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<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>Hmm. While spending my weekend at the top of a hill in the rain [Matheran], away from email, my ears were burning somewhat. And on my only-moderately-frightening drive there and back (I was being driven) I was able to cogitate on the matter further. I agree very much with something Daryl had to say - </FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>------------ Daryl Oster ------------------</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The solutions are education AND strict enforcement of reasoned rules, and<BR>this must be of vehicle users of all types AND pedestrians. I believe (but<BR>offer no proof) that if ALL traffic on a few representational streets,<BR>alleys, sidewalks, etc. in the city were to be strictly and completely<BR>enforced at ALL times to observe the law, that the users of the orderly<BR>street would quickly learn that it is in their best interests to obey<BR>reasoned rules even where they are not strictly enforced.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>--------------------------------------------------------</FONT></DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></DIV>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Seems to me that safe, efficient use of a road transport network requires a "community spirit" - a recognition that, for the good of the greater number, I (as a road user) may have to lose a few seconds here and there. This spirit exists in most parts of the "developed world" that I have seen (though perhaps only recently i</FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>n Italy, and I might exclude Israel). But it certainly does not exist here in India, nor did it in Saudi Arabia (Dubai was marginally better). And we all agree that Safe and Efficient are worthwhile goals, don't we?</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>There does, indeed, seem to be no action whatsoever here on the part of the traffic police to try to improve driving standards, so drivers (and cyclists, and pedestrians) assume they can get away with any level of selfishness and recklessness - indeed, it is accepted as the norm. And I think the "Dutchman's" article illustrated this quite nicely - though I am happy to withdraw the description "excellent". (Reads very much like many similar coming out of Saudi.)</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Just an example - on my way out of Mumbai Saturday, on a major, restricted-access divided highway, we ran into a traffic jam. Turns out it was caused by road works (casually conducted and totally unsigned). So quite a few motorists decided to turn back and drive against the flow, either on the left of the carriageway, on the right, or down the middle. Result - even more chaos and delay (and accident risk).</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>The infrastructure here is great - or was when it was built. The problem is with its maintenance and management (do any Mumbaikars on the list expect all the potholes to be filled in by Aug 30, as the court has ruled?). And I do feel that (while making some allowances) it's legitimate for those with international experience to point this out, as well as trying to point out that there are better solutions to urban mobility than relying on the private car. (Surely after all, the whole point of this list is to share experience from all points of view, neither exclusively "developed" or "developing", "North" or "South", as applied to the "Global South"? Or is it?)</P>
<DIV>Alan.<BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dharavi Bus Depot, Mumbai - +91 22 2404 4118</FONT></DIV>
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<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> Debi Goenka [mailto:debi.cat@gmail.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sun 27/08/2006 17:15<BR><B>To:</B> Global 'South' Sustainable Transport<BR><B>Cc:</B> sustrandiscusslist; Alan Howes<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [sustran] Re: Driving in Bangalore / India - patronizing, offensive,heavy handed and counter-productive<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I am rather amused by all this fuss over a light hearted piece written by an annoymous "Dutchman" who may not even exist, and my amusement is increased by the fact that I have now have to consider myself as a native activist from India, land of snakes and tigers! (Has anyone seen the Indian rope trick recently? I also stay on the 5th floor, not too far from the elevator, and would be happy to show this to anyone who cares to drive in).</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>And on a more serious note, as Alan has observed after two weeks in Mumbai, life on the roads is quite different here, and unless people on this list make allowances for this, we will never achieve common ground. </FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>(Do get in touch Alan, whilst you are still alive in Mumbai - would love to meet over a pothole :) )</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Cheers!