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<DIV><FONT size=2>Eric, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I don't disagree with the downsides, but I think you are
missing the point. Car owners and wannabees don't want to know
about downsides, they've already made up their minds. The auto industry has
been very successful at selling an airbrushed dream. The current generation of
car adverts avoid reality, and often show very little of the car itself. They
present an image, an emotion, an illusion. It's the dream that people want,
whether in Mumbai, Rio or Dubai. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>If you don't face up to that, your messages for public
transport will fall on very deaf ears. Your targets don't want to hear what you
have to say, they have ten-foot filters over their ears and eyes. Think Tommy.
As Jack Nicholson put it, they can't handle the truth. And maybe we can't
either. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I think there are just two choices. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>1) Cosh them over the head and coerce them into the mobility
and urban solution we (in our infinite wisdom) think is best. They won't come
willingly.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>2) Engage with them on their terms, see public transport
through their eyes, and do what it takes to make PT what you would choose to
use. Is that even possible? What are the building blocks, and how do we
combine them? How do we make PT part of a lifestyle for 21st Century? Can you
imagine the hero on the bus, a mobile Starbucks, docking your PC on the way to
work or play?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I've been in the PT business for a quarter century and, quite
frankly, much of the time I feel I'm on the side of the angels and in the
clothes of a tramp. We need a makeover on our side.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Yours in friendship, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Brendan.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>_____________________________________________________________________________________<BR>From
Brendan Finn, ETTS Ltd. e-mail : <A
href="mailto:etts@indigo.ie">etts@indigo.ie</A> tel :
+353.87.2530286</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ericbruun@earthlink.net href="mailto:ericbruun@earthlink.net">Eric
Bruun</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org
href="mailto:sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org">Global 'South' Sustainable
Transport</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, July 12, 2007 8:26
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [sustran] Re: Car ownership vs
use and free publictransport (wasMMRDA will file PIL to block Tata's Rs1 lakh
car)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<P>Brendon</P>
<P>You are listing the positive sides of having access to a car. The negative
sides can also encourage transit use, even when the transit</P>
<P>is mediocre. Here is the same list with a negative spin.</P>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>- Image and
self-image Embarassment
because one can only afford a junker</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>- All destinations
available Huge tolls to some places</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>- Always on,
24/7 Can't
drive home after drinking</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>- Quality and
comfort Horrible
heat, noise, etc.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>- Personal
space Lonely
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>- Reliability and
speed Traffic jams
and accidents</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>- Ownership and possession
Payments and licensiing hassles</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Eric Bruun</FONT></DIV>
<P> </P>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 0px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid">-----Original
Message----- <BR>From: Brendan Finn <ETTS@INDIGO.IE><BR>Sent: Jul 12, 2007
12:31 PM <BR>To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport
<SUSTRAN-DISCUSS@LIST.JCA.APC.ORG><BR>Subject: [sustran] Re: Car ownership
vs use and free public transport (wasMMRDA will file PIL to block Tata's Rs1
lakh car) <BR><BR> <ZZZHTML><ZZZHEAD><ZZZMETA
content="text/html;charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type"><ZZZMETA
content="MSHTML 6.00.6000.16481" name="GENERATOR">
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</ZZZHEAD><ZZZBODY bgColor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>In my opinion, cost of public transport is not
a key issue for current car owners and for those who seriously aspire to
become car owners. These people have the affordability to pay
reasonable fares. Giving it away for free will not change their desire to
own or use cars. Instead, it will place a heavy burden on the funding
agencies, and put public transport entirely at the mercy of political view
and expedience of whatever party or minister is in power. (<FONT face=Arial
size=2>If you want free transport to help the poor, that's a different
argument, I'd still argue it's bad policy. </FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If you want to offer a serious alternative to
the car, you must face up what owners and wannabe-owners
associate with the car : </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>- Image and self-image</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>- All destinations available</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>- Always on, 24/7</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>- Quality and comfort</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>- Personal space</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>- Reliability and speed</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>- Ownership and possession</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Public transport does not have to win on every
one of these factors, but if it loses badly across the board, it has zero
credibility with this target group. And if you then offer a loser service
for free, it just proves to them that it wasn't worth paying for in the
first place. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Until public transport can meet the mobility
and self-respect aspirations of people who travel, it is reduced to "the
thing you have to use when you could not get what you want". Banning car
ownership, sale or use will just make very many people very frustrated. In
this, politicians are correct to guage the public mood and avoid unrest and
backlash. That doesn't excuse the same politicians for poor transport policy
in the first place. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If you take the 7 factors above (or any other
list you wish to make), how many public transport systems that you know
perform well across the board for an entire metropolitan area? Even if they
