5/6/2007 9:07 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.5/791 - Release Date: 5/6/2007 9:07 AM From edelman at greenidea.info Mon May 7 01:15:42 2007 From: edelman at greenidea.info (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory) Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 18:15:42 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Re: M1 Expansion to cost 21 million pounds per mile ... In-Reply-To: <20070506160449.2859A2BC54@mx-list.jca.ne.jp> References: <20070506160449.2859A2BC54@mx-list.jca.ne.jp> Message-ID: <463DFF2E.8050805@greenidea.info> Hi, I calculated that the projected cost of the entire widening project (5.1 billion pounds) divided by the population (about 60 million) means that every children, woman and man is paying 85 pounds for it. Is this right? - T Pendakur wrote: > Madhav, what am I missing here? > > 1 million pounds will give us 4 buses, 21 million gives us 84 buses. This > is not enough to provide the provide the entire population of UK with a bus > each! > > What am I missing? > > Cheers. > > Setty > Dr. V. Setty Pendakur > Professor Emeritus, University of BC > Honorary Professor, China National Academy of Sciences; > Director, ITDP (NY) & Secretary, ABE90-TRB > > President, Pacific Policy and Planning Associates > 702- 1099 Marinaside Cresecent, Vancouver, BC > Canada V6Z 2Z3 > 604-263-3576; Fax: 604-263-6493 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sustran-discuss-bounces+pendakur=interchange.ubc.ca@list.jca.apc.org > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+pendakur=interchange.ubc.ca@list.jca.apc.org > ] On Behalf Of Madhav Badami, Prof. > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 8:00 AM > To: sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org > Subject: [sustran] M1 Expansion to cost 21 million pounds per mile ... > > Hello all, > > I saw this report in the Guardian just now ... the M1 widening is estimated > to cost 21 million pounds per mile: > > http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2073611,00.html > > At that rate, you could buy, with what it would cost to widen just one mile > of the M1, every man, woman and child in the UK a bus of their own (assuming > a 40-foot low-floor bus costs about 250,000 pounds), and you would have 6 > million pounds left over for whatever else you may care to do. > > Madhav Badami > > ************************************************************************ > > "As for the future, your task is not to foresee, but to enable it." > Antoine de Saint-Exupery > > Madhav G. Badami, PhD > School of Urban Planning and McGill School of Environment > McGill University > Macdonald-Harrington Building > 815 Sherbrooke Street West > Montreal, QC, H3A 2K6, Canada > > Phone: 514-398-3183 (Work); 514-486-2370 (Home) > Fax: 514-398-8376; 514-398-1643 > URLs: www.mcgill.ca/urbanplanning > www.mcgill.ca/mse > e-mail: madhav.badami@mcgill.ca > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join > the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups > version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real > sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). > Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.5/791 - Release Date: 5/6/2007 9:07 > AM > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.5/791 - Release Date: 5/6/2007 9:07 > AM > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). > > -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman edelman@greenidea.info Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net From madhav.g.badami at mcgill.ca Mon May 7 01:36:07 2007 From: madhav.g.badami at mcgill.ca (Madhav Badami, Prof.) Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 12:36:07 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: M1 Expansion to cost 21 million pounds per mile ... References: <20070506160449.2859A2BC54@mx-list.jca.ne.jp> Message-ID: <45AEE06A4800AF4FAD8BEF09C433D85F030780BB@EXCHANGE2VS2.campus.mcgill.ca> Yikes, yikes ... I missed a few thousand zeros ... mea culpa. I just realized my massive blunder a few minutes after I headed off on my shopping trip (in my car, I must confess). A million apologies. Just got back ... will re-do the calculation. Madhav ************************************************************************ "As for the future, your task is not to foresee, but to enable it." Antoine de Saint-Exupery Madhav G. Badami, PhD School of Urban Planning and McGill School of Environment McGill University Macdonald-Harrington Building 815 Sherbrooke Street West Montreal, QC, H3A 2K6, Canada Phone: 514-398-3183 (Work); 514-486-2370 (Home) Fax: 514-398-8376; 514-398-1643 URLs: www.mcgill.ca/urbanplanning www.mcgill.ca/mse e-mail: madhav.badami@mcgill.ca -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+madhav.g.badami=mcgill.ca@list.jca.apc.org on behalf of Pendakur Sent: Sun 5/6/2007 12:04 PM To: 'Global 'South' Sustainable Transport' Subject: [sustran] Re: M1 Expansion to cost 21 million pounds per mile ... Madhav, what am I missing here? 1 million pounds will give us 4 buses, 21 million gives us 84 buses. This is not enough to provide the provide the entire population of UK with a bus each! What am I missing? Cheers. Setty Dr. V. Setty Pendakur Professor Emeritus, University of BC Honorary Professor, China National Academy of Sciences; Director, ITDP (NY) & Secretary, ABE90-TRB President, Pacific Policy and Planning Associates 702- 1099 Marinaside Cresecent, Vancouver, BC Canada V6Z 2Z3 604-263-3576; Fax: 604-263-6493 -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+pendakur=interchange.ubc.ca@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+pendakur=interchange.ubc.ca@list.jca.apc.org ] On Behalf Of Madhav Badami, Prof. Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 8:00 AM To: sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org Subject: [sustran] M1 Expansion to cost 21 million pounds per mile ... Hello all, I saw this report in the Guardian just now ... the M1 widening is estimated to cost 21 million pounds per mile: http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2073611,00.html At that rate, you could buy, with what it would cost to widen just one mile of the M1, every man, woman and child in the UK a bus of their own (assuming a 40-foot low-floor bus costs about 250,000 pounds), and you would have 6 million pounds left over for whatever else you may care to do. Madhav Badami ************************************************************************ "As for the future, your task is not to foresee, but to enable it." Antoine de Saint-Exupery Madhav G. Badami, PhD School of Urban Planning and McGill School of Environment McGill University Macdonald-Harrington Building 815 Sherbrooke Street West Montreal, QC, H3A 2K6, Canada Phone: 514-398-3183 (Work); 514-486-2370 (Home) Fax: 514-398-8376; 514-398-1643 URLs: www.mcgill.ca/urbanplanning www.mcgill.ca/mse e-mail: madhav.badami@mcgill.ca -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.5/791 - Release Date: 5/6/2007 9:07 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.5/791 - Release Date: 5/6/2007 9:07 AM -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From martincassini at blueyonder.co.uk Mon May 7 01:45:24 2007 From: martincassini at blueyonder.co.uk (Martin Cassini) Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 17:45:24 +0100 Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques In-Reply-To: <463DB3CA.6030700@greenidea.info> Message-ID: <002201c78ffd$f1a3a500$b83a2352@mc> In the interests of long-term survival, people need to find other ways of getting about, work more from home, develop new energy sources. But something can be done NOW to make an impact on climate change: scrap traffic lights, the biggest gas-guzzlers of them all. From a Canadian website: ?If every driver in Canada avoided idling for 5 minutes a day, 1.6 million tonnes of CO2 would not enter the atmosphere. It is estimated that idling and stop-go traffic costs motorists 753 million gallons of gas a year, or $1,194 per driver in wasted fuel and time.? But how do we avoid idling when traffic lights block progress in every sense? (In haste again, sorry) -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca. apc.org] On Behalf Of Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory Sent: 06 May 2007 11:54 To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques Martin Cassini wrote: > Lots to say and little time but in brief: my sympathies and analysis > are pro-planet and pro-freedom of choice/movement, but not anti-car. I FIRMLY believer that is a contradiction. But to clarify one thing I am pro-appropriate transport, not anti-car. Except in cities. For me this means: * In the short- to medium-term: A gradual reduction in private cars though various means, and a big increase in all the "alternative transport" modes, from walking to carshare, and also support of small carfree projects (both optically carfree and really carfree) * In the medium-term: Densification of settlements, freeze and reduction on what many call "sprawl", continued development of carfree areas, alternative transport improvements * In the medium- to long-term: Complete transformation of all cities so that cars are not desired and so not allowed. Cars are fine when used appropriately. > Roughly > speaking, traffic signals double congestion, journey times and fuel > use (and they are responsible for much of the carnage on the roads), AS you give one vague figure here ("double") are you saying that traffic signals double pollution within the wider scope of reducing sustainability by half? I am not a traffic engineer, but it seems that highways, freeways etc.. fill up no matter how wide they get, how many lanes are added, and get jammed up, and all of this without the help of traffic signals. > so > until clean cars are widely available, e.g. the compressed air car > from France/Spain, WHERE does the electricity come from for that? What kind of behaviour does a car enable? Longer trips to the store, bigger refrigerators because the store is far away... so high energy use. But more importantly, how does half of the things you mention above compare to the total amount of pollution etc., caused by a doubling in walking, public transport and cycling? If one-half of the carnage is caused by traffic signals, then this means roughly *only* 600,000 people die on the roads each year due to collisions? This is acceptable to you? I am not even mentioning the air, noise and visual pollution part. > scrapping lights would bring an immediate and significant reduction > in greenhouse gas emissions. Moreover, lights cost a fortune to > manufacture, install, maintain and run. What is the cost to the grid > of the UK's galaxy of 24-hour lights? REMEMBER, that I generally agree with you about there being too many signals and signs. > Todd, I like your point about > facilitating life between buildings, THANKS. > but I question the social > engineering element in some of your proposals. AUTOmobilisation is one of the biggest social engineering projects ever! People are born in places which are already dominated by the car, so their fates are already engineered. The good engineering continues, from the smallest regenerative braking system in a hybrid car to the Interstate Highway System in the USA. And all the marketing and advertising hocus pocus which makes people feel inadequate unless they don't have a car. Toyota, etc. is very brilliant. All enabled by human nature, e.g. peer pressure, to be sure. The engineers know that well. > If people want to go > further afield and carry stuff or passengers, THERE are so many existing alternative solutions for this. You are talking to me like I am from Mars. > and go door-to-door, DRIVE a car up to my door? Not in places with life between buildings. Walking works, cycling too. Sorry, Martin, you are dreaming about resources which don't exist. I am dreaming about using our resources in the most efficient, sustainable and desirable way. DO you really think that we if we eliminating signals and perpetuating the dominance of even tamed individual cars is a recipe for a sustainable world? - T > good > luck to them! > > Martin > > -----Original Message----- > From: > sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca.apc.or > sustran-discuss-bounces+g > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jc > a. > apc.org] On Behalf Of Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory > Sent: 04 May 2007 16:36 > To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport > Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques > > > Mr Cassini, > > It might interest you to know that the issue you discuss is one of the > ideas for debate at Towards Carfree Cities in Istanbul late in August. > > > Debate: > "Complete streets (see www.completestreets.org > for more info) and shared space (see > "shared space" entry in Wikipedia) concepts vs. pedestrianisation" > > If you are interested in debating this or participating in some way > please contact istanbul@worldcarfree.net > > > I realise that Complete Streets and Shared Space are not the same > thing. > > *** > > My own opinion, briefly, is that your concept of sharing without > signals > > etc. is GREAT except that private automobiles are not sustainable on a > global level and even carshare is not desirable as a long-term solution > because of the way that cars ensure that streets remain solely in the > job of fulfilling transport duties, rather than a traditional and I > think better role to facilitate life between buildings, with transport > not hindering this and only enabling it. To put it another way, a street > > full of cars with drivers acting politely as possible still dominates > the scene, even if collisions go down (and I have seen the videos of > Shared Space and believe they do. I really do agree that people need to > make eye contact and so on. Signs are also ugly.). > > So, it is certainly better than the current situation but no long-term > solution, or even a mid-term solution. > > But you also seem to say that it is the traffic signals which are > making > > things difficult for polar bears, rather than the car traffic itself, > no > > matter what speed it is operating at. This is really funny. Are you > serious? > > It would be a fine system if there were no cars. In fact, this is the > way it us 100-120 years ago. No signals, no signs, and no cars. > > So, I propose a compromise: No signals AND no cars. > > Hope to see you in Istanbul. If Mr. Irons can come too, it would be > great, as long as he doesn't fly there. The polar bears would not > approve. Or will you argue that airplanes should also not have > restrictions? > > - T > > > > Martin Cassini wrote: > >> May I second Madhav's delightful point? As some of you know, my >> frustration is with too much traffic regulation, which in my view is >> counterproductive, makes roads dangerous and hostile, where the very >> restraints - which go against the grain of human nature - set the >> stage for conflict and congestion. I love what I see when lights are >> out of action and there are no external controls - congestion >> dissolving, courtesy thriving, everyone merging in a merry mix of >> meandering movement, and the emergence of a new hierarchy, with >> vulnerable road-users at the top. Perhaps there is an elegant >> compromise to be found - some midway point between India and England >> ... priority rules and regimented controls dropped in favour of >> natural cooperation, where might is not right, and we adopt 1Q, >> denoting single queueing and innate intelligence. >> >> Martin >> www.goodfun.tv >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> *From:* >> sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca.apc.o >> sustran-discuss-bounces+r >> sustran-discuss-bounces+g >> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.j >> c >> a.apc.org] >> *On Behalf Of *Madhav Badami, Prof. >> *Sent:* 04 May 2007 15:00 >> *To:* Global 'South' Sustainable Transport >> *Subject:* [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, >> > mosques > >> Dear Carlos, >> >> Once the craziness of the academic term comes to an end, I promise >> a detailed response to Jonathan Richmond's (and others') postings >> on the situation in India (and what we can and ought to do about >> it). I will try and work elephants, cows and yoga -- but not >> planes -- into my response as well :-). Meanwhile, I will leave >> you with this personal viewpoint ... India is like life itself -- >> joyous, sometimes sublime, and at the very same time, very messy, >> even obscene, but never ever dull and boring. >> >> Madhav >> >> >> > -------------------------------------------- > > Todd Edelman > Director > Green Idea Factory > > Korunn? 72 > CZ-10100 Praha 10 > Czech Republic > > ++420 605 915 970 > ++420 222 517 832 > Skype: toddedelman > > edelman@greenidea.info > > Green Idea Factory, > a member of World Carfree Network > www.worldcarfree.net > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss > to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The > yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post > to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it > seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing > countries (the 'Global South'). > > > > -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman edelman@greenidea.info Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From madhav.g.badami at mcgill.ca Mon May 7 02:00:06 2007 From: madhav.g.badami at mcgill.ca (Madhav Badami, Prof.) Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 13:00:06 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: M1 Expansion to cost 21 million pounds per mile ... References: <20070506160449.2859A2BC54@mx-list.jca.ne.jp> <45AEE06A4800AF4FAD8BEF09C433D85F030780BB@EXCHANGE2VS2.campus.mcgill.ca> Message-ID: <45AEE06A4800AF4FAD8BEF09C433D85F030780BC@EXCHANGE2VS2.campus.mcgill.ca> Hello all, Here is a far more modest assessment of what the proposed M1 expansion would buy in buses. 21 million pounds per mile X 240 miles = 5,040 million pounds At 250,000 pounds per 40-foot low-floor bus, 5,040 million pounds would buy 20,000 buses. London's bus fleet, I understand, is 8000 strong. 20,000 buses, I figure, would be a significant proportion of the UK bus fleet (our UK colleagues can tell us what the total UK bus fleet is). While I obviously goofed up big time with my previous calculation as I was rushing to head off (MORAL: NEVER E-MAIL, AND CERTAINLY, NEVER MASS E-MAIL, IN A HURRY), for which I apologize most sincerely to one and all, that's a lot of buses (and one can try and estimate the relative accessibility, mobility, energy, environmental and other impacts of investing 5.04 billion in the M1 expansion versus 20,000 additional buses). Madhav ************************************************************************ "As for the future, your task is not to foresee, but to enable it." Antoine de Saint-Exupery Madhav G. Badami, PhD School of Urban Planning and McGill School of Environment McGill University Macdonald-Harrington Building 815 Sherbrooke Street West Montreal, QC, H3A 2K6, Canada Phone: 514-398-3183 (Work); 514-486-2370 (Home) Fax: 514-398-8376; 514-398-1643 URLs: www.mcgill.ca/urbanplanning www.mcgill.ca/mse e-mail: madhav.badami@mcgill.ca -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+madhav.g.badami=mcgill.ca@list.jca.apc.org on behalf of Madhav Badami, Prof. Sent: Sun 5/6/2007 12:36 PM To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport; Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Subject: [sustran] Re: M1 Expansion to cost 21 million pounds per mile ... Yikes, yikes ... I missed a few thousand zeros ... mea culpa. I just realized my massive blunder a few minutes after I headed off on my shopping trip (in my car, I must confess). A million apologies. Just got back ... will re-do the calculation. Madhav ************************************************************************ "As for the future, your task is not to foresee, but to enable it." Antoine de Saint-Exupery Madhav G. Badami, PhD School of Urban Planning and McGill School of Environment McGill University Macdonald-Harrington Building 815 Sherbrooke Street West Montreal, QC, H3A 2K6, Canada Phone: 514-398-3183 (Work); 514-486-2370 (Home) Fax: 514-398-8376; 514-398-1643 URLs: www.mcgill.ca/urbanplanning www.mcgill.ca/mse e-mail: madhav.badami@mcgill.ca -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+madhav.g.badami=mcgill.ca@list.jca.apc.org on behalf of Pendakur Sent: Sun 5/6/2007 12:04 PM To: 'Global 'South' Sustainable Transport' Subject: [sustran] Re: M1 Expansion to cost 21 million pounds per mile ... Madhav, what am I missing here? 1 million pounds will give us 4 buses, 21 million gives us 84 buses. This is not enough to provide the provide the entire population of UK with a bus each! What am I missing? Cheers. Setty Dr. V. Setty Pendakur Professor Emeritus, University of BC Honorary Professor, China National Academy of Sciences; Director, ITDP (NY) & Secretary, ABE90-TRB President, Pacific Policy and Planning Associates 702- 1099 Marinaside Cresecent, Vancouver, BC Canada V6Z 2Z3 604-263-3576; Fax: 604-263-6493 -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+pendakur=interchange.ubc.ca@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+pendakur=interchange.ubc.ca@list.jca.apc.org ] On Behalf Of Madhav Badami, Prof. Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 8:00 AM To: sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org Subject: [sustran] M1 Expansion to cost 21 million pounds per mile ... Hello all, I saw this report in the Guardian just now ... the M1 widening is estimated to cost 21 million pounds per mile: http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2073611,00.html At that rate, you could buy, with what it would cost to widen just one mile of the M1, every man, woman and child in the UK a bus of their own (assuming a 40-foot low-floor bus costs about 250,000 pounds), and you would have 6 million pounds left over for whatever else you may care to do. Madhav Badami ************************************************************************ "As for the future, your task is not to foresee, but to enable it." Antoine de Saint-Exupery Madhav G. Badami, PhD School of Urban Planning and McGill School of Environment McGill University Macdonald-Harrington Building 815 Sherbrooke Street West Montreal, QC, H3A 2K6, Canada Phone: 514-398-3183 (Work); 514-486-2370 (Home) Fax: 514-398-8376; 514-398-1643 URLs: www.mcgill.ca/urbanplanning www.mcgill.ca/mse e-mail: madhav.badami@mcgill.ca -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.5/791 - Release Date: 5/6/2007 9:07 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.5/791 - Release Date: 5/6/2007 9:07 AM -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From edelman at greenidea.info Mon May 7 02:16:03 2007 From: edelman at greenidea.info (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory) Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 19:16:03 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Re: M1 Expansion to cost 21 million pounds per mile ... In-Reply-To: <45AEE06A4800AF4FAD8BEF09C433D85F030780BC@EXCHANGE2VS2.campus.mcgill.ca> References: <20070506160449.2859A2BC54@mx-list.jca.ne.jp> <45AEE06A4800AF4FAD8BEF09C433D85F030780BB@EXCHANGE2VS2.campus.mcgill.ca> <45AEE06A4800AF4FAD8BEF09C433D85F030780BC@EXCHANGE2VS2.campus.mcgill.ca> Message-ID: <463E0D53.4020507@greenidea.info> Hi again, At 250 pounds per bicycle, 5,040 million pounds would buy over 2,000,000 bicycles. Or about 5000 rail carriages. - T p.s. or ten of these: or maybe 10 billion of these: Madhav Badami, Prof. wrote: > Hello all, > > Here is a far more modest assessment of what the proposed M1 expansion would buy in buses. > > 21 million pounds per mile X 240 miles = 5,040 million pounds > > At 250,000 pounds per 40-foot low-floor bus, 5,040 million pounds would buy 20,000 buses. > > London's bus fleet, I understand, is 8000 strong. 20,000 buses, I figure, would be a significant proportion of the UK bus fleet (our UK colleagues can tell us what the total UK bus fleet is). > > While I obviously goofed up big time with my previous calculation as I was rushing to head off (MORAL: NEVER E-MAIL, AND CERTAINLY, NEVER MASS E-MAIL, IN A HURRY), for which I apologize most sincerely to one and all, that's a lot of buses (and one can try and estimate the relative accessibility, mobility, energy, environmental and other impacts of investing 5.04 billion in the M1 expansion versus 20,000 additional buses). > > Madhav > > ************************************************************************ > > "As for the future, your task is not to foresee, but to enable it." > Antoine de Saint-Exupery > > Madhav G. Badami, PhD > School of Urban Planning and McGill School of Environment > McGill University > Macdonald-Harrington Building > 815 Sherbrooke Street West > Montreal, QC, H3A 2K6, Canada > > Phone: 514-398-3183 (Work); 514-486-2370 (Home) > Fax: 514-398-8376; 514-398-1643 > URLs: www.mcgill.ca/urbanplanning > www.mcgill.ca/mse > e-mail: madhav.badami@mcgill.ca > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sustran-discuss-bounces+madhav.g.badami=mcgill.ca@list.jca.apc.org on behalf of Madhav Badami, Prof. > Sent: Sun 5/6/2007 12:36 PM > To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport; Global 'South' Sustainable Transport > Subject: [sustran] Re: M1 Expansion to cost 21 million pounds per mile ... > > Yikes, yikes ... I missed a few thousand zeros ... mea culpa. I just realized my massive blunder a few minutes after I headed off on my shopping trip (in my car, I must confess). A million apologies. Just got back ... will re-do the calculation. > > Madhav > > ************************************************************************ > > "As for the future, your task is not to foresee, but to enable it." > Antoine de Saint-Exupery > > Madhav G. Badami, PhD > School of Urban Planning and McGill School of Environment > McGill University > Macdonald-Harrington Building > 815 Sherbrooke Street West > Montreal, QC, H3A 2K6, Canada > > Phone: 514-398-3183 (Work); 514-486-2370 (Home) > Fax: 514-398-8376; 514-398-1643 > URLs: www.mcgill.ca/urbanplanning > www.mcgill.ca/mse > e-mail: madhav.badami@mcgill.ca > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sustran-discuss-bounces+madhav.g.badami=mcgill.ca@list.jca.apc.org on behalf of Pendakur > Sent: Sun 5/6/2007 12:04 PM > To: 'Global 'South' Sustainable Transport' > Subject: [sustran] Re: M1 Expansion to cost 21 million pounds per mile ... > > Madhav, what am I missing here? > > 1 million pounds will give us 4 buses, 21 million gives us 84 buses. This > is not enough to provide the provide the entire population of UK with a bus > each! > > What am I missing? > > Cheers. > > Setty > Dr. V. Setty Pendakur > Professor Emeritus, University of BC > Honorary Professor, China National Academy of Sciences; > Director, ITDP (NY) & Secretary, ABE90-TRB > > President, Pacific Policy and Planning Associates > 702- 1099 Marinaside Cresecent, Vancouver, BC > Canada V6Z 2Z3 > 604-263-3576; Fax: 604-263-6493 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sustran-discuss-bounces+pendakur=interchange.ubc.ca@list.jca.apc.org > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+pendakur=interchange.ubc.ca@list.jca.apc.org > ] On Behalf Of Madhav Badami, Prof. > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 8:00 AM > To: sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org > Subject: [sustran] M1 Expansion to cost 21 million pounds per mile ... > > Hello all, > > I saw this report in the Guardian just now ... the M1 widening is estimated > to cost 21 million pounds per mile: > > http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2073611,00.html > > At that rate, you could buy, with what it would cost to widen just one mile > of the M1, every man, woman and child in the UK a bus of their own (assuming > a 40-foot low-floor bus costs about 250,000 pounds), and you would have 6 > million pounds left over for whatever else you may care to do. > > Madhav Badami > > ************************************************************************ > > "As for the future, your task is not to foresee, but to enable it." > Antoine de Saint-Exupery > > Madhav G. Badami, PhD > School of Urban Planning and McGill School of Environment > McGill University > Macdonald-Harrington Building > 815 Sherbrooke Street West > Montreal, QC, H3A 2K6, Canada > > Phone: 514-398-3183 (Work); 514-486-2370 (Home) > Fax: 514-398-8376; 514-398-1643 > URLs: www.mcgill.ca/urbanplanning > www.mcgill.ca/mse > e-mail: madhav.badami@mcgill.ca > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join > the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups > version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real > sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). > Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.5/791 - Release Date: 5/6/2007 9:07 > AM > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.5/791 - Release Date: 5/6/2007 9:07 > AM > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). > > -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman edelman@greenidea.info Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net From edelman at greenidea.info Mon May 7 02:33:43 2007 From: edelman at greenidea.info (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory) Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 19:33:43 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques In-Reply-To: <002201c78ffd$f1a3a500$b83a2352@mc> References: <002201c78ffd$f1a3a500$b83a2352@mc> Message-ID: <463E1177.30706@greenidea.info> Hi, Martin Cassini wrote: > In the interests of long-term survival, people need to find other ways > of getting about, work more from home, develop new energy sources. But > something can be done NOW to make an impact on climate change: scrap > traffic lights, the biggest gas-guzzlers of them all! From a Canadian > website: ?If every driver in Canada avoided idling for 5 minutes a day, > 1.6 million tonnes of CO2 would not enter the atmosphere. It is > estimated that idling and stop-go traffic costs motorists 753 million > gallons of gas a year, or $1,194 per driver in wasted fuel and time.? > But how do we avoid idling when traffic lights block progress in every > sense? (In haste again, sorry) > FIRST of all, you are conflating stop-go traffic and idling into one thing. Stop-go can be on roads where are there are no traffic lights, like freeways and highways. Second, you are saying that cars produce most of their CO2 because of the lights... the "biggest gas-guzzlers of them all"? That's nuts. Third, what people can do NOW is exercise some self-control rather than just depend on a lack of traffic lights to solve their personal carbon problems. - T > > -----Original Message----- > From: > sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca.apc.org > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca. > apc.org] On Behalf Of Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory > Sent: 06 May 2007 11:54 > To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport > Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques > > > Martin Cassini wrote: > >> Lots to say and little time but in brief: my sympathies and analysis >> are pro-planet and pro-freedom of choice/movement, but not anti-car. >> > I FIRMLY believer that is a contradiction. But to clarify one thing I am > > pro-appropriate transport, not anti-car. Except in cities. For me this > means: > * In the short- to medium-term: A gradual reduction in private cars > though various means, and a big increase in all the "alternative > transport" modes, from walking to carshare, and also support of small > carfree projects (both optically carfree and really carfree) > * In the medium-term: Densification of settlements, freeze and reduction > > on what many call "sprawl", continued development of carfree areas, > alternative transport improvements > * In the medium- to long-term: Complete transformation of all cities so > that cars are not desired and so not allowed. > > Cars are fine when used appropriately. > >> Roughly >> speaking, traffic signals double congestion, journey times and fuel >> use (and they are responsible for much of the carnage on the roads), >> > AS you give one vague figure here ("double") are you saying that traffic > > signals double pollution within the wider scope of reducing > sustainability by half? I am not a traffic engineer, but it seems that > highways, freeways etc.. fill up no matter how wide they get, how many > lanes are added, and get jammed up, and all of this without the help of > traffic signals. > >> so >> until clean cars are widely available, e.g. the compressed air car >> from France/Spain, >> > WHERE does the electricity come from for that? What kind of behaviour > does a car enable? Longer trips to the store, bigger refrigerators > because the store is far away... so high energy use. > > But more importantly, how does half of the things you mention above > compare to the total amount of pollution etc., caused by a doubling in > walking, public transport and cycling? If one-half of the carnage is > caused by traffic signals, then this means roughly *only* 600,000 people > > die on the roads each year due to collisions? This is acceptable to you? > > I am not even mentioning the air, noise and visual pollution part. > >> scrapping lights would bring an immediate and significant reduction >> in greenhouse gas emissions. Moreover, lights cost a fortune to >> manufacture, install, maintain and run. What is the cost to the grid >> of the UK's galaxy of 24-hour lights? >> > REMEMBER, that I generally agree with you about there being too many > signals and signs. > >> Todd, I like your point about >> facilitating life between buildings, >> > THANKS. > >> but I question the social >> engineering element in some of your proposals. >> > AUTOmobilisation is one of the biggest social engineering projects ever! > > People are born in places which are already dominated by the car, so > their fates are already engineered. The good engineering continues, from > > the smallest regenerative braking system in a hybrid car to the > Interstate Highway System in the USA. And all the marketing and > advertising hocus pocus which makes people feel inadequate unless they > don't have a car. Toyota, etc. is very brilliant. All enabled by human > nature, e.g. peer pressure, to be sure. The engineers know that well. > >> If people want to go >> further afield and carry stuff or passengers, >> > THERE are so many existing alternative solutions for this. You are > talking to me like I am from Mars. > >> and go door-to-door, >> > DRIVE a car up to my door? Not in places with life between buildings. > Walking works, cycling too. > > Sorry, Martin, you are dreaming about resources which don't exist. I am > dreaming about using our resources in the most efficient, sustainable > and desirable way. > > DO you really think that we if we eliminating signals and perpetuating > the dominance of even tamed individual cars is a recipe for a > sustainable world? > > - T > > > >> good >> luck to them! >> >> Martin >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: >> sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca.apc.or >> sustran-discuss-bounces+g >> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jc >> a. >> apc.org] On Behalf Of Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory >> Sent: 04 May 2007 16:36 >> To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport >> Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques >> >> >> Mr Cassini, >> >> It might interest you to know that the issue you discuss is one of the >> ideas for debate at Towards Carfree Cities in Istanbul late in August. >> > > >> >> >> Debate: >> "Complete streets (see www.completestreets.org >> for more info) and shared space (see >> > > >> "shared space" entry in Wikipedia) concepts vs. pedestrianisation" >> >> If you are interested in debating this or participating in some way >> please contact istanbul@worldcarfree.net >> >> >> I realise that Complete Streets and Shared Space are not the same >> thing. >> >> *** >> >> My own opinion, briefly, is that your concept of sharing without >> signals >> >> etc. is GREAT except that private automobiles are not sustainable on a >> global level and even carshare is not desirable as a long-term >> > solution > >> because of the way that cars ensure that streets remain solely in the >> job of fulfilling transport duties, rather than a traditional and I >> think better role to facilitate life between buildings, with transport >> > > >> not hindering this and only enabling it. To put it another way, a >> > street > >> full of cars with drivers acting politely as possible still dominates >> the scene, even if collisions go down (and I have seen the videos of >> Shared Space and believe they do. I really do agree that people need >> > to > >> make eye contact and so on. Signs are also ugly.). >> >> So, it is certainly better than the current situation but no long-term >> solution, or even a mid-term solution. >> >> But you also seem to say that it is the traffic signals which are >> making >> >> things difficult for polar bears, rather than the car traffic itself, >> no >> >> matter what speed it is operating at. This is really funny. Are you >> serious? >> >> It would be a fine system if there were no cars. In fact, this is the >> way it us 100-120 years ago. No signals, no signs, and no cars. >> >> So, I propose a compromise: No signals AND no cars. >> >> Hope to see you in Istanbul. If Mr. Irons can come too, it would be >> great, as long as he doesn't fly there. The polar bears would not >> approve. Or will you argue that airplanes should also not have >> restrictions? >> >> - T >> >> >> >> Martin Cassini wrote: >> >> >>> May I second Madhav's delightful point? As some of you know, my >>> frustration is with too much traffic regulation, which in my view is >>> counterproductive, makes roads dangerous and hostile, where the very >>> restraints - which go against the grain of human nature - set the >>> stage for conflict and congestion. I love what I see when lights are >>> out of action and there are no external controls - congestion >>> dissolving, courtesy thriving, everyone merging in a merry mix of >>> meandering movement, and the emergence of a new hierarchy, with >>> vulnerable road-users at the top. Perhaps there is an elegant >>> compromise to be found - some midway point between India and England >>> ... priority rules and regimented controls dropped in favour of >>> natural cooperation, where might is not right, and we adopt 1Q, >>> denoting single queueing and innate intelligence. >>> >>> Martin >>> www.goodfun.tv >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> *From:* >>> sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca.apc.o >>> sustran-discuss-bounces+r >>> sustran-discuss-bounces+g >>> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.j >>> c >>> a.apc.org] >>> *On Behalf Of *Madhav Badami, Prof. >>> *Sent:* 04 May 2007 15:00 >>> *To:* Global 'South' Sustainable Transport >>> *Subject:* [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, >>> >>> >> mosques >> >> >>> Dear Carlos, >>> >>> Once the craziness of the academic term comes to an end, I >>> > promise > >>> a detailed response to Jonathan Richmond's (and others') postings >>> on the situation in India (and what we can and ought to do about >>> it). I will try and work elephants, cows and yoga -- but not >>> planes -- into my response as well :-). Meanwhile, I will leave >>> you with this personal viewpoint ... India is like life itself -- >>> joyous, sometimes sublime, and at the very same time, very messy, >>> even obscene, but never ever dull and boring. >>> >>> Madhav >>> >>> >>> >>> >> -------------------------------------------- >> >> Todd Edelman >> Director >> Green Idea Factory >> >> Korunn? 72 >> CZ-10100 Praha 10 >> Czech Republic >> >> ++420 605 915 970 >> ++420 222 517 832 >> Skype: toddedelman >> >> edelman@greenidea.info >> >> Green Idea Factory, >> a member of World Carfree Network >> www.worldcarfree.net >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via >> YAHOOGROUPS. >> >> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss >> to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The >> yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post >> to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it >> seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. >> >> ================================================================ >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing >> countries (the 'Global South'). >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman edelman@greenidea.info Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net From sujit at vsnl.com Mon May 7 02:30:55 2007 From: sujit at vsnl.com (Sujit Patwardhan) Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 23:00:55 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques In-Reply-To: <002201c78ffd$f1a3a500$b83a2352@mc> References: <463DB3CA.6030700@greenidea.info> <002201c78ffd$f1a3a500$b83a2352@mc> Message-ID: <4cfd20aa0705061030q24760797h5dcd2c82aafcdc08@mail.gmail.com> With due respect to Martin, may I say that in Indian conditions where although car ownership figure is still very low compared to nations of the first world, the steep graph of growing number of personal auto vehicles is frightening. In a setting where personal autos (two, three and four wheelers) are growing at this rate, reducing the idling times isn't going to achieve much. We therefore need strategies to drastically cut personal auto vehicle ownership and more important "use" of personal auto vehicles by improved Public Transport and massive improvement in NMT modes, before our cites are destroyed by automobiles. -- Sujit On 5/6/07, Martin Cassini wrote: > > In the interests of long-term survival, people need to find other ways > of getting about, work more from home, develop new energy sources. But > something can be done NOW to make an impact on climate change: scrap > traffic lights, the biggest gas-guzzlers of them all. From a Canadian > website: "If every driver in Canada avoided idling for 5 minutes a day, > 1.6 million tonnes of CO2 would not enter the atmosphere. It is > estimated that idling and stop-go traffic costs motorists 753 million > gallons of gas a year, or $1,194 per driver in wasted fuel and time." > But how do we avoid idling when traffic lights block progress in every > sense? (In haste again, sorry) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: > sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca.apc.org > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca. > apc.org] On Behalf Of Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory > Sent: 06 May 2007 11:54 > To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport > Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques > > > Martin Cassini wrote: > > Lots to say and little time but in brief: my sympathies and analysis > > are pro-planet and pro-freedom of choice/movement, but not anti-car. > I FIRMLY believer that is a contradiction. But to clarify one thing I am > > pro-appropriate transport, not anti-car. Except in cities. For me this > means: > * In the short- to medium-term: A gradual reduction in private cars > though various means, and a big increase in all the "alternative > transport" modes, from walking to carshare, and also support of small > carfree projects (both optically carfree and really carfree) > * In the medium-term: Densification of settlements, freeze and reduction > > on what many call "sprawl", continued development of carfree areas, > alternative transport improvements > * In the medium- to long-term: Complete transformation of all cities so > that cars are not desired and so not allowed. > > Cars are fine when used appropriately. > > Roughly > > speaking, traffic signals double congestion, journey times and fuel > > use (and they are responsible for much of the carnage on the roads), > AS you give one vague figure here ("double") are you saying that traffic > > signals double pollution within the wider scope of reducing > sustainability by half? I am not a traffic engineer, but it seems that > highways, freeways etc.. fill up no matter how wide they get, how many > lanes are added, and get jammed up, and all of this without the help of > traffic signals. > > so > > until clean cars are widely available, e.g. the compressed air car > > from France/Spain, > WHERE does the electricity come from for that? What kind of behaviour > does a car enable? Longer trips to the store, bigger refrigerators > because the store is far away... so high energy use. > > But more importantly, how does half of the things you mention above > compare to the total amount of pollution etc., caused by a doubling in > walking, public transport and cycling? If one-half of the carnage is > caused by traffic signals, then this means roughly *only* 600,000 people > > die on the roads each year due to collisions? This is acceptable to you? > > I am not even mentioning the air, noise and visual pollution part. > > scrapping lights would bring an immediate and significant reduction > > in greenhouse gas emissions. Moreover, lights cost a fortune to > > manufacture, install, maintain and run. What is the cost to the grid > > of the UK's galaxy of 24-hour lights? > REMEMBER, that I generally agree with you about there being too many > signals and signs. > > Todd, I like your point about > > facilitating life between buildings, > THANKS. > > but I question the social > > engineering element in some of your proposals. > AUTOmobilisation is one of the biggest social engineering projects ever! > > People are born in places which are already dominated by the car, so > their fates are already engineered. The good engineering continues, from > > the smallest regenerative braking system in a hybrid car to the > Interstate Highway System in the USA. And all the marketing and > advertising hocus pocus which makes people feel inadequate unless they > don't have a car. Toyota, etc. is very brilliant. All enabled by human > nature, e.g. peer pressure, to be sure. The engineers know that well. > > If people want to go > > further afield and carry stuff or passengers, > THERE are so many existing alternative solutions for this. You are > talking to me like I am from Mars. > > and go door-to-door, > DRIVE a car up to my door? Not in places with life between buildings. > Walking works, cycling too. > > Sorry, Martin, you are dreaming about resources which don't exist. I am > dreaming about using our resources in the most efficient, sustainable > and desirable way. > > DO you really think that we if we eliminating signals and perpetuating > the dominance of even tamed individual cars is a recipe for a > sustainable world? > > - T > > > > good > > luck to them! > > > > Martin > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: > > sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca.apc.or > > sustran-discuss-bounces+g > > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jc > > a. > > apc.org] On Behalf Of Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory > > Sent: 04 May 2007 16:36 > > To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport > > Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques > > > > > > Mr Cassini, > > > > It might interest you to know that the issue you discuss is one of the > > ideas for debate at Towards Carfree Cities in Istanbul late in August. > > > > > > > Debate: > > "Complete streets (see www.completestreets.org > > for more info) and shared space (see > > > "shared space" entry in Wikipedia) concepts vs. pedestrianisation" > > > > If you are interested in debating this or participating in some way > > please contact istanbul@worldcarfree.net > > > > > > I realise that Complete Streets and Shared Space are not the same > > thing. > > > > *** > > > > My own opinion, briefly, is that your concept of sharing without > > signals > > > > etc. is GREAT except that private automobiles are not sustainable on a > > global level and even carshare is not desirable as a long-term > solution > > because of the way that cars ensure that streets remain solely in the > > job of fulfilling transport duties, rather than a traditional and I > > think better role to facilitate life between buildings, with transport > > > not hindering this and only enabling it. To put it another way, a > street > > > > full of cars with drivers acting politely as possible still dominates > > the scene, even if collisions go down (and I have seen the videos of > > Shared Space and believe they do. I really do agree that people need > to > > make eye contact and so on. Signs are also ugly.). > > > > So, it is certainly better than the current situation but no long-term > > solution, or even a mid-term solution. > > > > But you also seem to say that it is the traffic signals which are > > making > > > > things difficult for polar bears, rather than the car traffic itself, > > no > > > > matter what speed it is operating at. This is really funny. Are you > > serious? > > > > It would be a fine system if there were no cars. In fact, this is the > > way it us 100-120 years ago. No signals, no signs, and no cars. > > > > So, I propose a compromise: No signals AND no cars. > > > > Hope to see you in Istanbul. If Mr. Irons can come too, it would be > > great, as long as he doesn't fly there. The polar bears would not > > approve. Or will you argue that airplanes should also not have > > restrictions? > > > > - T > > > > > > > > Martin Cassini wrote: > > > >> May I second Madhav's delightful point? As some of you know, my > >> frustration is with too much traffic regulation, which in my view is > >> counterproductive, makes roads dangerous and hostile, where the very > >> restraints - which go against the grain of human nature - set the > >> stage for conflict and congestion. I love what I see when lights are > >> out of action and there are no external controls - congestion > >> dissolving, courtesy thriving, everyone merging in a merry mix of > >> meandering movement, and the emergence of a new hierarchy, with > >> vulnerable road-users at the top. Perhaps there is an elegant > >> compromise to be found - some midway point between India and England > >> ... priority rules and regimented controls dropped in favour of > >> natural cooperation, where might is not right, and we adopt 1Q, > >> denoting single queueing and innate intelligence. > >> > >> Martin > >> www.goodfun.tv > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> *From:* > >> sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca.apc.o > >> sustran-discuss-bounces+r > >> sustran-discuss-bounces+g > >> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.j > >> c > >> a.apc.org] > >> *On Behalf Of *Madhav Badami, Prof. > >> *Sent:* 04 May 2007 15:00 > >> *To:* Global 'South' Sustainable Transport > >> *Subject:* [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, > >> > > mosques > > > >> Dear Carlos, > >> > >> Once the craziness of the academic term comes to an end, I > promise > >> a detailed response to Jonathan Richmond's (and others') postings > >> on the situation in India (and what we can and ought to do about > >> it). I will try and work elephants, cows and yoga -- but not > >> planes -- into my response as well :-). Meanwhile, I will leave > >> you with this personal viewpoint ... India is like life itself -- > >> joyous, sometimes sublime, and at the very same time, very messy, > >> even obscene, but never ever dull and boring. > >> > >> Madhav > >> > >> > >> > > -------------------------------------------- > > > > Todd Edelman > > Director > > Green Idea Factory > > > > Korunn? 72 > > CZ-10100 Praha 10 > > Czech Republic > > > > ++420 605 915 970 > > ++420 222 517 832 > > Skype: toddedelman > > > > edelman@greenidea.info > > > > Green Idea Factory, > > a member of World Carfree Network > > www.worldcarfree.net > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > > YAHOOGROUPS. > > > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss > > to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The > > yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post > > to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it > > seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > > > ================================================================ > > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing > > countries (the 'Global South'). > > > > > > > > > > > -- > -------------------------------------------- > > Todd Edelman > Director > Green Idea Factory > > Korunn? 72 > CZ-10100 Praha 10 > Czech Republic > > ++420 605 915 970 > ++420 222 517 832 > Skype: toddedelman > > edelman@greenidea.info > > Green Idea Factory, > a member of World Carfree Network > www.worldcarfree.net > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to > join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The > yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to > the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem > like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to > join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The > yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the > real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you > can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > -- ------------------------------------------------------ Sujit Patwardhan sujit@vsnl.com sujitjp@gmail.com "Yamuna", ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007 India Tel: 25537955 ----------------------------------------------------- Hon. Secretary: Parisar www.parisar.org ------------------------------------------------------ Founder Member: PTTF (Pune Traffic & Transportation Forum) www.pttf.net ------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070506/4467c02c/attachment.html From martincassini at blueyonder.co.uk Mon May 7 02:42:38 2007 From: martincassini at blueyonder.co.uk (Martin Cassini) Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 18:42:38 +0100 Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques In-Reply-To: <463E1177.30706@greenidea.info> Message-ID: <002901c79005$f2daf2e0$b83a2352@mc> Dashing out, but in the UK, about 30% of our CO2 output is from traffic. Prof David Begg admits that 40% of that is from traffic idling. How often does traffic idle at lights for no good reason? I live in King's Cross, and I would say a good (or bad!) half the time. Also you have to add the cost of manufacturing, installing, maintaining and RUNNING the galaxy of 24-hour lights - this alone represents a massive carbon footprint. If it wasn't for the lights, traffic would filter and flow, instead of continually stop, idle and re-start. Traffic volume can be a drama, but volume + controls = crisis. Martin -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca. apc.org] On Behalf Of Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory Sent: 06 May 2007 18:34 To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques Hi, Martin Cassini wrote: > In the interests of long-term survival, people need to find other ways > of getting about, work more from home, develop new energy sources. But > something can be done NOW to make an impact on climate change: scrap > traffic lights, the biggest gas-guzzlers of them all! From a Canadian > website: ?If every driver in Canada avoided idling for 5 minutes a > day, 1.6 million tonnes of CO2 would not enter the atmosphere. It is > estimated that idling and stop-go traffic costs motorists 753 million > gallons of gas a year, or $1,194 per driver in wasted fuel and time.? > But how do we avoid idling when traffic lights block progress in every > sense? (In haste again, sorry) > FIRST of all, you are conflating stop-go traffic and idling into one thing. Stop-go can be on roads where are there are no traffic lights, like freeways and highways. Second, you are saying that cars produce most of their CO2 because of the lights... the "biggest gas-guzzlers of them all"? That's nuts. Third, what people can do NOW is exercise some self-control rather than just depend on a lack of traffic lights to solve their personal carbon problems. - T > > -----Original Message----- > From: > sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca.apc.or > sustran-discuss-bounces+g > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jc > a. > apc.org] On Behalf Of Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory > Sent: 06 May 2007 11:54 > To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport > Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques > > > Martin Cassini wrote: > >> Lots to say and little time but in brief: my sympathies and analysis >> are pro-planet and pro-freedom of choice/movement, but not anti-car. >> > I FIRMLY believer that is a contradiction. But to clarify one thing I > am > > pro-appropriate transport, not anti-car. Except in cities. For me this > means: > * In the short- to medium-term: A gradual reduction in private cars > though various means, and a big increase in all the "alternative > transport" modes, from walking to carshare, and also support of small > carfree projects (both optically carfree and really carfree) > * In the medium-term: Densification of settlements, freeze and reduction > > on what many call "sprawl", continued development of carfree areas, > alternative transport improvements > * In the medium- to long-term: Complete transformation of all cities so > that cars are not desired and so not allowed. > > Cars are fine when used appropriately. > >> Roughly >> speaking, traffic signals double congestion, journey times and fuel >> use (and they are responsible for much of the carnage on the roads), >> > AS you give one vague figure here ("double") are you saying that > traffic > > signals double pollution within the wider scope of reducing > sustainability by half? I am not a traffic engineer, but it seems that > highways, freeways etc.. fill up no matter how wide they get, how many > lanes are added, and get jammed up, and all of this without the help of > traffic signals. > >> so >> until clean cars are widely available, e.g. the compressed air car >> from France/Spain, >> > WHERE does the electricity come from for that? What kind of behaviour > does a car enable? Longer trips to the store, bigger refrigerators > because the store is far away... so high energy use. > > But more importantly, how does half of the things you mention above > compare to the total amount of pollution etc., caused by a doubling in > walking, public transport and cycling? If one-half of the carnage is > caused by traffic signals, then this means roughly *only* 600,000 people > > die on the roads each year due to collisions? This is acceptable to > you? > > I am not even mentioning the air, noise and visual pollution part. > >> scrapping lights would bring an immediate and significant reduction >> in greenhouse gas emissions. Moreover, lights cost a fortune to >> manufacture, install, maintain and run. What is the cost to the grid >> of the UK's galaxy of 24-hour lights? >> > REMEMBER, that I generally agree with you about there being too many > signals and signs. > >> Todd, I like your point about >> facilitating life between buildings, >> > THANKS. > >> but I question the social >> engineering element in some of your proposals. >> > AUTOmobilisation is one of the biggest social engineering projects > ever! > > People are born in places which are already dominated by the car, so > their fates are already engineered. The good engineering continues, from > > the smallest regenerative braking system in a hybrid car to the > Interstate Highway System in the USA. And all the marketing and > advertising hocus pocus which makes people feel inadequate unless they > don't have a car. Toyota, etc. is very brilliant. All enabled by human > nature, e.g. peer pressure, to be sure. The engineers know that well. > >> If people want to go >> further afield and carry stuff or passengers, >> > THERE are so many existing alternative solutions for this. You are > talking to me like I am from Mars. > >> and go door-to-door, >> > DRIVE a car up to my door? Not in places with life between buildings. > Walking works, cycling too. > > Sorry, Martin, you are dreaming about resources which don't exist. I > am > dreaming about using our resources in the most efficient, sustainable > and desirable way. > > DO you really think that we if we eliminating signals and perpetuating > the dominance of even tamed individual cars is a recipe for a > sustainable world? > > - T > > > >> good >> luck to them! >> >> Martin >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: >> sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca.apc.o >> sustran-discuss-bounces+r >> sustran-discuss-bounces+g >> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.j >> c >> a. >> apc.org] On Behalf Of Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory >> Sent: 04 May 2007 16:36 >> To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport >> Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques >> >> >> Mr Cassini, >> >> It might interest you to know that the issue you discuss is one of >> the ideas for debate at Towards Carfree Cities in Istanbul late in >> August. >> > > >> >> >> Debate: >> "Complete streets (see www.completestreets.org >> for more info) and shared space >> (see >> > > >> "shared space" entry in Wikipedia) concepts vs. pedestrianisation" >> >> If you are interested in debating this or participating in some way >> please contact istanbul@worldcarfree.net >> >> >> I realise that Complete Streets and Shared Space are not the same >> thing. >> >> *** >> >> My own opinion, briefly, is that your concept of sharing without >> signals >> >> etc. is GREAT except that private automobiles are not sustainable on >> a global level and even carshare is not desirable as a long-term >> > solution > >> because of the way that cars ensure that streets remain solely in the >> job of fulfilling transport duties, rather than a traditional and I >> think better role to facilitate life between buildings, with transport >> > > >> not hindering this and only enabling it. To put it another way, a >> > street > >> full of cars with drivers acting politely as possible still dominates >> the scene, even if collisions go down (and I have seen the videos of >> Shared Space and believe they do. I really do agree that people need >> > to > >> make eye contact and so on. Signs are also ugly.). >> >> So, it is certainly better than the current situation but no >> long-term solution, or even a mid-term solution. >> >> But you also seem to say that it is the traffic signals which are >> making >> >> things difficult for polar bears, rather than the car traffic itself, >> no >> >> matter what speed it is operating at. This is really funny. Are you >> serious? >> >> It would be a fine system if there were no cars. In fact, this is the >> way it us 100-120 years ago. No signals, no signs, and no cars. >> >> So, I propose a compromise: No signals AND no cars. >> >> Hope to see you in Istanbul. If Mr. Irons can come too, it would be >> great, as long as he doesn't fly there. The polar bears would not >> approve. Or will you argue that airplanes should also not have >> restrictions? >> >> - T >> >> >> >> Martin Cassini wrote: >> >> >>> May I second Madhav's delightful point? As some of you know, my >>> frustration is with too much traffic regulation, which in my view is >>> counterproductive, makes roads dangerous and hostile, where the very >>> restraints - which go against the grain of human nature - set the >>> stage for conflict and congestion. I love what I see when lights are >>> out of action and there are no external controls - congestion >>> dissolving, courtesy thriving, everyone merging in a merry mix of >>> meandering movement, and the emergence of a new hierarchy, with >>> vulnerable road-users at the top. Perhaps there is an elegant >>> compromise to be found - some midway point between India and England >>> ... priority rules and regimented controls dropped in favour of >>> natural cooperation, where might is not right, and we adopt 1Q, >>> denoting single queueing and innate intelligence. >>> >>> Martin >>> www.goodfun.tv >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> *From:* >>> sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca.apc. >>> sustran-discuss-bounces+o >>> sustran-discuss-bounces+r >>> sustran-discuss-bounces+g >>> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list. >>> j >>> c >>> a.apc.org] >>> *On Behalf Of *Madhav Badami, Prof. >>> *Sent:* 04 May 2007 15:00 >>> *To:* Global 'South' Sustainable Transport >>> *Subject:* [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, >>> >>> >> mosques >> >> >>> Dear Carlos, >>> >>> Once the craziness of the academic term comes to an end, I >>> > promise > >>> a detailed response to Jonathan Richmond's (and others') postings >>> on the situation in India (and what we can and ought to do about >>> it). I will try and work elephants, cows and yoga -- but not >>> planes -- into my response as well :-). Meanwhile, I will leave >>> you with this personal viewpoint ... India is like life itself -- >>> joyous, sometimes sublime, and at the very same time, very messy, >>> even obscene, but never ever dull and boring. >>> >>> Madhav >>> >>> >>> >>> >> -------------------------------------------- >> >> Todd Edelman >> Director >> Green Idea Factory >> >> Korunn? 