[sustran] Yet more about: Delhi Metro - A Transport Planner's Perspective

[bruun at seas.upenn.edu]

Hi everyone:

I think this article is an example of the phenomenon I mentioned,  
specifically, that money won't go to services for the poor. I really  
don't know the details of this project. But if the line had potential to
allow the creation of a trunk feeder system that would allow more  
frequent bus services through
truncation of bus routes, I might support it. If it were just in  
isolation and only met the needs
of affluent people living in the center or town, I would oppose it.

Eric Bruun

Oklahoma City Leaders Considering Alternatives to Downtown Streetcar
Posted: January 12th, 2011 10:25 AM CDT

Bryan Dean
The Oklahoman, Oklahoma City

OKLAHOMA - More than a year after voters approved MAPS 3, city leaders  
are split on what to do with one of the biggest pieces of the proposal  
-- $130 million for a downtown streetcar and transit hub.
In recent weeks, Ward 4 Councilman Pete White has come out against the  
plan for a 5- or 6-mile streetcar system that was pitched to voters  
during the MAPS 3 campaign.
Such a streetcar would run on rails and would cost at least $20  
million a mile to build. White said he wants to keep the promise to  
voters of building a downtown circulator, but he would like the city  
to look at cheaper options such as an enhanced version of the downtown  
trolley system already in place, which uses modified city buses.
The bulk of the money for transit included in MAPS 3 then could be  
used to improve city bus service or build a light rail line that would  
serve many more people, White said.
"I drive by a bus stop every day that is not sheltered, and there are  
eight people standing there almost every day," White said. "We don't  
have a conscience about that."
Supporters see the streetcar as a potential economic development tool.  
They say a bus line can be changed. But a streetcar on rails is  
permanent and sends a sign to potential business owners that they can  
bank on the traffic that comes with it.
Serving downtown
The streetcar mostly would serve those who live and work downtown. It  
could also convince more downtown workers to move into expanding  
residential developments, supporters say.
Jeff Bezdek, a downtown resident who has fought for a streetcar system  
since before MAPS 3 was proposed, said people were promised more than  
a rubber-tire trolley system like the one already in place downtown.  
He also said MAPS isn't the way to pay for buses, which have a low  
capital cost but high maintenance and operating costs.
"MAPS is not designed to handle ongoing operational costs," Bezdek  
said. "We build things that are permanent, that are meaningful."
Bezdek said a modern streetcar running on rails would be the kind of  
top-of-the-line project that people have come to expect from MAPS.
Mayor Mick Cornett said there is no short-term solution to the  
problems with the city's bus system. Most people who ride a bus have  
to connect through downtown, and buses don't run frequently enough to  
make them practical.
Rider's complaints
Tramale Jones, of Oklahoma City, rides the bus every day. He said the  
city needs to run buses 24 hours a day like most major cities and  
should run routes frequently enough that people would see them as an  
alternative to driving themselves.
"On the weekend they run most routes every hour," Jones said. "It  
takes you three hours to get there and back."
Keyawanna Hawkins rides the bus every other day. She said the long  
wait is her biggest complaint.
"It would be 10 times faster if I had a car," Jones said.
Cornett said those complaints are valid, but there is no easy way to  
address them.
"I looked very long and hard at finding a way to enhance our bus  
system in MAPS 3," Cornett said. "But without a permanent funding  
source, we just couldn't make the funding work. I would love to find a  
way to solve the issue. I just don't think we are close to that day"
Many believe the streetcar would serve mostly young professionals  
capable of walking around downtown.
Recalling a recent budget fight to preserve two enhanced bus routes  
that were on the chopping block last summer, White said he'd like to  
see those who rely most on public transit -- the poor, handicapped and  
elderly -- get at least a piece of the MAPS pie.
"We had to fight for $40,000 to get enough money for buses for people  
who need those buses to get back and forth to work, and it was like  
pulling teeth to get it done," White said. "Nobody speaks for those  
people. And yet we are willing to drop $120 million on a system that  
will make it easy for people to get from point A to point B a block  
away."


