20 March 2007 Dear JG, I thought you had seen the BRT being implemented (even if shoddily) in Pune. The dedicated bus lanes are in the central as you describe: Traffic in India drives on the left side of a road. In the case of a divided highway, one proposal is to run the BRTS in a separate lane (taking the place of the "Fast Lane", i.e. to the right hand edge of the left half of the road. This means that entry and exit from the busses would have to be to and from fresh islands in the road (since doors are on the left side of the bus) or else fresh doors would have to be cut into the bus, so that passengers can board and get off onto a central island..Do take a look. The design is good and will eventually start working but it seems such a waste to execute it so badly as Pune Municipal Corporation is doing. Already people traveling in these BRT buses are experiencing something unique - seeing the buses move faster than other auto vehicles on the road, and that's how it should be. Regards, -- Sujit <div>On 3/17/07, Prof J G Krishnayya <<a href="mailto:sri@giaspn01.vsnl.net.in">sri@giaspn01.vsnl.net.in</a>> wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> <div bgcolor="white" link="blue" vlink="blue" lang="EN-US"> <div> Just an idea. Please shoot it down (with reasons) if it is impractical for India .   Traffic in India drives on the left side of a road. In the case of a divided highway, one proposal is to run the BRTS in a separate lane (taking the place of the "Fast Lane", i.e. to the right hand edge of the left half of the road. This means that entry and exit from the busses would have to be to and from fresh islands in the road (since doors are on the left side of the bus) or else fresh doors would have to be cut into the bus, so that passengers can board and get off onto a central island.. Actually, for reasons of flexibility, and if these are "Long" busses, with centre doors, it seems to me to make sense to strengthen the body and cut doors out on the right side of the bus. Then a single stop or station would exist at each location for both directions.   An alternative, which I have not seen mentioned yet, is to run the BRTS busses on the WRONG SIDE OF THE ROAD. That is, busses going north would run in the grade-separated, "Fast lane" of the southbound side of the road. And busses going South would run in the fast lane of the northbound side of the divided highway.  Then one would use the normal doors (on the left side of the bus), thus eliminating any need to strengthen the chassis.   Pune experience within days of the start of BRTS makes it clear that with our population density, and general attitude towards discipline in general, Grade-Separation between the normal roadway (of at least 8 inches) and the BRTS lanes, is essential to avoid many, many fatal accidents.  If the BRTS lane is grade-separated, there should be no problem about the BRTS busses running in the opposite direction to the regular stream of traffic.   Contra-ideas, anyone?   J G Krishnayya ============== <div> Prof J G Krishnayya Director , Systems Research Institute, 17-A Gultekdi, PUNE 411037, India <a href="http://www.sripune.org" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">www.sripune.org</a>                  Tel +91-20-2426-0323 <a href="mailto:jkrishnayya@yahoo.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">jkrishnayya@yahoo.com </a>       Res 020-2636-3930 <a href="mailto:sri@giaspn01.vsnl.net.in" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">sri@giaspn01.vsnl.net.in </a>       Fax +91-20-2444-7902 </div>   -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+sri=<a href="mailto:pn1.vsnl.net.in@list.jca.apc.org" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">pn1.vsnl.net.in@list.jca.apc.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+sri=pn1.vsnl.net.in@list.jca.apc.org" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">sustran-discuss-bounces+sri=pn1.vsnl.net.in@list.jca.apc.org</a> ] On Behalf Of Alan Howes Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 6:00 PM To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport; <a href="mailto:edelman@greenidea.info" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">edelman@greenidea.info</a> Subject: [sustran] Re: BRT - switchover lanes   Great minds ...   I've just been reading the organisational bits of Bina's post rather more carefully. I still don't have a feel for how much clout the CWG has - OK the Gov of Maharashtra has accepted the CWG report - but does that guarantee action (not just commissioning consultants, but committing to implementation).  And on a matter of detail, Bina says - "we at the MTSU have already submitted our report to the Government of Maharashtra- as long back as the 6th of February 2007" and then "The CWG Report was formally presented on the 6th of February, 2007, to all the departments ..." <div>   </div> <div> So I assume the consultants have not yet been appointed.  I can't see them taking less than six months to report, and I would guess at least nine months for implementation, even at Western rates of action - what price bus lanes by the end of this year? </div> <div>   </div> <div> Is the MTSU report the same as the CWG report? When was the CWG formed? Sorry to ask so many questions! </div> <div>   </div> <div> Regards, Alan </div> <div>   </div> <div>   </div> -- Alan Howes Associate Transport Planner Colin Buchanan 4 St Colme Street Edinburgh      EH3 6AA Scotland email:  <a href="mailto:alan.howes@cbuchanan.co.uk" title="mailto:alan.howes@cbuchanan.co.uk" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> alan.howes@cbuchanan.co.uk</a> tel:      (0)131 226 4693 (switchboard)            (0)7952 464335  (mobile) fax:     (0)131 220 0232 www: <a href="http://www.cbuchanan.co.uk/" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.cbuchanan.co.uk/</a> <div>   </div>   <div style="margin-left: 0.5in; text-align: center;" align="center"> <hr align="center" size="2" width="100%"> </div> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+alan.howes=<a href="mailto:cbuchanan.co.uk@list.jca.apc.org" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">cbuchanan.co.uk@list.jca.apc.