<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> </head> <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> Daryl I went through both the excel sheet and your web-site in some detail. I must say ETT sounds like a very interesting idea and best luck with its realization. However, I have some questions about your excel sheet and the premise behind it. 1. What kind of travel are you targeting for ETT (and therefore, the calculations in the sheet)? Is it inter-city/country long distance travel, or is it your mundane everyday commute? 2. If it is the former (long distance travel), I am not even sure we should be comparing walking and cycling with cars as they are obviously not suitable modes (unless, of course, you are an adventure freak!). Here, the right thing to compare would be against trains, buses, air etc. However, unfortunately I don't have the numbers for them,  perhaps others on the list can help. 3. If it is the latter (daily commute), I don't think food and lodging should be considered as a factor at all. After all, I would like to have a house in the city/town I live in, irrespective of how I travel about the town! Similarly, I guess I would like to eat about as well either ways, as we're now not talking of walkathons or bikeathons but manageable 3-5km bike rides or 1-3km walks. Doing so changes the picture dramatically between cars, bikes and walking. Now, even if you consider cars as having 0 environmental impact (similar to walking, cycling), biking and cycling become much better than cars. Of course, ETT still wins. I have attached my version of the sheet, with one row (row #45) added for this comparison. 4. About safety, you say that the per-mile risk of death on bicycles is 7.8 times that of cars. But this is because the bicyclists are being hit by the same cars!! Reduce the cars (or at least ensure they don't come in each others way) and so will the fatalities. So, it is not a independent variable as the statisticians (Disclaimer: I am not one) may call it. Regards Ashok Daryl Oster wrote: <blockquote cite="mid200604031943.k33JgtZZ028138@njbrsmtp2.vzwmail.net" type="cite"> <pre wrap=""> This attached spreadsheet illustrates why cars are gaining in market share in developing countries, they have far greater VALUE than muscle powered transport, and contribute LESS environmental impact. Even if you value your time at zero; if you walk and plan on traveling more than 317 miles in your life (but less than 32,253 miles) it pays to invest in a bike for favorable environmental impact reasons alone. If you walk, and plan on traveling more than 8755 miles in your life, then it pays to invest in a car for favorable environmental impact reasons alone - even if you place no value on your time. If you travel by bike, and plan on traveling more than 32,253 miles in your life, then it pays to invest in a car for favorable environmental impact reasons alone - even if you place no value on your time. If you place a $15/hour value on your time, then the bike takes only 91 miles to justify the impact of production vs walking, and the car only 2,361miles. The car compaired with a bike is justified for those who value their time more than $15/hour if they plan on more than 7275 miles of travel. NOTE -- this analysis ignores the added value obtained if the car is used to transport it's full capacity of 5 persons -- the impact breakeven point vs walking or biking is MUCH faster if the car is used to it's full capacity. I hope that some of the experts on this list can provide numbers so I may include air, bus, and train on this chart, and see the comparisons to cars, bikes, walking, and ETT. Daryl Oster (c) 2006  all rights reserved.  ETT, et3, MoPod, "space travel on earth" e-tube, e-tubes, and the logos thereof are trademarks and or service marks of et3.com Inc.  For licensing information contact: POB 1423, Crystal River FL 34423-1423  (352)257-1310, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:et3@et3.com">et3@et3.com</a> , <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.et3.com">www.et3.com</a> </pre> <pre wrap=""> <hr size="4" width="90%"> ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). Because of the history of the list, the main focus is on urban transport policy in Asia.</pre> </blockquote> </body> </html>