Quoting bruun at seas.upenn.edu:

>
> Hello everyone:
>
> I just want to state my assumptions. I take as a given that the
> political elites in India are also in the minority that drive cars and
> have a conflict of interest. I reason that they might consider using a
> metro and maybe even a BRT if it is upscale enough, but not an
> expanded and improved bus system where one still gets stuck in traffic
> and has to travel with the riff-raff. Most them probably don't want to
> spend money on fixing bus services for the masses any more than they
> want to do anything else for the masses. So I didn't believe fixing
> bus systems was any
> more realistic than improving schools, healtcare, nutrition, rural
> farms. However, they might well be in favor of motorways since it
> benefits them personally.
>
> Am I too cynical? I don't admit to being an expert on Indian politics.
> I base my cynicism on seeing callous disregard for the people at the
> bottom in the US. Services for the poor are always underfunded and the
> first thing to be cut in a recession, as we are seeing right now.
>
> Eric Bruun
>
>
>
>
> Quoting Dr Adhiraj Joglekar <adhiraj.joglekar at googlemail.com>:
>
>> I have erad this thread with some interest. Couple of comments. As a medic
>> perhaps to me it is very obvious and hence find the need for evidence to
>> make a case where the REAL choice is between better healthcare, food, or
>> education instead of better transport strange.
>>
>> Having thought about it though, anyone who Google's (or is willing to) and
>> indeed any one who understands ground realities of a country like India will
>> not need much of an evidence. Indian Public Health expenditure is 1-2% of
>> its GDP (7-8 % for most Western Nations). Oddly when we include ou-of-pocket
>> spend on health, India spends 6% of its GDP (less than 5% have medical
>> insurance) - telling figures for a country where 40% are under BPL!!
>>
>> Compare National Health / Education budgets with those touted for half dozen
>> metro systems, the difference is stark when one thinks the former is meant
>> to be for 1.2 Billion and latter for 10th of that number.
>>
>> Systematically spending over years has been localised to urban metor cities
>> - no wonder every villager runs to these cities in hope of a decent wager
>> (only to live in shanties though it does become possible to survive than
>> starve).
>>
>> I have to admit I was perturbed by what is a realistic statement / question
>> - could the money have been more wisely spent? probably.  was or is it
>> likely?  not very. The answer is probably highly likely. But does that make
>> it good enough to to not steer the ship differently or should it become an
>> excuse, rather convinient one to be used to build one industry at cost of
>> many others that are far more vital for masses (many times over than the
>> masses that will use the metro) of what is still a poor country (when
>> thinking per capita incomes).
>>
>> PT does not exist in a bubble, though much of debate seems to suggest this
>> to be the case.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Adhiraj
>>
>>> > agree that the PT should be postponed.
>>
>>
>> On 10 January 2011 11:12, eric britton <eric.britton at ecoplan.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I wonder about this Walter.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What if the idea of a Metro/BRT link is used as a tactic, fool's bait to
>>> get
>>> the metro built? Makes sense as a business strategy for the winners, since
>>> the money coming to the metro project will way outweigh the BRT share. So
>>> in
>>> such a case we would be getting ourselves used for a greater bad.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For now in most parts of the world, at least in places where there is
>>> hyper-limited  money around to fund mobility improvements, don't we have to
>>> wave the red flag for every metro project that raises its ugly head?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Or do I have this wrong?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Once again and as we have been reminded recently. Gandhi's: "Doing more,
>>> for
>>> less, for more." Is the only way to go.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Eric Britton
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> On Behalf Of Walter Hook
>>> Sent: Sunday, 09 January, 2011 17:27
>>> To: ashok datar
>>> Cc: NewMobilityCafe at yahoogroups.com; sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org