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+alan.howes=cbuchanan.co.uk@list.jca.apc.org" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">sustran-discuss-bounces+alan.howes=cbuchanan.co.uk@list.jca.apc.org </a>] On Behalf Of Brendan Finn Sent: 16 March 2007 11:32 To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport; <a href="mailto:edelman@greenidea.info" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">edelman@greenidea.info</a> Subject: [sustran] Re: BRT - switchover lanes <div> Dear Alan, </div> <div>   </div> <div> I think that's an excellent rule on three grounds : </div> <div>   </div> <div> 1) It is simple and unambiguous </div> <div>   </div> <div> 2) The participants always know which situation they are in, and whether they should yield. It is highly visible when a potential yield situation arises, no need for control systems. </div> <div>   </div> <div> 3) The priority is to clear the bus stopping place to make room for incoming buses, so it is right that buses leaving the stopping area should have priority. </div> <div>   </div> <div> With best wishes, </div> <div>   </div> <div>   </div> <div> Brendan. </div> <div> _____________________________________________________________________________________ >From Brendan Finn, ETTS Ltd.   e-mail : <a href="mailto:etts@indigo.ie" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">etts@indigo.ie</a>   tel : +353.87.2530286 </div> <blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color black; border-width: medium medium medium 1.5pt; margin: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt;"> <div> ----- Original Message ----- </div> <div> <p style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; margin-left: 0.5in; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;"> From: <a href="mailto:Alan.Howes@cbuchanan.co.uk" title="Alan.Howes@cbuchanan.co.uk" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> Alan Howes</a> </div> <div> To: <a href="mailto:edelman@greenidea.info" title="edelman@greenidea.info" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">edelman@greenidea.info</a> ; <a href="mailto:sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org" title="sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">Global 'South' Sustainable Transport</a> </div> <div> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 10:52 AM </div> <div> Subject: [sustran] Re: (NEWS) Mumbai's BRTS project turns into a joke! </div> <div>   </div> I thought someone might think that! I take it what concerns you is the (two per stop) conflicts between buses moving in opposite directions? Remember that the buses will be moving slowly as they are about to stop or are just leaving the stop. I don't know offhand what the maximum bus flows are likely to be, but I would not have thought that even in Mumbai there would be more than 120 buses per hour - correct me someone if I'm wrong (I could do a check, but it would take some time). At that level I see no problem with a simple "give way" arrangement (e.g. incoming buses always give way to leaving buses) - you could have traffic signals, but IMO that would be an unnecessary expense. Regards, Alan -- Alan Howes Associate Transport Planner Colin Buchanan 4 St Colme Street Edinburgh      EH3 6AA Scotland email:  <a href="mailto:alan.howes@cbuchanan.co.uk" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">alan.howes@cbuchanan.co.uk</a> tel:      (0)131 226 4693 (switchboard)            (0)7952 464335  (mobile) fax:     (0)131 220 0232 www: <a href="http://www.cbuchanan.co.uk/" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.cbuchanan.co.uk/</a> -----Original Message----- From: <a href="mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+alan.howes=cbuchanan.co.uk@list.jca.apc.org" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">sustran-discuss-bounces+alan.howes=cbuchanan.co.uk@list.jca.apc.org </a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+alan.howes=cbuchanan.co.uk@list.jca.apc.org" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">sustran-discuss-bounces+alan.howes=cbuchanan.co.uk@list.jca.apc.org </a>] On Behalf Of Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory Sent: 16 March 2007 10:44 To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Subject: [sustran] Re: (NEWS) Mumbai's BRTS project turns into a joke! Alan Howes wrote: > [...] The problem, however, with with-flow bus lanes placed immediately to the left of the median is that, assuming bus stops are on the median, the bus doors are on the wrong side (an expensive problem to fix). MMRDA explained to me an ingenious proposal for overcoming this - at the stops the buses would swap sides, crossing the median through a gap immediately before and after the stop. This sounds perfectly feasible to me - the only potential problem I foresee is that the necessary gaps will be used (illegally) by other traffic, or even pedestrians (who get a pretty raw deal in terms of getting across the road). >   That seems really dangerous unless there are electronic safety systems, etc. Am I missing something? - T -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn� 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 Skype: toddedelman <a href="mailto:edelman@greenidea.eu" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">edelman@greenidea.eu</a> <a href="http://www.worldcarfree.net/onthetrain" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.worldcarfree.net/onthetrain</a> Green Idea Factory, a member of World Carfree Network </blockquote> </div> </div> ............................................................................................................................................................................................ 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