72 >> CZ-10100 Praha 10 >> Czech Republic >> >> ++420 605 915 970 >> ++420 222 517 832 >> Skype: toddedelman >> >> edelman@greenidea.info >> >> Green Idea Factory, >> a member of World Carfree Network >> www.worldcarfree.net >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via >> YAHOOGROUPS. >> >> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss >> to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The >> yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post >> to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it >> seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. >> >> ================================================================ >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing >> countries (the 'Global South'). >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman edelman@greenidea.info Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From SCHIPPER at wri.org Mon May 7 03:12:29 2007 From: SCHIPPER at wri.org (Lee Schipper) Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 14:12:29 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques In-Reply-To: <463E1177.30706@greenidea.info> References: <002201c78ffd$f1a3a500$b83a2352@mc> <463E1177.30706@greenidea.info> Message-ID: <463DE24D02000038000056B8@HERMES.wri.org> There are about 35 mn drivers in Canada, so 753 gallons total (if you believe it is that high) works out to about 21 gallons/driver, which, at Canadian prices of $4 CDN/US gallon give us about $88/driver, hardly a princely sum! Lee Schipper Director of Research EMBARQ, the WRI Center for Sustainable Transport 10 G St. NE Washington DC, 20002 +1202 729 7735 FAX +1202 7297775 www.embarq.wri.org >>> "Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory" 5/6/2007 1:33:43 PM >>> Hi, Martin Cassini wrote: > In the interests of long-term survival, people need to find other ways > of getting about, work more from home, develop new energy sources. But > something can be done NOW to make an impact on climate change: scrap > traffic lights, the biggest gas-guzzlers of them all! From a Canadian > website: ?If every driver in Canada avoided idling for 5 minutes a day, > 1.6 million tonnes of CO2 would not enter the atmosphere. It is > estimated that idling and stop-go traffic costs motorists 753 million > gallons of gas a year, or $1,194 per driver in wasted fuel and time.? > But how do we avoid idling when traffic lights block progress in every > sense? (In haste again, sorry) > FIRST of all, you are conflating stop-go traffic and idling into one thing. Stop-go can be on roads where are there are no traffic lights, like freeways and highways. Second, you are saying that cars produce most of their CO2 because of the lights... the "biggest gas-guzzlers of them all"? That's nuts. Third, what people can do NOW is exercise some self-control rather than just depend on a lack of traffic lights to solve their personal carbon problems. - T > > -----Original Message----- > From: > sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca.apc.org > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca. > apc.org] On Behalf Of Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory > Sent: 06 May 2007 11:54 > To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport > Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques > > > Martin Cassini wrote: > >> Lots to say and little time but in brief: my sympathies and analysis >> are pro-planet and pro-freedom of choice/movement, but not anti-car. >> > I FIRMLY believer that is a contradiction. But to clarify one thing I am > > pro-appropriate transport, not anti-car. Except in cities. For me this > means: > * In the short- to medium-term: A gradual reduction in private cars > though various means, and a big increase in all the "alternative > transport" modes, from walking to carshare, and also support of small > carfree projects (both optically carfree and really carfree) > * In the medium-term: Densification of settlements, freeze and reduction > > on what many call "sprawl", continued development of carfree areas, > alternative transport improvements > * In the medium- to long-term: Complete transformation of all cities so > that cars are not desired and so not allowed. > > Cars are fine when used appropriately. > >> Roughly >> speaking, traffic signals double congestion, journey times and fuel >> use (and they are responsible for much of the carnage on the roads), >> > AS you give one vague figure here ("double") are you saying that traffic > > signals double pollution within the wider scope of reducing > sustainability by half? I am not a traffic engineer, but it seems that > highways, freeways etc.. fill up no matter how wide they get, how many > lanes are added, and get jammed up, and all of this without the help of > traffic signals. > >> so >> until clean cars are widely available, e.g. the compressed air car >> from France/Spain, >> > WHERE does the electricity come from for that? What kind of behaviour > does a car enable? Longer trips to the store, bigger refrigerators > because the store is far away... so high energy use. > > But more importantly, how does half of the things you mention above > compare to the total amount of pollution etc., caused by a doubling in > walking, public transport and cycling? If one-half of the carnage is > caused by traffic signals, then this means roughly *only* 600,000 people > > die on the roads each year due to collisions? This is acceptable to you? > > I am not even mentioning the air, noise and visual pollution part. > >> scrapping lights would bring an immediate and significant reduction >> in greenhouse gas emissions. Moreover, lights cost a fortune to >> manufacture, install, maintain and run. What is the cost to the grid >> of the UK's galaxy of 24-hour lights? >> > REMEMBER, that I generally agree with you about there being too many > signals and signs. > >> Todd, I like your point about >> facilitating life between buildings, >> > THANKS. > >> but I question the social >> engineering element in some of your proposals. >> > AUTOmobilisation is one of the biggest social engineering projects ever! > > People are born in places which are already dominated by the car, so > their fates are already engineered. The good engineering continues, from > > the smallest regenerative braking system in a hybrid car to the > Interstate Highway System in the USA. And all the marketing and > advertising hocus pocus which makes people feel inadequate unless they > don't have a car. Toyota, etc. is very brilliant. All enabled by human > nature, e.g. peer pressure, to be sure. The engineers know that well. > >> If people want to go >> further afield and carry stuff or passengers, >> > THERE are so many existing alternative solutions for this. You are > talking to me like I am from Mars. > >> and go door-to-door, >> > DRIVE a car up to my door? Not in places with life between buildings. > Walking works, cycling too. > > Sorry, Martin, you are dreaming about resources which don't exist. I am > dreaming about using our resources in the most efficient, sustainable > and desirable way. > > DO you really think that we if we eliminating signals and perpetuating > the dominance of even tamed individual cars is a recipe for a > sustainable world? > > - T > > > >> good >> luck to them! >> >> Martin >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: >> sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca.apc.or >> sustran-discuss-bounces+g >> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jc >> a. >> apc.org] On Behalf Of Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory >> Sent: 04 May 2007 16:36 >> To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport >> Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques >> >> >> Mr Cassini, >> >> It might interest you to know that the issue you discuss is one of the >> ideas for debate at Towards Carfree Cities in Istanbul late in August. >> > > >> >> >> Debate: >> "Complete streets (see www.completestreets.org >> for more info) and shared space (see >> > > >> "shared space" entry in Wikipedia) concepts vs. pedestrianisation" >> >> If you are interested in debating this or participating in some way >> please contact istanbul@worldcarfree.net >> >> >> I realise that Complete Streets and Shared Space are not the same >> thing. >> >> *** >> >> My own opinion, briefly, is that your concept of sharing without >> signals >> >> etc. is GREAT except that private automobiles are not sustainable on a >> global level and even carshare is not desirable as a long-term >> > solution > >> because of the way that cars ensure that streets remain solely in the >> job of fulfilling transport duties, rather than a traditional and I >> think better role to facilitate life between buildings, with transport >> > > >> not hindering this and only enabling it. To put it another way, a >> > street > >> full of cars with drivers acting politely as possible still dominates >> the scene, even if collisions go down (and I have seen the videos of >> Shared Space and believe they do. I really do agree that people need >> > to > >> make eye contact and so on. Signs are also ugly.). >> >> So, it is certainly better than the current situation but no long-term >> solution, or even a mid-term solution. >> >> But you also seem to say that it is the traffic signals which are >> making >> >> things difficult for polar bears, rather than the car traffic itself, >> no >> >> matter what speed it is operating at. This is really funny. Are you >> serious? >> >> It would be a fine system if there were no cars. In fact, this is the >> way it us 100-120 years ago. No signals, no signs, and no cars. >> >> So, I propose a compromise: No signals AND no cars. >> >> Hope to see you in Istanbul. If Mr. Irons can come too, it would be >> great, as long as he doesn't fly there. The polar bears would not >> approve. Or will you argue that airplanes should also not have >> restrictions? >> >> - T >> >> >> >> Martin Cassini wrote: >> >> >>> May I second Madhav's delightful point? As some of you know, my >>> frustration is with too much traffic regulation, which in my view is >>> counterproductive, makes roads dangerous and hostile, where the very >>> restraints - which go against the grain of human nature - set the >>> stage for conflict and congestion. I love what I see when lights are >>> out of action and there are no external controls - congestion >>> dissolving, courtesy thriving, everyone merging in a merry mix of >>> meandering movement, and the emergence of a new hierarchy, with >>> vulnerable road-users at the top. Perhaps there is an elegant >>> compromise to be found - some midway point between India and England >>> ... priority rules and regimented controls dropped in favour of >>> natural cooperation, where might is not right, and we adopt 1Q, >>> denoting single queueing and innate intelligence. >>> >>> Martin >>> www.goodfun.tv >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> *From:* >>> sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca.apc.o >>> sustran-discuss-bounces+r >>> sustran-discuss-bounces+g >>> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.j >>> c >>> a.apc.org] >>> *On Behalf Of *Madhav Badami, Prof. >>> *Sent:* 04 May 2007 15:00 >>> *To:* Global 'South' Sustainable Transport >>> *Subject:* [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, >>> >>> >> mosques >> >> >>> Dear Carlos, >>> >>> Once the craziness of the academic term comes to an end, I >>> > promise > >>> a detailed response to Jonathan Richmond's (and others') postings >>> on the situation in India (and what we can and ought to do about >>> it). I will try and work elephants, cows and yoga -- but not >>> planes -- into my response as well :-). Meanwhile, I will leave >>> you with this personal viewpoint ... India is like life itself -- >>> joyous, sometimes sublime, and at the very same time, very messy, >>> even obscene, but never ever dull and boring. >>> >>> Madhav >>> >>> >>> >>> >> -------------------------------------------- >> >> Todd Edelman >> Director >> Green Idea Factory >> >> Korunn? 72 >> CZ-10100 Praha 10 >> Czech Republic >> >> ++420 605 915 970 >> ++420 222 517 832 >> Skype: toddedelman >> >> edelman@greenidea.info >> >> Green Idea Factory, >> a member of World Carfree Network >> www.worldcarfree.net >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via >> YAHOOGROUPS. >> >> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss >> to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The >> yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post >> to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it >> seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. >> >> ================================================================ >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing >> countries (the 'Global South'). >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman edelman@greenidea.info Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From markus at sander.ms Mon May 7 03:38:18 2007 From: markus at sander.ms (Markus Sander) Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 20:38:18 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques In-Reply-To: <002201c78ffd$f1a3a500$b83a2352@mc> References: <463DB3CA.6030700@greenidea.info> <002201c78ffd$f1a3a500$b83a2352@mc> Message-ID: <20070506183818.GA15668@sander.ms> On Sun, May 06, 2007 at 05:45:24PM +0100, Martin Cassini wrote: > website: ?If every driver in Canada avoided idling for 5 minutes a day, > 1.6 million tonnes of CO2 would not enter the atmosphere. It is Thats not true. There is a constant in traffic: The time how long people are on their way: about 90 minutes average every day. If you avoid idling, the long term effect will be longer ways, including sprawl and the same car affecting a wider area with noise and danger. -- (c) markus -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 307 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070506/290b6560/attachment.bin From martincassini at blueyonder.co.uk Mon May 7 07:04:30 2007 From: martincassini at blueyonder.co.uk (Martin Cassini) Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 23:04:30 +0100 Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques In-Reply-To: <20070506183818.GA15668@sander.ms> Message-ID: <003001c7902a$855c18a0$b83a2352@mc> Could the assertion that the long term effect of eliminating idling "will be longer ways, etc" have more to do with dogma than logic? -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca. apc.org] On Behalf Of Markus Sander Sent: 06 May 2007 19:38 To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques On Sun, May 06, 2007 at 05:45:24PM +0100, Martin Cassini wrote: > website: "If every driver in Canada avoided idling for 5 minutes a > day, 1.6 million tonnes of CO2 would not enter the atmosphere. It is Thats not true. There is a constant in traffic: The time how long people are on their way: about 90 minutes average every day. If you avoid idling, the long term effect will be longer ways, including sprawl and the same car affecting a wider area with noise and danger. -- (c) markus From sri at giaspn01.vsnl.net.in Sat May 5 12:36:57 2007 From: sri at giaspn01.vsnl.net.in (Prof J G Krishnayya) Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 09:06:57 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: Transantiago - Is this a project of which we all need toknow more? YES! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000601c78ec6$af1116b0$bf5641db@JGK> Thank you Eric for bringing this to our attention. Exceedingly good review article. Fair and Open. This is what happens even when there is a long, careful and good design ? and when reliable organisations like TCS are in charge of some of the projected work! I think it is VERY IMPORTANT that we learn from this that anything that can go wrong, WILL, and that trying to implement a complete solution all-at-once simply will not work the way it is envisaged. It seems to me the original plan WAS feasible. They DID buy the busses (the easiest step); The 80-seater Volvo busses seem to be the same ones ordered for Pune BRT. We were too afraid to order the articulated ones. A better implementation would have been to delay things for several months (during which regional trials were done; the charge-cards were tested, etc.) The Charge cards vs cash introduce real problems in re. collection of fares, absence of conductors, etc. I wonder if it would ever be feasible to switch-over from a simple manual system with conductors and cash fares to a pre-paid charge-card system. Certainly not in India. I feel they ought to have implemented the system from outside inward. I.e. first in the ?local? municipalities and then linked up to the ?Main system? which might have been run independently for the first few months. Interchangeable fares from Metro and Bus seem a good idea and entirely workable. This is a case study which would repay a lot of study. Maybe we in Pune (India) could contact TCS and use their presence in Santiago to write a Case Study. They too should be interested since their experience with the GPS system (not operational after all) would set them up for many other projects. J G Krishnayya ==================== Prof J G Krishnayya Director, Systems Research Institute, 17-A Gultekdi, PUNE 411037, India www.sripune.org Tel +91-20-2426-0323 jkrishnayya@yahoo.com Res 020-2636-3930 sri@giaspn01.vsnl.net.in Fax +91-20-2444-7902 -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+sri=pn1.vsnl.net.in@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+sri=pn1.vsnl.net.in@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of Eric Britton Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 9:05 PM To: WTP&P List; NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups. com; Sustran Resource Centre Cc: Peter Ekenger; Carlos Felipe Pardo; Lloyd Wright Subject: [sustran] Transantiago - Is this a project of which we all need to know more? I have been getting a number of requests from people and groups asking if I can help them get a handle on the Transantiago project, and recently someone ? might it have been you Lloyd? ? said that it would be a good idea if we created some kind of repository of information or references which might help in an informed and neutral way. One idea that comes to mind would be to invite all of those of you who have good knowledge on what is going on to jump in and help make the entries in both the English and Spanish versions of Wikipedia more authoritative, accurate and complete. The Spanish profile is at http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transantiago and looks to me to be a fine beginning, and this despite the fact that one of the ?editors? has challenged it authenticity and neutrality (NPOV). I copy below the shorter English version from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transantiago to give you a whiff of what they think it?s all about. At the very least it strikes me as a cautionary tale, and certainly one that is worthy of the attention of those of us who may harbor ambitious ideas about how to bring on the New Mobility Agenda. And I am sure that some of our friends in the sutp-lac group will have some interesting observations and references to add to this. Eric Britton Transantiago >From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation , search This article documents a current event . Information may change rapidly as the event progresses. An articulated bus of the new Transantiago system An articulated bus of the new Transantiago system Transantiago is the public transport system that serves Santiago , capital city of Chile . It was introduced on 10 February 2007 , replacing the previous chaotic system run by thousands of independent bus operators. The system works by combining local bus lines, main bus lines and the Metro (subway) network. It includes an integrated fare system, which allows passengers to make bus-to-bus or bus-to-metro transfers for the price of one ticket, using a single contactless smartcard . Transantiago's implementation has been problematic. Some of the bus companies have not put out the required fleet in operation, making the bus headway irregular and generating large crowds and long queues outside Metro stations and bus stops. The fleet management software (which includes the use of GPS ) has not been implemented. Segregated bus corridors have also not been constructed and "paid zones" have been improvised. The lack of trust by users in the bus system has overcrowded the Metro. There is also criticism of a lack of line coverage in the citiy's peripheral areas, which were well covered under the previous system. Contents [hide ] * 1 Details * 1.1 Objectives * 1.2 New lines structure * 1.3 New fare structure * 1.4 Payment system and finance administration * 1.5 Users' information * 2 Vehicles * 2.1 Technical characteristics of the vehicles * 3 Problems and criticism * 4 References * 5 External links [edit ] 1 Details Transantiago's first stage of implementation began on 22 October 2005 , when a group of ten new companies took control of the capital's bus system, immediately introducing 1,181 new modern low-floor buses (approximately half of them being articulated ) made by Volvo in Brazil , replacing 461 yellow-colored buses from the old system. The new buses will temporarily coexist with the over 7,000 existing older buses, that will be gradually withdrawn from the system until 2010. In October 2006 a users' information system was introduced. Transantiago became fully operational on 10 February 2007 by the introduction of a new route system dividing bus lines into two complementary groups: main and local lines. In addition, a new fare structure was implemented, allowing transfers at small or zero fares between buses and metro, when using the new contactless smartcard . 1,776 new buses will operate at this stage. The older yellow-colored (now painted over) buses will only operate through the secondary local lines in conjunction with new but simpler buses. It is expected that by 2010 , the older buses will be completely replaced by over 4,600 new vehicles. [edit ] 1.1 Objectives * Encouraging the use of public transport. * Enhancing the quality of public transport, eliminating the on-the-street competition and replacing the existing bus fleet. * Palliating the city's high air pollution and sound pollution levels by reducing the number of buses from over 7,000 to about 4,600, and by reducing the emission levels of the buses. * Reducing travel times. [edit ] 1.2 New lines structure Bus services were divided into two subsystems. The first subsystem corresponds to the main bus lines, which complementing the metro network allow long trips between different zones of the city. The second subsystem corresponds to the local (or feeder) bus lines, which allow short trips and feed the metro and main bus lines. Local services are organized in ten units, each of one corresponding to one or more municipalities of Santiago. A Santiago Centro B Conchal? , Huechuraba , Independencia , Quilicura , Recoleta , Renca C Las Condes, Lo Barnechea , Providencia , Vitacura D La Reina , Macul , ?u?oa , Pe?alol?n E La Florida, La Granja F Puente Alto G El Bosque , La Cisterna, La Pintana , San Bernardo , San Ram?n H Lo Espejo , Pedro Aguirre Cerda , San Joaqu?n, San Miguel I Cerrillos , Estaci?n Central , Maip? J Cerro Navia, Lo Prado, Pudahuel , Quinta Normal Map of the zones of Transantiago The details of both the main bus lines and the local bus lines can be seen in the official maps and route descriptions. [edit ] 1.3 New fare structure An integrated fares scheme was introduced for buses and metro, allowing to transfer for free or paying a small transfer charge. During the first six months of operation, up to three transfers are completely free. The definitive fare scheme considers two basic fares (local and main fares), in addition to the transfer fares. The local fare will allow local trips inside a local area, also allowing free transfers between local services in that area. The main fare will be a little higher and will allow trips both in the main bus lines and metro, including free transfers between them. Finally, a transfer fare will have to be paid when transferring between a main bus service (or metro) and a local service. This transfer fare will be much smaller than the basic fares. As was before, students will be allowed to pay reduced fares, at 35% of the normal ones. Fares will be adjusted periodically, according to the changes in the main input prices (fuel, etc.) of the operators. The way in which the fare adjustments is calculated has been established in the operation contracts. Therefore, neither operators nor the authorities are able to change the fares at will. [edit ] 1.4 Payment system and finance administration The main payment system of Transantiago is a contactless smartcard called tarjeta Bip! similar to the Multivia card, which was previously operated by the metro. This card is used both in buses and metro as a prepaid card. The access to the reduced or free transfer fares is only possible when using this card, as the electronic system associated to the card automatically recognizes if the user is starting his trip or just making a transfer. In this way, the system can decide if the basic fare has to be charged or if a transfer or free fare applies. Passengers who do not have the card may pay in cash (only in feeder buses), but a higher fare without possibility of reduced transfers. The operation of the payment system was tendered to a private company. Its main tasks are the distribution and charging of the card, the administration of the revenues and the payment to the operators, according to the rules established in the contracts. [edit ] 1.5 Users' information Another component of the system is the information manager and users' information provider, which was tendered and awarded to the private company Tata Consultancy Services Chile in 2006. Its main tasks are: provide information for the users both before and after the implementation of the system, provide information about the localization of the buses to the operators and coordinate emergencies with the relevant bodies. [edit ] 2 Vehicles Until 2010 there will be both new Transantiago-standard and old buses in operation. In comparison to the old buses of Santiago, at least half the new ones have a low floor, and all have a blocking system that does not allow the movement of the bus before all doors are closed. Since 2003, all new buses in Santiago fulfill the emission norm Euro III . After the implementation of the new lines structure, the main bus lines will be operated with articulated (18 meters long) and normal buses, while the local services will be operated with normal buses and minibuses. [edit ] 2.1 Technical characteristics of the vehicles Most of the low-floor buses for Transantiago were built by Volvo . Several operating companies of Transantiago bought 1,157 articulated buses B9SALF and 510 normal (12 meters long) buses B7RLE . The articulated B9SALF Volvo bus has a capacity of approximately 160 passengers, four double doors, 100% low floor, a length of 18.5 meters and a width of 2.5 meters. The engine is on the left side between the first and second axles (i.e. behind the driver) and 340hp hp . (More technical information can be found in the technical specifications of the Volvo B9SALF .) The Volvo B7RLE bus, with a capacity of approximately 80 passengers, has three double doors and low floor between the first and second doors. It has a length of 12 meters and a wide of 2.5 meters. The engine is in the back of the vehicle and has 7,000 cm?. (Additional technical information can be found in the technical specifications of the Volvo B7RLE .) [edit ] 3 Problems and criticism There are several problems with the design and implementation of the plan. Bus owners' contracts offer no incentive to improve service; they receive a fixed payment no matter how many passengers they transport. The centralized system for controlling frequency of buses is not working (the GPS system is non-operational), which was a main point in the original design. Passenger fare evasion is high (30% or more). Many people consider the service to be poor and are not willing to pay for it. Others are taking advantage of the situation. Routes were poorly defined. For example, when the system launched, there weren't bus stops by many hospitals. Although polls have shown the citizens of Santiago were overwhelmingly in favor of a new transport system[1] , its implementation was heavily criticized for not meeting up to people's expectations. The system's first days in operation were chaotic at many of the bus stops, since there were not enough buses to cope with the demand. Additionally, many complained that the old bus routes were easier and faster, a claim confirmed to an extent in an investigation by El Mercurio, which found that most of the new routes took more time than the ones in the older system. Politicians in both sides of the political spectrum ?from Communist Party Secretary General Guillermo Tellier to right-wing UDI deputy Iv?n Moreira ? criticized the implementation of the new system, labeling it "improvised" and "unprofessional." Support for President Michelle Bachelet's government in Santiago fell from 55.2% in February to 42.7% in March , after the Transantiago began operating, according to the monthly Adimark polls. Political analysts attributed the fall solely to the Transantiago, saying that there is no other possible cause for the dramatic fall in support [2] . A poll taken by Benchmark agency, requested by the opposition, showed that 47% did not approve of the implementation of Transantiago, 64% labeled the implementation as "improvised", and 53% disapproved of the way President Bachelet handled the situation. Many people have also blamed former president Ricardo Lagos , because it was his government that was responsible for the system's design. One consequence of Transantiago is that the Metro system, which was to be a backbone of the system, has been overwhelmed with over six users per square meter. The increase in usage was reported by La Tercera on 21 March 2007 as having increased from 1,300,000 to 2,200,000 and Metro president Blas Tomic was quoted as saying: "The capacity of metro has reached its limit" and recommended that the elderly and users with medical conditions stay off the system. The government has defended the plan as necessary for a better transport system, adding it will improve as people become more used to it, adding everything is being done to improve it. [edit ] 4 References * Gschwender, Antonio (2005) Improving the urban public transport in developing countries: the design of a new integrated system in Santiago de Chile. 9th Conference of Competition and Ownership in Land Transport (Thredbo9), Lisbon, Portugal. * Minteguiaga, Jorge (2006) Transantiago: redesigning public transport in Santiago, Chile. Public Transport International, 55, 6/2006, 16-19. ISSN-1016-796X. 1. ^ http://www.atinachile.cl/content/view/4713 2. ^ http://www.emol.com/noticias/nacional/detalle/detallenoticias.asp?idnoti cia=248232 [edit ] 5 External links * Official site of Transantiago (Spanish) * Transantiago Chile: Educational and Analytical Information (Spanish) * Full Official map of Transantiago (Spanish) * Official site of the contactless smartcard tarjeta Bip! (Spanish) * Study from CEP Chile - Santiago Buses: From Public Enemy to Public Service (Spanish) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070505/880b5379/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.gif Type: image/gif Size: 1525 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070505/880b5379/image001.gif -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 49022 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070505/880b5379/image002.jpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.gif Type: image/gif Size: 648 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070505/880b5379/image003.gif -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image004.gif Type: image/gif Size: 14856 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070505/880b5379/image004.gif From arulgreen at yahoo.com Mon May 7 04:40:10 2007 From: arulgreen at yahoo.com (arul rathinam) Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 12:40:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sustran] Invitation ??? CHENNAI - Towards People's Master Plan 2026 - Consultation on the Second Master Plan for Chennai Metropolitan Area Message-ID: <365750.74247.qm@web51109.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Invitation "Towards People's Master Plan 2026 - Consultation on the Second Master Plan for Chennai Metropolitan Area" Date & Time: Tuesday 08. 05. 2007 at 10.00 am Venue: Vani Mahal, GN Chetty Road. T. Nagar, Chennai Programme: Presidential Address: Mrs. Sowmiya Anbumani, President, Pasumai Thaayagam Special Address: Dr. S. Ramadoss, Founder, Pasumai Thaayagam Key note address and presentation on Second Master Plan: Mr. M.G. Devasahayam IAS (Rtd) Panel Discussion: Panelists: Ms. Tara Murali, Architect, Managing Trustee, CAG Prof. Anantharajan, Professor (Rtd), Anna University Mr. Anand R. Doss, Former Member ??? Chief Planner, CMDA Mr. M. Subash Chandra, ITPI Tamil Nadu Regional Chairman Mr. K. Ramachandran, Journalist Ms. Jayashree Venkatesan, CareEarth With regards R.ARUL, (94443 44331) Secretary, PASUMAI THAAYAGAM (Green Mother Land), No. 9,(old No: 5), Lyn wood Lane, Mahalingapuram, CHENNAI -600 034, Tamil Nadu, INDIA. Ph: 044 ??? 2817 2120 Email: mailtopt@gmail.com www.chennai2026.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From markus at sander.ms Mon May 7 16:56:18 2007 From: markus at sander.ms (Markus Sander) Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 09:56:18 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques In-Reply-To: <003001c7902a$855c18a0$b83a2352@mc> References: <20070506183818.GA15668@sander.ms> <003001c7902a$855c18a0$b83a2352@mc> Message-ID: <20070507075618.GA18174@sander.ms> On Sun, May 06, 2007 at 11:04:30PM +0100, Martin Cassini wrote: > Could the assertion that the long term effect of eliminating idling > "will be longer ways, etc" have more to do with dogma than logic? No, just transportation science and mathematics. Could it be that your statements base on lack of the first one? If you know that the average time people participate in traffic is constant for hundrets of years, many transportation issuses get very simple and obvisious. -- (c) markus From martincassini at blueyonder.co.uk Mon May 7 18:54:46 2007 From: martincassini at blueyonder.co.uk (Martin Cassini) Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 10:54:46 +0100 Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques In-Reply-To: <20070507075618.GA18174@sander.ms> Message-ID: <000201c7908d$be9b8480$b83a2352@mc> Markus, Sorry if my dogma/logic posting was rather glib. I don't claim to be an expert. I just have my doubts about the claim that traffic will expand to fill the available road space is true. There are thousands of miles of virtually empty roads even here in the UK. It seems to me that misguided priority rules, limited junction capacity and artificial barriers to traffic flow and dispersal are at the root of many of our congestion problems. (From a forthcoming article in Traffic Technology International:) I used to commute between London and Cambridge by National Express. Buses too have to idle, often pointlessly, at lights. Approaching the London end of the M11, 6-mile-long tailbacks were routine. It wasn't just that 3 lanes became two and then one. As we inched east along the North Circular, the cause of the extended queue became apparent: lights at Redbridge roundabout. Each leg had its allotted green time. Although we were the main stream, we got just 12 seconds. Reaction times alone squander 13% of every minute Priority from the right, as at roundabouts, is wrong too because it denies our instinct to give way to people who were there first. Moreover, it can produce a "need" for lights at roundabouts ... And the authorities blame us for climate change! BW Martin -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca. apc.org] On Behalf Of Markus Sander Sent: 07 May 2007 08:56 To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques On Sun, May 06, 2007 at 11:04:30PM +0100, Martin Cassini wrote: > Could the assertion that the long term effect of eliminating idling > "will be longer ways, etc" have more to do with dogma than logic? No, just transportation science and mathematics. Could it be that your statements base on lack of the first one? If you know that the average time people participate in traffic is constant for hundrets of years, many transportation issuses get very simple and obvisious. -- (c) markus -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070507/96b79261/attachment.html From markus at sander.ms Mon May 7 20:57:05 2007 From: markus at sander.ms (Markus Sander) Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 13:57:05 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques In-Reply-To: <000201c7908d$be9b8480$b83a2352@mc> References: <20070507075618.GA18174@sander.ms> <000201c7908d$be9b8480$b83a2352@mc> Message-ID: <20070507115705.GA18841@sander.ms> Hi Martin, > I just have my doubts about the claim that traffic will expand > to fill the available road space is true. There are thousands of miles > of virtually empty roads even here in the UK. It seems to me that Of course it's not true for every road everywhere. It occurs where traffic problems are solved by making traffic 'faster', e.g. by reducing idle times, increasing speed, etc. This is just 'curing symptoms' and worseing of the causes. Idle times are an *effect* of traffic problems, not the *cause*. If you eliminate idle time, the road capacity will be higher. Short term local effect: less congestion, shorter traveling time. Long term global effect: Congestion at the next bottle neck, longer ways. The winners are supermarkets and employer - they can centralize into shopping centres and business parks. The losers are people that life between residential area and those centres. Also all commuters 'lose', because they have to pay for their car, the roads and so on that otherwise would be unnecassary (= if there was a 'walkable' infrastructure). -- (c) markus From martincassini at blueyonder.co.uk Mon May 7 21:18:13 2007 From: martincassini at blueyonder.co.uk (Martin Cassini) Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 13:18:13 +0100 Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques In-Reply-To: <20070507115705.GA18841@sander.ms> Message-ID: <000d01c790a1$c8ff7df0$b83a2352@mc> Thanks Marcus. Perhaps I'm ploughing a different, though related, furrow. I'm not nailing my intuition to any particular mast, but I suppose believe in a kind of Gaia principle: the ability of humans to find an optimum level of efficiency and quality of life without much overt interference. With increasing awareness of the undesirable consequences of burning oil, plus laudable lobbying by car-free groups, plus moves towards sustainable energy sources and living modes, plus more compact and interesting urban developments, it seems to me that urban sprawl and over-reliance on car use will soon be perceived as undesirable roads to nowhere, and it will all come right in the end. So I prefer a live-and-let live approach with minimum coercion and maximum enlightenment (if that makes any sense ...) Martin -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca. apc.org] On Behalf Of Markus Sander Sent: 07 May 2007 12:57 To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques Hi Martin, > I just have my doubts about the claim that traffic will expand to fill > the available road space is true. There are thousands of miles of > virtually empty roads even here in the UK. It seems to me that Of course it's not true for every road everywhere. It occurs where traffic problems are solved by making traffic 'faster', e.g. by reducing idle times, increasing speed, etc. This is just 'curing symptoms' and worseing of the causes. Idle times are an *effect* of traffic problems, not the *cause*. If you eliminate idle time, the road capacity will be higher. Short term local effect: less congestion, shorter traveling time. Long term global effect: Congestion at the next bottle neck, longer ways. The winners are supermarkets and employer - they can centralize into shopping centres and business parks. The losers are people that life between residential area and those centres. Also all commuters 'lose', because they have to pay for their car, the roads and so on that otherwise would be unnecassary (= if there was a 'walkable' infrastructure). -- (c) markus -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From litman at vtpi.org Tue May 8 02:56:31 2007 From: litman at vtpi.org (Todd Alexander Litman) Date: Mon, 07 May 2007 10:56:31 -0700 Subject: [sustran] Fuel consumed by idling In-Reply-To: <002901c79005$f2daf2e0$b83a2352@mc> References: <463E1177.30706@greenidea.info> <002901c79005$f2daf2e0$b83a2352@mc> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20070507104139.038c6b10@mail.islandnet.com> Please cite sources for the claim that 40% of fuel is used from idling. I suspect that it is a misinterpretation of the data. A typical vehicle consumes about a tenth as much fuel per unit of time while idling as under load (typically about 1 liter per hour for a car and 2 liters an hour for a large truck). If an average vehicle is driven 1 hour per day and idles 5 minutes, idling represents about 1% of total fuel consumption. I think Cassini may be confusing idling with stop-and-go driving conditions, but I'm skeptical that the traffic management strategies he advocates would actually increase traffic efficiencies. I think there is a good case for converting stop signs and signal intersections to roundabouts, but I've yet to see evidence that eliminating traffic controls altogether ("naked streets") reduces delay or crash risk overall in most situations. There are many anti-idling campaigns underway, but most seem to exaggerate the benefits, they are an excuse to avoid the more critical reforms needed to reduce economically excessive vehicle travel and associated social costs (see http://www.vtpi.org/wwclimate.pdf ). Best wishes, -Todd Litman At 10:42 AM 5/6/2007, Martin Cassini wrote: >Dashing out, but in the UK, about 30% of our CO2 output is from traffic. >Prof David Begg admits that 40% of that is from traffic idling. How >often does traffic idle at lights for no good reason? I live in King's >Cross, and I would say a good (or bad!) half the time. Also you have to >add the cost of manufacturing, installing, maintaining and RUNNING the >galaxy of 24-hour lights - this alone represents a massive carbon >footprint. If it wasn't for the lights, traffic would filter and flow, >instead of continually stop, idle and re-start. Traffic volume can be a >drama, but volume + controls = crisis. > >Martin Sincerely, Todd Alexander Litman Victoria Transport Policy Institute (www.vtpi.org) litman@vtpi.org Phone & Fax 250-360-1560 1250 Rudlin Street, Victoria, BC, V8V 3R7, CANADA "Efficiency - Equity - Clarity" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070507/1994a2db/attachment.html From ktsourl at mailbox.gr Tue May 8 21:29:36 2007 From: ktsourl at mailbox.gr (K. Tsourlakis) Date: 8 May 2007 15:29:36 +0300 Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques Message-ID: <20070508122936.20720.qmail@mailbox.gr> The mistake hidden in this rationalization is that it erroneously assumes that traffic volume will remain constant after the intervention (in this case, after traffic lights abolition). But actually any facilitation of car use will increase car use and traffic. This kind of fallacy is constantly used, not only as a justification, but also for greenwashing of various motorized traffic projects, like parkings (they deter drivers to burn fuel for searching park space), motorways (less congestion hence less fuel use and pollution) even parks and pedestrian spaces destruction (they are more efficiently used). In the case of traffic lights removal there is in addition the danger to discourage walking and biking and thus to encourage even further car and motorcycle use. I am very sceptical about the general friendliness of the "naked streets" concept. It may indeed work in small Dutch or German towns, but in the case of Indian (and lot of other places) cities, it clearly creates an inhuman environment. However I think we can draw some very useful conclusions from these experiments and the undoubtedly fact that less accidents happen there. For instance when very often the corrupt and car use favouring administrations (using the above described perverted way of justification) set up barriers along the sidewalks, as a measure supposedly to protect pedestrians from car "accidents". But it turns out from these "naked street" cases, that this intervention creates a more dangerous environment (not only for pedestrians, but also for car and motorcycle users), because it gives to the drivers a false sense of security and encourages speeding. I am inclined to conclude that the best environment is created when regulations are completeley stripped out for pedestrians, are minimal for bikers and are strictly enforced to motorized traffic. -----Original Message----- In the interests of long-term survival, people need to find other ways of getting about, work more from home, develop new energy sources. But something can be done NOW to make an impact on climate change: scrap traffic lights, the biggest gas-guzzlers of them all. From a Canadian website: “If every driver in Canada avoided idling for 5 minutes a day, 1.6 million tonnes of CO2 would not enter the atmosphere. It is estimated that idling and stop-go traffic costs motorists 753 million gallons of gas a year, or $1,194 per driver in wasted fuel and time.” But how do we avoid idling when traffic lights block progress in every sense? (In haste again, sorry) _____________________________________________________________________________________ http://www.mailbox.gr ÁðïêôÞóôå äùñåÜí ôï ìïíáäéêü óáò e-mail. http://www.superweb.gr ÏéêïíïìéêÜ êáé áîéüðéóôá ðáêÝôá web hosting ìå áóöáëÝò Åëëçíéêü controlpanel http://wwww.domains24.gr Ôï üíïìÜ óáò óôï internet áðü 9.95 Åõñþ. From martincassini at blueyonder.co.uk Tue May 8 21:37:59 2007 From: martincassini at blueyonder.co.uk (martincassini at blueyonder.co.uk) Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 13:37:59 +0100 (BST) Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques In-Reply-To: <20070508122936.20720.qmail@mailbox.gr> References: <20070508122936.20720.qmail@mailbox.gr> Message-ID: <50856.86.129.138.72.1178627879.SVIUQ21NQU52Rg==.squirrel@86.129.138.72> Some common ground then but not much, so we'll agree to differ. Martin > --===============0727612186== > > > The mistake hidden in this rationalization is that it erroneously assumes > that traffic volume will remain constant after the intervention (in this > case, after traffic lights abolition). But actually any facilitation of > car use will increase car use and traffic. This kind of fallacy is > constantly used, not only as a justification, but also for greenwashing of > various motorized traffic projects, like parkings (they deter drivers to > burn fuel for searching park space), motorways (less congestion hence less > fuel use and pollution) even parks and pedestrian spaces destruction (they > are more efficiently used). > > In the case of traffic lights removal there is in addition the danger to > discourage walking and biking and thus to encourage even further car and > motorcycle use. I am very sceptical about the general friendliness of the > "naked streets" concept. It may indeed work in small Dutch or German > towns, but in the case of Indian (and lot of other places) cities, it > clearly creates an inhuman environment. > > However I think we can draw some very useful conclusions from these > experiments and the undoubtedly fact that less accidents happen there. For > instance when very often the corrupt and car use favouring administrations > (using the above described perverted way of justification) set up barriers > along the sidewalks, as a measure supposedly to protect pedestrians from > car "accidents". But it turns out from these "naked street" cases, that > this intervention creates a more dangerous environment (not only for > pedestrians, but also for car and motorcycle users), because it gives to > the drivers a false sense of security and encourages speeding. > > I am inclined to conclude that the best environment is created when > regulations are completeley stripped out for pedestrians, are minimal for > bikers and are strictly enforced to motorized traffic. > > > -----Original Message----- > > In the interests of long-term survival, people need to find other ways > of getting about, work more from home, develop new energy sources. But > something can be done NOW to make an impact on climate change: scrap > traffic lights, the biggest gas-guzzlers of them all. From a Canadian > website: ?If every driver in Canada avoided idling for 5 minutes a day, > 1.6 million tonnes of CO2 would not enter the atmosphere. It is > estimated that idling and stop-go traffic costs motorists 753 million > gallons of gas a year, or $1,194 per driver in wasted fuel and time.? > But how do we avoid idling when traffic lights block progress in every > sense? (In haste again, sorry) > > > _____________________________________________________________________________________ > http://www.mailbox.gr ????????? ?????? ?? ???????? ??? e-mail. > http://www.superweb.gr ?????????? ??? ????????? ?????? web hosting ?? > ??????? ???????? controlpanel > http://wwww.domains24.gr ?? ????? ??? ??? internet ??? 9.95 ????. > > --===============0727612186== > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Content-Disposition: inline > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to > join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The > yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to > the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like > you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > --===============0727612186==-- > From sujit at vsnl.com Wed May 9 04:08:46 2007 From: sujit at vsnl.com (Sujit Patwardhan) Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 00:38:46 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Environmentally Sustainable Transport and Climate Change: Experiences and lessons from community initiatives Message-ID: <4cfd20aa0705081208o3987c2ebg88927eae1b718118@mail.gmail.com> 8 May 2007 This publication contains a case study of our project (pages 27 to 29) on "Sustainable Urban Transportation". With regards, -- Sujit Sujit Patwardhan Parisar/PTTF Pune, India Environmentally Sustainable Transport and Climate Change: Experiences and lessons from community initiatives This publication is a result of a review of 65 sustainable transport community projects funded by the GEF Small Grants Programme. Lessons and experiences documented in the publication demonstrate that community initiatives play an important role in testing new approaches, raising awareness of new ideas, piloting innovative strategies, and informing and stimulating policy dialogue in a cost-effective way. For instance, community initiatives with local civil society organizations in Pune, India, prompted a policy shift by the city towards supporting bus rapid transit and the development of pedestrian and cycling infrastructure. In Chiang Mai, Thailand, the municipal government is re-allocating a portion of its transport funds towards non-motorized transport infrastructure. In other cases (e.g., Sri Lanka, Nepal, Kyrgyzstan, Poland, Jordan, Egypt, and Lithuania), sustainable transport community projects have resulted in government policy shifts and stimulated commercial activities, leading to sustainable strategies for addressing local transport challenges while benefiting the global climate. The publication was first published and launched at the twelfth session of the Conference of the Parties to the Climate Change Convention (COP-12) and second meeting of the Parties to the Kyoto Protocol (MOP-2) in Nairobi, Kenya, 6-17 November 2006 *Environmentally Sustainable Transport and Climate Change: Experiences and lessons from community initiatives*(PDF, 1.44 MB) -- ------------------------------------------------------ Sujit Patwardhan sujit@vsnl.com sujitjp@gmail.com "Yamuna", ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007 India Tel: 25537955 ----------------------------------------------------- Hon. Secretary: Parisar www.parisar.org ------------------------------------------------------ Founder Member: PTTF (Pune Traffic & Transportation Forum) www.pttf.net ------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070509/bd0e345c/attachment.html From zvi at inro.ca Wed May 9 04:45:09 2007 From: zvi at inro.ca (Zvi Leve) Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 15:45:09 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Naked streets In-Reply-To: <50856.86.129.138.72.1178627879.SVIUQ21NQU52Rg==.squirrel@86.129.138.72> References: <20070508122936.20720.qmail@mailbox.gr> <50856.86.129.138.72.1178627879.SVIUQ21NQU52Rg==.squirrel@86.129.138.72> Message-ID: <4640D345.8020200@inro.ca> I don't have much time to respond, but I would like to just add a few quick points on the subject of "naked streets". As has already been pointed out, this method may not be appropriate in all situations. In mixed-use residential areas where the traffic volumes are not that high and the drivers are respectful of other road users this method should work just fine. On the other hand, I have witnessed first-hand the dynamics when the traffic signals go out in a number of different places and it is quite impressive how quickly complete grid-lock can set in! By grid-lock I am referring to the situation where /no one is going anywhere/ because an intersection is completely blocked and the traffic behind the blocked intersection prevents anyone from backing up (remember the blackout on the US East coast a few years back? no one could drive!). In developing regions, where there is still a lack of basic accessibility to large portions of the population, I think that it is perhaps premature to consider this concept. As an Iranian colleague once said to me: "if you can't even get from point A to point B who really cares about road safety?" Concerning Todd's remarks about round-abouts versus junctions: yes round-abouts can keep traffic 'flowing' more smoothly, but they only work well up to certain volumes. Once there is too much traffic on multiple entering legs they tend to get 'blocked' and may actually work worse than signalized intersections (in terms of the through-put at least). Cheers, Zvi martincassini@blueyonder.co.uk wrote: > Some common ground then but not much, so we'll agree to differ. > > Martin > > > > > From edelman at greenidea.info Wed May 9 06:12:31 2007 From: edelman at greenidea.info (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory) Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 23:12:31 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Foster and Partners - Oil Emirate to Build First New Carfree City Message-ID: <4640E7BF.90003@greenidea.info> "...Rooted in a zero carbon ambition, the city itself is carfree. With a maximum distance of 200m to the nearest transport link and amenities, the compact network of streets encourages walking and is complemented by a personalised rapid transport system. The shaded walkways and narrow streets will create a pedestrian-friendly environment in the context of Abu Dhabi?s extreme climate. It also articulates the tightly planned, compact nature of traditional walled cities. With expansion carefully planned, the surrounding land will contain wind, photovoltaic farms, research fields and plantations, so that the city will be entirely self-sustaining..." http://www.fosterandpartners.com/News/291/Default.aspx -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman edelman@greenidea.info Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Wed May 9 18:45:24 2007 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (Eric Britton) Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 11:45:24 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Transantiago / Bogota Message-ID: On Behalf Of lake@sagaris.cl Ref: Debate on Transantiago, Wikipedia entries, others. In reference to Carlos Pardo?s note, on crush-load factors and his pregnant (congratulations Carlos!!!) wife?s almost fainting when she got on a bus this morning: The whole issue of crush-load factors and the significant difference between what is acceptable in North American (3-4) versus other (6 people per m2) systems brings out a crucial factor in BRT implementation: the issue of social equality. In Santiago, Transantiago was PLANNED this way, and the Metro?s level, which until last year was quite reasonable and comfortable, earning it a well-deserved reputation for top quality, was also boosted to untenable levels. In fact, as analysts have warned for the past three years, the bus system was tossed in at the bottom of the urban transport pile, after billions were spent on concessioned highways and investments in the Metro, which only served 4% of daily trips (bus trips account for 26% and bike trips 2%). In fact, the government has not even invested in the necessary infrastructure, charging everything ? including new car lanes!! ? to bus users. Exclusion of women?s needs from planning is also apparent, in Carlos? example and the many incidents of sexual harassment that have resulted from these conditions, primarily on trains, in Santiago. Many women no longer feel the Metro is a safe transportation alternative, and therefore find their options for access to work, education and vital urban goods and services much limited by this new system. The failure to integrate bike facilities into Transantiago, which could have helped to offset the in many cases unacceptably long distances to be travelled on foot to access the system, was yet another missed opportunity in planning this new system. After visiting Bogot? in 2001 and getting a firsthand look at Transmilenio and then observing Transantiago as closely as possible in the interim, Transantiago?s errors are largely the result of PLANNING and should have come as no surprise to those making decisions. The system was planned and developed by non-users, making the lack of participation from individual citizens? and community groups an appalling oversight. With the government spending more than US$2000 per pax for urban highways, versus just US$15 per Transantiago passenger (the majority of Chileans!), this is not simply a technical glitch, but rather reflects a planning approach that is strongly biased in favour of a small powerful elite, mainly male and mainly car users, in an environment lacking the participatory mechanisms that could help offset this. The overwhelming drive to inaugurate new public works that has marked presidencial campaigns in recent years was also a contributing factor, with many (not just Transantiago) being officially opened before they were fully operacional, a factor that has meant that several have actually been closed down again or are functioning poorly. This probable explains why in the case of Transantiago the new system wasn?t gradually phased in, as would have been recommendable given the depth of the cultural, physical and other changes required. Transport and urban planners should therefore be aware, when looking at Transantiago, of the political and social factors that can weigh more heavily than technical conditions or expertise, on how systems are planned. Chile?s authorities have tried to sell Transantiago as both better and cheaper than systems implemented elsewhere. Events in the past three months, since implementation began, reveal this is patently false. Perhaps Shakespeare could have produced a powerful tragedy ? or at least a biting comedy ? from such hubris. In Santiago, meanwhile, Transantiago has become a powerful force in favour of more car and bike, including motor bike, use ? completely the opposite of what the world needs from BRT today. All best Lake Lake Sagaris Living City (Ciudad Viva) Santiago, Chile __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Links | Database | Polls | Calendar Check in here via the homepage at http://www.newmobility.org To post message to group: NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com Please think twice before posting to the group as a whole (It might be that your note is best sent to one person?) Yahoo! Groups Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity * 1 New Members Visit Your Group Yahoo! Movies What's Hot Now Check out the top rated movies. Yahoo! Music Pepsi Smash Your top artists behind the scenes. Yahoo! Finance It's Now Personal Guides, news, advice & more. . __,_._,___ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070509/eb445a8f/attachment.html From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Thu May 10 18:18:49 2007 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (Eric Britton) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 11:18:49 +0200 Subject: [sustran] People centered urban transport - around the world In-Reply-To: <4cfd20aa0705081208o3987c2ebg88927eae1b718118@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: The following notice just in via Sustran from Sujit Patwardhan. I thought that the Pune case was so interesting that I just went in and cut and pasted it just below to bring it even more immediately to your attention. Congratulations Sujit and team on a fine job. And congratulations too is very much due to the UNDP and the Global Environmental Facility GEF Small Grants program behind this, which I would draw to your attention at http://sgp.undp.org/index.cfm?module=ActiveWeb&page=WebPage&s=AboutGEF . Here is an idea that comes to mind, concerning which I would be interested to have your comments