[sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'

[Karl Fjellstrom]

Thanks for the feedback and discussion.... Wanted to query one idea. Just
because a service is poor, or unregulated, or unsafe, or environmentally
unsound, does that necessarily mean it must be 'good for the poor'? Why
can't the 'poor' have a high quality transit service with high quality
pedestrian & bicycle access and supported by supplementary options such as
motorcycle taxis where needed?

For example: in Pattaya, Thailand, 'the poor' have for years been held
ransom by the paratransit (van and motorcycle taxi) mafia. Earlier this year
for 3 months a quality bus service was introduced, a small circular route
featuring three 25 seater minibuses, a contra-flow bus lane, timetable,
passenger information, comfortable seating, low emissions, a polite & well
trained driver, and other innovations focusing on providing a good service.
In short, everything the paratransit service wasn't. The service operated
for 3 months, charging a flat fare of 5 baht (about US$0.12). Actually they
wanted to provide it for free, as the full cost of the service was covered
by advertising on the bus. But the paratransit mafia wouldn't let them. It
was very popular with the locals, and was used for more than 3,000 trips
daily. The strong focus of the service was on meeting needs of low income
locals. Service was offered late into the night and they wanted to operate
the service up to 2.30am but again the paratransit mafia intervened to
insist they stopped operating at midnight (the bars close at 2am). They
wanted to extend the service to more residential areas, and to extend it
beyond the initial 3 month period, but again were stopped by the paratransit
mafia and their govt proxies. This is the same paratransit that simply turfs
out local passengers if a wealthy tourist happens along. The paratransit
combination of vans and motorcycle taxis often (not always, often they are
great) offers a similarly high cost and poor level of service for low income
residents in Chiang Mai, but attempts to provide better services are
resisted by the van/ mc taxi mafia. 

I don't go along with Jonathan's idea that walking and cycling is
inappropriate for Bangkok and neither does a leading Governorial candidate,
Apirak Kosayodhin, who is campaigning on a platform of Bus Rapid Transit,
and wide walkways and bicycle lanes along all new roads (elections on 29th
August...).

Regards, Karl

PS: Guangzhou by the way is banning motorcycles from next year. Main concern
was security, they perceived a high level of crime associated with
motorcycles. Another concern is the way the motorcycles taxis park and ride
all over the walkways. This has led to a sudden spurt in bicycle purchases,
as m/c riders for the moment at least go back to bicycles.

-----Original Message-----
From: sustran-discuss-bounces+karl=dnet.net.id at list.jca.apc.org
[mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+karl=dnet.net.id at list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf
Of Viet Hung Khuat
Sent: Tuesday, 24 August 2004 10:22 PM
To: Anil K. Raut; Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'

