[sustran] Re: government planning to restrict private cars in Dhakato reduce traffic jam.

[Jonathan Richmond]

Brendan has come closest to understanding the real situation. Indeed, we 
are talking about a tiny fraction of the fleet, and doing something is 
much better than doing nothing.

But even Brendan must understand the complexities of doing things here. 
There is no way to put into effect the trade-offs he suggests, to say let 
us have less buses and do something else. If you start trying to 
negotiate such complexities, everything falls apart and you end up with 
nothing. Best to stick with one simple proposition that can be achieved. 
If you want to do something else, embark upon it separately.

I have been using my understandings of how developing country governance 
works to try and at least move things forward -- and that includes helping 
government to help itself think about the big issues. The one thing that 
has to be emphasized is keeping things simple: go in with a good 
proposition, get it accepted, and be happy with that. Stretch the rubber 
too far, and all collapses!

So getting some new buses is a good idea as far as I am concerned! 
--Jonathan!

On Wed, 22 Dec 2010, Brendan Finn wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> Here's my tuppence worth on the discussion about a city I have never
> visited:
>
> 1) Dhaka is a big place. 255 buses is a fraction of what is needed to serve
> the urban area. You could probably deploy many times that number of buses
> without interfering in any special requirements for the BRT fleet. To my
> mind, there is no need for this to be a conflict.
>
> 2) Jonathan, who has worked there, has already pointed out that the current
> fleet is dire. New buses should at least give advantages of comfort and
> technical reliability, as well as the basis for restructuring some of the
> operator sector. Something is surely better than nothing in this situation.
>
> 3) In my opinion, the issues of driver training and maintenance are likely
> to centre on earning sufficient income from the new buses to fund these
> essential activities. If there is merely a new bus for old bus substitution,
> earning sufficient income may prove a difficult challenge. Buses alone are
> unlikely to be sustainable.
>
> 4) From my ivory tower of not knowing the realities on the ground, I would
> ask for a different package. I would say:  "please give me 200 new buses,
> and convert the capital cost of the other 55 buses into:
>
> - some bus lanes so I can do the job of 300 buses today with my 200 new
> buses
> - some improved bus stopping places so my passengers have a proper place to
> stand, and can actually reach it
> - some training of my drivers, so my buses are driven properly, safely, and
> are not destroyed before their time
> - some modern maintenance equipment and facilities, so I can get a good
> working life from my assets and keep them in presentable condition
> - some training for my maintenance workers, so they understand how these new
> buses should be looked after
> - some practical, fit-for-purpose business and operational management
> software, so I can run my business better
> - your support in public, so the people have confidence in what we are doing
> together"
>
> With best wishes to all, especially those endeavouring to improve
> transportation in Dhaka,
>
>
> Brendan.
> _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> Brendan Finn          e-mail : etts at indigo.ie          tel : +353.87.2530286
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Pardo" <carlosfpardo at gmail.com>
> To: "eric britton" <eric.britton at ecoplan.org>
> Cc: <xeda702xoda at post.wordpress.com>; "Global 'South' Sustainable Transport"
> <sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 12:31 PM
> Subject: [sustran] Re: government planning to restrict private cars in
> Dhakato reduce traffic jam.
>
>
>> Buying buses on its own, wherever they have doors, will never solve urban
>> transport problems if they do not have a proper regulation plan in place.
>> I would have welcomed more an announcement from Dhaka saying that they
>> would start to properly regulate and plan bus operations. Buying toys may
>> seem nice, but with he same driver training, maintenance, regulation
>> structure and contracts (if there are any) will just produce the same
>> result in five years, with the added phrase: "we tried but this bus thing
>> doesn't work. Let's buy helicopters for everyone".
>>
>> Carlos
>>
>> Written with my thumbs. Please excuse typos.
>>
>> On 22/12/2010, at 6:52, "eric britton" <eric.britton at ecoplan.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Check and mate:
>>>
>>> Our strong consensus here in the last couple of hours has really put the
>>> finger on it. We have learned (at high cost)  that when you are dealing
>>> with
>>> complex systems like transport in large cities, you can't depend on
>>> piecemeal or mechanical solutions to sort out what are in fact complex
>>> interactive organic problems.  Fix-it approaches like this  are doomed to
>>> failure before we even get them out of the box.
>>>
>>> What can we do -- all of us here who have been working on and fretting
>>> about
>>> these issues for years, and often with real results at the level of the
>>> streets of the city -- -- to help local and national government do what
>>> is
>>> needed to understand, develop and implement a real sustainability
>>> strategy
>>> worthy of the name and the needs?  It does not have to be a huge
>>> complicated
>>> deal and take all kinds of time. We don't have to publish pages of PhD
>>> dissertations to help.  We have the experience, the knowledge, the tools
>>> and
>>> the means to help.
>>>
>>> So, where do we start?
>>>
>>> Eric Britton
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> On Behalf Of Karthik Rao-Cavale
>>> Sent: Wednesday, 22 December, 2010 12:40
>>>
>>> "The new vehicles will have the doors on the wrong side of the vehicle
>>> for
>>> the BRT system, and
>>> thus will act as a wedge against a quality BRT in the future."
