[sustran] Re: Pedestrian overpasses

[Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory]

Hi all,

First - I hope this does not seem and odd question - for the "experts" 
whom Carlos spoke of and others who ask ITDP about it, etc, what is the 
conceptual or philosophical starting point for a "street"? (And I mean 
all spaces for life between buildings, to paraphrase our dear Mr Gehl). 
Is the simple space between buildings the natural street, with 
everything else adding both positive (e.g. fast collective public 
transport, access for emergency vehicles) and/or negative (e.g. any 
private automobiles, or at least those moving over typical cycling speed)

Or is the starting point the 
total-Hell-we-need-a-flyover-dont-we?-children-are-scared-to-cross-BUT-if-vehicles 
dont-move-fast-enough-the-same-children-will-somehow-starve road?

Second - for wider streets with heavy/fast road vehicles - why not a 
pedestrian signal which allows the slowest walking people to cross in 
one go (no islands), assuming they get to the edge just as the light 
turns green for them? Or on any major pedestrian routes, how about 
having a "green wave" <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_wave> for 
pedestrians with signals based on walking speed along a single route? I 
see no need at all for a pedestrian flyover, even for streets with BRT 
or light rail and close intervals.  So I am agreeing with Colin, but 
Walter, you seem to have some reason to disagree but I can't figure out 
what it is...

- Todd (in Europe, on a pretty busy street)

Walter Hook wrote:
> we've been asked to advise on this issue in many cities and under many
> contexts.  I believe that some basic general principals can be followed but
> also a gut feeling is usually to be trusted.  People can normally cross two
> lanes of reasonably high speed traffic reasonably easily but not three or
> more if they are not at a traffic signal that is going to be respected.
>  even two lanes are hard if the average speeds are very high, but as a rule
> of thumb, i would say two lanes of mixed traffic, at grade, and three lanes
> of mixed traffic probably a flyover is better.
>
> w.
>
> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 5:47 AM, Colin Brader <brader at itpworld.net> wrote:
>
>   
>> Dear Carlos
>>
>> I think you may be generalising a little. Having undertaken  user needs
>> analysis, as part of developing a BRT conceptual design in the
>> Philippines, I have found a strong preference for at-grade crossings. I
>> believe it is then the designers job to either ensure that the at-grade
>> crossing is safe - adequate green times for predicted pedestrian volume,
>> appropriate sight lines and signal design, or if the locality is such
>> that safety cannot be assured, design an over bridge that does not
>> require overt effort to use. The designers appraisal must take full
>> consideration of the conditions within which the crossing is being
>> placed.
>>
>>
>> Regards
>> Colin Brader
>> Director
>> Integrated Transport Planning Ltd
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+brader=itpworld.net at list.jca.apc.org
>> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+brader <sustran-discuss-bounces%2Bbrader>=
>> itpworld.net at list.jca.apc.org] On
>> Behalf Of Carlosfelipe Pardo
>> Sent: 15 March 2010 01:42
>> To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport
>> Subject: [sustran] Pedestrian overpasses
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> The issue of everyone preferring pedestrian overpasses instead of
>> level-crossings is pretty much ubiquitous in developing countries in
>> Asia and Latin America (I assume Africa, but I don't know this as a
>> fact). But the most interesting part is that many "experts" and even
>> pedestrians prefer those overpasses, and when asking for "safety" in a
>> crossing they ask for an overpass instead of an adequate crossing! I've
>> been shouted at in meetings where I deny the need to have a specific
>> overpass and urge planners to design a crossing instead... they don't
>> understand that overpasses should be the last recourse, that they are
>> also much more expensive and provide a very negative message to many
>> (you, pedestrian, must do extra effort to cross, while the car must just
>>
>> whizz by).
>>
>> This just shows how much we still have to work on these issues...
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Carlos.
>>
>>
>> On 12/03/2010 01:25, jane. wrote:
>>     
>>> Here there is no reason given. Like most things in China, they simply
>>>       
>> just one day appear. Well, it was announced in the newspapers just
>> before construction started, but as I recall, they were simply notices.
>> But I suppose the justification would be something along the lines of
>> "improving traffic."
>>     
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Eric Britton<eric.britton at ecoplan.org>
>>> To: Cornie Huizenga<cornie.huizenga at slocatpartnership.org>;
>>>       
>> jane.<voodikon at yahoo.com>
>>     
>>> Cc: Salil Bijur<salilb at gmail.com>; Global 'South' Sustainable
>>>       
>> Transport<sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org>;
>> Kanchan<kittykanchan at gmail.com>; JasonChang<skchang at ntu.edu.tw>
>>     
>>> Sent: Thu, March 11, 2010 11:04:11 PM
>>> Subject: Pedestrian Budget
>>>
>>> Just to be sure I understand rightly the basics on this one.
>>>
>>> The idea, if one scratches, is to get the "other stuff" - i.e.,
>>>       
>> walkers,
>>     
>>> cyclists -- out of the way of motorized traffic so that drivers can
>>>       
>> arrive
>>     
>>> unencumbered and on time at their destinations? (No matter how the
>>>       
>> concept
>>     
>>> is otherwise billed.)
>>>
>>> Do I have that right?
>>>
>>> Kind thanks for informing,
>>>
>>> Best/Eric Britton
>>>
>>> PS. If anyone is up to it, this could be  an excellent truth-seeking
>>>       
>> piece
>>     
>>> for World Streets, with the necessary independent balanced coverage of
>>> course. Candidates?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Note: New Paris tel. +331 7550 3788 . Kindly change your records.
>>>
>>> World Streets  .  www.worldstreets.org
>>> 8/10, rue Jospeh Bara  .  Paris 75006 France
>>> +331 7550 3788  .  eric.britton at newmobility.org  .  Skype newmobility
>>> New Mobility Partnerships   . www.partners.newmobility.org
>>> 9440 Readcrest Drive  .   Los Angeles, CA 90210
>>> +1 213 984 1277 .  fekbritton at gmail.org .  Skype ericbritton
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
>> (the 'Global South').
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>> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
>> (the 'Global South').
>>
>>     
>
>
>
>   


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