and suggestions. What about seeing if we can encourage the GEF team to underwrite a cycle of ?living case studies? which will look at one or two dozen similar citizen based projects in as many places, building on the Pune experience and perhaps taking it further in several respects. * First, I would like to see how we in our various working combination might be able to put our heads together to develop a guiding ?template? for these various case reports, not so much to tie the hands of the authors and the groups concerned, but rather to give them our best ideas about a reporting format that they can themselves take, build on and improve for their own purposes. * Second, I would like to see them brought on line and developed in iterations, with feedback from these and other groups and fora who can perhaps help strengthen not only the case reports themselves, but also and far more impotent I believe the mechanisms that they are working with in their own cities. In this way it becomes a kind of collaborative group learning process, not all that different from what we already do here. Your thoughts? Eric Britton - - - - >From Sujit: Environmentally Sustainable Transport and Climate Change: Experiences and lessons from community initiatives This publication is a result of a review of 65 sustainable transport community projects funded by the GEF Small Grants Programme. Lessons and experiences documented in the publication demonstrate that community initiatives play an important role in testing new approaches, raising awareness of new ideas, piloting innovative strategies, and informing and stimulating policy dialogue in a cost-effective way. For instance, community initiatives with local civil society organizations in Pune, India, prompted a policy shift by the city towards supporting bus rapid transit and the development of pedestrian and cycling infrastructure. In Chiang Mai, Thailand, the municipal government is re-allocating a portion of its transport funds towards non-motorized transport infrastructure. In other cases (e.g., Sri Lanka, Nepal, Kyrgyzstan, Poland, Jordan, Egypt, and Lithuania), sustainable transport community projects have resulted in government policy shifts and stimulated commercial activities, leading to sustainable strategies for addressing local transport challenges while benefiting the global climate. The publication was first published and launched at the twelfth session of the Conference of the Parties to the Climate Change Convention (COP-12) and second meeting of the Parties to the Kyoto Protocol (MOP-2) in Nairobi, Kenya, 6-17 November 2006 Environmentally Sustainable Transport and Climate Change: Experiences and lessons from community initiatives (PDF, 1.44 MB) Report editors Editorial support: Marie Khan Copy editor: Rosemarie Philips Technical support: Espen Beer Prydz Experiences and lessons from community initiatives Case study contributors Neda Leonaviciute & Inga Ringailaite, GEF SGP, UNDP Lithuania Poonsin Sreesangkom, GEF SGP, UNDP Thailand Nirandorn Potikanond, Chiang Mai Sunday Bicycle Club, Thailand Sujit Patwardhan, Parisar Samrakshan Samvardhan Samstha, Pune India Omar Kaba, GEF SGP, UNDP Mali Przemek Czajkowski, GEF SGP, UNDP Poland Sodhi Prabhjot. GEF SGP, UNDP India. Shireen Samarasuriya, GEF SGP, UNDP Sri Lanka Ibrahim Togola, Mali Folkecenter, Mali Emad Adly, GEF SGP. UNDP, Egypt Nehemiah Murusuri, GEF SGP, UNDP, Tanzania Livinus Manyanga. KAKUTE Ltd, Tanzania Adam Friedensohn, Himalayan Light Foundation. Nepal Yadav Gurung, Himalayan Light Foundation. Nepal Case Study 2: India: Environmentally Sustainable, People-centred Urban Transport, Pune Project Overview Pune is a burgeoning city in the Indian state of Maharashtra. With a vibrant industrial sector as well as a growing IT sector, the population of the Pune metropolitan area has grown from 800,000 in 1971 to its current 4.5 million. This rapid development has outpaced public transit services, and unplanned neighbourhoods have sprung up in areas poorly served by the Pune Municipal Transport (PMT) bus network. As public transit has come under increasing strain and the price of motor vehicles has come down, motorization has exploded, polluting the air and making walking and cycling increasingly dangerous. Since the 1960s, Pune?s road network has increased by a factor of 5, while the number of vehicles has increased by a factor of 87. Formerly known as the ?cycle city of India?, Pune now experiences over 300 road fatalities per year and the fifth worst air pollution in Asia. The drive towards motorization has made transport less affordable and more burdensome for the poor while spewing greenhouse gasses and large amounts of toxic air pollution. The grantee, Parisar Samrakshan Samvardhan Samstha (Parisar), is a Pune-based environmental NGO. Parisar mobilized a diverse network of stakeholders from a variety of sectors, NGOs, and communities throughout the city into the Pune Traffic and Transportation Forum (PTTF), which lobbies for, raises awareness about, and crafts policy for sustainable transport, traffic demand management, and non-motorized transport in the city. Acting simultaneously as a pressure group, a think tank, and a policy watchdog, the grantee and its partners have been instrumental in persuading the city to implement (beginning in 2006) several NMT and BRT policies and projects. Implementation Parisar has been active in urban transport in Pune for a number of years, lobbying successive city administrations for improvements in the PMT. Although most were reluctant to address politically sensitive issues such as traffic demand management, or were not particularly receptive to civil society organizations, Parisar gained experience during those years in municipal traffic and transport advocacy, developed networks of partner organizations representing various stakeholders, and developed a suite of policy recommendations for the city. With a new, more sympathetic administration taking charge in June 2004, the grantee was offered an opportunity to present its case for NMT, BRT, and TDM to the administration. Several presentations, seminars, and informal discussions were held between the PTTF and city officials during the second half of 2004. While city officials were broadly supportive of some sustainable transport measures, they required considerable convincing in many areas, including adding sidewalks to Pune?s narrow streets, the continued relevance of bicycles in an age of increasingly available motor vehicles, and the utility of bus-only lanes. Initially, the view of the Pune Municipal Corporation (PMC) was that traffic was too heavy for these measures. Using examples from sustainable transport accomplishments in Singapore, Bogot?, London, and Curitiba, the grantee slowly shifted the view of the PMC towards recognition that certain forms of traffic restrictions actually speed traffic rather than restrict it while also benefiting the environment, improving public safety, and increasing the mobility of the poor. As city officials became increasingly receptive, outside experts were brought in and administrators from the PMT were included. Holding a seminar entitled ?One Right Turn: Critical Issues in Urban Mobility for Developing Countries for Coming Decades?, the grantee attracted participants from noted NGOs such as the Delhi-based Centre for Science and Environment, transit officials from Delhi and Mumbai, other noted Indian advocates for BRT systems, and officials from the Central Institute of Road Transport. The seminar was well-received by officials and garnered a lot of media attention, catalyzing popular support. A major publication on sustainable transport came out of the seminar; combined with an appearance by Enrique Pe?alosa and his flagging-off of a major cycle rally (~4500 cyclists), it went a long way in persuading the PMC to take a more sympathetic approach to NMT, BRT, and TDM. In early 2005, PMC hired a consulting firm to help develop a transport action plan, with the grantee being given a role in the oversight of their work. The consulting firm?s recommendations were largely auto-centric and failed to take account of the progress of the past year. The grantee engaged the consultants and successfully persuaded them to revise the document. For unclear reasons, however, the recommendations were not accepted by the PMC, casting doubt on future progress. The 2006 municipal budget allayed these worries, however, when it made significant financial commitments to sustainable transport development, including: * upgrade of Pune?s citywide cycling network, including several kilometres of cycling tracks, * initial funding for a multi-million dollar BRT system, including construction of two initial routes, and * mandated footpaths for all public roads in the city. These provisions represent outstanding successes and pave the way for further progress in the future. Parisar and its partners continue to lobby for sustainable transport and serve as policy watchdogs, monitoring city policy and ensuring continued improvement. Results and Impacts a) Environmental Benefits Global: By encouraging infrastructural changes to promote modal shifts in transportation systems, this project is contributing to greenhouse gas emission reductions now and into the future. By changing perceptions of policymakers and establishing the beginnings of NMT, BRT, and TDM programmes, the project has also set the stage for continued reductions and emissions prevention into the future. Local: Reduction in the numbers of motorbikes, autorickshaws, cars, and trucks has the potential not only to significantly improve the air quality of Pune and its environs, but also to improve quality of life by reducing noise and congestion and to reduce the threat to the city?s environmental assets from auto-centric development. b) Livelihood Benefits Safety: With motorbikes in the bicycle lanes, poor road discipline, and extreme congestion, Pune?s current transport infrastructure is considered unsafe by many people. Increased investment in public transit, improved infrastructure, traffic calming measures, and a general reduction in the use of motorized vehicles should improve the road safety situation and entice more people to walk or ride bicycles where they previously feared for their safety in doing so. Gender: Women in Pune are less likely to operate motor vehicles than men, and are more likely to walk or take public transit. Many women in Pune would cycle, but for their perception that the activity is unsafe. Improving the safety of traffic will make cycling a more acceptable activity for increasing numbers of women. Also, since the majority of pedestrians and users of public transport are women (whereas men are more likely to cycle or take a motorbike), improvements in these modes will directly affect the welfare of women. Marginalized and Vulnerable: Transportation represents a higher proportion of total household income for Pune?s poor and middle-income households than it does for Pune?s high-income households. Making public transport more effective, making it reach neighbourhoods that it currently does not, and making cycling and walking more viable will improve the mobility of lower-income households, giving them greater access to education, opportunities, markets, and services, while reducing the proportion of their income that is spent on transportation. Reduced Congestion: Reducing traffic congestion benefits Pune?s economy by improving worker productivity by reducing traffic-related tardiness and absenteeism. The situation has grown so bad that several large employers in and around the city currently charter private busses to shuttle their workers to and from their shifts. Reducing traffic congestion can improve Pune?s business climate and quality of life simultaneously. Lessons Learned a) Barrier Removal Information/Awareness: The project began with awareness raising, placing the issue of sustainable transport into the forefront of the minds of policymakers who had previously not considered bicycling, mass transit, and traffic demand management to be viable or progressive options. Experiences and lessons from community initiatives 27 Institutional: Over the past few decades, Pune?s approach to transport development has been largely limited to widening roads and constructing flyovers. This makes cycling and walking less viable and has led to increasing numbers of motor vehicles. The grantee sought to remedy this through citizen involvement, working with both sympathetic officials and citizenry to develop a constituency for sustainable transport infrastructure that will hopefully guide how the city develops into the future. b) Project Approaches This project achieved remarkable policy success in part because it leveraged social capital by mobilizing coalitions of stakeholders, including low-income residents, environmentalists, journalists, former bureaucrats, and good governance campaigners. The grantee also effectively used outside expertise, exploiting national and global networks of sustainable transport professionals from other Indian cities and NGOs, as well as foreign experts who have implemented successful programs elsewhere. Each of these project participants brought different strengths to bear on the project and represented different and complementary constituencies and interests. The policy advocacy approach of the grantee uses GEF SGP funding to support not implementation or procurement, but efforts to make the city redirect transport resources from increasing road building to sustainable transport development. This represents an excellent return in both local and global environmental benefits to GEF funding, while the localized implementation of the advocated activities ensures increased local ownership of the project, improved prospects for economic and social sustainability, and high potential for replicability in other cities and regions in the country. c) Scaling Up The grantee remains committed to sustainable transport development in Pune and continues to press to see the city?s commitments properly implemented and expanded. The PTTF now has a life of its own; it is expected that it will be registered as a trust and has become a major and growing force in Pune civil society. Sources Consulted Astrop, A. et al.1996. ?The urban travel behaviour and constraints of low income households and females in Pune, India?. National Conference on Women?s Travel Issues, Baltimore Maryland, October 23-26. Boralkar, D.B. ?Action Plan for Control of Air Pollution at Pune?. Powerpoint Presentation. Available from: http://lnweb18.worldbank.org/SAR/sa.nsf/Attachments/ PresPuneAP/$File/Action+Plan-Pune.ppt. Accessed July 2006. Parisar Website. www.parisar.org. Patankar, P.G. 2006. ?Concept Note for a Comprehensive Transport Policy for the Pune Metropolitan Region: Vision, Policy and Recommendations?. Patwardhan, Sujit. Parisar Samrakshan Samvardhan Samstha. 2006. Email Communication (July). PTTF. 2005. ?Pune Declaration: Citizens? Recommendations for a Saner, Safer and Sustainable Urban Mobility in Pune?. PTTF. 2004. ?Pune Traffic: It?s Time We Act ? Pamphlet. SGP Database. Project no. SGP/GEF/IND/OP2/03/MS13. www.undp.org/sgp. Sodhi, Prabhjot. GEF SGP India. 2006. Email communication (July). PTTF Website. www.pttf.net. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070510/031c6974/attachment.html From martincassini at blueyonder.co.uk Thu May 10 18:54:26 2007 From: martincassini at blueyonder.co.uk (martincassini at blueyonder.co.uk) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 10:54:26 +0100 (BST) Subject: [sustran] Re: Fuel consumed by idling In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20070507104139.038c6b10@mail.islandnet.com> References: <463E1177.30706@greenidea.info> <002901c79005$f2daf2e0$b83a2352@mc> <6.2.3.4.2.20070507104139.038c6b10@mail.islandnet.com> Message-ID: <50541.86.129.138.72.1178790866.SVIUQ21NQU52Rg==.squirrel@86.129.138.72> I thought I said, and meant, that 40% of polluting gases from traffic, not fuel used, is from traffic idling. I got that figure from pro-regulation man Prof David Begg. As you might have read, chronic lung disease and malformations occur in children who live on or near main roads. My lung function has suffered since I moved to King's Cross. On the Euston Road, I see catastrophic congestion every day of the week, caused largely by an endless procession of mandatory traffic lights, permanent bus lanes, and the congestion charge which forces vehicles on to outer routes. > > Please cite sources for the claim that 40% of fuel is used from > idling. I suspect that it is a misinterpretation of the data. A > typical vehicle consumes about a tenth as much fuel per unit of time > while idling as under load (typically about 1 liter per hour for a > car and 2 liters an hour for a large truck). If an average vehicle is > driven 1 hour per day and idles 5 minutes, idling represents about 1% > of total fuel consumption. > > I think Cassini may be confusing idling with stop-and-go driving > conditions, but I'm skeptical that the traffic management strategies > he advocates would actually increase traffic efficiencies. I think > there is a good case for converting stop signs and signal > intersections to roundabouts, but I've yet to see evidence that > eliminating traffic controls altogether ("naked streets") reduces > delay or crash risk overall in most situations. > > There are many anti-idling campaigns underway, but most seem to > exaggerate the benefits, they are an excuse to avoid the more > critical reforms needed to reduce economically excessive vehicle > travel and associated social costs (see http://www.vtpi.org/wwclimate.pdf > ). > > > Best wishes, > -Todd Litman > > > At 10:42 AM 5/6/2007, Martin Cassini wrote: >>Dashing out, but in the UK, about 30% of our CO2 output is from traffic. >>Prof David Begg admits that 40% of that is from traffic idling. How >>often does traffic idle at lights for no good reason? I live in King's >>Cross, and I would say a good (or bad!) half the time. Also you have to >>add the cost of manufacturing, installing, maintaining and RUNNING the >>galaxy of 24-hour lights - this alone represents a massive carbon >>footprint. If it wasn't for the lights, traffic would filter and flow, >>instead of continually stop, idle and re-start. Traffic volume can be a >>drama, but volume + controls = crisis. >> >>Martin > > > Sincerely, > Todd Alexander Litman > Victoria Transport Policy Institute (www.vtpi.org) > litman@vtpi.org > Phone & Fax 250-360-1560 > 1250 Rudlin Street, Victoria, BC, V8V 3R7, CANADA > "Efficiency - Equity - Clarity" > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to > join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The > yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to > the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like > you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). From SCHIPPER at wri.org Thu May 10 18:58:39 2007 From: SCHIPPER at wri.org (Lee Schipper) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 05:58:39 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: Fuel consumed by idling In-Reply-To: <50541.86.129.138.72.1178790866.SVIUQ21NQU52Rg==.squirrel@86.129.138.72> References: <463E1177.30706@greenidea.info> <002901c79005$f2daf2e0$b83a2352@mc> <6.2.3.4.2.20070507104139.038c6b10@mail.islandnet.com> <50541.86.129.138.72.1178790866.SVIUQ21NQU52Rg==.squirrel@86.129.138.72> Message-ID: <4642B48F0200003800006219@HERMES.wri.org> I still have trouble with that figure ? would love to see a clear, published, written reference where we can see the sources, assumptions, and numbers crunched. And of course, let us know which gases! >>> 5/10/2007 5:54:26 AM >>> I thought I said, and meant, that 40% of polluting gases from traffic, not fuel used, is from traffic idling. I got that figure from pro-regulation man Prof David Begg. As you might have read, chronic lung disease and malformations occur in children who live on or near main roads. My lung function has suffered since I moved to King's Cross. On the Euston Road, I see catastrophic congestion every day of the week, caused largely by an endless procession of mandatory traffic lights, permanent bus lanes, and the congestion charge which forces vehicles on to outer routes. > > Please cite sources for the claim that 40% of fuel is used from > idling. I suspect that it is a misinterpretation of the data. A > typical vehicle consumes about a tenth as much fuel per unit of time > while idling as under load (typically about 1 liter per hour for a > car and 2 liters an hour for a large truck). If an average vehicle is > driven 1 hour per day and idles 5 minutes, idling represents about 1% > of total fuel consumption. > > I think Cassini may be confusing idling with stop-and-go driving > conditions, but I'm skeptical that the traffic management strategies > he advocates would actually increase traffic efficiencies. I think > there is a good case for converting stop signs and signal > intersections to roundabouts, but I've yet to see evidence that > eliminating traffic controls altogether ("naked streets") reduces > delay or crash risk overall in most situations. > > There are many anti-idling campaigns underway, but most seem to > exaggerate the benefits, they are an excuse to avoid the more > critical reforms needed to reduce economically excessive vehicle > travel and associated social costs (see http://www.vtpi.org/wwclimate.pdf > ). > > > Best wishes, > -Todd Litman > > > At 10:42 AM 5/6/2007, Martin Cassini wrote: >>Dashing out, but in the UK, about 30% of our CO2 output is from traffic. >>Prof David Begg admits that 40% of that is from traffic idling. How >>often does traffic idle at lights for no good reason? I live in King's >>Cross, and I would say a good (or bad!) half the time. Also you have to >>add the cost of manufacturing, installing, maintaining and RUNNING the >>galaxy of 24-hour lights - this alone represents a massive carbon >>footprint. If it wasn't for the lights, traffic would filter and flow, >>instead of continually stop, idle and re-start. Traffic volume can be a >>drama, but volume + controls = crisis. >> >>Martin > > > Sincerely, > Todd Alexander Litman > Victoria Transport Policy Institute (www.vtpi.org) > litman@vtpi.org > Phone & Fax 250-360-1560 > 1250 Rudlin Street, Victoria, BC, V8V 3R7, CANADA > "Efficiency - Equity - Clarity" > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to > join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The > yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to > the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like > you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From martincassini at blueyonder.co.uk Thu May 10 20:26:16 2007 From: martincassini at blueyonder.co.uk (martincassini at blueyonder.co.uk) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 12:26:16 +0100 (BST) Subject: [sustran] Re: Fuel consumed by idling In-Reply-To: <4642B48F0200003800006219@HERMES.wri.org> References: <463E1177.30706@greenidea.info> <002901c79005$f2daf2e0$b83a2352@mc> <6.2.3.4.2.20070507104139.038c6b10@mail.islandnet.com> <50541.86.129.138.72.1178790866.SVIUQ21NQU52Rg==.squirrel@86.129.138.72> <4642B48F0200003800006219@HERMES.wri.org> Message-ID: <50861.86.129.138.72.1178796376.SVIUQ21NQU52Rg==.squirrel@86.129.138.72> Given a green light (!) for the film and/or TV programme / series that I'm planning, there will be the opportunity to research and establish these and other facts and figures. One question: why are g/km (CO2 per kilometre) figures published but not g/pm (CO2 per minute engine running/idling)? Even the manufacturers don't seem to know. Martin > I still have trouble with that figure ??? would love to see a clear, > published, written reference where > we can see the sources, assumptions, and numbers crunched. And of > course, let us know which gases! > >>>> 5/10/2007 5:54:26 AM >>> > I thought I said, and meant, that 40% of polluting gases from traffic, > not > fuel used, is from traffic idling. I got that figure from > pro-regulation > man Prof David Begg. As you might have read, chronic lung disease and > malformations occur in children who live on or near main roads. My > lung > function has suffered since I moved to King's Cross. On the Euston > Road, I > see catastrophic congestion every day of the week, caused largely by > an > endless procession of mandatory traffic lights, permanent bus lanes, > and > the congestion charge which forces vehicles on to outer routes. >> >> Please cite sources for the claim that 40% of fuel is used from >> idling. I suspect that it is a misinterpretation of the data. A >> typical vehicle consumes about a tenth as much fuel per unit of time >> while idling as under load (typically about 1 liter per hour for a >> car and 2 liters an hour for a large truck). If an average vehicle > is >> driven 1 hour per day and idles 5 minutes, idling represents about > 1% >> of total fuel consumption. >> >> I think Cassini may be confusing idling with stop-and-go driving >> conditions, but I'm skeptical that the traffic management strategies >> he advocates would actually increase traffic efficiencies. I think >> there is a good case for converting stop signs and signal >> intersections to roundabouts, but I've yet to see evidence that >> eliminating traffic controls altogether ("naked streets") reduces >> delay or crash risk overall in most situations. >> >> There are many anti-idling campaigns underway, but most seem to >> exaggerate the benefits, they are an excuse to avoid the more >> critical reforms needed to reduce economically excessive vehicle >> travel and associated social costs (see > http://www.vtpi.org/wwclimate.pdf >> ). >> >> >> Best wishes, >> -Todd Litman >> >> >> At 10:42 AM 5/6/2007, Martin Cassini wrote: >>>Dashing out, but in the UK, about 30% of our CO2 output is from > traffic. >>>Prof David Begg admits that 40% of that is from traffic idling. How >>>often does traffic idle at lights for no good reason? I live in > King's >>>Cross, and I would say a good (or bad!) half the time. Also you have > to >>>add the cost of manufacturing, installing, maintaining and RUNNING > the >>>galaxy of 24-hour lights - this alone represents a massive carbon >>>footprint. If it wasn't for the lights, traffic would filter and > flow, >>>instead of continually stop, idle and re-start. Traffic volume can be > a >>>drama, but volume + controls = crisis. >>> >>>Martin >> >> >> Sincerely, >> Todd Alexander Litman >> Victoria Transport Policy Institute (www.vtpi.org) >> litman@vtpi.org >> Phone & Fax 250-360-1560 >> 1250 Rudlin Street, Victoria, BC, V8V 3R7, CANADA >> "Efficiency - Equity - Clarity" >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via >> YAHOOGROUPS. >> >> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss > to >> join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The >> yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post > to >> the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem > like >> you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. >> >> ================================================================ >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing > countries >> (the 'Global South'). > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to > join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The > yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to > the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem > like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to > join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The > yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to > the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like > you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). From ktsourl at mailbox.gr Thu May 10 21:19:10 2007 From: ktsourl at mailbox.gr (K. Tsourlakis) Date: 10 May 2007 15:19:10 +0300 Subject: [sustran] greenwash justifications Message-ID: <20070510121910.29910.qmail@mailbox.gr> This is what I mean by "perverted way of justification": Roads 'good for the environment', says study EurActiv.com, 11 April 2007 - Bigger and better roads contribute to cutting pollution by removing bottlenecks, states a report commissioned by the EU Road Federation. The study follows criticism from green groups that investing in roads is contrary to Europe's sustainable development goals. “More investment in road infrastructure is needed to remove bottlenecks, avoid city centres and complete missing links which together cost billions every year in lost fuel and undoubtedly contribute to the transport sector’s environmental footprint,” said the European Union Road Federation (ERF), in a paper published on 10 April 2007. .............................. http://www.wbcsd.org/plugins/DocSearch/details.asp?type=DocDet&ObjectId=MjQwNTE -----Original Message----- Some common ground then but not much, so we'll agree to differ. Martin >> --===============0727612186== >> >> >> The mistake hidden in this rationalization is that it erroneously assumes >> that traffic volume will remain constant after the intervention (in this >> case, after traffic lights abolition). But actually any facilitation of >> car use will increase car use and traffic. This kind of fallacy is >> constantly used, not only as a justification, but also for greenwashing of >> various motorized traffic projects, like parkings (they deter drivers to >> burn fuel for searching park space), motorways (less congestion hence less >> fuel use and pollution) even parks and pedestrian spaces destruction (they >> are more efficiently used). >> >> In the case of traffic lights removal there is in addition the danger to >> discourage walking and biking and thus to encourage even further car and >> motorcycle use. I am very sceptical about the general friendliness of the >> "naked streets" concept. It may indeed work in small Dutch or German >> towns, but in the case of Indian (and lot of other places) cities, it >> clearly creates an inhuman environment. >> >> However I think we can draw some very useful conclusions from these >> experiments and the undoubtedly fact that less accidents happen there. For >> instance when very often the corrupt and car use favouring administrations >> (using the above described perverted way of justification) set up barriers >> along the sidewalks, as a measure supposedly to protect pedestrians from >> car "accidents". But it turns out from these "naked street" cases, that >> this intervention creates a more dangerous environment (not only for >> pedestrians, but also for car and motorcycle users), because it gives to >> the drivers a false sense of security and encourages speeding. >> >> I am inclined to conclude that the best environment is created when >> regulations are completeley stripped out for pedestrians, are minimal for >> bikers and are strictly enforced to motorized traffic. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> In the interests of long-term survival, people need to find other ways >> of getting about, work more from home, develop new energy sources. But >> something can be done NOW to make an impact on climate change: scrap >> traffic lights, the biggest gas-guzzlers of them all. From a Canadian >> website: ?If every driver in Canada avoided idling for 5 minutes a day, >> 1.6 million tonnes of CO2 would not enter the atmosphere. It is >> estimated that idling and stop-go traffic costs motorists 753 million >> gallons of gas a year, or $1,194 per driver in wasted fuel and time.? >> But how do we avoid idling when traffic lights block progress in every >> sense? (In haste again, sorry) >> _____________________________________________________________________________________ http://www.mailbox.gr ÁðïêôÞóôå äùñåÜí ôï ìïíáäéêü óáò e-mail. http://www.superweb.gr ÏéêïíïìéêÜ êáé áîéüðéóôá ðáêÝôá web hosting ìå áóöáëÝò Åëëçíéêü controlpanel http://wwww.domains24.gr Ôï üíïìÜ óáò óôï internet áðü 9.95 Åõñþ. From madhav.g.badami at mcgill.ca Thu May 10 21:14:14 2007 From: madhav.g.badami at mcgill.ca (Madhav Badami, Prof.) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 08:14:14 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: Fuel consumed by idling References: <463E1177.30706@greenidea.info> <002901c79005$f2daf2e0$b83a2352@mc> <6.2.3.4.2.20070507104139.038c6b10@mail.islandnet.com> <50541.86.129.138.72.1178790866.SVIUQ21NQU52Rg==.squirrel@86.129.138.72> <4642B48F0200003800006219@HERMES.wri.org> <50861.86.129.138.72.1178796376.SVIUQ21NQU52Rg==.squirrel@86.129.138.72> Message-ID: <45AEE06A4800AF4FAD8BEF09C433D85F030780F4@EXCHANGE2VS2.campus.mcgill.ca> Martin Cassini wrote: "I thought I said, and meant, that 40% of polluting gases from traffic, not fuel used, is from traffic idling.", and then asked about CO2. I will have to check on the share of idling in emissions of various "criteria" air pollutants in city driving, but as far as CO2 is concerned, the share of idling in CO2 emissions must be the same as its share in fuel consumption, since CO2 is strictly a function of how much, rather than how, the fuel is burnt. Madhav ************************************************************************ "As for the future, your task is not to foresee, but to enable it." Antoine de Saint-Exupery Madhav G. Badami, PhD School of Urban Planning and McGill School of Environment McGill University Macdonald-Harrington Building 815 Sherbrooke Street West Montreal, QC, H3A 2K6, Canada Phone: 514-398-3183 (Work); 514-486-2370 (Home) Fax: 514-398-8376; 514-398-1643 URLs: www.mcgill.ca/urbanplanning www.mcgill.ca/mse e-mail: madhav.badami@mcgill.ca -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+madhav.g.badami=mcgill.ca@list.jca.apc.org on behalf of martincassini@blueyonder.co.uk Sent: Thu 5/10/2007 7:26 AM To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Subject: [sustran] Re: Fuel consumed by idling Given a green light (!) for the film and/or TV programme / series that I'm planning, there will be the opportunity to research and establish these and other facts and figures. One question: why are g/km (CO2 per kilometre) figures published but not g/pm (CO2 per minute engine running/idling)? Even the manufacturers don't seem to know. Martin > I still have trouble with that figure ??" would love to see a clear, > published, written reference where > we can see the sources, assumptions, and numbers crunched. And of > course, let us know which gases! > >>>> 5/10/2007 5:54:26 AM >>> > I thought I said, and meant, that 40% of polluting gases from traffic, > not > fuel used, is from traffic idling. I got that figure from > pro-regulation > man Prof David Begg. As you might have read, chronic lung disease and > malformations occur in children who live on or near main roads. My > lung > function has suffered since I moved to King's Cross. On the Euston > Road, I > see catastrophic congestion every day of the week, caused largely by > an > endless procession of mandatory traffic lights, permanent bus lanes, > and > the congestion charge which forces vehicles on to outer routes. >> >> Please cite sources for the claim that 40% of fuel is used from >> idling. I suspect that it is a misinterpretation of the data. A >> typical vehicle consumes about a tenth as much fuel per unit of time >> while idling as under load (typically about 1 liter per hour for a >> car and 2 liters an hour for a large truck). If an average vehicle > is >> driven 1 hour per day and idles 5 minutes, idling represents about > 1% >> of total fuel consumption. >> >> I think Cassini may be confusing idling with stop-and-go driving >> conditions, but I'm skeptical that the traffic management strategies >> he advocates would actually increase traffic efficiencies. I think >> there is a good case for converting stop signs and signal >> intersections to roundabouts, but I've yet to see evidence that >> eliminating traffic controls altogether ("naked streets") reduces >> delay or crash risk overall in most situations. >> >> There are many anti-idling campaigns underway, but most seem to >> exaggerate the benefits, they are an excuse to avoid the more >> critical reforms needed to reduce economically excessive vehicle >> travel and associated social costs (see > http://www.vtpi.org/wwclimate.pdf >> ). >> >> >> Best wishes, >> -Todd Litman >> >> >> At 10:42 AM 5/6/2007, Martin Cassini wrote: >>>Dashing out, but in the UK, about 30% of our CO2 output is from > traffic. >>>Prof David Begg admits that 40% of that is from traffic idling. How >>>often does traffic idle at lights for no good reason? I live in > King's >>>Cross, and I would say a good (or bad!) half the time. Also you have > to >>>add the cost of manufacturing, installing, maintaining and RUNNING > the >>>galaxy of 24-hour lights - this alone represents a massive carbon >>>footprint. If it wasn't for the lights, traffic would filter and > flow, >>>instead of continually stop, idle and re-start. Traffic volume can be > a >>>drama, but volume + controls = crisis. >>> >>>Martin >> >> >> Sincerely, >> Todd Alexander Litman >> Victoria Transport Policy Institute (www.vtpi.org) >> litman@vtpi.org >> Phone & Fax 250-360-1560 >> 1250 Rudlin Street, Victoria, BC, V8V 3R7, CANADA >> "Efficiency - Equity - Clarity" >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via >> YAHOOGROUPS. >> >> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss > to >> join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The >> yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post > to >> the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem > like >> you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. >> >> ================================================================ >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing > countries >> (the 'Global South'). > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to > join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The > yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to > the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem > like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to > join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The > yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to > the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like > you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From markus at sander.ms Thu May 10 21:31:29 2007 From: markus at sander.ms (Markus Sander) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 14:31:29 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Re: Fuel consumed by idling In-Reply-To: <50541.86.129.138.72.1178790866.SVIUQ21NQU52Rg==.squirrel@86.129.138.72> References: <463E1177.30706@greenidea.info> <002901c79005$f2daf2e0$b83a2352@mc> <6.2.3.4.2.20070507104139.038c6b10@mail.islandnet.com> <50541.86.129.138.72.1178790866.SVIUQ21NQU52Rg==.squirrel@86.129.138.72> Message-ID: <20070510123129.GA28170@sander.ms> On Thu, May 10, 2007 at 10:54:26AM +0100, martincassini@blueyonder.co.uk wrote: > I thought I said, and meant, that 40% of polluting gases from traffic, not > fuel used, is from traffic idling. I got that figure from pro-regulation I still don't see what's the problem. Assuming that the time a car motor is switched on is constant, it is better burning fuel while idling instead of burning fuel while driving. Pleae take into account that the traveling *time* is the long term constant, not the distance. If you substitute 'idling' with 'driving slow' your statement would be: "40% of pollutions are from traffic driving slow" and "if everyone goes faster, we have less pollution". That doesn't make sense. -- (c) markus From madhav.g.badami at mcgill.ca Thu May 10 22:17:08 2007 From: madhav.g.badami at mcgill.ca (Madhav Badami, Prof.) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 09:17:08 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: Fuel consumed by idling References: <463E1177.30706@greenidea.info> <002901c79005$f2daf2e0$b83a2352@mc> <6.2.3.4.2.20070507104139.038c6b10@mail.islandnet.com> <50541.86.129.138.72.1178790866.SVIUQ21NQU52Rg==.squirrel@86.129.138.72> <20070510123129.GA28170@sander.ms> Message-ID: <45AEE06A4800AF4FAD8BEF09C433D85F030780F6@EXCHANGE2VS2.campus.mcgill.ca> Hello all, Quite apart from what idling (or indeed motor vehicle activity generally) does in terms of air pollution and energy consumption, I think there is a larger picture here, that it is important that we do not lose sight of. I think it is unwise to look at the urban transport problem through the prism of only air pollution, or energy, or whatever (important though each of these issues is). This is because policies to address one urban transport impact can not only fail to address but in fact exacerbate other impacts. As we all know, attempts to smoothen motor vehicle traffic flow in order to address congestion (and fuel consumption and air pollution) can affect accessibility, and particularly so when there is, as in many low income countries, a very large number of pedestrians. Smart urban transport policy should therefore look for ways to simultaneously address a wide range of urban transport impacts, at low cost; indeed, a "reconciliation of valid opposites", to use EF Schumacher's felicitious terminology, is what public policy should do generally. Trying to address multiple urban transport objectives (accessibility, energy consumption, air pollution, road safety, and so on) so that we end up with a system that is low cost, ecologically benign, and socially just, is particularly important in low income countries, where urban transport impacts are severe (despite low levels of motorization), on account of poor quality technologies, highly constrained financial and administrative resources, and a large share of the populace has no ability to own and operate motor vehicles but yet are heavily exposed to and affected by their impacts. Particularly in such situations, ensuring accessibility, I would argue, is the absolutely number 1 priority. After all, a significant proportion of trips are short distance and capable of being conducted by foot. If we can ensure that these trips are indeed conducted by foot (which is increasingly not the case, precisely because access is being severely compromised thanks to rapidly growing motor vehicle activity, planning to accommodate it, and utter disregard for pedestrians and cyclists), and provide convenient and affordable public transit, then air pollution and (fossil fuel!) energy consumption would not be such a big deal, and we wouldn't have to fuss about how much idling contributes to either. Cheers, Madhav ************************************************************************ "As for the future, your task is not to foresee, but to enable it." Antoine de Saint-Exupery Madhav G. Badami, PhD School of Urban Planning and McGill School of Environment McGill University Macdonald-Harrington Building 815 Sherbrooke Street West Montreal, QC, H3A 2K6, Canada Phone: 514-398-3183 (Work); 514-486-2370 (Home) Fax: 514-398-8376; 514-398-1643 URLs: www.mcgill.ca/urbanplanning www.mcgill.ca/mse e-mail: madhav.badami@mcgill.ca -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+madhav.g.badami=mcgill.ca@list.jca.apc.org on behalf of Markus Sander Sent: Thu 5/10/2007 8:31 AM To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Subject: [sustran] Re: Fuel consumed by idling On Thu, May 10, 2007 at 10:54:26AM +0100, martincassini@blueyonder.co.uk wrote: > I thought I said, and meant, that 40% of polluting gases from traffic, not > fuel used, is from traffic idling. I got that figure from pro-regulation I still don't see what's the problem. Assuming that the time a car motor is switched on is constant, it is better burning fuel while idling instead of burning fuel while driving. Pleae take into account that the traveling *time* is the long term constant, not the distance. If you substitute 'idling' with 'driving slow' your statement would be: "40% of pollutions are from traffic driving slow" and "if everyone goes faster, we have less pollution". That doesn't make sense. -- (c) markus -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From zvi at inro.ca Thu May 10 23:44:45 2007 From: zvi at inro.ca (Zvi Leve) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 10:44:45 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: Fuel consumed by idling In-Reply-To: <45AEE06A4800AF4FAD8BEF09C433D85F030780F4@EXCHANGE2VS2.campus.mcgill.ca> References: <463E1177.30706@greenidea.info> <002901c79005$f2daf2e0$b83a2352@mc> <6.2.3.4.2.20070507104139.038c6b10@mail.islandnet.com> <50541.86.129.138.72.1178790866.SVIUQ21NQU52Rg==.squirrel@86.129.138.72> <4642B48F0200003800006219@HERMES.wri.org> <50861.86.129.138.72.1178796376.SVIUQ21NQU52Rg==.squirrel@86.129.138.72> <45AEE06A4800AF4FAD8BEF09C433D85F030780F4@EXCHANGE2VS2.campus.mcgill.ca> Message-ID: <46432FDD.60201@inro.ca> Also don't forget that "cold engines" (say in the first half-hour of use) emit significantly more pollutants (orders of magnitude more) than warm ones. If many buses (and trains) begin their routes at Kings Cross and are immediately stuck in congestion when trying to leave the area, then that would be a particularly bad situation! Zvi Madhav Badami, Prof. wrote: > Martin Cassini wrote: "I thought I said, and meant, that 40% of polluting gases from traffic, not fuel used, is from traffic idling.", and then asked about CO2. > > I will have to check on the share of idling in emissions of various "criteria" air pollutants in city driving, but as far as CO2 is concerned, the share of idling in CO2 emissions must be the same as its share in fuel consumption, since CO2 is strictly a function of how much, rather than how, the fuel is burnt. > > Madhav > > ************************************************************************ > > "As for the future, your task is not to foresee, but to enable it." > Antoine de Saint-Exupery > > Madhav G. Badami, PhD > School of Urban Planning and McGill School of Environment > McGill University > Macdonald-Harrington Building > 815 Sherbrooke Street West > Montreal, QC, H3A 2K6, Canada > > Phone: 514-398-3183 (Work); 514-486-2370 (Home) > Fax: 514-398-8376; 514-398-1643 > URLs: www.mcgill.ca/urbanplanning > www.mcgill.ca/mse > e-mail: madhav.badami@mcgill.ca > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sustran-discuss-bounces+madhav.g.badami=mcgill.ca@list.jca.apc.org on behalf of martincassini@blueyonder.co.uk > Sent: Thu 5/10/2007 7:26 AM > To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport > Subject: [sustran] Re: Fuel consumed by idling > > Given a green light (!) for the film and/or TV programme / series that I'm > planning, there will be the opportunity to research and establish these > and other facts and figures. One question: why are g/km (CO2 per > kilometre) figures published but not g/pm (CO2 per minute engine > running/idling)? Even the manufacturers don't seem to know. > > Martin > > >> I still have trouble with that figure ??" would love to see a clear, >> published, written reference where >> we can see the sources, assumptions, and numbers crunched. And of >> course, let us know which gases! >> >> >>>>> 5/10/2007 5:54:26 AM >>> >>>>> >> I thought I said, and meant, that 40% of polluting gases from traffic, >> not >> fuel used, is from traffic idling. I got that figure from >> pro-regulation >> man Prof David Begg. As you might have read, chronic lung disease and >> malformations occur in children who live on or near main roads. My >> lung >> function has suffered since I moved to King's Cross. On the Euston >> Road, I >> see catastrophic congestion every day of the week, caused largely by >> an >> endless procession of mandatory traffic lights, permanent bus lanes, >> and >> the congestion charge which forces vehicles on to outer routes. >> >>> Please cite sources for the claim that 40% of fuel is used from >>> idling. I suspect that it is a misinterpretation of the data. A >>> typical vehicle consumes about a tenth as much fuel per unit of time >>> while idling as under load (typically about 1 liter per hour for a >>> car and 2 liters an hour for a large truck). If an average vehicle >>> >> is >> >>> driven 1 hour per day and idles 5 minutes, idling represents about >>> >> 1% >> >>> of total fuel consumption. >>> >>> I think Cassini may be confusing idling with stop-and-go driving >>> conditions, but I'm skeptical that the traffic management strategies >>> he advocates would actually increase traffic efficiencies. I think >>> there is a good case for converting stop signs and signal >>> intersections to roundabouts, but I've yet to see evidence that >>> eliminating traffic controls altogether ("naked streets") reduces >>> delay or crash risk overall in most situations. >>> >>> There are many anti-idling campaigns underway, but most seem to >>> exaggerate the benefits, they are an excuse to avoid the more >>> critical reforms needed to reduce economically excessive vehicle >>> travel and associated social costs (see >>> >> http://www.vtpi.org/wwclimate.pdf >> >>> ). >>> >>> >>> Best wishes, >>> -Todd Litman >>> >>> >>> At 10:42 AM 5/6/2007, Martin Cassini wrote: >>> >>>> Dashing out, but in the UK, about 30% of our CO2 output is from >>>> >> traffic. >> >>>> Prof David Begg admits that 40% of that is from traffic idling. How >>>> often does traffic idle at lights for no good reason? I live in >>>> >> King's >> >>>> Cross, and I would say a good (or bad!) half the time. Also you have >>>> >> to >> >>>> add the cost of manufacturing, installing, maintaining and RUNNING >>>> >> the >> >>>> galaxy of 24-hour lights - this alone represents a massive carbon >>>> footprint. If it wasn't for the lights, traffic would filter and >>>> >> flow, >> >>>> instead of continually stop, idle and re-start. Traffic volume can be >>>> >> a >> >>>> drama, but volume + controls = crisis. >>>> >>>> Martin >>>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Todd Alexander Litman >>> Victoria Transport Policy Institute (www.vtpi.org) >>> litman@vtpi.org >>> Phone & Fax 250-360-1560 >>> 1250 Rudlin Street, Victoria, BC, V8V 3R7, CANADA >>> "Efficiency - Equity - Clarity" >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------- >>> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via >>> YAHOOGROUPS. >>> >>> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss >>> >> to >> >>> join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The >>> yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post >>> >> to >> >>> the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem >>> >> like >> >>> you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. >>> >>> ================================================================ >>> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >>> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing >>> >> countries >> >>> (the 'Global South'). >>> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via >> YAHOOGROUPS. >> >> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to >> join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The >> yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to >> the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem >> like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. >> >> ================================================================ >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries >> (the 'Global South'). >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via >> YAHOOGROUPS. >> >> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to >> join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The >> yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to >> the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like >> you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. >> >> ================================================================ >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries >> (the 'Global South'). >> > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). > > From madhav.g.badami at mcgill.ca Thu May 10 23:58:46 2007 From: madhav.g.badami at mcgill.ca (Madhav Badami, Prof.) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 10:58:46 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: Fuel consumed by idling References: <463E1177.30706@greenidea.info><002901c79005$f2daf2e0$b83a2352@mc> <6.2.3.4.2.20070507104139.038c6b10@mail.islandnet.com> <50541.86.129.138.72.1178790866.SVIUQ21NQU52Rg==.squirrel@86.129.138.72> <4642B48F0200003800006219@HERMES.wri.org> <50861.86.129.138.72.1178796376.SVIUQ21NQU52Rg==.squirrel@86.129.138.72><45AEE06A4800AF4FAD8BEF09C433D85F030780F4@EXCHANGE2VS2.campus.mcgill.ca> <46432FDD.60201@inro.ca> Message-ID: <45AEE06A4800AF4FAD8BEF09C433D85F030780F9@EXCHANGE2VS2.campus.mcgill.ca> Re: the technical issue of idling before I sign off for the day ... I said that CO2 is strictly a function of fuel consumed. I was thinking about it, and it occurred to me that this would not be the case on two-stroke motorcycles for example, where as much as 30% of the fuel-air charge can escape unburned through the exhaust due largely to ?mixture short-circuiting?. Perhaps I should have said "fuel burned" rather than "fuel consumed". One other point ... As for the share of idling in trip fuel consumption and emissions, or for that matter, the share of trip-end (cold start and hot soak) emissions that Zvi Leve brought up, the situation is likely to be different in different contexts, on account of vehicle technology and driving cycle differences. Madhav ************************************************************************ "As for the future, your task is not to foresee, but to enable it." Antoine de Saint-Exupery Madhav G. Badami, PhD School of Urban Planning and McGill School of Environment McGill University Macdonald-Harrington Building 815 Sherbrooke Street West Montreal, QC, H3A 2K6, Canada Phone: 514-398-3183 (Work); 514-486-2370 (Home) Fax: 514-398-8376; 514-398-1643 URLs: www.mcgill.ca/urbanplanning www.mcgill.ca/mse e-mail: madhav.badami@mcgill.ca -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+madhav.g.badami=mcgill.ca@list.jca.apc.org on behalf of Zvi Leve Sent: Thu 5/10/2007 10:44 AM To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Subject: [sustran] Re: Fuel consumed by idling Also don't forget that "cold engines" (say in the first half-hour of use) emit significantly more pollutants (orders of magnitude more) than warm ones. If many buses (and trains) begin their routes at Kings Cross and are immediately stuck in congestion when trying to leave the area, then that would be a particularly bad situation! Zvi Madhav Badami, Prof. wrote: > Martin Cassini wrote: "I thought I said, and meant, that 40% of polluting gases from traffic, not fuel used, is from traffic idling.", and then asked about CO2. > > I will have to check on the share of idling in emissions of various "criteria" air pollutants in city driving, but as far as CO2 is concerned, the share of idling in CO2 emissions must be the same as its share in fuel consumption, since CO2 is strictly a function of how much, rather than how, the fuel is burnt. > > Madhav > > ************************************************************************ > > "As for the future, your task is not to foresee, but to enable it." > Antoine de Saint-Exupery > > Madhav G. Badami, PhD > School of Urban Planning and McGill School of Environment > McGill University > Macdonald-Harrington Building > 815 Sherbrooke Street West > Montreal, QC, H3A 2K6, Canada > > Phone: 514-398-3183 (Work); 514-486-2370 (Home) > Fax: 514-398-8376; 514-398-1643 > URLs: www.mcgill.ca/urbanplanning > www.mcgill.ca/mse > e-mail: madhav.badami@mcgill.ca > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sustran-discuss-bounces+madhav.g.badami=mcgill.ca@list.jca.apc.org on behalf of martincassini@blueyonder.co.uk > Sent: Thu 5/10/2007 7:26 AM > To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport > Subject: [sustran] Re: Fuel consumed by idling > > Given a green light (!) for the film and/or TV programme / series that I'm > planning, there will be the opportunity to research and establish these > and other facts and figures. One question: why are g/km (CO2 per > kilometre) figures published but not g/pm (CO2 per minute engine > running/idling)? Even the manufacturers don't seem to know. > > Martin > > >> I still have trouble with that figure ??" would love to see a clear, >> published, written reference where >> we can see the sources, assumptions, and numbers crunched. And of >> course, let us know which gases! >> >> >>>>> 5/10/2007 5:54:26 AM >>> >>>>> >> I thought I said, and meant, that 40% of polluting gases from traffic, >> not >> fuel used, is from traffic idling. I got that figure from >> pro-regulation >> man Prof David Begg. As you might have read, chronic lung disease and >> malformations occur in children who live on or near main roads. My >> lung >> function has suffered since I moved to King's Cross. On the Euston >> Road, I >> see catastrophic congestion every day of the week, caused largely by >> an >> endless procession of mandatory traffic lights, permanent bus lanes, >> and >> the congestion charge which forces vehicles on to outer routes. >> >>> Please cite sources for the claim that 40% of fuel is used from >>> idling. I suspect that it is a misinterpretation of the data. A >>> typical vehicle consumes about a tenth as much fuel per unit of time >>> while idling as under load (typically about 1 liter per hour for a >>> car and 2 liters an hour for a large truck). If an average vehicle >>> >> is >> >>> driven 1 hour per day and idles 5 minutes, idling represents about >>> >> 1% >> >>> of total fuel consumption. >>> >>> I think Cassini may be confusing idling with stop-and-go driving >>> conditions, but I'm skeptical that the traffic management strategies >>> he advocates would actually increase traffic efficiencies. I think >>> there is a good case for converting stop signs and signal >>> intersections to roundabouts, but I've yet to see evidence that >>> eliminating traffic controls altogether ("naked streets") reduces >>> delay or crash risk overall in most situations. >>> >>> There are many anti-idling campaigns underway, but most seem to >>> exaggerate the benefits, they are an excuse to avoid the more >>> critical reforms needed to reduce economically excessive vehicle >>> travel and associated social costs (see >>> >> http://www.vtpi.org/wwclimate.pdf >> >>> ). >>> >>> >>> Best wishes, >>> -Todd Litman >>> >>> >>> At 10:42 AM 5/6/2007, Martin Cassini wrote: >>> >>>> Dashing out, but in the UK, about 30% of our CO2 output is from >>>> >> traffic. >> >>>> Prof David Begg admits that 40% of that is from traffic idling. How >>>> often does traffic idle at lights for no good reason? I live in >>>> >> King's >> >>>> Cross, and I would say a good (or bad!) half the time. Also you have >>>> >> to >> >>>> add the cost of manufacturing, installing, maintaining and RUNNING >>>> >> the >> >>>> galaxy of 24-hour lights - this alone represents a massive carbon >>>> footprint. If it wasn't for the lights, traffic would filter and >>>> >> flow, >> >>>> instead of continually stop, idle and re-start. Traffic volume can be >>>> >> a >> >>>> drama, but volume + controls = crisis. >>>> >>>> Martin >>>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Todd Alexander Litman >>> Victoria Transport Policy Institute (www.vtpi.org) >>> litman@vtpi.org >>> Phone & Fax 250-360-1560 >>> 1250 Rudlin Street, Victoria, BC, V8V 3R7, CANADA >>> "Efficiency - Equity - Clarity" >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------- >>> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via >>> YAHOOGROUPS. >>> >>> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss >>> >> to >> >>> join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The >>> yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post >>> >> to >> >>> the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem >>> >> like >> >>> you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. >>> >>> ================================================================ >>> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >>> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing >>> >> countries >> >>> (the 'Global South'). >>> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via >> YAHOOGROUPS. >> >> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to >> join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The >> yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to >> the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem >> like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. >> >> ================================================================ >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries >> (the 'Global South'). >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via >> YAHOOGROUPS. >> >> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to >> join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The >> yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to >> the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like >> you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. >> >> ================================================================ >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries >> (the 'Global South'). >> > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). > > -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From chuwasg at yahoo.com Fri May 11 00:33:13 2007 From: chuwasg at yahoo.com (chuwa) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 08:33:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sustran] Re: Fuel consumed by idling Message-ID: <522004.15280.qm@web36905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/atv.shtml Above link shows, idling use up 17% of fuel in typical American cars. The resulting "productivity" towards transportation is only 15%. Assume a typical car weight 1000kg and a typical person is 100kg, the 15% efficiency becomes 1.4% (the human part). I would argue, the rest of the 98.6% generate all sorts of pollution and damage (air, noise, road danger etc.) In this context, even cutting down the idle time by half doesn't seems to help much. Chu Wa Proud cyclist commuter ----- Original Message ---- From: "Madhav Badami, Prof." To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 10:58:46 PM Subject: [sustran] Re: Fuel consumed by idling Re: the technical issue of idling before I sign off for the day ... I said that CO2 is strictly a function of fuel consumed. I was thinking about it, and it occurred to me that this would not be the case on two-stroke motorcycles for example, where as much as 30% of the fuel-air charge can escape unburned through the exhaust due largely to ?mixture short-circuiting?. Perhaps I should have said "fuel burned" rather than "fuel consumed". One other point ... As for the share of idling in trip fuel consumption and emissions, or for that matter, the share of trip-end (cold start and hot soak) emissions that Zvi Leve brought up, the situation is likely to be different in different contexts, on account of vehicle technology and driving cycle differences. Madhav ************************************************************************ "As for the future, your task is not to foresee, but to enable it." Antoine de Saint-Exupery Madhav G. Badami, PhD School of Urban Planning and McGill School of Environment McGill University Macdonald-Harrington Building 815 Sherbrooke Street West Montreal, QC, H3A 2K6, Canada Phone: 514-398-3183 (Work); 514-486-2370 (Home) Fax: 514-398-8376; 514-398-1643 URLs: www.mcgill.ca/urbanplanning www.mcgill.ca/mse e-mail: madhav.badami@mcgill.ca -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+madhav.g.badami=mcgill.ca@list.jca.apc.org on behalf of Zvi Leve Sent: Thu 5/10/2007 10:44 AM To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Subject: [sustran] Re: Fuel consumed by idling Also don't forget that "cold engines" (say in the first half-hour of use) emit significantly more pollutants (orders of magnitude more) than warm ones. If many buses (and trains) begin their routes at Kings Cross and are immediately stuck in congestion when trying to leave the area, then that would be a particularly bad situation! Zvi Madhav Badami, Prof. wrote: > Martin Cassini wrote: "I thought I said, and meant, that 40% of polluting gases from traffic, not fuel used, is from traffic idling.", and then asked about CO2. > > I will have to check on the share of idling in emissions of various "criteria" air pollutants in city driving, but as far as CO2 is concerned, the share of idling in CO2 emissions must be the same as its share in fuel consumption, since CO2 is strictly a function of how much, rather than how, the fuel is burnt. > > Madhav > > ************************************************************************ > > "As for the future, your task is not to foresee, but to enable it." > Antoine de Saint-Exupery > > Madhav G. Badami, PhD > School of Urban Planning and McGill School of Environment > McGill University > Macdonald-Harrington Building > 815 Sherbrooke Street West > Montreal, QC, H3A 2K6, Canada > > Phone: 514-398-3183 (Work); 514-486-2370 (Home) > Fax: 514-398-8376; 514-398-1643 > URLs: www.mcgill.ca/urbanplanning > www.mcgill.ca/mse > e-mail: madhav.badami@mcgill.ca > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sustran-discuss-bounces+madhav.g.badami=mcgill.ca@list.jca.apc.org on behalf of martincassini@blueyonder.co.uk > Sent: Thu 5/10/2007 7:26 AM > To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport > Subject: [sustran] Re: Fuel consumed by idling > > Given a green light (!) for the film and/or TV programme / series that I'm > planning, there will be the opportunity to research and establish these > and other facts and figures. One question: why are g/km (CO2 per > kilometre) figures published but not g/pm (CO2 per minute engine > running/idling)? Even the manufacturers don't seem to know. > > Martin > > >> I still have trouble with that figure ??" would love to see a clear, >> published, written reference where >> we can see the sources, assumptions, and numbers crunched. And of >> course, let us know which gases! >> >> >>>>> 5/10/2007 5:54:26 AM >>> >>>>> >> I thought I said, and meant, that 40% of polluting gases from traffic, >> not >> fuel used, is from traffic idling. I got that figure from >> pro-regulation >> man Prof David Begg. As you might have read, chronic lung disease and >> malformations occur in children who live on or near main roads. My >> lung >> function has suffered since I moved to King's Cross. On the Euston >> Road, I >> see catastrophic congestion every day of the week, caused largely by >> an >> endless procession of mandatory traffic lights, permanent bus lanes, >> and >> the congestion charge which forces vehicles on to outer routes. >> >>> Please cite sources for the claim that 40% of fuel is used from >>> idling. I suspect that it is a misinterpretation of the data. A >>> typical vehicle consumes about a tenth as much fuel per unit of time >>> while idling as under load (typically about 1 liter per hour for a >>> car and 2 liters an hour for a large truck). If an average vehicle >>> >> is >> >>> driven 1 hour per day and idles 5 minutes, idling represents about >>> >> 1% >> >>> of total fuel consumption. >>> >>> I think Cassini may be confusing idling with stop-and-go driving >>> conditions, but I'm skeptical that the traffic management strategies >>> he advocates would actually increase traffic efficiencies. I think >>> there is a good case for converting stop signs and signal >>> intersections to roundabouts, but I've yet to see evidence that >>> eliminating traffic controls altogether ("naked streets") reduces >>> delay or crash risk overall in most situations. >>> >>> There are many anti-idling campaigns underway, but most seem to >>> exaggerate the benefits, they are an excuse to avoid the more >>> critical reforms needed to reduce economically excessive vehicle >>> travel and associated social costs (see >>> >> http://www.vtpi.org/wwclimate.pdf >> >>> ). >>> >>> >>> Best wishes, >>> -Todd Litman >>> >>> >>> At 10:42 AM 5/6/2007, Martin Cassini wrote: >>> >>>> Dashing out, but in the UK, about 30% of our CO2 output is from >>>> >> traffic. >> >>>> Prof David Begg admits that 40% of that is from traffic idling. How >>>> often does traffic idle at lights for no good reason? I live in >>>> >> King's >> >>>> Cross, and I would say a good (or bad!) half the time. Also you have >>>> >> to >> >>>> add the cost of manufacturing, installing, maintaining and RUNNING >>>> >> the >> >>>> galaxy of 24-hour lights - this alone represents a massive carbon >>>> footprint. If it wasn't for the lights, traffic would filter and >>>> >> flow, >> >>>> instead of continually stop, idle and re-start. Traffic volume can be >>>> >> a >> >>>> drama, but volume + controls = crisis. >>>> >>>> Martin >>>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Todd Alexander Litman >>> Victoria Transport Policy Institute (www.vtpi.org) >>> litman@vtpi.org >>> Phone & Fax 250-360-1560 >>> 1250 Rudlin Street, Victoria, BC, V8V 3R7, CANADA >>> "Efficiency - Equity - Clarity" >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------- >>> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via >>> YAHOOGROUPS. >>> >>> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss >>> >> to >> >>> join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The >>> yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post >>> >> to >> >>> the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem >>> >> like >> >>> you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. >>> >>> ================================================================ >>> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >>> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing >>> >> countries >> >>> (the 'Global South'). >>> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via >> YAHOOGROUPS. >> >> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to >> join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The >> yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to >> the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem >> like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. >> >> ================================================================ >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries >> (the 'Global South'). >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via >> YAHOOGROUPS. >> >> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to >> join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The >> yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to >> the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like >> you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. >> >> ================================================================ >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries >> (the 'Global South'). >> > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). > > -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). 