[sustran] Re: PRT proposal for Delhi convinces Chief Minister

Karthik Rao-Cavale krc12353 at gmail.com
Fri Apr 29 08:22:34 JST 2011


I'm sorry - I misread the report I cited in my hurry to respond. The report
states that the "medium cost" estimate for one-way guideway is $20-35
million/mile ($50 million is the higher end estimate). The lower end of the
cost estimates might be comparable to Dr. Schipper's cost estimate for BRTs.

I also mis-read the capacity of the system - the VTC report states that the
maximum PRT capacity actually attainable is similar to the maximum capacity
for BRT/LRT, which is about 10000 persons per hour per direction. (p. 56)

I apologize once again - this is embarrassing.

karthik

On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 7:04 PM, Lee Schipper <schipper at berkeley.edu> wrote:

> Thanks, very interesting.
>
> BRT, at $5-20 million/mile and carrying 10 000 /hour max in peak direction
> (many systems exceed that) is far less expensive. Of course BRT works best
> on big and dense corridors.
>
> Metrobus' first line in Mexico city (19 km, 12 miles) ran to $100 million
> when we count the re-paving of the guideways and include the 100 or so
> buses. It carried about 300 000 people/day, or 8000/hour in each direction
> averaged (running close to 18 hours/day). It has totally revolutionized
> travel in Mexico City, and is now joined by its own extension as well as 2
> completely new lines.
>
> The Delhi metro is catching up, but BRT is taking its time there.  Seems
> to me as many of you have said that Delhi needs more high capacity lines,
> and needs to work growth in population, homes, businesses, stores along
> those lines.
>
> The question to all of you is who pays for a low capacity system, and,
> even more important, where is it built? Whose homes or business does it
> connect the the trunk routes (metro, BRT)? In a sprawling metro region
> like Delhi, it seems to me that a PRT system comes out as an expensive way
> to move a few people in a very large city.
> --
> Lee
>
>
>
> > Dear Dr. Schipper,
> >
> > The per mile costs, according to a report by VTC are $50 million for
> > one-way
> > guideway and $75 million for two-way guideway. The report can be found
> > here.
> > http://faculty.washington.edu/jbs/itrans/big/PRTfinalreport.pdf
> >
> > The report suggests that capacity can be as high as 3000 persons per hour
> > per direction, but 1000 is more realistic.
> >
> > karthik
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 9:11 AM, Lee Schipper <schipper at berkeley.edu>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Ravi, can you re-express the cost as numbers in
> >>
> >> $/person-hour of capacity?
> >>
> >> Could be very telling
> >> --
> >> Lee Schipper, Ph.D
> >> Project Scientist
> >> Global Metropolitan Studies
> >> http://metrostudies.berkeley.edu/
> >>
> >> Street/Mail Address:
> >> UC Berkeley Global Metropolitan Studies
> >> 1950 Addison 2nd floor, Berkeley.
> >> Berkeley CA 94704-2647
> >>
> >>
> >> +1 510 642 6889,
> >> FAX +1 510 642 6061
> >> Cell +1 202 262 7476
> >>
> >> skype: mrmeter
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > Dear Sonal,
> >> >
> >> > I work with an Urban Transport consultancy in Delhi and also worked on
> >> a
> >> > demand estimation project for PRT in GIFT city, Gujarat, India.  I
> >> hope
> >> > that makes me reasonably qualified to  put forward my understanding of
> >> the
> >> > PRT.
> >> >
> >> > The peak speed of the POD is about 40 kmph. But when you take the
> >> access,
> >> > egress, waiting  and transfer times, we observed in our study for GIFT
> >> > city that people have
> >> > lesser travel time cycling or in many cases even walking. This without
> >> > even considering the travel cost.
> >> >
> >> > Cost of construction of PRT is around Rs 40 crore/km (about USD 8
> >> million
> >> > per km) and its function is to serve as a feeder mode to Metro/BRT..
> >> The
> >> > cost of BRT will be Rs 10 crore/km (about USD 8 million per km). Even
> >> > though the cost for the passenger is fixed at Rs 6/km, the social cost
> >> > will be higher. So, the feeder mode is going to cost more than the
> >> main
> >> > line.
> >> >
> >> > The other point put in favour of the PRT is that it can work in narrow
> >> > lanes, like the one's being designed for Lucknow. We have narrow lanes
> >> > in the Old city areas of most of our cities, which were primarily
> >> > designed for walking. Why would we need to tamper with that for PRT,
> >> > which is intended for the same purpose i.e. accessing the main PT
> >> lines
> >> > on the arterials.
> >> >
> >> > But PRT has good symbolic value. Like Flyovers and Metros, they are
> >> there
> >> > towering in front of everyone and hence can be claimed as an
> >> achievement
> >> > of the government. Might be useful for the next election. Along the
> >> way,
> >> > the contractors and the executing agencies have some work. So, we cant
> >> > deny that it benefits some people at least.
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> >
> >> > Ravi Gadepalli,
> >> > i-Trans Pvt. Ltd.,
> >> > TBIU, IIT Delhi,
> >> > New Delhi.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --- On Wed, 27/4/11, Ahuja, Sonal (Capita Symonds)
> >> > <Sonal.Ahuja at capita.co.uk> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > From: Ahuja, Sonal (Capita Symonds) <Sonal.Ahuja at capita.co.uk>
> >> > Subject: [sustran] Re: PRT proposal for Delhi convinces Chief Minister
> >> > To: alok.priyanka at gmail.com,
> >> >  aashu.gupta20 at gmail.com
> >> > Cc: sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org
> >> > Date: Wednesday, 27 April, 2011, 10:11 AM
> >> >
> >> > Indeed this system, must be seen complimentary, metros don't attract
> >> the
> >> > car users due to interchange and park and ride problems, PRT is seen
> >> to
> >> an
> >> > effective complementary system that offer cleaner, convenient and more
> >> > efficient system than riding a car. Its not the only solution but yet
> >> > another system that city planners and engineers can use to solve the
> >> > problem of urban congestion and pollution along with promoting
> >> walking,
> >> > cycling and an effective bus system. PRT must be seen a part of
> >> effective
> >> > comprehensive urban transit strategy and not in isolation.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > With warm regards,
> >> > Sonal
> >> >
> >> > Sonal Ahuja
> >> > Director International Development,
> >> >
> >> > CAPITA SYMONDS
> >> > Technology Transport and Infrastructure
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> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: Jains [mailto:alok.priyanka at gmail.com]
> >> > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 05:15 AM
> >> > To: Aashish Gupta <aashu.gupta20 at gmail.com>
> >> > Cc: sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org
> >> <sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org>
> >> > Subject: [sustran] Re: PRT proposal for Delhi convinces Chief Minister
> >> >
> >> > I am surprised that the entire discussion is going towards
> >> > "substitution" not "complementarity". Delhi already has very ambitious
> >> > plans for Metros (which are full to the brim - coming from personal
> >> > experience) and BRT, but there is a strong need to curb private
> >> > vehicle growth. PRT though tad expensive, could be a perfect feeder
> >> > system to BRT and Metros and for intra-zonal short-distance travel.
> >> >
> >> > Reporting from Delhi.
> >> > Alok Jain
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 5:52 AM, Aashish Gupta
> >> <aashu.gupta20 at gmail.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >> And Rs 6 per Kilometer is just so expensive! And thats assuming that
> >> the
> >> >> claim of Rs 6 per kilometer will stay.
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