[sustran] Re: Pedestrian overpasses

jane. voodikon at yahoo.com
Tue Mar 16 16:30:52 JST 2010


Before we had the flyovers (known so nicely in Chinese as "sky bridges"), we had traffic guards, armed with whistles and vests, up to eight at an intersection, to patrol the traffic, both bike, pedestrian, and vehicular. Only at large intersections did anybody really pay them any mind; some guards were employed to stand at points where pedestrians frequently crossed illegally, and those guards were entirely ineffective. I always had the impression that they were temporary fixes until the sky bridges were put up; and, indeed, even after the sky bridges were open for use, people still adamantly ran across the road at grade (including across meridians and through hedges) until finally a meter-high metal fence was put up all along the meridian.

Jane


________________________________
From: Simon Bishop <simon.bishop at dimts.in>
To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport <sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org>
Sent: Tue, March 16, 2010 1:51:03 PM
Subject: [sustran] Re: Pedestrian overpasses

Should mention value of time and effort, something absolutely sacrosanct to any analysis of VEHICULAR traffic but usually absent when considering pedestrians or cyclists.  When you consider the 'whole journey, door to door' of a pedestrian/public transport user you will often find that the journey time savings from establishing BRT or Metro infrastructure can be reduced significantly when a crossing is altered from being at grade to an FOB.  

In Delhi, like much of the world, the summer temperatures are punishing, trees are no longer planted as part of the road network to offer shade, and wannabee car users have to be given some scraps if they are to be encouraged to keep using public transit. This is especially the case given that the bus already has a significant time/comfort disadvantage over the car when considering door to door journeys, and often the bicycle too for that matter, for distances up to five miles. At grade crossings provide a decent time and comfort saving compared to FOBs.

The FOB also adds unnecessarily amounts effort in climbing, especially for old people and the differently-abled.  Anjlee Aggarwal of NGO Samarthyam calculates this figure at 75% of the population for Delhi when you take into account everyone from women with heavy shopping to asthmatics, etc, etc.  

Let's not kid ourselves either into thinking that those FOBs with escalators/lifts will be working ALL the time (most developing countries suffer from frequent power cuts for one and public agency maintenance is a serious issue), or that we could possibly provide enough lifts and escalator FOBs to make a city permeable).  Subways are frequently closed after 11pm for 'security reasons' just when the drunken drivers are out and about and who likes being stuck in an escalator with someone using it as a urinal?  Transport for London recently found a benefit cost ratio of 7.6 to 1 for CLOSING subways because of their overall dis-benefits.  The difference between FOBs and ped subways isn't all that much.  

The FOB is also a huge deterrent to cyclists as I can vouch for personally having to schlep my bicycle up and down subways and FOBs in Delhi.  No way to encourage public transport, walking or cycling.  

If driver habits are an obstacle they can be changed if there is a will to do so.  On the Delhi BRT, marshals stand at crossings to ensure that pedestrians can cross and believe it or not, when I visit I see cars stopping at red lights now for pedestrians - the message is getting through with no pedestrian accidents over the last year of the BRT.  Most drivers consider it 'inconvenient' to get mixed up in a road accident if they can avoid it.  

The will to change as evinced in the case of Taipei  where FOBs have not been constructed after 1995 might hurry when, in megacities with 20 million or so people, gridlock arrives because everyone has been 'encouraged' to buy a car or motorcycle to avoid those long trips on FOBs and walking around flyovers and round guardrail to get to public transit or make a local journey.  

Would we have failed in our job as planners tho' if it has to reach this stage before any action is taken?  Keep FOBs on motorways please, which should have no part in a densely populated city.

-----Original Message-----
From: sustran-discuss-bounces+simon.bishop=dimts.in at list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+simon.bishop=dimts.in at list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of Michael Replogle
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:14 AM
To: Walter Hook; Colin Brader; Global 'South' Sustainable Transport
Subject: [sustran] Re: Pedestrian overpasses

I agree with Walter Hook, but would add also the issue of traffic volume. 

If there are routine breaks in traffic due to upstream signals, and safety 
refuge islands in the median for pedestrians to cross the street in stages,
crossing three lanes can work at grade without a signal. But it very much helps if there are added
traffic calming devices, such as large bright lane markings, good street lighting,
pedestrian crossing signs, and in some cases raised intersection tables, to which
some places (e.g. Dubai) have even begun to add in pavement LED devices that flash to give
pedestrians increased visibility and legitimacy. 

That said, Dutch traffic engineering design standards for years have said that in towns, 
no more than 2 lanes is appropriate without a refuge for crossing the street in stages.

