[sustran] Re: PRT proposal for Delhi convinces Chief Minister

Pardo carlosfpardo at gmail.com
Sun May 1 04:10:54 JST 2011


Sorry for the ignorance, but I can't remember if 1 lakh is 10,000 Rs ... is it? And since we're at it, how much is 1 crore? It would be great if we could always give the small explanation for those who aren't familiar. This conversation is very useful for people outside India!

Pardo

Sent from Liliput-sized keyboard. Please excuse typos.

On 30/04/2011, at 10:40, Lee Schipper <schipper at berkeley.edu> wrote:

> Woah.  A bus seat is occupied by many more people per day and provides far more passenger-km than a car seat. And buses do provide standing room and take up less road space per passenger.  
> The Indian bus manufacturers figured out that a woman with two children and packages might have a hard time climbing up 1 metre on to a lorry-bed with seats, as buses were until less than a decade ago.  I credit the Swedish government's proposal to GIVE B'lore some Volvo lo floor buses a little more than ten years ago as providing the spark for the Indian version.  Oh yes National government insisted there be hefty tax on the Swedish buses and suddenly this "gift" was unaffordable. Some of this is recounted in my IEA book "Bus Systems for the future" still free at 
> Www.IEA.org
> 
> 
> I photographed a TAta or Leyland lo-floor bus in Delhi in 2006, so surely one does not need to turn to Volvo. But let's not make a comparison just on cost per seat....
> 
> And let's hope the bus lanes are car and two-wheeler free!
> 
> Lee Schipper
> Global Met Studies  UC Berkeley
> Precourt En Eff Center Stanford
> 
> 
> 
> On Apr 30, 2011, at 8:16, Dunu Roy <qadeeroy at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> You are right. The cost of the Volvo low-floor buses is exorbitant and bears no relation to production costs. The Tata/Leyland buses in Delhi are for 49 lakhs (non-AC) and 59 lakhs (AC). Even here, the CAG slammed the Corporation for buying buses at above the rates of Rs 43 lakhs and 51 lakhs respectively set by the Technical Committee. The chassis, it seems, costs only 15 lakhs, so if the body is built locally the expenses can be brought down significantly.
>> 
>> On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 11:22 AM, ashok datar <datar.ashok at gmail.com> wrote:
>> cost of bus and car per person 
>> 
>> Dear All,
>> if we calculate the investment cost per seat in a car vs the same in a bus we get a disturbing picture 
>> If a Volvo bus costs a min of Rs. 70 lakhs for 40 seats 
>> it means the investment per seat is Rs. 1.75 lakhs
>> on the other hand , popular cars such as Santro, Indica, Alto etc all cost   around Rs 3 to Rs. 4 lak rupees . 
>> that means the investment per seat would be Rs one lakh per seat 
>> why does it have to be so ?
>> Earlier , the ordinary BEST used to cost only Rs. 11 lakhs to Rs. 18 lakhs- obviously they  were very basic and the costs are up but in those days investment cost per seat in a bus was only Rs. 30 to 40000 
>> I think there is something radically wrong that the cost of a bus needs to be so high in India 
>> can we not provide good quality 40 seater buses under Rs. 40 lakhs 
>> and if a car air conditioning costs Rs. 25000, how much extra it should cost for a bus ?
>> Ultimately in India , investment cost is more important than even the fuel cost 
>> let us think about this issue which can make a radical difference to the approach of people to buses and cars 
>> that is where no public transport can compete with two wheelers 
>> ashok datar
>> 
>> On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 10:11 PM, Sarath Guttikunda <sguttikunda at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dear Lee and Co.,
>> 
>> attached is a summary of the results published by Ministry of Urban Development in 2008-09 on the passenger travel trends and they tell a good story of where the cities are headed.
>> 
>> Important messages on this page:
>> As the cities grew (in size of population, which is proxy to the geographical size), access to the work places in less than 15 mins travel time decreases
>> As the cities grew, the share of public transport in the form of bus transport (percent of passenger trips) increases - which is a good sign, meaning the cities are realizing the importance of promoting public transport and more efforts are headed that way as the cities expand
>> As the cities grew, the share of non-motorized transport in the form of walking and biking (percent of passenger trips) decreases - which is the sad part of the equation, meaning the role of cars and SUVs is overtaking the need to promote NMT
>> Lower the share of non-motorized transport in the city, lower the service index (% trips accessible in less than 15 mins travel time) and higher the congestion index, primarily due increase in the personal transport
>> The access to public transport is growing, but not enough to support the travel demand growth in the big cities. Figure 3, top right panel, presents the share of passenger trips covered by the public transport against the population in the cities. The access to the public transport is high in the megacities, and expected to grow under the JNNURM funds. However, the lack of infrastructure in the bus manufacturing sector to supply the necessary
>> 
>> With regards,
>> Sarath
>> 
>> --
>> Dr. Sarath Guttikunda, New Delhi, India
>> UrbanEmissions.Info | TED Fellow | +1(202)683-0937 (till June)
