Re: [sustran] Skyway proposal ‘mind-boggling,’ says rival firm

[Cornie Huizenga]

Hi Bert,

Good to hear that civil society is concerned about this. A few thoughts
from my side on dialogs etc:

   - I think that it would be best for private sector to remain above the
   parties for the time being - getting involved in discussions with private
   sector developers brings the risk that you start discussing on their terms
   and the danger is that you just make a bad thing a little bit less worse;
   - Create support from high level public figures;
   - List, and remind government of, all public statements in favor of
   public transport e.g. National EST strategy, agreeing to Bangkok 2020
   Declaration. The fact that 70% of trips are by public transport is very
   significant - a large part of this tricycle, jeepney etc will never be
   allowed on an elevated highway;
   - Invite ADB and WB to consultation events and the make use of the
   quotes they make there - I doubt that they would come out against the
   project if you ask them for a quote;
   - Right from the beginning challenge the economic underpinning and
   time-line of the project and refer to earlier projects which were not
   delivered on time and certainly not at cost;
   - Make certain that you have a comprehensive alternative

best regards,

Cornie

On Sun, Mar 4, 2012 at 1:18 PM, Bert Fabian <bert.fabian at cai-asia.org>wrote:

> Dear Roselle,
>
> I can imagine your frustration reading about these competing
> private-sector led proposals on road expansion aimed to alleviate traffic
> congestion like this Skyway proposals. There is another one - the Skybridge
> proposal by the MMDA over the Metro Manila esteros - and this promises to
> take 40% of vehicle traffic (private) from EDSA. Though, there are efforts
> to improve public transport - buses, jeepneys, tricycles and rail plus
> improving NMT access, it is clear that current efforts are not enough to
> really address the needs of commuters and pedestrians. Especially
> considering that about 70% of our passenger trips in Metro Manila are borne
> by public transport.
>
> Dear Cornie, Carlos, and Lloyd,
>
> Yes Cornie is right, civil society here can be quite strong if they want
> to be, and especially if there is some kind of consensus on what needs to
> be  done. Unfortunately, many civil society groups are mainly composed of
> the car-owning middle class who seems to be supporting these type of
> projects because it promises to make their trips much better. There are
> really not that many sustainable transport (PT + NMT) advocate groups
> (though growing steadily)..
>
> It is a bit disappointing that years of lobbying for sustainable transport
> is being overrun because of successive changes of leadership in the
> Department of Transport, and now with this current PPP initiative of
> government to spur transport infrastructure investments and economic
> growth. As usual, proposals are more on the building/ expansion of roads.
>
> Of course, we're not taking this sitting down.. we and a few others are
> directly lobbying/ discussing with senior officials and starting to discuss
> directly with the private sector proponents (there is an ongoing New
> Mobility Project supported by the Rockefeller Foundation and I think this
> falls under their objectives as well). But I agree we need to have a more
> comprehensive public campaign/ dialogue and get our advocacy more in the
> media.. It would also extremely help if we can get statements (e.g. for
> news articles) from organizations like the ADB, WB and others, that these
> kind of solutions will not work and only aggravate the situation.
>
>
> Best regards,
> Bert
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 8:10 PM, Cornie Huizenga <
> cornie.huizenga at slocatpartnership.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi Carlos,
>>
>> good questions - key is obviously that there is a genuine public dialog
>> and
>> not a white-wash one.  How strong is the civil society in Manila, I would
>> say quite strong if they want to be.  I leave it to the Manila based
>> members of sustran to decide how strong they want to be on this one.  But
>> personally I would say that this is something worth fighting for.  If a
>> project of this magnitude would be implemented it will put its stamp on
>> urban transport in Manila for years to come, and not in a good way.
>>
>> Cornie
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 8:00 PM, Pardo <carlosfpardo at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > I think both solutions are from the "normal world" and will not
>> > necessarily apply. What may happen with the public dialogue is that it
>> is
>> > prepared, developed and then results are hidden very carefully. Then
>> > project proponents will say "we had a public dialogue and the project
>> will
>> > move forward, now with civil society on board" - and it will be the same
>> > project as before.
>> >
>> > That said, it may be that the dialogue is properly developed and
>> external
>> > support is sought to achieve grater neutrality in the process. If the
>> media
>> > cares at all, they could work as the ones reporting about what truly is
>> > said during dialogues and real and public agreements can be reached.
>> Does
>> > Manila habe strong civil society - or at least one strong leader- that
>> can
>> > promote such dialogue? Will the media interest in supporting people
>> instead
>> > of infrastructure? Will any of the international institutions provide
>> > support in accompannying the process?
>> >
>> > For those of you who can read Spanish, see eltiempo.com or
>> > elespectador.com for the "user strikes" in transmilenio. They are
>> > definitely interesting in the context of this discussion, especially
>> due to
>> > the role expected and played by civil society - and its legitimacy.
>> >
>> > Pardo
>> >
>> > Written from the unexpected outcome of Abulafia. Please excuse typos.
>> >
>> > On 1/03/2012, at 21:01, Cornie Huizenga <
>> > cornie.huizenga at slocatpartnership.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Dear Lloyd and others,
>> > >
>> > > In a normal world I think that Lloyd's approach could work.  I am not
>> > > certain though whether Manila is a "normal"world. The danger that I
>> would
>> > > foresee is that private sector claims that they can do this without
>> > > government support but that relatively soon there will be some
>> set-backs
