From paulbarter at nus.edu.sg Tue Aug 3 16:55:12 2004
From: paulbarter at nus.edu.sg (Barter, Paul)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 15:55:12 +0800
Subject: [sustran] Fwd: IHT Man versus machine on Beijing's streets
Message-ID: <00876017F2EE604292F94DA40323E4751B35AC@MBOX02.stf.nus.edu.sg>
International Herald Tribune
http://www.iht.com/articles/532224.html
Meanwhile: Man versus machine on Beijing's streets
Philip J. Cunningham
IHT Tuesday, August 3, 2004
BEIJING The courage of ordinary Beijing citizens never ceases to elicit
wonder. Fifteen years ago, the populace stood in the way of tanks and
soldiers, desperately trying to preserve a civic space they lived in and
loved. Today, pedestrians can still be seen playing chicken with heavy,
groaning vehicles in singular, random acts of defiance. They are
standing up to the onslaught of sport utility vehicles and black-tinted
limousines that herald the arrival of a two-class society in the
People's Republic - those with cars and those without.
.
For every incessant horn honker, speed demon and oil-dripping car
blocking a sidewalk, there's a stubborn pushcart vendor, an overflowing
fruit stand and a floating curbside chess game making right-of-way
claims to the same lanes and public thoroughfares.
.
Tempers, especially in the torrid summer weather, are hot and rising.
It's a David-versus-Goliath struggle in which society's poor and less
advantaged put their humble selves in the way of imperious traffic.
Resistance is risky, perhaps futile, but a compromise may grow out of
the conflict. First-generation drivers, perhaps a bit giddy and
overenthusiastic behind the wheel, are confronted daily with reminders
that the streets do not belong to them alone.
.
A widely reported saga in which a wealthy car owner ran over and killed
a defiant pedestrian with impunity was not an isolated case. And the
explosion of interest in the story on the Internet shows it touched a
raw nerve. China has an appalling accident rate, resulting in more road
deaths than the United States with only a fraction of the cars.
.
Gasoline-burning vehicles not only degrade air quality and pose physical
dangers, but are altering a centuries-old way of life.
.
Reaction to the brave, new motor world is mixed, a combination of
beating it and joining it. The carless sneer with both envy and
resentment at the self-important nouveau car owners, once bare-chested
bicyclists like themselves. But a country with China's population cannot
attain or sustain a one-car-per-family lifestyle.
.
China's standard response in the face of the unknown - building a wall -
has been in evidence, but rendered ineffectual because of state support
for car-owners' claims of right of way.
.
Oddly, parking lots are the one ingredient of car culture that have been
largely overlooked in the rush to imitate the West. As a result, car
chaos is rampant.
.
Crossing streets has been dangerous in Beijing for quite some time,
given the incessant road widening and traffic volume, but only in the
past few years have the generally well-appointed sidewalks become danger
zones - part parking lot, part service road, crowded with impatient cars
and angry cyclists who have been squeezed out of the bicycle lanes by
bigger vehicles.
.
One day, while trying to squeeze past an illegally parked sport utility
vehicle that forced pedestrians to walk in the street, I asked the
driver, as she opened the door of her vehicle with a proud flourish of
the keys, why she had parked on the sidewalk. "Because there's no place
to park." What she meant of course, was that there was no place to park
in front of the hamburger restaurant she had just exited, though there
was ample street parking a short distance away.
.
During the conflict of 1989, Beijing residents frightened by the
humiliation of imminent military occupation erected makeshift roadblocks
of sticks, stones, bricks and branches on major arteries leading into
the city, making a gesture against the inevitable. Even when armored
personnel carriers and tanks reached the perimeter of Tiananmen Square,
makeshift barricades and tank traps were hastily erected with metal
poles, cement chunks and bricks. An echo of this can be seen in the
attempts today to slow the commercial automotive onslaught - a few
bricks or bottles here, a broken paving stone or some rubbish there,
unmenacing enough to be driven over, around, dispersed or pulverized.
.
The Great Wall of China, erected at unimaginable human expense, failed
to slow the historic waves of barbarian advance, but it remains a
testament to the human stubbornness and pride, the desire to protect a
way of life under threat. This time around there is no Great Wall to
keep the hordes of metallic steeds at bay, but notice has been served.
The streets and most especially the back alleys, will not be yielded
without resistance.
.
Philip J. Cunningham is freelance journalist based in Beijing.
[forwarded for education and research purposes]
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From ecoplan.adsl at wanadoo.fr Tue Aug 3 22:54:34 2004
From: ecoplan.adsl at wanadoo.fr (ecoplan.adsl@wanadoo.fr)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 15:54:34 +0200
Subject: [sustran] WBCSD report - Report Contributions
Message-ID: <000001c47961$697a7c40$6501a8c0@home>
Tuesday, August 03, 2004, Paris, France, Europe
Our reference: http://newmobility.org, WBCSD
Peer review
Dear Friends,
While there is certainly considerably more to say and more that we will
be hearing from you over the next several weeks under the headings of
(a) General Comments and (b) Targeting/Errors/Omissions for our WBCSD
Peer Review, it will be useful to turn to the last two rubrics that we
have here to develop our thoughts and comments: (c) WBCSD Report
Contributions and (d) Recommendations/Next Steps. It is this last to
which I hope we shall be giving the most thought and creative
interaction of the sort that only a forum such as this can hope to
provide. But before we get to that, I would now like to ask you if you
spotted any strong ideas that appear in their report that they or
someone else should be pursuing.
In this regard, let me assure you that we now have the full attention of
the report's sponsors, and while based on long past experience I would
doubt that we will be hearing from them directly at this point, as we
frame these important comments and recommendations let us bear in mind
that our common objective is to turn them into a powerful instrument for
sustainability in general and the drive to sustainable mobility more
particularly.
Before turning to the full report, I would like to list briefly a
handful of point that I found to be potential value in their 29 page
Overview Report. After many pages of hopping about with various
unsurprising comments on their chosen scenarios, projections and "seven
(who can argue) goals toward which we believe society should strive",
the report on page 25 finally gets down to something we can maybe work
with by way of, they call them, "opportunities"). Let me quote them in
the order they appear:
1. ". important opportunities for increased utilization of bus and
bus-like: systems (including paratransit)."
2. ". new information technologies into these bus-like systems"
3. ". important potential for new patterns of vehicle ownership and
use (such as carsharing) to become integral parts of the mobility system
in many areas."
4. "An alternative strategy is to adapt the technological and
economic characteristics of the transport systems to fit the living
choices of the public."
5. "Moving toward sustainable mobility will involve paying as much
attention to institutional frameworks as to (. the inherent potential of
any vehicle technology or fuel or the theoretical 'effectiveness' of
"'ineffectiveness' of any particular policy lever or action.)"
6. ". we can support efforts to encourage new approaches to
providing improved mobility opportunities in urbanized areas (i.e.,
carsharing, paratransit, and new mobility systems."
Hmm. If we are looking for areas in which they should now be
concentrating some of their considerable resources in the sector hat
does so nicely for them, I would like to suggest that they are giving us
some encouraging signals here which we might now want to pursue.
Moreover on the closing page, they invite "us" to do just this .
"And in reviewing the conclusions of their work. the companies have
looked at what could be done to accelerate progress on the goals beyond
the extensive and diverse actions on which they are already engaged.
There are clearly opportunities, but they must sensibly be the result of
wider consultation both within the companies and with others. We
therefore need to debate both internally and with a range of
stakeholders to determine where and how to best focus our activity."
Excellent. Let us consider this as a fine start. And now it is time
for us to do as they have asked, and help them figure out what they
should be putting resources and brainpower behind now to make real
contributions in the troubling area of sustainable mobility. where the
contributions are needed and possible in the months and years directly
ahead, and not out there in 2030.
Your reactions?
Eric Britton
PS. Gentlemen, we have a real fundamental problem which certainly is
influencing our level of understanding and lucidity in the analysis and
recommendations. And that is we are grossly underrepresented in this
assembly in terms of female colleagues. And while it is clearly not
going to be possible for us to reverse this, may I say, stupid state of
affairs in the weeks directly ahead, my bet is that if each of you put
your mind and networks to it, we can at least start to do better in this
important department, thanks to your recommendations. We males simply
miss so much (or as one of my favorite authors so nicely put it: "blind
by choice").
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From caj24 at cornell.edu Tue Aug 3 23:21:31 2004
From: caj24 at cornell.edu (Craig August Johnson)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 10:21:31 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sustran] International Road Area Comparision
In-Reply-To: <000001c47961$697a7c40$6501a8c0@home>
References: <000001c47961$697a7c40$6501a8c0@home>
Message-ID: <46523.137.132.3.9.1091542891.squirrel@webmail.cornell.edu>
Hello all,
I was just wondering if anyone knows where I could find statistics that
"measures road area (km) per 1,000 residents" of major international
cities. I had a statistic from JICA report that said that Hanoi has only
.17km of road per 1000 residents and I think that is quite low compared to
other cities.
Thanks,
Craig Johnson
From dguruswamy at hotmail.com Fri Aug 6 10:04:16 2004
From: dguruswamy at hotmail.com (Dharm Guruswamy)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 21:04:16 -0400
Subject: [sustran] Fw: More on BRT in the land of casinos...
Message-ID:
Well Eric its just like you to back anyone who bashes BRT.
There is going to be a huge gap between the number of projects in the FFGA (Full Funing Grant Agreement) pipeline and the number that can be funded. If there is no increase in the gasoline tax, no more than five (and that's the top number) new projects will be approved in the next five year period. Even with a modest increase in the gasoline tax (and assuming 20% goes to the mass transit account of the Highway Trust Fund, and the new starts program continues to get its historical share), you won't see more than 10 projects approved. When you compare that with the several dozen projects in the pipeline you understand there is a gross mismatch of need to resources. BRT projects can helpe bridge this huge imbalance.
So now lets look at MAX, it uses new vehicles, signal priority and custom built stations on a already heavily traveled bus line that travels through a landscape that is very sprawling. It's the right technology for the corridor, as is BRT for MOST corridors in the US. Generally, wherever BRT projects have been implemented travel times have gone down and ridership has gone up. Isn't that the goal we are all looking to get to?
I also stand by my statement because anyone who has seen a Civis in operation knows that it does not belch smoke. It is in fact so clean that it will meet FUTURE EPA emission requirements. Yes, its a bus but it has many railike attributes and in the end perception often trumps reality.
----- Original Message -----
From: Eric Bruun
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 2:51 PM
Subject: More on BRT in the land of casinos...
Dharm
I think you are being too hard on John. Just like you react to people being too quick to bash BRT, he reacts to people being too quick to say that BRT is just as good LRT in almost all circumstances. I, too, take exception to what I think is overselling of BRT by the FTA and by others. We are all in favor of better bus systems, but Express buses on the highway are no substitute for rail through built-up area. The term BRT is being thrown around quite loosely and broadly.
John did qualify his statement by mentioning that ridership should be high to justify LRT. Where he definitely did bash the Civis was to talk about it belching smoke. But it certainly is very wrong and goes too far to say that "he does not understand the issues".
Eric
----- Original Message -----
From: Dharm Guruswamy
To: CONS-SPST-SPRAWL-TRANS@LISTS.SIERRACLUB.ORG
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [sustran] BRT in the land of casinos...
Lets put this in context. I did some research on MAX. Firstly the ENTIRE start up cost was less than $20 million. Yes, the CIVIS vehicles are expensive but they have a crush capacity of 120 not 100 as you asserted. Also these Civis vehicles are diesel electric hybrids.. when compared to standard diesel buses, they produce less pollution, get better fuel economy and are quieter. These vehicles do look like rail vehicles.. and my guess is the $1 million price tag will go down over time as more are ordered.
Secondly, the MAX is going to replace an existing bus route that carries 9,000 passengers a day. Service will be operated about every 15 minutes.. we are not talking about a corridor that justifies rail yet.. or one in which can begin to justify spending the additional capital on light rail and begin to show any reasonable rate of return based on labor costs savings.
I'm tired of people who bash BRT and don't really understand the issues. For the vast majority of transit corridors in the US, BRT represents the best bang for the buck.
----- Original Message -----
From: AUREJOHN@AOL.COM
Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 12:03 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [sustran] BRT in the land of casinos...
Busways are a useful component in the transit toolbox.
A good characteristic is that buses can operate on the "stem" of the busway and then branch out into neighborhoods, providing a "one-seat ride." A rail system would need shuttle buses from stations to serve the same area.
While a dedicated roadway costs about as much as a dedicated trackway, buses can be operated "on sight" at 60 mph while it would be foolish to operate an intensive rail service at this speed without an expensive signal system. Another expensive component, usually included with rail but rare with buses is electrification.
A down side of busways is, if you have enough passenger volume to justify a special road you will be hiring a lot of drivers. An articulated bus has a capacity of around 100 passengers while a 3-car LR train carries about 400. Either vehicle requires one driver.
A regular bus costs around 1/4 million, an artic is (say) 1/2 million; an LR car costs around 2.5 million. The LR car will last twice as long as the bus. Lifetime capital cost per passenger "place" is about double for LR (but remember the savings in driver cost).
The announcement suggests that the "BRT" in Vegas will use a fancy bus, styled to fool folks into thinking it's equal to a rail car, and equipped with guidance so it'll come to a precision stop at stations. It'll cost twice as much as a standard bus (lifetime capital cost per passenger place equivalent to LR). But in the end, it's still a bus.
It will require one driver per 100 (or less) passengers capacity. It will be noisy, especially if you sit over the engine. It will belch diesel smoke.
I'm not saying busways are a "bad thing," but they aren't "the best thing since sliced bread," either.
J. Aurelius
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - To view the Sierra Club List Terms & Conditions, see: http://www.sierraclub.org/lists/terms.asp
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Make your voice heard! Find out how to get Take Action Alerts and other important Sierra Club messages by email at: http://www.sierraclub.org/email
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Make your voice heard! Find out how to get Take Action Alerts and other important Sierra Club messages by email at: http://www.sierraclub.org/email
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From francis at chu.com Fri Aug 6 08:44:12 2004
From: francis at chu.com (francis@chu.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 07:44:12 +0800
Subject: [sustran] introducing bicycling to SIngapore---can you help?
Message-ID: <000e01c47b46$1dbe3b70$a35abada@sharon>
My friend's company is preparing a project proposal to the Singapore
Government. The project is about creating bicycle friendly environment
and encouraging the use of bicycle as a form of daily commuting.
The project is looking for a (few) expert consultants in the area of
re-introducing bicycle into urban area like Singapore. This is a
project-based (2~6 weeks) arrangement. If you are willing to help, or,
if you know of anyone can help please send the contact information to me
(chuwasg@yahoo.com)
Francis Chu
Senior Consultant (Design & Innovation)
Philips Electronic Singapore Pte. Ltd.
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From ericbruun at earthlink.net Sat Aug 7 00:53:26 2004
From: ericbruun at earthlink.net (Eric Bruun)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 11:53:26 -0400
Subject: [sustran] Re: BRT Bashing.
References:
Message-ID: <000001c47bce$7d688de0$d2fb45cf@earthlink.net>
Dharm
I didn't back the BRT bashing, I acknowledged it. I just asked you to recognize that some people working with LRT think that it is getting bashed a lot, and that they push back. I gave the example of LRT critics who compare the cost of running express buses along the freeways around Houston with building a rail line that goes right through built up areas. These two services meet entirely different needs.
I support BRT, in fact, any improvements to bus services, no matter what it is called. The point you make, and rightly so, is that BRT has enough capacity for most corridors. But the point I keep trying to make is that BRT is being pushed even where it does not. It is also being pushed where the right-of-way doesn't exist or the vehicle headways would be so short that Transit Signal Priority would not work.
I also fully agree that there is not enough money available (even in a rich country like the US) to build even all of the the most strongly justified rail lines which are being planned. Many places should give up on their LRT plans and do BRT. Do we really have a large disagreement?
Eric
----- Original Message -----
From: Dharm Guruswamy
To: sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 9:04 PM
Subject: [sustran] Fw: More on BRT in the land of casinos...
Well Eric its just like you to back anyone who bashes BRT.
There is going to be a huge gap between the number of projects in the FFGA (Full Funing Grant Agreement) pipeline and the number that can be funded. If there is no increase in the gasoline tax, no more than five (and that's the top number) new projects will be approved in the next five year period. Even with a modest increase in the gasoline tax (and assuming 20% goes to the mass transit account of the Highway Trust Fund, and the new starts program continues to get its historical share), you won't see more than 10 projects approved. When you compare that with the several dozen projects in the pipeline you understand there is a gross mismatch of need to resources. BRT projects can helpe bridge this huge imbalance.
So now lets look at MAX, it uses new vehicles, signal priority and custom built stations on a already heavily traveled bus line that travels through a landscape that is very sprawling. It's the right technology for the corridor, as is BRT for MOST corridors in the US. Generally, wherever BRT projects have been implemented travel times have gone down and ridership has gone up. Isn't that the goal we are all looking to get to?
I also stand by my statement because anyone who has seen a Civis in operation knows that it does not belch smoke. It is in fact so clean that it will meet FUTURE EPA emission requirements. Yes, its a bus but it has many railike attributes and in the end perception often trumps reality.
----- Original Message -----
From: Eric Bruun
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 2:51 PM
Subject: More on BRT in the land of casinos...
Dharm
I think you are being too hard on John. Just like you react to people being too quick to bash BRT, he reacts to people being too quick to say that BRT is just as good LRT in almost all circumstances. I, too, take exception to what I think is overselling of BRT by the FTA and by others. We are all in favor of better bus systems, but Express buses on the highway are no substitute for rail through built-up area. The term BRT is being thrown around quite loosely and broadly.
John did qualify his statement by mentioning that ridership should be high to justify LRT. Where he definitely did bash the Civis was to talk about it belching smoke. But it certainly is very wrong and goes too far to say that "he does not understand the issues".
Eric
----- Original Message -----
From: Dharm Guruswamy
To: CONS-SPST-SPRAWL-TRANS@LISTS.SIERRACLUB.ORG
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [sustran] BRT in the land of casinos...
Lets put this in context. I did some research on MAX. Firstly the ENTIRE start up cost was less than $20 million. Yes, the CIVIS vehicles are expensive but they have a crush capacity of 120 not 100 as you asserted. Also these Civis vehicles are diesel electric hybrids.. when compared to standard diesel buses, they produce less pollution, get better fuel economy and are quieter. These vehicles do look like rail vehicles.. and my guess is the $1 million price tag will go down over time as more are ordered.
Secondly, the MAX is going to replace an existing bus route that carries 9,000 passengers a day. Service will be operated about every 15 minutes.. we are not talking about a corridor that justifies rail yet.. or one in which can begin to justify spending the additional capital on light rail and begin to show any reasonable rate of return based on labor costs savings.
I'm tired of people who bash BRT and don't really understand the issues. For the vast majority of transit corridors in the US, BRT represents the best bang for the buck.
----- Original Message -----
From: AUREJOHN@AOL.COM
Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 12:03 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [sustran] BRT in the land of casinos...
Busways are a useful component in the transit toolbox.
A good characteristic is that buses can operate on the "stem" of the busway and then branch out into neighborhoods, providing a "one-seat ride." A rail system would need shuttle buses from stations to serve the same area.
While a dedicated roadway costs about as much as a dedicated trackway, buses can be operated "on sight" at 60 mph while it would be foolish to operate an intensive rail service at this speed without an expensive signal system. Another expensive component, usually included with rail but rare with buses is electrification.
A down side of busways is, if you have enough passenger volume to justify a special road you will be hiring a lot of drivers. An articulated bus has a capacity of around 100 passengers while a 3-car LR train carries about 400. Either vehicle requires one driver.
A regular bus costs around 1/4 million, an artic is (say) 1/2 million; an LR car costs around 2.5 million. The LR car will last twice as long as the bus. Lifetime capital cost per passenger "place" is about double for LR (but remember the savings in driver cost).
The announcement suggests that the "BRT" in Vegas will use a fancy bus, styled to fool folks into thinking it's equal to a rail car, and equipped with guidance so it'll come to a precision stop at stations. It'll cost twice as much as a standard bus (lifetime capital cost per passenger place equivalent to LR). But in the end, it's still a bus.
It will require one driver per 100 (or less) passengers capacity. It will be noisy, especially if you sit over the engine. It will belch diesel smoke.
I'm not saying busways are a "bad thing," but they aren't "the best thing since sliced bread," either.
J. Aurelius
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - To view the Sierra Club List Terms & Conditions, see: http://www.sierraclub.org/lists/terms.asp
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Make your voice heard! Find out how to get Take Action Alerts and other important Sierra Club messages by email at: http://www.sierraclub.org/email
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Make your voice heard! Find out how to get Take Action Alerts and other important Sierra Club messages by email at: http://www.sierraclub.org/email
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From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Wed Aug 11 01:07:32 2004
From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric.britton@ecoplan.org)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 18:07:32 +0200
Subject: [sustran] We have a major problem here,
and you can help to set it right.
Message-ID: <001301c47ef4$26897880$6501a8c0@home>
Tuesday, August 10, 2004, Paris, France, Europe
Dear Colleagues,
We have a major problem here, and you can help to set it right.
I have just inspected the listing of the hundreds of us who are sharing
our information and thoughts on these matters of sustainable development
and sustainable mobility more specifically, and I note a dangerous
anomaly. We are more than 90% male in this forum
Is this a trivial fact of 21st century life? Unavoidable? Neither. In
fact, it has long been my belief that one of the main reasons why we
have failed over all these years to create better and softer mobility
systems in our cities is that we have de facto turned over the job to
taskforces almost entirely of men, and not only that men who went to
college to learn how to move volumes fast and 'efficiently' in rather
undifferentiated ways. We have, I have to say, created an almost all
male transportation paradigm.
We need help and we're lucky -- it is right at hand. So let's start
with this forum and let me ask each of you to take the time to send me
the names and emails of at least two capable female colleagues whom we
can bring into our considerations and achieve the kind of balance which
has been needed behind the wise decision making in our field for far too
long.
Incidentally, if we can find ways to tempt in people with backgrounds
that extend beyond the usual limits of the traditionally dominant
fields, and in particular in such areas as cultural anthropology,
behavioral psychology, community relations, and public health, I think
we would be able to make real progress. (Of course we have to make it
interesting for them, but it's my theory that once we open these doors
they will figure out how to do this for themselves. And change us all
in the process.
(I wonder how many of you are going to accept this challenge. ;-)
Eric Britton
The Commons: Increasing the uncomfort zone for hesitant administrators
and politicians; pioneering new concepts for business, entrepreneurs,
activists, community groups, and local government; and through our joint
efforts, energy and personal choices, placing them and ourselves firmly
on the path to a more sustainable and more just society.
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From sujit at vsnl.com Wed Aug 11 03:24:09 2004
From: sujit at vsnl.com (Sujit Patwardhan)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 23:54:09 +0530
Subject: [sustran] Re: We have a major problem here,
and you can help to set it right.
In-Reply-To: <001301c47ef4$26897880$6501a8c0@home>
References: <001301c47ef4$26897880$6501a8c0@home>
Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.0.20040810235153.0317ea20@mail.vsnl.com>
10 August 2004
Eric,
Couldn't agree more with you. Let's make a special effort and get more
female members (interested in Transportation Issues) on board.
--
Sujit
At 09:37 PM 8/10/2004, you wrote:
>Tuesday, August 10, 2004, Paris, France, Europe
>
> Dear Colleagues,
>
>We have a major problem here, and you can help to set it right.
>
>I have just inspected the listing of the hundreds of us who are sharing
>our information and thoughts on these matters of sustainable development
>and sustainable mobility more specifically, and I note a dangerous
>anomaly. We are more than 90% male in this forum
>
>Is this a trivial fact of 21st century life? Unavoidable? Neither. In
>fact, it has long been my belief that one of the main reasons why we have
>failed over all these years to create better and softer mobility systems
>in our cities is that we have de facto turned over the job to taskforces
>almost entirely of men, and not only that men who went to college to learn
>how to move volumes fast and 'efficiently' in rather undifferentiated
>ways. We have, I have to say, created an almost all male transportation
>paradigm.
>
>We need help and we're lucky -- it is right at hand. So let's start with
>this forum and let me ask each of you to take the time to send me the
>names and emails of at least two capable female colleagues whom we can
>bring into our considerations and achieve the kind of balance which has
>been needed behind the wise decision making in our field for far too long.
>
>Incidentally, if we can find ways to tempt in people with backgrounds that
>extend beyond the usual limits of the traditionally dominant fields, and
>in particular in such areas as cultural anthropology, behavioral
>psychology, community relations, and public health, I think we would be
>able to make real progress. (Of course we have to make it interesting for
>them, but it's my theory that once we open these doors they will figure
>out how to do this for themselves. And change us all in the process.
>
>(I wonder how many of you are going to accept this challenge. ;-)
>
>Eric Britton
>
>The Commons: Increasing the uncomfort zone for hesitant administrators and
>politicians; pioneering new concepts for business, entrepreneurs,
>activists, community groups, and local government; and through our joint
>efforts, energy and personal choices, placing them and ourselves firmly on
>the path to a more sustainable and more just society.
>
>
>
Sujit Patwardhan
sujit@vsnl.com
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From kisansbc at vsnl.com Wed Aug 11 21:08:34 2004
From: kisansbc at vsnl.com (Kisan Mehta)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 17:38:34 +0530
Subject: [sustran] Re: We have a major problem here,
and you can help to set it right.
References: <001301c47ef4$26897880$6501a8c0@home>
Message-ID: <010901c47f9b$ecfa46a0$3226020a@im.eth.net>
Dear Eric and colleagues,
Reason for less participation by females may be our networking becoming too technical and too location specific. Transportation has many more faces than technical and economic. Discussions in the internet hover around these aspects.
In our discussions we forget that social and psychological aspects are more important. In the poor countries the feeling of being alienated by resorting to high sounding technological aspects makes the common man and there women ignoring the issues. They become victims of the tyranny of technology and economics.
Inthe male dominated government that, we have developed and are voraciously guarding, all high posts are occupied by men denying access to women.
In the poor countries, in choosing the modes of traffic for travel, it is the man's preference that gets higher priority. If stricken with no money, the money will be used by the man for his choice of mode of traffic while the woman is left to lower mode and somtimes to walking. If the family is taking the first car, it is normal to register in the man's name and he is given sole charge though the costs are debited to the family income.
Participation, I am afraid, will most likely remain male dominated even if all of us introduce two female potential participants. Can we change the focus to more social aspect which in fact is the base for transportation. Best wishes.
Kisan Mehta
Rwel: 00 91 22 2414 9688
----- Original Message -----
From: eric.britton@ecoplan.org
To: WorldTransport@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Sustran-discuss@jca.ax.apc.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 9:37 PM
Subject: [sustran] We have a major problem here,and you can help to set it right.
Tuesday, August 10, 2004, Paris, France, Europe
Dear Colleagues,
We have a major problem here, and you can help to set it right.
I have just inspected the listing of the hundreds of us who are sharing our information and thoughts on these matters of sustainable development and sustainable mobility more specifically, and I note a dangerous anomaly. We are more than 90% male in this forum
Is this a trivial fact of 21st century life? Unavoidable? Neither. In fact, it has long been my belief that one of the main reasons why we have failed over all these years to create better and softer mobility systems in our cities is that we have de facto turned over the job to taskforces almost entirely of men, and not only that men who went to college to learn how to move volumes fast and 'efficiently' in rather undifferentiated ways. We have, I have to say, created an almost all male transportation paradigm.
We need help and we're lucky -- it is right at hand. So let's start with this forum and let me ask each of you to take the time to send me the names and emails of at least two capable female colleagues whom we can bring into our considerations and achieve the kind of balance which has been needed behind the wise decision making in our field for far too long.
Incidentally, if we can find ways to tempt in people with backgrounds that extend beyond the usual limits of the traditionally dominant fields, and in particular in such areas as cultural anthropology, behavioral psychology, community relations, and public health, I think we would be able to make real progress. (Of course we have to make it interesting for them, but it's my theory that once we open these doors they will figure out how to do this for themselves. And change us all in the process.
(I wonder how many of you are going to accept this challenge. ;-)
Eric Britton
The Commons: Increasing the uncomfort zone for hesitant administrators and politicians; pioneering new concepts for business, entrepreneurs, activists, community groups, and local government; and through our joint efforts, energy and personal choices, placing them and ourselves firmly on the path to a more sustainable and more just society.
-------------- next part --------------
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From etts at indigo.ie Wed Aug 11 21:22:59 2004
From: etts at indigo.ie (Brendan Finn)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 13:22:59 +0100
Subject: [sustran] Re: We have a major problem here,
and you can help to set it right.
References: <001301c47ef4$26897880$6501a8c0@home>
<010901c47f9b$ecfa46a0$3226020a@im.eth.net>
Message-ID: <00de01c47f9d$f0b17050$0101a8c0@fujitsu83p69tb>
Dear Kisan and Eric,
I think Kisan's points are interesting.
I would also add that style and tone of discussions may also have something to do with it. Guys tend to seek victory in their participation, whether through "robust argument", inflicting crushing defeat on the opposition, or carefully structured arguments designed to show futility of alternative viewpoints. Not everyone considers this to be 'discussion', and some will avoid participation in what they perceive to be a gladiatorial pit.
Just a thought :o)
Brendan Finn.
_______________________________________________________________________
Contact details are : e-mail : etts@indigo.ie tel : +353.87.2530286
----- Original Message -----
From: Kisan Mehta
To: Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:08 PM
Subject: [sustran] Re: We have a major problem here,and you can help to set it right.
Dear Eric and colleagues,
Reason for less participation by females may be our networking becoming too technical and too location specific. Transportation has many more faces than technical and economic. Discussions in the internet hover around these aspects.
In our discussions we forget that social and psychological aspects are more important. In the poor countries the feeling of being alienated by resorting to high sounding technological aspects makes the common man and there women ignoring the issues. They become victims of the tyranny of technology and economics.
Inthe male dominated government that, we have developed and are voraciously guarding, all high posts are occupied by men denying access to women.
In the poor countries, in choosing the modes of traffic for travel, it is the man's preference that gets higher priority. If stricken with no money, the money will be used by the man for his choice of mode of traffic while the woman is left to lower mode and somtimes to walking. If the family is taking the first car, it is normal to register in the man's name and he is given sole charge though the costs are debited to the family income.
Participation, I am afraid, will most likely remain male dominated even if all of us introduce two female potential participants. Can we change the focus to more social aspect which in fact is the base for transportation. Best wishes.
Kisan Mehta
Rwel: 00 91 22 2414 9688
----- Original Message -----
From: eric.britton@ecoplan.org
To: WorldTransport@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Sustran-discuss@jca.ax.apc.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 9:37 PM
Subject: [sustran] We have a major problem here,and you can help to set it right.
Tuesday, August 10, 2004, Paris, France, Europe
Dear Colleagues,
We have a major problem here, and you can help to set it right.
I have just inspected the listing of the hundreds of us who are sharing our information and thoughts on these matters of sustainable development and sustainable mobility more specifically, and I note a dangerous anomaly. We are more than 90% male in this forum
Is this a trivial fact of 21st century life? Unavoidable? Neither. In fact, it has long been my belief that one of the main reasons why we have failed over all these years to create better and softer mobility systems in our cities is that we have de facto turned over the job to taskforces almost entirely of men, and not only that men who went to college to learn how to move volumes fast and 'efficiently' in rather undifferentiated ways. We have, I have to say, created an almost all male transportation paradigm.
We need help and we're lucky -- it is right at hand. So let's start with this forum and let me ask each of you to take the time to send me the names and emails of at least two capable female colleagues whom we can bring into our considerations and achieve the kind of balance which has been needed behind the wise decision making in our field for far too long.
Incidentally, if we can find ways to tempt in people with backgrounds that extend beyond the usual limits of the traditionally dominant fields, and in particular in such areas as cultural anthropology, behavioral psychology, community relations, and public health, I think we would be able to make real progress. (Of course we have to make it interesting for them, but it's my theory that once we open these doors they will figure out how to do this for themselves. And change us all in the process.
(I wonder how many of you are going to accept this challenge. ;-)
Eric Britton
The Commons: Increasing the uncomfort zone for hesitant administrators and politicians; pioneering new concepts for business, entrepreneurs, activists, community groups, and local government; and through our joint efforts, energy and personal choices, placing them and ourselves firmly on the path to a more sustainable and more just society.
-------------- next part --------------
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From i-ce at cycling.nl Wed Aug 11 22:51:40 2004
From: i-ce at cycling.nl (i-ce@cycling.nl)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:51:40 +0200
Subject: [sustran] Re: We have a major problem here,
and you can help to set it right.
In-Reply-To: <00de01c47f9d$f0b17050$0101a8c0@fujitsu83p69tb>
Message-ID: <411A408C.280.17EC0CD@localhost>
Dear all,
I understand what Brendan means. I will give you all, as a woman and
as an "outsider" my point of view.
I am a woman and urban designer, interested in cycling (and walking).
The sustran-Discussions seem to me sometimes very personal and
based on own experiences rather than on broad experience. (Like: I
once was in the bus in..... and I noticed). Please note that I mentioned
sometimes ;-)
I am not a traffic engineer. For me there is much more to life than
sustainable transport. The Bogota story is about public space. I know
the BRT system there is a wide success and without a BRT system you
won't be able to create space for pedestrians and cyclists, but a really
important part of the model is the importance of public space for
society.
When you think of adding topic to invite more people: we receive
already lots of emails when it is only about busses. Maybe it is already
existing without me noticing it, but what about a website where you can
place discussion document (it takes more time to prepare, to think and
the opportunity to leave out offences) and people can react to that.
These discussions can be one specific topics. The emails are only to let
everybody know that there is something new and interesting to find
there about....
Well, that was it for this female urban designer.
Kind regards to all of you.
Danielle Wijnen
On 11 Aug 2004 at 13:22, Brendan Finn wrote:
>
> Dear Kisan and Eric,
>
> I think Kisan's points are interesting.
>
> I would also add that style and tone of discussions may also have something to do with it. Guys
> tend to seek victory in their participation, whether through "robust argument", inflicting crushing
> defeat on the opposition, or carefully structured arguments designed to show futility of alternative
> viewpoints. Not everyone considers this to be 'discussion', and some will avoid participation in
> what they perceive to be a gladiatorial pit.
>
> Just a thought :o)
>
>
> Brendan Finn.
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Contact details are : e-mail : etts@indigo.ie tel : +353.87.2530286
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kisan Mehta
> To: Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport
> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:08 PM
> Subject: [sustran] Re: We have a major problem here,and you can help to set it right.
>
> Dear Eric and colleagues,
>
> Reason for less participation by females may be our networking becoming too technical and too
> location specific.Transportation has many more facesthan technical and economic. Discussions
> in the internet hover around these aspects.
>
> In our discussions we forget that social and psychological aspects are more important.In the poor
> countries the feeling of being alienated by resorting to high sounding technological aspects makes
> the common man and there women ignoring the issues. They become victims of the tyranny of
> technology and economics.
>
> Inthe male dominated government that, we have developed and are voraciously guarding, all high
> posts are occupied by men denying access to women.
>
> In the poor countries, in choosingthe modes of traffic for travel, it is the man's preference that
> gets higher priority. If stricken with no money, the money will be used by the man for his choice of
> mode of traffic while the woman is left to lower mode and somtimes to walking. If the family is
> taking the first car, it is normal to register in the man's name and he is given solecharge though
> the costs are debited to the family income.
>
> Participation, I am afraid, will most likely remain male dominated even if all of us introducetwo
> female potential participants. Can we change the focus to more social aspect which in fact is the
> base for transportation. Best wishes.
>
> Kisan Mehta
> Rwel: 00 91 22 2414 9688
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: eric.britton@ecoplan.org
> To: WorldTransport@yahoogroups.com
> Cc: Sustran-discuss@jca.ax.apc.org
> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 9:37 PM
> Subject: [sustran] We have a major problem here,and you can help to set it right.
>
> Tuesday, August 10, 2004, Paris, France, Europe
>
> Dear Colleagues,
>
> We have a major problem here, and you can help to set it right.
>
> I have just inspected the listing of the hundreds of us who are sharing our
> information and thoughts on these matters of sustainable development and
> sustainable mobility more specifically, and I note a dangerous anomaly. We are
> more than 90% male in this forum
>
> Is this a trivial fact of 21st century life? Unavoidable? Neither. In fact, it has long
> been my belief that one of the main reasons why we have failed over all these years
> to create better and softer mobility systems in our cities is that we have de facto
> turned over the job to taskforces almost entirely of men, and not only that men who
> went to college to learn how to move volumes fast and ?efficiently? in rather
> undifferentiated ways. We have, I have to say, created an almost all male
> transportation paradigm.
>
> We need help and we?re lucky -- it is right at hand. So let?s start with this forum and
> let me ask each of you to take the time to send me the names and emails of at least
> two capable female colleagues whom we can bring into our considerations and
> achieve the kind of balance which has been needed behind the wise decision making
> in our field for far too long.
>
> Incidentally, if we can find ways to tempt in people with backgrounds that extend
> beyond the usual limits of the traditionally dominant fields, and in particular in such
> areas as cultural anthropology, behavioral psychology, community relations, and
> public health, I think we would be able to make real progress. (Of course we have to
> make it interesting for them, but it?s my theory that once we open these doors they
> will figure out how to do this for themselves. And change us all in the process.
>
> (I wonder how many of you are going to accept this challenge. ;-)
>
> Eric Britton
>
> The Commons: Increasing the uncomfort zone for hesitant administrators and politicians;
> pioneering new concepts for business, entrepreneurs, activists, community groups, and local
> government; and through our joint efforts, energy and personal choices, placing them and ourselves
> firmly on the path to a more sustainable and more just society.
>
>
>
>
***************************************************
I-ce = Interface for Cycling Expertise
New adress: Trans 3
3512 JJ Utrecht
The Netherlands
tel: +31 30 230 4521
fax: +31 30 231 2384
email: i-ce@cycling.nl
www.cycling.nl
***************************************************
From pardinus at yahoo.com Wed Aug 11 22:59:39 2004
From: pardinus at yahoo.com (Carlos Felipe Pardo V.)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 06:59:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sustran] Re: We have a major problem here,
and you can help to set it right.
In-Reply-To: <411A408C.280.17EC0CD@localhost>
Message-ID: <20040811135939.81619.qmail@web20325.mail.yahoo.com>
I think the topic of gender is interesting. In Bogotá we have done research on why the people who are part of a transport organization are mainly men, and found really nice things, especially when we saw the specific cases in which women were managers or drivers of bus companies.
Thus, the same reflection applied to this group might prove more interesting. Why is it that women don't participate in these things? Does someone have any research on women's relationship with the topic of transport? Is it the same gender-biased question as is "Why don't men like cutting flowers and smelling them?" I'm willing to do some research on thie first topic (being a psychologist), want to join me?
Just another thought,
i-ce@cycling.nl wrote:
Dear all,
I understand what Brendan means. I will give you all, as a woman and
as an "outsider" my point of view.
I am a woman and urban designer, interested in cycling (and walking).
The sustran-Discussions seem to me sometimes very personal and
based on own experiences rather than on broad experience. (Like: I
once was in the bus in..... and I noticed). Please note that I mentioned
sometimes ;-)
I am not a traffic engineer. For me there is much more to life than
sustainable transport. The Bogota story is about public space. I know
the BRT system there is a wide success and without a BRT system you
won't be able to create space for pedestrians and cyclists, but a really
important part of the model is the importance of public space for
society.
When you think of adding topic to invite more people: we receive
already lots of emails when it is only about busses. Maybe it is already
existing without me noticing it, but what about a website where you can
place discussion document (it takes more time to prepare, to think and
the opportunity to leave out offences) and people can react to that.
These discussions can be one specific topics. The emails are only to let
everybody know that there is something new and interesting to find
there about....
Well, that was it for this female urban designer.
Kind regards to all of you.
Danielle Wijnen
On 11 Aug 2004 at 13:22, Brendan Finn wrote:
>
> Dear Kisan and Eric,
>
> I think Kisan's points are interesting.
>
> I would also add that style and tone of discussions may also have something to do with it. Guys
> tend to seek victory in their participation, whether through "robust argument", inflicting crushing
> defeat on the opposition, or carefully structured arguments designed to show futility of alternative
> viewpoints. Not everyone considers this to be 'discussion', and some will avoid participation in
> what they perceive to be a gladiatorial pit.
>
> Just a thought :o)
>
>
> Brendan Finn.
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Contact details are : e-mail : etts@indigo.ie tel : +353.87.2530286
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kisan Mehta
> To: Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport
> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:08 PM
> Subject: [sustran] Re: We have a major problem here,and you can help to set it right.
>
> Dear Eric and colleagues,
>
> Reason for less participation by females may be our networking becoming too technical and too
> location specific.Transportation has many more facesthan technical and economic. Discussions
> in the internet hover around these aspects.
>
> In our discussions we forget that social and psychological aspects are more important.In the poor
> countries the feeling of being alienated by resorting to high sounding technological aspects makes
> the common man and there women ignoring the issues. They become victims of the tyranny of
> technology and economics.
>
> Inthe male dominated government that, we have developed and are voraciously guarding, all high
> posts are occupied by men denying access to women.
>
> In the poor countries, in choosingthe modes of traffic for travel, it is the man's preference that
> gets higher priority. If stricken with no money, the money will be used by the man for his choice of
> mode of traffic while the woman is left to lower mode and somtimes to walking. If the family is
> taking the first car, it is normal to register in the man's name and he is given solecharge though
> the costs are debited to the family income.
>
> Participation, I am afraid, will most likely remain male dominated even if all of us introducetwo
> female potential participants. Can we change the focus to more social aspect which in fact is the
> base for transportation. Best wishes.
>
> Kisan Mehta
> Rwel: 00 91 22 2414 9688
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: eric.britton@ecoplan.org
> To: WorldTransport@yahoogroups.com
> Cc: Sustran-discuss@jca.ax.apc.org
> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 9:37 PM
> Subject: [sustran] We have a major problem here,and you can help to set it right.
>
> Tuesday, August 10, 2004, Paris, France, Europe
>
> Dear Colleagues,
>
> We have a major problem here, and you can help to set it right.
>
> I have just inspected the listing of the hundreds of us who are sharing our
> information and thoughts on these matters of sustainable development and
> sustainable mobility more specifically, and I note a dangerous anomaly. We are
> more than 90% male in this forum
>
> Is this a trivial fact of 21st century life? Unavoidable? Neither. In fact, it has long
> been my belief that one of the main reasons why we have failed over all these years
> to create better and softer mobility systems in our cities is that we have de facto
> turned over the job to taskforces almost entirely of men, and not only that men who
> went to college to learn how to move volumes fast and ‘efficiently’ in rather
> undifferentiated ways. We have, I have to say, created an almost all male
> transportation paradigm.
>
> We need help and we’re lucky -- it is right at hand. So let’s start with this forum and
> let me ask each of you to take the time to send me the names and emails of at least
> two capable female colleagues whom we can bring into our considerations and
> achieve the kind of balance which has been needed behind the wise decision making
> in our field for far too long.
>
> Incidentally, if we can find ways to tempt in people with backgrounds that extend
> beyond the usual limits of the traditionally dominant fields, and in particular in such
> areas as cultural anthropology, behavioral psychology, community relations, and
> public health, I think we would be able to make real progress. (Of course we have to
> make it interesting for them, but it’s my theory that once we open these doors they
> will figure out how to do this for themselves. And change us all in the process.
