[sustran] Re: PRT proposal for Delhi convinces Chief Minister

Lee Schipper schipper at berkeley.edu
Fri Apr 29 08:04:54 JST 2011


Thanks, very interesting.

BRT, at $5-20 million/mile and carrying 10 000 /hour max in peak direction
(many systems exceed that) is far less expensive. Of course BRT works best
on big and dense corridors.

Metrobus' first line in Mexico city (19 km, 12 miles) ran to $100 million
when we count the re-paving of the guideways and include the 100 or so
buses. It carried about 300 000 people/day, or 8000/hour in each direction
averaged (running close to 18 hours/day). It has totally revolutionized
travel in Mexico City, and is now joined by its own extension as well as 2
completely new lines.

The Delhi metro is catching up, but BRT is taking its time there.  Seems
to me as many of you have said that Delhi needs more high capacity lines,
and needs to work growth in population, homes, businesses, stores along
those lines.

The question to all of you is who pays for a low capacity system, and,
even more important, where is it built? Whose homes or business does it
connect the the trunk routes (metro, BRT)? In a sprawling metro region
like Delhi, it seems to me that a PRT system comes out as an expensive way
to move a few people in a very large city.
-- 
Lee



> Dear Dr. Schipper,
>
> The per mile costs, according to a report by VTC are $50 million for
> one-way
> guideway and $75 million for two-way guideway. The report can be found
> here.
> http://faculty.washington.edu/jbs/itrans/big/PRTfinalreport.pdf
>
> The report suggests that capacity can be as high as 3000 persons per hour
> per direction, but 1000 is more realistic.
>
> karthik
>
> On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 9:11 AM, Lee Schipper <schipper at berkeley.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> Ravi, can you re-express the cost as numbers in
>>
>> $/person-hour of capacity?
>>
>> Could be very telling
>> --
>> Lee Schipper, Ph.D
>> Project Scientist
>> Global Metropolitan Studies
>> http://metrostudies.berkeley.edu/
>>
>> Street/Mail Address:
>> UC Berkeley Global Metropolitan Studies
>> 1950 Addison 2nd floor, Berkeley.
>> Berkeley CA 94704-2647
>>
>>
>> +1 510 642 6889,
>> FAX +1 510 642 6061
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>>
>> skype: mrmeter
>>
>>
>>
>> > Dear Sonal,
>> >
>> > I work with an Urban Transport consultancy in Delhi and also worked on
>> a
>> > demand estimation project for PRT in GIFT city, Gujarat, India.  I
>> hope
>> > that makes me reasonably qualified to  put forward my understanding of
>> the
>> > PRT.
>> >
>> > The peak speed of the POD is about 40 kmph. But when you take the
>> access,
>> > egress, waiting  and transfer times, we observed in our study for GIFT
>> > city that people have
>> > lesser travel time cycling or in many cases even walking. This without
>> > even considering the travel cost.
>> >
>> > Cost of construction of PRT is around Rs 40 crore/km (about USD 8
>> million
>> > per km) and its function is to serve as a feeder mode to Metro/BRT..
>> The
>> > cost of BRT will be Rs 10 crore/km (about USD 8 million per km). Even
>> > though the cost for the passenger is fixed at Rs 6/km, the social cost
>> > will be higher. So, the feeder mode is going to cost more than the
>> main
>> > line.
>> >
>> > The other point put in favour of the PRT is that it can work in narrow
>> > lanes, like the one's being designed for Lucknow. We have narrow lanes
>> > in the Old city areas of most of our cities, which were primarily
>> > designed for walking. Why would we need to tamper with that for PRT,
>> > which is intended for the same purpose i.e. accessing the main PT
>> lines
>> > on the arterials.
>> >
>> > But PRT has good symbolic value. Like Flyovers and Metros, they are
>> there
>> > towering in front of everyone and hence can be claimed as an
>> achievement
>> > of the government. Might be useful for the next election. Along the
>> way,
>> > the contractors and the executing agencies have some work. So, we cant
>> > deny that it benefits some people at least.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Ravi Gadepalli,
>> > i-Trans Pvt. Ltd.,
>> > TBIU, IIT Delhi,
>> > New Delhi.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --- On Wed, 27/4/11, Ahuja, Sonal (Capita Symonds)
>> > <Sonal.Ahuja at capita.co.uk> wrote:
>> >
>> > From: Ahuja, Sonal (Capita Symonds) <Sonal.Ahuja at capita.co.uk>
>> > Subject: [sustran] Re: PRT proposal for Delhi convinces Chief Minister
>> > To: alok.priyanka at gmail.com,
>> >  aashu.gupta20 at gmail.com
>> > Cc: sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org
>> > Date: Wednesday, 27 April, 2011, 10:11 AM
>> >
>> > Indeed this system, must be seen complimentary, metros don't attract
>> the
>> > car users due to interchange and park and ride problems, PRT is seen
>> to
>> an
>> > effective complementary system that offer cleaner, convenient and more
>> > efficient system than riding a car. Its not the only solution but yet
>> > another system that city planners and engineers can use to solve the
>> > problem of urban congestion and pollution along with promoting
>> walking,
>> > cycling and an effective bus system. PRT must be seen a part of
>> effective
>> > comprehensive urban transit strategy and not in isolation.
>> >
>> >
>> > With warm regards,
>> > Sonal
>> >
>> > Sonal Ahuja
>> > Director International Development,
>> >
>> > CAPITA SYMONDS
>> > Technology Transport and Infrastructure
>> >
>> > Level 7, 52 Grosvenor Gardens, Belgravia,
>> > London, SW1W 0AU,
>> > United Kingdom
>> >
>> > Tel:
>> >  +44 (0) 77 88 666 523
>> > Fax: +44 (0) 20 7870 9399
>> > Email: sonal.ahuja at capita.co.uk
>> > Web: www.capitasymonds.co.uk
>> > Skype: aonalahuja
>> > India Mobile: 0091 (0)9310 30 6484
>> >
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>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: Jains [mailto:alok.priyanka at gmail.com]
>> > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 05:15 AM
>> > To: Aashish Gupta <aashu.gupta20 at gmail.com>
>> > Cc: sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org
>> <sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org>
>> > Subject: [sustran] Re: PRT proposal for Delhi convinces Chief Minister
>> >
>> > I am surprised that the entire discussion is going towards
>> > "substitution" not "complementarity". Delhi already has very ambitious
>> > plans for Metros (which are full to the brim - coming from personal
>> > experience) and BRT, but there is a strong need to curb private
>> > vehicle growth. PRT though tad expensive, could be a perfect feeder
>> > system to BRT and Metros and for intra-zonal short-distance travel.
>> >
>> > Reporting from Delhi.
>> > Alok Jain
>> >
>> > On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 5:52 AM, Aashish Gupta
>> <aashu.gupta20 at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >> And Rs 6 per Kilometer is just so expensive! And thats assuming that
>> the
>> >> claim of Rs 6 per kilometer will stay.
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