Michael Replogle
Global Policy Director and Founder
Institute for Transportation and Development Policy
1225 Eye Street NW, Ninth Floor
Washington, DC 20005 USA
+1.202.534.1604
+1.301.529.0351 mobile
mreplogle at itdp.org




On Mar 15, 2010, at 10:44 AM, Walter Hook wrote:

> we've been asked to advise on this issue in many cities and under many
> contexts.  I believe that some basic general principals can be followed but
> also a gut feeling is usually to be trusted.  People can normally cross two
> lanes of reasonably high speed traffic reasonably easily but not three or
> more if they are not at a traffic signal that is going to be respected.
> even two lanes are hard if the average speeds are very high, but as a rule
> of thumb, i would say two lanes of mixed traffic, at grade, and three lanes
> of mixed traffic probably a flyover is better.
> 
> w.
> 
> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 5:47 AM, Colin Brader <brader at itpworld.net> wrote:
> 
>> Dear Carlos
>> 
>> I think you may be generalising a little. Having undertaken  user needs
>> analysis, as part of developing a BRT conceptual design in the
>> Philippines, I have found a strong preference for at-grade crossings. I
>> believe it is then the designers job to either ensure that the at-grade
>> crossing is safe - adequate green times for predicted pedestrian volume,
>> appropriate sight lines and signal design, or if the locality is such
>> that safety cannot be assured, design an over bridge that does not
>> require overt effort to use. The designers appraisal must take full
>> consideration of the conditions within which the crossing is being
>> placed.
>> 
>> 
>> Regards
>> Colin Brader
>> Director
>> Integrated Transport Planning Ltd
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+brader=itpworld.net at list.jca.apc.org
>> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+brader <sustran-discuss-bounces%2Bbrader>=
>> itpworld.net at list.jca.apc.org] On
>> Behalf Of Carlosfelipe Pardo
>> Sent: 15 March 2010 01:42
>> To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport
>> Subject: [sustran] Pedestrian overpasses
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> The issue of everyone preferring pedestrian overpasses instead of
>> level-crossings is pretty much ubiquitous in developing countries in
>> Asia and Latin America (I assume Africa, but I don't know this as a
>> fact). But the most interesting part is that many "experts" and even
>> pedestrians prefer those overpasses, and when asking for "safety" in a
>> crossing they ask for an overpass instead of an adequate crossing! I've
>> been shouted at in meetings where I deny the need to have a specific
>> overpass and urge planners to design a crossing instead... they don't
>> understand that overpasses should be the last recourse, that they are
>> also much more expensive and provide a very negative message to many
>> (you, pedestrian, must do extra effort to cross, while the car must just
>> 
>> whizz by).
>> 
>> This just shows how much we still have to work on these issues...
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> Carlos.
>> 
>> 
>> On 12/03/2010 01:25, jane. wrote:
>>> Here there is no reason given. Like most things in China, they simply
>> just one day appear. Well, it was announced in the newspapers just
>> before construction started, but as I recall, they were simply notices.
>> But I suppose the justification would be something along the lines of
>> "improving traffic."
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Eric Britton<eric.britton at ecoplan.org>
>>> To: Cornie Huizenga<cornie.huizenga at slocatpartnership.org>;
>> jane.<voodikon at yahoo.com>
>>> Cc: Salil Bijur<salilb at gmail.com>; Global 'South' Sustainable
>> Transport<sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org>;
>> Kanchan<kittykanchan at gmail.com>; JasonChang<skchang at ntu.edu.tw>
>>> Sent: Thu, March 11, 2010 11:04:11 PM
>>> Subject: Pedestrian Budget
>>> 
>>> Just to be sure I understand rightly the basics on this one.
>>> 
>>> The idea, if one scratches, is to get the "other stuff" - i.e.,
>> walkers,
>>> cyclists -- out of the way of motorized traffic so that drivers can
>> arrive
>>> unencumbered and on time at their destinations? (No matter how the
>> concept
>>> is otherwise billed.)
>>> 
>>> Do I have that right?
>>> 
>>> Kind thanks for informing,
>>> 
>>> Best/Eric Britton
>>> 
>>> PS. If anyone is up to it, this could be  an excellent truth-seeking
>> piece
>>> for World Streets, with the necessary independent balanced coverage of
>>> course. Candidates?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Note: New Paris tel. +331 7550 3788 . Kindly change your records.
>>> 
>>> World Streets  .  www.worldstreets.org
>>> 8/10, rue Jospeh Bara  .  Paris 75006 France
>>> +331 7550 3788  .  eric.britton at newmobility.org  .  Skype newmobility
>>> New Mobility Partnerships   . www.partners.newmobility.org
>>> 9440 Readcrest Drive  .   Los Angeles, CA 90210
>>> +1 213 984 1277 .  fekbritton at gmail.org .  Skype ericbritton
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Walter Hook
> Executive Director
> Institute for Transportation and Development Policy
> 127 W 26 St, Ste 1002
> New York, NY 10001
> 1-212-629-8001
> www.itdp.org
> 
> Promoting sustainable and equitable transportation worldwide.
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