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URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070510/266d2539/attachment.html From SCHIPPER at wri.org Fri May 11 00:43:23 2007 From: SCHIPPER at wri.org (Lee Schipper) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 11:43:23 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: Fuel consumed by idling In-Reply-To: <522004.15280.qm@web36905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <522004.15280.qm@web36905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4643055B020000380000636E@HERMES.wri.org> Don't believe any of this ? the time spent idling would have ot be 40-50% of the total time the car is running. >>> chuwa 5/10/2007 11:33:13 AM >>> http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/atv.shtml Above link shows, idling use up 17% of fuel in typical American cars. The resulting "productivity" towards transportation is only 15%. Assume a typical car weight 1000kg and a typical person is 100kg, the 15% efficiency becomes 1.4% (the human part). I would argue, the rest of the 98.6% generate all sorts of pollution and damage (air, noise, road danger etc.) In this context, even cutting down the idle time by half doesn't seems to help much. Chu Wa Proud cyclist commuter ----- Original Message ---- From: "Madhav Badami, Prof." To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 10:58:46 PM Subject: [sustran] Re: Fuel consumed by idling Re: the technical issue of idling before I sign off for the day ... I said that CO2 is strictly a function of fuel consumed. I was thinking about it, and it occurred to me that this would not be the case on two-stroke motorcycles for example, where as much as 30% of the fuel-air charge can escape unburned through the exhaust due largely to ?mixture short-circuiting?. Perhaps I should have said "fuel burned" rather than "fuel consumed". One other point ... As for the share of idling in trip fuel consumption and emissions, or for that matter, the share of trip-end (cold start and hot soak) emissions that Zvi Leve brought up, the situation is likely to be different in different contexts, on account of vehicle technology and driving cycle differences. Madhav ************************************************************************ "As for the future, your task is not to foresee, but to enable it." Antoine de Saint-Exupery Madhav G. Badami, PhD School of Urban Planning and McGill School of Environment McGill University Macdonald-Harrington Building 815 Sherbrooke Street West Montreal, QC, H3A 2K6, Canada Phone: 514-398-3183 (Work); 514-486-2370 (Home) Fax: 514-398-8376; 514-398-1643 URLs: www.mcgill.ca/urbanplanning www.mcgill.ca/mse e-mail: madhav.badami@mcgill.ca -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+madhav.g.badami=mcgill.ca@list.jca.apc.org on behalf of Zvi Leve Sent: Thu 5/10/2007 10:44 AM To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Subject: [sustran] Re: Fuel consumed by idling Also don't forget that "cold engines" (say in the first half-hour of use) emit significantly more pollutants (orders of magnitude more) than warm ones. If many buses (and trains) begin their routes at Kings Cross and are immediately stuck in congestion when trying to leave the area, then that would be a particularly bad situation! Zvi Madhav Badami, Prof. wrote: > Martin Cassini wrote: "I thought I said, and meant, that 40% of polluting gases from traffic, not fuel used, is from traffic idling.", and then asked about CO2. > > I will have to check on the share of idling in emissions of various "criteria" air pollutants in city driving, but as far as CO2 is concerned, the share of idling in CO2 emissions must be the same as its share in fuel consumption, since CO2 is strictly a function of how much, rather than how, the fuel is burnt. > > Madhav > > ************************************************************************ > > "As for the future, your task is not to foresee, but to enable it." > Antoine de Saint-Exupery > > Madhav G. Badami, PhD > School of Urban Planning and McGill School of Environment > McGill University > Macdonald-Harrington Building > 815 Sherbrooke Street West > Montreal, QC, H3A 2K6, Canada > > Phone: 514-398-3183 (Work); 514-486-2370 (Home) > Fax: 514-398-8376; 514-398-1643 > URLs: www.mcgill.ca/urbanplanning > www.mcgill.ca/mse > e-mail: madhav.badami@mcgill.ca > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sustran-discuss-bounces+madhav.g.badami=mcgill.ca@list.jca.apc.org on behalf of martincassini@blueyonder.co.uk > Sent: Thu 5/10/2007 7:26 AM > To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport > Subject: [sustran] Re: Fuel consumed by idling > > Given a green light (!) for the film and/or TV programme / series that I'm > planning, there will be the opportunity to research and establish these > and other facts and figures. One question: why are g/km (CO2 per > kilometre) figures published but not g/pm (CO2 per minute engine > running/idling)? Even the manufacturers don't seem to know. > > Martin > > >> I still have trouble with that figure ??" would love to see a clear, >> published, written reference where >> we can see the sources, assumptions, and numbers crunched. And of >> course, let us know which gases! >> >> >>>>> 5/10/2007 5:54:26 AM >>> >>>>> >> I thought I said, and meant, that 40% of polluting gases from traffic, >> not >> fuel used, is from traffic idling. I got that figure from >> pro-regulation >> man Prof David Begg. As you might have read, chronic lung disease and >> malformations occur in children who live on or near main roads. My >> lung >> function has suffered since I moved to King's Cross. On the Euston >> Road, I >> see catastrophic congestion every day of the week, caused largely by >> an >> endless procession of mandatory traffic lights, permanent bus lanes, >> and >> the congestion charge which forces vehicles on to outer routes. >> >>> Please cite sources for the claim that 40% of fuel is used from >>> idling. I suspect that it is a misinterpretation of the data. A >>> typical vehicle consumes about a tenth as much fuel per unit of time >>> while idling as under load (typically about 1 liter per hour for a >>> car and 2 liters an hour for a large truck). If an average vehicle >>> >> is >> >>> driven 1 hour per day and idles 5 minutes, idling represents about >>> >> 1% >> >>> of total fuel consumption. >>> >>> I think Cassini may be confusing idling with stop-and-go driving >>> conditions, but I'm skeptical that the traffic management strategies >>> he advocates would actually increase traffic efficiencies. I think >>> there is a good case for converting stop signs and signal >>> intersections to roundabouts, but I've yet to see evidence that >>> eliminating traffic controls altogether ("naked streets") reduces >>> delay or crash risk overall in most situations. >>> >>> There are many anti-idling campaigns underway, but most seem to >>> exaggerate the benefits, they are an excuse to avoid the more >>> critical reforms needed to reduce economically excessive vehicle >>> travel and associated social costs (see >>> >> http://www.vtpi.org/wwclimate.pdf >> >>> ). >>> >>> >>> Best wishes, >>> -Todd Litman >>> >>> >>> At 10:42 AM 5/6/2007, Martin Cassini wrote: >>> >>>> Dashing out, but in the UK, about 30% of our CO2 output is from >>>> >> traffic. >> >>>> Prof David Begg admits that 40% of that is from traffic idling. How >>>> often does traffic idle at lights for no good reason? I live in >>>> >> King's >> >>>> Cross, and I would say a good (or bad!) half the time. Also you have >>>> >> to >> >>>> add the cost of manufacturing, installing, maintaining and RUNNING >>>> >> the >> >>>> galaxy of 24-hour lights - this alone represents a massive carbon >>>> footprint. If it wasn't for the lights, traffic would filter and >>>> >> flow, >> >>>> instead of continually stop, idle and re-start. Traffic volume can be >>>> >> a >> >>>> drama, but volume + controls = crisis. >>>> >>>> Martin >>>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Todd Alexander Litman >>> Victoria Transport Policy Institute (www.vtpi.org) >>> litman@vtpi.org >>> Phone & Fax 250-360-1560 >>> 1250 Rudlin Street, Victoria, BC, V8V 3R7, CANADA >>> "Efficiency - Equity - Clarity" >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------- >>> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via >>> YAHOOGROUPS. >>> >>> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss >>> >> to >> >>> join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The >>> yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post >>> >> to >> >>> the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem >>> >> like >> >>> you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. >>> >>> ================================================================ >>> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >>> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing >>> >> countries >> >>> (the 'Global South'). >>> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via >> YAHOOGROUPS. >> >> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to >> join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The >> yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to >> the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem >> like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. >> >> ================================================================ >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries >> (the 'Global South'). >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via >> YAHOOGROUPS. >> >> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to >> join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The >> yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to >> the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like >> you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. >> >> ================================================================ >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries >> (the 'Global South'). >> > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). > > -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From carlos.pardo at sutp.org Fri May 11 22:49:06 2007 From: carlos.pardo at sutp.org (Carlos F. Pardo) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 08:49:06 -0500 Subject: [sustran] IHT news article: Ditching laissez-faire, India plans a city Message-ID: <46447452.2090107@sutp.org> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070511/32f10677/attachment.html From edelman at greenidea.info Fri May 11 23:07:38 2007 From: edelman at greenidea.info (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 16:07:38 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Re: IHT news article: Ditching laissez-faire, India plans a city In-Reply-To: <46447452.2090107@sutp.org> References: <46447452.2090107@sutp.org> Message-ID: <464478AA.2060905@greenidea.info> The air cargo part by itself is a first-class ecological horror. There is some talk of green spaces, PT and rainwater harvesting but it really sounds like a giant bag of errors. Provides a nice contrast to the city planned for Abu Dhabi: Carfree city for rich people vs. a city with a few eco-touches for people whom you except to get rich, shop-til-they-drop and drive cars. It is good that something is happening with a plan... but who is doing the plan? Sorry, but without knowing more details it sounds like the plans need to be torn up. T Carlos F. Pardo wrote: > Hi, > > Below is something to think about... does anyone know in greater > detail how this city is being planned? The article mentions it will be > a "metropolis", "hub of India", "malls will be built" etc. Mumford, > Lynch and other authors should be further diffused among policymakers > and planners (at least an abridged version!).* *Best regards, Carlos.* > > > Ditching laissez-faire, India plans a city* > By Anand Giridharadas > Thursday, May 10, 2007 > original source: http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/05/10/news/city.php > > *NAGPUR, India:* A year ago, this relatively small, forgettable city > in the heart of India did not have an air-conditioned cinema. In the > sweltering heat of May, the rich here were known to fly one hour to > Mumbai, the financial hub of India, to see a movie. There they stocked > up on Levi's jeans and Domino's pizza and other big-city treats that > Nagpur failed to provide. > > But in a social experiment highly unusual for this most unplanned of > countries, the Indian government has handpicked Nagpur to be fattened > and primped into an international metropolis. > > Lush parks and smooth roads have been lain, and malls and multiplex > cinemas have sprouted. A drastically renovated airport is to become > the cargo hub of India, with a terminal that is 100 times larger than > the existing one and is to handle at least 100 jets at a time instead > of the current five. An ecofriendly mass-transit system is being > planned to absorb an expected surge in road traffic, years before the > average Nagpurian owns a car. The government is building a special > economic zone with tax breaks and ready-to-use water, electricity and > fiber optic cable, in the hope of attracting 100,000 technology jobs > to a city long dominated by coal mining. > > Borrowing a chapter from China's playbook, the Indian government has > begun working to make metropolises out of smaller, isolated cities, > from Jaipur in the north to Vijayawada in the east to Mysore in the > south, garnishing them with fresh infrastructure like international > airports and financial grants linked to improvements in governance. > > "One hundred million people are moving to cities in the next 10 years, > and it's important that these 100 million are absorbed into > second-tier cities instead of showing up in Delhi or Mumbai," Montek > Singh Ahluwalia, the Indian government's chief economic planner, said > in a telephone conversation. > > Since its independence from Britain in 1947, the city-building > philosophy of India has been, to put it tenderly, laissez-faire. > Except for the recently developed technology hubs of Bangalore and > Hyderabad, India has not added cosmopolitan, globally connected > metropolises to its old ones: Calcutta, Delhi, Madras and Mumbai. As > the Indian population tripled, the 1.1 billion people living on about > 3 million square kilometers, or 1.1 million square miles, were left to > scramble for space and opportunity in the few thousand square > kilometers that contained well-paid jobs, 24-hour electricity and > air-conditioned cinemas. > > To take just one measure of the shortage of developed metropolises, > there are 65 million Indians for every airport with the > three-kilometer, or two-mile, runway required by large jetliners, > according to the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency. In the United > States, the figure is 1.6 million people; in China, 25 million. > > Even as China beefed up second-tier cities like Dalian, Hangzhou and > Tianjin and linked them to the world, India waited. And its cities > began to break. In Mumbai, a majority of people live in slums, and a > sewage river passes through just as the Seine streaks Paris. Delhi is > chronically short of water and electricity. Calcutta teems with > rickshaw drivers who break their bodies for a few cents a ride, > because there are too many people vying for work in so tiny a place. > > No one knows if India has the stamina to build Nagpur to completion, > and then build 20 more. But many experts regard metropolis-building as > a silver bullet for India, slaying many problems with a single shot. > > "Much of India's future will undeniably be made in the second-tier > cities," said Ashutosh Varshney, a specialist on Indian political > economy at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor. The existing > metropolises "will reach saturation points before long, or have > already reached such points, and re-engineering their capacities for > further growth will not be easy." > > New metropolises could erode poverty, easing the load on cramped, > Dickensian cities and creating more hubs where rural migrants can go > for jobs in textile mills or the retail sector. More international > airports could help raise incomes for the 700 million rural Indians by > making it easier for their produce to reach export markets. > > The Indian metropolis-building might also be an environmental boon. > Upstart cities like Nagpur, on which millions have yet to descend, can > grow on an ecofriendly model, with green spaces, mass transit and > rainwater harvesting, in a way that old cities, with entrenched > infrastructure, cannot. > > "There's a whole lot of leapfrogging possibilities when you're > creating new capitals," said Ahluwalia, the government planner. > > New cities are also craved by industry, which is struggling to pay > soaring land prices and wages in the traditional metropolises. > > Investors have long known this. What is new is the enthusiasm of the > government, which has pledged in the last two years to spend $29 > billion over seven years to upgrade 63 cities. Grants are given only > to cities that tighten governance and enact business-friendly policies > like scaling back rent control. More than half the funds are reserved > for 56 cities with populations below four million. > > One fact separates Nagpur, with an estimated 2.5 million people, from > the other 55: When the Indian government selected it as the air cargo > hub for the country, it guaranteed skeptical investors that this > obscure city would eventually rank with the busiest airports in the > world, with all the attendant job creation and prosperity. Nagpur was > chosen because it lies near the geographic center of India and is a > crossroads of road and rail traffic. > > "It has the potential to be the growth nucleus of central India," > Lokesh Chandra, the fresh-faced Nagpur municipal commissioner, said in > an interview. > > Any city chief might make such a claim. But in Nagpur, the blueprints > of the new airport suggest that here, at least, India has genuinely > broken with its old build-it-only-after-a-catastrophic-shortage > approach to infrastructure, adopting something closer to the Chinese > if-you-build-it-they-will-come philosophy. > > Today, the Nagpur airport is an airstrip. Visitors deplane and cross > the tarmac on foot to enter the terminal. It takes 30 seconds to > traverse the entire terminal from arrival gate to taxi stand. > > The blueprints foreshadow radical change. Nagpur got its first > international flight just 18 months ago, but it is already planning a > second runway long enough for jets like the Airbus A380 superjumbo. A > new terminal, already being built, will occupy 300,000 square meters, > or 3.2 million square feet, up from 3,000 square meters. It is > designed to accommodate 14 million passengers a year, a 20-fold > increase. Consultants from Changi Airport in Singapore have been hired > to spruce up the duty-free shopping. > > Next to the airport is a vast special economic zone, an enclave of > relative economic freedom designed to attract investors. Boeing, the > plane maker, is setting up a maintenance hub there, and in an > adjoining technology park Indian outsourcing vendors like Satyam > Computer Services and HCL Technologies have signed up for land. > > Together, the airport, cargo operation and park are expected to employ > more than 100,000 people. > > The project has made Nagpur's renaissance a fait accompli for many > investors, and their enthusiasm has bid up real estate prices. > > A decade ago, an acre, or 0.4 hectare, of land on the main street, > Wardha Road, sold for 100,000 rupees, or about $2,400 at current > exchange rates. Today it costs 20 to 40 times more, property > developers say. Even in less lucrative areas, prices have at least > doubled in five years. > > To some, it feels like a bubble. Alok Tiwari, executive editor of The > Hitawada, the local newspaper, said investors were anticipating a > boom, but that the underlying fuel of a boom - more jobs and buying > power - had yet to arrive. "We've got to create opportunity, not just > take land and build a mall there," he said. > > Some entrepreneurs accuse the government of building the special > economic zones at the expense of clearing the thicket of taxes and > regulations that hinders growth outside those rarified enclaves. > > "Government is not trying to help," said Vijaykumar, a developer who > goes by one name and whose family-run company built Nagpur's first > shopping mall. > > Yet the boom is real enough that Vijaykumar is investing heavily in > new office towers, houses and malls in the city. > > That may be enough. Nagpurians marvel at how, with every new mall, the > young discover wants they never had before. They work harder to afford > those wants. More malls are built to satisfy them. And after a time, > the cycle acquires its own momentum. > > Vishwas Chaknalwar, a builder, put it this way. "Once you wear Pyramid > clothes," he said, referring to a new mall here, "you cannot wear > anything else." > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman edelman@greenidea.info Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net From sunny.enie at gmail.com Fri May 11 23:40:10 2007 From: sunny.enie at gmail.com (Sunny) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 21:40:10 +0700 Subject: [sustran] Re: IHT news article: Ditching laissez-faire, India plans a city In-Reply-To: <464478AA.2060905@greenidea.info> References: <46447452.2090107@sutp.org> <464478AA.2060905@greenidea.info> Message-ID: <4644804A.1030603@gmail.com> A good story with some nice optimistic view of the future from the economist. The fact is 30% of the Indian population is below poverty line and i am not sure when they will even afford go to a multiplex which are rapidly being built. The article says there are many chances of leapfrogging but seeing the every day development the slums are still the slums and the poor are still the poor. As Todd said yes something is being built with a plan but whom is the plan benefiting. Just to share with you all today i read in the news paper that Air Deccan, a budget airline, boldly gave a statement that their airlines is not competing with other low cost airlines but is competing with the *trains*. The economist from ann arbour said that cities will reach their "saturation points", how can one determine the saturating point of a city. Is it not said that a good city would have high density cheers sunny Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory wrote: > The air cargo part by itself is a first-class ecological horror. There > is some talk of green spaces, PT and rainwater harvesting but it really > sounds like a giant bag of errors. Provides a nice contrast to the city > planned for Abu Dhabi: Carfree city for rich people vs. a city with a > few eco-touches for people whom you except to get rich, > shop-til-they-drop and drive cars. > > It is good that something is happening with a plan... but who is doing > the plan? Sorry, but without knowing more details it sounds like the > plans need to be torn up. > > T > > > Carlos F. Pardo wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Below is something to think about... does anyone know in greater >> detail how this city is being planned? The article mentions it will be >> a "metropolis", "hub of India", "malls will be built" etc. Mumford, >> Lynch and other authors should be further diffused among policymakers >> and planners (at least an abridged version!).* *Best regards, Carlos.* >> >> >> Ditching laissez-faire, India plans a city* >> By Anand Giridharadas >> Thursday, May 10, 2007 >> original source: http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/05/10/news/city.php >> >> *NAGPUR, India:* A year ago, this relatively small, forgettable city >> in the heart of India did not have an air-conditioned cinema. In the >> sweltering heat of May, the rich here were known to fly one hour to >> Mumbai, the financial hub of India, to see a movie. There they stocked >> up on Levi's jeans and Domino's pizza and other big-city treats that >> Nagpur failed to provide. >> >> But in a social experiment highly unusual for this most unplanned of >> countries, the Indian government has handpicked Nagpur to be fattened >> and primped into an international metropolis. >> >> Lush parks and smooth roads have been lain, and malls and multiplex >> cinemas have sprouted. A drastically renovated airport is to become >> the cargo hub of India, with a terminal that is 100 times larger than >> the existing one and is to handle at least 100 jets at a time instead >> of the current five. An ecofriendly mass-transit system is being >> planned to absorb an expected surge in road traffic, years before the >> average Nagpurian owns a car. The government is building a special >> economic zone with tax breaks and ready-to-use water, electricity and >> fiber optic cable, in the hope of attracting 100,000 technology jobs >> to a city long dominated by coal mining. >> >> Borrowing a chapter from China's playbook, the Indian government has >> begun working to make metropolises out of smaller, isolated cities, >> from Jaipur in the north to Vijayawada in the east to Mysore in the >> south, garnishing them with fresh infrastructure like international >> airports and financial grants linked to improvements in governance. >> >> "One hundred million people are moving to cities in the next 10 years, >> and it's important that these 100 million are absorbed into >> second-tier cities instead of showing up in Delhi or Mumbai," Montek >> Singh Ahluwalia, the Indian government's chief economic planner, said >> in a telephone conversation. >> >> Since its independence from Britain in 1947, the city-building >> philosophy of India has been, to put it tenderly, laissez-faire. >> Except for the recently developed technology hubs of Bangalore and >> Hyderabad, India has not added cosmopolitan, globally connected >> metropolises to its old ones: Calcutta, Delhi, Madras and Mumbai. As >> the Indian population tripled, the 1.1 billion people living on about >> 3 million square kilometers, or 1.1 million square miles, were left to >> scramble for space and opportunity in the few thousand square >> kilometers that contained well-paid jobs, 24-hour electricity and >> air-conditioned cinemas. >> >> To take just one measure of the shortage of developed metropolises, >> there are 65 million Indians for every airport with the >> three-kilometer, or two-mile, runway required by large jetliners, >> according to the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency. In the United >> States, the figure is 1.6 million people; in China, 25 million. >> >> Even as China beefed up second-tier cities like Dalian, Hangzhou and >> Tianjin and linked them to the world, India waited. And its cities >> began to break. In Mumbai, a majority of people live in slums, and a >> sewage river passes through just as the Seine streaks Paris. Delhi is >> chronically short of water and electricity. Calcutta teems with >> rickshaw drivers who break their bodies for a few cents a ride, >> because there are too many people vying for work in so tiny a place. >> >> No one knows if India has the stamina to build Nagpur to completion, >> and then build 20 more. But many experts regard metropolis-building as >> a silver bullet for India, slaying many problems with a single shot. >> >> "Much of India's future will undeniably be made in the second-tier >> cities," said Ashutosh Varshney, a specialist on Indian political >> economy at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor. The existing >> metropolises "will reach saturation points before long, or have >> already reached such points, and re-engineering their capacities for >> further growth will not be easy." >> >> New metropolises could erode poverty, easing the load on cramped, >> Dickensian cities and creating more hubs where rural migrants can go >> for jobs in textile mills or the retail sector. More international >> airports could help raise incomes for the 700 million rural Indians by >> making it easier for their produce to reach export markets. >> >> The Indian metropolis-building might also be an environmental boon. >> Upstart cities like Nagpur, on which millions have yet to descend, can >> grow on an ecofriendly model, with green spaces, mass transit and >> rainwater harvesting, in a way that old cities, with entrenched >> infrastructure, cannot. >> >> "There's a whole lot of leapfrogging possibilities when you're >> creating new capitals," said Ahluwalia, the government planner. >> >> New cities are also craved by industry, which is struggling to pay >> soaring land prices and wages in the traditional metropolises. >> >> Investors have long known this. What is new is the enthusiasm of the >> government, which has pledged in the last two years to spend $29 >> billion over seven years to upgrade 63 cities. Grants are given only >> to cities that tighten governance and enact business-friendly policies >> like scaling back rent control. More than half the funds are reserved >> for 56 cities with populations below four million. >> >> One fact separates Nagpur, with an estimated 2.5 million people, from >> the other 55: When the Indian government selected it as the air cargo >> hub for the country, it guaranteed skeptical investors that this >> obscure city would eventually rank with the busiest airports in the >> world, with all the attendant job creation and prosperity. Nagpur was >> chosen because it lies near the geographic center of India and is a >> crossroads of road and rail traffic. >> >> "It has the potential to be the growth nucleus of central India," >> Lokesh Chandra, the fresh-faced Nagpur municipal commissioner, said in >> an interview. >> >> Any city chief might make such a claim. But in Nagpur, the blueprints >> of the new airport suggest that here, at least, India has genuinely >> broken with its old build-it-only-after-a-catastrophic-shortage >> approach to infrastructure, adopting something closer to the Chinese >> if-you-build-it-they-will-come philosophy. >> >> Today, the Nagpur airport is an airstrip. Visitors deplane and cross >> the tarmac on foot to enter the terminal. It takes 30 seconds to >> traverse the entire terminal from arrival gate to taxi stand. >> >> The blueprints foreshadow radical change. Nagpur got its first >> international flight just 18 months ago, but it is already planning a >> second runway long enough for jets like the Airbus A380 superjumbo. A >> new terminal, already being built, will occupy 300,000 square meters, >> or 3.2 million square feet, up from 3,000 square meters. It is >> designed to accommodate 14 million passengers a year, a 20-fold >> increase. Consultants from Changi Airport in Singapore have been hired >> to spruce up the duty-free shopping. >> >> Next to the airport is a vast special economic zone, an enclave of >> relative economic freedom designed to attract investors. Boeing, the >> plane maker, is setting up a maintenance hub there, and in an >> adjoining technology park Indian outsourcing vendors like Satyam >> Computer Services and HCL Technologies have signed up for land. >> >> Together, the airport, cargo operation and park are expected to employ >> more than 100,000 people. >> >> The project has made Nagpur's renaissance a fait accompli for many >> investors, and their enthusiasm has bid up real estate prices. >> >> A decade ago, an acre, or 0.4 hectare, of land on the main street, >> Wardha Road, sold for 100,000 rupees, or about $2,400 at current >> exchange rates. Today it costs 20 to 40 times more, property >> developers say. Even in less lucrative areas, prices have at least >> doubled in five years. >> >> To some, it feels like a bubble. Alok Tiwari, executive editor of The >> Hitawada, the local newspaper, said investors were anticipating a >> boom, but that the underlying fuel of a boom - more jobs and buying >> power - had yet to arrive. "We've got to create opportunity, not just >> take land and build a mall there," he said. >> >> Some entrepreneurs accuse the government of building the special >> economic zones at the expense of clearing the thicket of taxes and >> regulations that hinders growth outside those rarified enclaves. >> >> "Government is not trying to help," said Vijaykumar, a developer who >> goes by one name and whose family-run company built Nagpur's first >> shopping mall. >> >> Yet the boom is real enough that Vijaykumar is investing heavily in >> new office towers, houses and malls in the city. >> >> That may be enough. Nagpurians marvel at how, with every new mall, the >> young discover wants they never had before. They work harder to afford >> those wants. More malls are built to satisfy them. And after a time, >> the cycle acquires its own momentum. >> >> Vishwas Chaknalwar, a builder, put it this way. "Once you wear Pyramid >> clothes," he said, referring to a new mall here, "you cannot wear >> anything else." >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. >> >> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. >> >> ================================================================ >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). >> > > > From sujit at vsnl.com Sat May 12 00:57:07 2007 From: sujit at vsnl.com (Sujit Patwardhan) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 21:27:07 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: IHT news article: Ditching laissez-faire, India plans a city In-Reply-To: <46447452.2090107@sutp.org> References: <46447452.2090107@sutp.org> Message-ID: <4cfd20aa0705110857n2413512dl891fe6932b05f77b@mail.gmail.com> A quick response to Carlos and Todd, These days the media (including newspapers) can't be trusted to report the truth. They pick and choose what they like and present it in the way they feel best (with an eye on their advertisers). This is the experience I had when I met International Herald Tribune's South Asia correspondent in Pune some months back. Despite telling her about the slow but welcome steps the city administration was taking to implement BRT, cycle tracks and improvement in Public Transport all she wrote about in her article was the pollution and congestion on the (inadequate) road infrastructure and the energy shortage for industry which was stifling the potential for booming growth for the city. There was no mention of the need for livability as an essential component, need to distinguish between the splurging malls (using excessive energy to illuminate expensive branded goods for the upward mobile urban Indians to lap up) and the genuine need for energy for sustainable development that will not damage nature. Perhaps the message was:- --India and especially Pune needs massive infrastructure improvement -- which is understood to mean anything depending on who you happen to be --the highway builders, flyover construction companies, the auto manufacturing lobby, the common citizen having to commute without an efficient public transport system? They all see "infrastructure" differently. So too this article on Nagpur, which has been in the news for the dashing bureaucrat who went ahead and build BIG broad roads and fly-overs all over the city. The huge International Airport with cargo facilities is also something we have been reading about. The positive thing is the way the whole airport and cargo complex is being developed in partnerships with the farmers whose lands will be taken away. Instead of the old route where lands were acquired by the Government for "public purpose" and promptly gifted away to big industry who would make huge profits in so called "development schemes" like Special Economic Zones, Export Manufacturing Zones, Industrial Zones etc. The Nagpur Airport Cargo Complex will be developed with old landowners (farmers) as "partners". I'm trying to get more details from a friend associated with land use planning for this project. -- Sujit Sujit Patwardhan Parisar/PTTF Pune, India On 5/11/07, Carlos F. Pardo wrote: > > Hi, > > Below is something to think about... does anyone know in greater detail > how this city is being planned? The article mentions it will be a > "metropolis", "hub of India", "malls will be built" etc. Mumford, Lynch and > other authors should be further diffused among policymakers and planners (at > least an abridged version!).* *Best regards, Carlos.* > > > Ditching laissez-faire, India plans a city* > By Anand Giridharadas > Thursday, May 10, 2007 > original source: http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/05/10/news/city.php > > *NAGPUR, India:* A year ago, this relatively small, forgettable city in > the heart of India did not have an air-conditioned cinema. In the sweltering > heat of May, the rich here were known to fly one hour to Mumbai, the > financial hub of India, to see a movie. There they stocked up on Levi's > jeans and Domino's pizza and other big-city treats that Nagpur failed to > provide. > > But in a social experiment highly unusual for this most unplanned of > countries, the Indian government has handpicked Nagpur to be fattened and > primped into an international metropolis. > > Lush parks and smooth roads have been lain, and malls and multiplex > cinemas have sprouted. A drastically renovated airport is to become the > cargo hub of India, with a terminal that is 100 times larger than the > existing one and is to handle at least 100 jets at a time instead of the > current five. An ecofriendly mass-transit system is being planned to absorb > an expected surge in road traffic, years before the average Nagpurian owns a > car. The government is building a special economic zone with tax breaks and > ready-to-use water, electricity and fiber optic cable, in the hope of > attracting 100,000 technology jobs to a city long dominated by coal mining. > > Borrowing a chapter from China's playbook, the Indian government has begun > working to make metropolises out of smaller, isolated cities, from Jaipur in > the north to Vijayawada in the east to Mysore in the south, garnishing them > with fresh infrastructure like international airports and financial grants > linked to improvements in governance. > > "One hundred million people are moving to cities in the next 10 years, and > it's important that these 100 million are absorbed into second-tier cities > instead of showing up in Delhi or Mumbai," Montek Singh Ahluwalia, the > Indian government's chief economic planner, said in a telephone > conversation. > > Since its independence from Britain in 1947, the city-building philosophy > of India has been, to put it tenderly, laissez-faire. Except for the > recently developed technology hubs of Bangalore and Hyderabad, India has not > added cosmopolitan, globally connected metropolises to its old ones: > Calcutta, Delhi, Madras and Mumbai. As the Indian population tripled, the > 1.1 billion people living on about 3 million square kilometers, or 1.1million square miles, were left to scramble for space and opportunity in the > few thousand square kilometers that contained well-paid jobs, 24-hour > electricity and air-conditioned cinemas. > > To take just one measure of the shortage of developed metropolises, there > are 65 million Indians for every airport with the three-kilometer, or > two-mile, runway required by large jetliners, according to the U.S. > Central Intelligence Agency. In the United States, the figure is 1.6million people; in China, 25 million. > > Even as China beefed up second-tier cities like Dalian, Hangzhou and > Tianjin and linked them to the world, India waited. And its cities began to > break. In Mumbai, a majority of people live in slums, and a sewage river > passes through just as the Seine streaks Paris. Delhi is chronically short > of water and electricity. Calcutta teems with rickshaw drivers who break > their bodies for a few cents a ride, because there are too many people vying > for work in so tiny a place. > > No one knows if India has the stamina to build Nagpur to completion, and > then build 20 more. But many experts regard metropolis-building as a silver > bullet for India, slaying many problems with a single shot. > > "Much of India's future will undeniably be made in the second-tier > cities," said Ashutosh Varshney, a specialist on Indian political economy at > the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor. The existing metropolises "will > reach saturation points before long, or have already reached such points, > and re-engineering their capacities for further growth will not be easy." > > New metropolises could erode poverty, easing the load on cramped, > Dickensian cities and creating more hubs where rural migrants can go for > jobs in textile mills or the retail sector. More international airports > could help raise incomes for the 700 million rural Indians by making it > easier for their produce to reach export markets. > > The Indian metropolis-building might also be an environmental boon. > Upstart cities like Nagpur, on which millions have yet to descend, can grow > on an ecofriendly model, with green spaces, mass transit and rainwater > harvesting, in a way that old cities, with entrenched infrastructure, > cannot. > > "There's a whole lot of leapfrogging possibilities when you're creating > new capitals," said Ahluwalia, the government planner. > > New cities are also craved by industry, which is struggling to pay soaring > land prices and wages in the traditional metropolises. > > Investors have long known this. What is new is the enthusiasm of the > government, which has pledged in the last two years to spend $29 billion > over seven years to upgrade 63 cities. Grants are given only to cities that > tighten governance and enact business-friendly policies like scaling back > rent control. More than half the funds are reserved for 56 cities with > populations below four million. > > One fact separates Nagpur, with an estimated 2.5 million people, from the > other 55: When the Indian government selected it as the air cargo hub for > the country, it guaranteed skeptical investors that this obscure city would > eventually rank with the busiest airports in the world, with all the > attendant job creation and prosperity. Nagpur was chosen because it lies > near the geographic center of India and is a crossroads of road and rail > traffic. > > "It has the potential to be the growth nucleus of central India," Lokesh > Chandra, the fresh-faced Nagpur municipal commissioner, said in an > interview. > > Any city chief might make such a claim. But in Nagpur, the blueprints of > the new airport suggest that here, at least, India has genuinely broken with > its old build-it-only-after-a-catastrophic-shortage approach to > infrastructure, adopting something closer to the Chinese > if-you-build-it-they-will-come philosophy. > > Today, the Nagpur airport is an airstrip. Visitors deplane and cross the > tarmac on foot to enter the terminal. It takes 30 seconds to traverse the > entire terminal from arrival gate to taxi stand. > > The blueprints foreshadow radical change. Nagpur got its first > international flight just 18 months ago, but it is already planning a second > runway long enough for jets like the Airbus A380 superjumbo. A new terminal, > already being built, will occupy 300,000 square meters, or 3.2 million > square feet, up from 3,000 square meters. It is designed to accommodate 14 > million passengers a year, a 20-fold increase. Consultants from Changi > Airport in Singapore have been hired to spruce up the duty-free shopping. > > Next to the airport is a vast special economic zone, an enclave of > relative economic freedom designed to attract investors. Boeing, the plane > maker, is setting up a maintenance hub there, and in an adjoining technology > park Indian outsourcing vendors like Satyam Computer Services and HCL > Technologies have signed up for land. > > Together, the airport, cargo operation and park are expected to employ > more than 100,000 people. > > The project has made Nagpur's renaissance a fait accompli for many > investors, and their enthusiasm has bid up real estate prices. > > A decade ago, an acre, or 0.4 hectare, of land on the main street, Wardha > Road, sold for 100,000 rupees, or about $2,400 at current exchange rates. > Today it costs 20 to 40 times more, property developers say. Even in less > lucrative areas, prices have at least doubled in five years. > > To some, it feels like a bubble. Alok Tiwari, executive editor of The > Hitawada, the local newspaper, said investors were anticipating a boom, but > that the underlying fuel of a boom - more jobs and buying power - had yet to > arrive. "We've got to create opportunity, not just take land and build a > mall there," he said. > > Some entrepreneurs accuse the government of building the special economic > zones at the expense of clearing the thicket of taxes and regulations that > hinders growth outside those rarified enclaves. > > "Government is not trying to help," said Vijaykumar, a developer who goes > by one name and whose family-run company built Nagpur's first shopping mall. > > Yet the boom is real enough that Vijaykumar is investing heavily in new > office towers, houses and malls in the city. > > That may be enough. Nagpurians marvel at how, with every new mall, the > young discover wants they never had before. They work harder to afford those > wants. More malls are built to satisfy them. And after a time, the cycle > acquires its own momentum. > > Vishwas Chaknalwar, a builder, put it this way. "Once you wear Pyramid > clothes," he said, referring to a new mall here, "you cannot wear anything > else." > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to > join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The > yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the > real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you > can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > > -- ------------------------------------------------------ Sujit Patwardhan sujit@vsnl.com sujitjp@gmail.com "Yamuna", ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007 India Tel: 25537955 ----------------------------------------------------- Hon. Secretary: Parisar www.parisar.org ------------------------------------------------------ Founder Member: PTTF (Pune Traffic & Transportation Forum) www.pttf.net ------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070511/414b4e4d/attachment.html From sujit at vsnl.com Sat May 12 01:07:02 2007 From: sujit at vsnl.com (Sujit Patwardhan) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 21:37:02 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Congestion tax in metros? In-Reply-To: <4cfd20aa0705110903n63fa98e3te6d63e342c51ad6c@mail.gmail.com> References: <4cfd20aa0705110903n63fa98e3te6d63e342c51ad6c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4cfd20aa0705110907i6631246i8a0677cca17c2698@mail.gmail.com> 11 May 2007 Forwarded by my colleague Mr Ravi Bhagwat... Knowing how fickle our politicians are, it may take months for this to happen but at least they are saying the right things....which I must admit is music to our ears... :-) -- Sujit Sujit Patwardhan Parisar/PTTF Pune, India *Pay more to drive around Colaba* R a j a t G u h a & M K Ve n u NEW DELHI rajat.guha@timesgroup.com FORGET Shanghai for a moment. Mumbai may soon resemble London when it comes to traffic, and more importantly, congestion charges. The government has proposed that states should levy a 'core area charge' for mega cities to reduce traffic congestion. If implemented, you may have to pay a special levy to drive into Colaba in South Mumbai, or Connaught Circus, the heart of the Indian capital. And that's not all. You may have to pay more for parking your car at such premium locations. Delhi and some other states are considering this proposal in order to decongest several key cities, while Mumbai and Bangalore have also been asked to follow the same model. Already, some European cities, including London, are levying decongestion charges for driving into the heart of the city. The government plans to link this proposal to the Urban Renewal Mission for infrastructure funding. Some key points in major metropolitan cities like Connaught Place in Delhi, MB Road in Bangalore, and Colaba and Andheri in Mumbai have been facing chaotic traffic. The Delhi government is planning to substantially increase the parking fee and entrance charge in such core areas to decongest them. The idea is to encourage commuters to use shuttle services from nearby areas. A Delhi government official said the matter would be soon discussed in a Cabinet meeting. "In other parts of the capital, public land has been used by malls and shopping complexes for parking facilities. They should be taxed for using state-owned land," he said. The urban development ministry would soon call a meeting with other states to discuss the proposal. "The proposal would form part of the National Urban Transport Policy after it is reviewed next month. This would be part of the state tax. States would be encouraged to undertake such levy in order to strengthen their revenue base. Taxing every second car in a same household would also be incorporated in the review," an official said. ------------------------------------------------------ Sujit Patwardhan sujit@vsnl.com sujitjp@gmail.com "Yamuna", ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007 India Tel: 25537955 ----------------------------------------------------- Hon. Secretary: Parisar www.parisar.org ------------------------------------------------------ Founder Member: PTTF (Pune Traffic & Transportation Forum) www.pttf.net ------------------------------------------------------ -- ------------------------------------------------------ Sujit Patwardhan sujit@vsnl.com sujitjp@gmail.com "Yamuna", ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007 India Tel: 25537955 ----------------------------------------------------- Hon. Secretary: Parisar www.parisar.org ------------------------------------------------------ Founder Member: PTTF (Pune Traffic & Transportation Forum) www.pttf.net ------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070511/8bd3230b/attachment.html From Lew.Fulton at unep.org Thu May 10 21:31:51 2007 From: Lew.Fulton at unep.org (Lew Fulton) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 15:31:51 +0300 Subject: [sustran] UN "ambassador" for public transport? In-Reply-To: <20070510121910.29910.qmail@mailbox.gr> Message-ID: Hello all, A UN colleague of mine is interested in exploring finding someone with star power who is (or could logically be) an advocate for public transport and might be interested in becoming a "UN Ambassador" on the topic. Any suggestions? Thanks, Lew Lew Fulton Program Officer, Sustainable Transport Division of GEF Coordination UN Environment Programme PO Box 30552-00100, Nairobi, Kenya tel: +254 20 762 3257 (From Europe and N.America, you can dial via Italy, often a better connection: +39 0831 24 3000, wait for voice then dial 124 3257) fax: +254 20 762 4041/42 lew.fulton@unep.org www.unep.org/gef From schipper at wri.org Mon May 14 01:14:34 2007 From: schipper at wri.org (Lee Schipper) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 12:14:34 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: UN "ambassador" for public transport? In-Reply-To: References: <20070510121910.29910.qmail@mailbox.gr> Message-ID: <4647012A0200003800006A88@HERMES.wri.org> Enrique Penalosa? >>> Lew Fulton 5/10/2007 8:31:51 AM >>> Hello all, A UN colleague of mine is interested in exploring finding someone with star power who is (or could logically be) an advocate for public transport and might be interested in becoming a "UN Ambassador" on the topic. Any suggestions? Thanks, Lew Lew Fulton Program Officer, Sustainable Transport Division of GEF Coordination UN Environment Programme PO Box 30552-00100, Nairobi, Kenya tel: +254 20 762 3257 (From Europe and N.America, you can dial via Italy, often a better connection: +39 0831 24 3000, wait for voice then dial 124 3257) fax: +254 20 762 4041/42 lew.fulton@unep.org www.unep.org/gef -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From edelman at greenidea.info Mon May 14 01:27:31 2007 From: edelman at greenidea.info (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 18:27:31 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Re: UN "ambassador" for public transport? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46473C73.5070106@greenidea.info> Hi, Nice idea but I think if it is not someone who actually takes public transport regularly - and can prove it - it will be counter-productive. There might be some stars of the cultural world in New York City who do the subway and the taxi... ask your colleagues on First Avenue for some helpful hints. As examples, the actress Drew Barrymore is the UN Goodwill Ambassador for the World Food Programme... Angelina Jolie is the Ambassador for the UN High Commissioner for Refugees... Brad Pitt and George Clooney are also Goodwill Ambassadors, though not sure for which UN agency... ...aside from the Hollywood people there is this: *** Penalosa was suggested but everyone else seems to be culture people - I suppose because they can be or seem more neutral. Clooney, on the other hand is rather Left on some things... - T Lew Fulton wrote: > Hello all, > > A UN colleague of mine is interested in exploring finding someone with star > power who is (or could logically be) an advocate for public transport and > might be interested in becoming a "UN Ambassador" on the topic. > > Any suggestions? > > Thanks, > > Lew > > Lew Fulton > Program Officer, Sustainable Transport > Division of GEF Coordination > UN Environment Programme > PO Box 30552-00100, Nairobi, Kenya > tel: +254 20 762 3257 (From Europe and N.America, you can dial via Italy, > often a better connection: +39 0831 24 3000, wait for voice then dial 124 > 3257) > fax: +254 20 762 4041/42 > lew.fulton@unep.org > www.unep.org/gef > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). > > -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman edelman@greenidea.info Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net From schipper at wri.org Mon May 14 01:34:35 2007 From: schipper at wri.org (Lee Schipper) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 12:34:35 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: UN "ambassador" for public transport? In-Reply-To: <46473C73.5070106@greenidea.info> References: <46473C73.5070106@greenidea.info> Message-ID: <464705DB0200003800006A90@HERMES.wri.org> Bruntland was pressed into service recently, I think for Climate. The time I met her in Norway at a meeting her Volvo was kept outside with the engine running the whole time! Lee Schipper Director of Research EMBARQ, the WRI Center for Sustainable Transport 10 G St. NE Washington DC, 20002 +1202 729 7735 FAX +1202 7297775 www.embarq.wri.org >>> "Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory" 5/13/2007 12:27:31 PM >>> Hi, Nice idea but I think if it is not someone who actually takes public transport regularly - and can prove it - it will be counter-productive. There might be some stars of the cultural world in New York City who do the subway and the taxi... ask your colleagues on First Avenue for some helpful hints. As examples, the actress Drew Barrymore is the UN Goodwill Ambassador for the World Food Programme... Angelina Jolie is the Ambassador for the UN High Commissioner for Refugees... Brad Pitt and George Clooney are also Goodwill Ambassadors, though not sure for which UN agency... ...aside from the Hollywood people there is this: *** Penalosa was suggested but everyone else seems to be culture people - I suppose because they can be or seem more neutral. Clooney, on the other hand is rather Left on some things... - T Lew Fulton wrote: > Hello all, > > A UN colleague of mine is interested in exploring finding someone with star > power who is (or could logically be) an advocate for public transport and > might be interested in becoming a "UN Ambassador" on the topic. > > Any suggestions? > > Thanks, > > Lew > > Lew Fulton > Program Officer, Sustainable Transport > Division of GEF Coordination > UN Environment Programme > PO Box 30552-00100, Nairobi, Kenya > tel: +254 20 762 3257 (From Europe and N.America, you can dial via Italy, > often a better connection: +39 0831 24 3000, wait for voice then dial 124 > 3257) > fax: +254 20 762 4041/42 > lew.fulton@unep.org > www.unep.org/gef > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). > > -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman edelman@greenidea.info Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Mon May 14 02:01:07 2007 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (Eric Britton) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 19:01:07 +0200 Subject: [sustran] UN "ambassador" for public transport? Message-ID: This is a splendid idea Lew, Lee and all, with one possible useful adjustment: The problem is that turgid phrase "public transport". I am quite sure that we need to find a title that reaches well beyond those confines. The phrase "public transport" has been around for a long time, and it invariably conjures up visions of buses and rail cars. Kind of an 'old left' vision of what it is needed to "fix" society, a variant of the ABC (Anything But Cars) syndrome. It also lacks sex appeal, and if you want proof of that all you have to do is check out what the various groups around the world that have 'public transport' in their title focus on, do, and how they do it. Altogether far from sufficient from dealing with the mobility and related life quality problem of people living and working (and trying to breath) in Global South cities. Of course those of you who know me are likely to guess that I will now propose "New Mobility", and while it really would do the job there may well be a problem with recognition. We do want a moniker that you don't have to spend allday explaining to people. And as to "Sustainable Transport", well I am afraid that we have all seen over the years that it has existed as a word that it's a very hard concept to get across. Recognizably is important here too. So may I suggest that the organizers of this great idea, and maybe some of us as well, might do well to ponder a phrase that will do the job that needs to be done. Let me end with a story that elucidates a bit of all this. The other day over at another group on gender and transport (www.gatnet.net) in which I participate and which I much admire, one of the really very clever and good members of the group advanced in our discussions of just this, the idea that maybe since we were trying to sell a tough concept, we might want to consider calling it "fashionable transport". The arguments behind it were really interesting and once you had worked your way through them really close to bullet proof - but at the end of the day of course the adjective just doesn't do the necessary job. But it's good to keep thinking, and who better than all of us, eh?. Eric Britton On Behalf Of Lee Schipper Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 6:15 PM Enrique Penalosa? Lee Schipper Director of Research EMBARQ, the WRI Center for Sustainable Transport 10 G St. NE Washington DC, 20002 +1202 729 7735 FAX +1202 7297775 www.embarq.wri.org PS. Also to note: Bruntland was pressed into service recently, I think for Climate. The time I met her in Norway at a meeting her Volvo was kept outside with the engine running the whole time! On Behalf Of Lew Fulton Hello all, A UN colleague of mine is interested in exploring finding someone with star power who is (or could logically be) an advocate for public transport and might be interested in becoming a "UN Ambassador" on the topic. Any suggestions? Thanks, Lew Lew Fulton Program Officer, Sustainable Transport Division of GEF Coordination UN Environment Programme PO Box 30552-00100, Nairobi, Kenya tel: +254 20 762 3257 (From Europe and N. America, you can dial via Italy, often a better connection: +39 0831 24 3000, wait for voice then dial 124 3257) fax: +254 20 762 4041/42 lew.fulton@unep.org www.unep.org/gef From schipper at wri.org Mon May 14 02:03:55 2007 From: schipper at wri.org (Lee Schipper) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 13:03:55 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: UN "ambassador" for public transport? