[sustran] Re: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Metro Rail in Bogota !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Zvi Leve]

The idea of a Metro-rail solution for Bogota
<https://colombiareports.com/bogota-presents-new-metro-plan-70-years-1st-proposal/>
has been discussed for more than 70 years now, and let's not forget that
this is a city of  over 8 million people
<https://www.pri.org/stories/2015-10-21/can-modern-megacity-bogot-get-without-subway>
!

One of the goals of TransMilenio was to bring 'structure' to parts of the
city which were outside of the formal economy, and presumably the goal of
the metro project is to add an even more powerful structuring element. It
is important to note that land tenure is very opaque in many parts of
Bogota. I suspect that the metro rail will serve areas which have clear
title of ownership so as to stimulate 'private' development.

Another point worth noting is that Penalosa seems to be facing growing
discontent this term as mayor
<https://thecitypaperbogota.com/bogota/bogotas-mayor-penalosa-faces-recall-of-mandate/15848>.
According to this article
<http://www.latinamericanpost.com/index.php/global-issues/8583-how-are-penalosa-s-plans-impacting-the-development-in-bogota>,
despite the claims about the metro project he continues to invest
significantly in TransMilenio: "Despite constant complains and protests, it
seems that Peñalosa has a bigger interest on increasing the size of the
Transmilenio infrastructure than building the first metro. While the
metro’s bidding will begin next year, the city will work on more than 70
Transmilenio stations. Let’s make something clear: Transmilenio is not a
system that is easily scalable. As the population of the capital of
Colombia grows, the need for an efficient and scalable transportation
system is more urgent. And it may seem like a trite discussion, but the
Mayor’s Office needs to understand this."

Regards,

Zvi

On 7 December 2017 at 05:07, Laura <laura.lauramachado at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dears
>
> I'd like express my opinion too.
> Athough diverse modals transport is one solution for mobility, I think an
> elevated Metro isn't good for cities, they will cause much negative impacts
> on the city landscape. Sounds like the old high rails, nowadays transformed
> in parks like in New York city.
> Look the picture!
>
> [image: Imagem inline 1]
>
> Regards,
> Laura
>
> Arq. Laura Machado
> Doutoranda em Planejamento Urbano e Regional - PROPUR-UFRGS
> Grupo de pesquisa laboratório de estudos urbanos - LeUrb-Cnpq
> Laboratório Nacional de Engenharia Civil - LNEC - Lisboa
> http://sustentabilidadeurbana.blogspot.com/
>
>
> 2017-12-07 9:16 GMT+00:00 Eric Bruun <eric.bruun at gmx.com>:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I also want to add to what Alok said.
> >
> > 1) TransMilennio may have been cheap to build and is still cheap to
> > operate, but it offers a low quality of service with crowding almost all
> > day long.
> >
> > 2) If I understand correctly, the Metro is not to replace the existing
> > TransMilennio, but to create a new corridor at 90 degrees to it. There is
> > no wide boulevard available in this corridor, so BRT land acquisition
> cost
> > would be astronomical and no doubt meet intense opposition from the
> > communities. Rail based Metro requires less much land, so this
> compensates
> > a lot for the higher construction cost.
> >
> > Best,
> > Eric
> > *Sent:* Thursday, December 07, 2017 at 7:42 AM
> > *From:* "Priyanka Alok Jain" <alok.priyanka at gmail.com>
> > *To:* "Debi Goenka" <debigoenka at gmail.com>
> > *Cc:* "Global 'South' Sustainable Transport" <
> > sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org>
> > *Subject:* [sustran] Re: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Metro Rail
> in
> > Bogota !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > I have a slight different take on this. There is a difference between
> > activism and pragmatism. While activism is important to control the
> > political or economic opportunism, it should not come in the way of
> > pragmatism.
> >
> > Both metros and BRT are part of urban mobility solutions and one should
> > only complement the other. I agree that many cities are stupidly planning
> > metros without thinking much about the need but for their monumental
> value
> > and that should be stopped but can you imagine Hong Kong or Singapore
> > without a well-functioning metro system? Bogota BRT system is bursting at
> > its seams and has almost reached its capacity in many corridors. It is
> wise
> > to plan a metro along those corridors while BRT can also expand in new
> > corridors. Being linear, dedicated right-of-way systems, metros obviously
> > move more people than BRT. Let’s not make Enrique Penalosa appear as a
> > sinner but an advocate for public transport. Last thing one would want to
> > see is more private cars on the road.
> >
> > “Pricing” is a completely different issue and I will not confuse the
> issue
> > by dwelling on it.
> >
> > Best Regards
> > Alok
> >
> > > On 6 Dec 2017, at 2:31 PM, Debi Goenka <debigoenka at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear all,
> > > I agree with Sujit. Metro Rail is perhaps the most expensive and most
> > > unaffordable form of public transport. It is also very disruptive. As
> we
> > > have seen in Mumbai, the Metro I project took more than 7 years to
> > > construct. The road under it is still in shambles. The private operator
> > > (Reliance) is at loggerheads with the Government partner (MMRDA), and
> > > the battle to raise fares has gone to the Supreme Court and back to the
> > > Bombay High Court. In fact, the Bombay High Court held on Monday that
> > > the fares could not be increased to Rs.110 for 10 km. I am sure
> Reliance
> > > will challenge this in the Supreme Court.
> > > If cheaper options are available, we should definitely go in for these,
> > > given the propensity of Governments and planning authorities to stop
> > > subsidizing public transport whilst going ahead with subsidies to
> fossil
> > > fuels and private transport.
> > > Debi
> > >
> > > On 06-12-2017 11:45, Sujit Patwardhan wrote:
> > >> Dear Friends,
> > >>
> > >> I'm surprised that the recent announcement from the Mayor of Bogota,
> Mr
> > >> Enrique Penalosa of the city going in for a Metro Rail has evoked no
> > >> response from members of this group.
> > >>
> > >> As a charismatic proponent of Bus Rapid Transit - the TransMilenio, Mr
> > >> Penalosa has been the most prominent brand leader for BRT. His
> > convincing
> > >> arguments for proposing BRT instead of the extremely costly Metro Rail
> > has
> > >> encouraged many cities in the South to introduce the BRT and begin to
> > >> tackle congestion and pollution in their cities. The example of Bogota
> > as a
> > >> city with unbelievably high 'people per hour per direction' (pphpd )
> of
> > >> 45,000 has a living example of how a bus based system can compete with
> > the
> > >> much more expensive Metro which particularly for the cities in
> > developing
> > >> countries was proving to be beyond their means. Despite its high cost,
> > >> Metro Rail has been a coveted item of infrastructure for many cities
> who
> > >> see it as an attractive toy that they must have at any cost.
> > >>
> > >> However now with Bogota going in for the Metro there will be an even
> > >> greater push for cities to get a Metro - usually at the cost of the
> city
> > >> bus service which is the only basic affordable public transport
> > available
> > >> to the city.
> > >>
> > >> I would welcome comments from members on this list who are aware of
> the
> > >> dire need of an Affordable Public Transport system to counter the
> > outdated
> > >> and failed "car oriented' model.
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Sujit
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --------------------------------------------------------
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> > >>
> > >> ================================================================
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> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > >
> > > Debi Goenka
> > > Mobile +91 98200 86404 <+91%2098200%2086404>
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
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> > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> > (the 'Global South').
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> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South').
>