[sustran] Re: No money for good PT or walk/bike infastructure?: India 'world's biggest arms buyer'

[Carlosfelipe Pardo]

Nope. It's because you know when to promote metros and do so with technical
reasons. Compensation is when people just want the metro - period. No matter
what the needs of the city, they just want something big, shiny. You favor
them because you have analyzed a situation and have found that a metro is
the perfect solution.

Carlosfelipe Pardo.

On 15 March 2011 15:10, <bruun at seas.upenn.edu> wrote:

>
> Pardo
>
> So the reason I sometimes favor metros isn't because I think that they
> serve a useful purpose
> but because I have to compensate for my deficiencies?
>
> Eric Bruun
>
> Quoting Pardo <carlosfpardo at gmail.com>:
>
> > Adhiraj,
> >
> > You forgpt to note the importance of Freudian compensation as a
> > factor in buying big shiny "toys" like expensive metros, and
> > people's tendency to believe that they will solve everyone's
> > transport problems (even when they live 10 kms away from the planned
> > metro line. Of course, it's even worse when they think that a
> > flyover being built will also solve everything, and even worse an
> > elevated highway. But, incredibly, the need for compensation in some
> > citizens and policynakers is stronger than their frontal lobe. Thus,
> > I would also find a strong link between these ideas and the choices
> > of where to spend money.
> >
> > (and let's not get started about cars and psychoanalysis!)
> >
> > Pardo
> >
> > Written with my thumbs. Please excuse typos.
> >
> > On 15/03/2011, at 4:58, Dr Adhiraj Joglekar
> > <adhiraj.joglekar at googlemail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I do not think its off topic. I have always held a view that monies are
> >> finite and how its used has to be prioritised based on needs assessment
> >> across sectors. Should money be spent on a metro when basic healthcare
> is
> >> absent? My answer is NO.
> >>
> >> Is the semantics anti-India? Really depends on whether we remain married
> to
> >> history and paranoia thereof. More importantly which part of our
> faculties
> >> is at play? Emotive yet primitive survial of fittest brain or conscious
> >> frontal lobe?
> >>
> >> While I risk digressing, its primitive structures rules by prevailing
> >> emotive background that largely drives individuals and masses. This of
> >> course affects us as emotions relating probable war run high and we
> respond
> >> to fear and anger. But the same structures are taken by hedonistic
> >> tendencies where posh & big seems better. No wonder how easy it is to
> get
> >> masses to align with glamorous metro than a basic bus based transport
> >> system.
> >>
> >> Of course there is always the slim chance that conscious but corrupt
> ideas
> >> are in play in the most singular, clinical and calculated manner.
> Businesses
> >> have to thrive and forces are at play to ensure big spends - metro is an
> >> example just as the industry that depends on actual or feared wars. Why
> >> would then any one care if there were footpaths? In fact the lack of
> such
> >> basics points to the dance of the psychological dynamic I attempt to
> >> describe above.
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >>
> >> Adhiraj
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 15 March 2011 08:11, Sujit Patwardhan <patwardhan.sujit at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Thank you Rutul for your timely intervention on this.
> >>>
> >>> My problem with Tom's email is not so much its content but the tone
> which
> >>> can be interpreted (I'm sure unjustly) as anti-India. If one starts
> talking
> >>> about expenditure on arms I can write volumes on the US and USSR and UK
> and
> >>> France and many other countries that could use the money on health,
> >>> education, the environment and so on... and now China and India are
> also
> >>> joining their ranks, but I sincerely believe that bulk of the criticism
> >>> against Government's spending on the armaments industry should come
> from
> >>> the
> >>> citizens themselves (where citizens have the democratic space to do
> so). I
> >>> also admit that as citizens we (all of us, the communists included) are
> not
> >>> doing enough in this area.
> >>>
> >>> Having said that-- in context of Public Transport and NMT facilities I
> >>> think
> >>> all (our) cities have enough money which is presently being spent on
> the
> >>> wrong projects ones that will basically facilitate (even fuel) greater
> use
> >>> of personal auto vehicles. As Rutul has points out, even with
> substantial
> >>> amounts made available under the various urban renewal schemes, a
> >>> favourable
> >>> National Urban Transport Policy, insistence on preparation of City
> Mobility
> >>> Plans before release of funds from the central Govt to the states and
> >>> cities
> >>> etc etc, we see PT and NMT schemes conspicuous by their absence. This
> is
> >>> also being pointed out by many NGOs and independent experts.
> >>>
> >>> I feel the reason for this is the absence of proper monitoring and
> >>> regulatory systems that need to be in place. There is evidence that
> >>> presently this is being formulated by the central government and it may
> >>> start functioning soon. However this should have been done at least 5
> years
> >>> back.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Sujit
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 11:19 AM, Rutul Joshi <joshirutul at yahoo.co.in
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Why Off-topic? Would anyone care to explain?  (Before anyone label me,
> I
> >>>> must add that I am an Indian but not a communist)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> However, this view - money for weapons but not for sustainable
> transport
> >>> -
> >>>> might be a bit naive.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> There is a lot of money with cities, states etc (400 million $ annual
> >>>> budget of a 5 million plus city). There is a policy in place (National
> >>> Urban
> >>>> Transport Policy)... there is a program to implement this policy
> (JNNURM
> >>> now
> >>>> 'new' 'improved' JnNRUM)...there are plans (comprehensive mobility
> plans
> >>> -
> >>>> CMPs) then why is it so that even straight-forward projects like
> building
> >>>> footpaths everywhere do not take off? Would anyone care to explain?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Rutul
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ________________________________
> >>>> From: Cornie Huizenga <cornie.huizenga at slocatpartnership.org>
> >>>> To: eric britton <eric.britton at ecoplan.org>
> >>>> Cc: Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport <
> >>>> sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org>
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, 15 March 2011 6:40 AM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [sustran] Re: No money for good PT or walk/bike
> >>>> infastructure?: India 'world's biggest arms buyer'
> >>>>
> >>>> Eric,
> >>>>
> >>>> I fully agree!
> >>>>
> >>>> Cornie
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 4:11 AM, eric britton <
> eric.britton at ecoplan.org
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> You are off topic Todd. Please.  Eric Britton
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> >>>>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------
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> >>>>> ================================================================
> >>>>> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> >>>>> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing
> >>> countries
> >>>>> (the 'Global South').
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Cornie Huizenga
> >>>> Joint Convener
> >>>> Partnership on Sustainable, Low Carbon Transport
> >>>> Mobile: +86 13901949332
> >>>> cornie.huizenga at slocatpartnership.org
> >>>> www.slocat.net
> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------
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> >>>>
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> >>>> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing
> countries
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> >>>>
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> >>>> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing
> countries
> >>>> (the 'Global South').
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> *?..each million we invest into urban motorways is an investment
> >>> to destroy the city?*
> >>>
> >>> Mayor Hans Joachim Vogel
> >>> Munich 1970
> >>>
> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> Sujit Patwardhan
> >>> patwardhan.sujit at gmail.com
> >>> sujit at parisar.org <sujitjp at gmail.com>
> >>>
> >>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> Yamuna, ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007, India
> >>> Tel: +91 20 25537955
> >>> Cell: +91 98220 26627
> >>>
> >>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> Parisar: www.parisar.org
> >>>
> >>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> --------------------------------------------------------
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> >>>
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> >>> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing
> countries
> >>> (the 'Global South').
> >>>
> >> --------------------------------------------------------
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> >>
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> >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing
> >> countries (the 'Global South').
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> > countries (the 'Global South').
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