>
> (I wonder how many of you are going to accept this challenge. ;-)
>
> Eric Britton
>
> The Commons: Increasing the uncomfort zone for hesitant administrators and politicians;
> pioneering new concepts for business, entrepreneurs, activists, community groups, and local
> government; and through our joint efforts, energy and personal choices, placing them and ourselves
> firmly on the path to a more sustainable and more just society.
>
>
>
>
***************************************************
I-ce = Interface for Cycling Expertise
New adress: Trans 3
3512 JJ Utrecht
The Netherlands
tel: +31 30 230 4521
fax: +31 30 231 2384
email: i-ce@cycling.nl
www.cycling.nl
***************************************************
Carlos F. Pardo V.
Pardinus Research
pardinus@yahoo.com
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
-------------- next part --------------
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From ecoplan.adsl at wanadoo.fr Thu Aug 12 01:17:43 2004
From: ecoplan.adsl at wanadoo.fr (ecoplan.adsl@wanadoo.fr)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 18:17:43 +0200
Subject: [sustran] We have a major problem here,
and you can help to set it right.
In-Reply-To: <20040811061503.76622.qmail@web80808.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <007501c47fbe$bc4a0d60$6501a8c0@home>
Dear Friends,
What can I say but splendid! We are clearly on the right track here.
And while thus far I have been receiving responses and nominations by
private mail (which normally we do prefer) I would say in this case
since the issues are so very important ? this after all is very much
what one might reasonably call a ?shaping initiative? ? I am going to
ask you to report back to the group with your nominations, at least in
cases where you have something by way of a wake-up call to draw to all
our attention. Here are a handful of the comments that we have received
in the first 24 hours on this that fall into this category:
* ?I came from a developing country and my background is sociology
and I am still in the process of learning the technical field of
transportation. I am right now, a transport planning PhD student. And
yes, all my professors are male. I also have been in some transport
conferences and unfortunately, the majority of those who attended are
also male. I hope you can encourage more women to join and participate.
?
* ?I just saw your call and I would like to join in and
participate in discussions and development of a less male and
increasingly sustainable transport paradigm. I am researcher in Peace
and Development Research and mostly focusing on issues of mobility and
cities. ?
* ?I would also add that style and tone of discussions may also
have something to do with it. Guys tend to seek victory in their
participation, whether through "robust argument", inflicting crushing
defeat on the opposition, or carefully structured arguments designed to
show futility of alternative viewpoints. Not everyone considers this to
be 'discussion', and some will avoid participation in what they perceive
to be a gladiatorial pit.?
* ?In Bogot? we have done research on why the people who are part
of a transport organization are mainly men, and found really nice
things, especially when we saw the specific cases in which women were
managers or drivers of bus companies. Thus, the same reflection applied
to this group might prove more interesting. Why is it that women don't
participate in these things? Does someone have any research on women's
relationship with the topic of transport? Is it the same gender-biased
question as is "Why don't men like cutting flowers and smelling them?"
I'm willing to do some research on the first topic (being a
psychologist), want to join me??
* ?Well, I'm female (and, incidentally, a wheelchair user so that
makes me even more strange in the transport world). I don't post much
at the moment, since I'm up to my neck in work (I'm a consultant - what
does that say about the transport world not employing females or
disabled people) and research for my doctorate on valuation frameworks
for inclusive transport, for which I hope to pick some of your brains in
due course..... But I do read your words of wisdom avidly and I shall
chip in when I'm moved to say something worthwhile (actually, research
indicates that women take up less air time than men in meetings - I
don't know if that applies to email discussion groups). And I'll find a
woman colleague or two to join us, hopefully.
* ?I find that despite the fact that the environment community is
overwhelmingly female, the transport community is overwhelmingly male.
Thus, it seems that for sustainable transport to happen, there must be a
marriage of the two! ?
* ?Here are some candidates I would recommend. But let me warn
you, they are all tough cookies and may offer more than ?soft? options
that we may to expect from women, but I?m sure they will add strength to
the forum ? if they choose to actively participate in the discussions.?
?Tough cookies?. Not bad, eh? And no doubt we all need more of this
kind of leadership and support.
So, I hope that this will encourage those of you who have not yet picked
up your pens and made your nominations and suggestions to do exactly
this. We will all be better for it.
Eric Britton
The Commons: Increasing the uncomfort zone for hesitant administrators
and politicians; pioneering new concepts for business, entrepreneurs,
activists, community groups, and local government; and through our joint
efforts, energy and personal choices, placing them and ourselves firmly
on the path to a more sustainable and more just society.
-------------- next part --------------
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From alan at ourpeagreenboat.co.uk Thu Aug 12 17:05:11 2004
From: alan at ourpeagreenboat.co.uk (Alan P Howes)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:05:11 +0100
Subject: [sustran] Re: We have a major problem here,
and you can help to set it right.
In-Reply-To: <00de01c47f9d$f0b17050$0101a8c0@fujitsu83p69tb>
References: <001301c47ef4$26897880$6501a8c0@home>
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Nicely put, Brendan!
I'm afraid that in my case though, it's just lack of time that is
keeping me quiet.
Alan
On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 13:22:59 +0100, "Brendan Finn"
wrote to "Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport"
:
>Dear Kisan and Eric,
>
>I think Kisan's points are interesting.
>
>I would also add that style and tone of discussions may also have something to do with it. Guys tend to seek victory in their participation, whether through "robust argument", inflicting crushing defeat on the opposition, or carefully structured arguments designed to show futility of alternative viewpoints. Not everyone considers this to be 'discussion', and some will avoid participation in what they perceive to be a gladiatorial pit.
>
>Just a thought :o)
>
>
>Brendan Finn.
>_______________________________________________________________________
>Contact details are : e-mail : etts@indigo.ie tel : +353.87.2530286
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kisan Mehta
> To: Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport
> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:08 PM
> Subject: [sustran] Re: We have a major problem here,and you can help to set it right.
>
>
> Dear Eric and colleagues,
>
> Reason for less participation by females may be our networking becoming too technical and too location specific. Transportation has many more faces than technical and economic. Discussions in the internet hover around these aspects.
>
> In our discussions we forget that social and psychological aspects are more important. In the poor countries the feeling of being alienated by resorting to high sounding technological aspects makes the common man and there women ignoring the issues. They become victims of the tyranny of technology and economics.
>
> Inthe male dominated government that, we have developed and are voraciously guarding, all high posts are occupied by men denying access to women.
>
> In the poor countries, in choosing the modes of traffic for travel, it is the man's preference that gets higher priority. If stricken with no money, the money will be used by the man for his choice of mode of traffic while the woman is left to lower mode and somtimes to walking. If the family is taking the first car, it is normal to register in the man's name and he is given sole charge though the costs are debited to the family income.
>
> Participation, I am afraid, will most likely remain male dominated even if all of us introduce two female potential participants. Can we change the focus to more social aspect which in fact is the base for transportation. Best wishes.
>
> Kisan Mehta
> Rwel: 00 91 22 2414 9688
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: eric.britton@ecoplan.org
> To: WorldTransport@yahoogroups.com
> Cc: Sustran-discuss@jca.ax.apc.org
> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 9:37 PM
> Subject: [sustran] We have a major problem here,and you can help to set it right.
>
>
> Tuesday, August 10, 2004, Paris, France, Europe
>
>
>
> Dear Colleagues,
>
>
>
> We have a major problem here, and you can help to set it right.
>
>
>
> I have just inspected the listing of the hundreds of us who are sharing our information and thoughts on these matters of sustainable development and sustainable mobility more specifically, and I note a dangerous anomaly. We are more than 90% male in this forum
>
>
>
> Is this a trivial fact of 21st century life? Unavoidable? Neither. In fact, it has long been my belief that one of the main reasons why we have failed over all these years to create better and softer mobility systems in our cities is that we have de facto turned over the job to taskforces almost entirely of men, and not only that men who went to college to learn how to move volumes fast and 'efficiently' in rather undifferentiated ways. We have, I have to say, created an almost all male transportation paradigm.
>
>
>
> We need help and we're lucky -- it is right at hand. So let's start with this forum and let me ask each of you to take the time to send me the names and emails of at least two capable female colleagues whom we can bring into our considerations and achieve the kind of balance which has been needed behind the wise decision making in our field for far too long.
>
>
>
> Incidentally, if we can find ways to tempt in people with backgrounds that extend beyond the usual limits of the traditionally dominant fields, and in particular in such areas as cultural anthropology, behavioral psychology, community relations, and public health, I think we would be able to make real progress. (Of course we have to make it interesting for them, but it's my theory that once we open these doors they will figure out how to do this for themselves. And change us all in the process.
>
>
>
> (I wonder how many of you are going to accept this challenge. ;-)
>
>
>
> Eric Britton
>
>
>
> The Commons: Increasing the uncomfort zone for hesitant administrators and politicians; pioneering new concepts for business, entrepreneurs, activists, community groups, and local government; and through our joint efforts, energy and personal choices, placing them and ourselves firmly on the path to a more sustainable and more just society.
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Alan P Howes, Perthshire, Scotland
alan@ourpeagreenboat.co.uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/alanhowes/ [Needs Updating!]
From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Fri Aug 13 00:49:23 2004
From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric.britton@ecoplan.org)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 17:49:23 +0200
Subject: [sustran] Intermode : Innovations in Demand Responsive Transport
Message-ID: <010e01c48083$f2f7e560$6501a8c0@home>
Or. . . Thinking small in a big way!
Dear Sustainability Colleagues,
Because I firmly believe that what we need in cities is not more cars
(are you listening WBCSD?) but more car-like (in terms of service
levels) and more sustainable transportation, I find that anything which
probes the rich potential of this largely unmet technology and service
challenge, by whatever name, is worth careful attention.
In this case I have just checked out a just published report on the
potential of ?Intermode: Innovations in Demand Responsive Transport
Systems? in the UK carried out by a team lead (at least in part) by
Marcus Enoch of the Transport Studies Group at Loughborough University
for the Department for Transport and Greater Manchester Passenger
Transport Executive. To get to it the link is
http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_localtrans/documents/page/dft_
localtrans_030324.hcsp (make sure you get the whole mess into your
browser).
I must say that I always approach reports on this most important topic
with considerable reserve. I have been looking at these systems for many
years and have in the process seen a lot of mediocre (on a good day)
stuff purporting to help us better understand the area. (Sure!) This
report by contrast strikes me as good value, and since you may be time
pressed, I have purloined a few pages that summarize the top lines,
which I sincerely recommend to your attention.
This is not the last time this subject is going to come up.
Eric Britton
PS. In the meantime if you are looking for earlier publications treating
this topic, check out
http://www.bestwebbuys.com/Medical-Transportation-N_10024807-books.html.
A small gold mine.
Intermode : Innovations in Demand Responsive Transport
The Intermode Study
Increasingly, conventional bus services do not meet the needs of a large
section of the population. This is due to increasing incomes and car
ownership levels and the resulting dispersal of activity centres and
trip patterns. One possible solution is public transport systems that
can operate effectively with lower and more dispersed patterns of demand
than the bus, i.e. Demand Responsive Transport (DRT
1). DRT has featured in a
number of UK Government reports suggesting it could be used to tackle a
number of policy objectives, and recently the use of Rural and Urban Bus
Challenge funding has encouraged the take up of DRT. Existing research
on DRT has tended to focus on the means of delivery - i.e. what type of
vehicle is most appropriate, how might the technology work, and should a
service be fully or semi-flexible? However, there are a number of
additional regulatory, fiscal, institutional and cultural barriers at
government, local authority, operator and user levels that have not yet
been comprehensively investigated. These appear to be as important as
the technical issues involved.
In 2002, the Department for Transport (DfT) and the Greater Manchester
Passenger Transport Executive (GMPTE) commissioned the Open University
(in collaboration with the University of West of England and
Loughborough University) to determine the market potential for DRT
systems in the UK. The project set out to examine examples of 'good
practice' DRT systems already in operation and identify any regulatory
or institutional barriers hampering the development of DRT schemes.
In essence, the purpose of this study was to look at the potential for
DRT as an alternative public transport system in terms of market or
demand niches, and from the viewpoint of the public authority and the
commercial operator. It aims to determine how DRT might be developed to
serve journeys that are not currently well served by public transport
and explores why DRT has so far failed to make much impact, and how
government and other public authorities might rectify this.
Composite Cases
To analyse the material, the case studies were aggregated to create a
series of composite case studies, each of which was described firstly by
the nature of the DRT service it represents and the market it serves and
secondly by whether it is driven primarily by public policy or by
commercial objectives. There are four function-based composite case
types:
Interchange DRT providing feeder links to conventional public transport.
Typically this would be a DRT service providing an interchange at a rail
station or into a bus route.
Network DRT enhances public transport either by providing additional
services, or by replacing uneconomic services in a particular place or
at certain times. Typically, this substitution happens at times of the
day or week when demand for conventional public transport is low or
dispersed, so making it hard to offer an attractive service. However
there are also places where DRT may be more appropriate, such as town
and city cross-suburban trips. Funding from the Government's Rural Bus
Challenge has led to the development of a number of such services, many
in areas where conventional bus services had previously been withdrawn.
Destination-specific DRT is a specialist form of network DRT that serves
particular destinations such as airports or employment locations. A key
element of many of these schemes is the presence of a partnership
between a local authority and the 'destination' (e.g. a company, airport
operator or whatever).
Substitute DRT occurs where, instead of complementing conventional bus
services, a DRT system totally (or substantially) replaces them. This
represents a reinvention of public transport.
Interchange DRT Composite Case
Except where trunk and DRT services operate at a high frequency,
integrated timetabling with connecting services and ideally guaranteed
connections are advisable, and it is desirable to encourage flexibility
in service design to ensure connections are achieved in both directions,
i.e. DRT to trunk and trunk to DRT. Driver training is of crucial
importance. Vehicle interior should be to a high specification, and
ideally as close to a taxi environment as possible. This is particularly
important for 'choice' users such as commuters.
There is an issue regarding fares. Most systems operate fares that are
the same or comparable to local bus fares, and may even use normal bus
tickets. Some, however, have fares that are higher than bus fares, but
considerably lower than normal taxis. If modal shift from car is desired
fares need to be competitive with perceived motoring costs (including
parking costs at stations). Through fares and tickets onto
interconnecting service might be more attractive to users.
In the UK context, where a DRT service is introduced to connect with
fixed-route public transport, it could be appropriate to have fares
moderately above bus fare rates, but with concessions for key groups and
discounts for pre-booked pickups/drop-offs at fixed stops.
Financially, Interchange DRT tends to occupy a space that spans
subsidised and commercial operations. Overseas examples, like many local
bus services, require continued subsidy, although it is notable that for
the rural services in particular this is less than for conventional
buses. In the UK, the subsidy rate of ?1.80-4.00 per trip tends to be
above the typical maximum of around ?2 for tendered services. However,
initial funding can lead to a level of subsidy no higher than
conventional buses. And this is with a higher quality of service,
coverage and patronage.
Network DRT Composite Case
Many of the key design elements of the interchange DRT services apply to
network services as well.
For network services, unlike with interchange DRT projects, integrated
fares, although desirable, are not an essential requirement. Some
schemes do have fares that are integrated with the parallel public
transport system and use the same zones, but passengers still pay a
premium to use such schemes. If modal shift from car is desired, fares
need to be competitive with perceived motoring costs (including parking
costs at stations and/or destinations).
DRT schemes are typically more expensive to provide per passenger trip
than conventional bus (although probably cheaper to operate in the
particular circumstances than a conventional bus would be). Therefore
public policy driven network schemes that provide additional service
levels may be vulnerable in the longer term to funding being cut unless
it can be convincingly demonstrated that they are delivering their
objectives. Conversely, being more flexible, DRT can very usefully
perform as a pilot bus service in an area until demand levels on
particular routes or at particular stops can be fully ascertained and
resources allocated to a fixed route service.
Destination-specific DRT Composite Case
The destination-specific composite case is a subset of the network DRT
case, and hence many of the conditions that applied for the network
composite mode will apply here too. Destination-specific services tend
to be targeted at particular markets. Often therefore, either the users
are perhaps valued in some way (e.g. where companies are happy to
subsidise the commuter trips of their employees), or else the users see
such a journey as a one-off and are therefore happy to pay a premium
(e.g. airport shuttle passengers). Timetables can be geared specifically
to meet the particular needs of the site(s) served, rather than designed
to co-ordinate with the rest of the public transport network.
Destination-specific schemes do not tend to involve trip chains, and
therefore the fares systems, tickets and/or timetables can be
self-contained
Destination-specific DRT services have a good potential for commercial
partnership funding between an operator, local authority and/or a site
owner, tenant or developer. This is because in addition to
'self-interest' reasons for establishing a DRT service (congestion, lack
of sufficient parking places, improving access for staff and visitors),
there may also be regulatory reasons. For example, where a developer
wishes to build a factory or supermarket, planning permission for this
will be required from the local council. Often, this process results in
a planning agreement whereby the developer agrees to run a scheduled bus
to the site for a couple of years. This usually runs virtually empty and
is then discontinued. A more positive use of such a planning gain
agreement might be to enter into a partnership with the council and bus
operator to pump-prime a DRT service.
Substitute DRT Composite Case
Social inclusion concerns have played a major part in many DRT schemes.
However, there is a danger of too narrow a market base, and it is
notable that a number of these DRT schemes have sought to consolidate a
number of specialist DRT services, such as those for people with
disabilities, into a general DRT service. Indeed, several of these
schemes have merged three or four previous services in order to capture
resource efficiency gains, cut costs and improve services to customers.
Most of the above lessons also apply to the more radical substitute DRT
services. However, from this analysis one issue to emerge is whether it
is better to go for the incremental development of DRT, or if the
benefits are only achieved as the result of a radical restructuring.
Experience suggests that a total evaluation of an areas bus service is
needed, rather than a piecemeal approach.
Markets for DRT
Most DRT schemes have been driven by social policy objectives and hence
focused upon captive users, who by definition have restricted transport
choices, and in particular have low levels of access to cars. By way of
contrast a number of DRT schemes have targeted choice users, many of
whom could have made the trip by car. This latter group is of particular
interest where the role of DRT in transport and environmental policy is
concerned.
One finding to emerge from the analysis of the composite cases is that
there are key differences in the user requirements of the 'choice' and
'captive' markets. One factor that is rated highly across all trip types
for both captive and choice users is certainty of arrival time. The
availability of door-to-door travel, a key attribute of DRT, achieves an
interesting mix. For shopping and health trips it is rated strongly for
both captive and choice groups, though the rating is higher for choice
than captive. Door-to-door travel is also rated higher by choice groups
for commuting and leisure trips. It should be noted that door-to-door is
a more valuable attribute for women than men, due mainly to the
perception of enhanced personal security. These observations are
indicative of a more general pattern of difference between choice and
captive users. Times of operation appear to be of importance for
commuter and leisure trips, with choice commuters scoring higher. This
probably relates to leisure trips being in the evenings, possibly after
conventional bus services stop. On the important issue of price there is
a major contrast between choice and captive users. Price is a very
important issue for captive users, but less so for choice users. By way
of contrast, comfort and image is far more important for choice than
captive users (although comfort understandably scores more highly for
health trips and also for leisure trips).
Recommendation: This analysis can be used and developed to target the
design of a DRT service to the markets it is planned to serve. For
example, a DRT scheme geared mainly to shopping, health and leisure
trips by captive users should combine a different set of attributes than
one aimed at car commuters. A key distinction is that what captive users
most want is a bus or minicab, whereas the last thing choice users want
is a bus. Captive users value bus-like attributes. Choice users value
taxi/hirecar type attributes.
Implementation issues
DRT systems tend to require a more complex network than conventional bus
or taxi services. At the very least this involves operators, call
centres and local authorities. It is also clear that good relations need
to be established with the local community, rival transport operators
(particularly minicab and taxi firms who may see a subsidised service as
a threat), and local trip generators such as employers, retail outlets,
etc., that could encourage their staff and visitors to use the service,
or even potentially sponsor or contribute towards the costs of providing
the service. There can be problems involving taxi and private hire
operators, as moving into DRT and being expected to work in partnership
with the local authority and others is not their normal mode of
operation. Finally, clear communication channels with the various
licensing, regulatory and financing authorities can smooth the path of
implementation enormously.
Politically, there is widespread political enthusiasm for DRT, but it is
the support of the operators, not the politicians, that is the biggest
problem. One approach to dealing with this operator reticence has been
for local authorities to bear all the revenue risk by issuing gross cost
contracts. In practice, this has meant that the local authority
buys/leases and brands the vehicles, plans the routes and then invites
operators to bid to run the services for a fixed fee which they will
receive no matter how many people use the service. Currently DRT is
still limited to niche markets and limited areas of the country, and
considered experimental. It is almost as though DRT has to reach a
'critical mass' and be more widely accepted before the conservative bus
industry accepts it as a viable proposition. Thus far, DRT is seen as
providing a less certain revenue stream than conventional public
transport.
Directly related to this and a serious operational problem that has
afflicted DRT projects in the UK and elsewhere, is active opposition
from rival transport operators. However, the research conducted for this
study suggests that the fear of competition from DRT expressed by taxi
operators is ungrounded, and DRT is in reality an opportunity. There is
considerable, guaranteed profit to be gained. In essence, more needs to
be made of the positive incentives for communities to encourage small,
local taxi operators to participate in DRT.
Issues facing Government
Institutional, legal and regulatory
While it could be argued that the plethora of existing and potential
regulatory regimes allows operators flexibility in the type of schemes
they devise, in practice the complexity facing operators has hindered
rather than facilitated the development of not only DRT, but other
innovative transport options such as car club, lift share or vanpooling
schemes.
Currently DRT is neither 'fish nor fowl' - it is neither taxi, nor
minicab nor bus, meaning that it is extremely complicated to set up a
DRT scheme and that DRT is not seen as a mainstream public transport
solution by all players. Further, registration, licensing and financing
principles and procedures continue to be conducted on an ad hoc basis -
an undesirable situation for all concerned because DRT scheme promoters
are thus forced to negotiate from scratch every time they register a
service or try and claim financial support. To be successful DRT needs a
strong identity.
Recommendation: The current institutional arrangements facing DRT scheme
promoters are too complicated. Ideally, over the longer term the
operating, licensing and financing regimes of all the road-based
passenger public transport sectors need to be re-visited and completely
replaced with a new integrated system governed by common principles,
based on safety and the needs of the passenger, and controlled by a
single governing authority. Ad hoc and piecemeal alterations to the
various regimes would seem to be counterproductive. On the other hand,
it is recognised that such a wholesale change in the current political
climate is very unlikely to happen for a variety of reasons and that
some specific changes would benefit DRT operations (see Chapter 6). As a
minimum, in the short term, the DfT needs to further clarify the
institutional framework for ALL potential types of DRT scheme. Also, as
DRT has no natural constituency to draw from for political support,
unlike the established bus and taxi lobbies, one possible remedy could
be to set up a new DRT forum.
For the cases studied, there was also some comment that more information
about how to set up, plan, run and market DRT would be helpful to local
authorities and bus operators.
Recommendation: Government should improve the dissemination of public
transport planning, operating and marketing techniques, possibly through
the publication of a good practice guide.
With DRT there are many different variations in the degree of route and
timetable flexibility. This is combined with uncertainty in the
legislation, which has led to a non-uniformity of how the legislation is
applied among the six Traffic Commissioners found in eight regions.
The second major concern to emerge from the research was to do with the
related issue of timing points. Timing points are seen as being
problematic because buses are required to run to them even if there are
no bookings, and because they limit the flexibility of how the service
is operated.
Monitoring whether services run (or are available to run) or not
currently determines the limit of how flexible a service can be. There
is therefore a need to look at alternative approaches to the current
'catch all' timing-point method, which, while appropriate to fixed
timetable services, is clearly useless for on-demand style service
patterns. Instead, the 'mystery shopper' approach might be an
alternative way for Traffic Commissioners to monitor actual service
compliance, for example with a sample of services being booked by
telephone to see if they are then operated as per the published
standard.
Recommendation: New monitoring methods need to be devised by the Traffic
Commissioners (or subsequent registration body). This would allow a more
comprehensive range of flexible public transport service options to be
registered.
In theory, the deregulation of bus services due to the 1985 Transport
Act should have encouraged bus and taxi operators to bid for operations,
and stimulate competition. In practice, this has rarely happened. In
summary, taxis are being under utilised.
Recommendation: As a minimum, stronger guidance and/or regulation needs
to be issued to taxi and Private Hire Vehicle (PHV) licensing
authorities extolling the virtues of shared taxi-type operations. More
beneficial would be to standardise private hire and taxi licensing rules
while shifting these licensing responsibilities from the district
authority tier to that of the highway authority (where the authority is
not a unitary one) or to a PTE (where one is present).
A very specific regulatory barrier relating to the potential for DRT
services to substitute for specialist services such as education, social
service and disabled transport, was due to Section 60(5) of the 1985
Transport Act, preventing PTEs from 'owning and loaning' vehicles, thus
making it far more complex for them to act as a vehicle broker. This
brokerage system would theoretically enable a council or a PTE to
provide a vehicle pool, from which private and community transport
operators, council departments and Primary Health Care Trusts could
lease vehicles as required for a few hours a day - perhaps significantly
reducing costs.
Recommendation: The regulations in the 1985 Transport Act preventing
PTEs from 'owning and loaning' vehicles should be rescinded
2.
Financial issues
An important consequence of the institutional arrangement is whether a
service is eligible for particular types of funding or not. Public
subsidy accounts for 30% of bus operator revenue for services outside
London, which comes from Bus Service Operators Grant (BSOG), payments
for tendered services, and concessionary fares compensation. For DRT, as
with licensing, the situation is rather less clear.
Essentially, the current position is that private hire vehicles are
never eligible for BSOG, while taxis are only eligible when operating as
a registered Taxibuses under Section 12 of the 1985 Transport Act.
Regulations were introduced from May 2002 to extend the BSOG scheme to a
wider range of Community Transport services, i.e. those which are
provided by a non-profit making body under a Section 19 permit. Local
bus services are only eligible for BSOG providing that services are
available to the general public and that members of the public can make
single journeys between any two stopping places.
Recommendation: BSOG should be extended to cover all mileage on services
registered with the Traffic Commissioners as 'shared use' public
transport services, whether they be operated by bus or taxi. Ideally, it
should also be possible for DRT schemes registered with and monitored by
local authorities to be eligible for BSOG too
3.
The UK Government recently decided to extend the Rural Bus Subsidy Grant
(RBSG) for a further two years (to 2005/6) and to allow it to be used
for funding a wider range of services, possibly including DRT, although
final decisions are still to be taken on exactly what services will be
covered. As of November 2003, the DfT is consulting interested
organisations on the details of the changes to the rules of the grant.
Recommendation: Rural Bus Subsidy Grant should be extended to cover all
mileage on services registered with the Traffic Commissioners as 'shared
use' public transport services, whether they be operated by bus or taxi,
should they comply with the 'rurality' criteria. Similarly, rural local
authority registered DRT schemes would also ideally be eligible.
One major area of DRT funding in the UK has been Rural, and more
recently, Urban Bus Challenge funding. RBC and UBC has had a very
positive effect on the DRT industry. However, there are problems in that
it is overly complex, encourages innovative schemes rather than
potentially cost effective schemes, and requires time to be spent on
bidding for resources with no guarantee that any money will be
forthcoming.
Recommendation: The Challenge funding mechanisms have served their
purpose, and there is now a need for a more predictable source of money
to support DRT schemes as they strive to become a financially viable
form of public transport. This could be offered through BSOG or RBSG, or
perhaps through a 'pump priming' fund (such as the Kickstart
initiative), whereby the subsidy gap between DRT and conventional bus
routes might be covered for the first two or three years. In any event,
a decision as to the long-term future of the Challenge funding scheme
(and about any replacement money) would be appreciated as soon as
possible.
While vehicles of ten seats (including the driver) or more qualify to be
zero rated for VAT on costs on fares, private hire vehicles and taxis do
not. This inconsistency with the VAT treatment of costs and fares does
have an impact on the take up of shared taxi schemes. Once again though,
the issues of monitoring and enforcement are crucial.
Recommendation: Ideally, subject to an appropriate monitoring and
enforcement regime being established, taxis and PHVs should be eligible
for zero-rated VAT on costs and fares whenever they are operated as a
public transport system, as opposed to exclusive-use.
Political
In some ways, DRT already has a strong political backing as it is
perceived to help address the 'social inclusion' policy area and it
could be developed to meet 'resource efficiency', 'integration',
'environment' and 'congestion' objectives too. However, there are a
number of areas where DRT could be embedded further into such policy
processes. One way is through accessibility planning. Previously, there
has been a tendency to consider access to public transport services in
terms of distance from a bus stop and frequency of service. A subtle
alteration to these accessibility planning indicators, e.g. by
suggesting that people be offered at least an hourly opportunity to
travel would mean that DRT would become the most efficient way of
meeting the standard in many places.
Recommendation: Government needs to set a framework from which to set
legislation concerning how often the public should have access to
transport. An hourly opportunity to travel would be a good standard. A
national accessibility standard for rural areas would promote DRT, as it
would be the only efficient way of meeting the standard in many places.
Land use is a significant shaping factor in the effectiveness and
efficiency of public transport systems, and in recent years low-density
out-of-town developments have been allowed to proliferate. Such
developments are car-friendly and bus-unfriendly, and so DRT may be more
appropriate than a bus in these areas. However, this should not mean
that developers should be allowed to carry on in a similar vein, using
DRT as a as a solution for poor planning, and planning rules need to be
altered accordingly.
Recommendation: Planning guidance should recognise that low-density
out-of-town developments are not conducive to public transport operation
and should be discouraged. However, where such developments already
exist, DRT may be a possible solution to poor public transport
accessibility.
A further issue of importance is in the calculation of costs and
benefits relating to DRT (and to public transport as a whole). For
instance, enabling older people to access social networks through public
transport delivers significant benefits, but these are not 'reclaimed'
by the transport sector.
Recommendation: Government ought to sponsor more research into the wider
environmental, social and economic benefits of transport in order to
help justify higher public transport subsidies.
Very much related to this is the question of subsidies to other forms of
transport. It is important to note that the costs of using public
transport relative to the marginal cost to the user of using a car due
have risen significantly over recent years, and any future widening of
the cost gap between public transport and the car will undermine the
viability of DRT.
Recommendation: Government needs to consider policies aimed at reversing
the trends whereby car use is becoming cheaper and public transport use
more expensive.
On a more prosaic level, while DRT is typically more expensive than
conventional fixed-route bus services per passenger trip, it is also
usually far less expensive than specialist education, social service and
health transport services. Allowing DRT to take on these trips may well
provide a more cost effective option for a local authority currently
subsidising these services separately (providing the fixed costs of
providing DRT services are also reduced). However, significant
institutional and cultural barriers need to be overcome before any
meaningful integration can take place. In particular, it is vital that
financing streams are properly established.
Recommendation: Government ought to examine ways and means of
encouraging the establishing of vehicle brokerage operations.
Other barriers
The proliferation of call centres is also seen as a problem. While
scheme-by-scheme centres may be desirable from an operational viewpoint,
(local knowledge of an area is valued by customers), the set-up and
operational costs involved are typically high, and many current UK DRT
schemes are simply far too small to justify the level of investment
required. Regional level call centres therefore probably offer the best
balance between cost and operational requirements.
Recommendation: Government needs to look at ways of developing a more
rational network of DRT call centres.
Other technological barriers are that there is still no mobile telephone
coverage in some very remote areas of the country, such as parts of
Cornwall and the north west of Scotland (arguably where DRT might be
most effective), making high tech DRT schemes very difficult to
introduce.
2 As of November 2003,
it is understood that the DfT has already pledged to allow PTEs to lease
vehicles and is in the process of drawing up a Regulatory Reform Order
to effect this.
3 Since this
recommendation was made, the regulations of February 2004 do enable a
whole new raft of DRT services to be registered with the Traffic
Commissioners which are thus also eligible for BSOG. Nevertheless, local
authority-registered schemes remain ineligible (see
http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_localtrans/documents/page/dft_
localtrans_027309.hcsp for further details.
Agaion tue full repsort is at
http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_localtrans/documents/page/dft_
localtrans_030324-01.hcsp#P25_536
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From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Fri Aug 13 18:51:53 2004
From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric.britton@ecoplan.org)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 11:51:53 +0200
Subject: [sustran] "Best Practices" listing for information and comment
Message-ID: <00b001c4811b$2b391d80$6501a8c0@home>
Dear Colleagues,
In support of an ambitious new program about to get underway in Toronto
is conjuction with their 2004 New Mobility Week, we have hastily cobbled
together a reference list of "Best Practices" web sites covering
initiatives in the area of sustainable mobility and city transportation
improvements more generally.
I attach a copy of this for your information. And should you have
additions or corrections, this would be most appreciated.
When the listing has been completed it will be posted here for all to
consult and use. As always.
Kind thanks
Eric Britton
List of "Best Practices" Web Sites and Programs
(Draft for information and comment)
ACCESS - Eurocities for a New Mobility Culture
a local authority network aiming to promote a new mobility culture
throughout Europe, in order to combat congestion, improve air quality
http://www.access-eurocities.org/ fekbritton
Best Practices & Local Leadership Programme
United Nations Human Settlements Programme(UN-HABITAT)
http://www.bestpractices.org/
Best practice for sustainable urban infrastructures
Europe, COST program
http://www.cf.ac.uk/archi/research/cost8/
Bremen Initiative Best Practice Resources
http://www.bremen-initiative.de/links/best_practices.html
Case studies on sustainable development
2004 World Health Organization
http://www.who.dk/eprise/main/WHO/Progs/HCP/Documentation/20010917_2
ELTIS case study database
European Local Transport Information Service
http://www.eltis.org/en/indexcse.htm
EPOMM - European Platform for Mobility Management
examples of successful Mobility Management, collected from all over
Europe and beyond
http://www.epommweb.org/epomm_examples_all.phtml?sprache=en
EURONET/ICLEI Consortium
Old but still a reference to consider- 1996
http://www3.iclei.org/egpis/citylist.htm
European Database on Good Practice in Urban Management and
Sustainability
designed to help local authorities to work towards sustainability by
disseminating good practice and policy, facilitating the exchange of
experience, and raising awareness about how cities and towns can be
managed in more sustainable ways
http://europa.eu.int/comm/urban/
Gateway to International Best Practices and Innovations
EPA National Center for Environmental Innovation
http://www.epa.gov/innovation/international/transportation.htm
ICLEI Project Summaries - Transport
Also see Planning, Tools and Land Use sections
http://www.iclei.org/LEICOMM/LEICASES.HTM#transport
Model Cities: Urban Best Practices (Volume 1)
Urban Redevelopment Authority, Singapore and The Institute of Policy
Studies, 263 pages, ISBN 981-04-2446-9
http://www.ips.org.sg/publications/pub_mc99i.htm
Model Cities: Urban Best Practices (Volume 2)
Urban Redevelopment Authority, Singapore and The Institute of Policy
Studies, 258 pages, ISBN 981-04-2447-7
http://www.ips.org.sg/publications/pub_mc99ii.htm
SMILE - Sustainable Urban Transport Policies and Initiatives
"170 successful and replicable European practices for sustainable
mobility"
http://www.smile-europe.org/frame22.html
SURBAN - database on sustainable urban development in Europe
Europe, fairllarge
http://www.eaue.de/winuwd/list.htm
Stockholm Partnerships for Sustainable Cities
http://www.partnerships.stockholm.se/
UITP Mobility in Cities Database
http://www.uitp.com/Project/index29.htm
USCM Best Practices Database
U.S. Conference of Mayors
http://www.usmayors.org/uscm/best_practices/
WHO Healthy City Network
A source of valuable expertise, legitimacy and continuous learning
http://www.who.dk/healthy-cities/CitiesAndNetworks/20010919_1
World Car/Free Days News Alerts
In six languages. Also discussion groups
http://www.ecoplan.org/carfreeday/general/wcfd-news.htm
World Car/free Days Consortium
Good international coverage
http://worldcarfreeday.com
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From ecoplan.adsl at wanadoo.fr Fri Aug 13 18:52:14 2004
From: ecoplan.adsl at wanadoo.fr (ecoplan.adsl@wanadoo.fr)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 11:52:14 +0200
Subject: [sustran] "Best Practices" listing for information and comment
Message-ID: <00b701c4811b$37665550$6501a8c0@home>
Dear Colleagues,
In support of an ambitious new program about to get underway in Toronto
is conjuction with their 2004 New Mobility Week, we have hastily cobbled
together a reference list of "Best Practices" web sites covering
initiatives in the area of sustainable mobility and city transportation
improvements more generally.
I attach a copy of this for your information. And should you have
additions or corrections, this would be most appreciated.
When the listing has been completed it will be posted here for all to
consult and use. As always.
Kind thanks
Eric Britton
List of "Best Practices" Web Sites and Programs
(Draft for information and comment)
ACCESS - Eurocities for a New Mobility Culture
a local authority network aiming to promote a new mobility culture
throughout Europe, in order to combat congestion, improve air quality
http://www.access-eurocities.org/ fekbritton
Best Practices & Local Leadership Programme
United Nations Human Settlements Programme(UN-HABITAT)
http://www.bestpractices.org/
Best practice for sustainable urban infrastructures
Europe, COST program
http://www.cf.ac.uk/archi/research/cost8/
Bremen Initiative Best Practice Resources
http://www.bremen-initiative.de/links/best_practices.html
Case studies on sustainable development
2004 World Health Organization
http://www.who.dk/eprise/main/WHO/Progs/HCP/Documentation/20010917_2
ELTIS case study database
European Local Transport Information Service
http://www.eltis.org/en/indexcse.htm
EPOMM - European Platform for Mobility Management
examples of successful Mobility Management, collected from all over
Europe and beyond
http://www.epommweb.org/epomm_examples_all.phtml?sprache=en
EURONET/ICLEI Consortium
Old but still a reference to consider- 1996
http://www3.iclei.org/egpis/citylist.htm
European Database on Good Practice in Urban Management and
Sustainability
designed to help local authorities to work towards sustainability by
disseminating good practice and policy, facilitating the exchange of
experience, and raising awareness about how cities and towns can be
managed in more sustainable ways
http://europa.eu.int/comm/urban/
Gateway to International Best Practices and Innovations
EPA National Center for Environmental Innovation
http://www.epa.gov/innovation/international/transportation.htm
ICLEI Project Summaries - Transport
Also see Planning, Tools and Land Use sections
http://www.iclei.org/LEICOMM/LEICASES.HTM#transport
Model Cities: Urban Best Practices (Volume 1)
Urban Redevelopment Authority, Singapore and The Institute of Policy
Studies, 263 pages, ISBN 981-04-2446-9
http://www.ips.org.sg/publications/pub_mc99i.htm
Model Cities: Urban Best Practices (Volume 2)
Urban Redevelopment Authority, Singapore and The Institute of Policy
Studies, 258 pages, ISBN 981-04-2447-7
http://www.ips.org.sg/publications/pub_mc99ii.htm
SMILE - Sustainable Urban Transport Policies and Initiatives
"170 successful and replicable European practices for sustainable
mobility"
http://www.smile-europe.org/frame22.html
SURBAN - database on sustainable urban development in Europe
Europe, fairllarge
http://www.eaue.de/winuwd/list.htm
Stockholm Partnerships for Sustainable Cities
http://www.partnerships.stockholm.se/
UITP Mobility in Cities Database
http://www.uitp.com/Project/index29.htm
USCM Best Practices Database
U.S. Conference of Mayors
http://www.usmayors.org/uscm/best_practices/
WHO Healthy City Network
A source of valuable expertise, legitimacy and continuous learning
http://www.who.dk/healthy-cities/CitiesAndNetworks/20010919_1
World Car/Free Days News Alerts
In six languages. Also discussion groups
http://www.ecoplan.org/carfreeday/general/wcfd-news.htm
World Car/free Days Consortium
Good international coverage
http://worldcarfreeday.com
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From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Fri Aug 13 18:44:53 2004
From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric.britton@ecoplan.org)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 11:44:53 +0200
Subject: [sustran] "Best Practices" listing for information and comment
Message-ID: <00a501c4811a$314e14b0$6501a8c0@home>
Dear Colleagues,
In support of an ambitious new program about to get underway in Toronto
is conjuction with their 2004 New Mobility Week, we have hastily cobbled
together a reference list of "Best Practices" web sites covering
initiatives in the area of sustainable mobility and city transportation
improvements more generally.
I attach a copy of this for your information. And should you have
additions or corrections, this would be most appreciated.
When the listing has been completed it will be posted here for all to
consult and use. As always.
Kind thanks
Eric Britton
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From p3_22982 at ifrtd.org Sun Aug 15 13:33:39 2004
From: p3_22982 at ifrtd.org (Priyanthi Fernando)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 21:33:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sustran] Re: We have a major problem here,
and you can help to set it right.
Message-ID: <20040815043340.10B273960@sitemail.everyone.net>
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From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Mon Aug 16 17:44:09 2004
From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric.britton@ecoplan.org)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 10:44:09 +0200
Subject: [sustran] Carsharing in Japan - but for the truly curious only
Message-ID: <002a01c4836d$38a8d880$6501a8c0@home>
Monday, August 16, 2004, Paris, France, Europe
Okay, carsharing in Japan. How much do you now about it? Even a bit
curious? How is your Japanese? Not so good. Hmm. Well, try this.
1. Go to ecomo.or.jp (The EcoMo
Foundation in Tokyo, Shimpei Ichimaru, Manager)
2. Notice that it is in Japanese and start to give up
3. Instead have the bright idea of calling up
http://babelfish.altavista.com/ and (a) pop
ecomo.or.jp into the Translate Page
slot, and (b) tell Systran that you want to go from Japanese to English
4. Note the fine abundance of programs that EcoMo is involved with
(BTW, Systran translates only text not images of course).
5. Click into "
Car sharing
case summary of entire country was published. (6/30) " and work your way
down the image menu in the center - the second of which tells us about
nine ongoing projects.
6. You can then click through to find links in some of these cases,
as well as through the rest of the menu.
Wow. You now know a whole lot more about carsharing in Japan than you
did before. And it cost you nothing.
Is there a lesson in this?
;-)
Eric Britton
The New Mobility Agenda at http://newmobility.org
The New Mobility Forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WorldTransport/
The Commons: Open Society Sustainability Initiative
Le Frene, 8/10 rue Joseph Bara, 75006 Paris, France
Tel: +331 4326 1323 Mobile: +336 8096 7879
24 hour Fax/Voicemail hotline: +33 (1) 53 01 28 96
IP Videoconference: 81.65.50.63
Email: postmaster@ecoplan.org
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From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Mon Aug 16 18:30:56 2004
From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric.britton@ecoplan.org)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:30:56 +0200
Subject: [sustran] Carsharing in Japan - Oops. Correction on links
Message-ID: <006301c48373$bd627300$6501a8c0@home>
Corrected routine:
1. Go to http://www.ecomo.or.jp (The EcoMo Foundation in Tokyo, Shimpei
Ichimaru, Manager)
2. Notice that it is in Japanese and start to give up
3. Instead have the bright idea of calling up
http://babelfish.altavista.com/ and (a) type http://www.ecomo.or.jp into
the Translate Page slot, and (b) tell Systran that you want to go from
Japanese to English
4. Note the fine abundance of programs that EcoMo is involved with (BTW,
Systran translates only text not images of course).
5. Click into "Car sharing case summary of entire country was published.
(6/30)" and work your way down the image menu in the center - the second
of which tells us about nine ongoing projects.
6. You can then click through to find links in some of these cases,
as well as through the rest of the menu.
