[sustran] Re: PRT proposal for Delhi convinces Chief Minister

[Dr Adhiraj Joglekar]

And lets not forget the standees.
A

On 29 April 2011 07:12, Sujit Patwardhan <patwardhan.sujit at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Ashok,
> But surely "how many times in a day the bus seat is occupied" in other
> words
> counting total number of people carried in the bus as against in cars seems
> to be ignored in your calculations. Or am I missing something?
>
> --
> Sujit
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 11:22 AM, ashok datar <datar.ashok at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > *cost of bus and car per person *
> >
> > Dear All,
> > if we calculate the investment cost per seat in a car vs the same in a
> bus
> > we get a disturbing picture
> > If a Volvo bus costs a min of Rs. 70 lakhs for 40 seats
> > it means the investment per seat is Rs. 1.75 lakhs
> > on the other hand , popular cars such as Santro, Indica, Alto etc all
> cost
> >   around Rs 3 to Rs. 4 lak rupees .
> > that means the investment per seat would be Rs one lakh per seat
> > why does it have to be so ?
> > Earlier , the ordinary BEST used to cost only Rs. 11 lakhs to Rs. 18
> lakhs-
> > obviously they  were very basic and the costs are up but in those days
> > investment cost per seat in a bus was only Rs. 30 to 40000
> > I think there is something radically wrong that the cost of a bus needs
> to
> > be so high in India
> > can we not provide good quality 40 seater buses under Rs. 40 lakhs
> > and if a car air conditioning costs Rs. 25000, how much extra it should
> > cost for a bus ?
> > Ultimately in India , investment cost is more important than even the
> fuel
> > cost
> > let us think about this issue which can make a radical difference to the
> > approach of people to buses and cars
> > that is where no public transport can compete with two wheelers
> > ashok datar
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 10:11 PM, Sarath Guttikunda <
> sguttikunda at gmail.com
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> Dear Lee and Co.,
> >>
> >> attached is a summary of the results published by Ministry of Urban
> >> Development in 2008-09 on the passenger travel trends and they tell a
> good
> >> story of where the cities are headed.
> >>
> >> Important messages on this page:
> >>
> >>    - As the cities grew (in size of population, which is proxy to the
> >>    geographical size), access to the work places in less than 15 mins
> travel
> >>    time decreases
> >>    - As the cities grew, the share of public transport in the form of
> bus
> >>    transport (percent of passenger trips) increases - which is a good
> sign,
> >>    meaning the cities are realizing the importance of promoting public
> >>    transport and more efforts are headed that way as the cities expand
> >>    - As the cities grew, the share of non-motorized transport in the
> form
> >>    of walking and biking (percent of passenger trips) decreases - which
> is the
> >>    sad part of the equation, meaning the role of cars and SUVs is
> overtaking
> >>    the need to promote NMT
> >>    - Lower the share of non-motorized transport in the city, lower the
> >>    service index (% trips accessible in less than 15 mins travel time)
> and
> >>    higher the congestion index, primarily due increase in the personal
> >>    transport
> >>
> >> The access to public transport is growing, but not enough to support the
> >> travel demand growth in the big cities. Figure 3, top right panel,
> presents
> >> the share of passenger trips covered by the public transport against the
> >> population in the cities. The access to the public transport is high in
> the
> >> megacities, and expected to grow under the JNNURM funds. However, the
> lack
> >> of infrastructure in the bus manufacturing sector to supply the
> necessary
> >>
> >> With regards,
> >> Sarath
> >>
> >> --
> >> Dr. Sarath Guttikunda, New Delhi, India
> >> UrbanEmissions.Info <http://www.urbanemissions.info/> | TED Fellow |
> >> +1(202)683-0937 (till June)
> >> http://www.dri.edu/sarath-guttikunda
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 11:22 PM, Lee Schipper <schipper at berkeley.edu
> >wrote:
> >>
> >>> I will copy this to Sarath Guttikunda
> >>> begin_of_the_skype_highlighting     end_of_the_skype_highlighting of
> >>> Delhi. Can the Moderator admit him?
> >>> he has some amazing MoUD data on accessibility and mobility (number of
> >>> people traveling less than 15 minutes to work) for dozens of Indian
> >>> cities, and the number taking mass transit. The largest cities in India
> >>> fail..its a mess..the medium sized cities (like Pune) are doing a bit
> >>> better, but the "small" cities (ahem, small compared to Delhi or
> Mumbai)
> >>> offer more near=by access, consistent with what Ashok Dator said.
> >>> --
> >>> Lee Schipper, Ph.D
> >>> Project Scientist
> >>> Global Metropolitan Studies
> >>> http://metrostudies.berkeley.edu/
> >>>
> >>> Street/Mail Address:
> >>> UC Berkeley Global Metropolitan Studies
> >>> 1950 Addison 2nd floor, Berkeley.
> >>> Berkeley CA 94704-2647
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> +1 510 642 6889,
> >>> FAX +1 510 642 6061
> >>> Cell +1 202 262 7476
> >>>
> >>> skype: mrmeter
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > it is a very lively and serious debate on this new "toy" , may be
> good
> >>> for
> >>> > very select uses at airports etc but cant be a sensible option for
> >>> other