do, are they winning mode share back from cars? What choices are teenagers
and 20-30 year olds making?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I don't intend to be defeatist here, just
realistic. If we have the tools to do the job, fine, maybe we need to use
them a bit smarter. If not, then we'd better channel our energies into
designing some new ones and showing that they work at
city-scale.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>With best wishes, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Brendan.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>_____________________________________________________________________________________<BR>From
Brendan Finn, ETTS Ltd. e-mail : <A
href="mailto:etts@indigo.ie">etts@indigo.ie</A> tel :
+353.87.2530286</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ashok.sreenivas@gmail.com
href="mailto:ashok.sreenivas@gmail.com">Ashok Sreenivas</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org
href="mailto:sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org">Global 'South' Sustainable
Transport</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, July 12, 2007 5:05
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [sustran] Re: Car ownership
vs use and free public transport (wasMMRDA will file PIL to block Tata's
Rs1 lakh car)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=Arial>IMO, a free (and of course reliable,
comfortable) public transport (PT) may not shift *existing* car /
motorcycle users to public transport, but it will have a significant
impact on *potential* car / motorcycle users. A common phenomenon in
"developing" countries like ours with easy access to 2-wheelers is the
hierarchy of a PT user wanting to buy a 2-wheeler (and similarly 2-wheeler
to 4-wheeler) as soon as he can afford it because the PT systems are so
inconvenient and uncomfortable. I think this steady leaching of PT users
as the economy grows can be arrested by not only improving PT but making
it free (or very very cheap) so that the "entry barrier" to motorized
transport is high.</FONT><BR><BR>On 12/07/2007 8:24 PM, Carlos F. Pardo
wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid469640A9.6060006@gmail.com type="cite">I'm not
sure... People who use cars and pay gasoline and parking will not really
be shifting to public transport if it's free (instead of having a low
fare). Free public transport can be an instrument to improve access for
the entire population, especially those who cannot afford it and go by
bicycle or walking long distances. I think what would really generate
mode shifts to public transport is that it is comfortable and reliable,
and that it has as much access around the city as possible. We once used
the word "fashionable" to describe this type of transport, but some
people thought it was not an appropriate term.<BR><BR>I think we all
agree that car ownership and use must be charged at real costs,
including all externalities, social and environmental (the 1 lakh car
would be much more expensive if these costs were included). Push (from
the car) and pull (to sustainable transport), and start planning from
the demand side rather than supply (infrastructure).<BR><BR>Best
regards,<BR><PRE class=moz-signature cols="72">Carlos</PRE><BR><BR>Lee Schipper
wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:4695DA870200003800010B82@HERMES.wri.org
type="cite"><PRE wrap="">Not clear free trnasport really gets those who otherwise would use cars
to use free trnasport. Seattle was unable to really do this (in the down
town area) but did a great job of providing visitors like me with free
trips around town. I think the last line below says it all — make sure
the cost of using cars reflects all of societies costs and make sure
organization and technical aspects of the collectiv system really
provides a faster, safer, less costly alternative!.
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE wrap="">Sunny <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:sunny.enie@gmail.com"><sunny.enie@gmail.com></A> 7/12/2007 4:29:47 AM >>>
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=""><ZZZ!---->Yes, Chuwa has a point. Providing free public transport will be a good
option and it could be financed thru parking charges and car taxes. Just
to add to the examples mentioned Perth, Australia has this service
called CAT and they are like 3 different circular routes and the service
is free and I was told that it is funded by the parking charges.
Bangkok on the other hand provides free shuttle service to some of its
skytrain (BTS) stations. IMO, Bangkok could also provide free NMT
(rickshaws) into the small streets (sois) if this could be done the use
of motorbike taxi could be reduced to a great extent.
Singapore is definitely an example and it is also worth noting that
people seldom complain of the economic instruments as they have
affordable public transport and other alternatives to a car.
So, in the end it again comes to putting more financial burden on car
USERS and also to some extent on car owners. Making the car travel hard
and at the same time providing affordable, safe and convenient
(sustainable) public transport would be the solution.
kind regards
Santhosh K. (Sunny) Kodukula
Project Assistant
GTZ Sustainable Urban Transport Project (SUTP)
Room 0942, Transport Division, UN-ESCAP ESCAP UN Building
Rajadamnern Nok Rd. Bangkok 10200, Thailand
Tel: +66 (0) 2 - 288 1321
Fax: +66 (0) 2 - 280 6042
Mobile: +66 (0) 84–113-0181
e-mail: <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:santhosh.kodukula@sutp.org">santhosh.kodukula@sutp.org</A>
Website: <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="http://www.sutp.org">www.sutp.org</A>
Skype: sunny_nwho
chuwa wrote: Thanks to everyone, this thread has been highly
stimulating and educating for me.
I hope not to distract the discussion but just chance upon this article
(<A class=moz-txt-link-freetext href="http://thetyee.ca/Views/2007/07/05/NoFares1/">http://thetyee.ca/Views/2007/07/05/NoFares1/</A>) which make a interesting
connection back to the current discussion of banning cheap cars. What
can be more compelling than "cheap car"? What if instead of banning
"cheap car", there is someone offering free & good public buses in
Mumbai?
To go all the ay, perhaps it can be a profitable business model to
offer this service for free in exchange of an opportunity to be in touch
with the mass. Like JCDecaux sponsor street furniture, or Google offer
excellent free search engine for the world, both to capture a critical
"touch point' with the mass.
In Singapore, there are several "free" bus routes linking large
shopping malls and MRT stations. Mentioned in the article, high quality
free bus service in Hasselt, Belgium has been expended 500% since it
started in 1996 and now has a ridership close to 4 Millions.
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></ZZZBODY></ZZZHTML></BLOCKQUOTE>
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