Hi Todd, thanks for your answer and your comments. At first view I understand that it might appear unusual the way these companies are involved in the network. But you should take into account that the automobile companies in Stuttgart have invested over the years enormous amounts of money in the development of environmentally-friendly technologies, also for public transport. Besides, Stuttgart and its region are traditionally linked to the topic of mobility. So when our city started "Cities for Mobility" we did not have to make a huge effort to convince these companies and the other actors to support the network. In the region of Stuttgart there is also a large number of research institutes and other organizations from the private sector that are active in the field of mobility and support our city. Stuttgart offers these actors a platform for establishing new contacts and exchanging experiences with their counterparts world wide. Contrary to other networks and international organisations, Cities for Mobility doesn't have any bureaucratic structure (like steering groups or committees) where these companies could take a decisive role in determining the strategy and topics of the network. If you have a look at our website, especially at our last World Congress (http://www.cities-for-mobility.net/index.php?option=com_docman&task=cat_view&gid=93&Itemid=131) you will notice that the topics ranged from the promotion of bicycles and pedestrian to traffic management at mega events, motorized individual transport and public transport. So if we were making lobby for the automobile industry I would say that we are not doing a good job. BR, Patrick Coordinator Global Network "Cities for Mobility" City Hall of Stuttgart, Germany Mayor's Policy Office Policy Coordination and Planning Rathaus, Marktplatz 1 D-70173 Stuttgart Telephone: +49 711/ 216 - 85 01 Fax: +49 711/ 216 - 61 05 E-Mail: patrick.daude@stuttgart.de Website: http://www.cities-for-mobility.org <table width=100%> <tr valign=top> <td width=34%>"Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory" <edelman@greenidea.eu> 28.11.2008 12:33 <table border> <tr valign=top> <td bgcolor=white> <div align=center>Bitte antworten an edelman@greenidea.eu</div></table> <td width=65%> <table width=100%> <tr> <td> <div align=right>An</div> <td valign=top>Patrick.Daude@stuttgart.de, Sustran Resource Centre <sustran-discuss@jca.apc.org> <tr> <td> <div align=right>Kopie</div> <td valign=top>rothfuss@cities-for-mobility.net, N.Leyva@stuttgart.de, Wolfgang.Forderer@stuttgart.de <tr> <td> <div align=right>Thema</div> <td valign=top>Re: [sustran] Re: CDM Projects (Clean Development Mechanism) - public tran</table> <table> <tr valign=top> <td> <td></table> </table>   Hi Patrick, hi all, I thank you for the invite to Stuttgart. I believe I understand how it works there, and I have been to a lot of  professional sustainable transport-related events, and I know people who attend CfM events. I have already explained my reasons for opting out, and will hopefully explain this more precisely in my delayed response to Rainer. Just one comment for now, see below. <a href=mailto:Patrick.Daude@stuttgart.de>Patrick.Daude@stuttgart.de</a> wrote: Dear Todd, [...] Our Premium Partners do note have any influence on the topics that are treated within the network. [...] PLEASE, can you help explain their rationale for being involved? Successful businesses don't just randomly create and place imagery related to their brand and products. I may ask Rainer the same question - and I encourage others on this List etc. to answer it - but I will keep this email short. Thanks, T Best wishes, Patrick Daude Coordinator Global Network "Cities for Mobility" City Hall of Stuttgart, Germany Mayor's Policy Office Policy Coordination and Planning Rathaus, Marktplatz 1 D-70173 Stuttgart Telephone: +49 711/ 216 - 85 01 Fax: +49 711/ 216 - 61 05 E-Mail: <a href=mailto:patrick.daude@stuttgart.de>patrick.daude@stuttgart.de</a> Website: <a href="http://www.cities-for-mobility.org/">http://www.cities-for-mobility.org</a> ----- Weitergeleitet von Patrick Daude/OB-S/LHS/DE am 27.11.2008 11:30 ----- <table width=100%> <tr valign=top> <td width=36%>"pdaude78" <a href=mailto:patrick.daude@stuttgart.de><patrick.daude@stuttgart.de></a> Gesendet von: <a href=mailto:notify@yahoogroups.com>notify@yahoogroups.com</a> 27.11.2008 10:33 <td width=63%> <table width=100%> <tr> <td width=12%> <div align=right>An</div> <td width=87% valign=top><a href=mailto:patrick.daude@stuttgart.de>patrick.daude@stuttgart.de</a>, <a href=mailto:wolfgang.forderer@stuttgart.de>wolfgang.forderer@stuttgart.de</a>, <a href=mailto:n.leyva@stuttgart.de>n.leyva@stuttgart.de</a> <tr> <td> <div align=right>Kopie</div> <td valign=top> <tr> <td> <div align=right>Thema</div> <td valign=top>Fwd:  Re: [sustran] Re: CDM Projects (Clean Development Mechanism) - public tran</table> <table width=100%> <tr valign=top> <td width=49%> <td width=50%></table> </table>   <tt> --- In </tt><a href="mailto:Cities-for-Mobility@yahoogroups.com"><tt>Cities-for-Mobility@yahoogroups.com</tt></a><tt>, "Dr. Rainer Rothfuss"</tt><tt> </tt><a href=mailto:rothfuss@...