PS. As Peter Markusson of Ekokompaniet in Sweden who drew the link
errors to my attention has so kindly pointed out, Babelfish works only
with IE. Sorry about that.
From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Mon Aug 16 18:40:38 2004
From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric.britton@ecoplan.org)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:40:38 +0200
Subject: [sustran] FW: Please comment at your first convenience
Message-ID: <006401c48375$17c49cf0$6501a8c0@home>
Dear Colleagues,
I certainly don't think it is news to anyone on this forum, but at the
bottom of just about all our discussions is an underlying, fundamental
dilemma: we need an entirely new paradigm for designing and implementing
transport in cities. In this context I would like try an idea on you
and ask you for your feedback and ideas, so that we can correct eventual
weaknesses and omissions, and in turn we can make a strong authoritative
statement about this in two a-brewing city pilot projects to test these
ideas
Let me see if I can start with a quick and crude but I hope both fair
and essential correct characterization of the 'old paradigm', and then
move on to how we need to work with this acquired expertise in the new
one.
A. Traditional transport policy and planning is, to characterize
it very broadly:
1. Closed system
2. Centralized
3. Authoritarian
4. Expert based
5. Engineering
6. Costly
7. Well ordered
8. Bounded
9. Reductive
10. Statistics based (historical)
11. Binary (private/public transport)
12. Increasingly technical and tool oriented
In making this characterization I am not trying to condemn or belittle
our transport and traffic planner colleagues -- rather I am trying to
understand what is going on, with both eyes focused on the fact that if
we look at actual results in city after city in both the advanced
economies and even more so in the developing world, we cannot honestly
say that this approach is in itself proving adequate for our collective
decision making and actions.
This is however an excellent approach for managing an ordered system.
B. But the reality of transport in cities is not quite the mirror
image of this approach. It is, rather:
1. Open system
2. Totally decentralized
3. Personal: Based on a plethora of personal choices
4. Inherently unstable: Made by individual citizens, each for their
own good reasons and subject to change at any time
5. Myriad: Huge numbers of decisions and actions are involved
6. Decisions hedged in by large numbers of non transport related
factors
7. Made by an increasingly educated and informed public.
8. Organic
9. Learning system potential (if only we can get it right)
We can continue the list of course, but the bottom line is what we are
describing here is a classic chaotic system.
C. Conclusion: We need an entirely new transportation
paradigm for planning, policy and practice - call it for now an Open
Systems Model. But this does not mean that we can afford to turn our
backs on the enormous technical competence that the transportation
planning fraternity ahs developed, including in the critical area of
transport modeling and simulations analysis.
But more on that to follow.
.........
Kind thanks for sharing your thoughts and suggestions with us on this,
either in private if you prefer to
postmaster@ecoPlan.org or to the group as a whole. I look forward with
enormous interest and hope to your responses and guidance.
Eric Britton
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From ericbruun at earthlink.net Mon Aug 16 08:59:42 2004
From: ericbruun at earthlink.net (Eric Bruun)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 19:59:42 -0400
Subject: [sustran] UITP and women's transport needs
References: <20040815043340.10B273960@sitemail.everyone.net>
Message-ID: <012201c4839a$2b566120$1cf945cf@earthlink.net>
Dear all:
Yet another interesting group is the UITP's committee on the urban public
transport needs of women. It can be found through www.uitp.com.
Eric
----- Original Message -----
From: "Priyanthi Fernando"
To: "Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport"
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 12:33 AM
Subject: [sustran] Re: We have a major problem here,and you can help to set
it right.
> Dear all
>
> I am picking this up in transit - but am very interested that you should
have begun this discussion. More thoughts about the whys and wherefores
later - but just to let you know also that there is a specific gender and
transport ediscussion list called GATNET, where, I would suspect a majority
of the subscribers are women. You can join this list and maybe ask these
questions - to join go to www.dgroups.org
>
> More later
>
> Priyanthi Fernando
>
>
>
> --- "Carlos Felipe Pardo V." wrote:
> I think the topic of gender is interesting. In Bogot we have done research
on why the people who are part of a transport organization are mainly men,
and found really nice things, especially when we saw the specific cases in
which women were managers or drivers of bus companies.
> Thus, the same reflection applied to this group might prove more
interesting. Why is it that women don't participate in these things? Does
someone have any research on women's relationship with the topic of
transport? Is it the same gender-biased question as is "Why don't men like
cutting flowers and smelling them?" I'm willing to do some research on thie
first topic (being a psychologist), want to join me?
>
> Just another thought,
>
> i-ce@cycling.nl wrote:
>
> Dear all,
>
> I understand what Brendan means. I will give you all, as a woman and
> as an "outsider" my point of view.
> I am a woman and urban designer, interested in cycling (and walking).
> The sustran-Discussions seem to me sometimes very personal and
> based on own experiences rather than on broad experience. (Like: I
> once was in the bus in..... and I noticed). Please note that I mentioned
> sometimes ;-)
> I am not a traffic engineer. For me there is much more to life than
> sustainable transport. The Bogota story is about public space. I know
> the BRT system there is a wide success and without a BRT system you
> won't be able to create space for pedestrians and cyclists, but a really
> important part of the model is the importance of public space for
> society.
>
> When you think of adding topic to invite more people: we receive
> already lots of emails when it is only about busses. Maybe it is already
> existing without me noticing it, but what about a website where you can
> place discussion document (it takes more time to prepare, to think and
> the opportunity to leave out offences) and people can react to that.
> These discussions can be one specific topics. The emails are only to let
> everybody know that there is something new and interesting to find
> there about....
>
> Well, that was it for this female urban designer.
>
> Kind regards to all of you.
>
> Danielle Wijnen
>
>
>
>
>
> On 11 Aug 2004 at 13:22, Brendan Finn wrote:
>
> >
> > Dear Kisan and Eric,
> >
> > I think Kisan's points are interesting.
> >
> > I would also add that style and tone of discussions may also have
something to do with it. Guys
> > tend to seek victory in their participation, whether through "robust
argument", inflicting crushing
> > defeat on the opposition, or carefully structured arguments designed to
show futility of alternative
> > viewpoints. Not everyone considers this to be 'discussion', and some
will avoid participation in
> > what they perceive to be a gladiatorial pit.
> >
> > Just a thought :o)
> >
> >
> > Brendan Finn.
> > _______________________________________________________________________
> > Contact details are : e-mail : etts@indigo.ie tel : +353.87.2530286
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Kisan Mehta
> > To: Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:08 PM
> > Subject: [sustran] Re: We have a major problem here,and you can help to
set it right.
> >
> > Dear Eric and colleagues,
> >
> > Reason for less participation by females may be our networking becoming
too technical and too
> > location specific.Transportation has many more facesthan technical and
economic. Discussions
> > in the internet hover around these aspects.
> >
> > In our discussions we forget that social and psychological aspects are
more important.In the poor
> > countries the feeling of being alienated by resorting to high sounding
technological aspects makes
> > the common man and there women ignoring the issues. They become victims
of the tyranny of
> > technology and economics.
> >
> > Inthe male dominated government that, we have developed and are
voraciously guarding, all high
> > posts are occupied by men denying access to women.
> >
> > In the poor countries, in choosingthe modes of traffic for travel, it is
the man's preference that
> > gets higher priority. If stricken with no money, the money will be used
by the man for his choice of
> > mode of traffic while the woman is left to lower mode and somtimes to
walking. If the family is
> > taking the first car, it is normal to register in the man's name and he
is given solecharge though
> > the costs are debited to the family income.
> >
> > Participation, I am afraid, will most likely remain male dominated even
if all of us introducetwo
> > female potential participants. Can we change the focus to more social
aspect which in fact is the
> > base for transportation. Best wishes.
> >
> > Kisan Mehta
> > Rwel: 00 91 22 2414 9688
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: eric.britton@ecoplan.org
> > To: WorldTransport@yahoogroups.com
> > Cc: Sustran-discuss@jca.ax.apc.org
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 9:37 PM
> > Subject: [sustran] We have a major problem here,and you can help to set
it right.
> >
> > Tuesday, August 10, 2004, Paris, France, Europe
> >
> > Dear Colleagues,
> >
> > We have a major problem here, and you can help to set it right.
> >
> > I have just inspected the listing of the hundreds of us who are sharing
our
> > information and thoughts on these matters of sustainable development and
> > sustainable mobility more specifically, and I note a dangerous anomaly.
We are
> > more than 90% male in this forum
> >
> > Is this a trivial fact of 21st century life? Unavoidable? Neither. In
fact, it has long
> > been my belief that one of the main reasons why we have failed over all
these years
> > to create better and softer mobility systems in our cities is that we
have de facto
> > turned over the job to taskforces almost entirely of men, and not only
that men who
> > went to college to learn how to move volumes fast and efficiently in
rather
> > undifferentiated ways. We have, I have to say, created an almost all
male
> > transportation paradigm.
> >
> > We need help and were lucky -- it is right at hand. So lets start with
this forum and
> > let me ask each of you to take the time to send me the names and emails
of at least
> > two capable female colleagues whom we can bring into our considerations
and
> > achieve the kind of balance which has been needed behind the wise
decision making
> > in our field for far too long.
> >
> > Incidentally, if we can find ways to tempt in people with backgrounds
that extend
> > beyond the usual limits of the traditionally dominant fields, and in
particular in such
> > areas as cultural anthropology, behavioral psychology, community
relations, and
> > public health, I think we would be able to make real progress. (Of
course we have to
> > make it interesting for them, but its my theory that once we open these
doors they
> > will figure out how to do this for themselves. And change us all in the
process.
> >
> > (I wonder how many of you are going to accept this challenge. ;-)
> >
> > Eric Britton
> >
> > The Commons: Increasing the uncomfort zone for hesitant administrators
and politicians;
> > pioneering new concepts for business, entrepreneurs, activists,
community groups, and local
> > government; and through our joint efforts, energy and personal choices,
placing them and ourselves
> > firmly on the path to a more sustainable and more just society.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ***************************************************
> I-ce = Interface for Cycling Expertise
> New adress: Trans 3
> 3512 JJ Utrecht
> The Netherlands
> tel: +31 30 230 4521
> fax: +31 30 231 2384
> email: i-ce@cycling.nl
> www.cycling.nl
> ***************************************************
>
>
>
> Carlos F. Pardo V.
> Pardinus Research
> pardinus@yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
From sppbpa at nus.edu.sg Tue Aug 17 15:03:27 2004
From: sppbpa at nus.edu.sg (Paul Barter)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:03:27 +0800
Subject: [sustran] FW: [cai-asia] Asian AirE-mail News Digest Vol. 1,
Issue 5 (13 August 2004)
Message-ID: <0C270D0ABD2B8B44900A88DE0887F49A046747@MBOX01.stf.nus.edu.sg>
Apologies to those who have already seen this newsletter. I have cut
items not relevant to the main focus of sustran-discuss. Apologies if
some time-sensitive links no longer work. Wherever I have cut material
you will see ...
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: aables@adb.org [mailto:aables@adb.org]
Sent: Friday, 13 August 2004 5:54 PM
To: Paul Barter
Subject: [cai-asia] Asian AirE-mail News Digest Vol. 1, Issue 5 (13
August 2004)
========================================================================
========
Asian AirE-mail News Digest Vol. 1, Issue 5
13 August 2004
========================================================================
========
...
Subic-Clark-Tarlac toll project probe sought
Judy T. Gulane, BusinessWorld (13 Aug 2004) - PHILIPPINES: A resolution
in the House of Representatives has directed the Committee on Oversight
to conduct an inquiry in aid of legislation into the "alleged
overpricing" of the first portion Subic-Clark-Tarlac Expressway Project
that will be undertaken by the Bases Conversion Development Authority
(BCDA).
http://bworldonline.com/current/TheNation/nationstory4.html
http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia/1412/article-58890.html
Metro Phase-II work to start in one go
Nidhi Sharma,TIMES NEWS NETWORK (13 AUGUST 2004 04:34:21 AM) - NEW
DELHI, INDIA: Be it the upmarket Hauz Khas and Jor Bagh or the upcoming
New Ashok Nagar or wannabe Jahangirpuri, Metro will start construction
all over the city in one go.
http://www1.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/articleshow?msid=812950
http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia/1412/article-58891.html
...
Stiff competition from radio taxi service
R.S.N. MURALI, MetroKL (12 Aug 2004) - KUALA LUMPUR, MALAYSIA: TAXI
drivers in Seremban want the Negri Sembilan Government to find a
solution to the problem of stiff competition from radio taxi service,
which was introduced in the district a couple of years ago.
http://metro.thestar.com.my/news/2004/8/8622715.html
http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia/1412/article-58883.html
...
MRT stalls anew
INQ7.net (Updated 12:59pm (Mla time) 12 Aug 2004) - MANILA, PHILIPPINES:
OPERATIONS of the Metro Rail Transit (MRT) on EDSA stalled anew on
Thursday after a "cut power source" stopped a train at the Kamuning
station in Quezon City, a spokesman for the MRT said.
http://news.inq7.net/breaking/index.php?index=2&story_id=3885
http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia/1412/article-58885.html
Selective oil price hike pushed in Congress
Maila Ager,INQ7.net (Updated 07:11am (Mla time) 12 Aug 2004) -
PHILIPPINES: LEGISLATION allowing a selective oil price increase,
targeted at affluent consumers, is being prepared at the House of
Representatives.
http://beta.inq7.net/breaking/index.php?index=1&story_id=3869
http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia/1412/article-58886.html
Justice dep't still to decide on who gets MRT-3 project
B. L. Lorenzo, BusinessWorld (11 Aug 2004) - MANILA, PHILIPPINES: The
lack of a Department of Justice (DoJ) opinion is delaying a
three-station expansion of the Metro Rail Transit Line 3 (MRT3) which is
scheduled to start this year.
http://bworldonline.com/current/TheEconomy/ecostory3.html
http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia/1412/article-58877.html
Jakarta administration to revise 3-in-1 traffic policy
Bambang Nurbianto, The Jakarta Post (11 Aug 2004) - JAKARTA, INDONESIA:
In response to demands by businessmen operating in Glodok business
district, West Jakarta, the Jakarta administration will delay the
afternoon three-in-one traffic restriction by half an hour.
http://www.thejakartapost.com/detailheadlines.asp?fileid=20040811.@02&ir
ec=1
http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia/1412/article-58878.html
Petrol tops B20 mark today, but diesel capped
Bangkok Post (11 Aug 2004) - BANGKOK, THAILAND: The government has
raised retail petrol prices by 60 satang a litre from today in line with
rising global oil prices.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/11Aug2004_news05.php
http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia/1412/article-58879.html
Four cities unite to collect overdue tax from MRT
Editor's Note: Published on page A21 of the August 11, 2004 issue of the
Philippine Daily Inquirer
Tina Santos, Inquirer News Service (Updated 11:25pm (Mla time) 10 Aug
2004) - MANILA, PHILIPPINES: FOUR local government units that are host
to the Metro Rail Transit (MRT) have "joined forces" to compel the firm
to settle its more than P4 billion in tax obligations.
http://beta.inq7.net/metro/index.php?index=1&story_id=3613
http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia/1412/article-58880.html
...
House bill seeks hike in motor vehicle users fee
Judy T. Gulane, BusinessWorld (10 Aug 2004) - MANILA, PHILIPPINES:
Another round of increase in the motor vehicle users charge (MVUC) has
been proposed by Quezon Rep. Danilo E. Suarez at the House of
Representatives.
http://bworldonline.com/current/TopStories/topstory4.html
http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia/1412/article-58866.html
Fresh traffic woes hit valley folk
MetroKL (10 Aug 2004) - KUALA LUMPUR, MALAYSIA: ON June 2, Klang Valley
motorists heaved a sigh of relief when a stretch of the New Klang Valley
Expressway near Bukit Lanjan reopened after six months following a
rockfall. Two months earlier, the New Pantai Expressway also opened,
giving motorists an alternative route to the Federal Highway. Their
relief, however, is shortlived because two projects in Subang Jaya, are
expected to worsen the problem for at least another year. Works Minister
Datuk Seri Samy Vellu's announcement on Sunday that a stretch of the
MRR2 would be closed due to structural defects, will also result in jams
for motorists from Kepong, Sungai Buloh, Bandar Sri Damansara, and
Selayang. K.ANURADHA and CHOW HOW BAN examine the situation.
http://metro.thestar.com.my/news/2004/8/8624514.html
http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia/1412/article-58867.html
Traffic snarl due to testing of SCAT sensor
Bavani M., MetroKL (10 Aug 2004) - MALAYSIA: Motorists heading to the
city via the New Pantai Expressway (NPE) were caught in a traffic snarl
at the Jalan Bangsar/Jalan Maarof and Jalan Travers traffic lights
junction heading to Brickfields yesterday morning.
http://metro.thestar.com.my/news/2004/8/8624643.html
http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia/1412/article-58868.html
Fuel conservation measures proposed
Felipe F. Salvosa II, BusinessWorld (10 Aug 2004) - MANILA, PHILIPPINES:
Businessman Raul T. Concepcion yesterday called on Congress to grant
special powers to president Gloria Macapagal Arroyo, saying there was a
need to impose energy conservation measures to mitigate rising oil
prices in the world market.
http://bworldonline.com/current/TopStories/topstory5.html
http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia/1412/article-58869.html
Yee: Reschedule repair works to alleviate jams
MetroKL (10 Aug 2004) - KUALA LUMPUR, MALAYSIA: AN ill-planned closure
of an overpass on the Middle Ring Road 2 stretch between the Forestry
Research Institute of Malaysia (FRIM) and Taman Bukit Maluri
interchanges in Kepong caught thousands of motorists unaware over the
weekend when they were stuck in a traffic jam for hours.
http://metro.thestar.com.my/news/2004/8/8625106.html
http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia/1412/article-58870.html
City drafts regulation to carry out traffic law
Liu Li, China Daily (10 Aug 2004 05:58) - BEIJING, CHINA: A new traffic
law that forces drivers to pay compensation to any pedestrian or
non-motorized vehicle involved in a traffic accidents has come under
fire from Beijing residents.
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-08/10/content_363706.htm
http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia/1412/article-58875.html
...
Davao City mayor to plan 'simple commuter railway system'
HERNANI P. DE LEON, Mindanao Bureau Chief, BusinessWorld (9 Aug 2004) -
DAVAO CITY, PHILIPPINES: The city government is seriously looking at a
"simple railway commuter system," which could be developed before the
end of the decade.
http://bworldonline.com/current/TheNation/nationstory3.html
http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia/1412/article-58860.html
Makati City stops honoring MMDA coding exemption
Karl Lester M. Yap, BusinessWorld (9 Aug 2004) - MAKATI CITY,
PHILIPPINES: Makati City has stopped honoring exemptions to the Unified
Vehicular Volume Reduction Program (UVVRP) given by the Metro Manila
Development Authority effective July 16 as part of its city wide program
to control the volume of traffic in the area.
http://bworldonline.com/current/TheNation/nationstory7.html
http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia/1412/article-58861.html
...
Palace insists on oil tax, Bill seeks P2/liter levy hike to raise P29.7B
Carlito Pablo, Inquirer News Service, Agence France-Presse (Updated
11:54pm (Mla time) 08 Aug 2004) - PHILIPPINES: AS IF spiraling world oil
prices were not enough, Filipino consumers are being asked to "bite the
bullet" and bear new taxes on petroleum products.
Editor's Note: Published on page A1 of the August 9, 2004 issue of the
Philippine Daily Inquirer
http://beta.inq7.net/nation/index.php?index=1&story_id=3229
http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia/1412/article-58864.html
Helping Improve the PRC's Road Transport Industry Through Policy Reform
ADB News (6 August 2004) - MANILA, PHILIPPINES: ADB will promote policy
reforms in the road transport industry of the People's Republic of China
(PRC) to improve the sector's performance, through a technical
assistance (TA) grant approved for US$500,000.
http://www.adb.org/Media/Articles/2004/5578_PRC_road_transport_industry/
default.asp?RegistrationID=guest
ADB grants $500,000 for China roads
UPI, Washington Times (6 Aug 2004) - MANILA, PHILIPPINES: The Asian
Development Bank said Friday it will grant China $500,000 to improve its
roads.
http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20040806-113413-4249r.htm
http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia/1412/article-58872.html
Monorail project on the fast track
Saugata Roy, TIMES NEWS NETWORK (4 AUG 2004 01:19:19 AM) - KOLKATA,
INDIA: West Bengal Chief minister Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee wasn't merely
paying lip service when he announced the Light Transit Rail System.
http://www1.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/articleshow?msid=802185
http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia/1412/article-58892.html
...
_______________________________________
Aurora Fe (Au) A. Ables
Clean Air Initiative for Asian Cities (CAI-Asia)
Asian Development Bank
Phone ++632 632 4444 local 70820
Fax ++632 636 2381
Email aables@adb.org
Website http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia
From lpeterson at itdp.org Wed Aug 18 06:04:31 2004
From: lpeterson at itdp.org (Lisa Peterson)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 17:04:31 -0400
Subject: [sustran] social marketing projects
Message-ID: <003601c4849d$cb72d950$6e01a8c0@Lisa>
Dear all,
I'm looking for examples of innovative marketing/social marketing projects
in the transport sector. How are communities, NGOs, governments or others
working to change how people think about transport? To change travel
behavior? I'm most interested in specific projects that any of you may know
of. Thanks for any ideas.
Best,
Lisa
Lisa Peterson
Communications Director
Institute for Transportation and Development Policy
Subscribe to Sustainable Transport: www.itdp.org
115 West 30th Street, Suite 1205
New York, NY 10001
Ph: 212-629-8001
Fax: 212-629-8033
e-mail: lpeterson@itdp.org
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From pardinus at yahoo.com Wed Aug 18 06:16:16 2004
From: pardinus at yahoo.com (Carlos Felipe Pardo V.)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:16:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sustran] Re: social marketing projects
In-Reply-To: <003601c4849d$cb72d950$6e01a8c0@Lisa>
Message-ID: <20040817211616.83936.qmail@web20323.mail.yahoo.com>
Hey Lisa,
OECD has a book called "The role of soft measures" that focuses on factor influencing mode choice and travel behavior. Though it's mostly in europe, but I think it's really nice.
Hope it helps,
Lisa Peterson wrote:
Dear all,
I’m looking for examples of innovative marketing/social marketing projects in the transport sector. How are communities, NGOs, governments or others working to change how people think about transport? To change travel behavior? I’m most interested in specific projects that any of you may know of. Thanks for any ideas.
Best,
Lisa
Lisa Peterson
Communications Director
Institute for Transportation and Development Policy
Subscribe to Sustainable Transport: www.itdp.org
115 West 30th Street, Suite 1205
New York, NY 10001
Ph: 212-629-8001
Fax: 212-629-8033
e-mail: lpeterson@itdp.org
Carlos F. Pardo V.
Pardinus Research
pardinus@yahoo.com
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
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From intlbike at ibike.org Wed Aug 18 07:35:25 2004
From: intlbike at ibike.org (David Mozer)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:35:25 -0700
Subject: [sustran] Re: social marketing projects
In-Reply-To: <003601c4849d$cb72d950$6e01a8c0@Lisa>
Message-ID: <000701c484aa$8053d160$77cd3f40@m8v9r9>
Metro King County (Seattle, WA USA) has been working with neighborhoods to
encourage residents to "Forget the Car!" Some details are posted at
http://www.metrokc.gov/inmotion
International Bicycle Fund - www.ibike.org
Promoting sustainable transport and understanding worldwide.
A non-profit organization.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:05 PM
To: 'Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport'
Subject: [sustran] social marketing projects
Dear all,
I'm looking for examples of innovative marketing/social marketing projects
in the transport sector. How are communities, NGOs, governments or others
working to change how people think about transport? To change travel
behavior? I'm most interested in specific projects that any of you may know
of. Thanks for any ideas.
Best,
Lisa
Lisa Peterson
Communications Director
Institute for Transportation and Development Policy
Subscribe to Sustainable Transport: www.itdp.org
115 West 30th Street, Suite 1205
New York, NY 10001
Ph: 212-629-8001
Fax: 212-629-8033
e-mail: lpeterson@itdp.org
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From litman at vtpi.org Wed Aug 18 07:48:44 2004
From: litman at vtpi.org (Todd Alexander Litman)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:48:44 -0700
Subject: [sustran] Re: social marketing projects
In-Reply-To: <003601c4849d$cb72d950$6e01a8c0@Lisa>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20040817154738.03c1e150@mail.highspeedplus.com>
See the "TDM Marketing" chapter of our Online TDM Encyclopedia
(http://www.vtpi.org/tdm/tdm23.htm). It includes case studies and references.
At 05:04 PM 8/17/2004 -0400, Lisa Peterson wrote:
>Dear all,
>
>
>
>I m looking for examples of innovative marketing/social marketing projects
>in the transport sector. How are communities, NGOs, governments or others
>working to change how people think about transport? To change travel
>behavior? I m most interested in specific projects that any of you may
>know of. Thanks for any ideas.
>
>
>
>Best,
>
>Lisa
>
>
>
>
>
>Lisa Peterson
>
>
>
>Communications Director
>
>Institute for Transportation and Development Policy
>
>
>
>Subscribe to Sustainable Transport: www.itdp.org
>
>
>
>115 West 30th Street, Suite 1205
>
>New York, NY 10001
>
>Ph: 212-629-8001
>
>Fax: 212-629-8033
>
>e-mail: lpeterson@itdp.org
>
>
Sincerely,
Todd Litman, Director
Victoria Transport Policy Institute
"Efficiency - Equity - Clarity"
1250 Rudlin Street
Victoria, BC, V8V 3R7, Canada
Phone & Fax: 250-360-1560
Email: litman@vtpi.org
Website: http://www.vtpi.org
From paulbarter at nus.edu.sg Wed Aug 18 11:55:14 2004
From: paulbarter at nus.edu.sg (Paul Barter)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:55:14 +0800
Subject: [sustran] Re: social marketing projects
Message-ID: <0C270D0ABD2B8B44900A88DE0887F49A046749@MBOX01.stf.nus.edu.sg>
Lisa
There is of course the new and flourishing area of 'individualised
marketing of travel behaviour change'.
As a start see http://www.travelsmart.gov.au/index.html for Australian
examples.
See also www.socialdata.de - they are the pioneers and still the leaders
in this area I believe.
Paul
Dr Paul A. Barter
Visiting Fellow, Lee Kuan Yew School of Public Policy,
National University of Singapore
5 Arts Link, Singapore 117570
Tel: +65-6874 3324; Fax: +65-6778 1020
Email: paulbarter@nus.edu.sg
I am speaking for myself, not for my employers.
From ecoplan.adsl at wanadoo.fr Wed Aug 18 15:05:02 2004
From: ecoplan.adsl at wanadoo.fr (ecoplan.adsl@wanadoo.fr)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 08:05:02 +0200
Subject: [sustran] Re: social marketing projects
In-Reply-To: <003601c4849d$cb72d950$6e01a8c0@Lisa>
Message-ID: <005101c484e9$4df450c0$6501a8c0@home>
Hi Lisa,
I am not sure if it is exactly marketing - though marketing surely is
one of the key pillars of making it work - but you may want to have a
flying look at the Toronto link in our New Mobility Agenda (to be
expanded and updated significantly in the weeks immediately ahead.)
Best,
Eric
Technology. Economy. Society.
Francis Eric Knight Britton
Managing Director
EcoPlan International
8/10, rue Joseph Bara
75006 Paris, France, Europe
ecoplan.adsl@wanadoo.fr
eric.britton@ecoplan.org
www.ecoplan.org +
www.ericbritton.org
tel:
fax:
+33 (1) 4326 1323
+33 (1) 5301 2896
Signature powered by Plaxo
Want a signature like this?
Add me to your address book...
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From ecoplan.adsl at wanadoo.fr Fri Aug 20 17:58:45 2004
From: ecoplan.adsl at wanadoo.fr (ecoplan.adsl@wanadoo.fr)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:58:45 +0200
Subject: [sustran] under-representation of women in transport-related fora
Message-ID: <000f01c48693$e6f0ed00$6501a8c0@home>
-----Original Message-----
From: Tanzarn Nite [mailto:ntanzarn@ss.mak.ac.ug]
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 9:52 AM
To: Gender and Transport
Subject: [gatnet] Re: Invitation to visit, possibly join New Mobility
Agenda?
I am called Nite Tanzarn, a female Ugandan. I have been working in the
transport sector as a researcher/consultant for some time now with a
focus
on socio-economic and gender concerns. I am preparing for my Phd on
Gendered
Time Poverty in Development Management - Maximising the (economic)
Benefits
of Investment in Roads - the focus is on women's relative immobility
related
to work burden, inadequate access (infrastructure and means of
transport)
and how this renders their labour non-transferable from the domestic to
the
market economy.
I would be interested in joining the New Mobility Agenda. I have also
been
concerned about the under-representation of women in transport-related
fora.
Many times I attend meetings/workshops where I am the only woman. The
expressions that I see on the male colleagues' faces many times read:
"What
are you doing here." I acknowledge the inroads that have been made
(gatnet
being one of them, thanks to Pri) but a lot more needs to be done. I
hope
that this fora will not only improve women's visibility in the sector
but
also contribute to addressing other prevalent gender inequalities in the
sector.
Best Regards
Nite
eric.britton@ecoplan.org writes:
> It has been kindly suggested by our colleague Priyanthi Fernando of
> IFRTD that we get in touch with GATNET in the following context. This
is
> the first of two recent emails which express our concern about grossly
> inadequate representation of women in participation and leadership
> positions in our sector. We invite you to have a look at the New
> Mobility Agenda at http://newmobility.org ,
> and in the event that you feel it can be useful to you, well it would
be
> wonderful to have you with us. I will post the second note in this
> series later today so that you can see the kinds of reactions this
call
> of 10 August has been greeted.
>
>
>
> Kind regards, Eric Britton
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
sustran-discuss-bounces+eric.britton=ecoplan.org@list.jca.apc.org
>
[mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+eric.britton=ecoplan.org@list.jca.apc.or
> g] On Behalf Of eric.britton@ecoplan.org
> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:08 PM
> To: WorldTransport@yahoogroups.com
> Cc: Sustran-discuss@jca.ax.apc.org
> Subject: [sustran] We have a major problem here, and you can help to
set
> it right.
>
>
>
> Tuesday, August 10, 2004, Paris, France, Europe
>
>
>
> Dear Colleagues,
>
>
>
> We have a major problem here, and you can help to set it right.
>
>
>
> I have just inspected the listing of the hundreds of us who are
sharing
> our information and thoughts on these matters of sustainable
development
> and sustainable mobility more specifically, and I note a dangerous
> anomaly. We are more than 90% male in this forum
>
>
>
> Is this a trivial fact of 21st century life? Unavoidable? Neither.
In
> fact, it has long been my belief that one of the main reasons why we
> have failed over all these years to create better and softer mobility
> systems in our cities is that we have de facto turned over the job to
> taskforces almost entirely of men, and not only that men who went to
> college to learn how to move volumes fast and 'efficiently' in rather
> undifferentiated ways. We have, I have to say, created an almost all
> male transportation paradigm.
>
>
>
> We need help and we're lucky -- it is right at hand. So let's start
> with this forum and let me ask each of you to take the time to send me
> the names and emails of at least two capable female colleagues whom we
> can bring into our considerations and achieve the kind of balance
which
> has been needed behind the wise decision making in our field for far
too
> long.
>
>
>
> Incidentally, if we can find ways to tempt in people with backgrounds
> that extend beyond the usual limits of the traditionally dominant
> fields, and in particular in such areas as cultural anthropology,
> behavioral psychology, community relations, and public health, I think
> we would be able to make real progress. (Of course we have to make it
> interesting for them, but it's my theory that once we open these doors
> they will figure out how to do this for themselves. And change us all
> in the process.
>
>
>
> (I wonder how many of you are going to accept this challenge. ;-)
>
>
>
> Eric Britton
>
>
>
> The Commons: Increasing the uncomfort zone for hesitant administrators
> and politicians; pioneering new concepts for business, entrepreneurs,
> activists, community groups, and local government; and through our
joint
> efforts, energy and personal choices, placing them and ourselves
firmly
> on the path to a more sustainable and more just society.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dgroups is a joint initiative of Bellanet, DFID, Hivos, ICA, IICD,
OneWorld, UNAIDS
> --- You are currently subscribed to gatnet as: ntanzarn@ss.mak.ac.ug
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to %%email.unsub%%
Dgroups is a joint initiative of Bellanet, DFID, Hivos, ICA, IICD,
OneWorld, UNAIDS
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From ankraut at wlink.com.np Fri Aug 20 21:32:18 2004
From: ankraut at wlink.com.np (Anil K. Raut)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 18:17:18 +0545
Subject: [sustran] Information on 'Bike Taxi'
Message-ID: <2dc001c486b3$25c56d20$a52b4fca@Anil>
Dear Friends:
Could anyone help me finding out information on 'Bike Taxi'? I have seen it in Bangkok. Are there other cities using it? What are the environmental benefit/cost of these bike taxies?
More importantly, do they play role on congested cities and are their role important on 'Transport Management'?
If possible, I would like to have some pictures of these taxies.
Thank you for your help.
Regards,
Anil K. Raut
----------------------------
Anil K. Raut
P. O. Box 8846
Kathmandu, NEPAL
E-mail: ankraut@wlink.com.np; anil@environmentnepal.com.np
Tel: 977-1-4232761 (Res.)/977-9841233941 (Mobile)
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From pardinus at yahoo.com Fri Aug 20 23:35:42 2004
From: pardinus at yahoo.com (Carlos Felipe Pardo V.)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 07:35:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
In-Reply-To: <2dc001c486b3$25c56d20$a52b4fca@Anil>
Message-ID: <20040820143542.11249.qmail@web20321.mail.yahoo.com>
The bike taxi initiative is interesting. The United States has some in small cities, Barcelona has beautiful models and ITDP has designed some for India (specifically, bicycle rickshaws). Bogotá had some very good ideas but there was a legislation that banned them from the streets. They were even being "feeders" to the TransMilenio system!
I don't know of any cost/benefit analysis, though ITDP people must have these. I will send you some pictures and documents to your personal email.
"Anil K. Raut" wrote:
Dear Friends:
Could anyone help me finding out information on 'Bike Taxi'? I have seen it in Bangkok. Are there other cities using it? What are the environmental benefit/cost of these bike taxies?
More importantly, do they play role on congested cities and are their role important on 'Transport Management'?
If possible, I would like to have some pictures of these taxies.
Thank you for your help.
Regards,
Anil K. Raut
----------------------------
Anil K. Raut
P. O. Box 8846
Kathmandu, NEPAL
E-mail: ankraut@wlink.com.np; anil@environmentnepal.com.np
Tel: 977-1-4232761 (Res.)/977-9841233941 (Mobile)
Carlos F. Pardo V.
Pardinus Research
pardinus@yahoo.com
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
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From intlbike at ibike.org Sat Aug 21 09:07:40 2004
From: intlbike at ibike.org (David Mozer)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 17:07:40 -0700
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
In-Reply-To: <2dc001c486b3$25c56d20$a52b4fca@Anil>
Message-ID: <001101c48712$e503a940$0400a8c0@domain.actdsltmp>
The International Bicycle Fund has some links to people involved in this
area at
www.ibike.org/economics/pedicab.htm. As you look around recognize that they
are also commonly called pedi-cabs and rickshaws.
International Bicycle Fund - www.ibike.org
Promoting sustainable transport and understanding worldwide.
A non-profit organization.
-----Original Message-----
From: sustran-discuss-bounces+intlbike=ibike.org@list.jca.apc.org
[mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+intlbike=ibike.org@list.jca.apc.org] On
Behalf Of Anil K. Raut
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 5:32 AM
To: sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org
Subject: [sustran] Information on 'Bike Taxi'
Importance: High
Dear Friends:
Could anyone help me finding out information on 'Bike Taxi'? I have seen it
in Bangkok. Are there other cities using it? What are the environmental
benefit/cost of these bike taxies?
More importantly, do they play role on congested cities and are their role
important on 'Transport Management'?
If possible, I would like to have some pictures of these taxies.
Thank you for your help.
Regards,
Anil K. Raut
----------------------------
Anil K. Raut
P. O. Box 8846
Kathmandu, NEPAL
E-mail: ankraut@wlink.com.np; anil@environmentnepal.com.np
Tel: 977-1-4232761 (Res.)/977-9841233941 (Mobile)
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From itdpasia at adelphia.net Sun Aug 22 21:43:22 2004
From: itdpasia at adelphia.net (John Ernst)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 19:43:22 +0700
Subject: [sustran] Re: FW: [cai-asia] Asian AirE-mail News Digest Vol. 1,
Issue 5 (13 August 2004)
In-Reply-To: <0C270D0ABD2B8B44900A88DE0887F49A046747@MBOX01.stf.nus.edu.
sg>
References: <0C270D0ABD2B8B44900A88DE0887F49A046747@MBOX01.stf.nus.edu.sg>
Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.0.20040822131858.01c90ec0@pop.abs.adelphia.net>
Thanks for forwarding this, Paul. It is interesting to me that this
newsletter is coming from the Clean Air Initiative, and yet the editorial
angle does not seem to distinguish between events that work for, or
against, that initiative.
Although, it is mostly objective, the small existing bias seems to be very
naive in terms of transport policy. For example, a negative implication
for increasing gas taxes, and the general interest in erasing traffic jams
without considering the long-term implications of improving the convenience
of the private vehicle mode.
These two snips are examples:
>Fresh traffic woes hit valley folk
>
>MetroKL (10 Aug 2004) - KUALA LUMPUR, MALAYSIA: ON June 2, Klang Valley
>motorists heaved a sigh of relief when a stretch of the New Klang Valley
>Expressway near Bukit Lanjan reopened after six months following a
>rockfall.
...
>Palace insists on oil tax, Bill seeks P2/liter levy hike to raise P29.7B
>
>Carlito Pablo, Inquirer News Service, Agence France-Presse (Updated
>11:54pm (Mla time) 08 Aug 2004) - PHILIPPINES: AS IF spiraling world oil
>prices were not enough, Filipino consumers are being asked to "bite the
>bullet" and bear new taxes on petroleum products.
[Note that this comment is my own, and not necessarily that of ITDP.]
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
John Ernst - Director, Asia Region
ITDP - The Institute for Transport and Development Policy
Subscribe to ITDP's Sustainable Transport e-update at www.itdp.org
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
From kviethung at gmx.de Mon Aug 23 02:44:45 2004
From: kviethung at gmx.de (Viet Hung Khuat)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 19:44:45 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
References: <20040820143542.11249.qmail@web20321.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9683.1093196685@www27.gmx.net>
It is nice to see the requirements,
The Bike taxi is very popular in Vietnam from City to Village.
I will send you some pcitures later.
Best luck,
HUNG
> The bike taxi initiative is interesting. The United States has some in
> small cities, Barcelona has beautiful models and ITDP has designed some
for
> India (specifically, bicycle rickshaws). Bogot? had some very good ideas
but
> there was a legislation that banned them from the streets. They were even
> being "feeders" to the TransMilenio system!
> I don't know of any cost/benefit analysis, though ITDP people must have
> these. I will send you some pictures and documents to your personal email.
>
> "Anil K. Raut" wrote:
> Dear Friends:
>
> Could anyone help me finding out information on 'Bike Taxi'? I have seen
> it in Bangkok. Are there other cities using it? What are the environmental
> benefit/cost of these bike taxies?
>
> More importantly, do they play role on congested cities and are their role
> important on 'Transport Management'?
>
> If possible, I would like to have some pictures of these taxies.
>
> Thank you for your help.
>
> Regards,
>
> Anil K. Raut
> ----------------------------
> Anil K. Raut
> P. O. Box 8846
> Kathmandu, NEPAL
> E-mail: ankraut@wlink.com.np; anil@environmentnepal.com.np
> Tel: 977-1-4232761 (Res.)/977-9841233941 (Mobile)
>
>
> Carlos F. Pardo V.
> Pardinus Research
> pardinus@yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
--
****************************************
Khuat Viet Hung, M.Eng
(C/o: Prof. Manfred Boltze)
Institut fuer Verkehr, TU Darmstadt
Petersenstrasse 30, 64287 Darmstadt, Deutschland
Tel. : + 49-6151-16 2026
Fax: + 49-6151-16 2045
Superg?nstige DSL-Tarife + WLAN-Router f?r 0,- EUR*
Jetzt zu GMX wechseln und sparen http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl
From paulbarter at nus.edu.sg Mon Aug 23 10:56:59 2004
From: paulbarter at nus.edu.sg (Paul Barter)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 09:56:59 +0800
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
Message-ID: <0C270D0ABD2B8B44900A88DE0887F49A04674F@MBOX01.stf.nus.edu.sg>
In the responses to this question I wonder if there is some confusion
over what Anil meant? Maybe Anil can clarify to avoid further confusion.
Various answers seem to be refering to one of the following:
A. bicycle taxis (where a paying passenger sits on a seat behind the
rider and which I have seen in the Kota district of Jakarta for example,
and read about in Uganda);
B. pedicabs (three-wheeled pedalled vehicles as taxis, also called
cycle rickshaws, becak and many other names. Variations exist in many
countries, especially in Asia)
or
C. Motorcycle taxis (which are common in Bangkok, in many Indonesian
cities and towns, where they are called 'ojek', and probably elsewhere.)
I think this is probably what Anil meant, given his reference to
Bangkok?)
Paul
--------
Anil K. Raut" wrote:
"Could anyone help me finding out information on 'Bike Taxi'? I have
seen it in Bangkok. Are there other cities using it? What are the
environmental benefit/cost of these bike taxies?"
From ankraut at wlink.com.np Mon Aug 23 12:07:40 2004
From: ankraut at wlink.com.np (Anil K. Raut)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 08:52:40 +0545
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
References: <0C270D0ABD2B8B44900A88DE0887F49A04674F@MBOX01.stf.nus.edu.sg>
Message-ID: <006c01c488bf$007671f0$a62b4fca@Anil>
Hello Paul:
Yes, I know there are some confusions regarding my question. I was meant to the 'two-wheeler taxis' common in Bangkok. I am wondering, could these motor-bike taxis play some role in congested streets. I have seen mostly the occupancy of the regular taxi is only one person. If we could divert these customers to the motor-bike taxis, we could avoid congestion as well as the reduce the fuel consumption and also save time (fast riding).
In case of Kathmandu, there is sharp rise in motor-bike number (private) for last some years and I guess this is because of the some of these positive points of motor-bike & cost of course. BUT, I am supporter of the 'mass-transport'. So I am not saying only these motor-bike taxis would be solution, but we could explore its share on public transportation.
Any thoughts??
Regards,
Anil
----------------------------
Anil K. Raut
P. O. Box 8846
Kathmandu, NEPAL
E-mail: ankraut@wlink.com.np; anil@environmentnepal.com.np
Tel: 977-1-4232761 (Res.)/977-9841233941 (Mobile)
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Barter
To: Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 7:41 AM
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
In the responses to this question I wonder if there is some confusion
over what Anil meant? Maybe Anil can clarify to avoid further confusion.
Various answers seem to be refering to one of the following:
A. bicycle taxis (where a paying passenger sits on a seat behind the
rider and which I have seen in the Kota district of Jakarta for example,
and read about in Uganda);
B. pedicabs (three-wheeled pedalled vehicles as taxis, also called
cycle rickshaws, becak and many other names. Variations exist in many
countries, especially in Asia)
or
C. Motorcycle taxis (which are common in Bangkok, in many Indonesian
cities and towns, where they are called 'ojek', and probably elsewhere.)