>> http://www.dri.edu/sarath-guttikunda
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 11:22 PM, Lee Schipper <schipper at berkeley.edu> wrote:
>> I will copy this to Sarath Guttikunda
>> begin_of_the_skype_highlighting     end_of_the_skype_highlighting of
>> Delhi. Can the Moderator admit him?
>> he has some amazing MoUD data on accessibility and mobility (number of
>> people traveling less than 15 minutes to work) for dozens of Indian
>> cities, and the number taking mass transit. The largest cities in India
>> fail..its a mess..the medium sized cities (like Pune) are doing a bit
>> better, but the "small" cities (ahem, small compared to Delhi or Mumbai)
>> offer more near=by access, consistent with what Ashok Dator said.
>> --
>> Lee Schipper, Ph.D
>> Project Scientist
>> Global Metropolitan Studies
>> http://metrostudies.berkeley.edu/
>> 
>> Street/Mail Address:
>> UC Berkeley Global Metropolitan Studies
>> 1950 Addison 2nd floor, Berkeley.
>> Berkeley CA 94704-2647
>> 
>> 
>> +1 510 642 6889,
>> FAX +1 510 642 6061
>> Cell +1 202 262 7476
>> 
>> skype: mrmeter
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> it is a very lively and serious debate on this new "toy" , may be good for
>>> very select uses at airports etc but cant be a sensible option for other
>>> major areas in any large and complex city.
>>> in fact, we need to have overall restraint policy for the urbanization as
>>> such all over
>>> if we want to cope with congestion, pollution, energy and sustainabiliy
>>> I think the cities need to degrow beyond a certain level
>>> they must remain within ground level transportation - preferably bussing (
>>> i.e. when u cant walk or bike )
>>> hopefully for most worktrips and other regular trips for education as well
>>> -
>>> it should be walking or biking oriented and then the BRTS
>>> and only in rare cases, taxies and hired personal cars for occasional uses
>>> so that we go towards miniimizning private, individually owned cars and
>>> provide more dense but low carbon impact and sustaibly green habitat
>>> we cant have all comforts which are based on personal car and then try to
>>> reject it
>>> we need to work towards alternate design of living especially in
>>> sustainable
>>> manner as global availability of energy, food, water is going to be
>>> liimited
>>> and need to equitably available and transport is a crtical element in the
>>> way we live especially in large urban societies based on exploitation of
>>> rural pop which can also be more sustainabale and "urban" with new
>>> techonlogies
>>> can we think altogether differently - not too radically
>>> ashok datar
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 3:13 PM, eric britton
>>> <eric.britton at ecoplan.org>wrote:
>>> 
>>>> This is a nice lively discussion, and I thought it might add a bit of
>>>> value
>>>> if we posted it to World Streets (even if we are supposed to be closed
>>>> as we
>>>> seek financial support to keep going) and popped a poll in there for
>>>> your
>>>> voting pleasure. You will see the full story at
>>>> http://worldstreets.wordpress.com/2011/04/27/prt-proposal-for-delhi-convinces-chief-minister-but-does-it-convince-you-see-poll-results/
>>>> 
>>>> Let's see what kind of consensus, divergence, trends if any we get here.
>>>> 
>>>> What is more beautiful and encouraging than informed active citizens who
>>>> make their voices heard.
>>>> 
>>>> Vote!
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
>>>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>>>> 
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>>> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
>>>> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
>>>> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
>>>> 
>>>> ================================================================
>>>> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
>>>> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
>>>> (the 'Global South').
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Ashok R.Datar
>>> Mumbai Environmental Social Network
>>> 20 Madhavi, Makarand Society, S.V.S.Marg, Mahim-400 016
>>> 98676 65107/0222 444 9212 see our website : www.mesn.org
>>> 
>>> * I hear, then I forget.  I see, then I remember. I do, then I
>>> understand.*
>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
>>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>>> 
>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
>>> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
>>> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
>>> 
>>> ================================================================
>>> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
>>> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
>>> (the 'Global South').
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Ashok R.Datar
>> Mumbai Environmental Social Network
>> 20 Madhavi, Makarand Society, S.V.S.Marg, Mahim-400 016
>> 98676 65107/0222 444 9212 see our website : www.mesn.org
>> 
>> I hear, then I forget.  I see, then I remember. I do, then I understand.
>> 
>> 
> -------------------------------------------------------- 
> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------- 
> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
> 
> ================================================================
> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). 


More information about the Sustran-discuss mailing list