> >>> > major areas in any large and complex city.
> >>> > in fact, we need to have overall restraint policy for the
> urbanization
> >>> as
> >>> > such all over
> >>> > if we want to cope with congestion, pollution, energy and
> sustainabiliy
> >>> > I think the cities need to degrow beyond a certain level
> >>> > they must remain within ground level transportation - preferably
> >>> bussing (
> >>> > i.e. when u cant walk or bike )
> >>> > hopefully for most worktrips and other regular trips for education as
> >>> well
> >>> > -
> >>> > it should be walking or biking oriented and then the BRTS
> >>> > and only in rare cases, taxies and hired personal cars for occasional
> >>> uses
> >>> > so that we go towards miniimizning private, individually owned cars
> and
> >>> > provide more dense but low carbon impact and sustaibly green habitat
> >>> > we cant have all comforts which are based on personal car and then
> try
> >>> to
> >>> > reject it
> >>> > we need to work towards alternate design of living especially in
> >>> > sustainable
> >>> > manner as global availability of energy, food, water is going to be
> >>> > liimited
> >>> > and need to equitably available and transport is a crtical element in
> >>> the
> >>> > way we live especially in large urban societies based on exploitation
> >>> of
> >>> > rural pop which can also be more sustainabale and "urban" with new
> >>> > techonlogies
> >>> > can we think altogether differently - not too radically
> >>> > ashok datar
> >>> >
> >>> > On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 3:13 PM, eric britton
> >>> > <eric.britton at ecoplan.org>wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >> This is a nice lively discussion, and I thought it might add a bit
> of
> >>> >> value
> >>> >> if we posted it to World Streets (even if we are supposed to be
> closed
> >>> >> as we
> >>> >> seek financial support to keep going) and popped a poll in there for
> >>> >> your
> >>> >> voting pleasure. You will see the full story at
> >>> >>
> >>>
> http://worldstreets.wordpress.com/2011/04/27/prt-proposal-for-delhi-convinces-chief-minister-but-does-it-convince-you-see-poll-results/
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Let's see what kind of consensus, divergence, trends if any we get
> >>> here.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> What is more beautiful and encouraging than informed active citizens
> >>> who
> >>> >> make their voices heard.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Vote!
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >> --------------------------------------------------------
> >>> >> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> >>> >> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> >>> >>
> >>> >> --------------------------------------------------------
> >>> >> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> >>> >> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the
> >>> real
> >>> >> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> ================================================================
> >>> >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> >>> >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing
> >>> countries
> >>> >> (the 'Global South').
> >>> >>
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > --
> >>> > Ashok R.Datar
> >>> > Mumbai Environmental Social Network
> >>> > 20 Madhavi, Makarand Society, S.V.S.Marg, Mahim-400 016
> >>> > 98676 65107/0222 444 9212 see our website : www.mesn.org
> >>> >
> >>> > * I hear, then I forget.  I see, then I remember. I do, then I
> >>> > understand.*
> >>> > --------------------------------------------------------
> >>> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> >>> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> >>> >
> >>> > --------------------------------------------------------
> >>> > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> >>> > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the
> >>> real
> >>> > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
> >>> >
> >>> > ================================================================
> >>> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> >>> > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing
> >>> countries
> >>> > (the 'Global South').
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Ashok R.Datar
> > Mumbai Environmental Social Network
> > 20 Madhavi, Makarand Society, S.V.S.Marg, Mahim-400 016
> > 98676 65107/0222 444 9212 see our website : www.mesn.org
> >
> > * I hear, then I forget.  I see, then I remember. I do, then I
> understand.
> > *
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> *“..each million we invest into urban motorways is an investment
> to destroy the city“*
>
> Mayor Hans Joachim Vogel
> Munich 1970
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Sujit Patwardhan
> patwardhan.sujit at gmail.com
> sujit at parisar.org <sujitjp at gmail.com>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yamuna, ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007, India
> Tel: +91 20 25537955
> Cell: +91 98220 26627
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Parisar: www.parisar.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------------------------------------------------------
> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
>
> ================================================================
> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South').
>