I think this is probably what Anil meant, given his reference to
Bangkok?)
Paul
--------
Anil K. Raut" wrote:
"Could anyone help me finding out information on 'Bike Taxi'? I have
seen it in Bangkok. Are there other cities using it? What are the
environmental benefit/cost of these bike taxies?"
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From richmond at alum.mit.edu Mon Aug 23 14:11:33 2004
From: richmond at alum.mit.edu (Jonathan E. D. Richmond)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 12:11:33 +0700 (SE Asia Standard Time)
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
In-Reply-To: <006c01c488bf$007671f0$a62b4fca@Anil>
References: <0C270D0ABD2B8B44900A88DE0887F49A04674F@MBOX01.stf.nus.edu.sg>
<006c01c488bf$007671f0$a62b4fca@Anil>
Message-ID:
Yesterday I took a total of five motorbike taxis in Bangkok. Here's how
it happened and why. I started off on a 39 bus headed for central Bangkok.
We passed through Rangsit at around 2:30 and I thought I'd switch to the
14:37 train. So I got off the bus where a bunch of bikes were parked and
had one run me down to the train station.
Bad luck -- I just missed the train which was very unusually on time.
I walked a couple of minutes back to the main road and flagged down a 510,
which I rode to Central/Ladprao, where I switched painfiully to the
subway. I say painfully because it is hard enough to find your way from
the bus stop into the mall; then you have to exit onto another street,
walk down the road then up onto an overpass, then down to the street and
into the subway.
Took the subway to Silom station.
Now, I was going to the Sofitel which is by Chong Nansi station. But that
latter station is on the Skytrain and the Skytrain is not integrated with
the subway. To get from the subway to the Skytrain at Silom you have to go
up, exit the faregate, walk down the street, enter the Skytrain
station, and purchase a ticket and so on. Far too laborious to go one
station.
So I just hopped on a motorbike waiting outside and rode to the Sofitel in
about two or three minutes.
It was 7:40 when I wanted to come home and there is a train from Hua
Lom Pong at 20:10. Actually, as I was to discover, the 20:00 train,
indicated as not stopping at Rangsit in the timetable, does in fact
do so (there is no single timetable published of all trains between Hua
Lom Pong and Rangsit. There is a local timetable which excludes expresses.
There are two separate express timetables which need to be consulted to
get the complete picture, and there are errors in those!)
I immediately found a motorbike, (the drivers hang about
in all the right places: you can generally get one instantly) and was
taken to Hua Lom Pong -- one of my favourite buildings in
Bangkok; it reaqlly is a temple to transportation). I arrived at 19:50.
The ticket office sold me a ticket for the next available train, the
20:00.
The first few cars of the train were incredibly full, as well as without
air conditioning: real pits. There were quite a few foreigners with
baggage in there as the train also stops at the airport. They were
covered in sweat and not looking happy.
I continued walking up the platform and found a car with both air
conditioning and reclining seats. It was pretty empty. I set my seat on
maximum recline and relaxed. A ticket inspector tut-tutted and pointed me
back to the hell holes, but I indicated I would rather pay whatever was
necessary and stay where I was. He told me that was an extra 20 baht (ie.
double the 3rd class fare, which was also 20 baht, about US 50c) and that
was completely fine with me. In fact, I am sure all the people on the way
to the airport would also have been delighted to pay an extra 20 baht for
this comfort (but I was happy that they didn't as I had more space!). Of
course, the ticket office had suggested to neither them nor I that extra
comfort was available for a minimal cost.
At Rangsit station I wanted a (normal) taxi to take me home, but there
were none. Motorbikes were hanging about, however, so I had one take me
to the songtao stop (songtaos are pickup trucks with little passenger
cabins on the back). When we got there, a songtao was waiting to leave,
packed out with people hanging precariously out the back. I'm not insane
enough to try that, so I forced my way into the aisle, and the vehicle
lurched forward.
I got off at the Thammasat University stop. Motorbikes are not allowed on
my campus at AIT, but they can go down the side and stop at a back
entrance near where I live. Sure enough, bikes were waiting at the stop,
so I hopped on one and went home.
This is all a roundabout way of saying that motorbike taxis are an
excellent way to fight congestion (because they weave through the traffic)
and get you where you are going quickly in Bangkok. Because they are just
about everywhere, waiting time is insignificant. They are certainly not
for everyone, however, as you have to hang on for your life and preferably
try not to look at all the vehicles you race past with perhaps only an
inch or so to spare. Make no mistake: these drivers race as if they are in
the Grand Prix and your stomache gets turned upside down.
If Bangkok were not congested, if public transport were well-coordinated
as well as ubiquitous, the bikes, which are of course a source of
pollution, might not be nearly so important. Still, the suburban blocks
are huge and it is simply not viable for public transport to penetrate to
all points, so I can see bikes providing an important source of mobility
for those without cars under any circumstances.
--Jonathan
On Mon, 23 Aug 2004, Anil K. Raut wrote:
> Hello Paul:
>
> Yes, I know there are some confusions regarding my question. I was meant to the 'two-wheeler taxis' common in Bangkok. I am wondering, could these motor-bike taxis play some role in congested streets. I have seen mostly the occupancy of the regular taxi is only one person. If we could divert these customers to the motor-bike taxis, we could avoid congestion as well as the reduce the fuel consumption and also save time (fast riding).
>
> In case of Kathmandu, there is sharp rise in motor-bike number (private) for last some years and I guess this is because of the some of these positive points of motor-bike & cost of course. BUT, I am supporter of the 'mass-transport'. So I am not saying only these motor-bike taxis would be solution, but we could explore its share on public transportation.
>
> Any thoughts??
>
> Regards,
>
> Anil
> ----------------------------
> Anil K. Raut
> P. O. Box 8846
> Kathmandu, NEPAL
> E-mail: ankraut@wlink.com.np; anil@environmentnepal.com.np
> Tel: 977-1-4232761 (Res.)/977-9841233941 (Mobile)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Paul Barter
> To: Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport
> Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 7:41 AM
> Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
>
>
> In the responses to this question I wonder if there is some confusion
> over what Anil meant? Maybe Anil can clarify to avoid further confusion.
> Various answers seem to be refering to one of the following:
>
> A. bicycle taxis (where a paying passenger sits on a seat behind the
> rider and which I have seen in the Kota district of Jakarta for example,
> and read about in Uganda);
>
> B. pedicabs (three-wheeled pedalled vehicles as taxis, also called
> cycle rickshaws, becak and many other names. Variations exist in many
> countries, especially in Asia)
>
> or
> C. Motorcycle taxis (which are common in Bangkok, in many Indonesian
> cities and towns, where they are called 'ojek', and probably elsewhere.)
> I think this is probably what Anil meant, given his reference to
> Bangkok?)
>
> Paul
>
> --------
> Anil K. Raut" wrote:
> "Could anyone help me finding out information on 'Bike Taxi'? I have
> seen it in Bangkok. Are there other cities using it? What are the
> environmental benefit/cost of these bike taxies?"
>
-----
Jonathan E. D. Richmond 02 524-5510 (office)
Visiting Fellow Intl.: 662 524-5510
Transportation Engineering program
School of Civil Engineering, Room N260B 02 524-8257 (home)
Asian Institute of Technology Intl.: 662 524-8257
PO Box 4
Klong Luang, Pathumthani 12120 02 524-5509 (fax)
Thailand Intl: 662 524-5509
e-mail: richmond@ait.ac.th Secretary: Ms. Nisarat Hansuksa
richmond@alum.mit.edu 02 524-6051
Intl: 662 524-6051
http://the-tech.mit.edu/~richmond/
From ecoplan.adsl at wanadoo.fr Mon Aug 23 22:03:24 2004
From: ecoplan.adsl at wanadoo.fr (ecoplan.adsl@wanadoo.fr)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 15:03:24 +0200
Subject: [sustran] Support Bogota C/FD 2004
Message-ID: <00e401c48911$93c754e0$6501a8c0@home>
Monday, August 23, 2004, Paris, France, Europe
Dear Friends,
We have learned that the new mayoral administration of the city of
Bogota Colombia is hesitating about holding that city?s fourth
consecutive Car/Free Day this year. We would hate to see this fine
tradition of innovation and sustainable mobility interrupted, and we are
therefore sending this note to all of you out there to see if some of
you might be so kind as to write a short note encouraging the city?s
political leaders to continue this fine program.
Quick Background on Bogota Car/Free Days
As you may recall, this program under The Commons has taken an active
role in supporting both the first several Car/Free Days in Bogota, and
indeed for our successful collaboration for the first day back in 2000
both we and the city were jointly awarded the Stockholm Prize for
Environment. In case you are curious here are a couple of historic
reminders for this first and most important round of collaboration by
way of quick background:
* Lessons of
Bogot?'s First Car Free Day -
http://ecoplan.org/carfreeday/bogota/lessons.htm
*
Bogot? 2000 Car/Free Day International Guestbook at
http://ecoplan.org/carfreeday/bogota/bogota4-guestbook.htm - which
brought together more than one hundred letters of support for that
project.
* The Bogota Project ? at
http://ecoplan.org/votebogota2000
*
Stockholm 2000 Environment Prize Citation: ?Bogot? Car Free Day Creates
New Model for Organizing Transportation in World Cities- at
http://www.challenge.stockholm.se/feature_right.asp?IdNr=5
2004 Peer Support/Mailing:
I propose that we are modest in this approach, because it is not of
course for any of us to tell the duly elected fine of that city of seven
people what to do. But we can encourage them, not least because of the
importance of their terrific international lead which has served well
the people of Bogota, of Colombia and indeed many cities and groups
across the developing world.
There are several recommended local contact points for this, including
the mayor?s office, the city's Department of Transit and Transport., the
TransMilenio' program, and the Ciudad Humana. Since no single official
contact has yet been because time is now pressing, I propose that for
now you address your email notes of support to
mailto:bogota@ecoplan.org and we will see to
them that they are forwarded immediately to the designated contact. (We
shall also, as we usually do in these case, be pleased to post them on
this site in a place of honor, (so if you prefer not to appear there be
sure to let us know in your note).
International Coordination:
Finally, we are coordinating with two other international groups on this
support effort, for whom the respective contacts are:
* For the Institute for Transportation & Development Policy
(ITDP), Oscar Edmundo Diaz, Latin America Regional Director;
diazoe@itdp.org
* For Car Busters and the World Carfree Network: Randall Ghent,
Co-Director, Int'l Coordination Centre -
rghent@gmx.net
We shall of course be coordinating closely with and copying to them as
well.
Kind thanks for taking the time to read this note. And if you can see
your way to it replying with a short note of support here at
bogota@ecoplan.org, which we shall duly
forward. (I attach a copy of my message of support by way of example,
including for the address.
With all good wishes,
Eric Britton
The New Mobility Agenda at http://newmobility.org
The New Mobility Forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WorldTransport/
The Commons: Open Society Sustainability Initiative
Le Frene, 8/10 rue Joseph Bara, 75006 Paris, France
Tel: +331 4326 1323 Mobile: +336 8096 7879
24 hour Fax/Voicemail hotline: +33 (1) 53 01 28 96
IP Videoconference: 81.65.50.63
Email: postmaster@ecoplan.org
--------------------------------------------
Monday, August 23, 2004, Paris, France, Europe
The Honorable Luis Eduardo Garzon
Mayor of the City of Bogota
Alcald?a Mayor - City Hall
Bogota, Colombia
Reference: Support for Bogota?s forthcoming Car/Free Day project
Dear Mr. Mayor,
We would respectfully like to indicate our strong support for your
city?s participation in the forthcoming Car/Free Day project in
September.
Bogota has in recent years made a major contribution to its own citizens
in terms of innovative transportation system efficiency and quality of
life, and it is widely seen in professional circles around the world
that an important step in this process of citizen reflection,
participation and major system overhaul has in many ways been symbolized
by your leading role in organizing Car/Free Days and setting the
standard for cities around the world. As you now this considerable
achievement was awarded the Stockholm Prize for the Environment in 2000
and the year following Bogota was selected as one of the lead city? in
the United Nations Car Free Days Programme.
To give you an idea of which your lead in doing this is much appreciated
internationally I would point to the following reference --
http://ecoplan.org/carfreeday/bogota/bogota4-guestbook.htm -- which
brings together messages of congratulations and support received from .
. . Ministers, Commissioners, transport activists, professors, cyclist
groups, environmentalists, authors, international civil servants,
mayors, students and citizens of all stripes... and from the European
Commission, the United Nations, UNDP, UNESCO, OECD, International Energy
Agency, Wuppertal Institute for Climate, Environment and Energy,
International Atomic Energy Agency, and from leaders in the field from
the cities of Lima, Santiago, Kuala Lumpur, Amsterdam, Antwerp,
Birmingham, Cambridge (Mass.), London, Oxford, Lancashire, Gothenburg,
Paris, Tokyo, Brussels, Utrecht, Luxembourg, Rome, Vienna, Wuppertal,
Worcestor, Los Angeles, Alameda and Davis (California), Calgary,
Victoria (British Columbia), New Brunswick (NJ), Portland (Oregon),
Washington DC, Toronto, Adelaide, Canberra, and Perth.
With all these considerable people and groups behind you, Bogot? must be
doing something right. And for our part if there is anything that we
can do to help in this. I hope that you and your collaborators will not
hesitate to get in touch.
Respectfully,
Eric Britton
Coordinator
The New Mobility Agenda at http://newmobility.org
The New Mobility Forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WorldTransport/
The Commons: Open Society Sustainability Initiative
Le Frene, 8/10 rue Joseph Bara, 75006 Paris, France
Tel: +331 4326 1323 Mobile: +336 8096 7879
24 hour Fax/Voicemail hotline: +33 (1) 53 01 28 96
IP Videoconference: 81.65.50.63
Email: postmaster@ecoplan.org
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From kisansbc at vsnl.com Tue Aug 24 00:52:35 2004
From: kisansbc at vsnl.com (Kisan Mehta)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 21:22:35 +0530
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
References: <0C270D0ABD2B8B44900A88DE0887F49A04674F@MBOX01.stf.nus.edu.sg>
<006c01c488bf$007671f0$a62b4fca@Anil>
Message-ID: <000b01c48929$3538dd00$3226020a@im.eth.net>
Dear Colleagues,
We wonder whether two wheeler motorcycles operating as raxi carrying
the commuter on the pilion can provide alternative to single occupancy motor
cycle owners. So vehicle owners would continue to have own 2, 3 and 4
wheeler vehicles and two wheeler taxies would reduce public transport
occupancy. Net result would be more vehicles on the road or increased
inefficiency of public transport.
The only way one can hope to mitigate congestion is by making movement and
storing of petroleum guzzling vehicles severely difficultto the extent that the
owners find it exasperating and damn costly. Rising international crude oil prices
should be allowed to play their role. Though these prices are near to crossing
US $ 50 a barrel barriei and would most likely touch $ 60 coupled dueto
worsening conditions in Iraq and the Bush failure to dislodge Chavaz as the
president of Venezuela and to put up a puppet who will put Venezuela's large
potential to supply oil at the command of the USA, developing countries
continue to sibsidise heavily to vehicle owners by providing motor fuel at
extremely low rate. This promotes proliferation of vehicles.
For example, India reduced the import duty on crude to maintain the same
outlet prices to enable motorists to run their vehicles without any limit.
Retail prices in the UK is around 80 pence while in India minimum 40%
lower. Shortfall is debited to the state exchequer resulting in curtailment of
other essential services to the poor.
Anilbhai, you should look to avenues other than introducing motor bike taxies.
Nepal is solely dependent on import of every drop of fuel. You should think
of increasing publiuc transport. Best wishes.
Kisan Mehta
Tel: 00 91 22 2414 9688
Mobile: ..... 92234 48857
----- Original Message -----
From: Anil K. Raut
To: Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 8:37 AM
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
Hello Paul:
Yes, I know there are some confusions regarding my question. I was meant to the 'two-wheeler taxis' common in Bangkok. I am wondering, could these motor-bike taxis play some role in congested streets. I have seen mostly the occupancy of the regular taxi is only one person. If we could divert these customers to the motor-bike taxis, we could avoid congestion as well as the reduce the fuel consumption and also save time (fast riding).
In case of Kathmandu, there is sharp rise in motor-bike number (private) for last some years and I guess this is because of the some of these positive points of motor-bike & cost of course. BUT, I am supporter of the 'mass-transport'. So I am not saying only these motor-bike taxis would be solution, but we could explore its share on public transportation.
Any thoughts??
Regards,
Anil
----------------------------
Anil K. Raut
P. O. Box 8846
Kathmandu, NEPAL
E-mail: ankraut@wlink.com.np; anil@environmentnepal.com.np
Tel: 977-1-4232761 (Res.)/977-9841233941 (Mobile)
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Barter
To: Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 7:41 AM
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
In the responses to this question I wonder if there is some confusion
over what Anil meant? Maybe Anil can clarify to avoid further confusion.
Various answers seem to be refering to one of the following:
A. bicycle taxis (where a paying passenger sits on a seat behind the
rider and which I have seen in the Kota district of Jakarta for example,
and read about in Uganda);
B. pedicabs (three-wheeled pedalled vehicles as taxis, also called
cycle rickshaws, becak and many other names. Variations exist in many
countries, especially in Asia)
or
C. Motorcycle taxis (which are common in Bangkok, in many Indonesian
cities and towns, where they are called 'ojek', and probably elsewhere.)
I think this is probably what Anil meant, given his reference to
Bangkok?)
Paul
--------
Anil K. Raut" wrote:
"Could anyone help me finding out information on 'Bike Taxi'? I have
seen it in Bangkok. Are there other cities using it? What are the
environmental benefit/cost of these bike taxies?"
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From richmond at alum.mit.edu Tue Aug 24 01:17:36 2004
From: richmond at alum.mit.edu (Jonathan E. D. Richmond)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 23:17:36 +0700 (SE Asia Standard Time)
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
In-Reply-To: <000b01c48929$3538dd00$3226020a@im.eth.net>
References: <0C270D0ABD2B8B44900A88DE0887F49A04674F@MBOX01.stf.nus.edu.sg>
<006c01c488bf$007671f0$a62b4fca@Anil>
<000b01c48929$3538dd00$3226020a@im.eth.net>
Message-ID:
It is a mistake to assume that official public transport will necessarily
result in the consumption of less fuel than motorbike taxis or that it can
replace them in many instances. A bike operating on demand in a suburban
area can be considerably more efficient than buses circulating most of the
day almost empty.
In fact, many motorbike services do operate as public transport --
charging about the same fare but providing a level of frequency not
possible with buses. For low-income people living in outlying suburbs,
there may be no alternative if density is inufficient for more formal
operations -- in fact, in many cases, the bikes actually operate from bus
stops and provide services to locations not served by buses.
So we have to be careful about making generalizations.
Note that in my case the alternative to taking a motorbike, which I
frequently use to complete a journey after a bus or train ride, would be
to take a regular taxi for the whole journey as it would simply take too
long otherwise.
--jonathan
-----
Jonathan E. D. Richmond 02 524-5510 (office)
Visiting Fellow Intl.: 662 524-5510
Transportation Engineering program
School of Civil Engineering, Room N260B 02 524-8257 (home)
Asian Institute of Technology Intl.: 662 524-8257
PO Box 4
Klong Luang, Pathumthani 12120 02 524-5509 (fax)
Thailand Intl: 662 524-5509
e-mail: richmond@ait.ac.th Secretary: Ms. Nisarat Hansuksa
richmond@alum.mit.edu 02 524-6051
Intl: 662 524-6051
http://the-tech.mit.edu/~richmond/
From pardinus at yahoo.com Tue Aug 24 08:32:28 2004
From: pardinus at yahoo.com (Carlos Felipe Pardo V.)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 16:32:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sustran] Re: Support Bogota C/FD 2004
In-Reply-To: <00e401c48911$93c754e0$6501a8c0@home>
Message-ID: <20040823233228.37154.qmail@web20326.mail.yahoo.com>
Hey everybody,
I would suggest that the letter starts congratulating the mayor on the February Carfree day this year. The argument he's given for not doing the CFD is that "two days is too much". We would have to argue this, that "two days is too little", and that the efforts done to achieve the Bogotá that we now live in (I live in Bogotá) are due to Peñalosa's and Mockus's proposals (in that order of importance). He should continue with this inertia that has been generated since the 1990's (not too far away, but it works).
I would suggest adding the following to your sample letter, based on the first paragraph:
"We would respectfully like to indicate our strong support for your city’s participation in the forthcoming Car/Free Day project in September, to repeat what you have already done in Februray this year. It would be very important for your city to have two car free days in one year for the second time, since it would contribute to Bogotá's image as an example for the world in terms of sustainable transport."
"On the other hand, your city would also be a part of the global Car Free Cities initiative, as it was last year in september 22..."
I hope it helps. Maybe we're being too defensive, don't you think?
ecoplan.adsl@wanadoo.fr wrote:
Monday, August 23, 2004, Paris, France, Europe
Dear Friends,
We have learned that the new mayoral administration of the city of Bogota Colombia is hesitating about holding that city’s fourth consecutive Car/Free Day this year. We would hate to see this fine tradition of innovation and sustainable mobility interrupted, and we are therefore sending this note to all of you out there to see if some of you might be so kind as to write a short note encouraging the city’s political leaders to continue this fine program.
Quick Background on Bogota Car/Free Days
As you may recall, this program under The Commons has taken an active role in supporting both the first several Car/Free Days in Bogota, and indeed for our successful collaboration for the first day back in 2000 both we and the city were jointly awarded the Stockholm Prize for Environment. In case you are curious here are a couple of historic reminders for this first and most important round of collaboration by way of quick background:
Lessons of Bogotá's First Car Free Day - http://ecoplan.org/carfreeday/bogota/lessons.htm
Bogotá 2000 Car/Free Day International Guestbook at http://ecoplan.org/carfreeday/bogota/bogota4-guestbook.htm - which brought together more than one hundred letters of support for that project.
The Bogota Project – at http://ecoplan.org/votebogota2000
Stockholm 2000 Environment Prize Citation: “Bogotá Car Free Day Creates New Model for Organizing Transportation in World Cities- at http://www.challenge.stockholm.se/feature_right.asp?IdNr=5
2004 Peer Support/Mailing:
I propose that we are modest in this approach, because it is not of course for any of us to tell the duly elected fine of that city of seven people what to do. But we can encourage them, not least because of the importance of their terrific international lead which has served well the people of Bogota, of Colombia and indeed many cities and groups across the developing world.
There are several recommended local contact points for this, including the mayor’s office, the city's Department of Transit and Transport., the TransMilenio' program, and the Ciudad Humana. Since no single official contact has yet been because time is now pressing, I propose that for now you address your email notes of support to mailto:bogota@ecoplan.org and we will see to them that they are forwarded immediately to the designated contact. (We shall also, as we usually do in these case, be pleased to post them on this site in a place of honor, (so if you prefer not to appear there be sure to let us know in your note).
International Coordination:
Finally, we are coordinating with two other international groups on this support effort, for whom the respective contacts are:
For the Institute for Transportation & Development Policy (ITDP), Oscar Edmundo Diaz, Latin America Regional Director; diazoe@itdp.org
For Car Busters and the World Carfree Network: Randall Ghent, Co-Director, Int'l Coordination Centre - rghent@gmx.net
We shall of course be coordinating closely with and copying to them as well.
Kind thanks for taking the time to read this note. And if you can see your way to it replying with a short note of support here at bogota@ecoplan.org, which we shall duly forward. (I attach a copy of my message of support by way of example, including for the address.
With all good wishes,
Eric Britton
The New Mobility Agenda at http://newmobility.org
The New Mobility Forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WorldTransport/
The Commons: Open Society Sustainability Initiative
Le Frene, 8/10 rue Joseph Bara, 75006 Paris, France
Tel: +331 4326 1323 Mobile: +336 8096 7879
24 hour Fax/Voicemail hotline: +33 (1) 53 01 28 96
IP Videoconference: 81.65.50.63
Email: postmaster@ecoplan.org
--------------------------------------------
Monday, August 23, 2004, Paris, France, Europe
The Honorable Luis Eduardo Garzon
Mayor of the City of Bogota
Alcaldía Mayor - City Hall
Bogota, Colombia
Reference: Support for Bogota’s forthcoming Car/Free Day project
Dear Mr. Mayor,
We would respectfully like to indicate our strong support for your city’s participation in the forthcoming Car/Free Day project in September.
Bogota has in recent years made a major contribution to its own citizens in terms of innovative transportation system efficiency and quality of life, and it is widely seen in professional circles around the world that an important step in this process of citizen reflection, participation and major system overhaul has in many ways been symbolized by your leading role in organizing Car/Free Days and setting the standard for cities around the world. As you now this considerable achievement was awarded the Stockholm Prize for the Environment in 2000 and the year following Bogota was selected as one of the lead city’ in the United Nations Car Free Days Programme.
To give you an idea of which your lead in doing this is much appreciated internationally I would point to the following reference -- http://ecoplan.org/carfreeday/bogota/bogota4-guestbook.htm -- which brings together messages of congratulations and support received from . . . Ministers, Commissioners, transport activists, professors, cyclist groups, environmentalists, authors, international civil servants, mayors, students and citizens of all stripes... and from the European Commission, the United Nations, UNDP, UNESCO, OECD, International Energy Agency, Wuppertal Institute for Climate, Environment and Energy, International Atomic Energy Agency, and from leaders in the field from the cities of Lima, Santiago, Kuala Lumpur, Amsterdam, Antwerp, Birmingham, Cambridge (Mass.), London, Oxford, Lancashire, Gothenburg, Paris, Tokyo, Brussels, Utrecht, Luxembourg, Rome, Vienna, Wuppertal, Worcestor, Los Angeles, Alameda and Davis (California), Calgary, Victoria (British Columbia), N
ew
Brunswick (NJ), Portland (Oregon), Washington DC, Toronto, Adelaide, Canberra, and Perth.
With all these considerable people and groups behind you, Bogotá must be doing something right. And for our part if there is anything that we can do to help in this. I hope that you and your collaborators will not hesitate to get in touch.
Respectfully,
Eric Britton
Coordinator
The New Mobility Agenda at http://newmobility.org
The New Mobility Forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WorldTransport/
The Commons: Open Society Sustainability Initiative
Le Frene, 8/10 rue Joseph Bara, 75006 Paris, France
Tel: +331 4326 1323 Mobile: +336 8096 7879
24 hour Fax/Voicemail hotline: +33 (1) 53 01 28 96
IP Videoconference: 81.65.50.63
Email: postmaster@ecoplan.org
Carlos F. Pardo V.
Pardinus Research
pardinus@yahoo.com
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
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From pardinus at yahoo.com Tue Aug 24 08:32:28 2004
From: pardinus at yahoo.com (Carlos Felipe Pardo V.)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 16:32:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sustran] Re: Support Bogota C/FD 2004
In-Reply-To: <00e401c48911$93c754e0$6501a8c0@home>
Message-ID: <20040823233228.37154.qmail@web20326.mail.yahoo.com>
Hey everybody,
I would suggest that the letter starts congratulating the mayor on the February Carfree day this year. The argument he's given for not doing the CFD is that "two days is too much". We would have to argue this, that "two days is too little", and that the efforts done to achieve the Bogotá that we now live in (I live in Bogotá) are due to Peñalosa's and Mockus's proposals (in that order of importance). He should continue with this inertia that has been generated since the 1990's (not too far away, but it works).
I would suggest adding the following to your sample letter, based on the first paragraph:
"We would respectfully like to indicate our strong support for your city’s participation in the forthcoming Car/Free Day project in September, to repeat what you have already done in Februray this year. It would be very important for your city to have two car free days in one year for the second time, since it would contribute to Bogotá's image as an example for the world in terms of sustainable transport."
"On the other hand, your city would also be a part of the global Car Free Cities initiative, as it was last year in september 22..."
I hope it helps. Maybe we're being too defensive, don't you think?
ecoplan.adsl@wanadoo.fr wrote:
Monday, August 23, 2004, Paris, France, Europe
Dear Friends,
We have learned that the new mayoral administration of the city of Bogota Colombia is hesitating about holding that city’s fourth consecutive Car/Free Day this year. We would hate to see this fine tradition of innovation and sustainable mobility interrupted, and we are therefore sending this note to all of you out there to see if some of you might be so kind as to write a short note encouraging the city’s political leaders to continue this fine program.
Quick Background on Bogota Car/Free Days
As you may recall, this program under The Commons has taken an active role in supporting both the first several Car/Free Days in Bogota, and indeed for our successful collaboration for the first day back in 2000 both we and the city were jointly awarded the Stockholm Prize for Environment. In case you are curious here are a couple of historic reminders for this first and most important round of collaboration by way of quick background:
Lessons of Bogotá's First Car Free Day - http://ecoplan.org/carfreeday/bogota/lessons.htm
Bogotá 2000 Car/Free Day International Guestbook at http://ecoplan.org/carfreeday/bogota/bogota4-guestbook.htm - which brought together more than one hundred letters of support for that project.
The Bogota Project – at http://ecoplan.org/votebogota2000
Stockholm 2000 Environment Prize Citation: “Bogotá Car Free Day Creates New Model for Organizing Transportation in World Cities- at http://www.challenge.stockholm.se/feature_right.asp?IdNr=5
2004 Peer Support/Mailing:
I propose that we are modest in this approach, because it is not of course for any of us to tell the duly elected fine of that city of seven people what to do. But we can encourage them, not least because of the importance of their terrific international lead which has served well the people of Bogota, of Colombia and indeed many cities and groups across the developing world.
There are several recommended local contact points for this, including the mayor’s office, the city's Department of Transit and Transport., the TransMilenio' program, and the Ciudad Humana. Since no single official contact has yet been because time is now pressing, I propose that for now you address your email notes of support to mailto:bogota@ecoplan.org and we will see to them that they are forwarded immediately to the designated contact. (We shall also, as we usually do in these case, be pleased to post them on this site in a place of honor, (so if you prefer not to appear there be sure to let us know in your note).
International Coordination:
Finally, we are coordinating with two other international groups on this support effort, for whom the respective contacts are:
For the Institute for Transportation & Development Policy (ITDP), Oscar Edmundo Diaz, Latin America Regional Director; diazoe@itdp.org
For Car Busters and the World Carfree Network: Randall Ghent, Co-Director, Int'l Coordination Centre - rghent@gmx.net
We shall of course be coordinating closely with and copying to them as well.
Kind thanks for taking the time to read this note. And if you can see your way to it replying with a short note of support here at bogota@ecoplan.org, which we shall duly forward. (I attach a copy of my message of support by way of example, including for the address.
With all good wishes,
Eric Britton
The New Mobility Agenda at http://newmobility.org
The New Mobility Forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WorldTransport/
The Commons: Open Society Sustainability Initiative
Le Frene, 8/10 rue Joseph Bara, 75006 Paris, France
Tel: +331 4326 1323 Mobile: +336 8096 7879
24 hour Fax/Voicemail hotline: +33 (1) 53 01 28 96
IP Videoconference: 81.65.50.63
Email: postmaster@ecoplan.org
--------------------------------------------
Monday, August 23, 2004, Paris, France, Europe
The Honorable Luis Eduardo Garzon
Mayor of the City of Bogota
Alcaldía Mayor - City Hall
Bogota, Colombia
Reference: Support for Bogota’s forthcoming Car/Free Day project
Dear Mr. Mayor,
We would respectfully like to indicate our strong support for your city’s participation in the forthcoming Car/Free Day project in September.
Bogota has in recent years made a major contribution to its own citizens in terms of innovative transportation system efficiency and quality of life, and it is widely seen in professional circles around the world that an important step in this process of citizen reflection, participation and major system overhaul has in many ways been symbolized by your leading role in organizing Car/Free Days and setting the standard for cities around the world. As you now this considerable achievement was awarded the Stockholm Prize for the Environment in 2000 and the year following Bogota was selected as one of the lead city’ in the United Nations Car Free Days Programme.
To give you an idea of which your lead in doing this is much appreciated internationally I would point to the following reference -- http://ecoplan.org/carfreeday/bogota/bogota4-guestbook.htm -- which brings together messages of congratulations and support received from . . . Ministers, Commissioners, transport activists, professors, cyclist groups, environmentalists, authors, international civil servants, mayors, students and citizens of all stripes... and from the European Commission, the United Nations, UNDP, UNESCO, OECD, International Energy Agency, Wuppertal Institute for Climate, Environment and Energy, International Atomic Energy Agency, and from leaders in the field from the cities of Lima, Santiago, Kuala Lumpur, Amsterdam, Antwerp, Birmingham, Cambridge (Mass.), London, Oxford, Lancashire, Gothenburg, Paris, Tokyo, Brussels, Utrecht, Luxembourg, Rome, Vienna, Wuppertal, Worcestor, Los Angeles, Alameda and Davis (California), Calgary, Victoria (British Columbia), New
Brunswick (NJ), Portland (Oregon), Washington DC, Toronto, Adelaide, Canberra, and Perth.
With all these considerable people and groups behind you, Bogotá must be doing something right. And for our part if there is anything that we can do to help in this. I hope that you and your collaborators will not hesitate to get in touch.
Respectfully,
Eric Britton
Coordinator
The New Mobility Agenda at http://newmobility.org
The New Mobility Forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WorldTransport/
The Commons: Open Society Sustainability Initiative
Le Frene, 8/10 rue Joseph Bara, 75006 Paris, France
Tel: +331 4326 1323 Mobile: +336 8096 7879
24 hour Fax/Voicemail hotline: +33 (1) 53 01 28 96
IP Videoconference: 81.65.50.63
Email: postmaster@ecoplan.org
Carlos F. Pardo V.
Pardinus Research
pardinus@yahoo.com
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
-------------- next part --------------
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From paulbarter at nus.edu.sg Tue Aug 24 11:06:50 2004
From: paulbarter at nus.edu.sg (Paul Barter)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:06:50 +0800
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
Message-ID: <0C270D0ABD2B8B44900A88DE0887F49A046753@MBOX01.stf.nus.edu.sg>
Dear Anil, Kisan and Jonathon,
I don't see taxi-like modes (including 4-wheel, 3-wheel and 2-wheel;
motorised or non-motorised) as competing with conventional public
transport. In large cities at least, a flourishing set of taxi-like
options is likely to be complementary to public transport. (smaller
towns, without any fixed-route public transport to speak of, may be
another story)
Chris Bradshaw on another list recently made a relevant point:
"There are five kinds of what I call MASC, or metered access to a shared
car: car-rental, ride-sharing, taxi, carsharing, and informal sharing (a
car owner letting family, friends, or neighbours drive it -- or an
employer provide "pooled" cars for business travel). Although only
carsharing charges purely by time and distance, all have the potential,
working together with walking, cycling, and transit, to shift all the
significant fixed costs to variable costs, making all car use appear to
be as expensive as it is -- and to provide trip-by-trip documentation,
reducing car uses that do not relate to "need" rather than getting one's
"money worth". This makes private car ownership appear much less
economical and eventually unnecessary. In time, we might well reduce
the concomitant excessive land demands for roads and parking by making
society's "fleet" no larger than necessary." (Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004
22:07:54 -0700; From: "Chris Bradshaw", Subject: Re: WBCSD report -
Report Contributions)
So for Kathmandu, I would say probably encourage BOTH public transport
AND taxi-like modes. I would think that this could be part of efforts to
reduce the rate of private vehicle ownership increases, by helping to
keep non-ownership a viable option. I don't recall seeing solid research
on this however but I would certainly like to know if there is any.
Paul
Dr Paul A. Barter
Visiting Fellow, LKY School of Public Policy,
National University of Singapore
5 Arts Link, Singapore 117570
Tel: +65-6874 3324; Fax: +65-6778 1020
Email: paulbarter@nus.edu.sg
I am speaking for myself, not for my employers.
From karl at dnet.net.id Tue Aug 24 11:59:23 2004
From: karl at dnet.net.id (Karl Fjellstrom)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 09:59:23 +0700
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <20040824035758.A4E4B2DE2F@mx-list.jca.ne.jp>
One of the downsides is that motorcycle taxis tend to lounge around and park
on walkways, and ride on walkways for at least part of their journey,
honking aggressively to clear away those bothersome pedestrians. Further,
the areas they congregate in tend to be more concentrated areas of
pedestrian activity such as major bus stops, markets, etc. In Bangkok it's
common for them to cordon off areas near a bus stop to the detriment of
waiting bus passengers - e.g. in front of Pata Pinklao. Not to mention the
noise and air pollution they contribute, often in areas with lots of people
which already suffer noise and air pollution (there's been an interesting
debate on noise pollution recently in Bangkok following data released by the
Env Ministry).
Another consideration is that many of the motorcylce taxi trips in Bangkok
are within an easy walking distance - if only there was a navigable,
pleasant walkway. If conditions for short distance trips by walking were
improved, the demand for motorcycle taxis would diminish. Also, where trips
are too long to walk, bicycles could easily substitute for motorcycle taxis
for many trips, if only secure parking areas and other forms of
encouragement were provided for cycling. Such measures need not cost a lot.
But there seems to be little interesting in encouraging alternatives to
motorcycle taxis, and this leads to the point that the motorcycle taxi
industry is also a major contributor to corruption, by most estimates
contributing tens of millions of dollars each year in pay-offs to police and
others. It's great to have these motorcycle taxi services in outlying areas
where otherwise no other service might be available, but the real issue is
their presence in congested urban areas. They can play a valuable role as
Jonathan outlines. However, at least in Bangkok which I'm more familiar
with, encouraging walking and cycling and improved bus routings as an
alternative to motorcycle taxis wherever possible, and strictly prohibiting
motorcycle taxis from parking or driving on walkways, would have many
benefits.
Regards, Karl
-----Original Message-----
From: sustran-discuss-bounces+karl=dnet.net.id@list.jca.apc.org
[mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+karl=dnet.net.id@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf
Of Jonathan E. D. Richmond
Sent: Monday, 23 August 2004 11:18 PM
To: Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
It is a mistake to assume that official public transport will necessarily
result in the consumption of less fuel than motorbike taxis or that it can
replace them in many instances. A bike operating on demand in a suburban
area can be considerably more efficient than buses circulating most of the
day almost empty.
In fact, many motorbike services do operate as public transport -- charging
about the same fare but providing a level of frequency not possible with
buses. For low-income people living in outlying suburbs, there may be no
alternative if density is inufficient for more formal operations -- in fact,
in many cases, the bikes actually operate from bus stops and provide
services to locations not served by buses.
So we have to be careful about making generalizations.
Note that in my case the alternative to taking a motorbike, which I
frequently use to complete a journey after a bus or train ride, would be to
take a regular taxi for the whole journey as it would simply take too long
otherwise.
--jonathan
-----
Jonathan E. D. Richmond 02 524-5510 (office)
Visiting Fellow Intl.: 662 524-5510
Transportation Engineering program
School of Civil Engineering, Room N260B 02 524-8257 (home)
Asian Institute of Technology Intl.: 662 524-8257
PO Box 4
Klong Luang, Pathumthani 12120 02 524-5509 (fax)
Thailand Intl: 662 524-5509
e-mail: richmond@ait.ac.th Secretary: Ms. Nisarat Hansuksa
richmond@alum.mit.edu 02 524-6051
Intl: 662 524-6051
http://the-tech.mit.edu/~richmond/
From ankraut at wlink.com.np Tue Aug 24 13:48:14 2004
From: ankraut at wlink.com.np (Anil K. Raut)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:33:14 +0545
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
References: <20040824035758.A4E4B2DE2F@mx-list.jca.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <06e101c48995$cce971c0$a62b4fca@Anil>
Very interesting debate. There are many points, I need to address on the discussions.
First: Jonathan. You mentioned the positive role of these 'bike-taxis' on the streets of Bangkok. This was what I assumed when I saw them on the streets of Bangkok. I was even trying to ride one. But I was not familiar with the city and these drivers were not good enough on English. So there was a high chance that I could be taken to unwanted area. I gave up the idea.
Another point is: I am not talking about the higher share of these bike-taxis on public transport. There is obviously role for mass-transport. I just wanted to see what could be role of these bike-taxis on a balanced modal-split. I am not pushing this forward but it is good have idea on what is going on around the world and importantly WHY it is happening, what are the driving forces. We could then localise these knowledge and plan our city accordingly.
I agree with Jonathan's point. 'A bike operating on demand in a suburban area can be considerably more efficient than buses circulating most of the day almost empty.' This was also my observation which forced me to think about the possibility of bike-taxis. I am not saying; mass-transport will consume less fuel than bike. I was intended to say what you mentioned. Bike taxi can consume less fuel (and space) than a car-taxi with almost most of time with single occupancy. BUT, there is certain role of mass transit. Bike taxi should not be alternative to the mass-transit rather to their supplement.
Second: Mr. Mehta. I do agree with you in all ways. Yes, the oil price has been going up and this has already creating problem in our country in terms of revenue. We are advocating for alternative energy (which are available within our country- hydropower) and its use in transportation sector. Till now electric vehicles are bit costly than fossil fuel vehicles. But I guess a time will come, when the fossil fuel price will be higher than electric and we could easily promote electric vehicles. This is what the market drive. At this time, we can not just push the entrepreneurs to go for electric vehicles. They will obviously go for low cost options. However, we have already more than 600 electric three-wheelers in Kathmandu. And possibly in future the share of electric transport will be increased (trolley, trams).
But as I said earlier, this was what I intended to look for various options. Our goal is the effective transport management with less emission overall. For that we need to explore both the long and short term possibilities.
Karl: Thanks for adding more point to understand the Bangkok bike-taxis. I know they were being parked within the walkways. But don't you think this is a management problem rather than the particular mode? I would love to know more about the Bangkok taxis from you. If there has been any study on the impact on environment, transport management due to these taxis.
The discussion is being interesting. Any additional thoughts????
Regards,
Anil K. Raut
----------------------------
Anil K. Raut
P. O. Box 8846
Kathmandu, NEPAL
E-mail: ankraut@wlink.com.np; anil@environmentnepal.com.np
Tel: 977-1-4232761 (Res.)/977-9841233941 (Mobile)
----- Original Message -----
From: Karl Fjellstrom
To: 'Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport'
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 8:44 AM
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
One of the downsides is that motorcycle taxis tend to lounge around and park
on walkways, and ride on walkways for at least part of their journey,
honking aggressively to clear away those bothersome pedestrians. Further,
the areas they congregate in tend to be more concentrated areas of
pedestrian activity such as major bus stops, markets, etc. In Bangkok it's
common for them to cordon off areas near a bus stop to the detriment of
waiting bus passengers - e.g. in front of Pata Pinklao. Not to mention the
noise and air pollution they contribute, often in areas with lots of people
which already suffer noise and air pollution (there's been an interesting
debate on noise pollution recently in Bangkok following data released by the
Env Ministry).
Another consideration is that many of the motorcylce taxi trips in Bangkok
are within an easy walking distance - if only there was a navigable,
pleasant walkway. If conditions for short distance trips by walking were
improved, the demand for motorcycle taxis would diminish. Also, where trips
are too long to walk, bicycles could easily substitute for motorcycle taxis
for many trips, if only secure parking areas and other forms of
encouragement were provided for cycling. Such measures need not cost a lot.
But there seems to be little interesting in encouraging alternatives to
motorcycle taxis, and this leads to the point that the motorcycle taxi
industry is also a major contributor to corruption, by most estimates
contributing tens of millions of dollars each year in pay-offs to police and
others. It's great to have these motorcycle taxi services in outlying areas
where otherwise no other service might be available, but the real issue is
their presence in congested urban areas. They can play a valuable role as
Jonathan outlines. However, at least in Bangkok which I'm more familiar
with, encouraging walking and cycling and improved bus routings as an
alternative to motorcycle taxis wherever possible, and strictly prohibiting
motorcycle taxis from parking or driving on walkways, would have many
benefits.
