[sustran] Re: ADB in Viet Nam: Bring on the Asphalt!

[edelman at greenidea.eu]

Hi Zve, hi everyone..

> Todd,
>
> Thank you for forwarding that article on.
 I do not know enough about this
> proposed highway to have an opinion on whether or not it is an
> "appropriate"
> project for the region, but I do not share your "knee-jerk" hostility to
> it!

>
>>From a developed country perspective it is difficult to imagine just how
> important providing basic access is! How many agricultural regions are you
> familiar with which literally are not connected to anything? Without a
> road,
> a village has no way to join the rest of the world. This highway is not
> being built to serve passenger travel alone. When it is physically
> impossible to get things from point A to point B, then "environmental" and
> "sustainability" considerations will often receive less weight. And
> certainly when it is some westerner preaching that underdeveloped regions
> should stay that way!

IN my email I mentioned a rail corridor for long-distance, and I did not
imply that every farm or small factory would have to have its own siding,
though that of course would be ideal. I should have been clear that I
meant a railway as the core, the backbone. Appropriate roads are
absolutely necessary.

How could you infer that I think Vietnam should stay underdeveloped? In
fact I think I said I appreciated and wanted the opposite.

>
> Certainly many multi-national companies will be receiving generous
> contracts
> to execute the works, and it goes without saying that this will not help
> lower the already skyrocketing rates of motorization which Vietnam is
> experiencing.... A rail alternative would certainly be extremely expensive
> as well, but it would be far less practical in terms of providing access
> to
> a wide range of users throughout the area.... And it's not like the
> companies involved in providing this option would be local ones either.
>
> Vietnam is facing huge development challenges, and not only vis-a-vis
> motorized transportation. Take a look (with an open mind) at last week's
> leader in The Economist about rising food prices:
> http://economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10252015
>
> The ADB article itself specifies the reasons why a road is more
> appropriate
> than some other type of transportation connection:
>
> "It currently takes two days for passenger cars and three days for trucks
> to
> travel from Kunming, PRC to Ha Noi. Once the new highway is completed in
> 2012, drivers will be able to make the overland trip in less than one day.
>
> Reduced travel times will allow industries clustered around Ha Noi and
> Viet
> Nam's major port city, Hai Phong, to expand into the country's
> impoverished
> northwest region, increasing employment opportunities and social service
> access for communities along the highway corridor.
>
> The new highway will increase Viet Nam's ability to export agricultural
> and
> maritime products to Yunnan province, and beyond to the huge hinterland
> markets of southwestern PRC.
>
> The highway will provide shippers in Kunming with a new channel for the
> rapid shipment of products that depend on fast access to global markets,
> as
> Viet Nam's Hai Phong and Cai Lan ports are significantly closer to Kunming
> than Fangcheng port in Guangxi Province."

PLEASE tell me - leaving the initial expense part out of it - how a
highway can be better than a railway as the core of all of this? Russia
and the USA, despite all their other transportation mistakes, depend
heavily on railways for long-distance cargo.

Which companies are providing the oil used in asphalt? Vietnamese ones? I
don't think so. The lorries, the police cars, the fuel? Sure, if I owned
part of Siemens or Alstom I might want a subway to be built from Beijing
to Lhasa... I think we need to be wary of knee-jerk responses to proposals
for any kind of guided transport.

So, again, I was not I was saying against a transport corridor, but am
simply a little surprised that they got the cheap option, given the
growing problems with prices of oil, among other things. Sure, maybe they
will invest the hoped for wealth in railways, but in the meantime people
will be investing in vehicles for the roads.

All this asphalt in the absence of other infrastructure seems like one of
the bad examples some of us "Westerners" don't want to share. My criticism
was directed more at the ADB then at officials or others in Viet Nam.

Thanks,
T


>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Zvi
>
> On Dec 14, 2007 10:01 PM, <sustran-discuss-request at list.jca.apc.org>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 21:39:53 +0100
>> From: "Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory" <edelman at greenidea.eu>
>> Subject: [sustran] ADB in Viet Nam: Bring on the Asphalt!
>> To: Sustran Resource Centre <sustran-discuss at jca.apc.org>,   
sandy.chan at uitp.org  Editors
>>        Carbusters <editors at carbusters.org>, ,
>> ALLEN
>>        Heather <heather.allen at uitp.com>,       SAGEVIK Margrethe
>>        <sagevik at uic.asso.fr>
>> Message-ID: <4762EA19.4060703 at greenidea.eu>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ++++
>>
>>
>> WELL, at least they don't use the word "sustainable" anywhere in these
>> press releases... no mention of railway, BRT, buses, public transport,
>> etc. I imagine they would even if it was a small part of the scheme...
>> seems like a railway for long-distance would be a better idea, and buses
>> on the expressway.
>>
>> ... the documents linked to from here barely mention transport at all:
>> <
>> http://www.adb.org/Media/Articles/2007/12331-asian-climates-changes/default.asp
>> >
>>
>> CLEARLY creating more economic opportunities is important, but Japan and
>> the USA together own about 30% of the shares in the ADB, and it seems
>> like a good future is being created for lorry and private automobile
>> manufacturers and the oil industry...
>>
>> Please enlighten me - I am sure I am missing lots of important details.
>>
>> - T
>>
>> --
>> --------------------------------------------
>>
>> Todd Edelman
>> Director
>> Green Idea Factory
>>
>> Korunni 72
>> CZ-10100 Praha 10
>> Czech Republic
>>
>> Skype: toddedelman
>> ++420 605 915 970
>> ++420 222 517 832
>>
>> edelman at greenidea.eu
>> http://greenideafactory.blogspot.com/
>> www.flickr.com/photos/edelman
>>
>> Green Idea Factory is a member of World Carfree Network
>> www.worldcarfree.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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