21 March 2007 Alan, Sorry that was a typo. I meant they run in the centre of the road. I don't think yahoogroups permits attachments but I will send you a drawing in a separate mail. Meanwhile I will try to describe it: Nearest to the edge of the road is the Footpath (for pedestrians) Next is the cycle track (still under way) This is followed by two lanes for motorized traffic (other than BRT buses) Finally the BRT bus lane segregated from other traffic by 6 inch tall ferro-concrete blocks screwed into the road surface. The bus stops for BRT are located at about every 600 meters at road junctions and meant for serving BRT buses moving in one direction only hence they are on located between the second MV (motor vehicle) lane and the BRT lane. To accommodate the width the road is slightly broadened at the junctions and a BRT overtaking lane is also accommodated to enable express buses to overtake the buses standing on the bus stop. Bus stops are before the junction, which enables passengers to get off the bus and cross on the zebra crossing to reach the footpath. This is the design but presently to keep the dedicated lane active, the ordinary PMT (Pune Municipal Transport) buses are allowed to use the dedicated lanes. Many details need to be worked out and hopefully will be -- including enforcement to ensure the zebra crossings are not over run by vehicles stopping for the red light, signage, cycle tracks, BRT bus stops with facility for fine buses to be move close enough to bus stops for "same level boarding" (presently through old habits they park about 6 feet away making nonsense of the level boarding concept.) Hope this give you a better idea. Will try to send photos. -- Sujit <div>On 3/21/07, Alan Howes <<a href="mailto:alan@ourpeagreenboat.co.uk"> alan@ourpeagreenboat.co.uk</a>> wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> <div bgcolor="#ffffff"> <div>I'm interested to hear that this is done in Quito. I had considered it a possibility - but my worry was about problems at junctions and the like.  Needs thinking about.  Anyone out there who can advise?</div> <div> </div> <div>Sujit - you say the bus lanes in Pune are "in the central" - can you be more specific? Or even better, point us to some photos of the scheme in action!</div> <div> </div> <div>Alan</div> <div> </div> <div>-- Alan Howes, Perthshire, Scotland</div> <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;"><div> <div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">----- Original Message ----- </div> <div style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"> From: <a title="lutman@globalnet.co.uk" href="mailto:lutman@globalnet.co.uk" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">Peter Lutman</a> </div> <div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">To: <a title="sri@pn1.vsnl.net.in" href="mailto:sri@pn1.vsnl.net.in" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> sri@pn1.vsnl.net.in</a> ; <a title="sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org" href="mailto:sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">Global 'South' Sustainable Transport</a> </div> <div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 11:16 AM</div> <div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">Subject: [sustran] Re: BRT - switchover lanes .... alternatively,why not run on the other side of the road-divider?</div> <div> </div> <div>I believe that the 'wrong-way' working on dedicated, segregated bus lanes is used in Quito and elsewhere in South America so that (trolley)buses with doors on the right can unload and load at central platforms. It seems to work well, but I am not sure what arrangements would be necessary if the vehicles had to leave the busway and join general traffic on a section of the route.</div> <div> </div> <div>Peter Lutman</div></div> <hr> <div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">----- Original Message ----- </div> <div style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"> From: <a title="sri@giaspn01.vsnl.net.in" href="mailto:sri@giaspn01.vsnl.net.in" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">Prof J G Krishnayya</a> </div> <div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">To: <a title="sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org" href="mailto:sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> 'Global 'South' Sustainable Transport'</a> </div> <div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 11:26 AM</div> <div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">Subject: [sustran] Re: BRT - switchover lanes .... alternatively,why not run on the other side of the road-divider?</div> <div> </div> <div> Just an idea. Please shoot it down (with reasons) if it is impractical for India .   Traffic in India drives on the left side of a road. In the case of a divided highway, one proposal is to run the BRTS in a separate lane (taking the place of the "Fast Lane", i.e. to the right hand edge of the left half of the road. This means that entry and exit from the busses would have to be to and from fresh islands in the road (since doors are on the left side of the bus) or else fresh doors would have to be cut into the bus, so that passengers can board and get off onto a central island.. Actually, for reasons of flexibility, and if these are "Long" busses, with centre doors, it seems to me to make sense to strengthen the body and cut doors out on the right side of the bus. Then a single stop or station would exist at each location for both directions.   An alternative, which I have not seen mentioned yet, is to run the BRTS busses on the WRONG SIDE OF THE ROAD. That is, busses going north would run in the grade-separated, "Fast lane" of the southbound side of the road. And busses going South would run in the fast lane of the northbound side of the divided highway.  Then one would use the normal doors (on the left side of the bus), thus eliminating any need to strengthen the chassis.   Pune experience within days of the start of BRTS makes it clear that with our population density, and general attitude towards discipline in general, Grade-Separation between the normal roadway (of at least 8 inches) and the BRTS lanes, is essential to avoid many, many fatal accidents.  If the BRTS lane is grade-separated, there should be no problem about the BRTS busses running in the opposite direction to the regular stream of traffic.   Contra-ideas, anyone?   J G Krishnayya ============== <div> Prof J G Krishnayya Director , Systems Research Institute, 17-A Gultekdi, PUNE 411037, India <a href="http://www.sripune.org" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">www.sripune.org </a>                 Tel +91-20-2426-0323 <a href="mailto:jkrishnayya@yahoo.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">jkrishnayya@yahoo.com </a>       Res 020-2636-3930 <a href="mailto:sri@giaspn01.vsnl.net.in" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">sri@giaspn01.vsnl.net.in </a>       Fax +91-20-2444-7902</div></div></blockquote></div> -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss" target="_blank"> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss</a> to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). </blockquote></div> -- ------------------------------------------------------ Sujit Patwardhan <a href="mailto:sujit@vsnl.com">sujit@vsnl.com</a> <a href="mailto:sujitjp@gmail.com"> sujitjp@gmail.com</a> "Yamuna", ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007 India Tel: 25537955 ----------------------------------------------------- Hon. Secretary: Parisar <a href="http://www.parisar.org"> www.parisar.org</a> ------------------------------------------------------ Founder Member: PTTF (Pune Traffic & Transportation Forum) <a href="http://www.pttf.net">www.pttf.net</a> ------------------------------------------------------