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Debi Goenka</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>B 502 Glengate</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Hiran. Gardens, Powai</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>India</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Mobile - +919820086404</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>From:</B> <A title=robert_cowherd@yahoo.com href="mailto:robert_cowherd@yahoo.com">robert cowherd</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org href="mailto:eric.britton@ecoplan.org,">Global 'South' Sustainable Transport eric.britton@ecoplan.org, </A></DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, August 25, 2006 7:26 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> [sustran] Re: Driving in Bangalore / India - patronizing, offensive,heavy handed and counter-productive</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>I was too perplexed and annoyed (I deleted the message at the "idiot"<BR>pedestrians comment in the fifth paragraph) to be so offended.<BR><BR>Though cleverly written, this is the set of impressions I would expect<BR>someone to have after two weeks not two years. The disparaging attitude<BR>towards "chaos" doesn't give me much hope for selling shared space concepts<BR>a la Moderman. <BR><BR>Robert Cowherd<BR>Associate Professor, Wentworth Institute of Technology<BR>Boston, USA<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>On 8/25/06 7:51 AM, "Eric Britton" <<A href="mailto:eric.britton@ecoplan.org">eric.britton@ecoplan.org</A>> wrote:<BR><BR>> No, not "excellent" at all. Sorry but I do not think this is very funny. It<BR>> does<BR>> no good and illuminates nothing useful<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> To the contrary I find it patronizing, offensive, heavy handed and<BR>> counter-productive. (After all we are here for a reason, aren't we? Or is it<BR>> all<BR>> about guffawing at the feckless 'natives' for their primitive ways? Someone<BR>> help<BR>> me here.) . <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> I do not think that this alpha, rather puerile and distinctly uncultured piece<BR>> belongs here. I see it as a dinner piece for a group of hearty guffawing<BR>> colonials after their fifth beer.<BR>> <BR>> (I guess that some of you are not going to invite me to your next white man's<BR>> party, eh?)<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Eric Britton (And here I am pleased to give anyone who does not like what I<BR>> say<BR>> here my full contact information so that you can mail, call or come here and<BR>> look me in the eye and tell me what you think of me and my views. I live on<BR>> the<BR>> fifth floor, door to the right of the elevator.<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> With all good wishes<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Eric Britton<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> New Mobility Advisory/Briefs. Don't know about them yet?<BR>> <BR>> Maybe you should have a look at <A href="http://newmobilitybriefs.org/">http://newmobilitybriefs.org</A><BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> The New Mobility Agenda: on line at <A href="http://www.newmobility.org/">http://www.newmobility.org</A><BR>> <BR>> Le Frene, 8/10 rue Joseph Bara 75006 Paris, France<BR>> <BR>> Tel: +331 4326 1323 +338 7044 0343 Skype: newmobility<BR>> <BR>> E: <<A href="mailto:contact@newmobility.org">mailto:contact@newmobility.org</A>> <A href="mailto:contact@newmobility.org">contact@newmobility.org</A><BR>> Backup: <<A href="mailto:fekbritton@gmail.com">mailto:fekbritton@gmail.com</A>> <A href="mailto:fekbritton@gmail.com">fekbritton@gmail.com</A><BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <<A href="http://ericbritton.org/">http://ericbritton.org/</A>><BR>> <BR>> <<A href="http://www.ecoplan.org/">http://www.ecoplan.org/</A>> Technology. Economy. Society.<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Francis Eric Knight Britton<BR>> Innovation consultancy/advisory<BR>> <BR>> The Commons<BR>> EcoPlan Association 1901<BR>> 8/10, rue Joseph Bara<BR>> 75006 Paris, France<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <<A href="mailto:eric.britton@ecoplan.org">mailto:eric.britton@ecoplan.org</A>> <A href="mailto:eric.britton@ecoplan.org">eric.britton@ecoplan.org</A><BR>> <<A href="mailto:fekbritton@gmail.com">mailto:fekbritton@gmail.com</A>> <A href="mailto:fekbritton@gmail.com">fekbritton@gmail.com</A><BR>> <BR>> <BR>> tel: <BR>> tel2:<BR>> mobile: <BR>> Skype ID:<BR>> <BR>> +338 7044 0343<BR>> +331 4326 1323<BR>> +336 7321 5868<BR>> ericbritton <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> --------------------------------------------------------<BR>> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS.<BR>> <BR>> Please go to <A href="http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss">http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss</A> to join<BR>> the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups<BR>> version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real<BR>> sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can).<BR>> Apologies for the confusing arrangement.<BR>> <BR>> ================================================================<BR>> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable<BR>> and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global<BR>> South'). <BR><BR><BR>-------------------------------------------------------- <BR>IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. <BR><BR>Please go to <A href="http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss">http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss</A> to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement.<BR><BR>================================================================<BR>SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). </DIV></BODY><!--[object_id=#cbuchanan.co.uk#]--><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT color=#0000ff>
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