<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version 6.0.4630.0"> <TITLE>RE: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY>  Markus, Sorry if my dogma/logic posting was rather glib. I don't claim to be an expert. I just have my doubts about the claim that traffic will expand to fill the available road space is true. There are thousands of miles of virtually empty roads even here in the UK. It seems to me that misguided priority rules, limited junction capacity and artificial barriers to traffic flow and dispersal are at the root of many of our congestion problems. (From a forthcoming article in Traffic Technology International:) I used to commute between London and Cambridge by National Express. Buses too have to idle, often pointlessly, at lights. Approaching the London end of the M11, 6-mile-long tailbacks were routine. It wasn't just that 3 lanes became two and then one. As we inched east along the North Circular, the cause of the extended queue became apparent: lights at Redbridge roundabout. Each leg had its allotted green time. Although we were the main stream, we got just 12 seconds. Reaction times alone squander 13% of every minute … Priority from the right, as at roundabouts, is wrong too because it denies our instinct to give way to people who were there first. Moreover, it can produce a "need" for lights at roundabouts ... And the authorities blame us for climate change! BW Martin -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca.apc.org [<A HREF="mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca.apc.org">mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca.apc.org</A>] On Behalf Of Markus Sander Sent: 07 May 2007 08:56 To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Subject: [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques On Sun, May 06, 2007 at 11:04:30PM +0100, Martin Cassini wrote: > Could the assertion that the long term effect of eliminating idling > "will be longer ways, etc" have more to do with dogma than logic? No, just transportation science and mathematics. Could it be that your statements base on lack of the first one? If you know that the average time people participate in traffic is constant for hundrets of years, many transportation issuses get very simple and obvisious. --  (c) markus -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to <A HREF="http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss">http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss</A> to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). </BODY> </HTML>