[sustran] Re: PRT proposal for Delhi convinces Chief Minister

Ashok Sreenivas ashok.sreenivas at gmail.com
Wed Apr 27 17:23:56 JST 2011


Dear Sonal

Can you help and elaborate? It would be interesting to get an idea about,
for example, the cost of the infrastructure required, the energy
requirements and sources, what part of the cost would be borne by the
public/state and what by the end users, who is it targeted at, what are the
operating and maintenance costs, subsidy requirements, carrying capacities,
safety features, comparative evaluation with respect to other modes etc.

I believe Dal and many others on this list have a lot of reasons to be
sceptical about many so-called solutions that keep cropping up but are
basically just (apology if the phrase offends) costly technical fantasies of
dubious utility. BTW, like Dal I'm not from Delhi but unlike him I'm from an
Indian city (Pune) - hope that increases the legitimacy of my question a
bit?

You could reply off-list if others are not interested.

Thanks.

Regards
Ashok

On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 2:35 AM, Dal Maluf <dalmaluf at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I'm sorry Sonal, I didn't want to be unfair with this PRT proposal, even
> because I don't much about it, but it just seems unreal...
>
> If it's a good and sustainable system, wonderfull... But most times I've
> seen these type of "magical solutions", they consume a lot of resources and
> time from our governments, with very little deliverables...
>
> I imagine a PRT system all over Delhi would cost billions of dollars,
> and how many people would it move around? 1% of the total trips? 2% of the
> total? I don't need to known much about Delhi, to guess that more than
> 60-70% of public transportation users are in the buses, just because it's
> the only systems that can get people close to their homes, and deliver them
> close to their jobs... London, Sao Paulo, Mexico City, or any large
> developing world city has more people in buses than on subway and that's a
> reality that won't change. I hear my friends from the subway agencies in
> Brazil saying that they will increase their share in public transportation
> for ages, and only buses have increased more their share in comparison to
> the extra trips... That's a fact.
>
> I hope this PRT case is different, but my personal guess is that only BRT
> can really adress the increase in revenues, which means more cars and more
> trips in Delhi... I hope your PRT proposal goes well, but I just can't
> imagine how hard it would be to build a comprehensive PRT system all over
> such a huge metropolis...
>
> It just seems impossible and unfeasible to me under the finantial realities
> that our large developing world cities face...
>
> Good look...
>
> Best,
> Adalberto
>
> De: "Ahuja, Sonal (Capita Symonds)" <Sonal.Ahuja at capita.co.uk>
> Para: dalmaluf at yahoo.com
> Enviadas: Terça-feira, 26 de Abril de 2011 16:29
> Assunto: Re: [sustran] Re: PRT proposal for Delhi convinces Chief Minister
>
> Dear Dal,
>
> What's wrong in delivering a sustainable system for a city. What do you
> know about Delhi? What is your real counter argument?
>
> Have you been in the system. Please don't compare Monorail to PRT. I will
> be happy to help and elaborate.
>
> With warm regards,
> Sonal
>
> Sonal Ahuja
> Director International Development,
>
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> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dal Maluf [mailto:dalmaluf at yahoo.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 08:16 PM
> To: Carlosfelipe Pardo <carlosfpardo at gmail.com>; Faizan Jawed <
> phaizan at gmail.com>
> Cc: sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org <sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org>
> Subject: [sustran] Re: PRT proposal for Delhi convinces Chief Minister
>
> Is it serious?
>
> Come on? Large cities in the developing world, like Delhi, Mumbai, Beijing,
> Rio de Janeiro or Sao Paulo, where I come from, need to invest in "large
> scale" network of public transportation systens that can carry 20,30 40
> thousand persons per hour/directon, and the only way to do it is in the
> existing infra-structure on the surface (taking private cars out, and
> leaving the space for BRTs or LRT)...
>
> Monorails, PRT and all these "futuristic ideas" don't do anything good to
> our cities, rather than taking our the attention of public officials
> on where they should been focusing their priorities.... Here in Sao Paulo,
> because of the "monorail dream" that JICA brought to the Mayor, we
> "lost 2 years" studyng these "futuristic" proposals, wasted millions of
> dollars in project, and now they are all abondoned, but the worst part of it
> was that we didn't deliver the BRTs which were planned, and only last year
> we came back to the long term agenda of investing in BRTs, bycicle and good
> sidewalks, which represents 70% of all trips in Sao Paulo!!!
>
> The only way to really mitigate urban congestion, improve air quality and
> allow more social inclusion to all the City, at the same time that it
> delivers "affordable options" of mobility to all the population is investing
> in BRT systems with good sidewalks and bicycle. Subways, in some very
> speciffic cases where high density and millions of trips in the same
> direction, could also be an option, but generally, BRTs are the best "cost x
> effective" solution...
>
> We got to stop dreaming and "losing" time with these futuristic dreams...
> We need solutions, now!
>
>
> De: Carlosfelipe Pardo <carlosfpardo at gmail.com>
> Para: Faizan Jawed <phaizan at gmail.com>
> Cc: sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org
> Enviadas: Terça-feira, 26 de Abril de 2011 15:58
> Assunto: Re: [sustran] Re: PRT proposal for Delhi convinces Chief Minister
>
> I can only imagine a replication of Bruno Latour's "Aramis"....
>
> On 26/04/2011 12:18 p.m., Faizan Jawed wrote:
> > We might remember (almost) lampooning Roger Davidheiser's vision
> contained
> > in "The Third Generation Roadway:Metropolitan Transport for the 21st
> > Century". It seems it is turning to reality in New Delhi. Some
> "interesting"
> > bits of text has been highlighted by me. Whatever happened to common
> sense!
> >
> > -Faizan
> >
> > ###
> > * After Metro, now Pod Cars for Delhi? *
> > *New Delhi: * Delhi may soon have a pod car system on the lines of those
> in
> > many western cities under which battery operated automated pods, having a
> > capacity to carry up to six passengers, will offer transportation from
> point
> > to point.
> >
> > Delhi Chief Minister Sheila Dikshit, after witnessing a presentation,
> asked
> > Delhi Integrated Multi Modal Transit System Limited (DIMTS) and Transport
> > Department to prepare a detailed project report (DPR) on introduction of
> the
> > pollution free transport system in the city.
> >
> > Pod car system is a public transportation mode featuring small automated
> > vehicles operating on a network of specially-built tracks. In pod car
> > system, vehicles are sized for individual or small group travel,
> typically
> > carrying no more than six passengers per vehicle.
> >
> > After the presentation, Dikshit said her government is keen to take it up
> as
> > a pilot project in areas such as Dwarka, Karol Bagh, East Delhi and Delhi
> > University North Campus.
> >
> > "It will definitely supplement the existing modes of public transport and
> > will come up as an alternative to the personal vehicles," Dikshit said.
> >
> > Transport department officials said the new system may be termed as a
> > personal rapid transit.
> >
> > The private company, which gave the presentation on the project, has
> offered
> > to commission it with its own resources.
> >
> > "Further it will be economically viable as far as the commuters are
> > concerned. The average fare of the pod will come to be around Rs. 6 per
> km,"
> > said the official.
> >
> >
> http://www.ndtv.com/article/cities/after-metro-now-pod-cars-for-delhi-101691
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-- 
Ashok Sreenivas
Prayas Energy Group <http://www.prayaspune.org/peg> and
Parisar<http://www.parisar.org/>


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