[sustran] Re: More on Will maintenance keep 15-year old public transportbuses clean?

[Guevarra, Joselito Lomada]

Eric,

 

Foreign aid?! You must be joking right? The Philippines doesn't need aid
to keep their ageing buses running. Yes, you're right. I too would
choose to feed my family than care about the environment. But you see
the private operators in the Phils are not scraping by, they're making
huge profits by scrimping on maintenance, salaries and benefits of
drivers and bus conductors (the one who diligently collects the fares).
It is they who need the aid, not the bus companies. 

 

This is all interesting and we can go on with the technological fixes
and stuff but it ain't worth a dime unless governance reforms come
first. This is the most important thing and not finding out ways to keep
those filthy buses running.

 

Jojo 

 

  _____  

From: sustran-discuss-bounces+cvegjl=nus.edu.sg at list.jca.apc.org
[mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+cvegjl=nus.edu.sg at list.jca.apc.org] On
Behalf Of Eric Bruun
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 6:41 AM
To: Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport; 'Asia and the Pacific
sustainable transport'
Subject: [sustran] More on Will maintenance keep 15-year old public
transportbuses clean?

 

To add to what Walter said: 

 

I think that it is not the bus chassis so much that is at issue, but the
drive train. A bus that is not corroded and well-maintained can have a
new or rebuilt engine installed at mide-life and it will function
largely like a new one up to 15 years old. After that, they start to
have lots of other maintenance issues, as well, as the engine and
transmission. 

 

If it is not a purpose-built bus, but a truck chassis with a bus body
added, its life will be much shorter than 15 years, no matter what.
Anything without air suspension, and that frequently operates overloaded
will destroy both the chassis and the drive train.

 

Also, retrofitting a particulate trap onto the exhaust is one of the
single most important things to do! Particulates are where diesels are
inferior to petrol and CNG engines. This is the type of foriegn aid that
should be given immediately.

 

One more thing. It is unrealistic to expect a service that operates
without subsidies and where the owner/operator is living at a subistence
level to maintain buses well. If I were them, I would choose feeding my
family over cleaning the fuel injectors and air filters. So, pollution
can not be separated from the operating economics that prevail. In my
opinion, anyone who supports laizzez faire for public transport doesn't
care about the environment very much.

 

Eric Bruun


-----Original Message----- 
From: Walter Hook 
Sent: Feb 1, 2006 10:06 AM 
To: 'Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport' 
Subject: [sustran] Re: Fw: [cai-asia] Will maintenance keep 15-year
oldpublictransport buses clean? 

I am not an expert in this, but i do know that in most US cities transit
authorities receiving money from the US Federal Transit Admin must use
buses 10 years old or younger, after which they are sold to a company in
LA that parks them on a huge lot and sells them to smaller towns and
foreign countries.  What FTA says is that some 10 year old buses that
are well maintained are no more polluting than much newer buses, and
that the 10 year cut off is arbitrary and that simply testing the
tailpipe emissions and having road worthiness testing would be more
efficient, but enforcement of such measures seems to be beyond the
capacity of many countries and I would assume this includes the
Philippines, hence the need for a sub-optimal age restriction.  They can
probably resell the vehicles outside Manila where there are lower
concentrations of ambient air pollution. 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org at list.jca.apc.org
[mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org at list.jca.apc.org] On
Behalf Of Brendan Finn
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 4:00 AM
To: Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport
Subject: [sustran] Re: Fw: [cai-asia] Will maintenance keep 15-year
oldpublictransport buses clean?

 

Dear Aurora,

 

In my opinion, the simple answer is that a good preventive maintenance
regime will keep the buses a lot cleaner than they would be in the
absence of such a regime. I don't know what you define as "clean", I
would take the benchmark as the performance you should expect in the
first five years if the vehicle is maintained in line with the
manufacturer's recommendations. 

 

I presume the scenario refers either to an existing stock of buses or to
a proposal to buy in second-hand vehicles which are being replaced in
another country (perhaps currently 10-15 years old), and that there is
concern locally about the future emissions based on past experience with
the operators. At the risk of interfering where I don't know the
context, I would suggest that there are five factors which could assure
good performance from older vehicles : 

 

a) Clearly defined emission standards which are practical, realistic,
and measurable

b) An enforcement regime that can detect violating vehicles and impose
escalating penalties on their owners

c) A regime of preventive maintenance within the operating companies
that supports a vehicle throughout its working life (provide some
technical assistance if needed)

d) Sufficiently strong incentives for companies to include
emissions-related work and testing within such a regime

e) Incentives for operating companies to replace their vehicles when
good maintenance can no longer possible keep them within specifications
(and, of course, ensure that these vehicles are scrapped rather than
sold on somewhere else)

 

On one issue I would be cautious. In some places I have seen the
arguments about old or clean buses used as a pretext for other actions.
For example, I have seen it used to drive small operating companies and
owner-drivers off the road to the advantage of the state-owned
enterprises, and in other cases as criteria on routes tenders to quite
effectively eliminate the competition in the pre-qualification stages. I
think it is important to keep the agenda 'clean' as well as the buses!

 

If you assemble the various inputs into a briefing note, I would be
interested to receive it.

 

With best wishes, 

 

 

Brendan Finn. 

________________________________________________________________________
_____________
>From Brendan Finn, ETTS Ltd.   e-mail : etts at indigo.ie   tel :
+353.87.2530286

	----- Original Message ----- 

	From: aables at adb.org 

	To: sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org 

	Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 3:40 AM

	Subject: [sustran] Fw: [cai-asia] Will maintenance keep 15-year
old publictransport buses clean?

	 

	Dear SUSTRAN friends, 

	We thought you might have something to say on this topic. Please
see below. 

	Best regards, 

	Au 

	Aurora Fe Ables
	Transport Researcher
	Clean Air Initiative for Asian Cities (CAI-Asia)
	Asian Development Bank
	Tel (632) 632-4444 ext. 70820
	Fax (632) 636-2381
	Email aables at adb.org
	http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia
	
	www.adb.org 
	
	----- Forwarded by Aurora Ables/Consultants/ADB on 01-02-2006
11:27 AM ----- 

gbathan at adb.org 

01-02-2006 10:40 AM 

Please respond to
cai-asia at lists.worldbank.org

To

"Clean Air Initiative -- Asia" <cai-asia at lists.worldbank.org> 

cc

hfabian at adb.org, "Bebet Gozun" <bggozun at hotmail.com>, chuizenga at adb.org,
majero at adb.org, mrco at adb.org, aables at adb.org 

Subject

[cai-asia] Will maintenance keep 15-year old public transport buses
clean?

 

 

 

	
	
	
	
	Dear friends, 
	
	In a stakeholder meeting held in the Philippines last week,
CAI-Asia was asked to request inputs through the listserv to the
question -- "Will vehicle maintenance ensure that 15-year old public
transport buses remain non-polluting?" 15 years here means 15 years from
the date of engine manufacture. 
	
	Your inputs would be greatly appreciated. 
	
	Glynda 

	Glynda Bathan
	Coordinator
	Clean Air Initiative for Asian Cities (CAI-Asia)
	Asian Development Bank
	Tel (632) 632-5151
	Fax (632) 636-2381
	http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia
	
	www.adb.org 

	Aurora Fe Ables
	Transport Researcher
	Clean Air Initiative for Asian Cities (CAI-Asia)
	Asian Development Bank
	Tel (632) 632-4444 ext. 70820
	Fax (632) 636-2381
	Email aables at adb.org
	http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia
	
	www.adb.org 

	
  _____  


	
	
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	SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of
people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on
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