>>> Subject: [sustran] Re: Delhi Metro - A Transport Planner's Perspective
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> interesting discussion.  could the money have been more wisely spent?
>>>
>>> probably.  was or is it likely?  not very.  we've had recent good
>>>
>>> experiences w/ some of the metro corps around India being quite open to
>>>
>>> developing integrated metro/BRT systems and I think this approach is
>>> showing
>>>
>>> some promise.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 12:46 AM, ashok datar <datar.ashok at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > Yes, Delhi is best compared with Beijing. Besides, in Indian context, it
>>> is
>>>
>>> > important that we must identify cost /benefit in a more comprehensive
>>>
>>> > manner
>>>
>>> > for alternative mass transportation projects and such an analysis should
>>>
>>> > consider the external economies such as effects on environment, low
>>> carbon
>>>
>>> > life style, affordability to a majority of population and whether it
>>> leads
>>>
>>> > to a switch from cars to public transportation.
>>>
>>> > from these angles, BRTS will come far superior than metro in  most cases
>>>
>>> > ashok datar
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> > On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 4:39 AM, V. Setty Pendakur <
>>>
>>> > pendakur at interchange.ubc.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> > > A realistic comparison would be Shanghai and Beijing.  Washington, DC
>>>
>>> > does
>>>
>>> > > not have the same catchment area population and neither are car
>>> ownership
>>>
>>> > > rates comparable.
>>>
>>> > >
>>>
>>> > > Delhi Metro, like several other places, is an empire unto itself and
>>> they
>>>
>>> > > can afford to get concerned about major issues such as land use or
>>>
>>> > > solvency.
>>>
>>> > > --
>>>
>>> > >
>>>
>>> > > Best wishes; Setty
>>>
>>> > >
>>>
>>> > > Dr. V. Setty Pendakur
>>>
>>> > > Professor Emeritus, University of British Columbia
>>>
>>> > > Honorary Professor, China National Academy of Sciences
>>>
>>> > > Senior Counselor, The State Council of the PRC
>>>
>>> > > President, Pacific Policy & Planning Associates
>>>
>>> > > 1099 Marinaside Crescent, Vancouver, BC
>>>
>>> > > Canada V6Z 2Z3
>>>
>>> > > T: 1-604-263-3576; M:1-604-374-3575
>>>
>>> > > Fax: 1-604-263-6493
>>>
>>> > >
>>>
>>> > >
>>>
>>> > >
>>>
>>> > > From: <bruun at seas.upenn.edu>
>>>
>>> > > Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2011 17:48:20 -0500
>>>
>>> > > To: <sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org>, <
>>> NewMobilityCafe at yahoogroups.com
>>>
>>> > >
>>>
>>> > > Subject: [sustran] Re: Delhi Metro - A Transport Planner's Perspective
>>>
>>> > >
>>>
>>> > >
>>>
>>> > > If a 180 km long network is carrying 1.6 million per day, this can
>>>
>>> > > hardly be called a failure. This is over double what the Washington DC
>>>
>>> > > regional metro network of the same length carries, and it is crush
>>>
>>> > > loaded in parts of the network at rush hours.
>>>
>>> > >
>>>
>>> > > I am not surprised that the DMRC doesn't cooperate with other
>>>
>>> > > organizations. This is always potentially a problem when one creates a
>>>
>>> > > new private corporation. But keep in mind that without creating a new
>>>
>>> > > corporation it would never have been built. The existing government
>>>
>>> > > bureaucracies were incapable of building anything in a timely fashion.
>>>
>>> > > So the solution is to restructure the organizational relationships and
>>>
>>> > > build different contractual and organizational structures, not throw
>>>
>>> > > out the concept of building high capacity systems.
>>>
>>> > >
>>>
>>> > > Yes, the overhead rights-of-way can be intrusive, but would it be
>>>
>>> > > better to build motorways in the sky instead? This is the real choice,
>>>
>>> > > not feeding starving Indians. If we were to wait in the US until all
>>>
>>> > > poverty was gone before we built decent PT, we would still be waiting.
>>>
>>> > > If you can show me a case where the REAL choice is between better
>>>
>>> > > healthcare, food, or education instead of better transport, I will
>>>
>>> > > agree that the PT should be postponed.
>>>
>>> > >
>>>
>>> > > Eric Bruun
>>>
>>> > >
>>>
>>> > >
>>>
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> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing  
> countries (the 'Global South').
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