Hallo Anil,
It is nice to see yuor dicussion. However, we should consider some points as
follows:
1. The MC Taxis in BKK are mainly serving the Thai who really have lower
income than any foregn tourists but high quaily in Thai language.
2. In between 20-50 years the city like Hanoi, New Dehli or som other cities
have no money to provide enough Mass Transit Serivice.
What are the alternatives? and What is the cheapeast one?
Have a nice day,
HUNG
> Very interesting debate. There are many points, I need to address on 
> the discussions.
> 
> First: Jonathan. You mentioned the positive role of these 'bike-taxis' 
> on the streets of Bangkok. This was what I assumed when I saw them on 
> the streets of Bangkok. I was even trying to ride one. But I was not 
> familiar
with
> the city and these drivers were not good enough on English. So there 
> was a high chance that I could be taken to unwanted area. I gave up the
idea.
> 
> Another point is: I am not talking about the higher share of these 
> bike-taxis on public transport. There is obviously role for
mass-transport. I just
> wanted to see what could be role of these bike-taxis on a balanced 
> modal-split. I am not pushing this forward but it is good have idea on
what is
> going on around the world and importantly WHY it is happening, what 
> are
the
> driving forces. We could then localise these knowledge and plan our 
> city accordingly.
> 
> I agree with Jonathan's point. 'A bike operating on demand in a 
> suburban area can be considerably more efficient than buses 
> circulating most of the day almost empty.' This was also my 
> observation which forced me to think about the possibility of 
> bike-taxis. I am not saying; mass-transport will consume less fuel than
bike. I was intended to say what you mentioned.
Bike
> taxi can consume less fuel (and space) than a car-taxi with almost 
> most of time with single occupancy. BUT, there is certain role of mass
transit.
Bike
> taxi should not be alternative to the mass-transit rather to their 
> supplement.
> 
> Second: Mr. Mehta. I do agree with you in all ways. Yes, the oil price 
> has been going up and this has already creating problem in our country 
> in terms of revenue. We are advocating for alternative energy (which 
> are
available
> within our country- hydropower) and its use in transportation sector. 
> Till now electric vehicles are bit costly than fossil fuel vehicles. 
> But I guess a time will come, when the fossil fuel price will be 
> higher than
electric
> and we could easily promote electric vehicles. This is what the market 
> drive. At this time, we can not just push the entrepreneurs to go for
electric
> vehicles. They will obviously go for low cost options. However, we 
> have already more than 600 electric three-wheelers in Kathmandu. And 
> possibly
in
> future the share of electric transport will be increased (trolley, trams).
> 
> But as I said earlier, this was what I intended to look for various 
> options. Our goal is the effective transport management with less 
> emission overall. For that we need to explore both the long and short 
> term
possibilities.
> 
> Karl: Thanks for adding more point to understand the Bangkok 
> bike-taxis. I know they were being parked within the walkways. But 
> don't you think this is a management problem rather than the 
> particular mode? I would love to know more about the Bangkok taxis 
> from you. If there has been any study on the impact on environment,
transport management due to these taxis.
> 
> The discussion is being interesting. Any additional thoughts????
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Anil K. Raut
> ----------------------------
> Anil K. Raut
> P. O. Box 8846
> Kathmandu, NEPAL
> E-mail: ankraut at wlink.com.np; anil at environmentnepal.com.np
> Tel: 977-1-4232761 (Res.)/977-9841233941 (Mobile)
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Karl Fjellstrom 
>   To: 'Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport' 
>   Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 8:44 AM
>   Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
> 
> 
>   One of the downsides is that motorcycle taxis tend to lounge around 
> and park
>   on walkways, and ride on walkways for at least part of their journey,
>   honking aggressively to clear away those bothersome pedestrians.
> Further,
>   the areas they congregate in tend to be more concentrated areas of
>   pedestrian activity such as major bus stops, markets, etc. In 
> Bangkok it's
>   common for them to cordon off areas near a bus stop to the detriment of
>   waiting bus passengers - e.g. in front of Pata Pinklao. Not to 
> mention the
>   noise and air pollution they contribute, often in areas with lots of 
> people
>   which already suffer noise and air pollution (there's been an 
> interesting
>   debate on noise pollution recently in Bangkok following data 
> released by the
>   Env Ministry).
> 
>   Another consideration is that many of the motorcylce taxi trips in 
> Bangkok
>   are within an easy walking distance - if only there was a navigable,
>   pleasant walkway. If conditions for short distance trips by walking were
>   improved, the demand for motorcycle taxis would diminish. Also, 
> where trips
>   are too long to walk, bicycles could easily substitute for 
> motorcycle taxis
>   for many trips, if only secure parking areas and other forms of
>   encouragement were provided for cycling. Such measures need not cost 
> a lot.
> 
>   But there seems to be little interesting in encouraging alternatives to
>   motorcycle taxis, and this leads to the point that the motorcycle taxi
>   industry is also a major contributor to corruption, by most estimates
>   contributing tens of millions of dollars each year in pay-offs to 
> police and
>   others. It's great to have these motorcycle taxi services in 
> outlying areas
>   where otherwise no other service might be available, but the real 
> issue is
>   their presence in congested urban areas. They can play a valuable 
> role as
>   Jonathan outlines. However, at least in Bangkok which I'm more familiar
>   with, encouraging walking and cycling and improved bus routings as an
>   alternative to motorcycle taxis wherever possible, and strictly 
> prohibiting
>   motorcycle taxis from parking or driving on walkways, would have many
>   benefits.
> 
>   Regards, Karl
> 
> 
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: sustran-discuss-bounces+karl=dnet.net.id at list.jca.apc.org
>   [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+karl=dnet.net.id at list.jca.apc.org] 
> On Behalf
>   Of Jonathan E. D. Richmond
>   Sent: Monday, 23 August 2004 11:18 PM
>   To: Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport
>   Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
> 
> 
>   It is a mistake to assume that official public transport will 
> necessarily
>   result in the consumption of less fuel than motorbike taxis or that 
> it can
>   replace them in many instances. A bike operating on demand in a suburban
>   area can be considerably more efficient than buses circulating most 
> of the
>   day almost empty.
> 
>   In fact, many motorbike services do operate as public transport -- 
> charging
>   about the same fare but providing a level of frequency not possible with
>   buses. For low-income people living in outlying suburbs, there may be no
>   alternative if density is inufficient for more formal operations -- 
> in fact,
>   in many cases, the bikes actually operate from bus stops and provide
>   services to locations not served by buses.
> 
>   So we have to be careful about making generalizations.
> 
>   Note that in my case the alternative to taking a motorbike, which I
>   frequently use to complete a journey after a bus or train ride, 
> would be to
>   take a regular taxi for the whole journey as it would simply take 
> too long
>   otherwise.
> 
>                                               --jonathan
> 
>   -----
> 
>   Jonathan E. D. Richmond                               02 524-5510
> (office)
>   Visiting Fellow                               Intl.: 662 524-5510
>   Transportation Engineering program
>   School of Civil Engineering, Room N260B               02 524-8257 (home)
>   Asian Institute of Technology                 Intl.: 662 524-8257
>   PO Box 4
>   Klong Luang, Pathumthani 12120                        02 524-5509 (fax)
>   Thailand                                      Intl:  662 524-5509
> 
>   e-mail: richmond at ait.ac.th               Secretary:  Ms. Nisarat
> Hansuksa
>           richmond at alum.mit.edu               02 524-6051
>         Intl:  662 524-6051
>   http://the-tech.mit.edu/~richmond/
> 
> 
> 
> 

--
****************************************
Khuat Viet Hung, M.Eng
(C/o: Prof. Manfred Boltze)
Institut fuer Verkehr, TU Darmstadt
Petersenstrasse 30, 64287 Darmstadt, Deutschland Tel. : + 49-6151-16 2026
Fax:  + 49-6151-16 2045

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