><tt><rothfuss@...></tt></a><tt> wrote:  Dear Todd Edelmann,  sorry for expressing myself so directly but your evaluation of   "Cities for Mobility" has absolutely nothing to do with the reality:  You say: "I am convinced that the whole project - no matter how   inclusive-seeming - is in large part a greenwashing exercise for the   Stuttgart-based automobile industry"  CfM is a municipal initiative and we, as masterminds behind the   network, feel 100% committed to greening urban mobility and not   feeding any kind of industry. But, to be honest, without the money we   receive from some private firms, including our local car producers, we   could not work without membership fees and invite members from Africa,   Asia and Latina America for free (other city networks charge 8.000   Euros per year, no matter from where you are!).  The companies that help us to finance the work of the Municipality   of Stuttgart within the framework of CfM have agreed to give us their   support without asking anything in return. There is not even a council   or something where they could bring in their views or make their   voices heard in order to influence the work of the network. To be   honest, our somewhat depressing perception was that they don't even   care about us as we, with our almost 500 partners from over 60   countries, are not at all important for companies that have an annual   turnover bigger than several small national economies together!!  But, yes you are rigth, we also work on the topic of motorized   individual mobility. But we don't tell anyone what Stuttgart's car   makers would like to hear but just what we need in order to achieve   real benefits for the environmental situation in cities. To cover 100%   of all mobility demands by non-motorized mobility would be ideal - you   may be right! But the fact is that motorized individual mobility will   allways be there. So the crucial question is how we can green it (e.g.   electric mobility with light vehicles and renewable energies - that's   what we are dealing with in ongoing projects). We just dare facing   this up to now inevitable motorized 90% share of the mobility reality   that many others seem to ignore thinking that this way it will   disappear... How about you?  In general, I'm convinced it's better to go there and ask people   what they think and want and really do before you judge them in   public...  But yes, I agree, it's good to have different platforms for working   on the same issues. Each one will bring in new and valuable aspects.   The big question for me just is whether we shall stick to a typical   German way of thinking, I would say, that there is only one right   answer and only one solution to such a complex problem and reality as   is mobility, asking the rest of the world to obey, stop thinking and   to follow it... So I'd be glad if you acknowledged also the value of   the work we have been doing in the past years within CfM for the same   cause as yours. Thanks!  Regards,  Rainer Rothfuss ----------------------- Join the Cities for Mobility online forum:</tt><tt> </tt><a href="http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/Cities-for-Mobility"><tt>http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/Cities-for-Mobility</tt></a><tt> </tt><a href="mailto:Cities-for-Mobility-subscribe@yahoogroups.com"><tt>Cities-for-Mobility-subscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt></a><tt> ----------------------- Dr. Rainer Rothfuss Coordinator of International Relations ----------------------- Coordination Office Cities for Mobility State Capital Stuttgart ----------------------- Postal address: D-70161 Stuttgart GERMANY Tel.: +49-8381-891-68 38 Fax: +49-8381-891-68 39 Mob: +49-177-894 08 04 Skype: rainer.rothfuss rothfuss@...