Regards, Karl
-----Original Message-----
From: sustran-discuss-bounces+karl=dnet.net.id@list.jca.apc.org
[mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+karl=dnet.net.id@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf
Of Jonathan E. D. Richmond
Sent: Monday, 23 August 2004 11:18 PM
To: Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
It is a mistake to assume that official public transport will necessarily
result in the consumption of less fuel than motorbike taxis or that it can
replace them in many instances. A bike operating on demand in a suburban
area can be considerably more efficient than buses circulating most of the
day almost empty.
In fact, many motorbike services do operate as public transport -- charging
about the same fare but providing a level of frequency not possible with
buses. For low-income people living in outlying suburbs, there may be no
alternative if density is inufficient for more formal operations -- in fact,
in many cases, the bikes actually operate from bus stops and provide
services to locations not served by buses.
So we have to be careful about making generalizations.
Note that in my case the alternative to taking a motorbike, which I
frequently use to complete a journey after a bus or train ride, would be to
take a regular taxi for the whole journey as it would simply take too long
otherwise.
--jonathan
-----
Jonathan E. D. Richmond 02 524-5510 (office)
Visiting Fellow Intl.: 662 524-5510
Transportation Engineering program
School of Civil Engineering, Room N260B 02 524-8257 (home)
Asian Institute of Technology Intl.: 662 524-8257
PO Box 4
Klong Luang, Pathumthani 12120 02 524-5509 (fax)
Thailand Intl: 662 524-5509
e-mail: richmond@ait.ac.th Secretary: Ms. Nisarat Hansuksa
richmond@alum.mit.edu 02 524-6051
Intl: 662 524-6051
http://the-tech.mit.edu/~richmond/
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From richmond at alum.mit.edu Tue Aug 24 13:59:09 2004
From: richmond at alum.mit.edu (Jonathan E. D. Richmond)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 11:59:09 +0700 (SE Asia Standard Time)
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
In-Reply-To: <20040824035758.A4E4B2DE2F@mx-list.jca.ne.jp>
References: <20040824035758.A4E4B2DE2F@mx-list.jca.ne.jp>
Message-ID:
Walking is not likely to sell in Bangkok. The extreme heat is an enemy,
and walking is also seen as very low status. The heat also makes cycling
unattractive relative to motorized travel.
There is no question that improving bus services in the centre-city would
make a big difference. If clean modern buses operated on their own rights
of way on the major thoroughfares, they would be very attrctive. My
motorbike trip down Silom would have been unncessary if a bus came
cruising by every couple of minutes and travelled without encountering
conditions of congestion. Alas, convincing the Bangkok authorities that
prioritized bus service is needed is no easy matter so, for now, the
motorbike is really the one way to cut through traffic quickly unless you
are lucky enough to be able to take a boat (and, crazy though it may seem,
the main boat service terminates just after 6 pm, even though this is a
period of prime demand for tourists going out to dinner or just interested
in seeing Bangkok at night!)
I don't see any easy alternative to the motorbikes in the suburbs, where
they connect with bus services and help low-income residents avoid lengthy
walks in the harsh sun.
--Jonathan
-----
Jonathan E. D. Richmond 02 524-5510 (office)
Visiting Fellow Intl.: 662 524-5510
Transportation Engineering program
School of Civil Engineering, Room N260B 02 524-8257 (home)
Asian Institute of Technology Intl.: 662 524-8257
PO Box 4
Klong Luang, Pathumthani 12120 02 524-5509 (fax)
Thailand Intl: 662 524-5509
e-mail: richmond@ait.ac.th Secretary: Ms. Nisarat Hansuksa
richmond@alum.mit.edu 02 524-6051
Intl: 662 524-6051
http://the-tech.mit.edu/~richmond/
From ecoplan.adsl at wanadoo.fr Tue Aug 24 20:02:41 2004
From: ecoplan.adsl at wanadoo.fr (ecoplan.adsl@wanadoo.fr)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:02:41 +0200
Subject: [sustran] Revised position on Bogota C/FD letter campaign
Message-ID: <004c01c489c9$e09f13d0$6501a8c0@home>
Tuesday, August 24, 2004, Paris, France, Europe
1. Oops:
Thank you Carlos Filipe for that good note clarifying the Car/Free Day
situation in Bogota, which echoes an email I received late in the day
yesterday from Oscar Edmundo to which I had been meaning to respond to
the group this morning.
2. Revised position on letter campaign as new information became
available:
Yes, it makes a very big difference indeed that the Mayor Luis Eduardo
Garzon has clearly continued the fine tradition of Bogota as a leader in
the Car/Free Day movement by continuing to hold their pattern-breaking
event again in February this year. To me in fact it changes everything,
for reasons that may surprise some of you and that I would now like to
share with the group briefly:
1. The right number of car free (actually ?lot less car?) days in
most years is of course 365. That is in fact the only path to
sustainable mobility and social justice in our cities.
2. But is 2 better than 1? Yes, but only if both are equally
prepared with great diligence, professionalism and with high public
support and solid long term on-street results (which after all is what a
Car/Free Day is all about; it?s not just a photo opportunity for this
mayor or that minister to hop on to a bike once a year.)
3. That said we must understand that getting a Car/Free Day right
is a very challenging, complex and yes expensive business. Sheer good
will and spunkiness are not enough. The transportation systems of our
cities are delicate metabolisms that are vital to the citizens? well
being, and if we do anything to impede their good functioning, we had
best know exactly what we are about. This requires rigorous technical
analysis by the transport and traffic planners, who in many cities
should be able to come up with reasonably solid numbers for the
perturbations and costs incurred. With this in hand, responsible
decisions can then be taken.
4. Several years ago I publicly supported the same (Conservative)
mayor of Stockholm who, after having handed the Stockholm Prize to Mayor
Pe?alosa and myself in June 2000, came out with a public statement in
July 2000 refusing to join the first European Car/Free Day. Mayor
Cederschi?ld explained that his technical advisors had informed him that
getting it right in the relatively short time available was not
possible, that he needed to see a credible analysis of the options
before taking a positive decision, and since this information was
lacking he would not be joining the program. Fair enough.
5. This strikes me as politically mature and responsible. However
it leaves the burden of proof to those of us who think that Car/Free
Days are a good idea. That is as it should be. And the first step in
this process in our cities is in fact three steps: (a) develop a broad
based citizen consortium (that incidentally includes if only informally
a fair number of people working for the city and its agencies), so that
we can then (b) bring the mayor and city administration on board in
principle, and then (c) work closely with the traffic planners, police,
public transport operators, local business and other authorities and
powers that be to get them on our side and the needed basic analysis
done. This gives us our solid base, shows us which parts of the city
can be brought into the Car/Free Day changes, and, no less important if
we get it right, the broad base of public support that is willing to
chip in and make this a consequential event and learning experience.
So, dear friends, it?s my view that this time around we should leave
matters in the hands of the Mayor and his associates, who after all were
voted into office to make just this kind of decisions.
But is that the end of the matter. Not quite.
3. The New Mobility Week in Toronto ? Partnership with Bogota?
I propose that we now invite Mayor Garzon to send a representative to
join the on-going, path-breaking Toronto New Mobility Week 2004 project
(which has a Car/Free Day right in its middle) for the week of 20-24
September, to observe and determine if in 2005 Bogota might wish to
become a senior partner in bringing this approach to Latin America. For
now you can find first information on this project at
http://newmobility.org , click Toronto NMW for
current details. With this in view I am copying this note to the
organizers of the Toronto events, and propose that we will be talking
this over later today to determine how best to handle this.
We will keep you informed.
With all good wishes,
Eric Britton
The New Mobility Agenda at http://newmobility.org
The New Mobility Forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WorldTransport/
The Commons: Open Society Sustainability Initiative
Le Frene, 8/10 rue Joseph Bara, 75006 Paris, France
Tel: +331 4326 1323 Mobile: +336 8096 7879
24 hour Fax/Voicemail hotline: +33 (1) 53 01 28 96
IP Videoconference: 81.65.50.63
Email: postmaster@ecoplan.org
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From caj24 at cornell.edu Tue Aug 24 20:10:34 2004
From: caj24 at cornell.edu (Craig August Johnson)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 07:10:34 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
In-Reply-To:
References: <20040824035758.A4E4B2DE2F@mx-list.jca.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <44931.137.132.3.11.1093345834.squirrel@137.132.3.11>
Hey all, I also think this discussion is quite interesting, partly because
the ability of motorbike taxis to providing a viable yet profitable
service that is not directly subsidized by the government.
Especially in Southeast Asian cities, and increasing in African cities
such as Kampala. The motorbike taxis provides the fastest mode of
transportation for a competive price to places which are hard to service
via other forms of transportation.
In Hanoi, the motorbike taxi scheme increasings the viabilty of the
regulated bus system. The fixed bus routes function as arterial routes
into the central city, while the motorbike taxis function as feeders into
the bus route. The effectiveness of this system can been seen in both the
number of packed buses, as well as the number of motorcycle taxis that
hang out at suburban bus stops.
Unlike the regulated and expensive taxis, the motorbike taxis do not
require extensive infrastructure improvements such as taxi waiting areas,
and as Jonathon noted are not as subject to traffic congestion.
The motorbike taxis are also able to provide door-to-door transportation
service to people who live in highly dense and auto-inaccessible parts of
town.
Thus, Hanoi has been able to provide an efficent, flexible, competitevly
priced, informal transportation network without investing heavily or
relying on foreign investment to widen roads or improve mass transit.
Concerning the discussion that NMT could provide the same service. In
Vietnam, motorbike taxis have effectively replaced the non-motorized
cyclos. Increasingly and ironically, cyclos only provide services to
tourists wanting to get the "authentic Vietnamese experience." In fact one
of the most luxurious hotels in Hanoi, the Sofitel Metropole employs a
fleet of cyclos especially for the rich tourist who stay at the hotel.
Like Paul, I have not seen any research concerning motorbike
transportation, and would like to know if there has been any studies done.
Craig Johnson
From kviethung at gmx.de Tue Aug 24 22:03:42 2004
From: kviethung at gmx.de (Viet Hung Khuat)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 15:03:42 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
References: <44931.137.132.3.11.1093345834.squirrel@137.132.3.11>
Message-ID: <8519.1093352622@www15.gmx.net>
Hey all,
I am doing now my research regarding the strategic transportation system
management (demand management) for "motorcycle dependent city" like Hanoi
and many other cities in Vietnam. I hope that the finding of my research
will be a reference for some ones who try to have a high-density-mobility
transportation system with low cost and emissions. If you consider to a 100
km2 city, with 3 millions people, can live and have motorized daily traffic.
In my opinions, if we provide good management service for motorcycle flow,
some parking areas, small P+R facilities, and some two-wheels (NMV is alo
two wheels) only area, the city can archieve a sustainable situation with
very low cost. There is big problem that is the VNese goverment now is
starting to fire the Motorcyclist. This goverment is doing the same thing
with Beijing Goverment that is trying to fire the bicycles.
Regarding the MC taxi in Hanoi.
It is nice to see your positive evaluation about the Motorcycle taxi (MC
Taxi). I am agree to you that the MC taxi in Vietnam is the most effective
paratransit mode by: speed, space consumption, gasoline consumption,
mobility, ...
For the aspect of feeding bus service, if you have time to look at the major
bus station such as in front of Daewoo Hotel, Dien Bien Phu, or along the
road to Noi Bai Airport you can see many of MC taxis are waiting for bus
passengers to transfer them to their trip destinations.
>From this October, there is one Germany student (at TU Darmstadt) will start
his Diplome Thesis with the topic of "intermodal transport in Hanoi" that
will focuse in encourging the MC taxi - bus connection in order to find
win-win solution for both.
There is just a small problems, most of MC taxi drivers in Hanoi are free,
they are not registered in any union or league, thus no one protect their
benefit at all.
See all again,
Khuat Viet Hung
> Hey all, I also think this discussion is quite interesting, partly because
> the ability of motorbike taxis to providing a viable yet profitable
> service that is not directly subsidized by the government.
>
> Especially in Southeast Asian cities, and increasing in African cities
> such as Kampala. The motorbike taxis provides the fastest mode of
> transportation for a competive price to places which are hard to service
> via other forms of transportation.
>
> In Hanoi, the motorbike taxi scheme increasings the viabilty of the
> regulated bus system. The fixed bus routes function as arterial routes
> into the central city, while the motorbike taxis function as feeders into
> the bus route. The effectiveness of this system can been seen in both the
> number of packed buses, as well as the number of motorcycle taxis that
> hang out at suburban bus stops.
>
> Unlike the regulated and expensive taxis, the motorbike taxis do not
> require extensive infrastructure improvements such as taxi waiting areas,
> and as Jonathon noted are not as subject to traffic congestion.
>
> The motorbike taxis are also able to provide door-to-door transportation
> service to people who live in highly dense and auto-inaccessible parts of
> town.
> Thus, Hanoi has been able to provide an efficent, flexible, competitevly
> priced, informal transportation network without investing heavily or
> relying on foreign investment to widen roads or improve mass transit.
>
>
> Concerning the discussion that NMT could provide the same service. In
> Vietnam, motorbike taxis have effectively replaced the non-motorized
> cyclos. Increasingly and ironically, cyclos only provide services to
> tourists wanting to get the "authentic Vietnamese experience." In fact one
> of the most luxurious hotels in Hanoi, the Sofitel Metropole employs a
> fleet of cyclos especially for the rich tourist who stay at the hotel.
>
> Like Paul, I have not seen any research concerning motorbike
> transportation, and would like to know if there has been any studies done.
>
> Craig Johnson
>
>
>
>
>
--
****************************************
Khuat Viet Hung, M.Eng
(C/o: Prof. Manfred Boltze)
Institut fuer Verkehr, TU Darmstadt
Petersenstrasse 30, 64287 Darmstadt, Deutschland
Tel. : + 49-6151-16 2026
Fax: + 49-6151-16 2045
NEU: Bis zu 10 GB Speicher für e-mails & Dateien!
1 GB bereits bei GMX FreeMail http://www.gmx.net/de/go/mail
From kviethung at gmx.de Tue Aug 24 22:12:48 2004
From: kviethung at gmx.de (Viet Hung Khuat)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 15:12:48 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
References: <20040824035758.A4E4B2DE2F@mx-list.jca.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <13688.1093353168@www15.gmx.net>
Hallo,
I am fully agree with Karl about the issue of walkway occupancy by MC Taxi.
But I have here discussions as follows:
1. There is no consideration of government and experts about the intermodal
facilities between MC taxi and Public transport.
2. No concern about where should be the park or waiting place for MC taxi
while most of the activities centers have taxi waiting area.
3. Regarding the trip length: we should consider the weather conditions in
Bangkok or Hanoi, it is different from most of European countries. So, the
ASEAN people may do not want to walk on this condition.
4. If we have no MC taxi, It would be worse if 10% the passengers will use
the PC, 40% will use the PC-taxi, even the rest 50% will use the NMV for
their paratransit trip.
Sincerely,
HUNG
> One of the downsides is that motorcycle taxis tend to lounge around and
> park
> on walkways, and ride on walkways for at least part of their journey,
> honking aggressively to clear away those bothersome pedestrians. Further,
> the areas they congregate in tend to be more concentrated areas of
> pedestrian activity such as major bus stops, markets, etc. In Bangkok it's
> common for them to cordon off areas near a bus stop to the detriment of
> waiting bus passengers - e.g. in front of Pata Pinklao. Not to mention the
> noise and air pollution they contribute, often in areas with lots of
> people
> which already suffer noise and air pollution (there's been an interesting
> debate on noise pollution recently in Bangkok following data released by
> the
> Env Ministry).
>
> Another consideration is that many of the motorcylce taxi trips in Bangkok
> are within an easy walking distance - if only there was a navigable,
> pleasant walkway. If conditions for short distance trips by walking were
> improved, the demand for motorcycle taxis would diminish. Also, where
> trips
> are too long to walk, bicycles could easily substitute for motorcycle
> taxis
> for many trips, if only secure parking areas and other forms of
> encouragement were provided for cycling. Such measures need not cost a
> lot.
>
> But there seems to be little interesting in encouraging alternatives to
> motorcycle taxis, and this leads to the point that the motorcycle taxi
> industry is also a major contributor to corruption, by most estimates
> contributing tens of millions of dollars each year in pay-offs to police
> and
> others. It's great to have these motorcycle taxi services in outlying
> areas
> where otherwise no other service might be available, but the real issue is
> their presence in congested urban areas. They can play a valuable role as
> Jonathan outlines. However, at least in Bangkok which I'm more familiar
> with, encouraging walking and cycling and improved bus routings as an
> alternative to motorcycle taxis wherever possible, and strictly
> prohibiting
> motorcycle taxis from parking or driving on walkways, would have many
> benefits.
>
> Regards, Karl
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+karl=dnet.net.id@list.jca.apc.org
> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+karl=dnet.net.id@list.jca.apc.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Jonathan E. D. Richmond
> Sent: Monday, 23 August 2004 11:18 PM
> To: Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport
> Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
>
>
> It is a mistake to assume that official public transport will necessarily
> result in the consumption of less fuel than motorbike taxis or that it can
> replace them in many instances. A bike operating on demand in a suburban
> area can be considerably more efficient than buses circulating most of the
> day almost empty.
>
> In fact, many motorbike services do operate as public transport --
> charging
> about the same fare but providing a level of frequency not possible with
> buses. For low-income people living in outlying suburbs, there may be no
> alternative if density is inufficient for more formal operations -- in
> fact,
> in many cases, the bikes actually operate from bus stops and provide
> services to locations not served by buses.
>
> So we have to be careful about making generalizations.
>
> Note that in my case the alternative to taking a motorbike, which I
> frequently use to complete a journey after a bus or train ride, would be
> to
> take a regular taxi for the whole journey as it would simply take too long
> otherwise.
>
> --jonathan
>
> -----
>
> Jonathan E. D. Richmond 02 524-5510 (office)
> Visiting Fellow Intl.: 662 524-5510
> Transportation Engineering program
> School of Civil Engineering, Room N260B 02 524-8257 (home)
> Asian Institute of Technology Intl.: 662 524-8257
> PO Box 4
> Klong Luang, Pathumthani 12120 02 524-5509 (fax)
> Thailand Intl: 662 524-5509
>
> e-mail: richmond@ait.ac.th Secretary: Ms. Nisarat Hansuksa
> richmond@alum.mit.edu 02 524-6051
> Intl: 662 524-6051
> http://the-tech.mit.edu/~richmond/
>
>
>
--
****************************************
Khuat Viet Hung, M.Eng
(C/o: Prof. Manfred Boltze)
Institut fuer Verkehr, TU Darmstadt
Petersenstrasse 30, 64287 Darmstadt, Deutschland
Tel. : + 49-6151-16 2026
Fax: + 49-6151-16 2045
NEU: Bis zu 10 GB Speicher für e-mails & Dateien!
1 GB bereits bei GMX FreeMail http://www.gmx.net/de/go/mail
From richmond at alum.mit.edu Tue Aug 24 22:17:41 2004
From: richmond at alum.mit.edu (Jonathan E. D. Richmond)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 20:17:41 +0700 (SE Asia Standard Time)
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
In-Reply-To: <8519.1093352622@www15.gmx.net>
References: <44931.137.132.3.11.1093345834.squirrel@137.132.3.11>
<8519.1093352622@www15.gmx.net>
Message-ID:
One thing which is needed is some sort of regulation over safety. The
motorbike drivers in Vietnam are even wilder than in Bangkok (and in
Bangkok, helmets must be provided for passengers, while there seems to be
no such requirement in Vietnam). Many of the bikes in Vietnam are in
terrible shape and the driving is insane (quite apart from the fact that
the drivers will do things like literally drive you across a mine field,
merrily pointing out the scattered munitions along the way...).
I had one driver take me up a mountain behind Da Nang. About two thirds
of the way up, we stopped. The bike could go no further with two bodies
on board. I got off and inspected the tires, which were absolutely bald,
and flagged down a bus...
There is also a crime issue. While nothing of the sort happened in
Vietnam, I came close to getting mugged in Phnom Penh while riding a
motorbike back to my hotel at night. The driver went away from the hotel
district into a dark area and slowed down as we headed towards some
sinister-looking guys hanging around in the street (I jumped off, ran like
crazy, and jumped on another bike down the road). You are definitely
vulnerable when traveling this way, compared to taking an ordinary taxi.
--Jonathan
-----
Jonathan E. D. Richmond 02 524-5510 (office)
Visiting Fellow Intl.: 662 524-5510
Transportation Engineering program
School of Civil Engineering, Room N260B 02 524-8257 (home)
Asian Institute of Technology Intl.: 662 524-8257
PO Box 4
Klong Luang, Pathumthani 12120 02 524-5509 (fax)
Thailand Intl: 662 524-5509
e-mail: richmond@ait.ac.th Secretary: Ms. Nisarat Hansuksa
richmond@alum.mit.edu 02 524-6051
Intl: 662 524-6051
http://the-tech.mit.edu/~richmond/
From papon at inrets.fr Tue Aug 24 22:55:59 2004
From: papon at inrets.fr (Francis Papon)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 15:55:59 +0200
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
In-Reply-To:
References: <44931.137.132.3.11.1093345834.squirrel@137.132.3.11>
<8519.1093352622@www15.gmx.net>
Message-ID:
About motorbike taxis, you can also download the journalist report
winning contest award by IVM (City on the Move) at
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/ville-en-mouvement/concours_etudiant/concours3/kitpresstelechargement/english_low.pdf
and look at more details about the contest at
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/ville-en-mouvement/concours_etudiant/concours3/uk/indexuk.htm
The winning report deals with the subject "providing additional
service to public transport in certain cities, motorbike taxis as job
generators" in Franca, Sao Paulo state, Brazil, by Caio Cavechini,
Francisco de Souza, Ivan Paganotti, Universidad de S?o Paulo.
--
Francis Papon, mailto:francis.papon@inrets.fr tel +33147407270
Ingenieur en Chef des Ponts et Chaussees, chercheur @ INRETS/DEST/EEM,
2, av. du General Malleret-Joinville, F-94114 Arcueil France
http://www.inrets.fr/
From roelof.wittink at cycling.nl Tue Aug 24 23:12:02 2004
From: roelof.wittink at cycling.nl (roelof.wittink@cycling.nl)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 16:12:02 +0200
Subject: [sustran] Re: social marketing projects
In-Reply-To: <003601c4849d$cb72d950$6e01a8c0@Lisa>
Message-ID: <412B68D2.28589.2476F6@localhost>
In the nineties the OECD published a report on the Social Marketing of
Road Safety. I was one of the participants of the OECD expert group for
this. The report also gives some hands-on advice, but since social
marketing was new for road safety it does not contain good social
marketing projects on road safety.
roelof wittink
On 17 Aug 2004 at 17:04, Lisa Peterson wrote:
>
> Dear all,
>
> I?m looking for examples of innovative marketing/social marketing
> projects in the transport sector. How are communities, NGOs,
> governments or others working to change how people think about
> transport? To change travel behavior? I?m most interested in specific
> projects that any of you may know of. Thanks for any ideas.
>
> Best,
> Lisa
>
>
> Lisa Peterson
>
> Communications Director
> Institute for Transportation and Development Policy
>
> Subscribe to Sustainable Transport: www.itdp.org
>
> 115 West 30th Street, Suite 1205
> New York, NY 10001
> Ph: 212-629-8001
> Fax: 212-629-8033
> e-mail: lpeterson@itdp.org
>
>
*******************************************************
Roelof Wittink, Director
I-ce = Interface for Cycling Expertise
Trans 3, 3512 JJ Utrecht, The Netherlands
tel: +31 (0)30 2304521 fax: +31 (0)30 2312384
email (general): i-ce@cycling.nl
email (personal): roelof.wittink@cycling.nl
website: www.i-ce.info
*******************************************************
From kviethung at gmx.de Tue Aug 24 23:33:03 2004
From: kviethung at gmx.de (Viet Hung Khuat)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 16:33:03 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
References:
Message-ID: <6070.1093357983@www34.gmx.net>
Hallo John,
If you read the newspaper you will find out that Vietnamese government has
several time impose the Helmet Obligation (HO). However, that didn't work
well due to so many violences while limited number of polices.
So, recently, two City, HN and HCM City have been reapplied the HO with very
strong enforcement. I hope that It will work in some aspects.
You are right to mention about the quality of MC taxi in such country like
Vietnam. I think you may think broader to the manufacturing and maintaining
problems. However, the cases as yours in Phnompenh can be happened every
where, and it seem more dagnerous if you can not simple jump out from an
ordinary taxi.
So, I understood your feelings, and I am feelings now who are you and where
is your point of view. Please see one more the literature of Todd Liman,
mobility management, in which he mentioned that most of decision makers in
developing countries are rich and they love to have automobile favor
solution.
I would like to add here my discussion that: some foreign consultants are
also rich and come from the automobile society, they must have the
automobile living style and car oriented thinking-format, even they alway
try to prove that automobile is bad solution for developing countries. So,
my discussion may not right in all cases, but at least for Bangkok with its
wonderfull urban elevated highway system. What is it for?
HUNG
>
> One thing which is needed is some sort of regulation over safety. The
> motorbike drivers in Vietnam are even wilder than in Bangkok (and in
> Bangkok, helmets must be provided for passengers, while there seems to be
> no such requirement in Vietnam). Many of the bikes in Vietnam are in
> terrible shape and the driving is insane (quite apart from the fact that
> the drivers will do things like literally drive you across a mine field,
> merrily pointing out the scattered munitions along the way...).
>
> I had one driver take me up a mountain behind Da Nang. About two thirds
> of the way up, we stopped. The bike could go no further with two bodies
> on board. I got off and inspected the tires, which were absolutely bald,
> and flagged down a bus...
>
> There is also a crime issue. While nothing of the sort happened in
> Vietnam, I came close to getting mugged in Phnom Penh while riding a
> motorbike back to my hotel at night. The driver went away from the hotel
> district into a dark area and slowed down as we headed towards some
> sinister-looking guys hanging around in the street (I jumped off, ran like
> crazy, and jumped on another bike down the road). You are definitely
> vulnerable when traveling this way, compared to taking an ordinary taxi.
>
> --Jonathan
>
> -----
>
> Jonathan E. D. Richmond 02 524-5510 (office)
> Visiting Fellow Intl.: 662 524-5510
> Transportation Engineering program
> School of Civil Engineering, Room N260B 02 524-8257 (home)
> Asian Institute of Technology Intl.: 662 524-8257
> PO Box 4
> Klong Luang, Pathumthani 12120 02 524-5509 (fax)
> Thailand Intl: 662 524-5509
>
> e-mail: richmond@ait.ac.th Secretary: Ms. Nisarat Hansuksa
> richmond@alum.mit.edu 02 524-6051
> Intl: 662 524-6051
> http://the-tech.mit.edu/~richmond/
>
--
****************************************
Khuat Viet Hung, M.Eng
(C/o: Prof. Manfred Boltze)
Institut fuer Verkehr, TU Darmstadt
Petersenstrasse 30, 64287 Darmstadt, Deutschland
Tel. : + 49-6151-16 2026
Fax: + 49-6151-16 2045
Supergünstige DSL-Tarife + WLAN-Router für 0,- EUR*
Jetzt zu GMX wechseln und sparen http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl
From pardinus at yahoo.com Tue Aug 24 23:42:31 2004
From: pardinus at yahoo.com (Carlos Felipe Pardo V.)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 07:42:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sustran] Re: Revised position on Bogota C/FD letter campaign
In-Reply-To: <004c01c489c9$e09f13d0$6501a8c0@home>
Message-ID: <20040824144231.58626.qmail@web20326.mail.yahoo.com>
ecoplan.adsl@wanadoo.fr wrote:
Tuesday, August 24, 2004, Paris, France, Europe
1. Oops:
Thank you Carlos Filipe for that good note clarifying the Car/Free Day situation in Bogota, which echoes an email I received late in the day yesterday from Oscar Edmundo to which I had been meaning to respond to the group this morning.
2. Revised position on letter campaign as new information became available:
Yes, it makes a very big difference indeed that the Mayor Luis Eduardo Garzon has clearly continued the fine tradition of Bogota as a leader in the Car/Free Day movement by continuing to hold their pattern-breaking event again in February this year. To me in fact it changes everything, for reasons that may surprise some of you and that I would now like to share with the group briefly:
The right number of car free (actually “lot less car”) days in most years is of course 365. That is in fact the only path to sustainable mobility and social justice in our cities.
But is 2 better than 1? Yes, but only if both are equally prepared with great diligence, professionalism and with high public support and solid long term on-street results (which after all is what a Car/Free Day is all about; it’s not just a photo opportunity for this mayor or that minister to hop on to a bike once a year.)
That said we must understand that getting a Car/Free Day right is a very challenging, complex and yes expensive business. Sheer good will and spunkiness are not enough. The transportation systems of our cities are delicate metabolisms that are vital to the citizens’ well being, and if we do anything to impede their good functioning, we had best know exactly what we are about. This requires rigorous technical analysis by the transport and traffic planners, who in many cities should be able to come up with reasonably solid numbers for the perturbations and costs incurred. With this in hand, responsible decisions can then be taken.
Several years ago I publicly supported the same (Conservative) mayor of Stockholm who, after having handed the Stockholm Prize to Mayor Peñalosa and myself in June 2000, came out with a public statement in July 2000 refusing to join the first European Car/Free Day. Mayor Cederschiöld explained that his technical advisors had informed him that getting it right in the relatively short time available was not possible, that he needed to see a credible analysis of the options before taking a positive decision, and since this information was lacking he would not be joining the program. Fair enough.
This strikes me as politically mature and responsible. However it leaves the burden of proof to those of us who think that Car/Free Days are a good idea. That is as it should be. And the first step in this process in our cities is in fact three steps: (a) develop a broad based citizen consortium (that incidentally includes if only informally a fair number of people working for the city and its agencies), so that we can then (b) bring the mayor and city administration on board in principle, and then (c) work closely with the traffic planners, police, public transport operators, local business and other authorities and powers that be to get them on our side and the needed basic analysis done. This gives us our solid base, shows us which parts of the city can be brought into the Car/Free Day changes, and, no less important if we get it right, the broad base of public support that is willing to chip in and make this a consequential event and learning experience.
So, dear friends, it’s my view that this time around we should leave matters in the hands of the Mayor and his associates, who after all were voted into office to make just this kind of decisions.
But is that the end of the matter. Not quite.
3. The New Mobility Week in Toronto – Partnership with Bogota?
I propose that we now invite Mayor Garzon to send a representative to join the on-going, path-breaking Toronto New Mobility Week 2004 project (which has a Car/Free Day right in its middle) for the week of 20-24 September, to observe and determine if in 2005 Bogota might wish to become a senior partner in bringing this approach to Latin America. For now you can find first information on this project at http://newmobility.org, click Toronto NMW for current details. With this in view I am copying this note to the organizers of the Toronto events, and propose that we will be talking this over later today to determine how best to handle this.
We will keep you informed.
With all good wishes,
Eric Britton
The New Mobility Agenda at http://newmobility.org
The New Mobility Forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WorldTransport/
The Commons: Open Society Sustainability Initiative
Le Frene, 8/10 rue Joseph Bara, 75006 Paris, France
Tel: +331 4326 1323 Mobile: +336 8096 7879
24 hour Fax/Voicemail hotline: +33 (1) 53 01 28 96
IP Videoconference: 81.65.50.63
Email: postmaster@ecoplan.org
Carlos F. Pardo V.
Pardinus Research
pardinus@yahoo.com
---------------------------------
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From richmond at alum.mit.edu Tue Aug 24 23:45:14 2004
From: richmond at alum.mit.edu (Jonathan E. D. Richmond)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 21:45:14 +0700 (SE Asia Standard Time)
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
In-Reply-To: <6070.1093357983@www34.gmx.net>
References:
<6070.1093357983@www34.gmx.net>
Message-ID:
Hung, I agree with you entirely that the poor are ignored when it comes to
self-righteous pronouncements on the transport they use. The car is
allowed to dominate, and little done to facilitate the efficient
and safe operation of services such as private vans and motorbike taxis
which have much to offer. I have been trying to impress these points on my
students here at AIT, and I personally use local transport just as much as
possible, even though I was advised by one of my Thai students not to let
on that I arrive at appointments with government officials by bus: "you
will be regarded as completely low," she said, her lip pursed with
contempt!
--Jonathan
-----
Jonathan E. D. Richmond 02 524-5510 (office)
Visiting Fellow Intl.: 662 524-5510
Transportation Engineering program
School of Civil Engineering, Room N260B 02 524-8257 (home)
Asian Institute of Technology Intl.: 662 524-8257
PO Box 4
Klong Luang, Pathumthani 12120 02 524-5509 (fax)
Thailand Intl: 662 524-5509
e-mail: richmond@ait.ac.th Secretary: Ms. Nisarat Hansuksa
richmond@alum.mit.edu 02 524-6051
Intl: 662 524-6051
http://the-tech.mit.edu/~richmond/
From pardinus at yahoo.com Tue Aug 24 23:45:54 2004
From: pardinus at yahoo.com (Carlos Felipe Pardo V.)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 07:45:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sustran] Re: Revised position on Bogota C/FD letter campaign
In-Reply-To: <004c01c489c9$e09f13d0$6501a8c0@home>
Message-ID: <20040824144554.92012.qmail@web20325.mail.yahoo.com>
I agree with Eric about inviting our Mayor (or a representative) to Toronto. This could be better, since organizing a CFD for this year is quite difficult (normally, organizing meetings for this take weeks, and we're only four or five weeks away from spt 20).
Let's hope that these actions are the best to achieve sustainable transport. Who is sending the letter?
ecoplan.adsl@wanadoo.fr wrote:
Tuesday, August 24, 2004, Paris, France, Europe
1. Oops:
Thank you Carlos Filipe for that good note clarifying the Car/Free Day situation in Bogota, which echoes an email I received late in the day yesterday from Oscar Edmundo to which I had been meaning to respond to the group this morning.
2. Revised position on letter campaign as new information became available:
Yes, it makes a very big difference indeed that the Mayor Luis Eduardo Garzon has clearly continued the fine tradition of Bogota as a leader in the Car/Free Day movement by continuing to hold their pattern-breaking event again in February this year. To me in fact it changes everything, for reasons that may surprise some of you and that I would now like to share with the group briefly:
The right number of car free (actually “lot less car”) days in most years is of course 365. That is in fact the only path to sustainable mobility and social justice in our cities.
But is 2 better than 1? Yes, but only if both are equally prepared with great diligence, professionalism and with high public support and solid long term on-street results (which after all is what a Car/Free Day is all about; it’s not just a photo opportunity for this mayor or that minister to hop on to a bike once a year.)
That said we must understand that getting a Car/Free Day right is a very challenging, complex and yes expensive business. Sheer good will and spunkiness are not enough. The transportation systems of our cities are delicate metabolisms that are vital to the citizens’ well being, and if we do anything to impede their good functioning, we had best know exactly what we are about. This requires rigorous technical analysis by the transport and traffic planners, who in many cities should be able to come up with reasonably solid numbers for the perturbations and costs incurred. With this in hand, responsible decisions can then be taken.
Several years ago I publicly supported the same (Conservative) mayor of Stockholm who, after having handed the Stockholm Prize to Mayor Peñalosa and myself in June 2000, came out with a public statement in July 2000 refusing to join the first European Car/Free Day. Mayor Cederschiöld explained that his technical advisors had informed him that getting it right in the relatively short time available was not possible, that he needed to see a credible analysis of the options before taking a positive decision, and since this information was lacking he would not be joining the program. Fair enough.
This strikes me as politically mature and responsible. However it leaves the burden of proof to those of us who think that Car/Free Days are a good idea. That is as it should be. And the first step in this process in our cities is in fact three steps: (a) develop a broad based citizen consortium (that incidentally includes if only informally a fair number of people working for the city and its agencies), so that we can then (b) bring the mayor and city administration on board in principle, and then (c) work closely with the traffic planners, police, public transport operators, local business and other authorities and powers that be to get them on our side and the needed basic analysis done. This gives us our solid base, shows us which parts of the city can be brought into the Car/Free Day changes, and, no less important if we get it right, the broad base of public support that is willing to chip in and make this a consequential event and learning experience.
So, dear friends, it’s my view that this time around we should leave matters in the hands of the Mayor and his associates, who after all were voted into office to make just this kind of decisions.
But is that the end of the matter. Not quite.
3. The New Mobility Week in Toronto – Partnership with Bogota?
I propose that we now invite Mayor Garzon to send a representative to join the on-going, path-breaking Toronto New Mobility Week 2004 project (which has a Car/Free Day right in its middle) for the week of 20-24 September, to observe and determine if in 2005 Bogota might wish to become a senior partner in bringing this approach to Latin America. For now you can find first information on this project at http://newmobility.org, click Toronto NMW for current details. With this in view I am copying this note to the organizers of the Toronto events, and propose that we will be talking this over later today to determine how best to handle this.
We will keep you informed.
With all good wishes,
Eric Britton
The New Mobility Agenda at http://newmobility.org
The New Mobility Forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WorldTransport/
The Commons: Open Society Sustainability Initiative
Le Frene, 8/10 rue Joseph Bara, 75006 Paris, France
Tel: +331 4326 1323 Mobile: +336 8096 7879
24 hour Fax/Voicemail hotline: +33 (1) 53 01 28 96
IP Videoconference: 81.65.50.63
Email: postmaster@ecoplan.org
Carlos F. Pardo V.
Pardinus Research
pardinus@yahoo.com
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
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From kviethung at gmx.de Wed Aug 25 00:12:02 2004
From: kviethung at gmx.de (Viet Hung Khuat)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 17:12:02 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
References:
Message-ID: <5813.1093360322@www11.gmx.net>
Dear Achan John,
If you talk with Prof. Yordphol he may remeber me as his advisee during
1998-2000 at AIT Transportation Engineering Program. I am very happy to
learn that AIT's TE can have a high quality professor like you are.
I hope we can meet in Hanoi if you are interesting to attend the ISSOT 2004
there. Thus, I am waiting for this chance to learn more from your knowledge.
Yours sincerely,
Your coming student,
Khuat Viet Hung
>
> Hung, I agree with you entirely that the poor are ignored when it comes to
> self-righteous pronouncements on the transport they use. The car is
> allowed to dominate, and little done to facilitate the efficient
> and safe operation of services such as private vans and motorbike taxis
> which have much to offer. I have been trying to impress these points on my
> students here at AIT, and I personally use local transport just as much as
> possible, even though I was advised by one of my Thai students not to let
> on that I arrive at appointments with government officials by bus: "you
> will be regarded as completely low," she said, her lip pursed with
> contempt!
>
> --Jonathan
>
> -----
>
> Jonathan E. D. Richmond 02 524-5510 (office)
> Visiting Fellow Intl.: 662 524-5510
> Transportation Engineering program
> School of Civil Engineering, Room N260B 02 524-8257 (home)
> Asian Institute of Technology Intl.: 662 524-8257
> PO Box 4
> Klong Luang, Pathumthani 12120 02 524-5509 (fax)
> Thailand Intl: 662 524-5509
>
> e-mail: richmond@ait.ac.th Secretary: Ms. Nisarat Hansuksa
> richmond@alum.mit.edu 02 524-6051
> Intl: 662 524-6051
> http://the-tech.mit.edu/~richmond/
>
--
****************************************
Khuat Viet Hung, M.Eng
(C/o: Prof. Manfred Boltze)
Institut fuer Verkehr, TU Darmstadt
Petersenstrasse 30, 64287 Darmstadt, Deutschland
Tel. : + 49-6151-16 2026
Fax: + 49-6151-16 2045
NEU: Bis zu 10 GB Speicher für e-mails & Dateien!
1 GB bereits bei GMX FreeMail http://www.gmx.net/de/go/mail
From kviethung at gmx.de Wed Aug 25 00:22:04 2004
From: kviethung at gmx.de (Viet Hung Khuat)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 17:22:04 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
References: <06e101c48995$cce971c0$a62b4fca@Anil>
Message-ID: <13232.1093360924@www11.gmx.net>
Hallo Anil,
It is nice to see yuor dicussion. However, we should consider some points as
follows:
1. The MC Taxis in BKK are mainly serving the Thai who really have lower
income than any foregn tourists but high quaily in Thai language.
2. In between 20-50 years the city like Hanoi, New Dehli or som other cities
have no money to provide enough Mass Transit Serivice.
What are the alternatives? and What is the cheapeast one?
Have a nice day,
HUNG
> Very interesting debate. There are many points, I need to address on the
> discussions.
>
> First: Jonathan. You mentioned the positive role of these 'bike-taxis' on
> the streets of Bangkok. This was what I assumed when I saw them on the
> streets of Bangkok. I was even trying to ride one. But I was not familiar
with
> the city and these drivers were not good enough on English. So there was a
> high chance that I could be taken to unwanted area. I gave up the idea.
>
> Another point is: I am not talking about the higher share of these
> bike-taxis on public transport. There is obviously role for
mass-transport. I just
> wanted to see what could be role of these bike-taxis on a balanced
> modal-split. I am not pushing this forward but it is good have idea on
what is
> going on around the world and importantly WHY it is happening, what are
the
> driving forces. We could then localise these knowledge and plan our city
> accordingly.
>
> I agree with Jonathan's point. 'A bike operating on demand in a suburban
> area can be considerably more efficient than buses circulating most of the
> day almost empty.' This was also my observation which forced me to think
> about the possibility of bike-taxis. I am not saying; mass-transport will
> consume less fuel than bike. I was intended to say what you mentioned.
Bike
> taxi can consume less fuel (and space) than a car-taxi with almost most of
> time with single occupancy. BUT, there is certain role of mass transit.
Bike
> taxi should not be alternative to the mass-transit rather to their
> supplement.
>
> Second: Mr. Mehta. I do agree with you in all ways. Yes, the oil price has
> been going up and this has already creating problem in our country in
> terms of revenue. We are advocating for alternative energy (which are
available
> within our country- hydropower) and its use in transportation sector. Till
> now electric vehicles are bit costly than fossil fuel vehicles. But I
> guess a time will come, when the fossil fuel price will be higher than
electric
> and we could easily promote electric vehicles. This is what the market
> drive. At this time, we can not just push the entrepreneurs to go for
electric
> vehicles. They will obviously go for low cost options. However, we have
> already more than 600 electric three-wheelers in Kathmandu. And possibly
in
> future the share of electric transport will be increased (trolley, trams).
>
> But as I said earlier, this was what I intended to look for various
> options. Our goal is the effective transport management with less emission
> overall. For that we need to explore both the long and short term
possibilities.
>
> Karl: Thanks for adding more point to understand the Bangkok bike-taxis. I
> know they were being parked within the walkways. But don't you think this
> is a management problem rather than the particular mode? I would love to
> know more about the Bangkok taxis from you. If there has been any study on
> the impact on environment, transport management due to these taxis.
>
> The discussion is being interesting. Any additional thoughts????
>
> Regards,
>
> Anil K. Raut
> ----------------------------
> Anil K. Raut
> P. O. Box 8846
> Kathmandu, NEPAL
> E-mail: ankraut@wlink.com.np; anil@environmentnepal.com.np
> Tel: 977-1-4232761 (Res.)/977-9841233941 (Mobile)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Karl Fjellstrom
> To: 'Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport'
> Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 8:44 AM
> Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
>
>
> One of the downsides is that motorcycle taxis tend to lounge around and
> park
> on walkways, and ride on walkways for at least part of their journey,
> honking aggressively to clear away those bothersome pedestrians.