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46470CBB0200003800006A9A@HERMES.wri.org> I think Eric is right. The broader concept of sustainable trsnaport has to be implanted in this office, lest it become an excuse for building metros at $1000/Centimeter, so to speak. >>> "Eric Britton" 5/13/2007 1:01:07 PM >>> This is a splendid idea Lew, Lee and all, with one possible useful adjustment: The problem is that turgid phrase "public transport". I am quite sure that we need to find a title that reaches well beyond those confines. The phrase "public transport" has been around for a long time, and it invariably conjures up visions of buses and rail cars. Kind of an 'old left' vision of what it is needed to "fix" society, a variant of the ABC (Anything But Cars) syndrome. It also lacks sex appeal, and if you want proof of that all you have to do is check out what the various groups around the world that have 'public transport' in their title focus on, do, and how they do it. Altogether far from sufficient from dealing with the mobility and related life quality problem of people living and working (and trying to breath) in Global South cities. Of course those of you who know me are likely to guess that I will now propose "New Mobility", and while it really would do the job there may well be a problem with recognition. We do want a moniker that you don't have to spend allday explaining to people. And as to "Sustainable Transport", well I am afraid that we have all seen over the years that it has existed as a word that it's a very hard concept to get across. Recognizably is important here too. So may I suggest that the organizers of this great idea, and maybe some of us as well, might do well to ponder a phrase that will do the job that needs to be done. Let me end with a story that elucidates a bit of all this. The other day over at another group on gender and transport (www.gatnet.net) in which I participate and which I much admire, one of the really very clever and good members of the group advanced in our discussions of just this, the idea that maybe since we were trying to sell a tough concept, we might want to consider calling it "fashionable transport". The arguments behind it were really interesting and once you had worked your way through them really close to bullet proof - but at the end of the day of course the adjective just doesn't do the necessary job. But it's good to keep thinking, and who better than all of us, eh?. Eric Britton On Behalf Of Lee Schipper Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 6:15 PM Enrique Penalosa? Lee Schipper Director of Research EMBARQ, the WRI Center for Sustainable Transport 10 G St. NE Washington DC, 20002 +1202 729 7735 FAX +1202 7297775 www.embarq.wri.org PS. Also to note: Bruntland was pressed into service recently, I think for Climate. The time I met her in Norway at a meeting her Volvo was kept outside with the engine running the whole time! On Behalf Of Lew Fulton Hello all, A UN colleague of mine is interested in exploring finding someone with star power who is (or could logically be) an advocate for public transport and might be interested in becoming a "UN Ambassador" on the topic. Any suggestions? Thanks, Lew Lew Fulton Program Officer, Sustainable Transport Division of GEF Coordination UN Environment Programme PO Box 30552-00100, Nairobi, Kenya tel: +254 20 762 3257 (From Europe and N. America, you can dial via Italy, often a better connection: +39 0831 24 3000, wait for voice then dial 124 3257) fax: +254 20 762 4041/42 lew.fulton@unep.org www.unep.org/gef From edelman at greenidea.info Mon May 14 02:23:32 2007 From: edelman at greenidea.info (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 19:23:32 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Re: UN "ambassador" for public transport? In-Reply-To: <46470CBB0200003800006A9A@HERMES.wri.org> References: <46470CBB0200003800006A9A@HERMES.wri.org> Message-ID: <46474994.60709@greenidea.info> "UN Goodwill Ambassador for Carfree Cities" works for me, but I mostly would like to suggest that we do not invent a new term just because of this request, though it is a rather important one... - T Lee Schipper wrote: > I think Eric is right. The broader concept of sustainable trsnaport has to be implanted in this office, lest it become an excuse > for building metros at $1000/Centimeter, so to speak. > > >>>> "Eric Britton" 5/13/2007 1:01:07 PM >>> >>>> > This is a splendid idea Lew, Lee and all, with one possible useful > adjustment: > > The problem is that turgid phrase "public transport". I am quite sure that > we need to find a title that reaches well beyond those confines. > > The phrase "public transport" has been around for a long time, and it > invariably conjures up visions of buses and rail cars. Kind of an 'old left' > vision of what it is needed to "fix" society, a variant of the ABC (Anything > But Cars) syndrome. It also lacks sex appeal, and if you want proof of that > all you have to do is check out what the various groups around the world > that have 'public transport' in their title focus on, do, and how they do > it. Altogether far from sufficient from dealing with the mobility and > related life quality problem of people living and working (and trying to > breath) in Global South cities. > > Of course those of you who know me are likely to guess that I will now > propose "New Mobility", and while it really would do the job there may well > be a problem with recognition. We do want a moniker that you don't have to > spend allday explaining to people. And as to "Sustainable Transport", well I > am afraid that we have all seen over the years that it has existed as a word > that it's a very hard concept to get across. Recognizably is important here > too. > > So may I suggest that the organizers of this great idea, and maybe some of > us as well, might do well to ponder a phrase that will do the job that needs > to be done. > > Let me end with a story that elucidates a bit of all this. The other day > over at another group on gender and transport (www.gatnet.net) in which I > participate and which I much admire, one of the really very clever and good > members of the group advanced in our discussions of just this, the idea that > maybe since we were trying to sell a tough concept, we might want to > consider calling it "fashionable transport". The arguments behind it were > really interesting and once you had worked your way through them really > close to bullet proof - but at the end of the day of course the adjective > just doesn't do the necessary job. > > But it's good to keep thinking, and who better than all of us, eh?. > > Eric Britton > > > > > On Behalf Of Lee Schipper > Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 6:15 PM > > Enrique Penalosa? > > Lee Schipper > Director of Research > EMBARQ, the WRI Center > for Sustainable Transport > 10 G St. NE > Washington DC, 20002 > +1202 729 7735 > FAX +1202 7297775 > www.embarq.wri.org > > PS. Also to note: Bruntland was pressed into service recently, I think for > Climate. > The time I met her in Norway at a meeting her Volvo was kept outside > with the engine running the whole time! > > On Behalf Of Lew Fulton > > Hello all, > > A UN colleague of mine is interested in exploring finding someone with star > power who is (or could logically be) an advocate for public transport and > might be interested in becoming a "UN Ambassador" on the topic. > > Any suggestions? > > Thanks, > > Lew > > Lew Fulton > Program Officer, Sustainable Transport > Division of GEF Coordination > UN Environment Programme > PO Box 30552-00100, Nairobi, Kenya > tel: +254 20 762 3257 (From Europe and N. America, you can dial via Italy, > often a better connection: +39 0831 24 3000, wait for voice then dial 124 > 3257) > fax: +254 20 762 4041/42 > lew.fulton@unep.org > www.unep.org/gef > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). > > -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman edelman@greenidea.info Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net From pendakur at interchange.ubc.ca Mon May 14 03:25:51 2007 From: pendakur at interchange.ubc.ca (Pendakur) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 11:25:51 -0700 Subject: [sustran] Re: UN "ambassador" for public transport? In-Reply-To: <4647012A0200003800006A88@HERMES.wri.org> Message-ID: <20070513182606.B5DBF2DDFF@mx-list.jca.ne.jp> Absolutely, Enrique Penalosa. He is articulate, has professional and political experience in "making things happen" and to boot it, he is absolutely attention catching. Best wishes. Setty Dr. V. Setty Pendakur Professor Emeritus, University of BC Honorary Professor, China National Academy of Sciences; Director, ITDP (NY) & Secretary, ABE90-TRB President, Pacific Policy and Planning Associates 702- 1099 Marinaside Cresecent, Vancouver, BC Canada V6Z 2Z3 604-263-3576; Fax: 604-263-6493 -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+pendakur=interchange.ubc.ca@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+pendakur=interchange.ubc.ca@list.jca.apc.org ] On Behalf Of Lee Schipper Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 9:15 AM To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Subject: [sustran] Re: UN "ambassador" for public transport? Enrique Penalosa? >>> Lew Fulton 5/10/2007 8:31:51 AM >>> Hello all, A UN colleague of mine is interested in exploring finding someone with star power who is (or could logically be) an advocate for public transport and might be interested in becoming a "UN Ambassador" on the topic. Any suggestions? Thanks, Lew Lew Fulton Program Officer, Sustainable Transport Division of GEF Coordination UN Environment Programme PO Box 30552-00100, Nairobi, Kenya tel: +254 20 762 3257 (From Europe and N.America, you can dial via Italy, often a better connection: +39 0831 24 3000, wait for voice then dial 124 3257) fax: +254 20 762 4041/42 lew.fulton@unep.org www.unep.org/gef -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/803 - Release Date: 5/13/2007 12:17 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/803 - Release Date: 5/13/2007 12:17 PM From sujit at vsnl.com Mon May 14 03:37:52 2007 From: sujit at vsnl.com (Sujit Patwardhan) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 00:07:52 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: UN "ambassador" for public transport? In-Reply-To: <20070513182606.B5DBF2DDFF@mx-list.jca.ne.jp> References: <4647012A0200003800006A88@HERMES.wri.org> <20070513182606.B5DBF2DDFF@mx-list.jca.ne.jp> Message-ID: <4cfd20aa0705131137g4c7addcamc982090b80967c47@mail.gmail.com> Enrique Penalosa. Agree 100% with Dr Pendakur. -- Sujit On 5/13/07, Pendakur wrote: > > Absolutely, Enrique Penalosa. He is articulate, has professional and > political experience in "making things happen" and to boot it, he is > absolutely attention catching. > > Best wishes. > > Setty > Dr. V. Setty Pendakur > Professor Emeritus, University of BC > Honorary Professor, China National Academy of Sciences; > Director, ITDP (NY) & Secretary, ABE90-TRB > > President, Pacific Policy and Planning Associates > 702- 1099 Marinaside Cresecent, Vancouver, BC > Canada V6Z 2Z3 > 604-263-3576; Fax: 604-263-6493 > > -----Original Message----- > From: sustran-discuss-bounces+pendakur=interchange.ubc.ca@list.jca.apc.org > [mailto: > sustran-discuss-bounces+pendakur=interchange.ubc.ca@list.jca.apc.org > ] On Behalf Of Lee Schipper > Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 9:15 AM > To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport > Subject: [sustran] Re: UN "ambassador" for public transport? > > Enrique Penalosa? > > >>> Lew Fulton 5/10/2007 8:31:51 AM >>> > Hello all, > > A UN colleague of mine is interested in exploring finding someone with > star > power who is (or could logically be) an advocate for public transport and > might be interested in becoming a "UN Ambassador" on the topic. > > Any suggestions? > > Thanks, > > Lew > > Lew Fulton > Program Officer, Sustainable Transport > Division of GEF Coordination > UN Environment Programme > PO Box 30552-00100, Nairobi, Kenya > tel: +254 20 762 3257 (From Europe and N.America, you can dial via Italy, > often a better connection: +39 0831 24 3000, wait for voice then dial 124 > 3257) > fax: +254 20 762 4041/42 > lew.fulton@unep.org > www.unep.org/gef > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to > join > the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups > version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real > sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). > Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to > join > the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups > version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real > sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). > Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/803 - Release Date: 5/13/2007 > 12:17 PM > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/803 - Release Date: 5/13/2007 > 12:17 PM > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to > join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The > yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the > real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you > can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > -- ------------------------------------------------------ Sujit Patwardhan sujit@vsnl.com sujitjp@gmail.com "Yamuna", ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007 India Tel: 25537955 ----------------------------------------------------- Hon. Secretary: Parisar www.parisar.org ------------------------------------------------------ Founder Member: PTTF (Pune Traffic & Transportation Forum) www.pttf.net ------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070514/21651a83/attachment.html From edelman at greenidea.info Mon May 14 03:45:51 2007 From: edelman at greenidea.info (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 20:45:51 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Re: UN "ambassador" for public transport? In-Reply-To: <20070513182606.B5DBF2DDFF@mx-list.jca.ne.jp> References: <20070513182606.B5DBF2DDFF@mx-list.jca.ne.jp> Message-ID: <46475CDF.4020704@greenidea.info> Hi, Again, I think there is a reason many or perhaps all of these Goodwill Ambassadors are not current, former or future political figures. I am not hiding any bias against Penalosa and I wish that more politicians of all genders had his cajones, but he is perhaps too obvious a supporter of whatever we end up telling UNEP what we want to call "appropriate, desirable and sustainable transport solutions (ADSTS) for cities and regions which are designed to decrease the need for mobility (DDNM)". In regards to the oft-heard and generally reasonable complaint about underground metros costing the equivalent of one million years worth of GNPs of every developing country in the universe, don't you think we need someone who is powerful enough to tell various parties that he or she thinks they might want to consider shifting some dineros, shekels, sea dollars or salt wafers from their military spending - usually way, way-ay-ay more absurd than an inappropriate metro - to ADSTS and DDNM? - T Pendakur wrote: > Absolutely, Enrique Penalosa. He is articulate, has professional and > political experience in "making things happen" and to boot it, he is > absolutely attention catching. > > Best wishes. > > Setty > Dr. V. Setty Pendakur > Professor Emeritus, University of BC > Honorary Professor, China National Academy of Sciences; > Director, ITDP (NY) & Secretary, ABE90-TRB > > President, Pacific Policy and Planning Associates > 702- 1099 Marinaside Cresecent, Vancouver, BC > Canada V6Z 2Z3 > 604-263-3576; Fax: 604-263-6493 > > -----Original Message----- > From: sustran-discuss-bounces+pendakur=interchange.ubc.ca@list.jca.apc.org > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+pendakur=interchange.ubc.ca@list.jca.apc.org > ] On Behalf Of Lee Schipper > Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 9:15 AM > To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport > Subject: [sustran] Re: UN "ambassador" for public transport? > > Enrique Penalosa? > > >>>> Lew Fulton 5/10/2007 8:31:51 AM >>> >>>> > Hello all, > > A UN colleague of mine is interested in exploring finding someone with star > power who is (or could logically be) an advocate for public transport and > might be interested in becoming a "UN Ambassador" on the topic. > > Any suggestions? > > Thanks, > > Lew > > Lew Fulton > Program Officer, Sustainable Transport > Division of GEF Coordination > UN Environment Programme > PO Box 30552-00100, Nairobi, Kenya > tel: +254 20 762 3257 (From Europe and N.America, you can dial via Italy, > often a better connection: +39 0831 24 3000, wait for voice then dial 124 > 3257) > fax: +254 20 762 4041/42 > lew.fulton@unep.org > www.unep.org/gef > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join > the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups > version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real > sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). > Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join > the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups > version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real > sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). > Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/803 - Release Date: 5/13/2007 > 12:17 PM > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/803 - Release Date: 5/13/2007 > 12:17 PM > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). > > -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman edelman@greenidea.info Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net From carlos.pardo at sutp.org Mon May 14 10:09:22 2007 From: carlos.pardo at sutp.org (Carlos F. Pardo) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 20:09:22 -0500 Subject: [sustran] Re: UN "ambassador" for public transport? In-Reply-To: <20070513182606.B5DBF2DDFF@mx-list.jca.ne.jp> References: <20070513182606.B5DBF2DDFF@mx-list.jca.ne.jp> Message-ID: <4647B6C2.50201@sutp.org> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070513/231188e6/attachment.html From edelman at greenidea.info Mon May 14 17:14:23 2007 From: edelman at greenidea.info (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 10:14:23 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Re: UN "ambassador" for public transport? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46481A5F.6040808@greenidea.info> Hi, How about if they are just stars on one continent or for example North America and Europe... or something like France and Francophone countries in Africa? They might make the search easier... T Lew Fulton wrote: > I think Enrique Penalosa is perfect in the sense that he is the real deal, > is a visionary, is inspiring and is fluent in key languages. But he's not > widely known outside of transport and urban sustainability circles. If we > could have him star in a major hollywood film, that would do the trick, > though I tend to doubt that's on his agenda, or theirs... > > Probably the key is to get in touch with some big agents and see what stars > take transit (obviously they don't live in LA) and would be interested. > I'll look into our ambassador system doing this, but in the mean time, if > anyone finds out about any stars who have even once in their life been on a > bus, let me know :-). > > Lew > > > > > "Todd Edelman, > Green Idea > Factory" To > a.info> Transport" > Sent by: > sustran-discuss-b cc > ounces+lew.fulton > =unep.org@list.jc Subject > a.apc.org [sustran] Re: UN "ambassador" for > public transport? > > 13/05/2007 21:45 > > > Please respond to > edelman@greenidea > .info; Please > respond to > "Global 'South' > Sustainable > Transport" > list.jca.apc.org> > > > > > > > Hi, > > Again, I think there is a reason many or perhaps all of these Goodwill > Ambassadors are not current, former or future political figures. I am > not hiding any bias against Penalosa and I wish that more politicians of > all genders had his cajones, but he is perhaps too obvious a supporter > of whatever we end up telling UNEP what we want to call "appropriate, > desirable and sustainable transport solutions (ADSTS) for cities and > regions which are designed to decrease the need for mobility (DDNM)". > > In regards to the oft-heard and generally reasonable complaint about > underground metros costing the equivalent of one million years worth of > GNPs of every developing country in the universe, don't you think we > need someone who is powerful enough to tell various parties that he or > she thinks they might want to consider shifting some dineros, shekels, > sea dollars or salt wafers from their military spending - usually way, > way-ay-ay more absurd than an inappropriate metro - to ADSTS and DDNM? > > - T > > Pendakur wrote: > >> Absolutely, Enrique Penalosa. He is articulate, has professional and >> political experience in "making things happen" and to boot it, he is >> absolutely attention catching. >> >> Best wishes. >> >> Setty >> Dr. V. Setty Pendakur >> Professor Emeritus, University of BC >> Honorary Professor, China National Academy of Sciences; >> Director, ITDP (NY) & Secretary, ABE90-TRB >> >> President, Pacific Policy and Planning Associates >> 702- 1099 Marinaside Cresecent, Vancouver, BC >> Canada V6Z 2Z3 >> 604-263-3576; Fax: 604-263-6493 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: >> > sustran-discuss-bounces+pendakur=interchange.ubc.ca@list.jca.apc.org > > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+pendakur=interchange.ubc.ca@list.jca.apc.org > > >> ] On Behalf Of Lee Schipper >> Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 9:15 AM >> To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport >> Subject: [sustran] Re: UN "ambassador" for public transport? >> >> Enrique Penalosa? >> >> >> >>>>> Lew Fulton 5/10/2007 8:31:51 AM >>> >>>>> >>>>> >> Hello all, >> >> A UN colleague of mine is interested in exploring finding someone with >> > star > >> power who is (or could logically be) an advocate for public transport and >> might be interested in becoming a "UN Ambassador" on the topic. >> >> Any suggestions? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Lew >> >> Lew Fulton >> Program Officer, Sustainable Transport >> Division of GEF Coordination >> UN Environment Programme >> PO Box 30552-00100, Nairobi, Kenya >> tel: +254 20 762 3257 (From Europe and N.America, you can dial via Italy, >> often a better connection: +39 0831 24 3000, wait for voice then dial 124 >> 3257) >> fax: +254 20 762 4041/42 >> lew.fulton@unep.org >> www.unep.org/gef >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via >> YAHOOGROUPS. >> >> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to >> > join > >> the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups >> version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real >> sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you >> > can). > >> Apologies for the confusing arrangement. >> >> ================================================================ >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries >> (the 'Global South'). >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via >> YAHOOGROUPS. >> >> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to >> > join > >> the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups >> version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real >> sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you >> > can). > >> Apologies for the confusing arrangement. >> >> ================================================================ >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries >> (the 'Global South'). >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/803 - Release Date: 5/13/2007 >> 12:17 PM >> >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/803 - Release Date: 5/13/2007 >> 12:17 PM >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via >> > YAHOOGROUPS. > >> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to >> > join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The > yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the > real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you > can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > >> ================================================================ >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > >> > > > -- > -------------------------------------------- > > Todd Edelman > Director > Green Idea Factory > > Korunn? 72 > CZ-10100 Praha 10 > Czech Republic > > ++420 605 915 970 > ++420 222 517 832 > Skype: toddedelman > > edelman@greenidea.info > > Green Idea Factory, > a member of World Carfree Network > www.worldcarfree.net > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to > join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The > yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the > real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you > can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > > > > -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman edelman@greenidea.info Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Mon May 14 17:19:09 2007 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (Eric Britton) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 10:19:09 +0200 Subject: [sustran] UN Ambassador for Transport in Cities In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Here are my best thoughts on this Lew. 1. Program title: I would say "Transport in Cities". On the grounds that everyone knows immediately what that means, so you don't have to explain as is inevitably the case with sustainable transport (which is clear to those (few) who already know about it, but that's not our there in the real world such a big number.) 2. "Job description": And yes to you all, I think that EP would be terrific for this, but rather than prematurely narrow on one person no matter how qualified for the job (who knows for sure what he is going to think about this and what his schedule is?) I would like to share a few words with you all as to what I think is needed to do this job, and what not. For example: a. Deep experience and real world track record: b. Strong, striking individual personality: (hardly needs more here.) c. Pattern breaker. d. Talk the talk: I don't see this as something for which any media person would have anything nearly like the background or credibility to achieve anything really important. (Not only that each time I run into one of these deals I can always visualize the guy's agent licking their lips, all gussied up with a heavy dose of hypocrisy). e. Walk the walk: And yes, they should also walk the walk in their daily lives - without which we really have an empty vessel. And this in a too empty world of ephemeral and essentially meaningless images. f. Capture the attention and imagination of the public: And then hold it! And hold it and hold it! Otherwise the job will not get done. They must be able to do this, otherwise it is just one more brain-dead media flutter. 3. Rolling ambassadorship? a. What about a fixed term in "office". Say one year (or two?), but with all the support needed to make this work. (I would suggest that unless the Sec Gen buys into this with enthusiasm, it will simply not get the backing it needs to make it work. b. After which our guy stays on board but in some kind of emeritus position: We really would not like to lose the momentum once we have it, and the best way to do that is to forget an otherwise familiar face. Our guys should be signing on for life. c. Great mayors: Luckily for us we have some great mayors out there including people who really can fill this bill. (And probably more of them than you might know unless you really get around a lot.) And while not all of them are 6"5" tall cyclists and have that great Latin accent, we have a number of very appealing candidates for this job. Just to pick out one who comes immediately to mind, when Ken Livingstone, a non-driving straight-talking public transport user for life. Looking for more. Well, just look around and fine mayors who bike to work every day, etc. To sum it up. I think this is a great idea . Now what can we do, what can I do, to make it happen? Eric Britton From edelman at greenidea.info Mon May 14 18:42:40 2007 From: edelman at greenidea.info (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 11:42:40 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Re: UN Ambassador for Transport in Cities In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46482F10.1000306@greenidea.info> Hi, Just got this excellent suggestion from someone in San Francisco about someone in New York City: "Moby has a tea shop/bookstore in Little Italy called Teany (Tea NY, get it), & I know he bike-commutes there, because I've seen him. He might be someone you could contact, too." So maybe a transport in cities ambassador, or more specifically a cycling for urban transport ambassador? - T Eric Britton wrote: > Here are my best thoughts on this Lew. > > 1. Program title: I would say "Transport in Cities". On the grounds that > everyone knows immediately what that means, so you don't have to explain as > is inevitably the case with sustainable transport (which is clear to those > (few) who already know about it, but that's not our there in the real world > such a big number.) > > 2. "Job description": And yes to you all, I think that EP would be terrific > for this, but rather than prematurely narrow on one person no matter how > qualified for the job (who knows for sure what he is going to think about > this and what his schedule is?) I would like to share a few words with you > all as to what I think is needed to do this job, and what not. For example: > > a. Deep experience and real world track record: > > b. Strong, striking individual personality: (hardly needs more here.) > > c. Pattern breaker. > > d. Talk the talk: I don't see this as something for which any media person > would have anything nearly like the background or credibility to achieve > anything really important. (Not only that each time I run into one of these > deals I can always visualize the guy's agent licking their lips, all gussied > up with a heavy dose of hypocrisy). > > e. Walk the walk: And yes, they should also walk the walk in their daily > lives - without which we really have an empty vessel. And this in a too > empty world of ephemeral and essentially meaningless images. > > f. Capture the attention and imagination of the public: And then hold it! > And hold it and hold it! Otherwise the job will not get done. They must be > able to do this, otherwise it is just one more brain-dead media flutter. > > 3. Rolling ambassadorship? > > a. What about a fixed term in "office". Say one year (or two?), but with all > the support needed to make this work. (I would suggest that unless the Sec > Gen buys into this with enthusiasm, it will simply not get the backing it > needs to make it work. > > b. After which our guy stays on board but in some kind of emeritus position: > We really would not like to lose the momentum once we have it, and the best > way to do that is to forget an otherwise familiar face. Our guys should be > signing on for life. > > c. Great mayors: Luckily for us we have some great mayors out there > including people who really can fill this bill. (And probably more of them > than you might know unless you really get around a lot.) And while not all > of them are 6"5" tall cyclists and have that great Latin accent, we have a > number of very appealing candidates for this job. Just to pick out one who > comes immediately to mind, when Ken Livingstone, a non-driving > straight-talking public transport user for life. Looking for more. Well, > just look around and fine mayors who bike to work every day, etc. > > To sum it up. I think this is a great idea . Now what can we do, what can I > do, to make it happen? > > Eric Britton > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). > > -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman edelman@greenidea.info Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Tue May 15 01:20:48 2007 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (Eric Britton) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 18:20:48 +0200 Subject: [sustran] UN Ambassador for Transport in Cities In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Numerous nominations continue to float in. Al Gore of course, but could he pass a CO2 test? Someone else asked why we were only talking about males thus far. Good point. Then one very naughty colleague has proposed Paris Hilton. Of course as a soon non-driver . . . (Letter unsigned) From SCHIPPER at wri.org Tue May 15 01:28:35 2007 From: SCHIPPER at wri.org (Lee Schipper) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 12:28:35 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: UN Ambassador for Transport in Cities In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <464855F3.D997.0038.0@wri.org> None of us who travel in work could pass a CO2 test - Eric did the first real teleconference I know of (in March 1996 sent to Vancouver) and saved fuel in a meeting where Laurie Michaelis calculated the meeting cost some few hundred giga joules (at 79 kg CO2/gigajoule) to get the rest of us there. So I think Gore might actually be the person. His own house or travel doesn't disqualify him. And we don't expect he'll have a new job soon! >>> "Eric Britton" 5/14/2007 12:20 PM >>> Numerous nominations continue to float in. Al Gore of course, but could he pass a CO2 test? Someone else asked why we were only talking about males thus far. Good point. Then one very naughty colleague has proposed Paris Hilton. Of course as a soon non-driver . . . (Letter unsigned) From whook at itdp.org Tue May 15 01:45:21 2007 From: whook at itdp.org (Walter Hook) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 12:45:21 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: UN "ambassador" for public transport? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002101c79647$43550c00$3601a8c0@DFJLYL81> Hopefully Penalosa will be Mayor of Bogota again later this year, but if he is not, then he is the obvious choice. His father was UN Secretary for Habitat I, I believe. -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of Lew Fulton Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 8:32 AM To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Subject: [sustran] UN "ambassador" for public transport? Hello all, A UN colleague of mine is interested in exploring finding someone with star power who is (or could logically be) an advocate for public transport and might be interested in becoming a "UN Ambassador" on the topic. Any suggestions? Thanks, Lew Lew Fulton Program Officer, Sustainable Transport Division of GEF Coordination UN Environment Programme PO Box 30552-00100, Nairobi, Kenya tel: +254 20 762 3257 (From Europe and N.America, you can dial via Italy, often a better connection: +39 0831 24 3000, wait for voice then dial 124 3257) fax: +254 20 762 4041/42 lew.fulton@unep.org www.unep.org/gef -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Tue May 15 01:49:24 2007 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (Eric Britton) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 18:49:24 +0200 Subject: [sustran] UN Ambassador for Transport in Cities In-Reply-To: <02e701c79644$77908150$0100a8c0@P90CAD> Message-ID: From: Daryl Oster [mailto:et3@et3.com] Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 6:25 PM Eric, Could YOU pass a CO2 test? How many BTU/year is your footprint? Daryl Oster Fair question Daryl. I have gone on record on this for the last decade, and you can see my (not so hot, but not so bad either) performance notes under Personal Responsibility on the left menu of the New Mobility Agenda (http://newmobility.org). Also more recently you can see how I tried to handle my invitation to address a mayor sustainable transport conference in Beijing a few weeks ago. The story behind that is at Global South, Beijing Mayors Conference. So as far as personal transport is concerned I am 98% walk + bike + (a bit of) public transport. (Not only easy but also agreeable to do in Paris as Lee and others who have lived there can tell you.) But when it's time to travel abroad, I am sticking to the one day of work on the sustainable transport agenda to the place to which I am invited to go - for each hour in transit. Or otherwise I just stay at home and handle it as best I can from here. (And that happens quite a lot. Happily!) Not a great example, I admit. But maybe not so bad either. Eric Britton From edelman at greenidea.info Tue May 15 03:33:33 2007 From: edelman at greenidea.info (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 20:33:33 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Another idea for ambassador Message-ID: <4648AB7D.1070907@greenidea.info> This also from San Francisco... "David Byrne is a bike commuter in Manhattan". Moby, D. Byrne: Pop stars, talented musicians, multi-generational audience, not politicians so more neutral than any politician, their city transport solution is not their job, know lots of people including politicians, have their own money, street cred (look it up if you don't get it)... - T -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman edelman@greenidea.info Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net From lfwright at usa.net Tue May 15 04:33:47 2007 From: lfwright at usa.net (Lloyd Wright) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 15:33:47 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: UN "ambassador" for sustainable transport? Message-ID: <311LeNTGU4534S21.1179171227@cmsweb21.cms.usa.net> Lance Armstrong might be an option to consider. From czegras at MIT.EDU Tue May 15 05:16:19 2007 From: czegras at MIT.EDU (Zegras, P. Christopher) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 16:16:19 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: Transantiago - Is this a project of which we all need to know In-Reply-To: <20070504030118.605D82EB14@mx-list.jca.ne.jp> References: <20070504030118.605D82EB14@mx-list.jca.ne.jp> Message-ID: <4648C393.9070707@mit.edu> Interesting analysis by Chilean news channel, comparing Transantiago with Transmilenio (Bogota): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oc-HZGkotgw&mode=related&search= (featuring many of our Colombian friends....) (it is in Espanol). Their basic take on the differences in 'success' of implementation between the 2 systems: - Phased implementation - Private Vehicle Restriction for Congestion (in Bogota) as opposed to for pollution (in Santiago) - GPS operations in place from the start - Investment in infrastructure: Safe, fully equipped, well-constructed stations with pre-boarding payment and located in the median; and fully segregated busways - Strong coordination between authorities and bus companies. To which I would add: - Overall prioritization of transportation policies. Massive transportation infrastructure expansion in Santiago: >US$1 bn in highway concessions sapping government institutional energy, capacity and resources from the Transantiago plan; and, >US$1 bn in Metro expansion. Saludos, Chris -- P. Christopher Zegras | Asst. Prof., Urban Planning & Transportation Dept. of Urban Studies & Planning | Massachusetts Institute of Tech. 77 Massachusetts Avenue, Room 10-403 | Cambridge, MA 02139 Tel: 617 452 2433 | Fax: 617 258 8081 | czegras@mit.edu http://web.mit.edu/czegras/www/Zegras.htm From edelman at greenidea.info Tue May 15 07:14:48 2007 From: edelman at greenidea.info (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 00:14:48 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Re: UN "ambassador" for sustainable transport? In-Reply-To: <311LeNTGU4534S21.1179171227@cmsweb21.cms.usa.net> References: <311LeNTGU4534S21.1179171227@cmsweb21.cms.usa.net> Message-ID: <4648DF58.4000008@greenidea.info> Hi, Lance Armstrong doesn't usually get around by bike, the thing which helped make him a household name - the Tour de France - has nothing to do with urban cycling. I doubt he rides public transport, either. I think he also is busy with his eponymous foundation which focuses on testicular cancer. *** Dave Snyder, the former director of the San Francisco Bicycle Coalition and current president of the board of Livable City (among other roles) suggested Sandra Oh, a Canadian actress, who he said rides her bike to work. Her current highest profile role is in the U.S. TV show Grey's Anatomy. In 2005, Oh made People magazine's list of the 50 Most Beautiful People^ AND don't miss this link, impressive for obvious reasons: - T p.s. VERY much related to what this ambassador will...uh, "ambass" about, Livable City has one of my favourite sustainable transport graphics front and centre on its website: Lloyd Wright wrote: > Lance Armstrong might be an option to consider. > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). > > -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman edelman@greenidea.info Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net From Lew.Fulton at unep.org Mon May 14 16:05:51 2007 From: Lew.Fulton at unep.org (Lew Fulton) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 10:05:51 +0300 Subject: [sustran] Re: UN "ambassador" for public transport? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks Eric. I think "sustainable transport" might do the trick... Lew "Eric Britton" To "NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups. com" 13/05/2007 20:01 , "Global 'South' Sustainable Transport" Please respond to , plan.org> cc "Peter Ekenger" , "Lee Schipper" , "Mika Kunieda" Subject UN "ambassador" for public transport? This is a splendid idea Lew, Lee and all, with one possible useful adjustment: The problem is that turgid phrase "public transport". I am quite sure that we need to find a title that reaches well beyond those confines. The phrase "public transport" has been around for a long time, and it invariably conjures up visions of buses and rail cars. Kind of an 'old left' vision of what it is needed to "fix" society, a variant of the ABC (Anything But Cars) syndrome. It also lacks sex appeal, and if you want proof of that all you have to do is check out what the various groups around the world that have 'public transport' in their title focus on, do, and how they do it. Altogether far from sufficient from dealing with the mobility and related life quality problem of people living and working (and trying to breath) in Global South cities. Of course those of you who know me are likely to guess that I will now propose "New Mobility", and while it really would do the job there may well be a problem with recognition. We do want a moniker that you don't have to spend allday explaining to people. And as to "Sustainable Transport", well I am afraid that we have all seen over the years that it has existed as a word that it's a very hard concept to get across. Recognizably is important here too. So may I suggest that the organizers of this great idea, and maybe some of us as well, might do well to ponder a phrase that will do the job that needs to be done. Let me end with a story that elucidates a bit of all this. The other day over at another group on gender and transport (www.gatnet.net) in which I participate and which I much admire, one of the really very clever and good members of the group advanced in our discussions of just this, the idea that maybe since we were trying to sell a tough concept, we might want to consider calling it "fashionable transport". The arguments behind it were really interesting and once you had worked your way through them really close to bullet proof - but at the end of the day of course the adjective just doesn't do the necessary job. But it's good to keep thinking, and who better than all of us, eh?. Eric Britton On Behalf Of Lee Schipper Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 6:15 PM Enrique Penalosa? Lee Schipper Director of Research EMBARQ, the WRI Center for Sustainable Transport 10 G St. NE Washington DC, 20002 +1202 729 7735 FAX +1202 7297775 www.embarq.wri.org PS. Also to note: Bruntland was pressed into service recently, I think for Climate. The time I met her in Norway at a meeting her Volvo was kept outside with the engine running the whole time! On Behalf Of Lew Fulton Hello all, A UN colleague of mine is interested in exploring finding someone with star power who is (or could logically be) an advocate for public transport and might be interested in becoming a "UN Ambassador" on the topic. Any suggestions? Thanks, Lew Lew Fulton Program Officer, Sustainable Transport Division of GEF Coordination UN Environment Programme PO Box 30552-00100, Nairobi, Kenya tel: +254 20 762 3257 (From Europe and N. America, you can dial via Italy, often a better connection: +39 0831 24 3000, wait for voice then dial 124 3257) fax: +254 20 762 4041/42 lew.fulton@unep.org www.unep.org/gef From Lew.Fulton at unep.org Mon May 14 16:25:53 2007 From: Lew.Fulton at unep.org (Lew Fulton) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 10:25:53 +0300 Subject: [sustran] Re: UN "ambassador" for public transport? In-Reply-To: <46475CDF.4020704@greenidea.info> Message-ID: I think Enrique Penalosa is perfect in the sense that he is the real deal, is a visionary, is inspiring and is fluent in key languages. But he's not widely known outside of transport and urban sustainability circles. If we could have him star in a major hollywood film, that would do the trick, though I tend to doubt that's on his agenda, or theirs... Probably the key is to get in touch with some big agents and see what stars take transit (obviously they don't live in LA) and would be interested. I'll look into our ambassador system doing this, but in the mean time, if anyone finds out about any stars who have even once in their life been on a bus, let me know :-). Lew "Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory" To Transport" Sent by: sustran-discuss-b cc ounces+lew.fulton =unep.org@list.jc Subject a.apc.org [sustran] Re: UN "ambassador" for public transport? 13/05/2007 21:45 Please respond to edelman@greenidea .info; Please respond to "Global 'South' Sustainable Transport" Hi, Again, I think there is a reason many or perhaps all of these Goodwill Ambassadors are not current, former or future political figures. I am not hiding any bias against Penalosa and I wish that more politicians of all genders had his cajones, but he is perhaps too obvious a supporter of whatever we end up telling UNEP what we want to call "appropriate, desirable and sustainable transport solutions (ADSTS) for cities and regions which are designed to decrease the need for mobility (DDNM)". In regards to the oft-heard and generally reasonable complaint about underground metros costing the equivalent of one million years worth of GNPs of every developing country in the universe, don't you think we need someone who is powerful enough to tell various parties that he or she thinks they might want to consider shifting some dineros, shekels, sea dollars or salt wafers from their military spending - usually way, way-ay-ay more absurd than an inappropriate metro - to ADSTS and DDNM? - T Pendakur wrote: > Absolutely, Enrique Penalosa. He is articulate, has professional and > political experience in "making things happen" and to boot it, he is > absolutely attention catching. > > Best wishes. > > Setty > Dr. V. Setty Pendakur > Professor Emeritus, University of BC > Honorary Professor, China National Academy of Sciences; > Director, ITDP (NY) & Secretary, ABE90-TRB > > President, Pacific Policy and Planning Associates > 702- 1099 Marinaside Cresecent, Vancouver, BC > Canada V6Z 2Z3 > 604-263-3576; Fax: 604-263-6493 > > -----Original Message----- > From: sustran-discuss-bounces+pendakur=interchange.ubc.ca@list.jca.apc.org > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+pendakur=interchange.ubc.ca@list.jca.apc.org > ] On Behalf Of Lee Schipper > Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 9:15 AM > To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport > Subject: [sustran] Re: UN "ambassador" for public transport? > > Enrique Penalosa? > > >>>> Lew Fulton 5/10/2007 8:31:51 AM >>> >>>> > Hello all, > > A UN colleague of mine is interested in exploring finding someone with star > power who is (or could logically be) an advocate for public transport and > might be interested in becoming a "UN Ambassador" on the topic. > > Any suggestions? > > Thanks, > > Lew > > Lew Fulton > Program Officer, Sustainable Transport > Division of GEF Coordination > UN Environment Programme > PO Box 30552-00100, Nairobi, Kenya > tel: +254 20 762 3257 (From Europe and N.America, you can dial via Italy, > often a better connection: +39 0831 24 3000, wait for voice then dial 124 > 3257) > fax: +254 20 762 4041/42 > lew.fulton@unep.org > www.unep.org/gef > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join > the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups > version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real > sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). > Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join > the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups > version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real > sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). > Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/803 - Release Date: 5/13/2007 > 12:17 PM > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/803 - Release Date: 5/13/2007 > 12:17 PM > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). > > -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman edelman@greenidea.info Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From Lew.Fulton at unep.org Tue May 15 15:06:19 2007 From: Lew.Fulton at unep.org (Lew Fulton) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 09:06:19 +0300 Subject: [sustran] Re: UN Ambassador for Transport in Cities In-Reply-To: <464855F3.D997.0038.0@wri.org> Message-ID: I guess Gore is worth a shot, though I suspect he has bigger fish to fry (like he would rather be UN ambassador on "saving the planet"...). In any case I am passing these suggestions along to my colleague who will in turn be trying to drum up support for the concept within the UN system. Will get back to you all with news ASAP (i.e. a year or two from now :-) "Lee Schipper" To , "Lew 14/05/2007 19:28 Fulton" cc "Global 'South' Sustainable Transport" Subject Re: UN Ambassador for Transport in Cities None of us who travel in work could pass a CO2 test - Eric did the first real teleconference I know of (in March 1996 sent to Vancouver) and saved fuel in a meeting where Laurie Michaelis calculated the meeting cost some few hundred giga joules (at 79 kg CO2/gigajoule) to get the rest of us there. So I think Gore might actually be the person. His own house or travel doesn't disqualify him. And we don't expect he'll have a new job soon! >>> "Eric Britton" 5/14/2007 12:20 PM >>> Numerous nominations continue to float in. Al Gore of course, but could he pass a CO2 test? Someone else asked why we were only talking about males thus far. Good point. Then one very naughty colleague has proposed Paris Hilton. Of course as a soon non-driver . . . (Letter unsigned) From carlos.pardo at sutp.org Tue May 15 23:27:41 2007 From: carlos.pardo at sutp.org (Carlos F. Pardo) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 09:27:41 -0500 Subject: [sustran] Re: UN Ambassador for Transport in Cities In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4649C35D.7020605@sutp.org> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070515/65232529/attachment.html From schipper at wri.org Tue May 15 23:32:52 2007 From: schipper at wri.org (Lee Schipper) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 10:32:52 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: UN Ambassador for Transport in Cities - Sonny Rollins? In-Reply-To: References: <464855F3.D997.0038.0@wri.org> Message-ID: <46498C540200003800006F4F@HERMES.wri.org> IN Jazz, Sonny Rollins has been outspoken for environment and even has a song called Global Warming. Its a long shot. but.. >>> Lew Fulton 5/15/2007 2:06:19 AM >>> I guess Gore is worth a shot, though I suspect he has bigger fish to fry (like he would rather be UN ambassador on "saving the planet"...). In any case I am passing these suggestions along to my colleague who will in turn be trying to drum up support for the concept within the UN system. Will get back to you all with news ASAP (i.e. a year or two from now :-) "Lee Schipper" To , "Lew 14/05/2007 19:28 Fulton" cc "Global 'South' Sustainable Transport" Subject Re: UN Ambassador for Transport in Cities None of us who travel in work could pass a CO2 test - Eric did the first real teleconference I know of (in March 1996 sent to Vancouver) and saved fuel in a meeting where Laurie Michaelis calculated the meeting cost some few hundred giga joules (at 79 kg CO2/gigajoule) to get the rest of us there. So I think Gore might actually be the person. His own house or travel doesn't disqualify him. And we don't expect he'll have a new job soon! >>> "Eric Britton" 5/14/2007 12:20 PM >>> Numerous nominations continue to float in. Al Gore of course, but could he pass a CO2 test? Someone else asked why we were only talking about males thus far. Good point. Then one very naughty colleague has proposed Paris Hilton. Of course as a soon non-driver . . . (Letter unsigned) From madhav.g.badami at mcgill.ca Tue May 15 23:43:21 2007 From: madhav.g.badami at mcgill.ca (Madhav Badami, Prof.) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 10:43:21 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: UN "ambassador" for public transport? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <45AEE06A4800AF4FAD8BEF09C433D85F0213ED7C@EXCHANGE2VS2.campus.mcgill.ca> Where's Mahatma Gandhi when we need him? There was a man who literally walked the talk (he also travelled third class; and as I recall, the only time he travelled First Class -- in South Africa -- he got ejected. Do UN ambassadors have to be living? Could we not use the example of people like Gandhi and Ivan Illich, a theologian who wrote more sane stuff about transport than most transport types, in addition to people like Senor Penalosa and Ken Livingstone? Speaking of Ivan Illich, I would recommend his "Energy and Equity" from the 1970s, which contains such insights as: motorized vehicles "create remoteness which they alone can shrink" and "create distances for all and shrink them for only a few"; automobile passengers "become consumers of others' time", and steal time from poor groups and reallocate it to usually richer groups, and finally, the transportation industry, in common with many of our other "service industries", exercises a radical monopoly by creating and shaping the need which it alone can satisfy. Cheers, Madhav ************************************************************************ "As for the future, your task is not to foresee, but to enable it." Antoine de Saint-Exupery Madhav G. Badami, PhD School of Urban Planning and McGill School of Environment McGill University Macdonald-Harrington Building 815 Sherbrooke Street West Montreal, QC, H3A 2K6, Canada Phone: 514-398-3183 (Work); 514-486-2370 (Home) Fax: 514-398-8376; 514-398-1643 URLs: www.mcgill.ca/urbanplanning www.mcgill.ca/mse e-mail: madhav.badami@mcgill.ca -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+madhav.g.badami=mcgill.ca@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+madhav.g.badami=mcgill.ca@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of Lew Fulton Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 3:26 AM To: edelman@greenidea.info; Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Cc: sustran-discuss-bounces+lew.fulton=unep.org@list.jca.apc.org; Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Subject: [sustran] Re: UN "ambassador" for public transport? I think Enrique Penalosa is perfect in the sense that he is the real deal, is a visionary, is inspiring and is fluent in key languages. But he's not widely known outside of transport and urban sustainability circles. If we could have him star in a major hollywood film, that would do the trick, though I tend to doubt that's on his agenda, or theirs... Probably the key is to get in touch with some big agents and see what stars take transit (obviously they don't live in LA) and would be interested. I'll look into our ambassador system doing this, but in the mean time, if anyone finds out about any stars who have even once in their life been on a bus, let me know :-). Lew "Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory" To Transport" Sent by: sustran-discuss-b cc ounces+lew.fulton =unep.org@list.jc Subject a.apc.org [sustran] Re: UN "ambassador" for public transport? 13/05/2007 21:45 Please respond to edelman@greenidea .info; Please respond to "Global 'South' Sustainable Transport" Hi, Again, I think there is a reason many or perhaps all of these Goodwill Ambassadors are not current, former or future political figures. I am not hiding any bias against Penalosa and I wish that more politicians of all genders had his cajones, but he is perhaps too obvious a supporter of whatever we end up telling UNEP what we want to call "appropriate, desirable and sustainable transport solutions (ADSTS) for cities and regions which are designed to decrease the need for mobility (DDNM)". In regards to the oft-heard and generally reasonable complaint about underground metros costing the equivalent of one million years worth of GNPs of every developing country in the universe, don't you think we need someone who is powerful enough to tell various parties that he or she thinks they might want to consider shifting some dineros, shekels, sea dollars or salt wafers from their military spending - usually way, way-ay-ay more absurd than an inappropriate metro - to ADSTS and DDNM? - T Pendakur wrote: > Absolutely, Enrique Penalosa. He is articulate, has professional and > political experience in "making things happen" and to boot it, he is > absolutely attention catching. > > Best wishes. > > Setty > Dr. V. Setty Pendakur > Professor Emeritus, University of BC > Honorary Professor, China National Academy of Sciences; Director, ITDP > (NY) & Secretary, ABE90-TRB > > President, Pacific Policy and Planning Associates > 702- 1099 Marinaside Cresecent, Vancouver, BC Canada V6Z 2Z3 > 604-263-3576; Fax: 604-263-6493 > > -----Original Message----- > From: sustran-discuss-bounces+pendakur=interchange.ubc.ca@list.jca.apc.org > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+pendakur=interchange.ubc.ca@list.jca.apc.org > ] On Behalf Of Lee Schipper > Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 9:15 AM > To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport > Subject: [sustran] Re: UN "ambassador" for public transport? > > Enrique Penalosa? > > >>>> Lew Fulton 5/10/2007 8:31:51 AM >>> >>>> > Hello all, > > A UN colleague of mine is interested in exploring finding someone with star > power who is (or could logically be) an advocate for public transport > and might be interested in becoming a "UN Ambassador" on the topic. > > Any suggestions? > > Thanks, > > Lew > > Lew Fulton > Program Officer, Sustainable Transport Division of GEF Coordination UN > Environment Programme PO Box 30552-00100, Nairobi, Kenya > tel: +254 20 762 3257 (From Europe and N.America, you can dial via > Italy, often a better connection: +39 0831 24 3000, wait for voice > then dial 124 > 3257) > fax: +254 20 762 4041/42 > lew.fulton@unep.org > www.unep.org/gef > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss > to join > the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The > yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post > to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it > seem like you can). > Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing > countries (the 'Global South'). > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss > to join > the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The > yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post > to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it > seem like you can). > Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing > countries (the 'Global South'). > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/803 - Release Date: > 5/13/2007 > 12:17 PM > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/803 - Release Date: > 5/13/2007 > 12:17 PM > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss > to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). > > -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman edelman@greenidea.info Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From sunny.enie at gmail.com Tue May 15 23:52:21 2007 From: sunny.enie at gmail.com (Sunny) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 21:52:21 +0700 Subject: [sustran] Re: UN "ambassador" for public transport? In-Reply-To: <45AEE06A4800AF4FAD8BEF09C433D85F0213ED7C@EXCHANGE2VS2.campus.mcgill.ca> References: <45AEE06A4800AF4FAD8BEF09C433D85F0213ED7C@EXCHANGE2VS2.campus.mcgill.ca> Message-ID: <4649C925.80800@gmail.com> Ah yes as the good prof says Ken Livingston would not be a bad ambassador. He even rides public transport and also a good example for political will! cheers sunny Madhav Badami, Prof. wrote: > Where's Mahatma Gandhi when we need him? There was a man who literally walked the talk (he also travelled third class; and as I recall, the only time he travelled First Class -- in South Africa -- he got ejected. Do UN ambassadors have to be living? Could we not use the example of people like Gandhi and Ivan Illich, a theologian who wrote more sane stuff about transport than most transport types, in addition to people like Senor Penalosa and Ken Livingstone? > > Speaking of Ivan Illich, I would recommend his "Energy and Equity" from the 1970s, which contains such insights as: motorized vehicles "create remoteness which they alone can shrink" and "create distances for all and shrink them for only a few"; automobile passengers "become consumers of others' time", and steal time from poor groups and reallocate it to usually richer groups, and finally, the transportation industry, in common with many of our other "service industries", exercises a radical monopoly by creating and shaping the need which it alone can satisfy. > > Cheers, > > Madhav > From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Wed May 16 00:09:30 2007 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (Eric Britton) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 17:09:30 +0200 Subject: [sustran] UN "ambassador" for transport in cities. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry to protest but I truly despise the idea of your seriously considering looking to media people as leading examples. Come on. They, with only a minuscule number of exceptions, are entirely empty vessels. That's what they do in life. IF that's the way this is heading, I am out of here. Eric Britton PS. In the last decades of her life, I had a lot of contact with Jane Jacobs whom I had known since I was a very young man working with her and others to block a park-destroying highway project in lower Manhattan. Mrs. Jacobs was a great example for the world in terms of what she wrote and how she went about things in her daily life. She walked, she biked, she took the bus. She was, in this context, the very opposite of an actor . . . and their world of here today gone tomorrow. Which makes me think that we should be looking for the real thing and not some ghastly ersatz. Come on now. From schipper at wri.org Wed May 16 00:13:40 2007 From: schipper at wri.org (Lee Schipper) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 11:13:40 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: UN "ambassador" for transport in cities. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <464995E40200003800006F63@HERMES.wri.org> FWIW, Sonny Rollins is no star. He's hip and very concerned. >>> "Eric Britton" 5/15/2007 11:09:30 AM >>> Sorry to protest but I truly despise the idea of your seriously considering looking to media people as leading examples. Come on. They, with only a minuscule number of exceptions, are entirely empty vessels. That's what they do in life. IF that's the way this is heading, I am out of here. Eric Britton PS. In the last decades of her life, I had a lot of contact with Jane Jacobs whom I had known since I was a very young man working with her and others to block a park-destroying highway project in lower Manhattan. Mrs. Jacobs was a great example for the world in terms of what she wrote and how she went about things in her daily life. She walked, she biked, she took the bus. She was, in this context, the very opposite of an actor . . . and their world of here today gone tomorrow. Which makes me think that we should be looking for the real thing and not some ghastly ersatz. Come on now. -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From sunny.enie at gmail.com Wed May 16 01:04:23 2007 From: sunny.enie at gmail.com (Sunny) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 23:04:23 +0700 Subject: [sustran] SUTP Newsletter February - April 2007 Message-ID: <4649DA07.8070007@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070515/8db57357/attachment.html From robert_cowherd at yahoo.com Wed May 16 05:55:56 2007 From: robert_cowherd at yahoo.com (robert cowherd) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 16:55:56 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: UN "ambassador" for public transport? In-Reply-To: <45AEE06A4800AF4FAD8BEF09C433D85F0213ED7C@EXCHANGE2VS2.campus.mcgill.ca> Message-ID: Speaking of Gandhi, I suggest Suha Ozkan of Geneva and Istanbul who has never owned a car and as President of the 2005 International Union of Architects meeting answered the call for a strict security protocol around the delegates by instead throwing the meeting hall doors open to the people of the host city Istanbul. As the Secretary General of the Aga Khan Award for Architecture from 1991 until 2006, Dr. Ozkan brought an agenda of social progress and humanity to the often self-isolating world of architectural prestige. Dr. Ozkan is a life-long walker and has demonstrated his capacity to bridge worlds of difference with a rare combination of charm, toughness, poise, intellect and grace. Robert Cowherd, Associate Professor of Architecture Wentworth Institute of Technology 550 Huntington Ave. Boston, MA 02115 cowherdr@wit.edu; 617 989-4453 On 5/15/07 10:43 AM "Madhav Badami, Prof." wrote: > Where's Mahatma Gandhi when we need him? There was a man who literally walked > the talk (he also travelled third class; and as I recall, the only time he > travelled First Class -- in South Africa -- he got ejected. Do UN ambassadors > have to be living? Could we not use the example of people like Gandhi and Ivan > Illich, a theologian who wrote more sane stuff about transport than most > transport types, in addition to people like Senor Penalosa and Ken > Livingstone? > > Speaking of Ivan Illich, I would recommend his "Energy and Equity" from the > 1970s, which contains such insights as: motorized vehicles "create remoteness > which they alone can shrink" and "create distances for all and shrink them for > only a few"; automobile passengers "become consumers of others' time", and > steal time from poor groups and reallocate it to usually richer groups, and > finally, the transportation industry, in common with many of our other > "service industries", exercises a radical monopoly by creating and shaping the > need which it alone can satisfy. > > Cheers, > > Madhav > > > ************************************************************************ > > "As for the future, your task is not to foresee, but to enable it." > Antoine de Saint-Exupery > > Madhav G. Badami, PhD > School of Urban Planning and McGill School of Environment McGill University > Macdonald-Harrington Building > 815 Sherbrooke Street West > Montreal, QC, H3A 2K6, Canada > > Phone: 514-398-3183 (Work); 514-486-2370 (Home) > Fax: 514-398-8376; 514-398-1643 > URLs: www.mcgill.ca/urbanplanning > www.mcgill.ca/mse > e-mail: madhav.badami@mcgill.ca > > -----Original Message----- > From: sustran-discuss-bounces+madhav.g.badami=mcgill.ca@list.jca.apc.org > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+madhav.g.badami=mcgill.ca@list.jca.apc.org] On > Behalf Of Lew Fulton > Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 3:26 AM > To: edelman@greenidea.info; Global 'South' Sustainable Transport > Cc: sustran-discuss-bounces+lew.fulton=unep.org@list.jca.apc.org; Global > 'South' Sustainable Transport > Subject: [sustran] Re: UN "ambassador" for public transport? > > I think Enrique Penalosa is perfect in the sense that he is the real deal, is > a visionary, is inspiring and is fluent in key languages. But he's not widely > known outside of transport and urban sustainability circles. If we could have > him star in a major hollywood film, that would do the trick, though I tend to > doubt that's on his agenda, or theirs... > > Probably the key is to get in touch with some big agents and see what stars > take transit (obviously they don't live in LA) and would be interested. > I'll look into our ambassador system doing this, but in the mean time, if > anyone finds out about any stars who have even once in their life been on a > bus, let me know :-). > > Lew > > > > > "Todd Edelman, > Green Idea > Factory" To > a.info> Transport" > Sent by: > sustran-discuss-b cc > ounces+lew.fulton > =unep.org@list.jc Subject > a.apc.org [sustran] Re: UN "ambassador" for > public transport? > > 13/05/2007 21:45 > > > Please respond to > edelman@greenidea > .info; Please > respond to > "Global 'South' > Sustainable > Transport" > list.jca.apc.org> > > > > > > > Hi, > > Again, I think there is a reason many or perhaps all of these Goodwill > Ambassadors are not current, former or future political figures. I am not > hiding any bias against Penalosa and I wish that more politicians of all > genders had his cajones, but he is perhaps too obvious a supporter of whatever > we end up telling UNEP what we want to call "appropriate, desirable and > sustainable transport solutions (ADSTS) for cities and regions which are > designed to decrease the need for mobility (DDNM)". > > In regards to the oft-heard and generally reasonable complaint about > underground metros costing the equivalent of one million years worth of GNPs > of every developing country in the universe, don't you think we need someone > who is powerful enough to tell various parties that he or she thinks they > might want to consider shifting some dineros, shekels, sea dollars or salt > wafers from their military spending - usually way, way-ay-ay more absurd than > an inappropriate metro - to ADSTS and DDNM? > > - T > > Pendakur wrote: >> Absolutely, Enrique Penalosa. He is articulate, has professional and >> political experience in "making things happen" and to boot it, he is >> absolutely attention catching. >> >> Best wishes. >> >> Setty >> Dr. V. Setty Pendakur >> Professor Emeritus, University of BC >> Honorary Professor, China National Academy of Sciences; Director, ITDP >> (NY) & Secretary, ABE90-TRB >> >> President, Pacific Policy and Planning Associates >> 702- 1099 Marinaside Cresecent, Vancouver, BC Canada V6Z 2Z3 >> 604-263-3576; Fax: 604-263-6493 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: > sustran-discuss-bounces+pendakur=interchange.ubc.ca@list.jca.apc.org >> > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+pendakur=interchange.ubc.ca@list.jca.apc.org > >> ] On Behalf Of Lee Schipper >> Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 9:15 AM >> To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport >> Subject: [sustran] Re: UN "ambassador" for public transport? >> >> Enrique Penalosa? >> >> >>>>> Lew Fulton 5/10/2007 8:31:51 AM >>> >>>>> >> Hello all, >> >> A UN colleague of mine is interested in exploring finding someone with > star >> power who is (or could logically be) an advocate for public transport >> and might be interested in becoming a "UN Ambassador" on the topic. >> >> Any suggestions? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Lew >> >> Lew Fulton >> Program Officer, Sustainable Transport Division of GEF Coordination UN >> Environment Programme PO Box 30552-00100, Nairobi, Kenya >> tel: +254 20 762 3257 (From Europe and N.America, you can dial via >> Italy, often a better connection: +39 0831 24 3000, wait for voice >> then dial 124 >> 3257) >> fax: +254 20 762 4041/42 >> lew.fulton@unep.org >> www.unep.org/gef >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via >> YAHOOGROUPS. >> >> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss >> to > join >> the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The >> yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post >> to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it >> seem like you > can). >> Apologies for the confusing arrangement. >> >> ================================================================ >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing >> countries (the 'Global South'). >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via >> YAHOOGROUPS. >> >> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss >> to > join >> the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The >> yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post >> to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it >> seem like you > can). >> Apologies for the confusing arrangement. >> >> ================================================================ >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing >> countries (the 'Global South'). >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/803 - Release Date: >> 5/13/2007 >> 12:17 PM >> >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/803 - Release Date: >> 5/13/2007 >> 12:17 PM >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. >> >> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss >> to > join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups > version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real > sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). > Apologies for the confusing arrangement. >> >> ================================================================ >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the > 'Global South'). >> >> > > > -- > -------------------------------------------- > > Todd Edelman > Director > Green Idea Factory > > Korunn? 72 > CZ-10100 Praha 10 > Czech Republic > > ++420 605 915 970 > ++420 222 517 832 > Skype: toddedelman > > edelman@greenidea.info > > Green Idea Factory, > a member of World Carfree Network > www.worldcarfree.net > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join > the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups > version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real > sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). > Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable > and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global > South'). > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join > the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups > version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real > sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). > Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable > and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global > South'). > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join > the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups > version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real > sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). > Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable > and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global > South'). From sunny.enie at gmail.com Wed May 16 18:42:03 2007 From: sunny.enie at gmail.com (Sunny) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 16:42:03 +0700 Subject: [sustran] GTZ-SUTP announces the release of a new module titled "The CDM in the Transport Sector" Message-ID: <464AD1EB.2010304@gmail.com> /GTZ-SUTP announces the release of a new module titled "The CDM in the Transport Sector"/ *//* The Clean Development Mechanism (CDM) is a major instrument to promote climate change mitigation projects in developing countries. It was set up under the Kyoto Protocol and allows developed countries to meet parts of their greenhouse reduction targets by investing in emissions reducing projects in developing countries. Up to now, the transport sector has seen only little investment in CDM projects as methodological requirements are rather restrictive. The TransMilenio -- the Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) project in Bogot?/Colombia -- was the first transport CDM project approved under the Kyoto Protocol. BRT projects appear to have a high CDM potential worldwide. This module, prepared by Dr. J?rg M. Gr?tter, summarises the core issues of CDM transport projects and presents the Transmilenio BRT as a case study. Dr. Gr?tter has worked on climate change projects in more than 30 countries worldwide. He is the author of the first approved large-scale CDM transport methodology BRT projects and the author of the only registered CDM transport project (TransMilenio) Please visit http://www.sutp.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=407&Itemid=40&lang=en Users in China please visit http://www.sutp.cn/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=293&Itemid=40&lang=en Kind regards Sunny -- *Santhosh K. Kodukula* *Project Assistant* GTZ Sustainable Urban Transport Project (SUTP) Room 0942, Transport Division, UN-ESCAP ESCAP UN Building Rajadamnern Nok Rd. Bangkok 10200, Thailand Tel: +66 (0) 2 - 288 1321 Fax: +66 (0) 2 - 280 6042 Mobile: +66 (0) 84?113-0181 e-mail: santhosh.kodukula@sutp.org Website: www.sutp.org Skype: sunny_nwho -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070516/3e20085c/attachment.html From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Wed May 16 21:25:01 2007 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (Eric Britton) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 14:25:01 +0200 Subject: [sustran] "The CDM in the Transport Sector" In-Reply-To: <464AD1EB.2010304@gmail.com> Message-ID: Pete, 1. How are your guys working at all with the CDM (Clean Development Mechanism)? 2. Are they doing anything with this in your work Joberg? 3. Despite it general sluggishness, I would like to get a bit closer to it myself for the kinds of projects and programs we think that the developing world should be bringing on line in our main areas of expertise. To my mind this relates to just about anything I might eventually do for you. Best/Eric -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070516/acdca29d/attachment.html From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Wed May 16 21:52:07 2007 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (Eric Britton) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 14:52:07 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Senegal's Taxi Sisters Message-ID: From: Aimee Gauthier [mailto:agauthier@itdp.org] http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=86&art_id=nw200705152224532 07C914762 Senegal's 'Taxi Sisters' to take to the roads May 16 2007 at 01:27AM Dakar - Female cab drivers dubbed "Taxi Sisters" will take to the streets of Senegal's sprawling capital Dakar for the first time this month in a move the government hopes will boost gender equality in the mostly Muslim nation. "This is a new way of tackling the gender issue. What a man can do a woman can also do," Aida Mbodj, minister in charge of women, family and social development in the former French colony, said. The female cab drivers will take the wheel behind bright-yellow Chinese-made vehicles with "Taxi Sisters" written in black letters on the bonnet. Senegal is one of West Africa's more progressive states in terms of gender equality, albeit coming from a low base. Forced marriages and female genital mutilation are slowly dying out and the country has even boasted a female prime minister. Passengers hope the "Taxi Sisters" will have better road sense than their male counterparts, who often mount pavements or drive the wrong way down streets as they compete with mopeds, horse-drawn carts, goats and pedestrians for space. "I think the Taxi Sisters will bring a soft female touch and discipline to the roads and I hope the male taxi drivers will change their driving behaviour," said banker Alimatou Diop. Those who do not may face the wrath of the government's other new gender initiative: female motorcycle traffic police officers. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070516/f75d89f8/attachment.html From carlos.pardo at sutp.org Thu May 17 06:26:00 2007 From: carlos.pardo at sutp.org (Carlos F. Pardo) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 16:26:00 -0500 Subject: [sustran] China's tolls eluded... Message-ID: <464B76E8.4070606@sutp.org> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070516/ed119328/attachment.html From edelman at greenidea.info Fri May 18 02:34:34 2007 From: edelman at greenidea.info (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 19:34:34 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Oxygen supplies for India police Message-ID: <464C922A.1080103@greenidea.info> *Police stations across the Indian city of Calcutta have been equipped with oxygen devices to enable police to offset the effects of pollution * -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman edelman@greenidea.info Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net From sujit at vsnl.com Fri May 18 02:50:58 2007 From: sujit at vsnl.com (Sujit Patwardhan) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 23:20:58 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: Oxygen supplies for India police In-Reply-To: <464C922A.1080103@greenidea.info> References: <464C922A.1080103@greenidea.info> Message-ID: <4cfd20aa0705171050g1112edbk92ed95fc981a4169@mail.gmail.com> Like the offer of a "last cigarette" to the man being walked to the gallows....... -- Sujit On 5/17/07, Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory wrote: > > *Police stations across the Indian city of Calcutta have been equipped > with oxygen devices to enable police to offset the effects of pollution > > * > > -- > -------------------------------------------- > > Todd Edelman > Director > Green Idea Factory > > Korunn? 72 > CZ-10100 Praha 10 > Czech Republic > > ++420 605 915 970 > ++420 222 517 832 > Skype: toddedelman > > edelman@greenidea.info > > Green Idea Factory, > a member of World Carfree Network > www.worldcarfree.net > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to > join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The > yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the > real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you > can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > -- ------------------------------------------------------ Sujit Patwardhan sujit@vsnl.com sujitjp@gmail.com "Yamuna", ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007 India Tel: 25537955 ----------------------------------------------------- Hon. Secretary: Parisar www.parisar.org ------------------------------------------------------ Founder Member: PTTF (Pune Traffic & Transportation Forum) www.pttf.net ------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070517/1be49cd8/attachment.html From ciclored at rcp.net.pe Fri May 18 23:07:53 2007 From: ciclored at rcp.net.pe (ciclored) Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 09:07:53 -0500 Subject: [sustran] Islamic Bicycles for Iranian Women References: <464C922A.1080103@greenidea.info> <4cfd20aa0705171050g1112edbk92ed95fc981a4169@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <002001c79955$eff7e8e0$2101a8c0@your4105e587b6> The article is in spanish, maybe somebody can find the english version... greetings, Carlos Cordero (PD/Agencia EFE).- Ir?n fabricar? "bicicletas isl?micas" para las mujeres, pensadas para disimular sus formas mediante una cabina que cubrir?a la mitad del cuerpo. "Este proyecto permite fomentar el deporte femenino", se?al? Elaheh Sofali, una de las responsables del proyecto, seg?n informa el diario gubernamental del pa?s. Faezeh Hach?mi, hija del ex presidente iran? Akbar Hach?mi Rafsandjani, ex responsable del deporte ol?mpico femenino, intent? el desarrollo del ciclismo entre las mujeres en los a?os 90, pero est? decisi?n no tuvo el ?xito deseado por la oposici?n de los religiosos conservadores. EL TEL?N DE FONDO O EL VELO DE FONDO Como cada primavera, la campa?a contra la "vestimenta indecorosa" se est? ensa?ando con las mujeres, cuyos pa?uelos coloridos y cada vez m?s escuetos desaf?an la imposici?n del uniforme isl?mico. S?lo durante los cuatro primeros d?as de la campa?a, 150.000 personas fueron interpeladas en todo el pa?s, de las que 13 pasaron a disposici?n judicial, seg?n inform? el jefe de la polic?a, general Ismael Ahmadi-Moghaddam. El resto se libraron firmando compromisos de buena conducta que en caso de reincidencia se aportar?n ante el juez. Desde el arranque de la campa?a, m?s de 3.000 mujeres (una media de 150 al d?a) han sido detenidas y han pasado al menos unas horas en comisar?a ----- Original Message ----- From: Sujit Patwardhan To: edelman@greenidea.info ; Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 12:50 PM Subject: [sustran] Re: Oxygen supplies for India police Like the offer of a "last cigarette" to the man being walked to the gallows....... -- Sujit On 5/17/07, Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory wrote: *Police stations across the Indian city of Calcutta have been equipped with oxygen devices to enable police to offset the effects of pollution * -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman edelman@greenidea.info Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). -- ------------------------------------------------------ Sujit Patwardhan sujit@vsnl.com sujitjp@gmail.com "Yamuna", ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007 India Tel: 25537955 ----------------------------------------------------- Hon. Secretary: Parisar www.parisar.org ------------------------------------------------------ Founder Member: PTTF (Pune Traffic & Transportation Forum) www.pttf.net ------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070518/ea4c6af3/attachment.html From madhav.g.badami at mcgill.ca Sat May 19 00:19:37 2007 From: madhav.g.badami at mcgill.ca (Madhav Badami, Prof.) Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 11:19:37 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Get out and push ... Message-ID: <45AEE06A4800AF4FAD8BEF09C433D85F058F665C@EXCHANGE2VS2.campus.mcgill.ca> Enjoy ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6666729.stm ************************************************************************ "As for the future, your task is not to foresee, but to enable it." Antoine de Saint-Exupery Madhav G. Badami, PhD School of Urban Planning and McGill School of Environment McGill University Macdonald-Harrington Building 815 Sherbrooke Street West Montreal, QC, H3A 2K6, Canada Phone: 514-398-3183 (Work); 514-486-2370 (Home) Fax: 514-398-8376; 514-398-1643 URLs: www.mcgill.ca/urbanplanning www.mcgill.ca/mse e-mail: madhav.badami@mcgill.ca -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070518/79c7cd5f/attachment.html From carlos.pardo at sutp.org Sat May 19 00:31:22 2007 From: carlos.pardo at sutp.org (Carlos F. Pardo) Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 10:31:22 -0500 Subject: [sustran] English version: Re: Islamic Bicycles for Iranian Women In-Reply-To: <002001c79955$eff7e8e0$2101a8c0@your4105e587b6> References: <464C922A.1080103@greenidea.info> <4cfd20aa0705171050g1112edbk92ed95fc981a4169@mail.gmail.com> <002001c79955$eff7e8e0$2101a8c0@your4105e587b6> Message-ID: <464DC6CA.1020307@sutp.org> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070518/f909c4f5/attachment.html From whook at itdp.org Sat May 19 07:04:15 2007 From: whook at itdp.org (Walter Hook) Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 18:04:15 -0400 Subject: [sustran] contracting out parking to private concessionaires In-Reply-To: <464DC6CA.1020307@sutp.org> Message-ID: <00ab01c79998$7ab72490$3601a8c0@DFJLYL81> Does anyone have any information/sources for the possibilities of contracting out on-street parking to private concessionaires, the benefits and risks, etc? Best Walter -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of Carlos F. Pardo Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 11:31 AM To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Subject: [sustran] English version: Re: Islamic Bicycles for Iranian Women The English version of the brief summary of that news is in: http://www.france24.com/france24Public/en/administration/afp-news.html?id=07 0517085444.ykmz3ms5 &cat=null I guess the complete article is not in English. Pretty interesting! Best regards, Carlos F. Pardo ciclored wrote: The article is in spanish, maybe somebody can find the english version... greetings, Carlos Cordero (PD/Agencia EFE).- Ir?n fabricar? "bicicletas isl?micas" para las mujeres, pensadas para disimular sus formas mediante una cabina que cubrir?a la mitad del cuerpo. "Este proyecto permite fomentar el deporte femenino", se?al? Elaheh Sofali, una de las responsables del proyecto, seg?n informa el diario gubernamental del pa?s. Faezeh Hach?mi, hija del ex presidente iran? Akbar Hach?mi Rafsandjani, ex responsable del deporte ol?mpico femenino, intent? el desarrollo del ciclismo entre las mujeres en los a?os 90, pero est? decisi?n no tuvo el ?xito deseado por la oposici?n de los religiosos conservadores. EL TEL?N DE FONDO O EL VELO DE FONDO Como cada primavera, la campa?a contra la "vestimenta indecorosa" se est? ensa?ando con las mujeres, cuyos pa?uelos coloridos y cada vez m?s escuetos desaf?an la imposici?n del uniforme isl?mico. S?lo durante los cuatro primeros d?as de la campa?a, 150.000 personas fueron interpeladas en todo el pa?s, de las que 13 pasaron a disposici?n judicial, seg?n inform? el jefe de la polic?a, general Ismael Ahmadi-Moghaddam. El resto se libraron firmando compromisos de buena conducta que en caso de reincidencia se aportar?n ante el juez. Desde el arranque de la campa?a, m?s de 3.000 mujeres (una media de 150 al d?a) han sido detenidas y han pasado al menos unas horas en comisar?a ----- Original Message ----- From: Sujit Patwardhan To: edelman@greenidea.info ; Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 12:50 PM Subject: [sustran] Re: Oxygen supplies for India police Like the offer of a "last cigarette" to the man being walked to the gallows....... -- Sujit On 5/17/07, Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory wrote: *Police stations across the Indian city of Calcutta have been equipped with oxygen devices to enable police to offset the effects of pollution * > -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman edelman@greenidea.info Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). -- ------------------------------------------------------ Sujit Patwardhan sujit@vsnl.com sujitjp@gmail.com "Yamuna", ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007 India Tel: 25537955 ----------------------------------------------------- Hon. Secretary: Parisar www.parisar.org ------------------------------------------------------ Founder Member: PTTF (Pune Traffic & Transportation Forum) www.pttf.net ------------------------------------------------------ _____ -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). __________ NOD32 2276 (20070518) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com _____ -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). __________ NOD32 2276 (20070518) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070518/949a5fc5/attachment.html From schipper at wri.org Sat May 19 07:13:25 2007 From: schipper at wri.org (Lee Schipper) Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 18:13:25 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: contracting out parking to private concessionaires In-Reply-To: <00ab01c79998$7ab72490$3601a8c0@DFJLYL81> References: <464DC6CA.1020307@sutp.org> <00ab01c79998$7ab72490$3601a8c0@DFJLYL81> Message-ID: <464DECC502000038000078C8@HERMES.wri.org> In the days after the fall of Communism in Poland, this seemed to happen everywhere. I remember pulling into my hotel in Katowice in my hosts car..the parking guy appeared out of nowhere from a mobile home and tried to charge my friend for setting me down. Lots of other places had contracted out parking. The point of street parking is that the value of the street is usual MUCH more than is charged per hour for parking. A Swedish study (I think Jan Owen Jansson) used a hedonic model to see how much people in Stockholm valued open space, park benches, etc. From that he concluded that the space for on-street parking was worth far more per hour that was charged. (We saw this ourselves in New York City yesterday, on street metered parking near Columbia U for $0.50/hour, while it was $13 for the first hour in a garage) Seems to me it is less important whether the street parking is contracted or not, the main point is to make users pay the real market value of the land! Lee Schipper Director of Research EMBARQ, the WRI Center for Sustainable Transport 10 G St. NE Washington DC, 20002 +1202 729 7735 FAX +1202 7297775 www.embarq.wri.org >>> "Walter Hook" 5/18/2007 6:04:15 PM >>> Does anyone have any information/sources for the possibilities of contracting out on-street parking to private concessionaires, the benefits and risks, etc? Best Walter -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of Carlos F. Pardo Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 11:31 AM To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Subject: [sustran] English version: Re: Islamic Bicycles for Iranian Women The English version of the brief summary of that news is in: http://www.france24.com/france24Public/en/administration/afp-news.html?id=07 0517085444.ykmz3ms5 &cat=null I guess the complete article is not in English. Pretty interesting! Best regards, Carlos F. Pardo ciclored wrote: The article is in spanish, maybe somebody can find the english version... greetings, Carlos Cordero (PD/Agencia EFE).- Ir?n fabricar? "bicicletas isl?micas" para las mujeres, pensadas para disimular sus formas mediante una cabina que cubrir?a la mitad del cuerpo. "Este proyecto permite fomentar el deporte femenino", se?al? Elaheh Sofali, una de las responsables del proyecto, seg?n informa el diario gubernamental del pa?s. Faezeh Hach?mi, hija del ex presidente iran? Akbar Hach?mi Rafsandjani, ex responsable del deporte ol?mpico femenino, intent? el desarrollo del ciclismo entre las mujeres en los a?os 90, pero est? decisi?n no tuvo el ?xito deseado por la oposici?n de los religiosos conservadores. EL TEL?N DE FONDO O EL VELO DE FONDO Como cada primavera, la campa?a contra la "vestimenta indecorosa" se est? ensa?ando con las mujeres, cuyos pa?uelos coloridos y cada vez m?s escuetos desaf?an la imposici?n del uniforme isl?mico. S?lo durante los cuatro primeros d?as de la campa?a, 150.000 personas fueron interpeladas en todo el pa?s, de las que 13 pasaron a disposici?n judicial, seg?n inform? el jefe de la polic?a, general Ismael Ahmadi-Moghaddam. El resto se libraron firmando compromisos de buena conducta que en caso de reincidencia se aportar?n ante el juez. Desde el arranque de la campa?a, m?s de 3.000 mujeres (una media de 150 al d?a) han sido detenidas y han pasado al menos unas horas en comisar?a ----- Original Message ----- From: Sujit Patwardhan To: edelman@greenidea.info ; Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 12:50 PM Subject: [sustran] Re: Oxygen supplies for India police Like the offer of a "last cigarette" to the man being walked to the gallows....... -- Sujit On 5/17/07, Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory wrote: *Police stations across the Indian city of Calcutta have been equipped with oxygen devices to enable police to offset the effects of pollution * > -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman edelman@greenidea.info Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). -- ------------------------------------------------------ Sujit Patwardhan sujit@vsnl.com sujitjp@gmail.com "Yamuna", ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007 India Tel: 25537955 ----------------------------------------------------- Hon. Secretary: Parisar www.parisar.org ------------------------------------------------------ Founder Member: PTTF (Pune Traffic & Transportation Forum) www.pttf.net ------------------------------------------------------ _____ -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). __________ NOD32 2276 (20070518) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com _____ -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). __________ NOD32 2276 (20070518) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com From whook at itdp.org Sat May 19 07:25:09 2007 From: whook at itdp.org (Walter Hook) Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 18:25:09 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: contracting out parking to private concessionaires In-Reply-To: <464DECC502000038000078C8@HERMES.wri.org> Message-ID: <00bb01c7999b$66b75520$3601a8c0@DFJLYL81> Lee, Well, yes, this is the idea, to bring the price up to market rate. But there is also a question in my mind about bringing parking under the control of the state, and into a proper regulatory regime, and of using the money for street improvements and maintenance. After all, you can theoretically get at congestion charging through properly regulated parking. I should think that if a contract were structured with a private concessionaire in an intelligent way, the parking concessionaire would be perhaps obliged to provide some sort of public service (street cleaning, the construction of street furniture, etc), in exchange for being allowed to collect the parking revenues in a particular district. This would create an incentive for the private firm to charge market rate for the parking. If there were some sort of quality of service penalties for underperformance, maybe this sort of PPP might lead to better public space ,just as transmilenio led to better maintained buses. I was wondering if anything like this had been tried, to anyone's knowledge. -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of Lee Schipper Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 6:13 PM To: 'Global 'South' Sustainable Transport' Subject: [sustran] Re: contracting out parking to private concessionaires In the days after the fall of Communism in Poland, this seemed to happen everywhere. I remember pulling into my hotel in Katowice in my hosts car..the parking guy appeared out of nowhere from a mobile home and tried to charge my friend for setting me down. Lots of other places had contracted out parking. The point of street parking is that the value of the street is usual MUCH more than is charged per hour for parking. A Swedish study (I think Jan Owen Jansson) used a hedonic model to see how much people in Stockholm valued open space, park benches, etc. From that he concluded that the space for on-street parking was worth far more per hour that was charged. (We saw this ourselves in New York City yesterday, on street metered parking near Columbia U for $0.50/hour, while it was $13 for the first hour in a garage) Seems to me it is less important whether the street parking is contracted or not, the main point is to make users pay the real market value of the land! Lee Schipper Director of Research EMBARQ, the WRI Center for Sustainable Transport 10 G St. NE Washington DC, 20002 +1202 729 7735 FAX +1202 7297775 www.embarq.wri.org >>> "Walter Hook" 5/18/2007 6:04:15 PM >>> Does anyone have any information/sources for the possibilities of contracting out on-street parking to private concessionaires, the benefits and risks, etc? Best Walter -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of Carlos F. Pardo Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 11:31 AM To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Subject: [sustran] English version: Re: Islamic Bicycles for Iranian Women The English version of the brief summary of that news is in: http://www.france24.com/france24Public/en/administration/afp-news.html?id=07 0517085444.ykmz3ms5 &cat=null I guess the complete article is not in English. Pretty interesting! Best regards, Carlos F. Pardo ciclored wrote: The article is in spanish, maybe somebody can find the english version... greetings, Carlos Cordero (PD/Agencia EFE).- Ir?n fabricar? "bicicletas isl?micas" para las mujeres, pensadas para disimular sus formas mediante una cabina que cubrir?a la mitad del cuerpo. "Este proyecto permite fomentar el deporte femenino", se?al? Elaheh Sofali, una de las responsables del proyecto, seg?n informa el diario gubernamental del pa?s. Faezeh Hach?mi, hija del ex presidente iran? Akbar Hach?mi Rafsandjani, ex responsable del deporte ol?mpico femenino, intent? el desarrollo del ciclismo entre las mujeres en los a?os 90, pero est? decisi?n no tuvo el ?xito deseado por la oposici?n de los religiosos conservadores. EL TEL?N DE FONDO O EL VELO DE FONDO Como cada primavera, la campa?a contra la "vestimenta indecorosa" se est? ensa?ando con las mujeres, cuyos pa?uelos coloridos y cada vez m?s escuetos desaf?an la imposici?n del uniforme isl?mico. S?lo durante los cuatro primeros d?as de la campa?a, 150.000 personas fueron interpeladas en todo el pa?s, de las que 13 pasaron a disposici?n judicial, seg?n inform? el jefe de la polic?a, general Ismael Ahmadi-Moghaddam. El resto se libraron firmando compromisos de buena conducta que en caso de reincidencia se aportar?n ante el juez. Desde el arranque de la campa?a, m?s de 3.000 mujeres (una media de 150 al d?a) han sido detenidas y han pasado al menos unas horas en comisar?a ----- Original Message ----- From: Sujit Patwardhan To: edelman@greenidea.info ; Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 12:50 PM Subject: [sustran] Re: Oxygen supplies for India police Like the offer of a "last cigarette" to the man being walked to the gallows....... -- Sujit On 5/17/07, Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory wrote: *Police stations across the Indian city of Calcutta have been equipped with oxygen devices to enable police to offset the effects of pollution * > -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman edelman@greenidea.info Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). -- ------------------------------------------------------ Sujit Patwardhan sujit@vsnl.com sujitjp@gmail.com "Yamuna", ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007 India Tel: 25537955 ----------------------------------------------------- Hon. Secretary: Parisar www.parisar.org ------------------------------------------------------ Founder Member: PTTF (Pune Traffic & Transportation Forum) www.pttf.net ------------------------------------------------------ _____ -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). __________ NOD32 2276 (20070518) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com _____ -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). __________ NOD32 2276 (20070518) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From edelman at greenidea.info Sat May 19 07:29:55 2007 From: edelman at greenidea.info (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory) Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 00:29:55 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Re: contracting out parking to private concessionaires In-Reply-To: <00ab01c79998$7ab72490$3601a8c0@DFJLYL81> References: <00ab01c79998$7ab72490$3601a8c0@DFJLYL81> Message-ID: <464E28E3.3020307@greenidea.info> Hi, With all due respect, I fully realise this first bit doesn't help answer your question, but I suggest that on-street parking be contracted out to gardening firms, companies which plant trees, and so on. This is a concession to no one but Mother Nature, and has great benefits but risks creating an unexpected smile from a child, or even multiple children; please see - T p.s. My feeling is that when on-street parking becomes what I will call "visually privatised" - as it is just a lease - it encourages in the worst way, with the worst use, the exploitation of a public resource for financial gain, no matter how much money is collected. "Hi, I would like one order of new city. Please don't sugar-coat the parking... no, in fact, please hold the parking. Thank you" Walter Hook wrote: > > Does anyone have any information/sources for the possibilities of > contracting out on-street parking to private concessionaires, the > benefits and risks, etc? > > > > Best > > Walter > > > > [...] -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman edelman@greenidea.info Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070519/da184baf/attachment.html From madhav.g.badami at mcgill.ca Sat May 19 07:37:58 2007 From: madhav.g.badami at mcgill.ca (Madhav Badami, Prof.) Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 18:37:58 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: contracting out parking to private concessionaires References: <00bb01c7999b$66b75520$3601a8c0@DFJLYL81> Message-ID: <45AEE06A4800AF4FAD8BEF09C433D85F03078156@EXCHANGE2VS2.campus.mcgill.ca> Hello all, There is another interesting dimension to this problem -- while parking control and pricing is a major factor in TDM, in many low-income Asian countries, where scooters, motorcycles and mopeds form as much as 70% of the motor vehicle fleet, controlling (let alone charging for) parking is a major challenge, given that these vehicles can be -- and are -- parked almost anywhere (and everywhere). Madhav ************************************************************************ "As for the future, your task is not to foresee, but to enable it." Antoine de Saint-Exupery Madhav G. Badami, PhD School of Urban Planning and McGill School of Environment McGill University Macdonald-Harrington Building 815 Sherbrooke Street West Montreal, QC, H3A 2K6, Canada Phone: 514-398-3183 (Work); 514-486-2370 (Home) Fax: 514-398-8376; 514-398-1643 URLs: www.mcgill.ca/urbanplanning www.mcgill.ca/mse e-mail: madhav.badami@mcgill.ca -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+madhav.g.badami=mcgill.ca@list.jca.apc.org on behalf of Walter Hook Sent: Fri 5/18/2007 6:25 PM To: 'Global 'South' Sustainable Transport' Subject: [sustran] Re: contracting out parking to private concessionaires Lee, Well, yes, this is the idea, to bring the price up to market rate. But there is also a question in my mind about bringing parking under the control of the state, and into a proper regulatory regime, and of using the money for street improvements and maintenance. After all, you can theoretically get at congestion charging through properly regulated parking. I should think that if a contract were structured with a private concessionaire in an intelligent way, the parking concessionaire would be perhaps obliged to provide some sort of public service (street cleaning, the construction of street furniture, etc), in exchange for being allowed to collect the parking revenues in a particular district. This would create an incentive for the private firm to charge market rate for the parking. If there were some sort of quality of service penalties for underperformance, maybe this sort of PPP might lead to better public space ,just as transmilenio led to better maintained buses. I was wondering if anything like this had been tried, to anyone's knowledge. -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of Lee Schipper Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 6:13 PM To: 'Global 'South' Sustainable Transport' Subject: [sustran] Re: contracting out parking to private concessionaires In the days after the fall of Communism in Poland, this seemed to happen everywhere. I remember pulling into my hotel in Katowice in my hosts car..the parking guy appeared out of nowhere from a mobile home and tried to charge my friend for setting me down. Lots of other places had contracted out parking. The point of street parking is that the value of the street is usual MUCH more than is charged per hour for parking. A Swedish study (I think Jan Owen Jansson) used a hedonic model to see how much people in Stockholm valued open space, park benches, etc. From that he concluded that the space for on-street parking was worth far more per hour that was charged. (We saw this ourselves in New York City yesterday, on street metered parking near Columbia U for $0.50/hour, while it was $13 for the first hour in a garage) Seems to me it is less important whether the street parking is contracted or not, the main point is to make users pay the real market value of the land! Lee Schipper Director of Research EMBARQ, the WRI Center for Sustainable Transport 10 G St. NE Washington DC, 20002 +1202 729 7735 FAX +1202 7297775 www.embarq.wri.org >>> "Walter Hook" 5/18/2007 6:04:15 PM >>> Does anyone have any information/sources for the possibilities of contracting out on-street parking to private concessionaires, the benefits and risks, etc? Best Walter -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of Carlos F. Pardo Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 11:31 AM To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Subject: [sustran] English version: Re: Islamic Bicycles for Iranian Women The English version of the brief summary of that news is in: http://www.france24.com/france24Public/en/administration/afp-news.html?id=07 0517085444.ykmz3ms5 &cat=null I guess the complete article is not in English. Pretty interesting! Best regards, Carlos F. Pardo ciclored wrote: The article is in spanish, maybe somebody can find the english version... greetings, Carlos Cordero (PD/Agencia EFE).- Ir?n fabricar? "bicicletas isl?micas" para las mujeres, pensadas para disimular sus formas mediante una cabina que cubrir?a la mitad del cuerpo. "Este proyecto permite fomentar el deporte femenino", se?al? Elaheh Sofali, una de las responsables del proyecto, seg?n informa el diario gubernamental del pa?s. Faezeh Hach?mi, hija del ex presidente iran? Akbar Hach?mi Rafsandjani, ex responsable del deporte ol?mpico femenino, intent? el desarrollo del ciclismo entre las mujeres en los a?os 90, pero est? decisi?n no tuvo el ?xito deseado por la oposici?n de los religiosos conservadores. EL TEL?N DE FONDO O EL VELO DE FONDO Como cada primavera, la campa?a contra la "vestimenta indecorosa" se est? ensa?ando con las mujeres, cuyos pa?uelos coloridos y cada vez m?s escuetos desaf?an la imposici?n del uniforme isl?mico. S?lo durante los cuatro primeros d?as de la campa?a, 150.000 personas fueron interpeladas en todo el pa?s, de las que 13 pasaron a disposici?n judicial, seg?n inform? el jefe de la polic?a, general Ismael Ahmadi-Moghaddam. El resto se libraron firmando compromisos de buena conducta que en caso de reincidencia se aportar?n ante el juez. Desde el arranque de la campa?a, m?s de 3.000 mujeres (una media de 150 al d?a) han sido detenidas y han pasado al menos unas horas en comisar?a ----- Original Message ----- From: Sujit Patwardhan To: edelman@greenidea.info ; Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 12:50 PM Subject: [sustran] Re: Oxygen supplies for India police Like the offer of a "last cigarette" to the man being walked to the gallows....... -- Sujit On 5/17/07, Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory wrote: *Police stations across the Indian city of Calcutta have been equipped with oxygen devices to enable police to offset the effects of pollution * > -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman edelman@greenidea.info Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). -- ------------------------------------------------------ Sujit Patwardhan sujit@vsnl.com sujitjp@gmail.com "Yamuna", ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007 India Tel: 25537955 ----------------------------------------------------- Hon. Secretary: Parisar www.parisar.org ------------------------------------------------------ Founder Member: PTTF (Pune Traffic & Transportation Forum) www.pttf.net ------------------------------------------------------ _____ -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). __________ NOD32 2276 (20070518) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com _____ -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). __________ NOD32 2276 (20070518) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From zvi at inro.ca Sat May 19 07:38:50 2007 From: zvi at inro.ca (Zvi Leve) Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 18:38:50 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: contracting out parking to private concessionaires In-Reply-To: <00bb01c7999b$66b75520$3601a8c0@DFJLYL81> References: <00bb01c7999b$66b75520$3601a8c0@DFJLYL81> Message-ID: <464E2AFA.5080502@inro.ca> I am more familiar with the North American scenario where a city 'offloads' the maintenance/enforcement of their on-street parking to a private company. The private company typically pays a certain price (or perhaps an annual fee) for the concession, but they do not have the authority to set parking fees. They often can add additional meters if necessary and of course will provide more 'robust' enforcement. I am not aware of the private companies assuming any obligations on the 'service' side of things.... From a political point of view, I imagine that it isdifficult to allow a private firm to charge whatever they thought the market would support (plus there are all sorts of social equity issues). This is a fundamental issue with transportation planning: is transportation infrastructure a public good or not? If yes, then how is it to be shared? And who is to pay for it? Zvi Walter Hook wrote: > Lee, > > Well, yes, this is the idea, to bring the price up to market rate. But > there is also a question in my mind about bringing parking under the control > of the state, and into a proper regulatory regime, and of using the money > for street improvements and maintenance. After all, you can theoretically > get at congestion charging through properly regulated parking. > > I should think that if a contract were structured with a private > concessionaire in an intelligent way, the parking concessionaire would be > perhaps obliged to provide some sort of public service (street cleaning, the > construction of street furniture, etc), in exchange for being allowed to > collect the parking revenues in a particular district. This would create an > incentive for the private firm to charge market rate for the parking. If > there were some sort of quality of service penalties for underperformance, > maybe this sort of PPP might lead to better public space ,just as > transmilenio led to better maintained buses. > > I was wondering if anything like this had been tried, to anyone's knowledge. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf > Of Lee Schipper > Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 6:13 PM > To: 'Global 'South' Sustainable Transport' > Subject: [sustran] Re: contracting out parking to private concessionaires > > In the days after the fall of Communism in Poland, this seemed to happen > everywhere. I remember pulling into my hotel in Katowice in my hosts > car..the parking guy appeared out of nowhere from a mobile home and > tried to charge my friend for setting me down. Lots of other places had > contracted out parking. > > > The point of street parking is that the value of the street is usual > MUCH more than is charged per hour for parking. A Swedish study (I think > Jan Owen Jansson) used a hedonic model to see > how much people in Stockholm valued open space, park benches, etc. From > that he concluded that the space for on-street parking was worth far > more per hour that was charged. (We saw this ourselves > in New York City yesterday, on street metered parking near Columbia U > for $0.50/hour, while it was $13 for the first hour in a garage) > > > Seems to me it is less important whether the street parking is > contracted or not, the main point is to make users pay the real market > value of the land! > > > > > Lee Schipper > Director of Research > EMBARQ, the WRI Center > for Sustainable Transport > 10 G St. NE > Washington DC, 20002 > +1202 729 7735 > FAX +1202 7297775 > www.embarq.wri.org > > >>>> "Walter Hook" 5/18/2007 6:04:15 PM >>> >>>> > Does anyone have any information/sources for the possibilities of > contracting out on-street parking to private concessionaires, the > benefits > and risks, etc? > > > > Best > > Walter > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org] On > Behalf > Of Carlos F. Pardo > Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 11:31 AM > To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport > Subject: [sustran] English version: Re: Islamic Bicycles for Iranian > Women > > > > The English version of the brief summary of that news is in: > > http://www.france24.com/france24Public/en/administration/afp-news.html?id=07 > > 0517085444.ykmz3ms5 > > 70517085444.ykmz3ms5&cat=null> &cat=null > > I guess the complete article is not in English. Pretty interesting! > > Best regards, > > > > Carlos F. Pardo > > > > ciclored wrote: > > The article is in spanish, maybe somebody can find the english > version... > > greetings, > > Carlos Cordero > > > > (PD/Agencia EFE).- Ir?n fabricar? "bicicletas isl?micas" para las > mujeres, > pensadas para disimular sus formas > > nte_velo_ayatolah_isl_7773> mediante una cabina que cubrir?a la mitad > del > cuerpo. > > "Este proyecto permite fomentar el deporte femenino", se?al? Elaheh > Sofali, > una de las responsables del proyecto, seg?n informa el diario > gubernamental > del pa?s. > > Faezeh Hach?mi, hija del ex presidente iran? Akbar Hach?mi Rafsandjani, > ex > responsable del deporte ol?mpico femenino, intent? el desarrollo del > ciclismo entre las mujeres en los a?os 90, pero est? decisi?n no tuvo > el > ?xito deseado por la oposici?n de los religiosos conservadores. > > EL TEL?N DE FONDO O EL VELO DE FONDO > > Como cada primavera, la campa?a contra la "vestimenta indecorosa" se > est? > ensa?ando con las mujeres, cuyos pa?uelos coloridos y cada vez m?s > escuetos > desaf?an la imposici?n del uniforme isl?mico. > > S?lo durante los cuatro primeros d?as de la campa?a, 150.000 personas > fueron > interpeladas en todo el pa?s, de las que 13 pasaron a disposici?n > judicial, > seg?n inform? el jefe de la polic?a, general Ismael Ahmadi-Moghaddam. > > El resto se libraron firmando compromisos de buena conducta que en caso > de > reincidencia se aportar?n ante el juez. Desde el arranque de la > campa?a, m?s > de 3.000 mujeres (una media de 150 al d?a) han sido detenidas y han > pasado > al menos unas horas en comisar?a > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Sujit Patwardhan > > To: edelman@greenidea.info ; Global 'South' > Sustainable Transport > > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 12:50 PM > > Subject: [sustran] Re: Oxygen supplies for India police > > > > > > Like the offer of a "last cigarette" to the man being walked to the > gallows....... > > -- > Sujit > > > > > > > > > On 5/17/07, Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory > wrote: > > > *Police stations across the Indian city of Calcutta have been equipped > with oxygen devices to enable police to offset the effects of > pollution > > * > > > -- > -------------------------------------------- > > Todd Edelman > Director > Green Idea Factory > > Korunn? 72 > CZ-10100 Praha 10 > Czech Republic > > ++420 605 915 970 > ++420 222 517 832 > Skype: toddedelman > > edelman@greenidea.info > > Green Idea Factory, > a member of World Carfree Network > www.worldcarfree.net > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to > join > the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The > yahoogroups > version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real > sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you > can). > Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing > countries > (the 'Global South'). > > > > > From litman at vtpi.org Sat May 19 08:04:59 2007 From: litman at vtpi.org (Todd Alexander Litman) Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 16:04:59 -0700 Subject: [sustran] VTPI NEWS - Spring 2007 Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20070518160446.06e99858@mail.islandnet.com> ----------- VTPI NEWS ----------- Victoria Transport Policy Institute "Efficiency - Equity - Clarity" ------------------------------------- Spring 2007 Vol. 10, No. 2 ----------------------------------- The Victoria Transport Policy Institute is an independent research organization dedicated to developing innovative solutions to transportation problems. The VTPI website (http://www.vtpi.org ) has many resources addressing a wide range of transport planning and policy issues. VTPI also provides consulting services. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ONLINE TDM ENCYCLOPEDIA ======================== The VTPI "Online TDM Encyclopedia" (http://www.vtpi.org/tdm ) is a comprehensive information resource to help identify and evaluate innovative management solutions to transport problems, available for free on our website. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ NEW DOCUMENTS ============== "Valuing Transit Service Quality Improvements: Considering Comfort and Convenience In Transport Project Evaluation" (http://www.vtpi.org/traveltime.pdf ) This paper investigates the value travelers place on qualitative factors such as comfort and convenience, and practical ways to incorporate these values in project evaluation. This can help identify cost-effective transit service improvements. "Transportation Market Distortions" (http://www.vtpi.org/distortions_BPJ.pdf ) This article, published in the Berkeley Planning Journal, investigates various market distortions that reduce travel options and underprice motor vehicle travel. It describes reforms that can correct these distortions, increasing transport system efficiency and equity. "Reassessing 'The Social Desirability of Urban Rail Transit Systems': Critique of Winston and Maheshri" (http://www.vtpi.org/warner.pdf ) This paper, by scientist Jay Warner, evaluates the statistical analysis used by Winston and Maheshri in their 2006 article, "The Social Desirability of Urban Rail Transit Systems," which concluded that most U.S. urban rail systems have a negative social desirability. This is a companion to our report "Evaluating Rail Transit Criticism" (http://www.vtpi.org/railcrit.pdf ). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ UPDATED DOCUMENTS ============== "Appropriate Response to Rising Fuel Prices: Citizens Should Demand, 'Raise My Prices Now!'" (http://www.vtpi.org/fuelprice.pdf ) This paper evaluates options for responding to rising fuel prices in terms of various planning objectives. Recent fuel price increases make this paper timely. "Socially Optimal Transport Prices and Markets; Principles, Strategies and Impacts" (http://www.vtpi.org/sotpm.pdf ) This paper investigates the socially optimal level of mobility, that is, the amount and mix of transport activity that consumers would choose in an efficient market that reflects the economic principles of efficient pricing, consumer options and optimal planning. It discusses market principles, identifies existing transport market distortions, estimates how correcting these distortions would affect mobility and investigates the economic impacts. This analysis indicates that in more optimal transport and land use markets, consumers would choose to drive significantly less, use alternative modes more, choose more accessible locations, and be better off overall as a result. "Transportation Cost and Benefit Analysis," (http://www.vtpi.org/tca ). Many of the chapters in this comprehensive study have been updated to include new information, particularly extensive transportation costing analysis by the research CE Delft (http://www.ce.nl/eng/index.html ), described below. Errata. the book, "Parking Management Best Practices" (http://www.planning.org/apastore ) contains an embarrassing error. Table 2-1 ('Typical Minimum Parking Standards') has measurement units of "square miles", which is totally inappropriate...the correct unit is "square meters". Unfortunately, the abbreviation "sq. m." was misunderstood when it was expanded, and we failed to catch the error in the final review. The corrected Table 2-1 is available on the VTPI website at http://www.vtpi.org/PMBP_Table2-1.pdf . ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ PUBLISHED ELSEWHERE Below are recently published reports and articles. 'Transportation Market Distortions,' in the "Berkeley Planning Journal," Volume 19, 2006, pp. 19-36; issue theme: "Sustainable Transport in the United States: From Rhetoric to Reality?" (http://www-dcrp.ced.berkeley.edu/bpj ); available at http://www.vtpi.org/distortions_BPJ.pdf . Auckland, City of Cars: Episode 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO3d13EOfRI ) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ UPCOMING EVENTS ================ VTPI will participate in these upcoming events: "Transportation Problem Solving for Healthy Communities" Roads, Rails, and Trails Lecture Series (http://uvic.commonenergy.org/wiki/Roads,_Rails,_and_Trails ) 19:00 (7:00pm), Tuesday, May 22nd, Engineering and Computer Science Building, University of Victoria, British Columbia. "Sustainable TransForum" (http://www.sustainabletransforum.ca ) May 28-29, 2007, Metro Toronto Convention Centre Over 30 speakers from across Canada and around the world will cover topics such as building sustainable communities, encouraging more active forms of transportation and transit use, using market based strategies to affect change, adapting infrastructure to address the challenges of climate change, and enhancing the efficiency of all modes of transportation. Sponsored by the Ontario Ministry of Transportation. "Making Compact Development Work for Everyone: Full Day Smart Growth" Coalition for Smart Growth, Lancaster County, PA Forum (http://www.coalitionforsmartgrowth.org/summit07.html ) This conference will provide practical solutions and guidance to help decision makers, officials, planners, developers and community members for implementing the recommendations of Balance and assuring the future of Lancaster county balances growth, conservation and affordable housing and community development. "Transportation Land Use Impacts" June 4, 2007 - Vancouver, BC (http://www.apeg.bc.ca/prodev/events/transport_land_use_van.html ) This workshop describes practical methods for comprehensive evaluation of land use impacts resulting from transportation policy and planning decisions. It will explore these issues in the context of concerns about the costs of sprawl and the potential of smart growth development policies. For more information or to register for this session, please visit: "Parking Management Best Practices" June 5, 2007 - Vancouver, BC (http://www.apeg.bc.ca/prodev/events/parking_mgmt.html ) This workshop will investigate various parking management strategies and how they can be used to support transportation and land use planning objectives. It will discuss problems with current parking planning practices, discusses the costs of parking facilities and the savings that can result from improved management, describes specific parking management strategies and how they can be implemented, describes how parking planning decisions affect transportation and land use patterns, discusses parking management planning and evaluation, and describes how to develop the optimal parking management program in a particular situation. For more information or to register for this session, please visit: "Transportation and Air Quality" workshop at the Metropolis Commission Meeting on Urban Mobility Management in Seoul, Korea, June 11-15. Participants will also be able to experience for themselves Seoul's world-famous public transport and urban livability improvements (http://www.nctr.usf.edu/jpt/pdf/JPT%208-5%20Pucher.pdf ). Metropolis (http://www.metropolis.org ) is an international association of large cities. It is also the metropolitan section of the United Cities & Local Government organization (UCLG). Its mission is to promote international cooperation and exchanges among members, i.e., local and metropolitan governments. "How To Measure Access: Definition, Measurement And Consequences Of A Changed Set Of Objectives In Transportation Designed To Meet The Needs Of People" European Science Foundation Exploratory Workshop (http://www.esf.org/activities/exploratory-workshops/social-sciences-scss/workshops-detail.html?ew=4854 ) Sept 27-28, Dresden, Germany ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ USEFUL RESOURCES ================= "How to Handle Parking" Transit-Friendly Development: Newsletter of Transit-Oriented Development and Land Use In New Jersey (http://policy.rutgers.edu/vtc/tod/newsletter/vol3-num1/TODParking.html ) This article summarizes interviews with four experts discussing parking demand, design, financing, and management. FHWA (2007), Advanced Parking Management Systems: A Cross-Cutting Study, Report FHWA-JPO-07-011, Intelligent Transportation Systems (www.its.dot.gov), FHWA, USDOT; available at www.its.dot.gov/jpodocs/repts_te/14318.htm. Manual For Streets (www.manualforstreets.org.uk) The Manual for Streets, published by the UK Department for Transport and Communities and Local Government, provides practical guidance for balancing multiple, often conflicting objectives in roadway planning and management. This document: ? Creates a new classification of roads which incorporates multi-functional streets such as 'main roads'. ? Uses a new hierarchy of users, which places pedestrians at the top. ? Proposes a new design process, designed to cater for engineering concerns about risk when adopting new design approaches. ? Summarizes research into the relationship between street geometry, speed and so road crashes. ? Summarizes extensive design guidance in one volume. David Banister (2007), "Visioning and Backcasting for UK Transport Policy" Bartlett School of Planning, University College London (www.ucl.ac.uk); at www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucft696/vibat2.html. This research project involves estimating emission reductions needed to achieve 60% reduction in climate change emissions from baseline by 2030, and evaluates various packages of policies to achieve such reductions, including new technologies and travel reduction incentives. The research organization CE Delft has performed extensive analysis of transportation costs and pricing reforms, available free on their website (http://www.ce.nl/eng/index.html ). These include: ? "Infrastructure Expenditures and Costs: Practical Guidelines to Calculate Total Infrastructure Costs for Five Modes of Transport," for the European Commission (www.ec.europa.eu). ? "Marginal Costs of Infrastructure Use ? Towards a Simplified Approach." ? "The Price of Transport: Overview of the Social Costs of Transport." John Pucher (2007), Cycling for Everyone: Key to Public and Political Support, keynote address at the 2007 National Bike Summit, League of American Bicyclists, Washington, DC, March 16, 2007; available at www.policy.rutgers.edu/faculty/pucher/BikeSummit2007COMP_Mar25.pdf. John Pucher and Ralph Buehler (2006), ?Why Canadians Cycle More Than Americans: A Comparative Analysis Of Bicycling Trends And Policies,? Transport Policy, Vol. 13, May, 2006, pp. 265?279; available at www.policy.rutgers.edu/faculty/pucher/TransportPolicyArticle.pdf. Ethan M. Berke, Laura M. Gottlieb, Anne Vernez Moudon, Eric B. Larson (2007), "Protective Association Between Neighborhood Walkability and Depression in Older Men," Journal of the American Geriatrics Society (www.blackwell-synergy.com), Vol. 55, No. 4, pp. 526?533. This article reports on a study in Seattle of older men, and walking. Not only did men living in walkable neighbourhoods get more exercise, but, mile for mile (after controlling for distance walked), their walks brought them into more contact with others, thereby reducing their chance of experiencing depression. CCAP (2005), Transportation Emissions Guidebook: Land Use, Transit & Transportation Demand Management, Center of Clean Air Policy (www.ccap.org/guidebook). This Guidebook provides information on various smart growth and mobility management strategies, including rules-of-thumb estimates of VMT and emission reductions. Each part of the guidebook contains a series of policy briefs which include information about each strategy, including an overview, cobenefits, implementation, case studies and information resources. It includes a spreadsheet model that calculates total emission reductions from specific combinations of these strategies. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please let us know if you have comments or questions about any information in this newsletter, or if you would like to be removed from our email list. And please pass this newsletter on to others who may find it useful. Sincerely, Todd Alexander Litman Victoria Transport Policy Institute (www.vtpi.org) litman@vtpi.org Phone & Fax 250-360-1560 1250 Rudlin Street, Victoria, BC, V8V 3R7, CANADA ?Efficiency - Equity - Clarity? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070518/d10096fc/attachment.html From edelman at greenidea.info Sat May 19 08:36:57 2007 From: edelman at greenidea.info (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory) Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 01:36:57 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Re: contracting out parking to private concessionaires In-Reply-To: <464E2AFA.5080502@inro.ca> References: <00bb01c7999b$66b75520$3601a8c0@DFJLYL81> <464E2AFA.5080502@inro.ca> Message-ID: <464E3899.1040803@greenidea.info> Hi, Let's please not forget that streets are not just transportation infrastructure... - T Zvi Leve wrote: [...] > This is a > fundamental issue with transportation planning: is transportation > infrastructure a public good or not? If yes, then how is it to be > shared? And who is to pay for it? [...] -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman edelman@greenidea.info Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net From jbs at u.washington.edu Sun May 20 12:31:43 2007 From: jbs at u.washington.edu (Jerry Schneider) Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 20:31:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sustran] New Jersey Personal Rapid Transit (PRT) study - final report Message-ID: Requested by NJ legislature for possible action http://faculty.washington.edu/jbs/itrans/big/PRTfinalreport.pdf 144 pages, 1.3 megs, quite comprehensive, well-illustrated From arulgreen at yahoo.com Thu May 10 19:10:10 2007 From: arulgreen at yahoo.com (arul rathinam) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 03:10:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sustran] Draft master plan for Chennai fails to address key issues Message-ID: <884860.86086.qm@web51111.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Draft master plan for Chennai fails to address key issues The Hindu,9 May 2007, Special Correspondent "Official panel must participate in public hearings" http://www.hindu.com/2007/05/09/stories/2007050905420100.htm CHENNAI: The draft second master plan for Chennai, prepared by the Chennai Metropolitan Development Authority, has failed to address vital issues in depth, including regulation of real estate business, livelihood and shelter security for the poor, environment and sustainable resource management, said speakers at an interactive session here on Tuesday. They said that if the vision of the CMDA was to make Chennai a prime metropolis, which will be more liveable, economically vibrant and environmentally sustainable, stress should be laid on these vital issues in the final document. Though the Government was conducting public consultations, no purpose would be served if the suggestions were not included in the final proposal. Consensus among the speakers was that the Government should appoint an official committee to participate in the public hearings. S. Ramadoss, Pasumai Thayagam founder, which organised the session, said the organisation would prepare its own master plan after conducting similar public consultations and submit it to the Government. M.G. Devasahayam, managing trustee, SUSTAIN, said the master plan should be prepared in a participatory and consultative manner. Tara Murali, Managing Trustee, CAG, said there were still problems with draft plan in the matter of presentation, contents and public participation. The language used in the document was too technical and was not user-friendly. There were several issues that were to be debated and addressed, but did not figure in the draft plan. http://www.hindu.com/2007/05/09/stories/2007050905420100.htm ____________________________________________________________________________________ Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 From Gmenckhoff at worldbank.org Sun May 20 04:46:00 2007 From: Gmenckhoff at worldbank.org (Gmenckhoff at worldbank.org) Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 15:46:00 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: contracting out parking to private concessionaires In-Reply-To: <00bb01c7999b$66b75520$3601a8c0@DFJLYL81> Message-ID: Walter, About 10 years ago, the Argentine city of C?rdoba concessioned public parking in its CBD to a private concessionaire. To replace on-street parking, the private operator habilitated some empty lots for off-street parking. Fines were issued in collaboration with the police. I do not know whether the scheme is still in operation. Cheers, Gerhard "Walter Hook" To Sent by: "'Global 'South' Sustainable Transport'" sustran-discuss -bounces+gmenck cc hoff=worldbank. org@list.jca.ap Subject c.org [sustran] Re: contracting out parking to private concessionaires 05/18/2007 06:25 PM Please respond to Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Lee, Well, yes, this is the idea, to bring the price up to market rate. But there is also a question in my mind about bringing parking under the control of the state, and into a proper regulatory regime, and of using the money for street improvements and maintenance. After all, you can theoretically get at congestion charging through properly regulated parking. I should think that if a contract were structured with a private concessionaire in an intelligent way, the parking concessionaire would be perhaps obliged to provide some sort of public service (street cleaning, the construction of street furniture, etc), in exchange for being allowed to collect the parking revenues in a particular district. This would create an incentive for the private firm to charge market rate for the parking. If there were some sort of quality of service penalties for underperformance, maybe this sort of PPP might lead to better public space ,just as transmilenio led to better maintained buses. I was wondering if anything like this had been tried, to anyone's knowledge. -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of Lee Schipper Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 6:13 PM To: 'Global 'South' Sustainable Transport' Subject: [sustran] Re: contracting out parking to private concessionaires In the days after the fall of Communism in Poland, this seemed to happen everywhere. I remember pulling into my hotel in Katowice in my hosts car..the parking guy appeared out of nowhere from a mobile home and tried to charge my friend for setting me down. Lots of other places had contracted out parking. The point of street parking is that the value of the street is usual MUCH more than is charged per hour for parking. A Swedish study (I think Jan Owen Jansson) used a hedonic model to see how much people in Stockholm valued open space, park benches, etc. From that he concluded that the space for on-street parking was worth far more per hour that was charged. (We saw this ourselves in New York City yesterday, on street metered parking near Columbia U for $0.50/hour, while it was $13 for the first hour in a garage) Seems to me it is less important whether the street parking is contracted or not, the main point is to make users pay the real market value of the land! Lee Schipper Director of Research EMBARQ, the WRI Center for Sustainable Transport 10 G St. NE Washington DC, 20002 +1202 729 7735 FAX +1202 7297775 www.embarq.wri.org >>> "Walter Hook" 5/18/2007 6:04:15 PM >>> Does anyone have any information/sources for the possibilities of contracting out on-street parking to private concessionaires, the benefits and risks, etc? Best Walter -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of Carlos F. Pardo Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 11:31 AM To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Subject: [sustran] English version: Re: Islamic Bicycles for Iranian Women The English version of the brief summary of that news is in: http://www.france24.com/france24Public/en/administration/afp-news.html?id=07 0517085444.ykmz3ms5 &cat=null I guess the complete article is not in English. Pretty interesting! Best regards, Carlos F. Pardo ciclored wrote: The article is in spanish, maybe somebody can find the english version... greetings, Carlos Cordero (PD/Agencia EFE).- Ir?n fabricar? "bicicletas isl?micas" para las mujeres, pensadas para disimular sus formas mediante una cabina que cubrir?a la mitad del cuerpo. "Este proyecto permite fomentar el deporte femenino", se?al? Elaheh Sofali, una de las responsables del proyecto, seg?n informa el diario gubernamental del pa?s. Faezeh Hach?mi, hija del ex presidente iran? Akbar Hach?mi Rafsandjani, ex responsable del deporte ol?mpico femenino, intent? el desarrollo del ciclismo entre las mujeres en los a?os 90, pero est? decisi?n no tuvo el ?xito deseado por la oposici?n de los religiosos conservadores. EL TEL?N DE FONDO O EL VELO DE FONDO Como cada primavera, la campa?a contra la "vestimenta indecorosa" se est? ensa?ando con las mujeres, cuyos pa?uelos coloridos y cada vez m?s escuetos desaf?an la imposici?n del uniforme isl?mico. S?lo durante los cuatro primeros d?as de la campa?a, 150.000 personas fueron interpeladas en todo el pa?s, de las que 13 pasaron a disposici?n judicial, seg?n inform? el jefe de la polic?a, general Ismael Ahmadi-Moghaddam. El resto se libraron firmando compromisos de buena conducta que en caso de reincidencia se aportar?n ante el juez. Desde el arranque de la campa?a, m?s de 3.000 mujeres (una media de 150 al d?a) han sido detenidas y han pasado al menos unas horas en comisar?a ----- Original Message ----- From: Sujit Patwardhan To: edelman@greenidea.info ; Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 12:50 PM Subject: [sustran] Re: Oxygen supplies for India police Like the offer of a "last cigarette" to the man being walked to the gallows....... -- Sujit On 5/17/07, Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory wrote: *Police stations across the Indian city of Calcutta have been equipped with oxygen devices to enable police to offset the effects of pollution * > -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman edelman@greenidea.info Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). -- ------------------------------------------------------ Sujit Patwardhan sujit@vsnl.com sujitjp@gmail.com "Yamuna", ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007 India Tel: 25537955 ----------------------------------------------------- Hon. Secretary: Parisar www.parisar.org ------------------------------------------------------ Founder Member: PTTF (Pune Traffic & Transportation Forum) www.pttf.net ------------------------------------------------------ _____ -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). __________ NOD32 2276 (20070518) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com _____ -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). __________ NOD32 2276 (20070518) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From edelman at greenidea.info Mon May 21 08:58:55 2007 From: edelman at greenidea.info (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 01:58:55 +0200 Subject: [sustran] The Road to Curitiba Message-ID: <4650E0BF.2060601@greenidea.info> Long article from NY Times about the successes, failures and politics of the well-known transformation of Curitiba... - T *** The Road to Curitiba by Arthur Lubow On Saturday mornings, children gather to paint and draw in the main downtown shopping street of Curitiba, in southern Brazil. More than just a charming tradition, the child?s play commemorates a key victory in a hard-fought, ongoing war. Back in 1972, the new mayor of the city, an architect and urban planner named Jaime Lerner, ordered a lightning transformation of six blocks of the street into a pedestrian zone. The change was recommended in a master plan for the city that was approved six years earlier, but fierce objections from the downtown merchants blocked its implementation. Lerner instructed his secretary of public works to institute the change quickly and asked how long it would take. ?He said he needed four months,? Lerner recalled recently. ?I said, ?Forty-eight hours.? He said, ?You?re crazy.? I said, ?Yes, I?m crazy, but do it in 48 hours.? ? The municipal authorities were able to accomplish it in three days, beginning on a Friday night and installing paving, lighting, planters and furniture by the end of the day on Monday. ?Being a very weak mayor, if I start to do it and take too long, everyone could stop it through a juridical demand,? Lerner went on to explain. ?If they stop the work, it?s finished. I had to do it very fast, at least in part. Because we had discussed it a great deal. Sometimes they have to have a demonstration effect.? The demonstration worked. Within days, impressed by the increase in their business, the once-recalcitrant shop owners were demanding an extension of the traffic-free district. Some diehard motorists, however, sulked. Lerner heard that a group of them were planning to disregard the prohibition and drive their cars into the street on a Saturday morning. So he contrived an unbreachable defense. With the cooperation of the city?s teachers and a donation of rolls of newsprint and boxes of paint, on that morning he assembled several hundred children in the street, where they sat and drew pictures. ?It was to say, ?This is being done for children and their parents ? don?t even think of putting cars there,? ? he told me. The sputtered-out protest was the last resistance to the pedestrianization of the shopping area, which has since expanded from the original 6 blocks to encompass about 15 today. ?Of course, this was very emblematic,? Lerner recounted. ?We were trying to say, ?This city is not for cars.? When many mayors at the time were planning for individual cars, we were countervailing.? He observed that it was emblematic in another way also: ?From that point, they said, ?If he could do this in 72 hours, he can do anything.? It was a good strategy.? An opening salvo, the creation of the pedestrian zone inaugurated a series of programs by Lerner and his colleagues that made Curitiba a famous model of late-20th-century urban planning. In the early 1970s, when Brazil was welcoming any industry, no matter how toxic its byproducts, Curitiba decided to admit only nonpolluters; to accommodate them, it constructed an industrial district that reserved so much land for green space that it was derided as a ?golf course? until it succeeded in filling up with major businesses while its counterparts in other Latin American cities were flagging. Through the creation of two dozen recreational parks, many with lakes to catch runoff in low-lying areas that flood periodically, Curitiba managed, at a time of explosive population growth, to increase its green areas from 5 square feet per inhabitant to an astounding 560 square feet. The city promoted ?green? policies before they were fashionable and called itself ?the ecological capital of Brazil? in the 1980s, when there were no rivals for such a title. Today, Curitiba remains a pilgrimage destination for urbanists fascinated by its bus system, garbage-recycling program and network of parks. It is the answer to what might otherwise be a hypothetical question: How would cities look if urban planners, not politicians, took control? Although the children who paint on Saturday mornings are no longer needed to protect the downtown shopping street from cars, the battle to keep Curitiba green is never-ending. Indeed, some say it is going badly these days. The rivers, once crystalline, reek of untreated sewage. The bus system that has won admirers throughout the world appears to be nearing capacity; what?s more, Curitiba, by some measures, has a higher per capita ownership of private cars than any city in Brazil ? even exceeding Bras?lia, a city that was designed for cars. Curitiba?s garbage-recycling rate has been declining over the last six or seven years, and the only landfill in the municipal region will be full by the end of 2008. Jorge Wilheim, the S?o Paulo architect who drafted Curitiba?s master plan in 1965, says: ?When we made the plan, the population was 350,000. We thought in a few years it would reach 500,000. But it has grown much bigger.? The municipality of Curitiba today has 1.8 million people, and the population of the metropolitan region is 3.2 million. ?I know the plan of Curitiba is very famous, and I am the first to enjoy it, but that was in ?65,? Wilheim continues. ?The metropolitan region must have a new vision.? It is often said of Curitiba that it doesn?t feel like Brazil. Depending on who?s speaking, that can be intended as a compliment or a criticism. Populated by European immigrants in the 19th century, Curitiba has a demographic makeup that is largely more fair-skinned and well educated than that of Brazil?s tropical north. It is also unusually affluent. Unlike S?o Paulo, with its startling extremes of wealth and poverty, much of Curitiba to an American eye looks familiarly middle class. Even the scruffy used-car lots have a seediness reminiscent of Los Angeles, not the Rio de Janeiro of ?City of God.? The city, especially the large downtown, is very clean, thanks to municipal sanitation trucks and the freelance carrinheiros, or cart people, who pick up trash to sell at recycling centers. During my visit to Curitiba in March, the city was the host of an international biodiversity conference. While I hadn?t known of it when I scheduled my trip, the coincidence was about as remarkable as finding a design show to greet you in Milan or a wine festival under way in Bordeaux. Environmentalism is the heart of Curitiba?s self-identity, and the municipal government is always devising new schemes that showcase the brand. The rest of the world has caught on, if not yet caught up. Ecological awareness is architecturally trendy. This year?s winner of the prestigious Pritzker Prize is Richard Rogers , a longtime proponent of mass transit, lower energy consumption and ecologically sensitive buildings. Commercially, real-estate developers from Beijing to Santa Monica are brandishing their LEED certificates (Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design) as they market condominiums and office suites to green-minded consumers. While it is unusually ambitious, the 25-year plan that Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg proposed last month for New York is part of an international wave of recognition that cities must live more responsibly, especially when it comes to their effusions of climate-warming gases and their excretions of mountains of solid waste. Bloomberg?s most contentious idea ? a ?congestion tax? on cars entering traffic-clogged districts during peak hours ? has been working for more than four years in London (and more than 30 years in Singapore) to increase the numbers of people using public transportation. Interestingly, Curitiba adopted an opposite approach, brandishing a carrot instead of a stick. The city planners suspected that public transportation would attract more users if it was more attractive. And that reasonable assumption turned out to be correct. The efficient buses that zip across the Curitiba metropolitan region are the most conspicuously un-Brazilian feature of the city. Instead of descending into subway stations, Curitibanos file into ribbed glass tubes that are boarding platforms for the rapid-transit buses. (The glass tubes resemble the ?fosteritos? that Norman Foster later designed for the metro in Bilbao, Spain.) Curitiba has five express-bus avenues, with a sixth in development, to allow you to traverse the city with speedy dispatch. In the early 1970s, most cities investing in public transportation were building subways or light-rail networks. Curitiba lacked the resources and the time to install a train system. Lerner says that compared with the Curitiba bus network, a light rail system would have required 20 times the financial investment; a subway would have cost 100 times as much. ?We tried to understand, what is a subway?? he recalls. ?It has to have speed, comfort, reliability and good frequency. But why does it have to be underground? Underground is very expensive. With dedicated lanes and not stopping on every corner, we could do it with buses.? Because widening the avenues would have required a lengthy and costly expropriation process, the planners came up with a ?trinary? system that embraced three parallel thoroughfares: a large central avenue dedicated to two-way rapid-bus traffic (flanked by slow lanes for cars making short local trips) and, a block over on each side, an avenue for fast one-way automobile traffic. When the bus system was inaugurated, it transported 54,000 passengers daily. That number has ballooned to 2.3 million, in large part because of innovations that permit passengers to board and exit rapidly. In 1992, Lerner and his team established the tubular boarding platforms with fare clerks and turnstiles, so that the mechanisms for paying and boarding are separated, as in a subway. To carry more people at a time, the city introduced flexible-hinged articulated buses that open their doors wide for rapid entry and egress; then, when the buses couldn?t cope with the demand, the Lerner team called for bi-articulated buses of 88 feet with two hinges (and a 270-passenger capacity), which Volvo manufactured at Curitiba?s request. Comparing the capacities of bus and subway systems, Lerner reels off numbers with a promoter?s panache. ?A normal bus in a normal street conducts x passengers a day,? he told me. ?With a dedicated lane, it can transport 2x a day. If you have an articulated bus in a dedicated lane, 2.7x passengers. If you add a boarding tube, you can achieve 3.4x passengers, and if you add double articulated buses, you can have four times as many passengers as a normal bus in a normal street.? He says that with an arrival frequency of 30 seconds, you can transport 36,000 passengers every hour ? which is about the same load he would have achieved with a subway. Unfortunately, the trends of bus usage are down. While the system has expanded to cover 13 of the cities in the metropolitan region, charging a flat fare that in practice subsidizes the trips of the mostly poorer workers who live in outlying areas, bus ridership within the Curitiba municipality has been declining. ?We are losing bus passengers and gaining cars,? says Luis Fragomeni, a Curitiba urban planner. He observes that, like potential users of public transport everywhere, many Curitibanos view it as noisy, crowded and unsafe. Undermining the thinking behind the master plan, even those who live alongside the high-density rapid-bus corridors are buying cars. ?The licensing of cars in Curitiba is 2.5 times higher than babies being born in Curitiba,? he says. ?Trouble.? Because cars are status symbols, attempts to discourage people from buying them are probably futile. ?We say, ?Have your own car, but keep it in the garage and use it only on weekends,? ? Fragomeni remarks. And the public-transport system must be upgraded continuously to remain an appealing alternative to private vehicles. ?That competition is very hard,? says Paulo Schmidt, the president of URBS, the rapid-bus system. During peak hours, buses on the main routes are already arriving at almost 30-second intervals; any more buses, and they would back up. While acknowledging his iconoclasm in questioning the sufficiency of Curitiba?s trademark bus network, Schmidt nevertheless says a light-rail system is needed to complement it. When it comes to modifying human behavior, persuading urban dwellers to sort their garbage can be harder than coaxing them to garage their cars. Lerner and his allies have claimed that they have succeeded beyond the dreams of environmentalists in far more eco-friendly countries, including Japan and Sweden. Curitiba was a pioneer in separating recyclable materials, with its ?Garbage That Is Not Garbage? program, inaugurated in 1989. (The city leaders have a flair for slogans.) Recycling has assumed a new urgency, because the entire metropolitan area contains only one landfill, and it will be exhausted by the end of next year. Jos? Antonio Andreguetto, Curitiba?s secretary for the environment, told me that 22 percent of the city?s garbage is being separated for recycling, a rate that has been declining over the last half-dozen years; he says he hopes to bring the number up to 34 percent by the end of the current mayor?s term in 2008. Lerner says the numbers have been eroding until recently because some recent mayors haven?t emphasized the issue, but he maintains that the recycling rate in Curitiba is still the highest in the world. It is very hard to determine how accurate the estimates are for garbage separation. ?Curitiba began early to look at recycling garbage ? that is true, and it is good,? says Teresa Urban, a local journalist and environmental activist. ?But the separation of recycled garbage is a little part of all the garbage we have here. There is no tradition of participation here. The mayor sold to the people the idea that this is a wonderful city. And the people think, This is wonderful, I don?t have to do anything.? Like other left-wing critics, Urban traces the lack of participation to an original sin. The progressive urban planning of Curitiba was not initiated by a democratic process; it was set in motion by the military dictatorship that seized power in 1964 and ruled Brazil until the mid-?80s. Its environmentalism is rooted in authoritarianism. ?They didn?t have to confront the public through public participation, and the decisions could be made by urban planners ? architects acting as politicians,? says Clara Iraz??bal, who has written a book comparing the urban planning experiences of Curitiba and Portland, Ore. The city that has been called the most forward-looking in the Western Hemisphere is an outgrowth of an era that many Brazilians prefer not to look back on. Jaime Lerner, the archangel of the Curitiba green movement, was anointed by the dragons of war. Always an anomaly, Curitiba became a model for our day by defying the spirit of the time. In the late 1950s and early 1960s, urban developers throughout the world, influenced by Le Corbusier and his followers, were remodeling cities to facilitate the easy circulation of people in automobiles. But in Curitiba, an informal group of young architects, urban planners and civil engineers at the city?s Federal University of Paran??, which is the oldest university in Brazil, objected more effectively to the mayor?s widening of streets and a proposed highway bypass that threatened the historic city center. As luck would have it, one of these outraged civil engineers, Fanchette Rischbieter, was married to the chairman of the government-controlled investment company that was financing the construction of roads in Paran??, the largely agricultural state of which Curitiba is the capital. ?I said, ?It doesn?t make sense, my wife and her friends are against these people ? why don?t we make a plan?? ? Karlos Rischbieter recalls. Selected by the city, Jorge Wilheim came up with a master plan that concentrated high-density construction along two long rapid-transit axes that skirted the center. At least as important as his transportation and zoning recommendations was Wilheim?s request for an urban-planning institute to implement them. In retrospect, the enthusiastic and talented staff of the Institute of Urban Research and Planning of Curitiba, which is known by its Portuguese acronym, Ippuc, ensured the success of Curitiba?s redevelopment. Still, there was a lag of five years from the formal adoption of the master plan in 1966 until its implementation, which began with the governor?s selection of Lerner, who was president of Ippuc, to be mayor in 1971. Wilheim the planner needed Lerner the doer to turn abstract ideas into inventive reality. Curitiba has been studied more than copied (one notable exception is a Curitiba-style bus system in Bogot??, Colombia) because unlike Lerner, most mayors stumble over political obstacles. ?I always tell a story of the ?80s,? Rischbieter says. ?A friend from S?o Paulo came with his wife and son to visit Curitiba. He did not know this city. I took my car and showed him Curitiba for three hours. When I left him at the hotel, he said, ?What did you show people before Jaime Lerner?? ? A spark plug of ideas, Lerner, the son of Jewish immigrants from Poland, combines salesmanship and pragmatism. Following his mayoral terms, he won election twice as governor of Paran?? State, retiring in 2002 at the age of 65 to devote himself to his architecture firm and to worldwide speaking engagements espousing green urban planning. He has a large head that seems to rest directly on wide shoulders; knowing his passion for recycling, you might almost believe that his thick-set body has been through a compactor. He radiates a highly compressed and infectious energy, with a can-do assertiveness that borders on arrogance. ?He never asked if something was good or not,? Rischbieter remarks. ?He would say, ?I?ll go do it.? I would say, ?You have to go ask people and get their opinions.? He would say, ?No, they won?t agree with me, and it has to be done.? He is not a political animal, he is a dictator.? Rischbieter admires Lerner; others, however, using the same descriptive terminology, do not. In the rough-and-tumble of Brazilian politics, it has become customary for supporters of populist parties to disparage Lerner (who personifies his talented team to allies and foes alike) as a creature of the dictatorship. According to this argument, the generals detested politicians; they admired technical experts. In Curitiba, they found a showplace to display their accomplishments to the world. ?The military are addicted to planning,? says Fragomeni, who has an ambivalent attitude toward Lerner. ?If they don?t plan, they don?t go forward. They invested in Curitiba. Mr. Lerner may like it or not. His continuity was ensured by the military government.? For his part, Lerner says that he had a far harder time with the military dictatorship than he did later, as an elected official. Under the military regime, he served at the pleasure of the governor and the state assembly. ?I could be fired the next day,? he says. ?Being an elected mayor, I was stronger. Nobody could fire me.? In two terms (1971-75 and 1979-83) under the military regime, and then in an elected third term (1989-92) after the restoration of democracy, Lerner translated the master plan into concrete and leafy reality. Like an impatient muralist, he worked on a wide scope at high speed. ?I know cities that plant 10,000 trees, and they make a whole festival,? he told me. ?We planted a million trees. I am obsessed with scale.? He sought to make a livable city; over time that segued smoothly into an ecological city. Parks initially intended as recreational areas would also absorb floodwaters and extract carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. Lerner used tax breaks to wheedle landowners into turning over portions of their property, which typically had little value at the time. In the rocky northern district, he converted one flooded quarry into the Wire Opera House, which has become a city icon, and another into the Free University of the Environment, a non-degree-granting institution that educates people on ecological issues. He transformed land that was serving as a refuse dump into a botanical garden; named for Fanchette Rischbieter, who died in 1989, it features a duck pond, French parterres and a classic Victorian greenhouse. The architecture in all three of these parks is less noteworthy for its formal design than for its building materials ? salvaged telephone poles, mesh grating, metal tubing ? and the speed of construction. From blueprint drafts to opening night, the Wire Opera House took about two months to complete. Lerner refers to such projects as ?urban acupuncture? that energizes the development process. When I would ask people if they thought Lerner could have accomplished his reforms under a democracy, people sympathetic to both Lerner and the military (like Rischbieter) or critical of both (like Urban) would say no; but most, professing admiration for Lerner but distaste for the military, said the dictatorship was not a precondition for his success. Lerner and Wilheim were emphatic on this point. ?Not being a traditional politician helped me a lot,? Lerner told me. Nonetheless, by entering public life, even a self-professed apolitical man becomes a political actor. What struck me was the way in which the return of democracy changed Lerner?s core constituency. Under the generals, he was vulnerable mainly to the business community. That is why, for instance, he had to implement the pedestrian mall so quickly: if the business class lost confidence in him, the state assembly would have insisted that he be replaced. In a democratic Brazil, Lerner and his successors are threatened not just by the rich, but perhaps even more acutely by the poor ? politically, by populist parties, and demographically, by the inexorable population growth. In politics, the pendulum has swung, as it always does. For the first time in 15 years, the winning candidate in Curitiba?s last mayoral election, in 2004, was not directly associated with the Lerner Group, the firm of 10 architects and planners that Lerner runs. Still, the new administration is continuing on the path that Lerner blazed. More worrisome for Curitiba?s future is the demographic trend. Over the past half-century, the state of Paran?? underwent a radical change, from a labor-intensive coffee economy to a mechanized agriculture of soybeans. Hundreds of thousands lost their jobs. Many of the dispossessed have relocated to the Curitiba metropolitan region, which in Brazil is famously livable. Every day, more keep coming. The ?invasions? of homeless people onto unoccupied land spill like ink stains over the neatly outlined development maps of the urban planners, not only in Curitiba but across Brazil. One Saturday morning, I visited the neighborhood of Nossa Senhora da Luz, where a small group of people waited with sacks or improvised carts of garbage. The hardscrabble community dates from an early invasion of the 1970s. Today the streets are paved and the houses are solid cinder block, but unlike downtown Curitiba, here it is immediately apparent from the bleak, scrubby streetscape and the dark skins of the populace that you are in a third-world setting. I was there to observe one of 79 exchange centers that the municipality of Curitiba has established in communities where the streets are too narrow or too bumpy for large garbage trucks to circulate. Instead, people can carry their trash to biweekly collection sites and trade four pounds of garbage for one pound of vegetables. Mostly they bring plastic, paper and cardboard. At another site, run by the community council, more valuable aluminum cans are collected in return for money, and at yet another, organic material is traded for bus tokens. Compared with middle-class people, the residents of this neighborhood do not generate so much recyclable material; much of what they trade they prospect for around the city. Curitiba may be more successful in enlisting poor citizens to function as part-time carrinheiros than in enlightening better-off residents on their civic responsibilities. The largest working-class housing development within Curitiba is called Bairro Novo, or ?new neighborhood.? It was developed hurriedly, you might say frantically, after a band of 3,000 people, at the start of a three-day holiday weekend in September 1992, invaded a nearby parcel of vacant land where a disused railroad line once operated. This was the same sort of stealth tactic that Lerner employed two decades earlier to pedestrianize the shopping street, but now it was being used against him ? coordinated, he maintains, by his political opponents, who controlled the governorship then as they do now. Since the security forces are directed by the state of Paran?? and not the city, there was no way Lerner could stop the so-called Ferrovila (or railroad town) invasion. He says that he was especially infuriated because his administration had been researching the creation of a much larger development on the same land, housing 10 times as many people, as well as establishing schools and other social services. Instead, his team began planning the Bairro Novo on a parcel of land that was slated for development a decade or two later. There are 80,000 people living in Bairro Novo today. For a while, the illegal squats died off. ?If you have a good alternative, you can prevent the invasions,? Lerner says. Recently, invasions have started up again. ?There is a feeling that it may be politically motivated,? says Fragomeni, the urban planner, who served until March as president of Ippuc. He reports that in Curitiba today, there are 13,000 households in invasion settlements, 6,000 of them in ecologically fragile areas. Squatters often occupy land by rivers, both to obtain a water source and because, by law, the riverbanks can?t be developed. ?The land is forbidden, and it is free at the same time,? says Urban, the environmental activist. Raw sewage from these settlements flows directly into the rivers. Fragomeni says that fewer than 70 percent of Curitiba households have sewer connections. The current administration, led by Mayor Beto Richa (who was endorsed by Lerner but is not professionally associated with him), is trying to alleviate the problem with a new program to clean up the water basin of the sadly polluted Barigu? River: relocating people to housing that is a little farther from the river, replanting vegetation on the banks and linking houses to the sewage system. The program to reclaim the Barigu? basin was galvanized by the most recent invasion in February, when 1,500 people seized land near Ferrovila in Barigu? Park and hit a sensitive nerve. Their encampment is provocatively close to Ecoville, a controversial upper-middle-class development that arose in the mid-?90s along one of the rapid-bus corridors. As Lerner acidly observes of Ecoville, ?I don?t like this project, because it is not ?eco? and it is not ?ville.? ? Ecoville is a self-contained development in which tall buildings loom over patches of vegetation and looping roads. It?s an unconvincing version of the discredited Corbusian model of ?the city in the park,? an idea that the developers self-consciously reference by naming one of these buildings ?Le Corbusier.? Many buildings have been labeled for works by Picasso ? the Arlequin, the Pierrot, even the Guernica. One noteworthy Picasso-christened tower, the Suite Vollard, features 11 full-floor residences, each of which is supposed to be able to rotate independently. The Suite Vollard is 10 years overdue for occupancy. Its engineering is still unproved. Ferrovila and Ecoville: in close proximity, you can see the politicized landless and the profit-minded land developers who threaten Curitiba?s status as an ecological city. A reputation can be as hard to uphold as to establish. Unlike his three immediate predecessors, Mayor Richa ? a boyish, blow-dried 41-year-old civil engineer from a prominent political family ? is not an urban planner. And Ippuc, while still powerful, no longer directs the show. Richa has discontinued the longstanding mayoral custom, established by Lerner, of attending a weekly meeting at Ippuc. Under Lerner and his successors, ?the mayor sat in Ippuc, and you felt what he wanted,? Fragomeni says. ?It was a very verticalized government. Ippuc also planned the budget for the city. There?s democracy now, which is good. But it is no longer a pyramid; it?s a network. The mayor now expects you to propose what Curitiba should look like. He?s not a town planner.? Nor is Curitiba a single town any longer. It?s a conurbation. Planning must be for the metropolitan region, not just for the municipality. Does it matter that Curitiba bans polluting industries if the neighboring town of Arauc??ria has an oil refinery belching smoke on the city line? Similarly, if the new immigrants to the poor surrounding communities don?t recycle, then Curitiba?s landfill, the only such facility in the metropolitan region, will fill up even sooner. Like garbage, water does not respect city limits: Curitiba?s water supply depends on reservoirs controlled by municipalities outside its borders. What was never simple has become even more complex. For a long time, the citizens of Curitiba were so proud of the city?s reputation as an urban showplace that they kept re-electing urban planners ? self-styled technical experts who seemed to be above politics and who vaunted their expertise in running the buses, building the parks and recycling the garbage. But a mayor today must be able to negotiate successfully with other mayors if reform is to work. Mayors need to be politicians, even in Curitiba. *** Arthur Lubow, a contributing writer, last wrote for the magazine about the photographer Jeff Wall. -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman edelman@greenidea.info Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net From schipper at wri.org Mon May 21 09:12:45 2007 From: schipper at wri.org (Lee Schipper) Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 20:12:45 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: The Road to Curitiba In-Reply-To: <4650E0BF.2060601@greenidea.info> References: <4650E0BF.2060601@greenidea.info> Message-ID: <4650ABBD0200003800007B33@HERMES.wri.org> This otherwise excellent Sunday Times magazine suffers from a weird flaw. You almost don't notice when the articles on green buildings end and the adverts on decidcely un-green buildings, mcmansions etc begin. A colleague and I wrote a nasty letter about these "Trojan Horse" ads. >>> "Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory" 5/20/2007 7:58:55 PM >>> Long article from NY Times about the successes, failures and politics of the well-known transformation of Curitiba... - T *** The Road to Curitiba by Arthur Lubow On Saturday mornings, children gather to paint and draw in the main downtown shopping street of Curitiba, in southern Brazil. More than just a charming tradition, the child?s play commemorates a key victory in a hard-fought, ongoing war. Back in 1972, the new mayor of the city, an architect and urban planner named Jaime Lerner, ordered a lightning transformation of six blocks of the street into a pedestrian zone. The change was recommended in a master plan for the city that was approved six years earlier, but fierce objections from the downtown merchants blocked its implementation. Lerner instructed his secretary of public works to institute the change quickly and asked how long it would take. ?He said he needed four months,? Lerner recalled recently. ?I said, ?Forty-eight hours.? He said, ?You?re crazy.? I said, ?Yes, I?m crazy, but do it in 48 hours.? ? The municipal authorities were able to accomplish it in three days, beginning on a Friday night and installing paving, lighting, planters and furniture by the end of the day on Monday. ?Being a very weak mayor, if I start to do it and take too long, everyone could stop it through a juridical demand,? Lerner went on to explain. ?If they stop the work, it?s finished. I had to do it very fast, at least in part. Because we had discussed it a great deal. Sometimes they have to have a demonstration effect.? The demonstration worked. Within days, impressed by the increase in their business, the once-recalcitrant shop owners were demanding an extension of the traffic-free district. Some diehard motorists, however, sulked. Lerner heard that a group of them were planning to disregard the prohibition and drive their cars into the street on a Saturday morning. So he contrived an unbreachable defense. With the cooperation of the city?s teachers and a donation of rolls of newsprint and boxes of paint, on that morning he assembled several hundred children in the street, where they sat and drew pictures. ?It was to say, ?This is being done for children and their parents ? don?t even think of putting cars there,? ? he told me. The sputtered-out protest was the last resistance to the pedestrianization of the shopping area, which has since expanded from the original 6 blocks to encompass about 15 today. ?Of course, this was very emblematic,? Lerner recounted. ?We were trying to say, ?This city is not for cars.? When many mayors at the time were planning for individual cars, we were countervailing.? He observed that it was emblematic in another way also: ?From that point, they said, ?If he could do this in 72 hours, he can do anything.? It was a good strategy.? An opening salvo, the creation of the pedestrian zone inaugurated a series of programs by Lerner and his colleagues that made Curitiba a famous model of late-20th-century urban planning. In the early 1970s, when Brazil was welcoming any industry, no matter how toxic its byproducts, Curitiba decided to admit only nonpolluters; to accommodate them, it constructed an industrial district that reserved so much land for green space that it was derided as a ?golf course? until it succeeded in filling up with major businesses while its counterparts in other Latin American cities were flagging. Through the creation of two dozen recreational parks, many with lakes to catch runoff in low-lying areas that flood periodically, Curitiba managed, at a time of explosive population growth, to increase its green areas from 5 square feet per inhabitant to an astounding 560 square feet. The city promoted ?green? policies before they were fashionable and called itself ?the ecological capital of Brazil? in the 1980s, when there were no rivals for such a title. Today, Curitiba remains a pilgrimage destination for urbanists fascinated by its bus system, garbage-recycling program and network of parks. It is the answer to what might otherwise be a hypothetical question: How would cities look if urban planners, not politicians, took control? Although the children who paint on Saturday mornings are no longer needed to protect the downtown shopping street from cars, the battle to keep Curitiba green is never-ending. Indeed, some say it is going badly these days. The rivers, once crystalline, reek of untreated sewage. The bus system that has won admirers throughout the world appears to be nearing capacity; what?s more, Curitiba, by some measures, has a higher per capita ownership of private cars than any city in Brazil ? even exceeding Bras?lia, a city that was designed for cars. Curitiba?s garbage-recycling rate has been declining over the last six or seven years, and the only landfill in the municipal region will be full by the end of 2008. Jorge Wilheim, the S?o Paulo architect who drafted Curitiba?s master plan in 1965, says: ?When we made the plan, the population was 350,000. We thought in a few years it would reach 500,000. But it has grown much bigger.? The municipality of Curitiba today has 1.8 million people, and the population of the metropolitan region is 3.2 million. ?I know the plan of Curitiba is very famous, and I am the first to enjoy it, but that was in ?65,? Wilheim continues. ?The metropolitan region must have a new vision.? It is often said of Curitiba that it doesn?t feel like Brazil. Depending on who?s speaking, that can be intended as a compliment or a criticism. Populated by European immigrants in the 19th century, Curitiba has a demographic makeup that is largely more fair-skinned and well educated than that of Brazil?s tropical north. It is also unusually affluent. Unlike S?o Paulo, with its startling extremes of wealth and poverty, much of Curitiba to an American eye looks familiarly middle class. Even the scruffy used-car lots have a seediness reminiscent of Los Angeles, not the Rio de Janeiro of ?City of God.? The city, especially the large downtown, is very clean, thanks to municipal sanitation trucks and the freelance carrinheiros, or cart people, who pick up trash to sell at recycling centers. During my visit to Curitiba in March, the city was the host of an international biodiversity conference. While I hadn?t known of it when I scheduled my trip, the coincidence was about as remarkable as finding a design show to greet you in Milan or a wine festival under way in Bordeaux. Environmentalism is the heart of Curitiba?s self-identity, and the municipal government is always devising new schemes that showcase the brand. The rest of the world has caught on, if not yet caught up. Ecological awareness is architecturally trendy. This year?s winner of the prestigious Pritzker Prize is Richard Rogers , a longtime proponent of mass transit, lower energy consumption and ecologically sensitive buildings. Commercially, real-estate developers from Beijing to Santa Monica are brandishing their LEED certificates (Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design) as they market condominiums and office suites to green-minded consumers. While it is unusually ambitious, the 25-year plan that Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg proposed last month for New York is part of an international wave of recognition that cities must live more responsibly, especially when it comes to their effusions of climate-warming gases and their excretions of mountains of solid waste. Bloomberg?s most contentious idea ? a ?congestion tax? on cars entering traffic-clogged districts during peak hours ? has been working for more than four years in London (and more than 30 years in Singapore) to increase the numbers of people using public transportation. Interestingly, Curitiba adopted an opposite approach, brandishing a carrot instead of a stick. The city planners suspected that public transportation would attract more users if it was more attractive. And that reasonable assumption turned out to be correct. The efficient buses that zip across the Curitiba metropolitan region are the most conspicuously un-Brazilian feature of the city. Instead of descending into subway stations, Curitibanos file into ribbed glass tubes that are boarding platforms for the rapid-transit buses. (The glass tubes resemble the ?fosteritos? that Norman Foster later designed for the metro in Bilbao, Spain.) Curitiba has five express-bus avenues, with a sixth in development, to allow you to traverse the city with speedy dispatch. In the early 1970s, most cities investing in public transportation were building subways or light-rail networks. Curitiba lacked the resources and the time to install a train system. Lerner says that compared with the Curitiba bus network, a light rail system would have required 20 times the financial investment; a subway would have cost 100 times as much. ?We tried to understand, what is a subway?? he recalls. ?It has to have speed, comfort, reliability and good frequency. But why does it have to be underground? Underground is very expensive. With dedicated lanes and not stopping on every corner, we could do it with buses.? Because widening the avenues would have required a lengthy and costly expropriation process, the planners came up with a ?trinary? system that embraced three parallel thoroughfares: a large central avenue dedicated to two-way rapid-bus traffic (flanked by slow lanes for cars making short local trips) and, a block over on each side, an avenue for fast one-way automobile traffic. When the bus system was inaugurated, it transported 54,000 passengers daily. That number has ballooned to 2.3 million, in large part because of innovations that permit passengers to board and exit rapidly. In 1992, Lerner and his team established the tubular boarding platforms with fare clerks and turnstiles, so that the mechanisms for paying and boarding are separated, as in a subway. To carry more people at a time, the city introduced flexible-hinged articulated buses that open their doors wide for rapid entry and egress; then, when the buses couldn?t cope with the demand, the Lerner team called for bi-articulated buses of 88 feet with two hinges (and a 270-passenger capacity), which Volvo manufactured at Curitiba?s request. Comparing the capacities of bus and subway systems, Lerner reels off numbers with a promoter?s panache. ?A normal bus in a normal street conducts x passengers a day,? he told me. ?With a dedicated lane, it can transport 2x a day. If you have an articulated bus in a dedicated lane, 2.7x passengers. If you add a boarding tube, you can achieve 3.4x passengers, and if you add double articulated buses, you can have four times as many passengers as a normal bus in a normal street.? He says that with an arrival frequency of 30 seconds, you can transport 36,000 passengers every hour ? which is about the same load he would have achieved with a subway. Unfortunately, the trends of bus usage are down. While the system has expanded to cover 13 of the cities in the metropolitan region, charging a flat fare that in practice subsidizes the trips of the mostly poorer workers who live in outlying areas, bus ridership within the Curitiba municipality has been declining. ?We are losing bus passengers and gaining cars,? says Luis Fragomeni, a Curitiba urban planner. He observes that, like potential users of public transport everywhere, many Curitibanos view it as noisy, crowded and unsafe. Undermining the thinking behind the master plan, even those who live alongside the high-density rapid-bus corridors are buying cars. ?The licensing of cars in Curitiba is 2.5 times higher than babies being born in Curitiba,? he says. ?Trouble.? Because cars are status symbols, attempts to discourage people from buying them are probably futile. ?We say, ?Have your own car, but keep it in the garage and use it only on weekends,? ? Fragomeni remarks. And the public-transport system must be upgraded continuously to remain an appealing alternative to private vehicles. ?That competition is very hard,? says Paulo Schmidt, the president of URBS, the rapid-bus system. During peak hours, buses on the main routes are already arriving at almost 30-second intervals; any more buses, and they would back up. While acknowledging his iconoclasm in questioning the sufficiency of Curitiba?s trademark bus network, Schmidt nevertheless says a light-rail system is needed to complement it. When it comes to modifying human behavior, persuading urban dwellers to sort their garbage can be harder than coaxing them to garage their cars. Lerner and his allies have claimed that they have succeeded beyond the dreams of environmentalists in far more eco-friendly