[sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'

[Viet Hung Khuat]

Good morning of a Vietnamese from Germany,
I am very happy when I can joint this discussion and many people are
discussing about the topic of my research. I promise that next year I will
bring to you some more detail information.
Thanks for Craig's comments, but I would like to make some explainations on
that as follows:
1. Regarding the fuel consumption: I am my self a motorcyclist, I have a
normal Japanese moped (HONDA DREAM II 100 cc). Every week I have to pay
about VND 12.000 (80 US Cent) for gasoline (about 2 litter), the total trip
length is aboout 120-150 km/week. So, I guest that you will have your own
calculation with your car. So, what is cheaper?. In addition, I need only
1m2 for parking this MC.  
2. If you go to Vietnam, you will see many beutiful lady riding on
motorcycle. Most of parents are bringing their child to school with
motorcycle. For multipurpose, you may know that the Vietnamese got win from
the first Vietnam War (With French) by the bicycle logistics system. So, I
may happy to send you some pictures about the freight motorcycle if you
want.
3. Your third discussion may be right with mentioning about the growth of
middle class in such country like Thailand or Vietnam. I would like to add
more here that in Vietnam or Thailand there is thinking among people and
even political that "Walkers are poor",  so, we should find other way to do
with NMV.
4. Again, I would like to bring the social attitude to add into your
discussion. In Singapore, the current thinking of people is different from
Thai or Vietnam. As you may recorgnized that after 40 years of many
Congestion Reducing Efforts, the pedestrian zone is just adopted in
Singapore. So, I guest that the mind of people in Singapore in 1970 or 1980
is similar to Thai and Vietnamese today. I am agree that there are some ones
in Thailand or Vietnam may have better attitude toward NMV, but they are few
and have no power. On the other hand, the son of Primeminister Phan Van Khai
started his car business in 2003. So, what should we do?
Best regards,
HUNG
> I would like to add a few points to this great discussion:
> 
> 1. This discussion is being carried out based on observations rather than 
> systematic or empirical research, thus it is hard to assess any claim such
> as motorcycles contribute more/less than other modes to the use of energy,
> fatalities, etc, in a given city in comparison with other cities or within
> a city. If anyone knows of such research, references would help the 
> discussion. Some data collected on Asian cities indicate that petrol use
> in 
> Bangkok is higher per capita than in any other city surveyed in Asia 
> (including Tokyo, Singapore, Hong Kong), so it would be hard to argue that
> the proliferation of motorcycles has contributed to energy efficiency of 
> the transport system as a whole (although perhaps in outer suburban areas 
> they may be better than buses).
> 
> 2. Motorcycles are a mode catering to individual travel and are hence less
> useful than some other modes to activities involving travel by multiple 
> individuals and individuals carrying things. In some cities this could 
> translate into a bias against women who are often responsible for looking 
> after children and carrying goods (while men may be doing more individual 
> commuting to and from the workplace). Empirical data on sex and motorcycle
> use would help.
> 
> 3. It is hard to know whether Thailand's particular class system is a
> cause 
> or a consequence of transport conditions. (i.e. are non-motorized
> transport 
> conditions poor because the users of that infrastructure are people with 
> low social status or are they forced to use that infrastructure because 
> they have low social status?) One argument for the proposition that 
> "non-motorized transport conditions are poor because the users of that 
> infrastructure are people with low social status" is that high status 
> people in Bangkok do walk, but it is in air conditioned, privatized spaces
> such as shopping malls. (This activity is not picked up in the travel 
> survey data.) Also, a large and growing segment of the upper middle class 
> and wealthy social strata in Bangkok now pay to walk on treadmills! (See 
> the second floor health club at the intersection of Soi Convent and Silom 
> Road!)
> 
> 4. While the heat and humidity certainly make walking outside in Bangkok 
> uncomfortable and tiring, I don't believe they are sufficient to explain 
> the remarkably low levels of walking recorded in travel surveys. In other 
> cities such as Singapore where it is a little hotter and more humid people
> (both foreign visitors and locals) walk a lot more than in Bangkok 
> (although probably far less than they would if sidewalk conditions and 
> distances were the same but the temperature was significantly cooler). A 
> danger in the argument given by many people in Thailand that they are 
> culturally-programmed not to walk (and that their culture cannot change)
> is 
> that no attempt is made to provide decent public sidewalks or even to halt
> the continuing deterioration in quality and quantity. The only significant
> recent sidewalk improvement measures in Bangkok have been undertaken in 
> areas catering for rich locals and tourists or in areas linked to luxury 
> shopping centres.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Craig Townsend
> 
> 
> At 09:12 AM 24/08/2004, you wrote:
> >Hallo,
> >I am fully agree with Karl about the issue of walkway occupancy by MC
> Taxi.
> >But I have here discussions as follows:
> >1. There is no consideration of government and experts about the
> intermodal
> >facilities between MC taxi and Public transport.
> >2. No concern about where should be the park or waiting place for MC taxi
> >while most of the activities centers have taxi waiting area.