> Further,
> the areas they congregate in tend to be more concentrated areas of
> pedestrian activity such as major bus stops, markets, etc. In Bangkok
> it's
> common for them to cordon off areas near a bus stop to the detriment of
> waiting bus passengers - e.g. in front of Pata Pinklao. Not to mention
> the
> noise and air pollution they contribute, often in areas with lots of
> people
> which already suffer noise and air pollution (there's been an
> interesting
> debate on noise pollution recently in Bangkok following data released by
> the
> Env Ministry).
>
> Another consideration is that many of the motorcylce taxi trips in
> Bangkok
> are within an easy walking distance - if only there was a navigable,
> pleasant walkway. If conditions for short distance trips by walking were
> improved, the demand for motorcycle taxis would diminish. Also, where
> trips
> are too long to walk, bicycles could easily substitute for motorcycle
> taxis
> for many trips, if only secure parking areas and other forms of
> encouragement were provided for cycling. Such measures need not cost a
> lot.
>
> But there seems to be little interesting in encouraging alternatives to
> motorcycle taxis, and this leads to the point that the motorcycle taxi
> industry is also a major contributor to corruption, by most estimates
> contributing tens of millions of dollars each year in pay-offs to police
> and
> others. It's great to have these motorcycle taxi services in outlying
> areas
> where otherwise no other service might be available, but the real issue
> is
> their presence in congested urban areas. They can play a valuable role
> as
> Jonathan outlines. However, at least in Bangkok which I'm more familiar
> with, encouraging walking and cycling and improved bus routings as an
> alternative to motorcycle taxis wherever possible, and strictly
> prohibiting
> motorcycle taxis from parking or driving on walkways, would have many
> benefits.
>
> Regards, Karl
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+karl=dnet.net.id@list.jca.apc.org
> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+karl=dnet.net.id@list.jca.apc.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Jonathan E. D. Richmond
> Sent: Monday, 23 August 2004 11:18 PM
> To: Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport
> Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
>
>
> It is a mistake to assume that official public transport will
> necessarily
> result in the consumption of less fuel than motorbike taxis or that it
> can
> replace them in many instances. A bike operating on demand in a suburban
> area can be considerably more efficient than buses circulating most of
> the
> day almost empty.
>
> In fact, many motorbike services do operate as public transport --
> charging
> about the same fare but providing a level of frequency not possible with
> buses. For low-income people living in outlying suburbs, there may be no
> alternative if density is inufficient for more formal operations -- in
> fact,
> in many cases, the bikes actually operate from bus stops and provide
> services to locations not served by buses.
>
> So we have to be careful about making generalizations.
>
> Note that in my case the alternative to taking a motorbike, which I
> frequently use to complete a journey after a bus or train ride, would be
> to
> take a regular taxi for the whole journey as it would simply take too
> long
> otherwise.
>
> --jonathan
>
> -----
>
> Jonathan E. D. Richmond 02 524-5510
> (office)
> Visiting Fellow Intl.: 662 524-5510
> Transportation Engineering program
> School of Civil Engineering, Room N260B 02 524-8257 (home)
> Asian Institute of Technology Intl.: 662 524-8257
> PO Box 4
> Klong Luang, Pathumthani 12120 02 524-5509 (fax)
> Thailand Intl: 662 524-5509
>
> e-mail: richmond@ait.ac.th Secretary: Ms. Nisarat
> Hansuksa
> richmond@alum.mit.edu 02 524-6051
> Intl: 662 524-6051
> http://the-tech.mit.edu/~richmond/
>
>
>
>
--
****************************************
Khuat Viet Hung, M.Eng
(C/o: Prof. Manfred Boltze)
Institut fuer Verkehr, TU Darmstadt
Petersenstrasse 30, 64287 Darmstadt, Deutschland
Tel. : + 49-6151-16 2026
Fax: + 49-6151-16 2045
NEU: Bis zu 10 GB Speicher für e-mails & Dateien!
1 GB bereits bei GMX FreeMail http://www.gmx.net/de/go/mail
From karl at dnet.net.id Wed Aug 25 02:17:32 2004
From: karl at dnet.net.id (Karl Fjellstrom)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 00:17:32 +0700
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
In-Reply-To: <13232.1093360924@www11.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <20040824181606.728E92C5D4@mx-list.jca.ne.jp>
Thanks for the feedback and discussion.... Wanted to query one idea. Just
because a service is poor, or unregulated, or unsafe, or environmentally
unsound, does that necessarily mean it must be 'good for the poor'? Why
can't the 'poor' have a high quality transit service with high quality
pedestrian & bicycle access and supported by supplementary options such as
motorcycle taxis where needed?
For example: in Pattaya, Thailand, 'the poor' have for years been held
ransom by the paratransit (van and motorcycle taxi) mafia. Earlier this year
for 3 months a quality bus service was introduced, a small circular route
featuring three 25 seater minibuses, a contra-flow bus lane, timetable,
passenger information, comfortable seating, low emissions, a polite & well
trained driver, and other innovations focusing on providing a good service.
In short, everything the paratransit service wasn't. The service operated
for 3 months, charging a flat fare of 5 baht (about US$0.12). Actually they
wanted to provide it for free, as the full cost of the service was covered
by advertising on the bus. But the paratransit mafia wouldn't let them. It
was very popular with the locals, and was used for more than 3,000 trips
daily. The strong focus of the service was on meeting needs of low income
locals. Service was offered late into the night and they wanted to operate
the service up to 2.30am but again the paratransit mafia intervened to
insist they stopped operating at midnight (the bars close at 2am). They
wanted to extend the service to more residential areas, and to extend it
beyond the initial 3 month period, but again were stopped by the paratransit
mafia and their govt proxies. This is the same paratransit that simply turfs
out local passengers if a wealthy tourist happens along. The paratransit
combination of vans and motorcycle taxis often (not always, often they are
great) offers a similarly high cost and poor level of service for low income
residents in Chiang Mai, but attempts to provide better services are
resisted by the van/ mc taxi mafia.
I don't go along with Jonathan's idea that walking and cycling is
inappropriate for Bangkok and neither does a leading Governorial candidate,
Apirak Kosayodhin, who is campaigning on a platform of Bus Rapid Transit,
and wide walkways and bicycle lanes along all new roads (elections on 29th
August...).
Regards, Karl
PS: Guangzhou by the way is banning motorcycles from next year. Main concern
was security, they perceived a high level of crime associated with
motorcycles. Another concern is the way the motorcycles taxis park and ride
all over the walkways. This has led to a sudden spurt in bicycle purchases,
as m/c riders for the moment at least go back to bicycles.
-----Original Message-----
From: sustran-discuss-bounces+karl=dnet.net.id@list.jca.apc.org
[mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+karl=dnet.net.id@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf
Of Viet Hung Khuat
Sent: Tuesday, 24 August 2004 10:22 PM
To: Anil K. Raut; Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
Hallo Anil,
It is nice to see yuor dicussion. However, we should consider some points as
follows:
1. The MC Taxis in BKK are mainly serving the Thai who really have lower
income than any foregn tourists but high quaily in Thai language.
2. In between 20-50 years the city like Hanoi, New Dehli or som other cities
have no money to provide enough Mass Transit Serivice.
What are the alternatives? and What is the cheapeast one?
Have a nice day,
HUNG
> Very interesting debate. There are many points, I need to address on
> the discussions.
>
> First: Jonathan. You mentioned the positive role of these 'bike-taxis'
> on the streets of Bangkok. This was what I assumed when I saw them on
> the streets of Bangkok. I was even trying to ride one. But I was not
> familiar
with
> the city and these drivers were not good enough on English. So there
> was a high chance that I could be taken to unwanted area. I gave up the
idea.
>
> Another point is: I am not talking about the higher share of these
> bike-taxis on public transport. There is obviously role for
mass-transport. I just
> wanted to see what could be role of these bike-taxis on a balanced
> modal-split. I am not pushing this forward but it is good have idea on
what is
> going on around the world and importantly WHY it is happening, what
> are
the
> driving forces. We could then localise these knowledge and plan our
> city accordingly.
>
> I agree with Jonathan's point. 'A bike operating on demand in a
> suburban area can be considerably more efficient than buses
> circulating most of the day almost empty.' This was also my
> observation which forced me to think about the possibility of
> bike-taxis. I am not saying; mass-transport will consume less fuel than
bike. I was intended to say what you mentioned.
Bike
> taxi can consume less fuel (and space) than a car-taxi with almost
> most of time with single occupancy. BUT, there is certain role of mass
transit.
Bike
> taxi should not be alternative to the mass-transit rather to their
> supplement.
>
> Second: Mr. Mehta. I do agree with you in all ways. Yes, the oil price
> has been going up and this has already creating problem in our country
> in terms of revenue. We are advocating for alternative energy (which
> are
available
> within our country- hydropower) and its use in transportation sector.
> Till now electric vehicles are bit costly than fossil fuel vehicles.
> But I guess a time will come, when the fossil fuel price will be
> higher than
electric
> and we could easily promote electric vehicles. This is what the market
> drive. At this time, we can not just push the entrepreneurs to go for
electric
> vehicles. They will obviously go for low cost options. However, we
> have already more than 600 electric three-wheelers in Kathmandu. And
> possibly
in
> future the share of electric transport will be increased (trolley, trams).
>
> But as I said earlier, this was what I intended to look for various
> options. Our goal is the effective transport management with less
> emission overall. For that we need to explore both the long and short
> term
possibilities.
>
> Karl: Thanks for adding more point to understand the Bangkok
> bike-taxis. I know they were being parked within the walkways. But
> don't you think this is a management problem rather than the
> particular mode? I would love to know more about the Bangkok taxis
> from you. If there has been any study on the impact on environment,
transport management due to these taxis.
>
> The discussion is being interesting. Any additional thoughts????
>
> Regards,
>
> Anil K. Raut
> ----------------------------
> Anil K. Raut
> P. O. Box 8846
> Kathmandu, NEPAL
> E-mail: ankraut@wlink.com.np; anil@environmentnepal.com.np
> Tel: 977-1-4232761 (Res.)/977-9841233941 (Mobile)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Karl Fjellstrom
> To: 'Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport'
> Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 8:44 AM
> Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
>
>
> One of the downsides is that motorcycle taxis tend to lounge around
> and park
> on walkways, and ride on walkways for at least part of their journey,
> honking aggressively to clear away those bothersome pedestrians.
> Further,
> the areas they congregate in tend to be more concentrated areas of
> pedestrian activity such as major bus stops, markets, etc. In
> Bangkok it's
> common for them to cordon off areas near a bus stop to the detriment of
> waiting bus passengers - e.g. in front of Pata Pinklao. Not to
> mention the
> noise and air pollution they contribute, often in areas with lots of
> people
> which already suffer noise and air pollution (there's been an
> interesting
> debate on noise pollution recently in Bangkok following data
> released by the
> Env Ministry).
>
> Another consideration is that many of the motorcylce taxi trips in
> Bangkok
> are within an easy walking distance - if only there was a navigable,
> pleasant walkway. If conditions for short distance trips by walking were
> improved, the demand for motorcycle taxis would diminish. Also,
> where trips
> are too long to walk, bicycles could easily substitute for
> motorcycle taxis
> for many trips, if only secure parking areas and other forms of
> encouragement were provided for cycling. Such measures need not cost
> a lot.
>
> But there seems to be little interesting in encouraging alternatives to
> motorcycle taxis, and this leads to the point that the motorcycle taxi
> industry is also a major contributor to corruption, by most estimates
> contributing tens of millions of dollars each year in pay-offs to
> police and
> others. It's great to have these motorcycle taxi services in
> outlying areas
> where otherwise no other service might be available, but the real
> issue is
> their presence in congested urban areas. They can play a valuable
> role as
> Jonathan outlines. However, at least in Bangkok which I'm more familiar
> with, encouraging walking and cycling and improved bus routings as an
> alternative to motorcycle taxis wherever possible, and strictly
> prohibiting
> motorcycle taxis from parking or driving on walkways, would have many
> benefits.
>
> Regards, Karl
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+karl=dnet.net.id@list.jca.apc.org
> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+karl=dnet.net.id@list.jca.apc.org]
> On Behalf
> Of Jonathan E. D. Richmond
> Sent: Monday, 23 August 2004 11:18 PM
> To: Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport
> Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
>
>
> It is a mistake to assume that official public transport will
> necessarily
> result in the consumption of less fuel than motorbike taxis or that
> it can
> replace them in many instances. A bike operating on demand in a suburban
> area can be considerably more efficient than buses circulating most
> of the
> day almost empty.
>
> In fact, many motorbike services do operate as public transport --
> charging
> about the same fare but providing a level of frequency not possible with
> buses. For low-income people living in outlying suburbs, there may be no
> alternative if density is inufficient for more formal operations --
> in fact,
> in many cases, the bikes actually operate from bus stops and provide
> services to locations not served by buses.
>
> So we have to be careful about making generalizations.
>
> Note that in my case the alternative to taking a motorbike, which I
> frequently use to complete a journey after a bus or train ride,
> would be to
> take a regular taxi for the whole journey as it would simply take
> too long
> otherwise.
>
> --jonathan
>
> -----
>
> Jonathan E. D. Richmond 02 524-5510
> (office)
> Visiting Fellow Intl.: 662 524-5510
> Transportation Engineering program
> School of Civil Engineering, Room N260B 02 524-8257 (home)
> Asian Institute of Technology Intl.: 662 524-8257
> PO Box 4
> Klong Luang, Pathumthani 12120 02 524-5509 (fax)
> Thailand Intl: 662 524-5509
>
> e-mail: richmond@ait.ac.th Secretary: Ms. Nisarat
> Hansuksa
> richmond@alum.mit.edu 02 524-6051
> Intl: 662 524-6051
> http://the-tech.mit.edu/~richmond/
>
>
>
>
--
****************************************
Khuat Viet Hung, M.Eng
(C/o: Prof. Manfred Boltze)
Institut fuer Verkehr, TU Darmstadt
Petersenstrasse 30, 64287 Darmstadt, Deutschland Tel. : + 49-6151-16 2026
Fax: + 49-6151-16 2045
NEU: Bis zu 10 GB Speicher f|r e-mails & Dateien!
1 GB bereits bei GMX FreeMail http://www.gmx.net/de/go/mail
From richmond at alum.mit.edu Wed Aug 25 04:38:13 2004
From: richmond at alum.mit.edu (Jonathan E. D. Richmond)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 02:38:13 +0700 (SE Asia Standard Time)
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
In-Reply-To: <20040824181606.728E92C5D4@mx-list.jca.ne.jp>
References: <20040824181606.728E92C5D4@mx-list.jca.ne.jp>
Message-ID:
On Wed, 25 Aug 2004, Karl Fjellstrom wrote:
> Thanks for the feedback and discussion.... Wanted to query one idea. Just
> because a service is poor, or unregulated, or unsafe, or environmentally
> unsound, does that necessarily mean it must be 'good for the poor'?
No, but if nothing else is going to be done, it is wrong to eliminate a
service upon which poor people depend.
Why
> can't the 'poor' have a high quality transit service with high quality
> pedestrian & bicycle access and supported by supplementary options such as
> motorcycle taxis where needed?
Bangkok has repeatedly shown an inability to provide such services, and
even if they were provided they would not serve suburban needs because of
Bangkok's layout.
We should do all we can to provide much improved transit services of value
to the low-income, but that involves providing priority rights-of-way as
well as fundamental changes in operating procedures. The central
government has shown no indication of moving in this direction. While
metropolitan administrations have shown interest, they have no powers of
implementation.
>
> For example: in Pattaya, Thailand, 'the poor' have for years been held
> ransom by the paratransit (van and motorcycle taxi) mafia. Earlier this year
> for 3 months a quality bus service was introduced, a small circular route
> featuring three 25 seater minibuses, a contra-flow bus lane, timetable,
> passenger information, comfortable seating, low emissions, a polite & well
> trained driver, and other innovations focusing on providing a good service.
> In short, everything the paratransit service wasn't.
And in the process it doubtless threatened the livelihoods of large
numbers of operators who are themselves poor. Naturally, they fought back.
The service operated
> for 3 months, charging a flat fare of 5 baht (about US$0.12). Actually they
> wanted to provide it for free, as the full cost of the service was covered
> by advertising on the bus. But the paratransit mafia wouldn't let them. It
> was very popular with the locals, and was used for more than 3,000 trips
> daily.
That seems like a small number of trips.
The strong focus of the service was on meeting needs of low income
> locals. Service was offered late into the night and they wanted to operate
> the service up to 2.30am but again the paratransit mafia intervened to
> insist they stopped operating at midnight (the bars close at 2am). They
> wanted to extend the service to more residential areas, and to extend it
> beyond the initial 3 month period, but again were stopped by the paratransit
> mafia and their govt proxies. This is the same paratransit that simply turfs
> out local passengers if a wealthy tourist happens along.
It happens occasionally -- but the operators are remarkably honest with
the locals, with ripping off reserved for farangs.
The paratransit
> combination of vans and motorcycle taxis often (not always, often they are
> great) offers a similarly high cost
What do you mean by "high cost?" 10 baht?
and poor level of service for low income
> residents in Chiang Mai, but attempts to provide better services are
> resisted by the van/ mc taxi mafia.
>
> I don't go along with Jonathan's idea that walking and cycling is
> inappropriate for Bangkok and neither does a leading Governorial candidate,
> Apirak Kosayodhin, who is campaigning on a platform of Bus Rapid Transit,
> and wide walkways and bicycle lanes along all new roads (elections on 29th
> August...).
I agree with the Bus Rapid Transit part, and if the walkways make the city
look better, fine. Just don't expect Thais to walk long distances on
them. My observation is that even poor people prefer to ride for even a
few blocks.
>
> Regards, Karl
>
> PS: Guangzhou by the way is banning motorcycles from next year. Main concern
> was security, they perceived a high level of crime associated with
> motorcycles. Another concern is the way the motorcycles taxis park and ride
> all over the walkways.
Sounds like part of the Chinese concern for cosmetics... So, suppress the
motorbikes and let the car drivers do whatever they want... --J!
This has led to a sudden spurt in bicycle purchases,
> as m/c riders for the moment at least go back to bicycles.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+karl=dnet.net.id@list.jca.apc.org
> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+karl=dnet.net.id@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf
> Of Viet Hung Khuat
> Sent: Tuesday, 24 August 2004 10:22 PM
> To: Anil K. Raut; Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport
> Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
>
> Hallo Anil,
> It is nice to see yuor dicussion. However, we should consider some points as
> follows:
> 1. The MC Taxis in BKK are mainly serving the Thai who really have lower
> income than any foregn tourists but high quaily in Thai language.
> 2. In between 20-50 years the city like Hanoi, New Dehli or som other cities
> have no money to provide enough Mass Transit Serivice.
> What are the alternatives? and What is the cheapeast one?
> Have a nice day,
> HUNG
> > Very interesting debate. There are many points, I need to address on
> > the discussions.
> >
> > First: Jonathan. You mentioned the positive role of these 'bike-taxis'
> > on the streets of Bangkok. This was what I assumed when I saw them on
> > the streets of Bangkok. I was even trying to ride one. But I was not
> > familiar
> with
> > the city and these drivers were not good enough on English. So there
> > was a high chance that I could be taken to unwanted area. I gave up the
> idea.
> >
> > Another point is: I am not talking about the higher share of these
> > bike-taxis on public transport. There is obviously role for
> mass-transport. I just
> > wanted to see what could be role of these bike-taxis on a balanced
> > modal-split. I am not pushing this forward but it is good have idea on
> what is
> > going on around the world and importantly WHY it is happening, what
> > are
> the
> > driving forces. We could then localise these knowledge and plan our
> > city accordingly.
> >
> > I agree with Jonathan's point. 'A bike operating on demand in a
> > suburban area can be considerably more efficient than buses
> > circulating most of the day almost empty.' This was also my
> > observation which forced me to think about the possibility of
> > bike-taxis. I am not saying; mass-transport will consume less fuel than
> bike. I was intended to say what you mentioned.
> Bike
> > taxi can consume less fuel (and space) than a car-taxi with almost
> > most of time with single occupancy. BUT, there is certain role of mass
> transit.
> Bike
> > taxi should not be alternative to the mass-transit rather to their
> > supplement.
> >
> > Second: Mr. Mehta. I do agree with you in all ways. Yes, the oil price
> > has been going up and this has already creating problem in our country
> > in terms of revenue. We are advocating for alternative energy (which
> > are
> available
> > within our country- hydropower) and its use in transportation sector.
> > Till now electric vehicles are bit costly than fossil fuel vehicles.
> > But I guess a time will come, when the fossil fuel price will be
> > higher than
> electric
> > and we could easily promote electric vehicles. This is what the market
> > drive. At this time, we can not just push the entrepreneurs to go for
> electric
> > vehicles. They will obviously go for low cost options. However, we
> > have already more than 600 electric three-wheelers in Kathmandu. And
> > possibly
> in
> > future the share of electric transport will be increased (trolley, trams).
> >
> > But as I said earlier, this was what I intended to look for various
> > options. Our goal is the effective transport management with less
> > emission overall. For that we need to explore both the long and short
> > term
> possibilities.
> >
> > Karl: Thanks for adding more point to understand the Bangkok
> > bike-taxis. I know they were being parked within the walkways. But
> > don't you think this is a management problem rather than the
> > particular mode? I would love to know more about the Bangkok taxis
> > from you. If there has been any study on the impact on environment,
> transport management due to these taxis.
> >
> > The discussion is being interesting. Any additional thoughts????
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Anil K. Raut
> > ----------------------------
> > Anil K. Raut
> > P. O. Box 8846
> > Kathmandu, NEPAL
> > E-mail: ankraut@wlink.com.np; anil@environmentnepal.com.np
> > Tel: 977-1-4232761 (Res.)/977-9841233941 (Mobile)
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Karl Fjellstrom
> > To: 'Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport'
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 8:44 AM
> > Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
> >
> >
> > One of the downsides is that motorcycle taxis tend to lounge around
> > and park
> > on walkways, and ride on walkways for at least part of their journey,
> > honking aggressively to clear away those bothersome pedestrians.
> > Further,
> > the areas they congregate in tend to be more concentrated areas of
> > pedestrian activity such as major bus stops, markets, etc. In
> > Bangkok it's
> > common for them to cordon off areas near a bus stop to the detriment of
> > waiting bus passengers - e.g. in front of Pata Pinklao. Not to
> > mention the
> > noise and air pollution they contribute, often in areas with lots of
> > people
> > which already suffer noise and air pollution (there's been an
> > interesting
> > debate on noise pollution recently in Bangkok following data
> > released by the
> > Env Ministry).
> >
> > Another consideration is that many of the motorcylce taxi trips in
> > Bangkok
> > are within an easy walking distance - if only there was a navigable,
> > pleasant walkway. If conditions for short distance trips by walking were
> > improved, the demand for motorcycle taxis would diminish. Also,
> > where trips
> > are too long to walk, bicycles could easily substitute for
> > motorcycle taxis
> > for many trips, if only secure parking areas and other forms of
> > encouragement were provided for cycling. Such measures need not cost
> > a lot.
> >
> > But there seems to be little interesting in encouraging alternatives to
> > motorcycle taxis, and this leads to the point that the motorcycle taxi
> > industry is also a major contributor to corruption, by most estimates
> > contributing tens of millions of dollars each year in pay-offs to
> > police and
> > others. It's great to have these motorcycle taxi services in
> > outlying areas
> > where otherwise no other service might be available, but the real
> > issue is
> > their presence in congested urban areas. They can play a valuable
> > role as
> > Jonathan outlines. However, at least in Bangkok which I'm more familiar
> > with, encouraging walking and cycling and improved bus routings as an
> > alternative to motorcycle taxis wherever possible, and strictly
> > prohibiting
> > motorcycle taxis from parking or driving on walkways, would have many
> > benefits.
> >
> > Regards, Karl
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: sustran-discuss-bounces+karl=dnet.net.id@list.jca.apc.org
> > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+karl=dnet.net.id@list.jca.apc.org]
> > On Behalf
> > Of Jonathan E. D. Richmond
> > Sent: Monday, 23 August 2004 11:18 PM
> > To: Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport
> > Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
> >
> >
> > It is a mistake to assume that official public transport will
> > necessarily
> > result in the consumption of less fuel than motorbike taxis or that
> > it can
> > replace them in many instances. A bike operating on demand in a suburban
> > area can be considerably more efficient than buses circulating most
> > of the
> > day almost empty.
> >
> > In fact, many motorbike services do operate as public transport --
> > charging
> > about the same fare but providing a level of frequency not possible with
> > buses. For low-income people living in outlying suburbs, there may be no
> > alternative if density is inufficient for more formal operations --
> > in fact,
> > in many cases, the bikes actually operate from bus stops and provide
> > services to locations not served by buses.
> >
> > So we have to be careful about making generalizations.
> >
> > Note that in my case the alternative to taking a motorbike, which I
> > frequently use to complete a journey after a bus or train ride,
> > would be to
> > take a regular taxi for the whole journey as it would simply take
> > too long
> > otherwise.
> >
> > --jonathan
> >
> > -----
> >
> > Jonathan E. D. Richmond 02 524-5510
> > (office)
> > Visiting Fellow Intl.: 662 524-5510
> > Transportation Engineering program
> > School of Civil Engineering, Room N260B 02 524-8257 (home)
> > Asian Institute of Technology Intl.: 662 524-8257
> > PO Box 4
> > Klong Luang, Pathumthani 12120 02 524-5509 (fax)
> > Thailand Intl: 662 524-5509
> >
> > e-mail: richmond@ait.ac.th Secretary: Ms. Nisarat
> > Hansuksa
> > richmond@alum.mit.edu 02 524-6051
> > Intl: 662 524-6051
> > http://the-tech.mit.edu/~richmond/
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> ****************************************
> Khuat Viet Hung, M.Eng
> (C/o: Prof. Manfred Boltze)
> Institut fuer Verkehr, TU Darmstadt
> Petersenstrasse 30, 64287 Darmstadt, Deutschland Tel. : + 49-6151-16 2026
> Fax: + 49-6151-16 2045
>
> NEU: Bis zu 10 GB Speicher f|r e-mails & Dateien!
> 1 GB bereits bei GMX FreeMail http://www.gmx.net/de/go/mail
>
>
>
-----
Jonathan E. D. Richmond 02 524-5510 (office)
Visiting Fellow Intl.: 662 524-5510
Transportation Engineering program
School of Civil Engineering, Room N260B 02 524-8257 (home)
Asian Institute of Technology Intl.: 662 524-8257
PO Box 4
Klong Luang, Pathumthani 12120 02 524-5509 (fax)
Thailand Intl: 662 524-5509
e-mail: richmond@ait.ac.th Secretary: Ms. Nisarat Hansuksa
richmond@alum.mit.edu 02 524-6051
Intl: 662 524-6051
http://the-tech.mit.edu/~richmond/
From townsend at alcor.concordia.ca Wed Aug 25 06:28:19 2004
From: townsend at alcor.concordia.ca (Craig Townsend)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 17:28:19 -0400
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
In-Reply-To: <13688.1093353168@www15.gmx.net>
References: <20040824035758.A4E4B2DE2F@mx-list.jca.ne.jp>
<13688.1093353168@www15.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.0.20040824172508.019fd770@alcor.concordia.ca>
I would like to add a few points to this great discussion:
1. This discussion is being carried out based on observations rather than
systematic or empirical research, thus it is hard to assess any claim such
as motorcycles contribute more/less than other modes to the use of energy,
fatalities, etc, in a given city in comparison with other cities or within
a city. If anyone knows of such research, references would help the
discussion. Some data collected on Asian cities indicate that petrol use in
Bangkok is higher per capita than in any other city surveyed in Asia
(including Tokyo, Singapore, Hong Kong), so it would be hard to argue that
the proliferation of motorcycles has contributed to energy efficiency of
the transport system as a whole (although perhaps in outer suburban areas
they may be better than buses).
2. Motorcycles are a mode catering to individual travel and are hence less
useful than some other modes to activities involving travel by multiple
individuals and individuals carrying things. In some cities this could
translate into a bias against women who are often responsible for looking
after children and carrying goods (while men may be doing more individual
commuting to and from the workplace). Empirical data on sex and motorcycle
use would help.
3. It is hard to know whether Thailand's particular class system is a cause
or a consequence of transport conditions. (i.e. are non-motorized transport
conditions poor because the users of that infrastructure are people with
low social status or are they forced to use that infrastructure because
they have low social status?) One argument for the proposition that
"non-motorized transport conditions are poor because the users of that
infrastructure are people with low social status" is that high status
people in Bangkok do walk, but it is in air conditioned, privatized spaces
such as shopping malls. (This activity is not picked up in the travel
survey data.) Also, a large and growing segment of the upper middle class
and wealthy social strata in Bangkok now pay to walk on treadmills! (See
the second floor health club at the intersection of Soi Convent and Silom
Road!)
4. While the heat and humidity certainly make walking outside in Bangkok
uncomfortable and tiring, I don't believe they are sufficient to explain
the remarkably low levels of walking recorded in travel surveys. In other
cities such as Singapore where it is a little hotter and more humid people
(both foreign visitors and locals) walk a lot more than in Bangkok
(although probably far less than they would if sidewalk conditions and
distances were the same but the temperature was significantly cooler). A
danger in the argument given by many people in Thailand that they are
culturally-programmed not to walk (and that their culture cannot change) is
that no attempt is made to provide decent public sidewalks or even to halt
the continuing deterioration in quality and quantity. The only significant
recent sidewalk improvement measures in Bangkok have been undertaken in
areas catering for rich locals and tourists or in areas linked to luxury
shopping centres.
Best regards,
Craig Townsend
At 09:12 AM 24/08/2004, you wrote:
>Hallo,
>I am fully agree with Karl about the issue of walkway occupancy by MC Taxi.
>But I have here discussions as follows:
>1. There is no consideration of government and experts about the intermodal
>facilities between MC taxi and Public transport.
>2. No concern about where should be the park or waiting place for MC taxi
>while most of the activities centers have taxi waiting area.
>3. Regarding the trip length: we should consider the weather conditions in
>Bangkok or Hanoi, it is different from most of European countries. So, the
>ASEAN people may do not want to walk on this condition.
>4. If we have no MC taxi, It would be worse if 10% the passengers will use
>the PC, 40% will use the PC-taxi, even the rest 50% will use the NMV for
>their paratransit trip.
>Sincerely,
>HUNG
> > One of the downsides is that motorcycle taxis tend to lounge around and
> > park
> > on walkways, and ride on walkways for at least part of their journey,
> > honking aggressively to clear away those bothersome pedestrians. Further,
> > the areas they congregate in tend to be more concentrated areas of
> > pedestrian activity such as major bus stops, markets, etc. In Bangkok it's
> > common for them to cordon off areas near a bus stop to the detriment of
> > waiting bus passengers - e.g. in front of Pata Pinklao. Not to mention the
> > noise and air pollution they contribute, often in areas with lots of
> > people
> > which already suffer noise and air pollution (there's been an interesting
> > debate on noise pollution recently in Bangkok following data released by
> > the
> > Env Ministry).
> >
> > Another consideration is that many of the motorcylce taxi trips in Bangkok
> > are within an easy walking distance - if only there was a navigable,
> > pleasant walkway. If conditions for short distance trips by walking were
> > improved, the demand for motorcycle taxis would diminish. Also, where
> > trips
> > are too long to walk, bicycles could easily substitute for motorcycle
> > taxis
> > for many trips, if only secure parking areas and other forms of
> > encouragement were provided for cycling. Such measures need not cost a
> > lot.
> >
> > But there seems to be little interesting in encouraging alternatives to
> > motorcycle taxis, and this leads to the point that the motorcycle taxi
> > industry is also a major contributor to corruption, by most estimates
> > contributing tens of millions of dollars each year in pay-offs to police
> > and
> > others. It's great to have these motorcycle taxi services in outlying
> > areas
> > where otherwise no other service might be available, but the real issue is
> > their presence in congested urban areas. They can play a valuable role as
> > Jonathan outlines. However, at least in Bangkok which I'm more familiar
> > with, encouraging walking and cycling and improved bus routings as an
> > alternative to motorcycle taxis wherever possible, and strictly
> > prohibiting
> > motorcycle taxis from parking or driving on walkways, would have many
> > benefits.
> >
> > Regards, Karl
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: sustran-discuss-bounces+karl=dnet.net.id@list.jca.apc.org
> > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+karl=dnet.net.id@list.jca.apc.org] On
> > Behalf
> > Of Jonathan E. D. Richmond
> > Sent: Monday, 23 August 2004 11:18 PM
> > To: Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport
> > Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
> >
> >
> > It is a mistake to assume that official public transport will necessarily
> > result in the consumption of less fuel than motorbike taxis or that it can
> > replace them in many instances. A bike operating on demand in a suburban
> > area can be considerably more efficient than buses circulating most of the
> > day almost empty.
> >
> > In fact, many motorbike services do operate as public transport --
> > charging
> > about the same fare but providing a level of frequency not possible with
> > buses. For low-income people living in outlying suburbs, there may be no
> > alternative if density is inufficient for more formal operations -- in
> > fact,
> > in many cases, the bikes actually operate from bus stops and provide
> > services to locations not served by buses.
> >
> > So we have to be careful about making generalizations.
> >
> > Note that in my case the alternative to taking a motorbike, which I
> > frequently use to complete a journey after a bus or train ride, would be
> > to
> > take a regular taxi for the whole journey as it would simply take too long
> > otherwise.
> >
> > --jonathan
> >
> > -----
> >
> > Jonathan E. D. Richmond 02 524-5510 (office)
> > Visiting Fellow Intl.: 662 524-5510
> > Transportation Engineering program
> > School of Civil Engineering, Room N260B 02 524-8257 (home)
> > Asian Institute of Technology Intl.: 662 524-8257
> > PO Box 4
> > Klong Luang, Pathumthani 12120 02 524-5509 (fax)
> > Thailand Intl: 662 524-5509
> >
> > e-mail: richmond@ait.ac.th Secretary: Ms. Nisarat Hansuksa
> > richmond@alum.mit.edu 02 524-6051
> > Intl: 662 524-6051
> > http://the-tech.mit.edu/~richmond/
> >
> >
> >
>
>--
>****************************************
>Khuat Viet Hung, M.Eng
>(C/o: Prof. Manfred Boltze)
>Institut fuer Verkehr, TU Darmstadt
>Petersenstrasse 30, 64287 Darmstadt, Deutschland
>Tel. : + 49-6151-16 2026
>Fax: + 49-6151-16 2045
>
>NEU: Bis zu 10 GB Speicher f?r e-mails & Dateien!
>1 GB bereits bei GMX FreeMail http://www.gmx.net/de/go/mail
From richmond at alum.mit.edu Wed Aug 25 13:49:55 2004
From: richmond at alum.mit.edu (Jonathan E. D. Richmond)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:49:55 +0700 (SE Asia Standard Time)
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
In-Reply-To: <6.1.1.1.0.20040824172508.019fd770@alcor.concordia.ca>
References: <20040824035758.A4E4B2DE2F@mx-list.jca.ne.jp>
<13688.1093353168@www15.gmx.net>
<6.1.1.1.0.20040824172508.019fd770@alcor.concordia.ca>
Message-ID:
Craig has excellent points to make. There is a very deep need for
serious systematic research, but this is unlikely to be funded unless an
international agency takes it on: units of government are far more
concerned with prestige projects.
Not only women with children but the elderly and handicapped are poorly
catered for in general, although I might add that it is common to see a
whole family on a motorbike. The walking infrastructure is a disgrace and
makes travel hard for people without cars. Many walkways are broken and
dangerous. Difficult obstacles are common -- to get from the major bus
arrival point at Rangsit to Future Park, one of the largest shopping malls
in Thailand, requires using a highway overpass whose first step is more
than a foot high and running across several traffic lanes after crossing
the first highway.
As to Singapore, the government has made a strong effort to provide
pleasant walking environments. The covered passageways in the housing
estates are a case in point. Still, when light rail was introduced,
requiring longer average access walks than for the previous bus service,
there were many complaints, and pressure has resulted in restoration of
some of the bus services. The walking environment in Bangkok is in dire
need of a complete overhaul, but I doubt the political will can be found
to do this, and I also doubt this would in itself change cultural
attitudes.
--Jonathan
-----
Jonathan E. D. Richmond 02 524-5510 (office)
Visiting Fellow Intl.: 662 524-5510
Transportation Engineering program
School of Civil Engineering, Room N260B 02 524-8257 (home)
Asian Institute of Technology Intl.: 662 524-8257
PO Box 4
Klong Luang, Pathumthani 12120 02 524-5509 (fax)
Thailand Intl: 662 524-5509
e-mail: richmond@ait.ac.th Secretary: Ms. Nisarat Hansuksa
richmond@alum.mit.edu 02 524-6051
Intl: 662 524-6051
http://the-tech.mit.edu/~richmond/
From kviethung at gmx.de Wed Aug 25 15:41:53 2004
From: kviethung at gmx.de (Viet Hung Khuat)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 08:41:53 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
References: <6.1.1.1.0.20040824172508.019fd770@alcor.concordia.ca>
Message-ID: <24469.1093416113@www50.gmx.net>
Good morning of a Vietnamese from Germany,
I am very happy when I can joint this discussion and many people are
discussing about the topic of my research. I promise that next year I will
bring to you some more detail information.
Thanks for Craig's comments, but I would like to make some explainations on
that as follows:
1. Regarding the fuel consumption: I am my self a motorcyclist, I have a
normal Japanese moped (HONDA DREAM II 100 cc). Every week I have to pay
about VND 12.000 (80 US Cent) for gasoline (about 2 litter), the total trip
length is aboout 120-150 km/week. So, I guest that you will have your own
calculation with your car. So, what is cheaper?. In addition, I need only
1m2 for parking this MC.
2. If you go to Vietnam, you will see many beutiful lady riding on
motorcycle. Most of parents are bringing their child to school with
motorcycle. For multipurpose, you may know that the Vietnamese got win from
the first Vietnam War (With French) by the bicycle logistics system. So, I
may happy to send you some pictures about the freight motorcycle if you
want.
3. Your third discussion may be right with mentioning about the growth of
middle class in such country like Thailand or Vietnam. I would like to add
more here that in Vietnam or Thailand there is thinking among people and
even political that "Walkers are poor", so, we should find other way to do
with NMV.
4. Again, I would like to bring the social attitude to add into your
discussion. In Singapore, the current thinking of people is different from
Thai or Vietnam. As you may recorgnized that after 40 years of many
Congestion Reducing Efforts, the pedestrian zone is just adopted in
Singapore. So, I guest that the mind of people in Singapore in 1970 or 1980
is similar to Thai and Vietnamese today. I am agree that there are some ones
in Thailand or Vietnam may have better attitude toward NMV, but they are few
and have no power. On the other hand, the son of Primeminister Phan Van Khai
started his car business in 2003. So, what should we do?
Best regards,
HUNG
> I would like to add a few points to this great discussion:
>
> 1. This discussion is being carried out based on observations rather than
> systematic or empirical research, thus it is hard to assess any claim such
> as motorcycles contribute more/less than other modes to the use of energy,
> fatalities, etc, in a given city in comparison with other cities or within
> a city. If anyone knows of such research, references would help the
> discussion. Some data collected on Asian cities indicate that petrol use
> in
> Bangkok is higher per capita than in any other city surveyed in Asia
> (including Tokyo, Singapore, Hong Kong), so it would be hard to argue that
> the proliferation of motorcycles has contributed to energy efficiency of
> the transport system as a whole (although perhaps in outer suburban areas
> they may be better than buses).
>
> 2. Motorcycles are a mode catering to individual travel and are hence less
> useful than some other modes to activities involving travel by multiple
> individuals and individuals carrying things. In some cities this could
> translate into a bias against women who are often responsible for looking
> after children and carrying goods (while men may be doing more individual
> commuting to and from the workplace). Empirical data on sex and motorcycle
> use would help.
>
> 3. It is hard to know whether Thailand's particular class system is a
> cause
> or a consequence of transport conditions. (i.e. are non-motorized
> transport
> conditions poor because the users of that infrastructure are people with
> low social status or are they forced to use that infrastructure because
> they have low social status?) One argument for the proposition that
> "non-motorized transport conditions are poor because the users of that
> infrastructure are people with low social status" is that high status
> people in Bangkok do walk, but it is in air conditioned, privatized spaces
> such as shopping malls. (This activity is not picked up in the travel
> survey data.) Also, a large and growing segment of the upper middle class
> and wealthy social strata in Bangkok now pay to walk on treadmills! (See
> the second floor health club at the intersection of Soi Convent and Silom
> Road!)
>
> 4. While the heat and humidity certainly make walking outside in Bangkok
> uncomfortable and tiring, I don't believe they are sufficient to explain
> the remarkably low levels of walking recorded in travel surveys. In other
> cities such as Singapore where it is a little hotter and more humid people
> (both foreign visitors and locals) walk a lot more than in Bangkok
> (although probably far less than they would if sidewalk conditions and
> distances were the same but the temperature was significantly cooler). A
> danger in the argument given by many people in Thailand that they are
> culturally-programmed not to walk (and that their culture cannot change)
> is
> that no attempt is made to provide decent public sidewalks or even to halt
> the continuing deterioration in quality and quantity. The only significant
> recent sidewalk improvement measures in Bangkok have been undertaken in
> areas catering for rich locals and tourists or in areas linked to luxury
> shopping centres.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Craig Townsend
>
>
> At 09:12 AM 24/08/2004, you wrote:
> >Hallo,
> >I am fully agree with Karl about the issue of walkway occupancy by MC
> Taxi.
> >But I have here discussions as follows:
> >1. There is no consideration of government and experts about the
> intermodal
> >facilities between MC taxi and Public transport.
> >2. No concern about where should be the park or waiting place for MC taxi
> >while most of the activities centers have taxi waiting area.
> >3. Regarding the trip length: we should consider the weather conditions
> in
> >Bangkok or Hanoi, it is different from most of European countries. So,
> the
> >ASEAN people may do not want to walk on this condition.
> >4. If we have no MC taxi, It would be worse if 10% the passengers will
> use
> >the PC, 40% will use the PC-taxi, even the rest 50% will use the NMV for
> >their paratransit trip.
> >Sincerely,
> >HUNG
> > > One of the downsides is that motorcycle taxis tend to lounge around
> and
> > > park
> > > on walkways, and ride on walkways for at least part of their journey,
> > > honking aggressively to clear away those bothersome pedestrians.
> Further,
> > > the areas they congregate in tend to be more concentrated areas of
> > > pedestrian activity such as major bus stops, markets, etc. In Bangkok
> it's
> > > common for them to cordon off areas near a bus stop to the detriment
> of
> > > waiting bus passengers - e.g. in front of Pata Pinklao. Not to mention
> the
> > > noise and air pollution they contribute, often in areas with lots of
> > > people
> > > which already suffer noise and air pollution (there's been an
> interesting
> > > debate on noise pollution recently in Bangkok following data released
> by
> > > the
> > > Env Ministry).
> > >
> > > Another consideration is that many of the motorcylce taxi trips in
> Bangkok
> > > are within an easy walking distance - if only there was a navigable,
> > > pleasant walkway. If conditions for short distance trips by walking
> were
> > > improved, the demand for motorcycle taxis would diminish. Also, where
> > > trips
> > > are too long to walk, bicycles could easily substitute for motorcycle
> > > taxis
> > > for many trips, if only secure parking areas and other forms of
> > > encouragement were provided for cycling. Such measures need not cost a
> > > lot.