</tt><tt> </tt><a href="http://www.cities-for-mobility.netmessage/"><tt>www.cities-for-mobility.netMessage</tt></a><tt> from "Todd Edelman, Green Idea   Factory" </tt><a href=mailto:edelman@...><tt><edelman@...></tt></a><tt>: > Hi Aashish, > > This is an important question - which could perhaps include "Lots Less > Cars" - and I am sure the three different > administrator/co-administrators will answer it soon. > > For me it is clear that Sustran is about developing world/Global South > issues. Very often the same messages go out on both New Mobility Cafe > and Lots Less Cars, and while there are guidelines to make it simple > for me what I usually do is if it something interesting and useful I > send it to Lots Less and if even more exciting, revolutionary and > important/critical I also send to New Mobility. And of course also to > Sustran if applicable. > > I know that Eric works very hard at keeping the discussion lean and > focused and while I sometimes object if a post I make - especially if > I take a lot of time with it - is rejected, I see the reason for this. > We can always post anything we want on our own Blogs, or of course > start our own discussions. > > Sustran, New Mobility/Lots Less and Sustran also originate in three > different institutions/entities, and perhaps some differences between > them are fundamental. As for me, I do not participate in Cities for > Mobility. It seems that the discussions held there could be useful but > I am convinced that the whole project - no matter how inclusive-seeming > - is in large part a greenwashing exercise for the Stuttgart-based > automobile industry. Cities for Mobility has as one of its "mobility > columns" the private urban car, and in (not just) my eyes this is Old > Mobility and thus presents a fundamental difference from - and > obviously a challenge to - the philosophy behind/purpose of the other > lists. > > Regards, > T > > > > > > Aashish Gupta wrote: >> Dear Eric >> I have gained much from the discussions at New moility cafe, >> Cities-for-Mobility and sustrans. I have a suggestion. Cant we integrate all >> the lists, since all of them have a common focus. It would be much easier, >> as well as enlarge the discussion. >> >> Aashish Gupta >> Department of Humanities and Social Sciences >> Indian Institute of Technology Madras >> >> On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 4:06 PM, Eric Britton   >> </tt><a href=mailto:eric.britton@...><tt><eric.britton@...></tt></a><tt>wrote: >> >> >>> That's a good question Roland. I just tried Knoogling it and came up with >>> some interesting responses. You might wish to give it a try at >>> </tt><a href=http://knoogle.net/><tt>http://knoogle.net</tt></a><tt> . (And if you have suggestions for us as to sources or >>> other details to improve  its operation ,please do . . . Eric Britton >>> >>> >>> >>> On Behalf Of Roland Sapsford >>> Sent: Sunday, 23 November 2008 00:11 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi >>> >>> Is anyone aware of any work underway through the CDM, or in negotiations >>> around its successors, to make it easier for transport projects to be >>> included. >>> >>> As far as I know, the only public transport project so far granted CDM >>> credits is the TransMilenio busway in Bogota.  The main barrier is that >>> transport projects usually involve policy and planning changes as well as >>> projects, and the methodological tests for additionality are hard to meet. >>> >>> Curiously yours >>> Roland Sapsford >>> >>> >>> >>> Roland Sapsford >>> Sustainability Solutions Consulting >>> >>> Climate Change, Cities, Energy, Transport >>> >>> >>> PO Box 11-708, Manners St, Wellington 6142, New Zealand >>> +64-4-9341106(w); +64-4-3851105(h); +64-21-651105(m) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Dr. Rainer Rothfuss wrote: >>> >>> >>> A trav�s del instrumento CDM se pueden financiar proyectos para reducir >>> emisiones de CO2 - tambi�n en el �rea del transporte. >>> >>> >>> M�s informaciones: </tt><a href="http://www.cdm-cooperation.de/7.0.html"><tt>http://www.cdm-cooperation.de/7.0.html</tt></a><tt> >>> >>> Para saber m�s del los proyectos ya implementados en los diferentes pa�ses >>> de Am�rica Latina hay que registrarse como usuario (gratuito). >>> >>> >>> Clean Development Mechanism >>> >>> >>> The Clean Development Mechanism (CDM) is a project-based mechanism, laid >>> down in the Kyoto Protocol within the United Nations Framework Convention >>> on >>> Climate Change (UNFCCC </tt><a href=http://www.unfccc.int/><tt><http://www.unfccc.int/></tt></a><tt> ) in 1997. On the one >>> hand, >>> it serves as a tool for the achievement of companies? or state?s emission >>> targets under minimum costs. On the other hand, it provides an economic >>> incentive for investments in technologies aiming at climate protection. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Rainer Rothfuss >>> >>> >>> ----------------------- >>> Join the Cities for Mobility online forum: >>> </tt><a href="http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/Cities-for-Mobility"><tt>http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/Cities-for-Mobility</tt></a><tt> >>></tt><tt> </tt><a href="mailto:Cities-for-Mobility-subscribe@yahoogroups.com"><tt>Cities-for-Mobility-subscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt></a><a href="http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/Cities-for-MobilityCities-for-Mobility-subscribe@yahoogroups.com"><tt><http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/Cities-for-MobilityCities-for-Mobility-subscribe@yahoogroups.com></tt></a><tt> >>> >>> >>> >>> -------------- next part -------------- >>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >>> Name: not available >>> Type: application/octet-stream >>> Size: 823 bytes >>> Desc: not available >>> Url : >>></tt><tt> </tt><a href="http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20081123/e813df6f/attachment.bin"><tt>http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20081123/e813df6f/attachment.bin</tt></a><tt> >>> -------------------------------------------------------- >>> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via >>> YAHOOGROUPS. >>> >>> Please go to</tt><tt> </tt><a href="http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss"><tt>http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss</tt></a><tt> to >>> join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The >>> yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the >>> real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you >>> can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. >>> >>> ================================================================ >>> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >>> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries >>> (the 'Global South'). >>> >>> >> -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT   >> NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via   >> YAHOOGROUPS.  Please go to   >> </tt><a href="http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss"><tt>http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss</tt></a><tt> to join   >> the  real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The   >> yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot   >> post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site   >> makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. >> >> ================================================================ >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of   >> people-centred,  equitable and sustainable transport with a focus   >> on developing  countries (the 'Global South'). > > > -- > -------------------------------------------- > > Todd Edelman > Green Idea Factory > > Urbanstr. 45 > D-10967 Berlin > Germany > > Skype: toddedelman > Mobile: ++49 0162 814 4081 > Home/Office: ++49 030 7554 0001 > > edelman@... > </tt><a href=http://www.greenidea.eu/><tt>www.greenidea.eu</tt></a><tt> > </tt><a href=http://www.flickr.com/photos/edelman><tt>www.flickr.com/photos/edelman</tt></a><tt> > > Green Idea Factory is a member of World Carfree Network > </tt><a href=http://www.worldcarfree.net/><tt>www.worldcarfree.net</tt></a><tt> > > CAR is over. If you want it. > > "Fort mit der Autostadt und was Neues hingebaut!" - B. Brecht (with > slight modification) --- End forwarded message --- </tt> <tt>-- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Green Idea Factory Urbanstr. 45 D-10967 Berlin Germany Skype: toddedelman Mobile: ++49 0162 814 4081 Home/Office: ++49 030 7554 0001 </tt><a href=mailto:edelman@greenidea.eu><tt>edelman@greenidea.eu</tt></a><tt> </tt><a href=http://www.greenidea.eu/><tt>www.greenidea.eu</tt></a><tt> </tt><a href=http://www.flickr.com/photos/edelman><tt>www.flickr.com/photos/edelman</tt></a><tt> Green Idea Factory is a member of World Carfree Network </tt><a href=http://www.worldcarfree.net/><tt>www.worldcarfree.net</tt></a><tt> CAR is over. If you want it. "Fort mit der Autostadt und was Neues hingebaut!" - B. Brecht (with slight modification)</tt>