> >3. Regarding the trip length: we should consider the weather conditions
> in
> >Bangkok or Hanoi, it is different from most of European countries. So,
> the
> >ASEAN people may do not want to walk on this condition.
> >4. If we have no MC taxi, It would be worse if 10% the passengers will
> use
> >the PC, 40% will use the PC-taxi, even the rest 50%  will use the NMV for
> >their paratransit trip.
> >Sincerely,
> >HUNG
> > > One of the downsides is that motorcycle taxis tend to lounge around
> and
> > > park
> > > on walkways, and ride on walkways for at least part of their journey,
> > > honking aggressively to clear away those bothersome pedestrians.
> Further,
> > > the areas they congregate in tend to be more concentrated areas of
> > > pedestrian activity such as major bus stops, markets, etc. In Bangkok
> it's
> > > common for them to cordon off areas near a bus stop to the detriment
> of
> > > waiting bus passengers - e.g. in front of Pata Pinklao. Not to mention
> the
> > > noise and air pollution they contribute, often in areas with lots of
> > > people
> > > which already suffer noise and air pollution (there's been an
> interesting
> > > debate on noise pollution recently in Bangkok following data released
> by
> > > the
> > > Env Ministry).
> > >
> > > Another consideration is that many of the motorcylce taxi trips in
> Bangkok
> > > are within an easy walking distance - if only there was a navigable,
> > > pleasant walkway. If conditions for short distance trips by walking
> were
> > > improved, the demand for motorcycle taxis would diminish. Also, where
> > > trips
> > > are too long to walk, bicycles could easily substitute for motorcycle
> > > taxis
> > > for many trips, if only secure parking areas and other forms of
> > > encouragement were provided for cycling. Such measures need not cost a
> > > lot.
> > >
> > > But there seems to be little interesting in encouraging alternatives
> to
> > > motorcycle taxis, and this leads to the point that the motorcycle taxi
> > > industry is also a major contributor to corruption, by most estimates
> > > contributing tens of millions of dollars each year in pay-offs to
> police
> > > and
> > > others. It's great to have these motorcycle taxi services in outlying
> > > areas
> > > where otherwise no other service might be available, but the real
> issue is
> > > their presence in congested urban areas. They can play a valuable role
> as
> > > Jonathan outlines. However, at least in Bangkok which I'm more
> familiar
> > > with, encouraging walking and cycling and improved bus routings as an
> > > alternative to motorcycle taxis wherever possible, and strictly
> > > prohibiting
> > > motorcycle taxis from parking or driving on walkways, would have many
> > > benefits.
> > >
> > > Regards, Karl
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: sustran-discuss-bounces+karl=dnet.net.id at list.jca.apc.org
> > > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+karl=dnet.net.id at list.jca.apc.org] On
> > > Behalf
> > > Of Jonathan E. D. Richmond
> > > Sent: Monday, 23 August 2004 11:18 PM
> > > To: Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport
> > > Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
> > >
> > >
> > > It is a mistake to assume that official public transport will
> necessarily
> > > result in the consumption of less fuel than motorbike taxis or that it
> can
> > > replace them in many instances. A bike operating on demand in a
> suburban
> > > area can be considerably more efficient than buses circulating most of
> the
> > > day almost empty.
> > >
> > > In fact, many motorbike services do operate as public transport --
> > > charging
> > > about the same fare but providing a level of frequency not possible
> with
> > > buses. For low-income people living in outlying suburbs, there may be
> no
> > > alternative if density is inufficient for more formal operations -- in
> > > fact,
> > > in many cases, the bikes actually operate from bus stops and provide
> > > services to locations not served by buses.
> > >
> > > So we have to be careful about making generalizations.
> > >
> > > Note that in my case the alternative to taking a motorbike, which I
> > > frequently use to complete a journey after a bus or train ride, would
> be
> > > to
> > > take a regular taxi for the whole journey as it would simply take too
> long
> > > otherwise.
> > >
> > >                                             --jonathan
> > >
> > > -----
> > >
> > > Jonathan E. D. Richmond                               02 524-5510
> (office)
> > > Visiting Fellow                               Intl.: 662 524-5510
> > > Transportation Engineering program
> > > School of Civil Engineering, Room N260B               02 524-8257
> (home)
> > > Asian Institute of Technology                 Intl.: 662 524-8257
> > > PO Box 4
> > > Klong Luang, Pathumthani 12120                        02 524-5509
> (fax)
> > > Thailand                                      Intl:  662 524-5509
> > >
> > > e-mail: richmond at ait.ac.th               Secretary:  Ms. Nisarat
> Hansuksa
> > >         richmond at alum.mit.edu                       02 524-6051
> > >                                             Intl:  662 524-6051
> > > http://the-tech.mit.edu/~richmond/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >--
> >****************************************
> >Khuat Viet Hung, M.Eng
> >(C/o: Prof. Manfred Boltze)
> >Institut fuer Verkehr, TU Darmstadt
> >Petersenstrasse 30, 64287 Darmstadt, Deutschland
> >Tel. : + 49-6151-16 2026
> >Fax:  + 49-6151-16 2045
> >
> >NEU: Bis zu 10 GB Speicher für e-mails & Dateien!
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> 
> 

-- 
****************************************
Khuat Viet Hung, M.Eng
(C/o: Prof. Manfred Boltze)
Institut fuer Verkehr, TU Darmstadt
Petersenstrasse 30, 64287 Darmstadt, Deutschland
Tel. : + 49-6151-16 2026
Fax:  + 49-6151-16 2045

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