> > >
> > > But there seems to be little interesting in encouraging alternatives
> to
> > > motorcycle taxis, and this leads to the point that the motorcycle taxi
> > > industry is also a major contributor to corruption, by most estimates
> > > contributing tens of millions of dollars each year in pay-offs to
> police
> > > and
> > > others. It's great to have these motorcycle taxi services in outlying
> > > areas
> > > where otherwise no other service might be available, but the real
> issue is
> > > their presence in congested urban areas. They can play a valuable role
> as
> > > Jonathan outlines. However, at least in Bangkok which I'm more
> familiar
> > > with, encouraging walking and cycling and improved bus routings as an
> > > alternative to motorcycle taxis wherever possible, and strictly
> > > prohibiting
> > > motorcycle taxis from parking or driving on walkways, would have many
> > > benefits.
> > >
> > > Regards, Karl
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: sustran-discuss-bounces+karl=dnet.net.id@list.jca.apc.org
> > > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+karl=dnet.net.id@list.jca.apc.org] On
> > > Behalf
> > > Of Jonathan E. D. Richmond
> > > Sent: Monday, 23 August 2004 11:18 PM
> > > To: Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport
> > > Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
> > >
> > >
> > > It is a mistake to assume that official public transport will
> necessarily
> > > result in the consumption of less fuel than motorbike taxis or that it
> can
> > > replace them in many instances. A bike operating on demand in a
> suburban
> > > area can be considerably more efficient than buses circulating most of
> the
> > > day almost empty.
> > >
> > > In fact, many motorbike services do operate as public transport --
> > > charging
> > > about the same fare but providing a level of frequency not possible
> with
> > > buses. For low-income people living in outlying suburbs, there may be
> no
> > > alternative if density is inufficient for more formal operations -- in
> > > fact,
> > > in many cases, the bikes actually operate from bus stops and provide
> > > services to locations not served by buses.
> > >
> > > So we have to be careful about making generalizations.
> > >
> > > Note that in my case the alternative to taking a motorbike, which I
> > > frequently use to complete a journey after a bus or train ride, would
> be
> > > to
> > > take a regular taxi for the whole journey as it would simply take too
> long
> > > otherwise.
> > >
> > > --jonathan
> > >
> > > -----
> > >
> > > Jonathan E. D. Richmond 02 524-5510
> (office)
> > > Visiting Fellow Intl.: 662 524-5510
> > > Transportation Engineering program
> > > School of Civil Engineering, Room N260B 02 524-8257
> (home)
> > > Asian Institute of Technology Intl.: 662 524-8257
> > > PO Box 4
> > > Klong Luang, Pathumthani 12120 02 524-5509
> (fax)
> > > Thailand Intl: 662 524-5509
> > >
> > > e-mail: richmond@ait.ac.th Secretary: Ms. Nisarat
> Hansuksa
> > > richmond@alum.mit.edu 02 524-6051
> > > Intl: 662 524-6051
> > > http://the-tech.mit.edu/~richmond/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >--
> >****************************************
> >Khuat Viet Hung, M.Eng
> >(C/o: Prof. Manfred Boltze)
> >Institut fuer Verkehr, TU Darmstadt
> >Petersenstrasse 30, 64287 Darmstadt, Deutschland
> >Tel. : + 49-6151-16 2026
> >Fax: + 49-6151-16 2045
> >
> >NEU: Bis zu 10 GB Speicher f?r e-mails & Dateien!
> >1 GB bereits bei GMX FreeMail http://www.gmx.net/de/go/mail
>
>
--
****************************************
Khuat Viet Hung, M.Eng
(C/o: Prof. Manfred Boltze)
Institut fuer Verkehr, TU Darmstadt
Petersenstrasse 30, 64287 Darmstadt, Deutschland
Tel. : + 49-6151-16 2026
Fax: + 49-6151-16 2045
Superg?nstige DSL-Tarife + WLAN-Router f?r 0,- EUR*
Jetzt zu GMX wechseln und sparen http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl
From ankraut at wlink.com.np Wed Aug 25 16:22:04 2004
From: ankraut at wlink.com.np (Anil K. Raut)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 13:07:04 +0545
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
References: <20040824035758.A4E4B2DE2F@mx-list.jca.ne.jp> <13688.1093353168@www15.gmx.net> <6.1.1.1.0.20040824172508.019fd770@alcor.concordia.ca>
Message-ID: <0b9c01c48a74$704b29b0$a62b4fca@Anil>
I saw clearly two groups of people on this topic. One for the bike-taxis and another against it. However, both of them lack solid research logic. We are only selling our arguments and observations till now.
Let's keep this debate going for some time (see how far we would go). Now, I am trying to summarise what we have discussed about bike-taxis in last few days. Arguments - for and against it. I will post them after completion. May be we could then lead towards some research on this issue, as mentioned my Jonathan.
At this point, could anyone provide me the history of these bike-taxis? Like; are they operating in these cities from the very beginning or they have been introduced afterwards. There might be some literatures justifying its introduction. It would be very interesting to learn, why they were introduced? There might be some thought on these bike-taxis by the policymakers at that time.
Anticipating some literatures, not just arguments.
Regards,
Anil K. Raut
----------------------------
Anil K. Raut
P. O. Box 8846
Kathmandu, NEPAL
E-mail: ankraut@wlink.com.np; anil@environmentnepal.com.np
Tel: 977-1-4232761 (Res.)/977-9841233941 (Mobile)
----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan E. D. Richmond
To: Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 10:34 AM
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
Craig has excellent points to make. There is a very deep need for
serious systematic research, but this is unlikely to be funded unless an
international agency takes it on: units of government are far more
concerned with prestige projects.
Not only women with children but the elderly and handicapped are poorly
catered for in general, although I might add that it is common to see a
whole family on a motorbike. The walking infrastructure is a disgrace and
makes travel hard for people without cars. Many walkways are broken and
dangerous. Difficult obstacles are common -- to get from the major bus
arrival point at Rangsit to Future Park, one of the largest shopping malls
in Thailand, requires using a highway overpass whose first step is more
than a foot high and running across several traffic lanes after crossing
the first highway.
As to Singapore, the government has made a strong effort to provide
pleasant walking environments. The covered passageways in the housing
estates are a case in point. Still, when light rail was introduced,
requiring longer average access walks than for the previous bus service,
there were many complaints, and pressure has resulted in restoration of
some of the bus services. The walking environment in Bangkok is in dire
need of a complete overhaul, but I doubt the political will can be found
to do this, and I also doubt this would in itself change cultural
attitudes.
--Jonathan
-----
Jonathan E. D. Richmond 02 524-5510 (office)
Visiting Fellow Intl.: 662 524-5510
Transportation Engineering program
School of Civil Engineering, Room N260B 02 524-8257 (home)
Asian Institute of Technology Intl.: 662 524-8257
PO Box 4
Klong Luang, Pathumthani 12120 02 524-5509 (fax)
Thailand Intl: 662 524-5509
e-mail: richmond@ait.ac.th Secretary: Ms. Nisarat Hansuksa
richmond@alum.mit.edu 02 524-6051
Intl: 662 524-6051
http://the-tech.mit.edu/~richmond/
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From ecoplan.adsl at wanadoo.fr Wed Aug 25 19:35:35 2004
From: ecoplan.adsl at wanadoo.fr (ecoplan.adsl@wanadoo.fr)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 12:35:35 +0200
Subject: [sustran] Information on 'Bike Taxi' -" E pur si muove"
Message-ID: <011401c48a8f$42f4ea80$6501a8c0@home>
"A riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma." -- Sir Winston
Churchill, October 1, 1939.
These fine, instructive and yes! in the final analysis truly and
fundamentally puzzling exchanges in these last days bring me back to
something that I have been meaning to share with all of you for some
time. This is in part prompted by conversations on this topic during a
recent visit here of Dinesh Mohan here on the occasion of his role in
the panel presenting that important WHO report on traffic and injuries.
Since it also touches on something that keeps coming up in my work,
observations and international exchanges.
And since I have yet to get my arms around the issues, I would at least
like to share with you in the form of a handful of riddles, conundrums,
and puzzlements which I now put before you in my growing perplexity. And
to which you may have some answers. Or, better yet, paths toward
answers.
1. Is it too much to say that the massive introduction of low cost
(motorized) two (three) wheelers into the traffic stream in city after
mega city around the world is, in a phrase, CHANGING EVERYTHING IN THE
DOMAIN OF TRANSPORT POLICY AND PRACTICE ?
2. Might it be that their diminutive surface areas (street-take,
parking-take) and behaviour in the traffic stream is totally out of line
with everything the transport and traffic planners ever learned in
school and have practiced in almost all cities of the world? (Among
thousands of anomalous examples one recent case from just across the
Channel: the utter inability (thus far) of the London Congestion
Charging team to deal with motorized two-wheelers in their scheme. And
that's just a (relatively) simple case).
3. Another anomaly that sets traditional transportation thinking in
its head: these buzzing belching flying creatures are creating
situations in which suddenly private transport (door to door, etc.) is
both cheaper and faster than public transport. Thus they are undermining
the usual arguments for subsidy to public carriers. And of course the
market, meaning that we have more empty (or empty-ish) taxpayer
subsidized buses. Ouch!
4. And they (now we are mainly into what we are calling here 'bike
taxis' but much of this applies as well to all motorized cycles in
cities) are dangerous, dirty, uncontrollable, prone to corruption of
divers types, etc.
5. And what about women, shoppers, children, the elderly, the
infirm, etc. who are not necessarily easy customers for these services?
Do we simply forget about them? (As we often have in the past.)
6. But . . . in places of high unemployment. "Bike Taxis" and the
like offer income earning possibilities to poor young people (and where
you rather have them on a motorbike or throwing torches at Government
House. It is a choice after all.)
7. From the usual formal planning and policy perspective in most
places at least, these gizmos simply do not exist. (And yet if you look
out on the street, as Galileo said: e pur si muove. which with your
permission I will translate to: "And yet they move".
8. And when they do (finally) come into the lagged sights of the
indolent policy makers (usually as a result of some kind of press
wake-up call), the knee-jerk reaction is all too often either (a) to ban
them (whereby all the problems conveniently disappear) and/or (b) to
"control" them. (But certainly not to understand them. am I not right in
this?) Both these reactions are, as we can see in city after city, not
very productive from the vantage of sustainable development and social
justice, or even simple systemic efficiency out there on the street.
9. Should those of us who care about these things continue to leave
them in the hands of impatient administrators who decide one day to
instruct the police to toss all the becas into the ocean. Or, more
often, just to stay under the desk and pretend that it does not exist
and will go away.
10. So where does this bring us? To deal with this brave new world,
should we just throw away all the old transport dogmas and designs, and
simply rejigger the whole system around two wheelers?
11. Or can we continue to patch and band-aid here and there in city
after city and hope to get good results?
12. Or do we have to start to create a new multi-level Third World City
transportation paradigm with new classes of vehicles and street users to
be brought into the formal planning lens?
13. Suppose for the moment that we limit our attention to all this from
an Asian perceptive. (We can then later take what we have learned and
apply it to the other parts of the world in which his new transportation
paradigm is emerging.)
14. We are talking about HUGE NUMBERS. And a process that is already
well engaged.
15. Anybody mention Kyoto?
16. Maybe a good starting place in this clearly much needed rethinking
of transport in cities is to step back and ask (as Dinesh suggested):
WHAT IS A STREET ANYWAY?
17. Is it a place meant for cars? Are all streets in a city alike? Do
we need to have more gradations in terms of transport types to
accommodate?
18. And what about the important non-transport functions of streets as
public spaces? As meeting places? As venues for peddlers, hucksters,
hawkers? Places to rest or sleep? Uses that put in Jane Jacobs'
wonderful words "eyes on the street", public presence that act to temper
violence and personal attack?
What I am trying to say that while cities around the world are de facto
reinventing transport, those of us who care should now get to work to
develop new paradigms, tools and visions of how all this newness can be
better understood and put to better use.
Are these things that we should be talking about here? And as part of
this seeing what we might do to increase consciousness of the issues at
stake and somehow, somewhere figuring out how to advance this important
agenda?
Thank you for your patience. And for your ideas.
Eric
The New Mobility Agenda at http://newmobility.org
The New Mobility Forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WorldTransport/
The Commons: Open Society Sustainability Initiative
Le Frene, 8/10 rue Joseph Bara, 75006 Paris, France
Tel: +331 4326 1323 Mobile: +336 8096 7879
24 hour Fax/Voicemail hotline: +33 (1) 53 01 28 96
IP Videoconference: 81.65.50.63
Email: postmaster@ecoplan.org
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From townsend at alcor.concordia.ca Wed Aug 25 23:11:43 2004
From: townsend at alcor.concordia.ca (Craig Townsend)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 10:11:43 -0400
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
In-Reply-To: <24469.1093416113@www50.gmx.net>
References: <6.1.1.1.0.20040824172508.019fd770@alcor.concordia.ca>
<24469.1093416113@www50.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.0.20040825095454.019cc0b8@alcor.concordia.ca>
Thanks Hung,
Just a few clarifications.
1. Regarding the fuel consumption: I am my self a motorcyclist, I have a
>normal Japanese moped (HONDA DREAM II 100 cc). Every week I have to pay
>about VND 12.000 (80 US Cent) for gasoline (about 2 litter), the total trip
>length is aboout 120-150 km/week. So, I guest that you will have your own
>calculation with your car. So, what is cheaper?. In addition, I need only
>1m2 for parking this MC.
I was thinking of all modes of transport (walking, cycling, public bus,
minibus, car, taxi, railway, busway, etc) and not just comparing private
motorbikes and private cars, and all costs direct (vehicle purchase costs,
vehicle operating costs, costs of infrastructure) and indirect costs
(accidents, air and noise pollution, severance effects of infrastructure,
costs of using non-renewable resources etc). I was also thinking about the
costs etc of the entire transport system and not just individual vehicles.
(e.g. similar to the difference between fuel-efficient cities and fuel
efficient cars, see Newman and Kenworthy, 1989).
>4. Again, I would like to bring the social attitude to add into your
>discussion. In Singapore, the current thinking of people is different from
>Thai or Vietnam. As you may recorgnized that after 40 years of many
>Congestion Reducing Efforts, the pedestrian zone is just adopted in
>Singapore. So, I guest that the mind of people in Singapore in 1970 or 1980
Yes, Singapore has been on a very different path in its urban transport
development since the early 1970s. But I see no evidence that
decision-makers in Bangkok or Hanoi are taking similar actions and
decisions to those made in Singapore 30 years ago, so I doubt that it is
just a case of all cities following the same path (see Paul Barter's 1999
PhD thesis on this topic).
>is similar to Thai and Vietnamese today. I am agree that there are some ones
>in Thailand or Vietnam may have better attitude toward NMV, but they are few
>and have no power. On the other hand, the son of Primeminister Phan Van Khai
>started his car business in 2003. So, what should we do?
As well-connected and educated planners, activists, students and teachers
we should in our daily practice point out these conflicts of interest of
those in power and seek to address the interests of those with less power!
We should help people in our communities envision what they want for the
future and the actions that we can take together to make it a reality.
Regards,
Craig Townsend
From kviethung at gmx.de Wed Aug 25 23:21:26 2004
From: kviethung at gmx.de (Viet Hung Khuat)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 16:21:26 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
References: <6.1.1.1.0.20040825095454.019cc0b8@alcor.concordia.ca>
Message-ID: <2549.1093443686@www56.gmx.net>
Dear Craig,
1. I did also the full cost comparision between MC and Bus in teh Hanoi and
HCM City Bus project. I understand that the Bus has some advatanges on this
evaluation. However, We have to think on a real conditions of the Hanoi or
Bangkok environment. Then I agree with you that the decision makers in VN
and Thailand are lack of the vision as the Singaporean ones.
So, what should we do?
> Thanks Hung,
>
> Just a few clarifications.
>
> 1. Regarding the fuel consumption: I am my self a motorcyclist, I have a
> >normal Japanese moped (HONDA DREAM II 100 cc). Every week I have to pay
> >about VND 12.000 (80 US Cent) for gasoline (about 2 litter), the total
> trip
> >length is aboout 120-150 km/week. So, I guest that you will have your own
> >calculation with your car. So, what is cheaper?. In addition, I need only
> >1m2 for parking this MC.
>
> I was thinking of all modes of transport (walking, cycling, public bus,
> minibus, car, taxi, railway, busway, etc) and not just comparing private
> motorbikes and private cars, and all costs direct (vehicle purchase costs,
> vehicle operating costs, costs of infrastructure) and indirect costs
> (accidents, air and noise pollution, severance effects of infrastructure,
> costs of using non-renewable resources etc). I was also thinking about the
> costs etc of the entire transport system and not just individual vehicles.
> (e.g. similar to the difference between fuel-efficient cities and fuel
> efficient cars, see Newman and Kenworthy, 1989).
>
> >4. Again, I would like to bring the social attitude to add into your
> >discussion. In Singapore, the current thinking of people is different
> from
> >Thai or Vietnam. As you may recorgnized that after 40 years of many
> >Congestion Reducing Efforts, the pedestrian zone is just adopted in
> >Singapore. So, I guest that the mind of people in Singapore in 1970 or
> 1980
>
> Yes, Singapore has been on a very different path in its urban transport
> development since the early 1970s. But I see no evidence that
> decision-makers in Bangkok or Hanoi are taking similar actions and
> decisions to those made in Singapore 30 years ago, so I doubt that it is
> just a case of all cities following the same path (see Paul Barter's 1999
> PhD thesis on this topic).
>
> >is similar to Thai and Vietnamese today. I am agree that there are some
> ones
> >in Thailand or Vietnam may have better attitude toward NMV, but they are
> few
> >and have no power. On the other hand, the son of Primeminister Phan Van
> Khai
> >started his car business in 2003. So, what should we do?
>
> As well-connected and educated planners, activists, students and teachers
> we should in our daily practice point out these conflicts of interest of
> those in power and seek to address the interests of those with less power!
> We should help people in our communities envision what they want for the
> future and the actions that we can take together to make it a reality.
>
> Regards,
>
> Craig Townsend
>
>
>
>
--
****************************************
Khuat Viet Hung, M.Eng
(C/o: Prof. Manfred Boltze)
Institut fuer Verkehr, TU Darmstadt
Petersenstrasse 30, 64287 Darmstadt, Deutschland
Tel. : + 49-6151-16 2026
Fax: + 49-6151-16 2045
NEU: Bis zu 10 GB Speicher für e-mails & Dateien!
1 GB bereits bei GMX FreeMail http://www.gmx.net/de/go/mail
From townsend at alcor.concordia.ca Wed Aug 25 23:34:26 2004
From: townsend at alcor.concordia.ca (Craig Townsend)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 10:34:26 -0400
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
In-Reply-To: <0b9c01c48a74$704b29b0$a62b4fca@Anil>
References: <20040824035758.A4E4B2DE2F@mx-list.jca.ne.jp>
<13688.1093353168@www15.gmx.net>
<6.1.1.1.0.20040824172508.019fd770@alcor.concordia.ca>
<0b9c01c48a74$704b29b0$a62b4fca@Anil>
Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.0.20040825101228.01a140e0@alcor.concordia.ca>
Anil,
At 03:22 AM 25/08/2004, you wrote:
>I saw clearly two groups of people on this topic. One for the bike-taxis
>and another against it. However, both of them lack solid research logic.
>We are only selling our arguments and observations till now.
I'm not sure that the discussion lacks logic, but we definitely lack data
and detailed studies on specific cities and comparing cities. To some
extent the discussion is now more generally on the topic of motorcycles in
cities rather than just motorcycle taxis. I don't think that the discussion
is so polarized into "for" and "against" camps - we're just exploring the
very real advantages and disadvantages of motorcycles whether as taxis or
private means of travel.
>
>Let's keep this debate going for some time (see how far we would go). Now,
>I am trying to summarise what we have discussed about bike-taxis in last
>few days. Arguments - for and against it. I will post them after
>completion. May be we could then lead towards some research on this issue,
>as mentioned my Jonathan.
I agree that there is a need for a research agenda, followed by funding!
>
>At this point, could anyone provide me the history of these bike-taxis?
>Like; are they operating in these cities from the very beginning or they
>have been introduced afterwards. There might be some literatures
>justifying its introduction. It would be very interesting to learn, why
>they were introduced? There might be some thought on these bike-taxis by
>the policymakers at that time.
>
>Anticipating some literatures, not just arguments.
I seem to remember coming across a paper from Jonathan's colleague Prof.
Yordphol at AIT on motorcycles in Bangkok.
In Cervero's overview of informal transport he looks at informal transport
services offered by vans, motorcycles, and pedicabs in Bangkok, but not on
the environmental and social impacts which seem to be the concern of our
current discussion. (Cervero, Robert. 2000. Informal Transport in the
Developing World. Nairobi: United Nations Centre for Human Settlements
(Habitat)).
Vuchic and Litman compare the costs of various modes including motorcycles
in developed country cities (in both cases motorcycles come out as a high
cost mode because of the high rate of accidents and associated external costs):
Vuchic, Vukan R. 1999. Transportation for Livable Cities. New Brunswick,
New Jersey: Center for Urban Policy Research.
Litman in his work which is posted online (e.g., see
http://www.vtpi.org/tca/tca06.pdf) compares the costs of various modes.
Late last year here on Sustran there was reference made to a document "A
comparison study on motorcycle traffic development in some Asian countries
? case of Taiwan, Malaysia and Vietnam", although I just glanced at it and
there isn't much which would help us with the current discussion of the
relative costs and benefits of motorcycles in cities of the developing
world.
http://www.easts.info/Awards/ICRA-ComparisonStudyMotorcycleDevelopment.pdf
Regards,
Craig Townsend
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From sujit at vsnl.com Wed Aug 25 22:03:50 2004
From: sujit at vsnl.com (Sujit Patwardhan)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 18:33:50 +0530
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
In-Reply-To: <20040824181606.728E92C5D4@mx-list.jca.ne.jp>
References: <13232.1093360924@www11.gmx.net>
<20040824181606.728E92C5D4@mx-list.jca.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.0.20040825182619.02d5e060@mail.vsnl.com>
25 August 2004
Dear Karl,
Very well put. I agree with you 100%
--
Sujit
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sujit Patwardhan
PARISAR
"Yamuna", ICS Colony,
Ganeshkhind Road,
Pune 411007
Telephone: 255 37955
Email: or
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
At 10:47 PM 8/24/2004, you wrote:
>Thanks for the feedback and discussion.... Wanted to query one idea. Just
>because a service is poor, or unregulated, or unsafe, or environmentally
>unsound, does that necessarily mean it must be 'good for the poor'? Why
>can't the 'poor' have a high quality transit service with high quality
>pedestrian & bicycle access and supported by supplementary options such as
>motorcycle taxis where needed?
>
>For example: in Pattaya, Thailand, 'the poor' have for years been held
>ransom by the paratransit (van and motorcycle taxi) mafia. Earlier this year
>for 3 months a quality bus service was introduced, a small circular route
>featuring three 25 seater minibuses, a contra-flow bus lane, timetable,
>passenger information, comfortable seating, low emissions, a polite & well
>trained driver, and other innovations focusing on providing a good service.
>In short, everything the paratransit service wasn't. The service operated
>for 3 months, charging a flat fare of 5 baht (about US$0.12). Actually they
>wanted to provide it for free, as the full cost of the service was covered
>by advertising on the bus. But the paratransit mafia wouldn't let them. It
>was very popular with the locals, and was used for more than 3,000 trips
>daily. The strong focus of the service was on meeting needs of low income
>locals. Service was offered late into the night and they wanted to operate
>the service up to 2.30am but again the paratransit mafia intervened to
>insist they stopped operating at midnight (the bars close at 2am). They
>wanted to extend the service to more residential areas, and to extend it
>beyond the initial 3 month period, but again were stopped by the paratransit
>mafia and their govt proxies. This is the same paratransit that simply turfs
>out local passengers if a wealthy tourist happens along. The paratransit
>combination of vans and motorcycle taxis often (not always, often they are
>great) offers a similarly high cost and poor level of service for low income
>residents in Chiang Mai, but attempts to provide better services are
>resisted by the van/ mc taxi mafia.
>
>I don't go along with Jonathan's idea that walking and cycling is
>inappropriate for Bangkok and neither does a leading Governorial candidate,
>Apirak Kosayodhin, who is campaigning on a platform of Bus Rapid Transit,
>and wide walkways and bicycle lanes along all new roads (elections on 29th
>August...).
>
>Regards, Karl
>
>PS: Guangzhou by the way is banning motorcycles from next year. Main concern
>was security, they perceived a high level of crime associated with
>motorcycles. Another concern is the way the motorcycles taxis park and ride
>all over the walkways. This has led to a sudden spurt in bicycle purchases,
>as m/c riders for the moment at least go back to bicycles.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: sustran-discuss-bounces+karl=dnet.net.id@list.jca.apc.org
>[mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+karl=dnet.net.id@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf
>Of Viet Hung Khuat
>Sent: Tuesday, 24 August 2004 10:22 PM
>To: Anil K. Raut; Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport
>Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
>
>Hallo Anil,
>It is nice to see yuor dicussion. However, we should consider some points as
>follows:
>1. The MC Taxis in BKK are mainly serving the Thai who really have lower
>income than any foregn tourists but high quaily in Thai language.
>2. In between 20-50 years the city like Hanoi, New Dehli or som other cities
>have no money to provide enough Mass Transit Serivice.
>What are the alternatives? and What is the cheapeast one?
>Have a nice day,
>HUNG
> > Very interesting debate. There are many points, I need to address on
> > the discussions.
> >
> > First: Jonathan. You mentioned the positive role of these 'bike-taxis'
> > on the streets of Bangkok. This was what I assumed when I saw them on
> > the streets of Bangkok. I was even trying to ride one. But I was not
> > familiar
>with
> > the city and these drivers were not good enough on English. So there
> > was a high chance that I could be taken to unwanted area. I gave up the
>idea.
> >
> > Another point is: I am not talking about the higher share of these
> > bike-taxis on public transport. There is obviously role for
>mass-transport. I just
> > wanted to see what could be role of these bike-taxis on a balanced
> > modal-split. I am not pushing this forward but it is good have idea on
>what is
> > going on around the world and importantly WHY it is happening, what
> > are
>the
> > driving forces. We could then localise these knowledge and plan our
> > city accordingly.
> >
> > I agree with Jonathan's point. 'A bike operating on demand in a
> > suburban area can be considerably more efficient than buses
> > circulating most of the day almost empty.' This was also my
> > observation which forced me to think about the possibility of
> > bike-taxis. I am not saying; mass-transport will consume less fuel than
>bike. I was intended to say what you mentioned.
>Bike
> > taxi can consume less fuel (and space) than a car-taxi with almost
> > most of time with single occupancy. BUT, there is certain role of mass
>transit.
>Bike
> > taxi should not be alternative to the mass-transit rather to their
> > supplement.
> >
> > Second: Mr. Mehta. I do agree with you in all ways. Yes, the oil price
> > has been going up and this has already creating problem in our country
> > in terms of revenue. We are advocating for alternative energy (which
> > are
>available
> > within our country- hydropower) and its use in transportation sector.
> > Till now electric vehicles are bit costly than fossil fuel vehicles.
> > But I guess a time will come, when the fossil fuel price will be
> > higher than
>electric
> > and we could easily promote electric vehicles. This is what the market
> > drive. At this time, we can not just push the entrepreneurs to go for
>electric
> > vehicles. They will obviously go for low cost options. However, we
> > have already more than 600 electric three-wheelers in Kathmandu. And
> > possibly
>in
> > future the share of electric transport will be increased (trolley, trams).
> >
> > But as I said earlier, this was what I intended to look for various
> > options. Our goal is the effective transport management with less
> > emission overall. For that we need to explore both the long and short
> > term
>possibilities.
> >
> > Karl: Thanks for adding more point to understand the Bangkok
> > bike-taxis. I know they were being parked within the walkways. But
> > don't you think this is a management problem rather than the
> > particular mode? I would love to know more about the Bangkok taxis
> > from you. If there has been any study on the impact on environment,
>transport management due to these taxis.
> >
> > The discussion is being interesting. Any additional thoughts????
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Anil K. Raut
> > ----------------------------
> > Anil K. Raut
> > P. O. Box 8846
> > Kathmandu, NEPAL
> > E-mail: ankraut@wlink.com.np; anil@environmentnepal.com.np
> > Tel: 977-1-4232761 (Res.)/977-9841233941 (Mobile)
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Karl Fjellstrom
> > To: 'Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport'
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 8:44 AM
> > Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
> >
> >
> > One of the downsides is that motorcycle taxis tend to lounge around
> > and park
> > on walkways, and ride on walkways for at least part of their journey,
> > honking aggressively to clear away those bothersome pedestrians.
> > Further,
> > the areas they congregate in tend to be more concentrated areas of
> > pedestrian activity such as major bus stops, markets, etc. In
> > Bangkok it's
> > common for them to cordon off areas near a bus stop to the detriment of
> > waiting bus passengers - e.g. in front of Pata Pinklao. Not to
> > mention the
> > noise and air pollution they contribute, often in areas with lots of
> > people
> > which already suffer noise and air pollution (there's been an
> > interesting
> > debate on noise pollution recently in Bangkok following data
> > released by the
> > Env Ministry).
> >
> > Another consideration is that many of the motorcylce taxi trips in
> > Bangkok
> > are within an easy walking distance - if only there was a navigable,
> > pleasant walkway. If conditions for short distance trips by walking were
> > improved, the demand for motorcycle taxis would diminish. Also,
> > where trips
> > are too long to walk, bicycles could easily substitute for
> > motorcycle taxis
> > for many trips, if only secure parking areas and other forms of
> > encouragement were provided for cycling. Such measures need not cost
> > a lot.
> >
> > But there seems to be little interesting in encouraging alternatives to
> > motorcycle taxis, and this leads to the point that the motorcycle taxi
> > industry is also a major contributor to corruption, by most estimates
> > contributing tens of millions of dollars each year in pay-offs to
> > police and
> > others. It's great to have these motorcycle taxi services in
> > outlying areas
> > where otherwise no other service might be available, but the real
> > issue is
> > their presence in congested urban areas. They can play a valuable
> > role as
> > Jonathan outlines. However, at least in Bangkok which I'm more familiar
> > with, encouraging walking and cycling and improved bus routings as an
> > alternative to motorcycle taxis wherever possible, and strictly
> > prohibiting
> > motorcycle taxis from parking or driving on walkways, would have many
> > benefits.
> >
> > Regards, Karl
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: sustran-discuss-bounces+karl=dnet.net.id@list.jca.apc.org
> > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+karl=dnet.net.id@list.jca.apc.org]
> > On Behalf
> > Of Jonathan E. D. Richmond
> > Sent: Monday, 23 August 2004 11:18 PM
> > To: Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport
> > Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
> >
> >
> > It is a mistake to assume that official public transport will
> > necessarily
> > result in the consumption of less fuel than motorbike taxis or that
> > it can
> > replace them in many instances. A bike operating on demand in a suburban
> > area can be considerably more efficient than buses circulating most
> > of the
> > day almost empty.
> >
> > In fact, many motorbike services do operate as public transport --
> > charging
> > about the same fare but providing a level of frequency not possible with
> > buses. For low-income people living in outlying suburbs, there may be no
> > alternative if density is inufficient for more formal operations --
> > in fact,
> > in many cases, the bikes actually operate from bus stops and provide
> > services to locations not served by buses.
> >
> > So we have to be careful about making generalizations.
> >
> > Note that in my case the alternative to taking a motorbike, which I
> > frequently use to complete a journey after a bus or train ride,
> > would be to
> > take a regular taxi for the whole journey as it would simply take
> > too long
> > otherwise.
> >
> > --jonathan
> >
> > -----
> >
> > Jonathan E. D. Richmond 02 524-5510
> > (office)
> > Visiting Fellow Intl.: 662 524-5510
> > Transportation Engineering program
> > School of Civil Engineering, Room N260B 02 524-8257 (home)
> > Asian Institute of Technology Intl.: 662 524-8257
> > PO Box 4
> > Klong Luang, Pathumthani 12120 02 524-5509 (fax)
> > Thailand Intl: 662 524-5509
> >
> > e-mail: richmond@ait.ac.th Secretary: Ms. Nisarat
> > Hansuksa
> > richmond@alum.mit.edu 02 524-6051
> > Intl: 662 524-6051
> > http://the-tech.mit.edu/~richmond/
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>--
>****************************************
>Khuat Viet Hung, M.Eng
>(C/o: Prof. Manfred Boltze)
>Institut fuer Verkehr, TU Darmstadt
>Petersenstrasse 30, 64287 Darmstadt, Deutschland Tel. : + 49-6151-16 2026
>Fax: + 49-6151-16 2045
>
>NEU: Bis zu 10 GB Speicher f|r e-mails & Dateien!
>1 GB bereits bei GMX FreeMail http://www.gmx.net/de/go/mail
From etts at indigo.ie Thu Aug 26 00:11:52 2004
From: etts at indigo.ie (Brendan Finn)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 16:11:52 +0100
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
References: <20040824035758.A4E4B2DE2F@mx-list.jca.ne.jp><13688.1093353168@www15.gmx.net><6.1.1.1.0.20040824172508.019fd770@alcor.concordia.ca><0b9c01c48a74$704b29b0$a62b4fca@Anil>
<6.1.1.1.0.20040825101228.01a140e0@alcor.concordia.ca>
Message-ID: <009901c48ab5$da7682d0$0101a8c0@fujitsu83p69tb>
I've really enjoyed this discussion, as well as Jonathon's great descriptions of the reality.
While the focus has been on bike-taxi for urban areas, I came across an article on bike-taxis in rural areas in Africa. Some of the material may be of interest, and perhaps the author (Gina Porter) has either done further research or can direct interested persons to someone else who has.
World Transport Policy and Practice, Volume 8, Issue 4
Gina Porter
"Improving mobility and access for the off-road rural poor through intermediate means of transport"
www.eco-logica.co.uk/WTPPhome.html
Hope this is of use.
With best wishes,
Brendan Finn.
_______________________________________________________________________
Contact details are : e-mail : etts@indigo.ie tel : +353.87.2530286
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Townsend
To: Anil K. Raut ; Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 3:34 PM
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
Anil,
At 03:22 AM 25/08/2004, you wrote:
I saw clearly two groups of people on this topic. One for the bike-taxis and another against it. However, both of them lack solid research logic. We are only selling our arguments and observations till now.
I'm not sure that the discussion lacks logic, but we definitely lack data and detailed studies on specific cities and comparing cities. To some extent the discussion is now more generally on the topic of motorcycles in cities rather than just motorcycle taxis. I don't think that the discussion is so polarized into "for" and "against" camps - we're just exploring the very real advantages and disadvantages of motorcycles whether as taxis or private means of travel.
Let's keep this debate going for some time (see how far we would go). Now, I am trying to summarise what we have discussed about bike-taxis in last few days. Arguments - for and against it. I will post them after completion. May be we could then lead towards some research on this issue, as mentioned my Jonathan.
I agree that there is a need for a research agenda, followed by funding!
At this point, could anyone provide me the history of these bike-taxis? Like; are they operating in these cities from the very beginning or they have been introduced afterwards. There might be some literatures justifying its introduction. It would be very interesting to learn, why they were introduced? There might be some thought on these bike-taxis by the policymakers at that time.
Anticipating some literatures, not just arguments.
I seem to remember coming across a paper from Jonathan's colleague Prof. Yordphol at AIT on motorcycles in Bangkok.
In Cervero's overview of informal transport he looks at informal transport services offered by vans, motorcycles, and pedicabs in Bangkok, but not on the environmental and social impacts which seem to be the concern of our current discussion. (Cervero, Robert. 2000. Informal Transport in the Developing World. Nairobi: United Nations Centre for Human Settlements (Habitat)).
Vuchic and Litman compare the costs of various modes including motorcycles in developed country cities (in both cases motorcycles come out as a high cost mode because of the high rate of accidents and associated external costs):
Vuchic, Vukan R. 1999. Transportation for Livable Cities. New Brunswick, New Jersey: Center for Urban Policy Research.
Litman in his work which is posted online (e.g., see http://www.vtpi.org/tca/tca06.pdf) compares the costs of various modes.
Late last year here on Sustran there was reference made to a document "A comparison study on motorcycle traffic development in some Asian countries - case of Taiwan, Malaysia and Vietnam", although I just glanced at it and there isn't much which would help us with the current discussion of the relative costs and benefits of motorcycles in cities of the developing world. http://www.easts.info/Awards/ICRA-ComparisonStudyMotorcycleDevelopment.pdf
Regards,
Craig Townsend
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From townsend at alcor.concordia.ca Thu Aug 26 01:09:08 2004
From: townsend at alcor.concordia.ca (Craig Townsend)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 12:09:08 -0400
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
In-Reply-To: <2549.1093443686@www56.gmx.net>
References: <6.1.1.1.0.20040825095454.019cc0b8@alcor.concordia.ca>
<2549.1093443686@www56.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.0.20040825113644.019d28b8@alcor.concordia.ca>
Dear Hung,
I'm not sure who "we" is, but in my opinion there is a need for more
research on of motorcycles in cities of the developing world and
particularly Asia. There appears to be a need for comparable data on the
"the real conditions" of the costs of motorcycles in comparison to all
modes and to their role and how public policies could be designed to
mitigate the costs while expanding the benefits. On a more practical level,
funding will be required. As Jonathan suggests, there is unlikely to be
interest from national or city governments so it would probably have to be
research funding in conjunction with a university or an international
organization. Personally, I doubt I will pursue this further, but I hope
that someone out there may run with it.
Obviously, if PMs or Cabinet ministers have personal financial stakes in
automobile or road-building industries or oil companies, it is unlikely
they are going to adopt policies that would slow the growth in motor
vehicles and the consumption of fuel. In that case, maybe lobbying for
conflict of interest legislation and exposing the business dealings of the
powerful to the media would be a better use of the resources of those of us
seeking urban transport systems which promote the well-being of the
less-advantaged and the low status people. This will be a big challenge in
developing cities such as Bangkok where very few have very much, but it is
also an ongoing challenge in the cities of the industrialized world.
Craig
At 10:21 AM 25/08/2004, you wrote:
>Dear Craig,
>1. I did also the full cost comparision between MC and Bus in teh Hanoi and
>HCM City Bus project. I understand that the Bus has some advatanges on this
>evaluation. However, We have to think on a real conditions of the Hanoi or
>Bangkok environment. Then I agree with you that the decision makers in VN
>and Thailand are lack of the vision as the Singaporean ones.
>So, what should we do?
From richmond at alum.mit.edu Thu Aug 26 01:09:28 2004
From: richmond at alum.mit.edu (Jonathan E. D. Richmond)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 23:09:28 +0700 (SE Asia Standard Time)
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
In-Reply-To: <009901c48ab5$da7682d0$0101a8c0@fujitsu83p69tb>
References: DEFANGED[10]:<20040824035758.A4E4B2DE2F@mx-list.jca.ne.jp><13688.1093353168@www15.gmx.net><6.1.1.1.0.20040824172508.019fd770@alcor.concordia.ca><0b9c01c48a74$704b29b0
" " $a62b4fca@Anil>
<6.1.1.1.0.20040825101228.01a140e0@alcor.concordia.ca>
<009901c48ab5$da7682d0$0101a8c0@fujitsu83p69tb>
Message-ID:
Thank you Brendan, and I have by no means told you all the stories!
One on my motorbike drivers in Phnom Penh had just almost killed me by
swerving sharply across and alongside the opposing flow of traffic to
avoid a policeman he'd spotted (the driver was unlicensed). As if this
wasn't enough excitement for one day, he next offered me a prostitute.
"No thanks; I don't want to die," I told him, as there seems to be no other
understanding of why a rich Westerner would not want a little extra
company. "$10 for a nice girl," he said. "Clean." I wasn't moved.
"AIDS," I replied.
The driver had already told me he was saving for college, but I wondered
how effective he was at pursuing this goal. "And do you ever hire a
prostitute?" I asked. Yes, he did, he replied. Now, $10 is a lot of money
for a motorcycle driver to spend on anything, but maybe he gets a
nonmonetary commission for bringing in Westerners. I wasn't willing to
test out this theory, however, even for the benefit of the SUSTRAN list,
and confirmed to him that he was still returning me to my hotel.
I will say you get to experience a lot of ordinary life from the back of a
motorbike. I have stopped en route and visited shops and homes. I have
been taken to the houses of drivers; in one case, I ended up going
to a pharmacy with one of them to help sort out what antibiotics he
needed for a small infection (and I ended up paying for them!); there are
three drivers (all from Cambodia) with whom I'm in occasional email
contact. One of them asked me to lend him money to buy a car. Er.... I
don't even have a car myself!
--Jonathan
-----
Jonathan E. D. Richmond 02 524-5510 (office)
Visiting Fellow Intl.: 662 524-5510
Transportation Engineering program
School of Civil Engineering, Room N260B 02 524-8257 (home)
Asian Institute of Technology Intl.: 662 524-8257
PO Box 4
Klong Luang, Pathumthani 12120 02 524-5509 (fax)
Thailand Intl: 662 524-5509
e-mail: richmond@ait.ac.th Secretary: Ms. Nisarat Hansuksa
richmond@alum.mit.edu 02 524-6051
Intl: 662 524-6051
http://the-tech.mit.edu/~richmond/
From sri at pn1.vsnl.net.in Thu Aug 26 14:12:18 2004
From: sri at pn1.vsnl.net.in (J Krishnayya)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 10:42:18 +0530 (India Standard Time)
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi' -" E pur si muove"
References: <011401c48a8f$42f4ea80$6501a8c0@home>
Message-ID: <412D7132.000007.88651@SRI10>
Dear Eric,
Thank you for the thoughtful note. I agree that motor cycles are a recent
mass phenomena which our understanding of "traffic" does not really
encompass.
Here in Pune, for example we have 40x the number of mc that existed 20 years
ago.
One possible innovative way of thinking about the role of mc is the fact
that they are used largely by working persons to get from home to workploace
with no stops (often a 15 km journey), or by college students. This might
constitute perhaps 70% of mc users.
Would it help if we created Large (Urban) Bus Stations, with attached
parking for mc (users would ride from home) from where express (ac?) busses
would go to interchange points in the Industrial areas (from where a feeder
bus system would provide frequent links to each plant), as well as to other
focal points such as colleges, "downtown" etc. These Bus Stations would
have book shops, coffee shops, etc. Many of our long-distance bus terminals
already are like this, except that they are too crowded, wet, dirty, etc..
These bus stations could be leased or franchised to private parties who
might then compete to keep them attractive.
Just a thought.
J G Krishnayya
==============
Prof J G Krishnayya
Executive Director,
Systems Research Institute
17-A, Gultekdi,
Pune 411 037
+91-20-2426 0323
geoconcept@vsnl.com
jkrishnayya@yahoo.com
-------Original Message-------
From: Eric.Britton@ecoplan.org; Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport
Date: 08/25/04 16:03:18
To: Sustran-discuss@jca.ax.apc.org
Cc: anil@environmentnepal.com.np; mmurga@compuserve.com; John
Whitelegg@phonecoop.coop
Subject: [sustran] Information on 'Bike Taxi' -" E pur si muove"
?A riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma.? -- Sir Winston Churchill,
October 1, 1939.
These fine, instructive and yes! in the final analysis truly and
fundamentally puzzling exchanges in these last days bring me back to
something that I have been meaning to share with all of you for some time.
This is in part prompted by conversations on this topic during a recent
visit here of Dinesh Mohan here on the occasion of his role in the panel
presenting that important WHO report on traffic and injuries. Since it also
touches on something that keeps coming up in my work, observations and
international exchanges.