>> > > which will make it necessary that the government bails out the
>> project.
>> > >
>> > > I would call for a public dialog in which you explain that what Manila
>> > > needs most is a mobility solution which works for all people and not
>> just
>> > > those who have cars. Why should Manila go for a solution which has
>> proven
>> > > in other places not to work.  Having a smoother flowing EDSA will not
>> > > resolve congestion in other parts of Metro Manila. I would suggest
>> that
>> > > NGOs start an aggressive campaign to explain to the different
>> > stakeholders
>> > > (business, NGOs, local government) how the $ 600 million can be used
>> in
>> > an
>> > > alternative manner to create a much more livable city.
>> > >
>> > > Cornie
>> > >
>> > > On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 8:05 AM, Lloyd Wright <lwright at vivacities.org>
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> Yes, the proposal to build another road layer over EDSA Avenue in
>> Manila
>> > >> is indeed mind-boggling, especially when you consider there are
>> > currently
>> > >> segments already with three layers.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> >
>> http://business.inquirer.net/46659/skyway-proposal-%E2%80%98mind-boggling%E2%80%99-says-rival-firm
>> > >>
>> > >> However, I actually think there is an opportunity here for a
>> sustainable
>> > >> transport solution, that simultaneously allows for the civil works
>> > >> companies to build their dreams.
>> > >>
>> > >> Let them build the Skyway on the condition that it is entirely a
>> private
>> > >> endeavor with zero contribution from public funds.  The toll amount
>> and
>> > >> concession length could be adjusted to whatever lets them profit.
>> > >>
>> > >> The other caveat is that the surface layer belongs to sustainable
>> > >> transport with wide footpaths, cycle lanes, and dedicated bus lanes.
>> >  Only
>> > >> allow one lane for mixed traffic at the surface level, a lane that
>> will
>> > be
>> > >> throttled by calming measures that give priority to the NMT and
>> public
>> > >> transport lanes.
>> > >>
>> > >> The most undesirable outcome would be building the Skyway with public
>> > >> funds and simultaneously leaving the surface in the hands of cars, a
>> > real
>> > >> lose-lose with no equity or environmental benefits.
>> > >>
>> > >> Best regards,
>> > >>
>> > >> Lloyd
>> > >>
>> > >> -----Original Message-----
>> > >> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+lwright=
>> vivacities.org at list.jca.apc.org
>> > [mailto:
>> > >> sustran-discuss-bounces+lwright=vivacities.org at list.jca.apc.org] On
>> > >> Behalf Of Roselle Leah K. Rivera
>> > >> Sent: 02 March 2012 05:27
>> > >> To: sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org
>> > >> Subject: [sustran] Skyway proposal ‘mind-boggling,’ says rival firm
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Here we go... 24 billion pesos versus 21 billion pesos equals ?
>> > >> In the silence that follows, is it true? that "the road to hell is
>> paved
>> > >> with good intentions?"
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Skyway proposal ‘mind-boggling,’ says rival firm
>> > >> Source: business.inquirer.net
>> > >>
>> > >> “Ambitious,” “incredible” and “mind-boggling.” This was how the
>> group of
>> > >> Manuel V. Pangilinan described claims by San Miguel Corp.
>> (SMC)-backed
>> > >> Citra Metro Manila Tollways Corp. (CMMTC) that it could build a
>> highway
>> > >> over busy Metro Manila streets at a lower cost.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>  -----------------------------------------------------
>> > >>     "well-behaved women seldom make history."
>> > >>                             -laurel thatcher ulrich Roselle Leah K.
>> > >> Rivera Chairperson Department of Women and Development Studies
>> College
>> > of
>> > >> Social Work and Community Development University of the Philippines
>> > Diliman
>> > >> Quezon City mobile  +639178011494
>> > >>
>> > >> Partner Producer/Host, Sikhay Kilos Radio Program Sa DZUP 1602,
>> Kasali
>> > Ka!
>> > >> Matinong usapan para sa maunlad na bayan.
>> > >> You can listen to us live streaming www.dzup.org or 1602 on your AM
>> > radio
>> > >> --------------------------------------------------------
>> > >> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
>> > >> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>> > >>
>> > >> ================================================================
>> > >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
>> > >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing
>> countries
>> > >> (the 'Global South').
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> --------------------------------------------------------
>> > >> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
>> > >> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>> > >>
>> > >> ================================================================
>> > >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
>> > >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing
>> countries
>> > >> (the 'Global South').
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Cornie Huizenga
>> > > Joint Convener
>> > > Partnership on Sustainable, Low Carbon Transport
>> > > Mobile: +86 13901949332
>> > > cornie.huizenga at slocatpartnership.org
>> > > www.slocat.net
>> > > --------------------------------------------------------
>> > > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
>> > > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>> > >
>> > > ================================================================
>> > > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
>> > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
>> > (the 'Global South').
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cornie Huizenga
>> Joint Convener
>> Partnership on Sustainable, Low Carbon Transport
>> Mobile: +86 13901949332
>> cornie.huizenga at slocatpartnership.org
>> www.slocat.net
>> --------------------------------------------------------
>> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>>
>> ================================================================
>> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
>> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
>> (the 'Global South').
>>
>
>


-- 
Cornie Huizenga
Joint Convener
Partnership on Sustainable, Low Carbon Transport
Mobile: +86 13901949332
cornie.huizenga at slocatpartnership.org
www.slocat.net