countries, including Japan and Sweden. Curitiba was a pioneer in separating recyclable materials, with its ?Garbage That Is Not Garbage? program, inaugurated in 1989. (The city leaders have a flair for slogans.) Recycling has assumed a new urgency, because the entire metropolitan area contains only one landfill, and it will be exhausted by the end of next year. Jos? Antonio Andreguetto, Curitiba?s secretary for the environment, told me that 22 percent of the city?s garbage is being separated for recycling, a rate that has been declining over the last half-dozen years; he says he hopes to bring the number up to 34 percent by the end of the current mayor?s term in 2008. Lerner says the numbers have been eroding until recently because some recent mayors haven?t emphasized the issue, but he maintains that the recycling rate in Curitiba is still the highest in the world. It is very hard to determine how accurate the estimates are for garbage separation. ?Curitiba began early to look at recycling garbage ? that is true, and it is good,? says Teresa Urban, a local journalist and environmental activist. ?But the separation of recycled garbage is a little part of all the garbage we have here. There is no tradition of participation here. The mayor sold to the people the idea that this is a wonderful city. And the people think, This is wonderful, I don?t have to do anything.? Like other left-wing critics, Urban traces the lack of participation to an original sin. The progressive urban planning of Curitiba was not initiated by a democratic process; it was set in motion by the military dictatorship that seized power in 1964 and ruled Brazil until the mid-?80s. Its environmentalism is rooted in authoritarianism. ?They didn?t have to confront the public through public participation, and the decisions could be made by urban planners ? architects acting as politicians,? says Clara Iraz??bal, who has written a book comparing the urban planning experiences of Curitiba and Portland, Ore. The city that has been called the most forward-looking in the Western Hemisphere is an outgrowth of an era that many Brazilians prefer not to look back on. Jaime Lerner, the archangel of the Curitiba green movement, was anointed by the dragons of war. Always an anomaly, Curitiba became a model for our day by defying the spirit of the time. In the late 1950s and early 1960s, urban developers throughout the world, influenced by Le Corbusier and his followers, were remodeling cities to facilitate the easy circulation of people in automobiles. But in Curitiba, an informal group of young architects, urban planners and civil engineers at the city?s Federal University of Paran??, which is the oldest university in Brazil, objected more effectively to the mayor?s widening of streets and a proposed highway bypass that threatened the historic city center. As luck would have it, one of these outraged civil engineers, Fanchette Rischbieter, was married to the chairman of the government-controlled investment company that was financing the construction of roads in Paran??, the largely agricultural state of which Curitiba is the capital. ?I said, ?It doesn?t make sense, my wife and her friends are against these people ? why don?t we make a plan?? ? Karlos Rischbieter recalls. Selected by the city, Jorge Wilheim came up with a master plan that concentrated high-density construction along two long rapid-transit axes that skirted the center. At least as important as his transportation and zoning recommendations was Wilheim?s request for an urban-planning institute to implement them. In retrospect, the enthusiastic and talented staff of the Institute of Urban Research and Planning of Curitiba, which is known by its Portuguese acronym, Ippuc, ensured the success of Curitiba?s redevelopment. Still, there was a lag of five years from the formal adoption of the master plan in 1966 until its implementation, which began with the governor?s selection of Lerner, who was president of Ippuc, to be mayor in 1971. Wilheim the planner needed Lerner the doer to turn abstract ideas into inventive reality. Curitiba has been studied more than copied (one notable exception is a Curitiba-style bus system in Bogot??, Colombia) because unlike Lerner, most mayors stumble over political obstacles. ?I always tell a story of the ?80s,? Rischbieter says. ?A friend from S?o Paulo came with his wife and son to visit Curitiba. He did not know this city. I took my car and showed him Curitiba for three hours. When I left him at the hotel, he said, ?What did you show people before Jaime Lerner?? ? A spark plug of ideas, Lerner, the son of Jewish immigrants from Poland, combines salesmanship and pragmatism. Following his mayoral terms, he won election twice as governor of Paran?? State, retiring in 2002 at the age of 65 to devote himself to his architecture firm and to worldwide speaking engagements espousing green urban planning. He has a large head that seems to rest directly on wide shoulders; knowing his passion for recycling, you might almost believe that his thick-set body has been through a compactor. He radiates a highly compressed and infectious energy, with a can-do assertiveness that borders on arrogance. ?He never asked if something was good or not,? Rischbieter remarks. ?He would say, ?I?ll go do it.? I would say, ?You have to go ask people and get their opinions.? He would say, ?No, they won?t agree with me, and it has to be done.? He is not a political animal, he is a dictator.? Rischbieter admires Lerner; others, however, using the same descriptive terminology, do not. In the rough-and-tumble of Brazilian politics, it has become customary for supporters of populist parties to disparage Lerner (who personifies his talented team to allies and foes alike) as a creature of the dictatorship. According to this argument, the generals detested politicians; they admired technical experts. In Curitiba, they found a showplace to display their accomplishments to the world. ?The military are addicted to planning,? says Fragomeni, who has an ambivalent attitude toward Lerner. ?If they don?t plan, they don?t go forward. They invested in Curitiba. Mr. Lerner may like it or not. His continuity was ensured by the military government.? For his part, Lerner says that he had a far harder time with the military dictatorship than he did later, as an elected official. Under the military regime, he served at the pleasure of the governor and the state assembly. ?I could be fired the next day,? he says. ?Being an elected mayor, I was stronger. Nobody could fire me.? In two terms (1971-75 and 1979-83) under the military regime, and then in an elected third term (1989-92) after the restoration of democracy, Lerner translated the master plan into concrete and leafy reality. Like an impatient muralist, he worked on a wide scope at high speed. ?I know cities that plant 10,000 trees, and they make a whole festival,? he told me. ?We planted a million trees. I am obsessed with scale.? He sought to make a livable city; over time that segued smoothly into an ecological city. Parks initially intended as recreational areas would also absorb floodwaters and extract carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. Lerner used tax breaks to wheedle landowners into turning over portions of their property, which typically had little value at the time. In the rocky northern district, he converted one flooded quarry into the Wire Opera House, which has become a city icon, and another into the Free University of the Environment, a non-degree-granting institution that educates people on ecological issues. He transformed land that was serving as a refuse dump into a botanical garden; named for Fanchette Rischbieter, who died in 1989, it features a duck pond, French parterres and a classic Victorian greenhouse. The architecture in all three of these parks is less noteworthy for its formal design than for its building materials ? salvaged telephone poles, mesh grating, metal tubing ? and the speed of construction. From blueprint drafts to opening night, the Wire Opera House took about two months to complete. Lerner refers to such projects as ?urban acupuncture? that energizes the development process. When I would ask people if they thought Lerner could have accomplished his reforms under a democracy, people sympathetic to both Lerner and the military (like Rischbieter) or critical of both (like Urban) would say no; but most, professing admiration for Lerner but distaste for the military, said the dictatorship was not a precondition for his success. Lerner and Wilheim were emphatic on this point. ?Not being a traditional politician helped me a lot,? Lerner told me. Nonetheless, by entering public life, even a self-professed apolitical man becomes a political actor. What struck me was the way in which the return of democracy changed Lerner?s core constituency. Under the generals, he was vulnerable mainly to the business community. That is why, for instance, he had to implement the pedestrian mall so quickly: if the business class lost confidence in him, the state assembly would have insisted that he be replaced. In a democratic Brazil, Lerner and his successors are threatened not just by the rich, but perhaps even more acutely by the poor ? politically, by populist parties, and demographically, by the inexorable population growth. In politics, the pendulum has swung, as it always does. For the first time in 15 years, the winning candidate in Curitiba?s last mayoral election, in 2004, was not directly associated with the Lerner Group, the firm of 10 architects and planners that Lerner runs. Still, the new administration is continuing on the path that Lerner blazed. More worrisome for Curitiba?s future is the demographic trend. Over the past half-century, the state of Paran?? underwent a radical change, from a labor-intensive coffee economy to a mechanized agriculture of soybeans. Hundreds of thousands lost their jobs. Many of the dispossessed have relocated to the Curitiba metropolitan region, which in Brazil is famously livable. Every day, more keep coming. The ?invasions? of homeless people onto unoccupied land spill like ink stains over the neatly outlined development maps of the urban planners, not only in Curitiba but across Brazil. One Saturday morning, I visited the neighborhood of Nossa Senhora da Luz, where a small group of people waited with sacks or improvised carts of garbage. The hardscrabble community dates from an early invasion of the 1970s. Today the streets are paved and the houses are solid cinder block, but unlike downtown Curitiba, here it is immediately apparent from the bleak, scrubby streetscape and the dark skins of the populace that you are in a third-world setting. I was there to observe one of 79 exchange centers that the municipality of Curitiba has established in communities where the streets are too narrow or too bumpy for large garbage trucks to circulate. Instead, people can carry their trash to biweekly collection sites and trade four pounds of garbage for one pound of vegetables. Mostly they bring plastic, paper and cardboard. At another site, run by the community council, more valuable aluminum cans are collected in return for money, and at yet another, organic material is traded for bus tokens. Compared with middle-class people, the residents of this neighborhood do not generate so much recyclable material; much of what they trade they prospect for around the city. Curitiba may be more successful in enlisting poor citizens to function as part-time carrinheiros than in enlightening better-off residents on their civic responsibilities. The largest working-class housing development within Curitiba is called Bairro Novo, or ?new neighborhood.? It was developed hurriedly, you might say frantically, after a band of 3,000 people, at the start of a three-day holiday weekend in September 1992, invaded a nearby parcel of vacant land where a disused railroad line once operated. This was the same sort of stealth tactic that Lerner employed two decades earlier to pedestrianize the shopping street, but now it was being used against him ? coordinated, he maintains, by his political opponents, who controlled the governorship then as they do now. Since the security forces are directed by the state of Paran?? and not the city, there was no way Lerner could stop the so-called Ferrovila (or railroad town) invasion. He says that he was especially infuriated because his administration had been researching the creation of a much larger development on the same land, housing 10 times as many people, as well as establishing schools and other social services. Instead, his team began planning the Bairro Novo on a parcel of land that was slated for development a decade or two later. There are 80,000 people living in Bairro Novo today. For a while, the illegal squats died off. ?If you have a good alternative, you can prevent the invasions,? Lerner says. Recently, invasions have started up again. ?There is a feeling that it may be politically motivated,? says Fragomeni, the urban planner, who served until March as president of Ippuc. He reports that in Curitiba today, there are 13,000 households in invasion settlements, 6,000 of them in ecologically fragile areas. Squatters often occupy land by rivers, both to obtain a water source and because, by law, the riverbanks can?t be developed. ?The land is forbidden, and it is free at the same time,? says Urban, the environmental activist. Raw sewage from these settlements flows directly into the rivers. Fragomeni says that fewer than 70 percent of Curitiba households have sewer connections. The current administration, led by Mayor Beto Richa (who was endorsed by Lerner but is not professionally associated with him), is trying to alleviate the problem with a new program to clean up the water basin of the sadly polluted Barigu? River: relocating people to housing that is a little farther from the river, replanting vegetation on the banks and linking houses to the sewage system. The program to reclaim the Barigu? basin was galvanized by the most recent invasion in February, when 1,500 people seized land near Ferrovila in Barigu? Park and hit a sensitive nerve. Their encampment is provocatively close to Ecoville, a controversial upper-middle-class development that arose in the mid-?90s along one of the rapid-bus corridors. As Lerner acidly observes of Ecoville, ?I don?t like this project, because it is not ?eco? and it is not ?ville.? ? Ecoville is a self-contained development in which tall buildings loom over patches of vegetation and looping roads. It?s an unconvincing version of the discredited Corbusian model of ?the city in the park,? an idea that the developers self-consciously reference by naming one of these buildings ?Le Corbusier.? Many buildings have been labeled for works by Picasso ? the Arlequin, the Pierrot, even the Guernica. One noteworthy Picasso-christened tower, the Suite Vollard, features 11 full-floor residences, each of which is supposed to be able to rotate independently. The Suite Vollard is 10 years overdue for occupancy. Its engineering is still unproved. Ferrovila and Ecoville: in close proximity, you can see the politicized landless and the profit-minded land developers who threaten Curitiba?s status as an ecological city. A reputation can be as hard to uphold as to establish. Unlike his three immediate predecessors, Mayor Richa ? a boyish, blow-dried 41-year-old civil engineer from a prominent political family ? is not an urban planner. And Ippuc, while still powerful, no longer directs the show. Richa has discontinued the longstanding mayoral custom, established by Lerner, of attending a weekly meeting at Ippuc. Under Lerner and his successors, ?the mayor sat in Ippuc, and you felt what he wanted,? Fragomeni says. ?It was a very verticalized government. Ippuc also planned the budget for the city. There?s democracy now, which is good. But it is no longer a pyramid; it?s a network. The mayor now expects you to propose what Curitiba should look like. He?s not a town planner.? Nor is Curitiba a single town any longer. It?s a conurbation. Planning must be for the metropolitan region, not just for the municipality. Does it matter that Curitiba bans polluting industries if the neighboring town of Arauc??ria has an oil refinery belching smoke on the city line? Similarly, if the new immigrants to the poor surrounding communities don?t recycle, then Curitiba?s landfill, the only such facility in the metropolitan region, will fill up even sooner. Like garbage, water does not respect city limits: Curitiba?s water supply depends on reservoirs controlled by municipalities outside its borders. What was never simple has become even more complex. For a long time, the citizens of Curitiba were so proud of the city?s reputation as an urban showplace that they kept re-electing urban planners ? self-styled technical experts who seemed to be above politics and who vaunted their expertise in running the buses, building the parks and recycling the garbage. But a mayor today must be able to negotiate successfully with other mayors if reform is to work. Mayors need to be politicians, even in Curitiba. *** Arthur Lubow, a contributing writer, last wrote for the magazine about the photographer Jeff Wall. -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman edelman@greenidea.info Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From roelof.wittink at cycling.nl Mon May 21 16:07:07 2007 From: roelof.wittink at cycling.nl (Roelof Wittink) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 09:07:07 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Betr.: English version: Re: Islamic Bicycles for Iranian Women Message-ID: I read a short version in our newspaper saying that Iranian women should cycle more but with islamic clothing. Mixed feelings about that roelof wittink Roelof Wittink, Director I-ce = Interface for Cycling Expertise Trans 3, 3512 JJ Utrecht, The Netherlands tel: +31 (0)30 2304521 fax: +31 (0)30 2312384 email (general): i-ce@cycling.nl email (personal): roelof.wittink@cycling.nl website: www.i-ce.info >>> carlos.pardo@sutp.org 18-5-2007 17:31 >>> The English version of the brief summary of that news is in: http://www.france24.com/france24Public/en/administration/afp-news.html?id=070517085444.ykmz3ms5&cat=null I guess the complete article is not in English. Pretty interesting! Best regards, Carlos F. Pardo ciclored wrote: The article is in spanish, maybe somebody can find the english version... greetings, Carlos Cordero (PD/Agencia EFE).- Ir?n fabricar? "bicicletas isl?micas" para las mujeres, pensadas para disimular sus formas mediante una cabina que cubrir?a la mitad del cuerpo. "Este proyecto permite fomentar el deporte femenino", se?al? Elaheh Sofali, una de las responsables del proyecto, seg?n informa el diario gubernamental del pa?s. Faezeh Hach?mi, hija del ex presidente iran? Akbar Hach?mi Rafsandjani, ex responsable del deporte ol?mpico femenino, intent? el desarrollo del ciclismo entre las mujeres en los a?os 90, pero est? decisi?n no tuvo el ?xito deseado por la oposici?n de los religiosos conservadores. EL TEL?N DE FONDO O EL VELO DE FONDO Como cada primavera, la campa?a contra la "vestimenta indecorosa" se est? ensa?ando con las mujeres, cuyos pa?uelos coloridos y cada vez m?s escuetos desaf?an la imposici?n del uniforme isl?mico. S?lo durante los cuatro primeros d?as de la campa?a, 150.000 personas fueron interpeladas en todo el pa?s, de las que 13 pasaron a disposici?n judicial, seg?n inform? el jefe de la polic?a, general Ismael Ahmadi-Moghaddam. El resto se libraron firmando compromisos de buena conducta que en caso de reincidencia se aportar?n ante el juez. Desde el arranque de la campa?a, m?s de 3.000 mujeres (una media de 150 al d?a) han sido detenidas y han pasado al menos unas horas en comisar?a ----- Original Message ----- From: Sujit Patwardhan To: edelman@greenidea.info ; Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 12:50 PM Subject: [sustran] Re: Oxygen supplies for India police Like the offer of a "last cigarette" to the man being walked to the gallows....... -- Sujit On 5/17/07, Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory wrote: *Police stations across the Indian city of Calcutta have been equipped with oxygen devices to enable police to offset the effects of pollution * -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman edelman@greenidea.info Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). -- ------------------------------------------------------ Sujit Patwardhan sujit@vsnl.com sujitjp@gmail.com "Yamuna", ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007 India Tel: 25537955 ----------------------------------------------------- Hon. Secretary: Parisar www.parisar.org ------------------------------------------------------ Founder Member: PTTF (Pune Traffic & Transportation Forum) www.pttf.net ------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). __________ NOD32 2276 (20070518) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement.================================================================SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). __________ NOD32 2276 (20070518) Information __________This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.http://www.eset.com From schipper at wri.org Mon May 21 19:38:26 2007 From: schipper at wri.org (Lee Schipper) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 06:38:26 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Betr.: English version: Re: Islamic Bicycles for Iranian Women In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46513E620200003800007BC8@HERMES.wri.org> This issue came up at a meeting on urban transport and poverty, organized by the Woodrow Wilson Institute here in DC. Point was that some bike models do not "fit" with some traditional womens' clothing in Africa and I guess the middle east.. >>> "Roelof Wittink" 5/21/2007 3:07:07 AM >>> I read a short version in our newspaper saying that Iranian women should cycle more but with islamic clothing. Mixed feelings about that roelof wittink Roelof Wittink, Director I-ce = Interface for Cycling Expertise Trans 3, 3512 JJ Utrecht, The Netherlands tel: +31 (0)30 2304521 fax: +31 (0)30 2312384 email (general): i-ce@cycling.nl email (personal): roelof.wittink@cycling.nl website: www.i-ce.info >>> carlos.pardo@sutp.org 18-5-2007 17:31 >>> The English version of the brief summary of that news is in: http://www.france24.com/france24Public/en/administration/afp-news.html?id=070517085444.ykmz3ms5&cat=null I guess the complete article is not in English. Pretty interesting! Best regards, Carlos F. Pardo ciclored wrote: The article is in spanish, maybe somebody can find the english version... greetings, Carlos Cordero (PD/Agencia EFE).- Ir?n fabricar? "bicicletas isl?micas" para las mujeres, pensadas para disimular sus formas mediante una cabina que cubrir?a la mitad del cuerpo. "Este proyecto permite fomentar el deporte femenino", se?al? Elaheh Sofali, una de las responsables del proyecto, seg?n informa el diario gubernamental del pa?s. Faezeh Hach?mi, hija del ex presidente iran? Akbar Hach?mi Rafsandjani, ex responsable del deporte ol?mpico femenino, intent? el desarrollo del ciclismo entre las mujeres en los a?os 90, pero est? decisi?n no tuvo el ?xito deseado por la oposici?n de los religiosos conservadores. EL TEL?N DE FONDO O EL VELO DE FONDO Como cada primavera, la campa?a contra la "vestimenta indecorosa" se est? ensa?ando con las mujeres, cuyos pa?uelos coloridos y cada vez m?s escuetos desaf?an la imposici?n del uniforme isl?mico. S?lo durante los cuatro primeros d?as de la campa?a, 150.000 personas fueron interpeladas en todo el pa?s, de las que 13 pasaron a disposici?n judicial, seg?n inform? el jefe de la polic?a, general Ismael Ahmadi-Moghaddam. El resto se libraron firmando compromisos de buena conducta que en caso de reincidencia se aportar?n ante el juez. Desde el arranque de la campa?a, m?s de 3.000 mujeres (una media de 150 al d?a) han sido detenidas y han pasado al menos unas horas en comisar?a ----- Original Message ----- From: Sujit Patwardhan To: edelman@greenidea.info ; Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 12:50 PM Subject: [sustran] Re: Oxygen supplies for India police Like the offer of a "last cigarette" to the man being walked to the gallows....... -- Sujit On 5/17/07, Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory wrote: *Police stations across the Indian city of Calcutta have been equipped with oxygen devices to enable police to offset the effects of pollution * -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman edelman@greenidea.info Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). -- ------------------------------------------------------ Sujit Patwardhan sujit@vsnl.com sujitjp@gmail.com "Yamuna", ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007 India Tel: 25537955 ----------------------------------------------------- Hon. Secretary: Parisar www.parisar.org ------------------------------------------------------ Founder Member: PTTF (Pune Traffic & Transportation Forum) www.pttf.net ------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). __________ NOD32 2276 (20070518) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement.================================================================SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). __________ NOD32 2276 (20070518) Information __________This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.http://www.eset.com -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Tue May 22 01:02:04 2007 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (Eric Britton) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 18:02:04 +0200 Subject: [sustran] MIT China Planning Network Urban Transport Congress Message-ID: On Behalf Of Jinhua Zhao MIT China Planning Network Urban Transportation Congress Beijing, China August 2-4, 2007 Call for Paper and Participation Dear All, With three quarters of the world's public transport capital investment in the coming two decades and a similar proportion of severe transport problems, China requires the best possible intellectual, political, and industrial support for its urban transport needs. The China Planning Network has undertaken to organize the CPN Urban Transportation Congress in Beijing, jointly with ? Massachusetts Institute of Technology ? China Association for Science and Technology ? China Xinhua News Agency The Congress dates are Aug 2-4th, 2007. The venues are ? Plenary conference: Great Hall of People, Beijing ? Parallel sessions: Beijing International Conference Center The CPN Urban Transportation Congress will be the highest profile conference ever held in China on urban transportation. The three day Congress will feature over 100 presentations in the plenary conference and 12 parallel sessions, and will welcome 1200~1500 participants, including academic scholars and students from universities and research institutes; government officials from the China Ministry of Communication, China Ministry of Construction, and National Development and Reform Commission; mayors, transportation directors and planning directors from major Chinese cities; and transportation professionals from private industries. Please visit the CPN Congress website http://www.ChinaUrbanTransport.com/ for more information. The Congress media include ? Xinhua News Agency.Outlook Weekly ? Xinhua News Agency.Globe Biweekly ? Financial Times, Chinese ? Economic observer The parallel sessions include ? China National and Municipal Urban Transportation Policies ? Managing Urban Congestion: Policies and Practices ? Urban Transportation Planning: A Comparative Perspective-- Beijing, London, New York, Chicago ? Public Transportation: New Paradigm in China ? Intelligent Transportation Systems and Urban Information Systems ? Integrating Land Use and Transportation ? Social Aspects of Urban Transportation ? Green Transport: Cars, Energy, and Environment ? Financing Urban Transportation Projects in China ? Mobile Media and Urban Transportation ? Mega Transportation Projects: International Experiences and Cooperation ? Interdisciplinary Transportation Education Invited speakers include ? Prof. Joseph Sussman, MIT ? Prof. Nigel Wilson, MIT ? Prof. Ralph Gakenheimer, MIT ? Prof. Karen Polenske, MIT ? Prof. Joseph Ferreira, MIT ? Prof. Adele Santos, MIT ? Prof. Stephen Connors, MIT ? Prof. Michael Meyer, Georgia Tech, Chairman of TRB ? Prof. Vukan Vuchic, University of Pennsylvania ? Mr. Dave Wetzel, Vice-Chair, Transport for London ? Mr. Kirk Steudle, Michigan Department of Transportation Director ? Dr. Deepak Bhattasali, Lead Economist, World Bank ? Prof. Stephen Glaister, Imperial College, UK ? Prof. Harry Dimitriou, University College London, UK ? Prof. Robert Cervero, UC Berkeley ? Mr. Sam Casella, Former President of AICP ? Prof. Randall Crane, UCLA ? Prof. Hugo Priemus, TU Delft, the Netherlands ? Ms. Pamela L. Boswell, Vice President, American Public Transportation Association ? Dr. Andres Rabinowicz, Vice President, Caliper Corporation ? Prof. Ming Zhang, University of Texas at Austin ? Prof. Zhong-Ren Peng, University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee ? Mr. Daniel Yang, Austin's Capital Area Metropolitan Planning Organization ? Ms. Kelly Sims Gallagher, Director of the Energy Technology Innovation Project, KSG, Harvard University ? Mr. Sam Zimmerman, Urban Transport Advisor, World Bank ? Ms. Robin Chase, Founder and CEO of GoLoCo, Founder and Former CEO of Zipcar ? Prof. Frank Moss, Director of Media Lab, MIT (tbc) ? Chancellor Phillip Clay, MIT (tbc) ? Mr. John Flora, PIDG, Former Director of Urban Transport, World Bank (tbc) ? Mr. Neil D. Schuster, President and CEO, ITS America (tbc) ? ...... In addition to the presentations by the invited speakers, the Congress will accommodate 25~35 presentations from the Call for Papers. You are welcome to attend the conference and to submit an original and high quality paper around the topics of the 12 parallel sessions. The deadline for submitting the abstract (no more than 250 words) is June 5th, 2007, and the full paper is due July 10th, 2007. The paper should be written in English, and should be no more than 7,000 words. Papers will be selected by a review committee for conference presentation and publication in the proceedings. Together with the Congress, we are organizing 1) CPN World Transportation School Admission Open House and 2) Roundtable Discussion with Beijing Transportation Committee on Beijing 11th Five Year Transportation Planning and 2020 Long term Plan. We will announce the details of the CPN Open House and CPN Roundtable Discussion soon. Thank you very much for your support to China Planning Network. Please let us know if you have any further questions/suggestions to the CPN Urban Transportation Congress. We look forward to seeing you in Beijing this summer. Best, Ming Guo, Zhan Guo, Jinhua Zhao Executive Commissioners China Planning Network Faculty Advisor Lawrence J. Vale, Head and Professor of Urban Design and Planning Department of Urban Studies and Planning Massachusetts Institute of Technology NOTE: The China Planning Network (CPN) has run three successful previous conferences at Harvard in 2004, at MIT in 2005, and in Beijing in 2006. Last year in Beijing, the China Planning Network 3rd Annual Conference featured 116 presentations and discussions in nine parallel tracks. It welcomed over 1000 participants, including 100 scholars, 100 mayors and planning directors, a letter of congratulations from China's Vice-Premier Mr. Zeng Peiyan, and a keynote speech by China Congress Vice-Chair Mr. Jiang Zhenhua. As MIT President Susan Hockfield wrote in a congratulatory letter to CPN in 2006, "The China Planning Network has become a significant way for students, faculty, and practitioners from the west to engage with the rapidly changing development scene in China. Through the efforts of the China Planning Network, MIT and the Department of Urban Studies and Planning (DUSP), continue to lead the world to bring the advanced knowledge on urban planning and development to bear on China's urbanization challenges." For information about CPN and the previous conferences, please visit: www.ChinaPlanningNetwork.org Contact Methods: Organizing Committee MIT Office: Jinhua Zhao jinhua@mit.edu Zhan Guo guozhan@mit.edu Tel: (617) 230-4090 Room 7-337, the Department of Urban Studies and Planning Massachusetts Institute of Technology Cambridge, MA, 02139 U.S.A. Organizing Committee Beijing Office Ming Guo Guoming@mit.edu Tel: +86-(0)10-82150296 Fax: +86-(0)10-82150269 Block A, Room 505, Science Park Tower Tsinghua Science Park Beijing, China From c_bradshaw at rogers.com Tue May 22 01:05:50 2007 From: c_bradshaw at rogers.com (Chris Bradshaw) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 12:05:50 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: [NewMobilityCafe] Contracting out parking & Making the Same Mistakes References: Message-ID: <023501c79bc1$e93c8740$0202a8c0@acer56fb35423d> > On Behalf Of Lee Schipper > The point of street parking is that the value of the street is usual MUCH more than is charged per hour for parking. Donald Shoup, in _The High Cost of Free Parking_ (2005), makes the point that free and under-charged parking represents a much higher subsidy than all the other subsidies the oil and car industries receive. That provided by the city is 'public,' while the bulk of off-street parking (which is mostly free) is 'private,' being paid as a markup on the sales/salaries of all patrons/employees. Also, the capital value of the parking spaces in the U.S. exceeds the capital value of the vehicles that use those spaces, partly because there is a need for so many more parking spaces than for vehicles. He also makes the point that sharing cars greatly reduces the demand for parking, especially at residential areas that usually are designed for 1-2 parking spots to 'belong' to each residential unit. Almost all residential parking and employment parking is essentially 'private' in the sense that only one person can use it; while at other destinations (which constitute about 60% of all parking spaces, are 'shared.' But even in the latter category, the number of these spaces is determined, not by the total demand, but the peak demand, which itself is determined by the overall car population, not by the # of drivers. The Paris move to put 20,000 bikes on their streets will be well-received because a) they will be shared, and b) they will be paid for by the users. This same principle could be used to gradually replace private cars with shared one. I hope this analogy becomes apparent to Parisiens. Simon Norton: > In the spirit of John Adams' "3 questions", I suggest that if we started > by asking what an appropriate transport system would be for an major urban area, cars would barely figure. (My personal opinion is that we'd be better off if we tried to minimise their use in smaller urban and even some rural areas, but I dare say this would be more controversial.) I agree with Adams, since the car's attraction is not its ideal use for any one kind of travel, but it strong second-choice status. Also, using the 'alternative' modes requires using them 'in tandem,' one with the other (bicycling doesn't work well in tandem unless a good folding bike is used, or shared bikes are ubiquitous). Again, the 'controversy' would related to how the cars are taken away. With a shared fleet in existance, not only is the solution equitable (all treated alike), but no one has to do completely without one. And, like shared bikes, one doesn't need to take a car around all the time in order to have one available; the widespread common fleet is always available when needed, even for 'legs' of a trip (if one-way trips are allowed, which is not the case now). Walter Hook: > Well, yes, this is the idea, to bring the price up to market rate. But there is also a question in my mind about bringing parking under the control of the state, and into a proper regulatory regime, and of using the money for street improvements and maintenance. After all, you can theoretically get at congestion charging through properly regulated parking. That is one of Shoup's conclusions: bring up street-parking rates to the market, and use the revenue to improve the walking environment. Ironically, the places where there is no market rate for parking (it now free, a most certain challenge to reformers like us), the walking environment is already inferior to that of main streets and environs. The revenue will make the latter better, leaving those in suburbia living with the dangers and lack of amenities of much larger parking areas -- but also leaving the non-car patron with a totally barren environment in just about every way. I am not sure why Shoup's book isn't cited here more often. For those of you who would like to 'taste' a bit of the 700-page tome, I have my extensive excerpts that I am willing to share (about 100 pages worth), in either *wpd or *.doc (send requests off list to: hearth@ties.ottawa.on.ca). Chris Bradshaw Ottawa From c_bradshaw at rogers.com Tue May 22 01:41:26 2007 From: c_bradshaw at rogers.com (Chris Bradshaw) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 12:41:26 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: UN "ambassador" for public transport? References: Message-ID: <02de01c79bc6$ecd747f0$0202a8c0@acer56fb35423d> I missed this discussion a week ago. I favour "Streets for People" Ambassador. "New Mobility" is ambiguous, as it would mean 'cars' in the developing world, and 'mobility' in my mind is juxtaposed with what roads are all about: access. As to ABC (anything but cars), that is emphasizing what we are against, rather than what we are for. And 'sustainable transportation' uses two long, technical terms that will bore, rather than enliven. "Streets for People", the title of one of the first books championing walking in cities (by Rudofsky, I think), also offers support for the 1 million people -- a large % of whom are pedestrians -- who lose their lives each year being run down by motor vehicles. Never hurts to have the health 'angle' covered. As to someone filling it, I feel it has to be someone with _both_ a high profile outside our field and a personal commitment to our work. I nominate Bette Midler, who, during a Charlie Rose interview (U.S. Public broadcasting) some time ago said that she wanted to retire from performing in just a few years and take up urban planning causes. More recently, she has championed community gardens on vacant lots in her native NYC (also the native city of the late Jane Jacobs). And she is a woman. Someone mentioned another woman, Grey's Anatomy actress Sandra Oh. She is also non-White. And, she is from an Ottawa suburb, where her parents still live and where she has announced she will be spending part of her summer. But I don't know her interests outside acting. Chris Bradshaw Ottawa From edelman at greenidea.info Tue May 22 02:48:17 2007 From: edelman at greenidea.info (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 19:48:17 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Re: UN "ambassador" for public transport? In-Reply-To: <02de01c79bc6$ecd747f0$0202a8c0@acer56fb35423d> References: <02de01c79bc6$ecd747f0$0202a8c0@acer56fb35423d> Message-ID: <4651DB61.8070003@greenidea.info> Hi, I like "Streets for People" too and Midler is okay but Sandra Oh is younger. The most important thing it seems is their ability to be identified with by the target audience(s) and also that they are credible in the subject area, though not necessarily an activist of any sort. - T Chris Bradshaw wrote: > I missed this discussion a week ago. > > I favour "Streets for People" Ambassador. "New Mobility" is ambiguous, as > it would mean 'cars' in the developing world, and 'mobility' in my mind is > juxtaposed with what roads are all about: access. As to ABC (anything but > cars), that is emphasizing what we are against, rather than what we are for. > And 'sustainable transportation' uses two long, technical terms that will > bore, rather than enliven. > > "Streets for People", the title of one of the first books championing > walking in cities (by Rudofsky, I think), also offers support for the 1 > million people -- a large % of whom are pedestrians -- who lose their lives > each year being run down by motor vehicles. Never hurts to have the health > 'angle' covered. > > As to someone filling it, I feel it has to be someone with _both_ a high > profile outside our field and a personal commitment to our work. > > I nominate Bette Midler, who, during a Charlie Rose interview (U.S. Public > broadcasting) some time ago said that she wanted to retire from performing > in just a few years and take up urban planning causes. More recently, she > has championed community gardens on vacant lots in her native NYC (also the > native city of the late Jane Jacobs). And she is a woman. > > Someone mentioned another woman, Grey's Anatomy actress Sandra Oh. She is > also non-White. And, she is from an Ottawa suburb, where her parents still > live and where she has announced she will be spending part of her summer. > But I don't know her interests outside acting. > > Chris Bradshaw > Ottawa > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). > > -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman edelman@greenidea.info Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net From regina at wholechoice.net Tue May 22 10:20:16 2007 From: regina at wholechoice.net (Gina Anderson) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 09:20:16 +0800 Subject: [sustran] Re: {Spam?} MIT China Planning Network Urban Transport Congress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070522092016.uwu8e7khmfc40o48@www.wholechoice.net> Excuse me, where are the sustainable transportation experts and professionals? Or is this more a large-scale introduction for western professionals to be able to gain consulting work in China? Gina Anderson -- Regina Anderson, AICP WholeChoice Master Planning, Pedestrian Design, Sustainability Singapore phone +65 6467-6594 Quoting Eric Britton : > On Behalf Of Jinhua Zhao > > MIT China Planning Network Urban Transportation Congress > Beijing, China > August 2-4, 2007 > Call for Paper and Participation > > Dear All, > > With three quarters of the world's public transport capital investment > in the coming two decades and a similar proportion of severe transport > problems, China requires the best possible intellectual, political, > and industrial support for its urban transport needs. The China Planning > Network has undertaken to organize the CPN Urban Transportation Congress in > Beijing, jointly with > ? Massachusetts Institute of Technology > ? China Association for Science and Technology > ? China Xinhua News Agency > > The Congress dates are Aug 2-4th, 2007. The venues are > ? Plenary conference: Great Hall of People, Beijing > ? Parallel sessions: Beijing International Conference Center > > The CPN Urban Transportation Congress will be the highest profile conference > ever held in China on urban transportation. The three day Congress will > feature over 100 presentations in the plenary conference and 12 parallel > sessions, and will welcome 1200~1500 participants, including academic > scholars and students from universities and research institutes; government > officials from the China Ministry of Communication, China Ministry of > Construction, and National Development and Reform Commission; mayors, > transportation directors and planning directors from major Chinese cities; > and transportation professionals from private industries. > > Please visit the CPN Congress website http://www.ChinaUrbanTransport.com/ > for more information. The Congress media include > ? Xinhua News Agency.Outlook Weekly > ? Xinhua News Agency.Globe Biweekly > ? Financial Times, Chinese > ? Economic observer > > The parallel sessions include > ? China National and Municipal Urban Transportation Policies > ? Managing Urban Congestion: Policies and Practices > ? Urban Transportation Planning: A Comparative Perspective-- Beijing, > London, New York, Chicago > ? Public Transportation: New Paradigm in China > ? Intelligent Transportation Systems and Urban Information Systems > ? Integrating Land Use and Transportation > ? Social Aspects of Urban Transportation > ? Green Transport: Cars, Energy, and Environment > ? Financing Urban Transportation Projects in China > ? Mobile Media and Urban Transportation > ? Mega Transportation Projects: International Experiences and > Cooperation > ? Interdisciplinary Transportation Education > > Invited speakers include > ? Prof. Joseph Sussman, MIT > ? Prof. Nigel Wilson, MIT > ? Prof. Ralph Gakenheimer, MIT > ? Prof. Karen Polenske, MIT > ? Prof. Joseph Ferreira, MIT > ? Prof. Adele Santos, MIT > ? Prof. Stephen Connors, MIT > ? Prof. Michael Meyer, Georgia Tech, Chairman of TRB > ? Prof. Vukan Vuchic, University of Pennsylvania > ? Mr. Dave Wetzel, Vice-Chair, Transport for London > ? Mr. Kirk Steudle, Michigan Department of Transportation Director > ? Dr. Deepak Bhattasali, Lead Economist, World Bank > ? Prof. Stephen Glaister, Imperial College, UK > ? Prof. Harry Dimitriou, University College London, UK > ? Prof. Robert Cervero, UC Berkeley > ? Mr. Sam Casella, Former President of AICP > ? Prof. Randall Crane, UCLA > ? Prof. Hugo Priemus, TU Delft, the Netherlands > ? Ms. Pamela L. Boswell, Vice President, American Public > Transportation > Association > ? Dr. Andres Rabinowicz, Vice President, Caliper Corporation > ? Prof. Ming Zhang, University of Texas at Austin > ? Prof. Zhong-Ren Peng, University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee > ? Mr. Daniel Yang, Austin's Capital Area Metropolitan Planning > Organization > ? Ms. Kelly Sims Gallagher, Director of the Energy Technology > Innovation > Project, KSG, Harvard University > ? Mr. Sam Zimmerman, Urban Transport Advisor, World Bank > ? Ms. Robin Chase, Founder and CEO of GoLoCo, Founder and Former CEO > of Zipcar > ? Prof. Frank Moss, Director of Media Lab, MIT (tbc) > ? Chancellor Phillip Clay, MIT (tbc) > ? Mr. John Flora, PIDG, Former Director of Urban Transport, World Bank > (tbc) > ? Mr. Neil D. Schuster, President and CEO, ITS America (tbc) > ? ...... > > In addition to the presentations by the invited speakers, the Congress will > accommodate 25~35 presentations from the Call for Papers. You are welcome to > attend the conference and to submit an original and high quality paper > around the topics of the 12 parallel sessions. The deadline for submitting > the abstract (no more than 250 words) is June 5th, 2007, and the full paper > is due July 10th, 2007. The paper should be written in English, and should > be no more than 7,000 words. Papers will be selected by a review committee > for conference presentation and publication in the proceedings. > > Together with the Congress, we are organizing 1) CPN World Transportation > School Admission Open House and 2) Roundtable Discussion with Beijing > Transportation Committee on Beijing 11th Five Year Transportation Planning > and 2020 Long term Plan. We will announce the details of the CPN Open House > and CPN Roundtable Discussion soon. > > Thank you very much for your support to China Planning Network. Please let > us know if you have any further questions/suggestions to the CPN Urban > Transportation Congress. We look forward to seeing you in Beijing this > summer. > > Best, > Ming Guo, Zhan Guo, Jinhua Zhao > Executive Commissioners > China Planning Network > > Faculty Advisor > Lawrence J. Vale, Head and Professor of Urban Design and Planning > Department of Urban Studies and Planning > Massachusetts Institute of Technology > > NOTE: > > The China Planning Network (CPN) has run three successful previous > conferences at Harvard in 2004, at MIT in 2005, and in Beijing in 2006. Last > year in Beijing, the China Planning Network 3rd Annual Conference featured > 116 presentations and discussions in nine parallel tracks. It welcomed over > 1000 participants, including 100 scholars, 100 mayors and planning > directors, a letter of congratulations from China's Vice-Premier Mr. Zeng > Peiyan, and a keynote speech by China Congress Vice-Chair Mr. Jiang Zhenhua. > > As MIT President Susan Hockfield wrote in a congratulatory letter to CPN in > 2006, "The China Planning Network has become a significant way for students, > faculty, and practitioners from the west to engage with the rapidly changing > development scene in China. Through the efforts of the China Planning > Network, MIT and the Department of Urban Studies and Planning (DUSP), > continue to lead the world to bring the advanced knowledge on urban planning > and development to bear on China's urbanization challenges." > > For information about CPN and the previous conferences, please visit: > www.ChinaPlanningNetwork.org > > Contact Methods: > Organizing Committee MIT Office: > Jinhua Zhao jinhua@mit.edu > Zhan Guo guozhan@mit.edu > Tel: (617) 230-4090 > Room 7-337, the Department of Urban Studies and Planning > Massachusetts Institute of Technology > Cambridge, MA, 02139 > U.S.A. > > Organizing Committee Beijing Office > Ming Guo Guoming@mit.edu > Tel: +86-(0)10-82150296 > Fax: +86-(0)10-82150269 > Block A, Room 505, Science Park Tower > Tsinghua Science Park > Beijing, China > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss > to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot > post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site > makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing > countries (the 'Global South'). > From regina at wholechoice.net Tue May 22 10:20:16 2007 From: regina at wholechoice.net (Gina Anderson) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 09:20:16 +0800 Subject: [sustran] Re: {Spam?} MIT China Planning Network Urban Transport Congress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070522092016.uwu8e7khmfc40o48@www.wholechoice.net> Excuse me, where are the sustainable transportation experts and professionals? Or is this more a large-scale introduction for western professionals to be able to gain consulting work in China? Gina Anderson -- Regina Anderson, AICP WholeChoice Master Planning, Pedestrian Design, Sustainability Singapore phone +65 6467-6594 Quoting Eric Britton : > On Behalf Of Jinhua Zhao > > MIT China Planning Network Urban Transportation Congress > Beijing, China > August 2-4, 2007 > Call for Paper and Participation > > Dear All, > > With three quarters of the world's public transport capital investment > in the coming two decades and a similar proportion of severe transport > problems, China requires the best possible intellectual, political, > and industrial support for its urban transport needs. The China Planning > Network has undertaken to organize the CPN Urban Transportation Congress in > Beijing, jointly with > ? Massachusetts Institute of Technology > ? China Association for Science and Technology > ? China Xinhua News Agency > > The Congress dates are Aug 2-4th, 2007. The venues are > ? Plenary conference: Great Hall of People, Beijing > ? Parallel sessions: Beijing International Conference Center > > The CPN Urban Transportation Congress will be the highest profile conference > ever held in China on urban transportation. The three day Congress will > feature over 100 presentations in the plenary conference and 12 parallel > sessions, and will welcome 1200~1500 participants, including academic > scholars and students from universities and research institutes; government > officials from the China Ministry of Communication, China Ministry of > Construction, and National Development and Reform Commission; mayors, > transportation directors and planning directors from major Chinese cities; > and transportation professionals from private industries. > > Please visit the CPN Congress website http://www.ChinaUrbanTransport.com/ > for more information. The Congress media include > ? Xinhua News Agency.Outlook Weekly > ? Xinhua News Agency.Globe Biweekly > ? Financial Times, Chinese > ? Economic observer > > The parallel sessions include > ? China National and Municipal Urban Transportation Policies > ? Managing Urban Congestion: Policies and Practices > ? Urban Transportation Planning: A Comparative Perspective-- Beijing, > London, New York, Chicago > ? Public Transportation: New Paradigm in China > ? Intelligent Transportation Systems and Urban Information Systems > ? Integrating Land Use and Transportation > ? Social Aspects of Urban Transportation > ? Green Transport: Cars, Energy, and Environment > ? Financing Urban Transportation Projects in China > ? Mobile Media and Urban Transportation > ? Mega Transportation Projects: International Experiences and > Cooperation > ? Interdisciplinary Transportation Education > > Invited speakers include > ? Prof. Joseph Sussman, MIT > ? Prof. Nigel Wilson, MIT > ? Prof. Ralph Gakenheimer, MIT > ? Prof. Karen Polenske, MIT > ? Prof. Joseph Ferreira, MIT > ? Prof. Adele Santos, MIT > ? Prof. Stephen Connors, MIT > ? Prof. Michael Meyer, Georgia Tech, Chairman of TRB > ? Prof. Vukan Vuchic, University of Pennsylvania > ? Mr. Dave Wetzel, Vice-Chair, Transport for London > ? Mr. Kirk Steudle, Michigan Department of Transportation Director > ? Dr. Deepak Bhattasali, Lead Economist, World Bank > ? Prof. Stephen Glaister, Imperial College, UK > ? Prof. Harry Dimitriou, University College London, UK > ? Prof. Robert Cervero, UC Berkeley > ? Mr. Sam Casella, Former President of AICP > ? Prof. Randall Crane, UCLA > ? Prof. Hugo Priemus, TU Delft, the Netherlands > ? Ms. Pamela L. Boswell, Vice President, American Public > Transportation > Association > ? Dr. Andres Rabinowicz, Vice President, Caliper Corporation > ? Prof. Ming Zhang, University of Texas at Austin > ? Prof. Zhong-Ren Peng, University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee > ? Mr. Daniel Yang, Austin's Capital Area Metropolitan Planning > Organization > ? Ms. Kelly Sims Gallagher, Director of the Energy Technology > Innovation > Project, KSG, Harvard University > ? Mr. Sam Zimmerman, Urban Transport Advisor, World Bank > ? Ms. Robin Chase, Founder and CEO of GoLoCo, Founder and Former CEO > of Zipcar > ? Prof. Frank Moss, Director of Media Lab, MIT (tbc) > ? Chancellor Phillip Clay, MIT (tbc) > ? Mr. John Flora, PIDG, Former Director of Urban Transport, World Bank > (tbc) > ? Mr. Neil D. Schuster, President and CEO, ITS America (tbc) > ? ...... > > In addition to the presentations by the invited speakers, the Congress will > accommodate 25~35 presentations from the Call for Papers. You are welcome to > attend the conference and to submit an original and high quality paper > around the topics of the 12 parallel sessions. The deadline for submitting > the abstract (no more than 250 words) is June 5th, 2007, and the full paper > is due July 10th, 2007. The paper should be written in English, and should > be no more than 7,000 words. Papers will be selected by a review committee > for conference presentation and publication in the proceedings. > > Together with the Congress, we are organizing 1) CPN World Transportation > School Admission Open House and 2) Roundtable Discussion with Beijing > Transportation Committee on Beijing 11th Five Year Transportation Planning > and 2020 Long term Plan. We will announce the details of the CPN Open House > and CPN Roundtable Discussion soon. > > Thank you very much for your support to China Planning Network. Please let > us know if you have any further questions/suggestions to the CPN Urban > Transportation Congress. We look forward to seeing you in Beijing this > summer. > > Best, > Ming Guo, Zhan Guo, Jinhua Zhao > Executive Commissioners > China Planning Network > > Faculty Advisor > Lawrence J. Vale, Head and Professor of Urban Design and Planning > Department of Urban Studies and Planning > Massachusetts Institute of Technology > > NOTE: > > The China Planning Network (CPN) has run three successful previous > conferences at Harvard in 2004, at MIT in 2005, and in Beijing in 2006. Last > year in Beijing, the China Planning Network 3rd Annual Conference featured > 116 presentations and discussions in nine parallel tracks. It welcomed over > 1000 participants, including 100 scholars, 100 mayors and planning > directors, a letter of congratulations from China's Vice-Premier Mr. Zeng > Peiyan, and a keynote speech by China Congress Vice-Chair Mr. Jiang Zhenhua. > > As MIT President Susan Hockfield wrote in a congratulatory letter to CPN in > 2006, "The China Planning Network has become a significant way for students, > faculty, and practitioners from the west to engage with the rapidly changing > development scene in China. Through the efforts of the China Planning > Network, MIT and the Department of Urban Studies and Planning (DUSP), > continue to lead the world to bring the advanced knowledge on urban planning > and development to bear on China's urbanization challenges." > > For information about CPN and the previous conferences, please visit: > www.ChinaPlanningNetwork.org > > Contact Methods: > Organizing Committee MIT Office: > Jinhua Zhao jinhua@mit.edu > Zhan Guo guozhan@mit.edu > Tel: (617) 230-4090 > Room 7-337, the Department of Urban Studies and Planning > Massachusetts Institute of Technology > Cambridge, MA, 02139 > U.S.A. > > Organizing Committee Beijing Office > Ming Guo Guoming@mit.edu > Tel: +86-(0)10-82150296 > Fax: +86-(0)10-82150269 > Block A, Room 505, Science Park Tower > Tsinghua Science Park > Beijing, China > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss > to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot > post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site > makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing > countries (the 'Global South'). > From carlos.pardo at sutp.org Wed May 23 07:42:58 2007 From: carlos.pardo at sutp.org (Carlos F. Pardo) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 17:42:58 -0500 Subject: [sustran] GTZ Photo resources Message-ID: <465371F2.40001@sutp.org> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070522/dee4e219/attachment.html From edelman at greenidea.info Sat May 26 04:47:35 2007 From: edelman at greenidea.info (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 21:47:35 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Latest figures on the urban bus fleet in the European Union Message-ID: <46573D57.4010502@greenidea.info> http://www.uitp.org/mos/pics/stats/survey_bus_fleet.pdf -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman edelman@greenidea.info Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net From binac at rediffmail.com Sun May 27 14:38:22 2007 From: binac at rediffmail.com (Bina C. Balakrishnan) Date: 27 May 2007 05:38:22 -0000 Subject: [sustran] Re: BRTS etc. in Mumbai Message-ID: <20070527053822.14154.qmail@webmail82.rediffmail.com> Dear All I apologise for not sending the link to the ppt on what we are doing in the transport sector of Mumbai. Its been up for quite a while, and the add is: http://www.missionmumbai.org/mtp/Portals/0/Sustran%20presentation.pdf I would appreciate any comments you may have. Best Bina On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 Bina C.Balakrishnan wrote : > > > > Alan, Brendan,and the rest, > >I apologise for the delay in responding to the mails on the >BRTS, >but we've been having long weekends with hard work in between >to >make up, so... priorities being what they are... > >Do visit the MTSU web-site: www.visionmumbai.org, and you >should >get a lot of answers to most of the questions you have, Alan. I >am >also going to put up a small presentation that I made a few >weeks >ago at the Pan IIT meeting in Mumbai on what we are doing on >the >transportation side, so that you all get an idea of?how we are >approaching things. The basic principle is "Resource >Optimisation" >- of the existing road transportation resources. I had not put >it >out on this forum earlier, because I thought it was a bit >premature, but here goes, anyway...! > >Brendan, I appreciate your good wishes, and hope we continue to >have the benefit of your opinion on our approaches. > >I shall let you know when the ppt is up - it will be a link >thru >the Vision Mumbai site. >Best, > >Bina > > >On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 Alan Howes wrote : > >Great minds ... > > > >I've just been reading the organisational bits of Bina's post > >rather more carefully. I still don't have a feel for how much > >clout the CWG has - OK the Gov of Maharashtra has accepted >the > >CWG report - but does that guarantee action (not just > >commissioning consultants, but committing to implementation). > >And on a matter of detail, Bina says - > >"we at the MTSU have already submitted our report to the > >Government of Maharashtra- as long back as the 6th of >February > >2007" > >and then > >"The CWG Report was formally presented on the 6th of >February, > >2007, to all the departments ..." > > > >So I assume the consultants have not yet been appointed. I >can't > >see them taking less than six months to report, and I would >guess > >at least nine months for implementation, even at Western rates >of > >action - what price bus lanes by the end of this year? > > > >Is the MTSU report the same as the CWG report? When was the >CWG > >formed? Sorry to ask so many questions! > > > >Regards, Alan > > > > > >-- > >Alan Howes > >Associate Transport Planner > >Colin Buchanan > >4 St Colme Street > >Edinburgh EH3 6AA > >Scotland > >email: alan.howes@cbuchanan.co.uk > > > >tel: (0)131 226 4693 (switchboard) > > (0)7952 464335 (mobile) > >fax: (0)131 220 0232 > >www: http://www.cbuchanan.co.uk/ Bina C. Balakrishnan Consultant Transportation Planning & Engineering Mumbai, India e-mail: binac@rediffmail.com Mobile : +91 98926 41341 Home : +91 22 23630572 Skype : binacb From Lew.Fulton at unep.org Wed May 30 22:54:55 2007 From: Lew.Fulton at unep.org (Lew Fulton) Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 16:54:55 +0300 Subject: [sustran] Seeking children worldwide to submit articles/stories/poems/pictures on Sustainable Transport In-Reply-To: <20070522092016.uwu8e7khmfc40o48@www.wholechoice.net> Message-ID: Hello all, UNEP is assisting this project (described below) by spreading the word; please also spread the word or even better, directly help find some kids who might be interested in particpating. Should be a great project. Lew Fulton _____________________________________ My name is Anna Kitteringham and I work for Peace Child International, a small educational charity based in the UK. I am currently working on a book about Sustainable Transport that will be written and edited entirely by children and young people and was hoping that you would like to be involved. I am looking for exciting articles, stories, poems, pictures and photographs from children and young people about transport where they live and how they travel to school. I would welcome contributions from anywhere in the world. There are lots of different topics to think about, all the information is also available on our website www.peacechild.org/transport. The best contributions will be published in a book for children. Everyone that enters work will receive a certificate and those that have contributions published will be sent a copy of the book. Some participants will be invited onto a virtual editorial board allowing them to give opinions on the books design and contents over the internet. Any help in disseminating this request or to collect contributions for this book would be greatly appreciated. All I need you to do is to spread the word about this project and to encourage as many people as possible to enter work for the book. I would really appreciate if you could ask all children and young people that you know to participate and would be delighted if you would contribute too. Many thanks, Anna Kitteringham Peace Child International