Hi Todd, Interesting points you make here. Not long ago one of the neighbourhoods here in Montreal set up a <a href="http://www.montrealgazette.com/Point+Charles+pedals+faster+shared+bikes/1511556/story.html">fleet of free communal bicycles</a>, which by definition were marketed as shared 'community' property. Sadly (but not surprisingly) the project came to an abrupt halt this week when all of the bikes went missing. You can here an interview with one of the people involved <a href="http://cbc.ca/montreal/media/audio/daybreak/20090601DBK_BIKE_PROGRAM_650187.ram">here</a>. There were some recent conflicts with the authorities after the group 'appropriated' an a unused private building and declared it their new community and bicycle centre. Would not be a stretch to suggest that the authorities removed the bikes.... It definitely requires creative efforts to create a sense of public ownership. Given the emphasis on 'private property' throughout our recent history, and the growth in urban populations with the associated social atomisation that virtual communities provide (take that as you wish) it is not clear whether this sense of 'communal propriety' can ever be created. I believe that there were similar bicycle sharing programs in Holland decades ago (and probably elsewhere), and they too suffered similar fates.... Eric - any information on attitudes to 'ownership' of the Velib bikes? Zvi <div class="gmail_quote">2009/6/1 Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory <edelman@greenidea.eu> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> <div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> Hi, I would like to ask: * Does in fact the Municipality of Paris own the system ("...Velib is yours...")? * Who do people think really owns it? Paris? JCDecaux? "The people"? * How is destruction of the bikes tied in with attitudes about advertising in general, and JCDecaux in particular? * Is there any data on what people who damage bikes etc. think? Their demographic profile? Their reasons or lack thereof? Is it basically the same thing as destruction of collective public transport vehicles (non-functional damage such as tags on windows)? Does anyone suspect that the taxi or private car lobbies are behind it? * What other "steps" are being taken? Thanks, T The Editor wrote: <blockquote type="cite"><div><div></div><div class="h5">[<a href="http://newmobilityagenda.blogspot.com/2009/02/reports-of-velibs-demise-greatly.html" target="_blank">http://newmobilityagenda.blogspot.com/2009/02/reports-of-velibs-demise-greatly.html</a>] Vélib, Paris's pioneering, city-transforming public bike project has had its fair share (actually unfair share I would say) of vandalism and theft, and while it does not threaten the integrity and viability of the service, it is part of the landscape of public bikes and needs to be understood and taken into account. There is, in fact, a great deal that can be done to reduce the magnitude of these challenges , and indeed steps are being taken here. That said, let's have a look at some of the examples of damage, which have been collected for us by vigilant Eyes on the Street Sentinel in Paris, Larry Langner. And here you have a poster placed on one of the JCDecaux street signs in Paris, warning that: "Breaking a bike is easy. It can't defend itself". And then: "16,000 bikes vandalised, 8000 disappeared. Velib is yours. Protect it. For more examples, click to <a href="http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-264472" target="_blank">http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-264472</a> * Editor's note: Click <a href="http://newmobilityagenda.blogspot.com/2009/02/reports-of-velibs-demise-greatly.html" target="_blank">here </a>to read report on "<a href="http://newmobilityagenda.blogspot.com/2009/02/reports-of-velibs-demise-greatly.html" target="_blank">Reports of Vélib’s Demise Greatly Exaggerated</a>" -- Posted By The Editor to <a href="http://newmobilityagenda.blogspot.com/2009/06/honk-battered-bicycles-in-paris.html" target="_blank">World Streets</a> at 6/01/2009 06:51:00 AM </div></div><pre><hr size="4" width="90%"> -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to <a href="http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss" target="_blank">http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss</a> to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). </pre> </blockquote> <pre cols="72">-- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Green Idea Factory Urbanstr. 45 D-10967 Berlin Germany Skype: toddedelman Mobile: ++49 0162 814 4081 Home/Office: ++49 030 7554 0001 <a href="mailto:edelman@greenidea.eu" target="_blank">edelman@greenidea.eu</a> <a href="http://www.greenidea.eu" target="_blank">www.greenidea.eu</a> <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/edelman" target="_blank">www.flickr.com/photos/edelman</a> CAR is over. If you want it. "Fort mit der Autostadt und was Neues hingebaut!" - B. Brecht (with slight modification)</pre> </div> -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to <a href="http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss" target="_blank">http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss</a> to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). </blockquote></div>