These are the right questions, but finding the right answers will not be easy as long as we are unable to convince the decision makers that unless we put a stop to the present car-oriented development, our problems will only get worse. -- Sujit <div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 1:12 PM, Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory <edelman@greenidea.eu> wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> <div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> Hi Sudhir, Do you mean 20-25% as a goal by 2020? Prague has about 25% private car modal share and its pretty darn horrible. Of course I am not sure how this looks in other much larger cities but when so much driving is still possible, it is likely that a lot of people will still have private cars which end up sitting around most of the time, stored in public space. Stored on streets. A street is a public space between buildings, but when used for car storage it is simply a parking lot with a bit of natural activity, and with homes on the sides. (in addition to businesses and a few other facilities). I think we need to start asking ourselves why we want to live next to parking lots. - T Sudhir wrote: <blockquote type="cite"><div><div></div><div class="h5">Hi Carlos and others, Good news is instead of one more ring road at least the investment and priority is on public transport. Now, if they keep up the funding on public transport with good investment on non motorized transport and provide incentives, i think its a very good move...... The question is how much of private transport share is bearable? i would be happy with 20-25% of private mode share in Asian cities with proportionate investment in 2020. In short if they can freeze the current mode share of private automobiles (20% in 2004) :-) best regards Sudhir <div class="gmail_quote">2009/6/13 Carlosfelipe Pardo <<a href="mailto:carlosfpardo@gmail.com" target="_blank">carlosfpardo@gmail.com</a>> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Hi, An interesting question is if they in Beijing expect the future public transport users to come from cars or bicycles... this is seldom answered (or asked) in any of these schemes and remains a problem. In many places I've asked that question and they normally say that future bicycle users will come from public transport, or the opposite. And when they say that bicycle or public transport users will come from cars, they have no idea how this will be achieved. Beijing used to have an extremely high mode share of bicycle use some years ago, and it has now fallen to pieces due to the "promotion" of cars. So is promoting public transport good or bad in this scenario? I mean, will they end up with no one riding bicycles and the rest in cars or buses? Not sure if it's the win-win situation. Carlos. Sudhir wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> /Beijing has set a target, how about other cities??/ <div> <div> see <a href="http://www.beijingdaily.com.cn/beijingnews/200906/t20090612_524515.htm" target="_blank">http://www.beijingdaily.com.cn/beijingnews/200906/t20090612_524515.htm</a> Beijing will transform into a "public transport city" by 2015. In peak hours, the minimum departure interval for subway trains will be shortened to 2 minutes; the waiting time at bus stops will be reduced to 3 to 5 minutes; public transport will account for 45 percent of the journeys in downtown areas. "Beijing's implementation plan on humanistic, technological and green transport" (from 2009 to 2015) was recently reviewed and approved by the Standing Committee of CPC Beijing Municipal Committee, unveiling the "public transport city". Beijing will transform into a "public transport city" by 2015. Public transport will account for 45 percent of the journeys in downtown areas According to the plan, from 2009 to 2015, Beijing will construct a new transport system meeting the capital city's needs for development, by implementing four major projects including rail transit network project. By then, the public transport will become remarkably more attractive. Public transport will account for 45 percent of the journeys in downtown areas, while over 50 percent of the journeys will be via public transport during the commuting period. Rail transit will undertake around 50 percent of total passenger traffic of public transport, and the average daily passenger flow by rail transit and bus combined will be over 25 million; building a transport circle of "1-1-2" hours means that the average commuting time within the downtown area will be no more than 1 hour, the travel time from the furthest new towns to the Fifth Ring Road will be no more than 1 hour, and the travel time from Beijing to major cities in the Bohai Bay Rim economic region will be less than 2 hours. The total amount of major pollutants emitted by vehicles will be lower than that in 2008. Read More @ <a href="http://www.beijingdaily.com.cn/beijingnews/200906/t20090612_524515.htm" target="_blank">http://www.beijingdaily.com.cn/beijingnews/200906/t20090612_524515.htm</a> -- Sudhir Gota Transport Specialist CAI-Asia Center Unit 3510, 35th Floor, Robinsons-Equitable Tower, ADB Avenue, Ortigas Center, Pasig City Metro Manila, Philippines 1605 Tel: +63-2-395-2843 Fax: +63-2-395-2846 <a href="http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia" target="_blank">http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia</a> Skype : sudhirgota </div> </div> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------------------- To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit <a href="http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss" target="_blank">http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss</a> -------------------------------------------------------- If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to <a href="http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss" target="_blank">http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss</a> to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). </blockquote> </blockquote> </div> -- Sudhir Gota Transport Specialist CAI-Asia Center Unit 3510, 35th Floor, Robinsons-Equitable Tower, ADB Avenue, Ortigas Center, Pasig City Metro Manila, Philippines 1605 Tel: +63-2-395-2843 Fax: +63-2-395-2846 <a href="http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia" target="_blank">http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia</a> Skype : sudhirgota </div></div><pre><hr size="4" width="90%"><div class="im"> -------------------------------------------------------- To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit <a href="http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss" target="_blank">http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss</a> -------------------------------------------------------- If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to <a href="http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss" target="_blank">http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss</a> to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). </div></pre> </blockquote> <pre cols="72">-- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Green Idea Factory Urbanstr. 45 D-10967 Berlin Germany Skype: toddedelman Mobile: ++49 0162 814 4081 Home/Office: ++49 030 7554 0001 <a href="mailto:edelman@greenidea.eu" target="_blank">edelman@greenidea.eu</a> <a href="http://www.greenidea.eu" target="_blank">www.greenidea.eu</a> <a href="http://www.facebook.com/toddedelman" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/toddedelman</a> <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/edelman" target="_blank">www.flickr.com/photos/edelman</a> CAR is over. If you want it. "Fort mit der Autostadt und was Neues hingebaut!" - B. Brecht (with slight modification)</pre> </div> -------------------------------------------------------- To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit <a href="http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss" target="_blank">http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss</a> -------------------------------------------------------- If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to <a href="http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss" target="_blank">http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss</a> to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). </blockquote></div> -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- “..each million we invest into urban motorways is an investment to destroy the city“ Mayor Hans Joachim Vogel Munich 1970 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Sujit Patwardhan <a href="mailto:patwardhan.sujit@gmail.com">patwardhan.sujit@gmail.com</a> <a href="mailto:sujitjp@gmail.com">sujitjp@gmail.com</a> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yamuna, ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007, India Tel: +91 20 25537955 Cell: +91 98220 26627 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Parisar: <a href="http://www.parisar.org">www.parisar.org</a> PTTF: <a href="http://www.pttf.net">www.pttf.net</a> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------