And since I have yet to get my arms around the issues, I would at least like
to share with you in the form of a handful of riddles, conundrums, and
puzzlements which I now put before you in my growing perplexity. And to
which you may have some answers. Or, better yet, paths toward answers.
1. Is it too much to say that the massive introduction of low cost
(motorized) two (three) wheelers into the traffic stream in city after mega
city around the world is, in a phrase, CHANGING EVERYTHING IN THE DOMAIN OF
TRANSPORT POLICY AND PRACTICE ?
2. Might it be that their diminutive surface areas (street-take,
parking-take) and behaviour in the traffic stream is totally out of line
with everything the transport and traffic planners ever learned in school
and have practiced in almost all cities of the world? (Among thousands of
anomalous examples one recent case from just across the Channel: the utter
inability (thus far) of the London Congestion Charging team to deal with
motorized two-wheelers in their scheme. And that?s just a (relatively)
simple case).
3. Another anomaly that sets traditional transportation thinking in its
head: these buzzing belching flying creatures are creating situations in
which suddenly private transport (door to door, etc.) is both cheaper and
faster than public transport. Thus they are undermining the usual arguments
for subsidy to public carriers. And of course the market, meaning that we
have more empty (or empty-ish) taxpayer subsidized buses. Ouch!
4. And they (now we are mainly into what we are calling here ?bike
taxis? but much of this applies as well to all motorized cycles in cities)
are dangerous, dirty, uncontrollable, prone to corruption of divers types,
etc.
5. And what about women, shoppers, children, the elderly, the infirm,
etc. who are not necessarily easy customers for these services? Do we simply
forget about them? (As we often have in the past.)
6. But . . . in places of high unemployment. ?Bike Taxis? and the like
offer income earning possibilities to poor young people (and where you
rather have them on a motorbike or throwing torches at Government House. It
is a choice after all.)
7. From the usual formal planning and policy perspective in most places
at least, these gizmos simply do not exist. (And yet if you look out on the
street, as Galileo said: e pur si muove
which with your permission I will
translate to: ?And yet they move?.
8. And when they do (finally) come into the lagged sights of the
indolent policy makers (usually as a result of some kind of press wake-up
call), the knee-jerk reaction is all too often either (a) to ban them
(whereby all the problems conveniently disappear) and/or (b) to ?control?
them. (But certainly not to understand them
am I not right in this?) Both
these reactions are, as we can see in city after city, not very productive
from the vantage of sustainable development and social justice, or even
simple systemic efficiency out there on the street.
9. Should those of us who care about these things continue to leave
them in the hands of impatient administrators who decide one day to instruct
the police to toss all the becas into the ocean. Or, more often, just to
stay under the desk and pretend that it does not exist and will go away.
10. So where does this bring us? To deal with this brave new world, should
we just throw away all the old transport dogmas and designs, and simply
rejigger the whole system around two wheelers?
11. Or can we continue to patch and band-aid here and there in city after
city and hope to get good results?
12. Or do we have to start to create a new multi-level Third World City
transportation paradigm with new classes of vehicles and street users to be
brought into the formal planning lens?
13. Suppose for the moment that we limit our attention to all this from an
Asian perceptive. (We can then later take what we have learned and apply it
to the other parts of the world in which his new transportation paradigm is
emerging.)
14. We are talking about HUGE NUMBERS. And a process that is already well
engaged.
15. Anybody mention Kyoto?
16. Maybe a good starting place in this clearly much needed rethinking of
transport in cities is to step back and ask (as Dinesh suggested): WHAT IS A
STREET ANYWAY?
17. Is it a place meant for cars? Are all streets in a city alike? Do we
need to have more gradations in terms of transport types to accommodate?
18. And what about the important non-transport functions of streets as
public spaces? As meeting places? As venues for peddlers, hucksters,
hawkers? Places to rest or sleep? Uses that put in Jane Jacobs? wonderful
words ?eyes on the street?, public presence that act to temper violence and
personal attack?
What I am trying to say that while cities around the world are de facto
reinventing transport, those of us who care should now get to work to
develop new paradigms, tools and visions of how all this newness can be
better understood and put to better use.
Are these things that we should be talking about here? And as part of this
seeing what we might do to increase consciousness of the issues at stake and
somehow, somewhere figuring out how to advance this important agenda?
Thank you for your patience. And for your ideas.
Eric
The New Mobility Agenda at http://newmobility.org
The New Mobility Forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WorldTransport/
The Commons: Open Society Sustainability Initiative
Le Frene, 8/10 rue Joseph Bara, 75006 Paris, France
Tel: +331 4326 1323 Mobile: +336 8096 7879
24 hour Fax/Voicemail hotline: +33 (1) 53 01 28 96
IP Videoconference: 81.65.50.63
Email: postmaster@ecoplan.org
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From sri at pn1.vsnl.net.in Thu Aug 26 14:12:18 2004
From: sri at pn1.vsnl.net.in (J Krishnayya)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 10:42:18 +0530 (India Standard Time)
Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi' -" E pur si muove"
References: <011401c48a8f$42f4ea80$6501a8c0@home>
Message-ID: <412D7132.000007.88651@SRI10>
Dear Eric,
Thank you for the thoughtful note. I agree that motor cycles are a recent
mass phenomena which our understanding of "traffic" does not really
encompass.
Here in Pune, for example we have 40x the number of mc that existed 20 years
ago.
One possible innovative way of thinking about the role of mc is the fact
that they are used largely by working persons to get from home to workploace
with no stops (often a 15 km journey), or by college students. This might
constitute perhaps 70% of mc users.
Would it help if we created Large (Urban) Bus Stations, with attached
parking for mc (users would ride from home) from where express (ac?) busses
would go to interchange points in the Industrial areas (from where a feeder
bus system would provide frequent links to each plant), as well as to other
focal points such as colleges, "downtown" etc. These Bus Stations would
have book shops, coffee shops, etc. Many of our long-distance bus terminals
already are like this, except that they are too crowded, wet, dirty, etc..
These bus stations could be leased or franchised to private parties who
might then compete to keep them attractive.
Just a thought.
J G Krishnayya
==============
Prof J G Krishnayya
Executive Director,
Systems Research Institute
17-A, Gultekdi,
Pune 411 037
+91-20-2426 0323
geoconcept@vsnl.com
jkrishnayya@yahoo.com
-------Original Message-------
From: Eric.Britton@ecoplan.org; Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport
Date: 08/25/04 16:03:18
To: Sustran-discuss@jca.ax.apc.org
Cc: anil@environmentnepal.com.np; mmurga@compuserve.com; John
Whitelegg@phonecoop.coop
Subject: [sustran] Information on 'Bike Taxi' -" E pur si muove"
?A riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma.? -- Sir Winston Churchill,
October 1, 1939.
These fine, instructive and yes! in the final analysis truly and
fundamentally puzzling exchanges in these last days bring me back to
something that I have been meaning to share with all of you for some time.
This is in part prompted by conversations on this topic during a recent
visit here of Dinesh Mohan here on the occasion of his role in the panel
presenting that important WHO report on traffic and injuries. Since it also
touches on something that keeps coming up in my work, observations and
international exchanges.
And since I have yet to get my arms around the issues, I would at least like
to share with you in the form of a handful of riddles, conundrums, and
puzzlements which I now put before you in my growing perplexity. And to
which you may have some answers. Or, better yet, paths toward answers.
1. Is it too much to say that the massive introduction of low cost
(motorized) two (three) wheelers into the traffic stream in city after mega
city around the world is, in a phrase, CHANGING EVERYTHING IN THE DOMAIN OF
TRANSPORT POLICY AND PRACTICE ?
2. Might it be that their diminutive surface areas (street-take,
parking-take) and behaviour in the traffic stream is totally out of line
with everything the transport and traffic planners ever learned in school
and have practiced in almost all cities of the world? (Among thousands of
anomalous examples one recent case from just across the Channel: the utter
inability (thus far) of the London Congestion Charging team to deal with
motorized two-wheelers in their scheme. And that?s just a (relatively)
simple case).
3. Another anomaly that sets traditional transportation thinking in its
head: these buzzing belching flying creatures are creating situations in
which suddenly private transport (door to door, etc.) is both cheaper and
faster than public transport. Thus they are undermining the usual arguments
for subsidy to public carriers. And of course the market, meaning that we
have more empty (or empty-ish) taxpayer subsidized buses. Ouch!
4. And they (now we are mainly into what we are calling here ?bike
taxis? but much of this applies as well to all motorized cycles in cities)
are dangerous, dirty, uncontrollable, prone to corruption of divers types,
etc.
5. And what about women, shoppers, children, the elderly, the infirm,
etc. who are not necessarily easy customers for these services? Do we simply
forget about them? (As we often have in the past.)
6. But . . . in places of high unemployment. ?Bike Taxis? and the like
offer income earning possibilities to poor young people (and where you
rather have them on a motorbike or throwing torches at Government House. It
is a choice after all.)
7. From the usual formal planning and policy perspective in most places
at least, these gizmos simply do not exist. (And yet if you look out on the
street, as Galileo said: e pur si muove
which with your permission I will
translate to: ?And yet they move?.
8. And when they do (finally) come into the lagged sights of the
indolent policy makers (usually as a result of some kind of press wake-up
call), the knee-jerk reaction is all too often either (a) to ban them
(whereby all the problems conveniently disappear) and/or (b) to ?control?
them. (But certainly not to understand them
am I not right in this?) Both
these reactions are, as we can see in city after city, not very productive
from the vantage of sustainable development and social justice, or even
simple systemic efficiency out there on the street.
9. Should those of us who care about these things continue to leave
them in the hands of impatient administrators who decide one day to instruct
the police to toss all the becas into the ocean. Or, more often, just to
stay under the desk and pretend that it does not exist and will go away.
10. So where does this bring us? To deal with this brave new world, should
we just throw away all the old transport dogmas and designs, and simply
rejigger the whole system around two wheelers?
11. Or can we continue to patch and band-aid here and there in city after
city and hope to get good results?
12. Or do we have to start to create a new multi-level Third World City
transportation paradigm with new classes of vehicles and street users to be
brought into the formal planning lens?
13. Suppose for the moment that we limit our attention to all this from an
Asian perceptive. (We can then later take what we have learned and apply it
to the other parts of the world in which his new transportation paradigm is
emerging.)
14. We are talking about HUGE NUMBERS. And a process that is already well
engaged.
15. Anybody mention Kyoto?
16. Maybe a good starting place in this clearly much needed rethinking of
transport in cities is to step back and ask (as Dinesh suggested): WHAT IS A
STREET ANYWAY?
17. Is it a place meant for cars? Are all streets in a city alike? Do we
need to have more gradations in terms of transport types to accommodate?
18. And what about the important non-transport functions of streets as
public spaces? As meeting places? As venues for peddlers, hucksters,
hawkers? Places to rest or sleep? Uses that put in Jane Jacobs? wonderful
words ?eyes on the street?, public presence that act to temper violence and
personal attack?
What I am trying to say that while cities around the world are de facto
reinventing transport, those of us who care should now get to work to
develop new paradigms, tools and visions of how all this newness can be
better understood and put to better use.
Are these things that we should be talking about here? And as part of this
seeing what we might do to increase consciousness of the issues at stake and
somehow, somewhere figuring out how to advance this important agenda?
Thank you for your patience. And for your ideas.
Eric
The New Mobility Agenda at http://newmobility.org
The New Mobility Forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WorldTransport/
The Commons: Open Society Sustainability Initiative
Le Frene, 8/10 rue Joseph Bara, 75006 Paris, France
Tel: +331 4326 1323 Mobile: +336 8096 7879
24 hour Fax/Voicemail hotline: +33 (1) 53 01 28 96
IP Videoconference: 81.65.50.63
Email: postmaster@ecoplan.org
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From aables at adb.org Thu Aug 26 19:58:47 2004
From: aables at adb.org (aables@adb.org)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 18:58:47 +0800
Subject: [sustran] The moon is at Ortigas Avenue
Message-ID:
I live in the outskirts of Metro Manila and have to ply Ortigas Avenue to
and from ADB. Early this year, Ortigas Avenue-a national road-was newly
paved with asphalt up to Ortigas Avenue Extension, just in time for the
national and local elections in May. Now it's rainy season and the road
has turned into an obstacle course for both motorists and pedestrians. My
15-20-minute ride to work has become a 1 1/2hour-long torture (of course
this could extend to 2 hours if I was really lucky). The 8-10km stretch is
now filled with craters of every size and shape that have turned into
pools of murky water complete with black sandy asphalt on the side.
Construction workers have started shaving off the asphalt only to replace
it again with substandard asphalt. And so it goes. We can only hope that
this time, they will truly rehabilitate it and use concrete instead of
asphalt and that the next road repair will not be needed for years to
come... or until the next national elections, which is in the next 6
years. Road rehabilitation has been one of the primary milking cows of
politicians and will remain that way, unless the laws against graft and
corruption are implemented and its violators are punished to the fullest.
_______________________________________
Aurora Fe (Au) A. Ables
Transport Researcher
Clean Air Initiative for Asian Cities (CAI-Asia)
Asian Development Bank
Phone ++632 632 4444 local 70820
Fax ++632 636 2381
Email aables@adb.org
Website http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia
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From aables at adb.org Thu Aug 26 20:38:37 2004
From: aables at adb.org (aables@adb.org)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 19:38:37 +0800
Subject: [sustran] Partnership for Sustainable Urban Transport in Asia (PSUTA)
holds international workshops in Hanoi
Message-ID:
apologies for cross-posting. -Au
Partnership for Sustainable Urban Transport in Asia (PSUTA) holds
international workshops in Hanoi
PSUTA Coordination Meeting 30 August - 1 September 2004 and PSUTA
International Brainstorming 3 - 4 September 2004 both at Melia Hotel,
Hanoi, Viet Nam
The Clean Air Initiative for Asian Cities (CAI-Asia), Asian Development
Bank (ADB), and EMBARQ, the World Resources Institute (WRI) Center for
Transport and Environment, will have a three-day Coordination and Review
Meeting of the PSUTA to evaluate the results of the work on indicators of
sustainable transport for the cities of Xi'an, Hanoi, and Pune. A two-day
International Brainstorming of the PSUTA follows, where they will develop
a strategic framework for sustainable transport for the 3 cities. Both workshops are by invitation only. Read about PSUTA.
_______________________________________
Aurora Fe (Au) A. Ables
Clean Air Initiative for Asian Cities (CAI-Asia)
Asian Development Bank
Phone ++632 632 4444 local 70820
Fax ++632 636 2381
Email aables@adb.org
Website http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia
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From ericbruun at earthlink.net Thu Aug 26 23:53:43 2004
From: ericbruun at earthlink.net (Eric Bruun)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 10:53:43 -0400
Subject: [sustran] Peak Oil audio on NPR this morning --
http://www.npr.org/dmg/dmg.php?prgCode=ME&showDate=25-Aug-2004&segNum=12&NPRMediaPref=RM
Message-ID: <012201c48b7c$8243bf20$58fa45cf@earthlink.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: Biddle
To: Paul Metz ; HGTransport
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 6:04 PM
Subject: hgtrans: Peak Oil audio on NPR this morning -- http://www.npr.org/dmg/dmg.php?prgCode=ME&showDate=25-Aug-2004&segNum=12&NPRMediaPref=RM
Experts: Oil Production Peak Inevitable
The summer's record high oil prices and tight supplies raise questions about how much oil is left. Though oil companies are seeking new discoveries, industry veterans agree oil production will hit a peak -- though estimates on when vary from 10 to 40 years. Hear NPR's Steve Inskeep.
» E-mail this audio link
T. Boone Pickens in the oil biz for 53 years says that the current oil supply situation has peaked at 82,000,000 barrels of oil per day
http://www.npr.org/dmg/dmg.php?prgCode=ME&showDate=25-Aug-2004&segNum=12&NPRMediaPref=RM
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From ecoplan.adsl at wanadoo.fr Fri Aug 27 02:36:10 2004
From: ecoplan.adsl at wanadoo.fr (ecoplan.adsl)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 19:36:10 +0200
Subject: [sustran] Do-it-Yourself: Your Own Car/Free Day
Message-ID: <014701c48b93$2dd6c600$6501a8c0@home>
Dear Sustran Friends: We offer you this working draft for you
information, use and, hopefully, comments. Regards, World Car-Free Days
Consortium, New Mobility Agenda, Paris.
-------------
Do-it-Yourself: Your Own Car/Free Day
In the original project and international call at the Accessible Cities
Conference in Toledo Spain of 18 October 1994 , "Thursday: Breakthrough
Strategies for Transport in Cities". which set off and gave a coherent
international structure to the Car/Free Day movement, one of the most
interesting and useful sections was entitled "What Happens if You Don't
Happen to Be a City?". You will find the full text of that invitation to
individual action at the end of this note.
But let us first see if we can give you a list of things that you and
your family might wish to consider doing together to celebrate your own
Car/Free Day.
36 Terrific Car/Free Day things you can do by yourself and with your
family
1. Sign up in the "Own Car/Free Day International Register" (See
http://guestbook.sparklit.com/entries?gbID=113338)
2. Respond to everyone who contacts you with ideas or questions.
3. Get around during that one Day without getting into a car by
yourself.
4. Walk or bike your kids to school.
5. Ask yourself each time you think about it that day, if you
really need to take your car. Just then?
6. If you do go somewhere in your car, invite your family and
neighbors and plan your trip together. (If possible, write it down.)
7. Plan your trips so that you can deal with multiple destinations
in one trip.
8. Visit the nearest carshare club and see how it works (They may
be offering special terms for Car/Free Day participants)
9. Ditto for local cycling club (and ask if they have an transport
bike support program)
10. Check out if there is a Walk to School program for you to
join/participate in
11. Buy a cycle - and start to use it (with care!)
12. Put a visible white ribbon on your antenna or external mirror to
signal that you are participating in your own or the Car/Free Day (You
may be able to develop a common signal for others doing the same thing.
That would be great and help to get the message across.)
13. Invite each member of the family to create a little 'travel log'
for the day (name, date, each trip time, purpose, O/D, means of
transport)
14. Make up a simple illustrated local map showing step by step the
trip to school (or some other destination), with drawings and photo to
illustrate specific danger points. Make a commentary on what needs to be
done to make this trip a safer one. Then share it with your neighbors,
the school, the PTA, local media and send a copy to us for posting.
15. Participate in the (if there is one) "Car Regrets" poll (tracking
personal experience with deaths and injuries in car accidents in last
years).
16. Have a party at your house or place of work and invite people to
come xCar.
17. Set up own, neighborhood or group web site (or dedicate some part
of the existing site to support your and others events).
18. Write an editorial or letter to your local paper (and send a copy
to us at postmaster@ecoplan.org so that e can public it on the world
site for others to see and think about).
What Happens if You Don't Happen to Be a City?
(Extract from Thursday: Breakthrough Strategies for Transport in
Cities", Toledo, 1994)
Agreeable as the idea may be, there will be many who will find
themselves in situations where their city or neighborhood will not be
prepared to make the leap and try a Thursday project. How for example
can even the most willing citizen hope to participate in such an
experiment if you happen to live in the middle of Los Angeles, London,
Tokyo or any other of tens of thousands of cities where responsible
intelligent people will tell you that "it is just not possible here"?
(And that will, incidentally, be the first reaction in most places.)
As luck would have it you have a choice. Anyone who wishes can go out
and organize their own Thursday project on their own terms. You don't
have to be a city or even a small town. Thus, for example, if you are
president of a company, you can get together with those who work there
and ask them if they are interested in giving it a try. Or a school or
a gym or a hospital. Perhaps you will decide with the members of your
bridge club, church or karate group that you are all going to try to see
what happens if each of you decides to spend just one day without
getting into a car by yourselves alone. Or maybe just the people in
your family. Or possibly just yourself -- one person alone who has
decided that she or he is willing to take a fling to see what it might
be like.
There will of course be no one best way to do it. Each person, group,
and place is going to have to figure out the rules on their own. In
some cases, car pooling and shared taxis may be considered acceptable,
in others only non-motorized or public transport. Each grouping will
decide its own rules and live its own experience. But the point that I
wish to stress is that this can be an individual decision and does not
have to be something that comes out of some government agency or very
large collections of institutions and interests.
This is, quite blatantly, not the sort of approach that will appeal to
docile, fatalistic or passive citizens. These are concepts that are gong
to be picked up only by more thoughtful, individualistic, self-confident
individuals and groups. And it is my belief that there are in our
societies many more of these kinds of people than most might think.
One of the challenges behind each Thursday project will be to find
imaginative ways for all those who decide to participate not only to
have their own unique experiences on that day, but also to get together
later so that what they have done and learned individually during that
fated day can somehow be summed up and inspected from a community or
group wide perspective. This suggests a combination of something like
individual log books wherein each participant or group can record the
detail of their particular experiences, and then some way of adding
these experiences up in order o draw some larger lessons from the whole.
I have no specific suggestions at this point how the detail of this will
best be handled, but I am confident that once the problem has been
clearly posed, there will be people and groups who know what to do next.
Good organization and careful planning will help, and so too could
sensible use of state of the art electronic communications
Organize a Car/Free Day: The nose of the camel.
World Car/Free Days at http://worldcarfreeday.com
To leave list: WorldCarfreeDays-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
To post messages: WorldCarfreeDays@yahoogroups.com
Also check out New Mobility Agenda at http://newmobility.org
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From richmond at alum.mit.edu Fri Aug 27 03:01:53 2004
From: richmond at alum.mit.edu (Jonathan E. D. Richmond)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 01:01:53 +0700 (SE Asia Standard Time)
Subject: [sustran] A Thai Cultural Experience
Message-ID:
This evening I went to the Thailand Cultural Centre by metrorail for the
first time. I started on a 29 bus. Two confused Italians got on at the
airport. They wanted to go to Hua Long Pong, so I suggested they join me
and take the train from Phahon Yothin.
We got off at the Central mall stop. We had a long walk down the side of
the mall, then tried to make our way down the front of it on broken
sidewalk. There was no signage anywhere to say where to find the station.
"You'd never have otherwise found it, would you?" I said. The Italians
shook their heads.
What appears to be an entrance turned out to be a one-way only down
escalator. "Terrible design," said one of the Italians. We walked round
some potholes and found the up entrance.
Eventually, we entered the station. Last time I was there, the ticket
machines were marked out of order and everyone had to queue at the
counter. Now, both machines appeared to be working. An attendant was on
hand. It was soon clear why. The machine sold me a token correctly but
took the Italians' money without giving anything back. The attendant
walked over to the counter to get them tokens.
I said goodbye to the Italians at the Thailand Cultural Centre station.
You would have thought that at the stop for Thailand's largest arts
complex there would be some information on how to get there. No luck. The
attendant hanging around spoke no English. "Wattana?" I offered in
Thai, and he pointed to an exit.
The exit was in the middle of a concrete wasteland. No information here.
In fact, to get to the Cultural Centre, you have to complete a massive
circuit, starting off in seemingly the wrong direction and curving round.
At one point you have the choice of a narrow path down the side of a crash
barrier or walking in the road. If you go the safe side of the barrier,
you then have to climb over it and are back in the stream of traffic.
Afrter crossing the roadl, you need to turn left, although there is
nothing to indicate this. Eventually you reach the unmarked entrance to
the centre, whose parking lot is full with expensive looking cars. I met
two Canadians who had also come by transit and were pretty stunned by the
effort involved. You'd be hardpressed to find any of the uppercrust Thais
who attend such events willing to gove such transport a try.
--Jonathan
-----
Jonathan E. D. Richmond 02 524-5510 (office)
Visiting Fellow Intl.: 662 524-5510
Transportation Engineering program
School of Civil Engineering, Room N260B 02 524-8257 (home)
Asian Institute of Technology Intl.: 662 524-8257
PO Box 4
Klong Luang, Pathumthani 12120 02 524-5509 (fax)
Thailand Intl: 662 524-5509
e-mail: richmond@ait.ac.th Secretary: Ms. Nisarat Hansuksa
richmond@alum.mit.edu 02 524-6051
Intl: 662 524-6051
http://the-tech.mit.edu/~richmond/
From paulbarter at nus.edu.sg Fri Aug 27 14:59:07 2004
From: paulbarter at nus.edu.sg (Paul Barter)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:59:07 +0800
Subject: [sustran] FW: International Course on Transportation Planning and
Safety
Message-ID: <0C270D0ABD2B8B44900A88DE0887F49A039A0D@MBOX01.stf.nus.edu.sg>
Dear sustran-discussers
This course in Delhi is a world leader in the field. An excellent
investment.
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: Dinesh Mohan [mailto:dmohan@cbme.iitd.ernet.in]
Sent: Wednesday, 25 August 2004 5:04 PM
To: Paul Barter
Subject: International Course on Transportation Planning and
Safety
Dear Paul,
The Transportation Research and Injury Prevention
Programme(TRIPP) at the Indian Institute of Technology, Delhi, the
French National Institute for Transport and Safety Research (INRETS)
France, and the International Research Council on the Biomechanics of
Impacts (IRCOBI) are organizing a seven day International Course on
Transportation Planning and Safety. The course will be held in New
Delhi, India, from 09-15 December 2004, and TRIPP will be the host
institution.
Course Objectives
This seven day Course will bring together professionals working
in the area of transportation planning and safety promotion to acquaint
them with the state-of-the-art information in the field. The Course is
especially designed for an interdisciplinary audience of law enforcers,
police officers, traffic and road engineers, behavioral scientists, and
mechanical engineers. The contents of the Course are especially focused
to give a global perspective to the road safety and injury control
problems.
By the end of the Course the participants should:
* know about the latest findings in methodologies for
traffic planning prevention of traffic accident and injuries
* be aware of policies and methods which have been shown
to be successful or have not worked in the past
* be able to improve or start their own programmes on
traffic planning and safety promotion.
The details of the course and the application form are available
at:
http://www.iitd.ac.in/tripp ["Course" button]
We would be obliged if you could have this information
circulated to your mailing lists via email.
With best wishes.
Dinesh Mohan
--
======================================================================
TRIPP website http://www.iitd.ac.in/tripp/
READ THE DECLARATION ON PEOPLE'S RIGHT TO SAFETY
http://www.iitd.ac.in/tripp/righttosafety/rightframe.html
[If this server gives you trouble in sending a mail to me,
you can use temporarily.]
======================================================================
Dinesh Mohan
Henry Ford Professor for Biomechanics and Transportation Safety
Transportation Research and Injury Prevention Programme
Room MS 808, Main Building
Indian Institute of Technology
Hauz Khas
New Delhi 110016
Phone: (+91 11) 2659 1147
FAX: (+91 11) 2685 8703
Home: (+91 11) 2649 4910
Email: dmohan@cbme.iitd.ernet.in
======================================================================
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From ecoplan.adsl at wanadoo.fr Sat Aug 28 18:55:37 2004
From: ecoplan.adsl at wanadoo.fr (ecoplan.adsl@wanadoo.fr)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 11:55:37 +0200
Subject: [sustran] Food for thought for Car Free Days
Message-ID: <010401c48ce5$2be76180$6501a8c0@home>
This fine collection appears in an unexpected corner of the Quote
Garden, at http://www.quotegarden.com/car-free-day.html. I am sure that
a number of you here will read and appreciate. ;-)
Quotations for World Car-Free Day
Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the
future of the human race. ~H.G. Wells
The car has become... an article of dress without which we feel
uncertain, unclad, and incomplete. ~Marshall McLuhan, Understanding
Media, 1964
The automobile has not merely taken over the street, it has dissolved
the living tissue of the city. Its appetite for space is absolutely
insatiable; moving and parked, it devours urban land, leaving the
buildings as mere islands of habitable space in a sea of dangerous and
ugly traffic. ~James Marston Fitch, New York Times, 1 May 1960
The activist is not the man who says the river is dirty. The activist
is the man who cleans up the river. ~Ross Perot
Our national flower is the concrete cloverleaf. ~Lewis Mumford
Modern technology
Owes ecology
An apology.
~Alan M. Eddison
Your grandchildren will likely find it incredible - or even sinful -
that you burned up a gallon of gasoline to fetch a pack of cigarettes!
~Dr. Paul MacCready, Jr.
You go into a community and they will vote 80 percent to 20 percent in
favor of a tougher Clean Air Act, but if you ask them to devote 20
minutes a year to having their car emissions inspected, they will vote
80 to 20 against it. We are a long way in this country from taking
individual responsibility for the environmental problem. ~William D.
Ruckelshaus, former EPA administrator, New York Times, 30 November 1988
A vigorous five-mile walk will do more good for an unhappy but otherwise
healthy adult than all the medicine and psychology in the world. ~Paul
Dudley White
Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time. ~Steven Wright
I have two doctors, my left leg and my right. ~G.M. Trevelyan
Natives who beat drums to drive off evil spirits are objects of scorn to
smart Americans who blow horns to break up traffic jams. ~Mary Ellen
Kelly
The civilized man has built a coach, but has lost the use of his feet.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson, "Self-Reliance," 1841
It wasn't the Exxon Valdez captain's driving that caused the Alaskan oil
spill. It was yours. ~Greenpeace advertisement, New York Times, 25
February 1990
There's so much pollution in the air now that if it weren't for our
lungs there'd be no place to put it all. ~Robert Orben
Don't blow it - good planets are hard to find. ~Quoted in Time
Remember the street car cannot turn out. ~Charles M. Hayes
Man is the animal that intends to shoot himself out into interplanetary
space, after having given up on the problem of an efficient way to get
himself five miles to work and back each day. ~Bill Vaughan
When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.
Here was a machine of precision and balance for the convenience of man.
And (unlike subsequent inventions for man's convenience) the more he
used it, the fitter his body became. Here, for once, was a product of
man's brain that was entirely beneficial to those who used it, and of no
harm or irritation to others. Progress should have stopped when man
invented the bicycle. ~Elizabeth West, Hovel in the Hills
Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world.
~Grant Peterson
A city that outdistances man's walking powers is a trap for man.
~Arnold Toynbee
Americans are broad-minded people. They'll accept the fact that a
person can be an alcoholic, a dope fiend, a wife beater, and even a
newspaperman, but if a man doesn't drive, there is something wrong with
him. ~Art Buchwald, "How Un-American Can You Get?," Have I Ever Lied to
You?, 1966
Automobiles are not ferocious.... it is man who is to be feared.
~Robbins B. Stoeckel
In an underdeveloped country, don't drink the water; in a developed
country, don't breathe the air. ~Changing Times magazine
Every day is Earth Day. ~Author Unknown
Restore human legs as a means of travel. Pedestrians rely on food for
fuel and need no special parking facilities. ~Lewis Mumford
Consider the man on horseback, and I have been a man on horseback for
most of my life. Well, mostly he is a good man, but there is a change
in him as soon as he mounts. Every man on horseback is an arrogant man,
however gentle he may be on foot. The man in the automobile is one
thousand times as dangerous. I tell you, it will engender absolute
selfishness in mankind if the driving of automobiles becomes common. It
will breed violence on a scale never seen before. It will mark the end
of the family as we know it, the three or four generations living
happily in one home. It will destroy the sense of neighborhood and the
true sense of Nation. It will create giantized cankers of cities, false
opulence of suburbs, ruinized countryside, and unhealthy conglomerations
of specialized farming and manufacturing. It will make every man a
tyrant. ~R.A. Lafferty, written in the late 1800s, as quoted in
Adbusters, Spring 1996
One of the first laws against air pollution came in 1300 when King
Edward I decreed the death penalty for burning of coal. At least one
execution for that offense is recorded. But economics triumphed over
health considerations, and air pollution became an appalling problem in
England. ~Glenn T. Seaborg, Atomic Energy Commission chairman, speech,
Argonne National Laboratory, 1969
No one should be able to enter a wilderness by mechanical means.
~Garrett Hardin, The Ecologist, February 1974
Everything in life is somewhere else, and you get there in a car.
~E.B. White, One Man's Meat, 1943
Humanity is on the march, earth itself is left behind. ~David
Ehrenfeld, The Arrogance of Humanism, 1978
As we watch the sun go down, evening after evening, through the smog
across the poisoned waters of our native earth, we must ask ourselves
seriously whether we really wish some future universal historian on
another planet to say about us: "With all their genius and with all
their skill, they ran out of foresight and air and food and water and
ideas," or, "They went on playing politics until their world collapsed
around them." ~U Thant, speech, 1970
What fools indeed we morals are
To lavish care upon a Car,
With ne'er a bit of time to see
About our own machinery!
~John Kendrick Bangs
Remember when atmospheric contaminants were romantically called
stardust? ~Lane Olinghouse
I'm not sure... about automobiles.... With all their speed forward they
may be a step backward in civilization - that is, in spiritual
civilization. It may be that they will not add to the beauty of the
world, nor to the life of men's souls. I am not sure. But automobiles
have come, and they bring a greater change in our life than most of us
suspect. They are here, and almost all outward things are going to be
different because of what they bring. They are going to alter war, and
they are going to alter peace. I think men's minds are going to be
changed in subtle ways because of automobiles; just how, though, I could
hardly guess. But you can't have the immense outward changes that they
will cause without some inward ones, and it may be that... the spiritual
alteration will be bad for us. Perhaps, ten or twenty years from now,
if we can see the inward change in men by that time, I shouldn't be able
to defend the gasoline engine, but would have to agree... that
automobiles 'had no business to be invented.' ~Eugene, from Booth
Tarkington's The Magnificent Ambersons, 1918
You can't see anything from a car; you've got to get out of the goddamn
contraption and walk, better yet crawl, on hands and knees, over the
sandstone and through the thornbrush and cactus. When traces of blood
begin to mark your trail, you'll see something, maybe. ~Edward Abbey
Because we don't think about future generations, they will never forget
us. ~Henrik Tikkanen
For 200 years we've been conquering Nature. Now we're beating it to
death. ~Tom McMillan, quoted in Francesca Lyman, The Greenhouse Trap,
1990
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From ecoplan.adsl at wanadoo.fr Sun Aug 29 23:17:52 2004
From: ecoplan.adsl at wanadoo.fr (ecoplan.adsl@wanadoo.fr)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 16:17:52 +0200
Subject: [sustran] car free days redux ("In truth a name without a number is
merely a fetish")
Message-ID: <000601c48dd2$f9f68db0$6501a8c0@home>
Dear Intransigent Friends of Sustainable Development And Social Justice
,
There are a number of "car free days" brewing in cities around the world
in the month ahead, and I would like to draw your attention to a good
'front door' on all activity this which you will find in our sister site
http://WorldCarFreeDay.com at http://WorldCarFreeDay.com
.
The truth is that while a growing number of cities are 'playing' with
this concept (I think the word is just about right), the fact is that in
most of them these are truly non-events. And if the sponsors will all
generally report them as "success stories' (dreadful little expression)
if you talk to the media or many of the people on the street in most of
those places, you will find rather different views. There are of course
a certain number of people who think (b) they're a great idea, and
that's of course wonderful. There are even, but here the number is far
smaller, (b) those who have a deeper understanding of what it is all
about, and are ready to see how they can help in edging their city and
the various groups involved toward longer term and more permanent
remedial actions to start to get things moving in the right direction
(call it the "New Mobility Agenda" for wont of a better phrase). But
when you talk to the people in that place far more common reactions
include: (c) I never knew it was taking place, or (d) It may have but so
what? or (e) Yeah and it was a real pain and finally (f) This kind of
unprofessional wildness is undermining the economy and the
transportation system of our city.
That's the harsh reality of the Car/Free Day movement in 2004, but all
is not lost. As you will see if you travel over to World Car/Free Days
there is in fact a learning process going on in at least some places,
and I think it is good for us to have a mature vision of what this is
and what we may be able to do with it as part of the massive remedial
and rethinking process that needs to be engaged (a process which,
incidentally, way outstrips the thinking or intentions of most of the
more official sponsors to such events). And indeed, all is not lost
because - and let's not forget this, administrations may be pretty dumb
but there are a lot of smart and responsible people out there in city
after city - some of this learning is talking hold here and there, and
in these places you can see a very interesting evolution of the thinking
and the projects and their follow-up.
So, if I may invite you all to have a look and if it suits you to share
with us your thoughts and perspective on this. Real learning cannot as
we continue to see in situation after situation take place if the only
sources of reaction and views are those from people working inside the
box in question. Which is definitely not your case. So it will be very
very useful to hear from you on this.
And should you know of a Car/Free Day or two, you will see there is even
a handy gizmo for reporting to the group about it. That too will be
useful.
Finally, I would draw your attention again to what is going on later
this month in Toronto with their New Mobility Week and action program
for the year ahead. You will find the latest on that if you click into
the Toronto Link on the New Mobility Agenda at http://newmobility.org.
Thanks if your time and taste permits you to have a look at this,
Eric Britton
PS. In closing let me share with you a phrase otherwise hidden in a note
I received in the last days from (Dr.) Rana Roy whom many of you know.
Rana wrote: "In truth a name without a number is merely a fetish". And
I can think of few ways to better describe what we should be doing now
to advance the sustainability agenda in cities. Short term programs with
real visible measurable targets put our there in the public view for all
to see and work toward. No more mumbling. No more hiding. No more
'success stories'. Only success or failure. Which is the only way we
can progress.
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From Tramsol at aol.com Mon Aug 30 17:14:18 2004
From: Tramsol at aol.com (Tramsol@aol.com)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 04:14:18 EDT
Subject: [sustran] Car free days redux ("Let the people plant their acorns.....
Message-ID:
Eric
You are clearly aiming for a personal or list-purge on pessimissm (or
pessimists). lets consider what can be done with individuals planting theri own
small acorns.
In the UK you can apply fro a private street closure, and many streets which
have managed to retain a sens of community are doing this, as are
institutions the world reknowned Glasgow School of Art now closes the street outside
and has people strolling around, with music etc for their degree day viewings,
the vastly improved ambience is leading others to consider doing likewise,
and perhaps more than just a closure for the degree-day, why not one every
month, and then since perhaps the local shop will do several ?'000's worth of
extra business (as the corner shop on Curtain Road did for the Shoreditch
Triangle car free area last year - on its first happening) and soon you muight get
a suggestion of closing a street at least once a week and ...hey it isn't
really causing the chaos we expected, and people are actually enjoying it, and
spending money etc...
My real aim would be to see more events like the Seattle I-5 and Toronto Don
Valley Parkway closures - London might close the M40 /Westway, Glkasgow the
M8 over the Kingston Bridge, as these roads can be closed and traffic diverted
for road works - so why not a Sunday and turn the lot over to people powered
travel - cycling, jogging, roller blading 6 to 8 lanes wide - Paris has done
this with the city beach (although the real challenge might be the
Perephique).
I reckon that there is a parallel conservatism in the thinking of those who
run roads networks under strain from motor traffic overload, and those who run
public transport - both very nervous about change - even a minor change (of
fares or timetables) can make or break a company, and likewise even small
changes like giving greater priority to the majority traffic (pedestrians) in
town gives nightmares to those riding the Tiger. I have a Streube Cartoon
from a wartime compendium quoting an Indian proverb "He who rides a tiger can
never dismount" picturing Hitler riding the Tiger he has set on a course of
war. Many of those battling with congestion and mounting motor traffic levels
are quite likely trapped in a porogramme they are frightened to abandon.
Little, friendly measures like car free days are the way to slowly win them
round, and provide the securing leash for their tiger with a set of steps to
dismount, but be sure that each year moves forward with a little more challenge to
make the event more memorable.
Dave Holladay
Transportation Management Solutions - working with CTC on Public Transport
Campaigns
CTC - The National Cyclists Organisation - Working for Cycling since 1878
(Glasgow)
6 Woodlands Terrace
Glasgow
G3 6DH
0141 332 4733 P
0141 354 0076 F
(CTC HQ)
69 Meadrow
Godalming
GU7 3HS
0870 873 0060 P
0870 873 0064 F
Copy/send e-mail for CTC matters to dave.holladay@ctc.org.uk
07710 535 404 M
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From aables at adb.org Tue Aug 31 02:00:40 2004
From: aables at adb.org (aables@adb.org)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 01:00:40 +0800
Subject: [sustran] Aurora Ables/Consultants/ADB is out of the office.
Message-ID:
I will be out of the office starting 28/08/2004 and will not return until
06/09/2004.
I will be out of the office from 28 Aug - 5 Sep 2004. I will respond to
your message when I return. For urgent matters, please contact Charles
Simbillo .
From ecoplan.adsl at wanadoo.fr Tue Aug 31 19:40:33 2004
From: ecoplan.adsl at wanadoo.fr (ecoplan.adsl@wanadoo.fr)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 12:40:33 +0200
Subject: [sustran] One last word on our small planet.
Message-ID: <014d01c48f46$f2ad8fc0$6501a8c0@home>
Today is not quite like all others. It is the birthday of our friend
Kisan Mehta of the Save Bombay Committee.
Kisan? Let us all wish you, those you love and Bombay health, happiness
and a long and creative life.
Eric
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From ecoplan.adsl at wanadoo.fr Tue Aug 31 19:40:33 2004
From: ecoplan.adsl at wanadoo.fr (ecoplan.adsl@wanadoo.fr)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 12:40:33 +0200
Subject: [sustran] Making the planet smaller, and much nicer
Message-ID: <015201c48f46$f2cf4890$6501a8c0@home>
Dear Sustran Friends,
I hope that you will call upon your great reservoir of patience and take
just a bit of time with this. Here quickly is why:
1. We would like to show you how we are using technology that is at
our fingertips to integrate information coming in from Japan and in
Japanese and making it more broadly accessible to one of our little
programs.
2. To see how it works, you have to click over to World Car/Free
Days Collaborative at http://WorldCarFreeDay.com and click the Outreach
Survey Link. And then the Survey Responses to date.
3. Once there go to the first that came in just this morning that
if for the Car/Free Day project in Tokyo and follow the clear easy step
by step instructions at the bottom of their entry for translating the
text of their site.
If you do this, one of these days you will probably want to thank me.
Eric;-)
-----Original Message-----
From: eric.britton @ ecoplan.org [mailto:eric.britton @ ecoplan.org]
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 11:53 AM
To: Secretary @ rainbow.gr.jp
Subject: [WorldCarfreeDays] Tokyo Car Free Day 2004
Tuesday, August 31, 2004, Paris, France, Europe
Dear Secretary of Tokyo Car/Free Day,
This is to invite you respectfully to visit the World Car/Free Days
Collaborative at http://WorldCarFreeDay.com
. We hope that you will find it useful.
We have just posted the latest information on your 2004 Car/Free Day
events on the site, which you will see if you click on the menu Outreach
Survey and then "Reponses to Date". This information has been kindly
sent to us by Dr. Naoko Matsumoto of the esteemed Institute for Global
Environmental Strategies.
The hundreds of people who are interested in the problems of more
sustainable mobility in cities around the world now have access to this
information, through a rough translation that is now available and
introduced in the indicated Summary.
We will be pleased to hear more about your day and plans for the 2004
events, and even if the text is in Japanese we will be able to have some
access to it through the translation engine that is now available.
This is helping to make our small world smaller and more accessible. Now
all we need to do it make it softer and better.
With all good wishes,
Eric Britton
The New Mobility Agenda at http://newmobility.org
The New Mobility Forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WorldTransport/
The Commons: Open Society Sustainability Initiative
Le Frene, 8/10 rue Joseph Bara, 75006 Paris, France
Tel: +331 4326 1323 Mobile: +336 8096 7879
24 hour Fax/Voicemail hotline: +33 (1) 53 01 28 96
IP Videoconference: 81.65.50.63
Email: postmaster @ ecoplan.org
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