>>>
>>> I wonder, are BRTs the ends or the means of sustainable urban transport?
>>> It
>>> is true that "classical" BRT systems have median bus stops with dedicated
>>> buses, but these are not necessarily most appropriate for cities in the
>>> subcontinent. But transportation planners in the subcontinent cannot
>>> afford
>>> to be bound by dogma. Preventing a city from increasing its bus fleet
>>> just
>>> because that would not work in favour of implementing a "classical" BRTS
>>> sounds just absurd to me.
>>>
>>> In India, and I suspect that this is true of Dhaka also, streets are
>>> often
>>> too narrow for dedicated bus lanes to be possible. And yet buses do need
>>> to
>>> ply on these streets if everyone is to be within reasonable distance of a
>>> bus stop. So you do need regular buses. And if one seat rides are to be
>>> possible, you need the same buses plying on the regular roads to also run
>>> in
>>> the BRT lanes, if they exist. There are two ways of making that possible.
>>> One is to have doors on both sides in buses. The other is to have bus
>>> stops
>>> on the curb side of the bus lane rather than the median.
>>>
>>> I personally believe that the BRT should be fully integrated into the
>>> city's
>>> bus system, in which case the only option short of a complete turnover of
>>> the bus fleet is to have curbside bus stops. This was precisely what
>>> Delhi
>>> BRT did, and I think it is a good design.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> On Behalf Of Kanthi Kannan
>>> Sent: Wednesday, 22 December, 2010 04:25.
>>>
>>> Dear Syed
>>>
>>> Greetings!!
>>>
>>> It is indeed good that the politician has started thinking about traffic
>>> jams and also realising that road widening/ building new flyovers is not
>>> a
>>> solution.
>>>
>>> In all parts of the subcontinent, the issues are very similar.
>>>
>>> The question is what are the steps that need to be taken? And is the
>>> banning
>>> of private cars a solution?
>>>
>>> In Hyderabad, the government has got about 350 buses (and many more to
>>> come)
>>> under the JnNURM scheme and the buses indeed are classy.
>>>
>>> Then why is it that the traffic has gone from bad to worse and it shows
>>> no
>>> signs of getting better?
>>>
>>> The bus stops/ shelters are inaccessible and nobody really has a clue as
>>> to
>>> which bus stops where and where it goes etc. By inaccessibility I mean
>>> that
>>> the bus stops have a cess pool of water in front of them and of course
>>> garbage strewn all over the place and of course men urinating in the open
>>> and why do we forget the hanging wires?
>>>
>>> There is no point of giving a free ride to the physically challenged if
>>> we
>>> do not provide the steps to ensure that they are able to reach the bus
>>> station and also importantly the door of the bus is wide enough to
>>> accommodate the wheel car.
>>>
>>> There are hundreds of issues regarding the bus shelters and I think that
>>> all
>>> of us in the sub continent are familiar with it.
>>>
>>> The important thing is that these have to be solved if we have to attract
>>> people to use PT.
>>>
>>> Another major issue is that some people will be more equal than others.
>>> And
>>> the ministers etc will travel in style and many other big shots will get
>>> passes to exempt them from the penalty.
>>>
>>> What needs to be done?
>>>
>>> A. Ensure that the government employees use PT/ non motorised transport
>>> at
>>> least once a week to and fro from office. If the "Bade Log" use it then
>>> definitely all the others will follow suit.
>>>
>>> B. Examine the connectivity issue and other issues like overcrowding,
>>> punctuality among others (definitely not rocket science), and try to make
>>> it
>>> possible for people to take PT.
>>>
>>> I think that all of us converts have been saying for a
>>> loooooooooooooooong
>>> time, the will to make a change is what is needed.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Kanthi Kannan
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> On Behalf Of Cornie Huizenga
>>> Sent: 22 December 2010 07:30
>>> To: Syed Saiful Alam
>>>
>>> Dear Syed,
>>>
>>> Thanks for sharing this with us. While I think that it is a good idea to
>>> restrict the use of private cars and promote public transport I am
>>> somehow
>>> lost when I read your email.
>>>
>>> First of all, my guess is that well over 50% of cars will have less than
>>> 4
>>> persons in it. That would mean that you would ban almost all private
>>> cars.
>>> Second if such rules are applied as in the case of Jakarta it is only for
>>> certain streets.  The success in Jakarta has been mixed I think.
>>>
>>> More traditional approaches to reduce the use of cars would be: (a) make
>>> driving more expensive through registration fees for private cars, higher
>>> fuel prices (with subsidies if required for public transport), or (b)
>>> higher
>>> parking rates in city center or banning of parking.
>>>
>>> Enforcement will be an issue of whatever measure is put up and I would
>>> argue that registration fees, fuel prices are more easily to enforce than
>>> number of people in the cars.
>>>
>>> At the same time if you restrict use of private cars you will need sound
>>> alternatives. I am not certain whether buying 255 busses is really that
>>> sound alternative.
>>>
>>> Nevertheless, it is great that the honourable Minister is starting to
>>> acknowledge that there is a problem and that he is not suggesting to
>>> build
>>> more roads :-)
>>>
>>> Cornie
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> Behalf Of Lee Schipper
>>> Sent: Wednesday, 22 December, 2010 07:24
>>>
>>> Second Lloyd's concern. Informal carpools -- people who DO want to ride
>>> from A to B and go with drivers who get special lane access with 2 or 3
>>> in the car- are popular in the US. Would not at all e unusual for the
>>> well to do to hire riders in Dhaka! Wish they would pay ME to ride in
>>> San Francisco.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Lloyd Wright
>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 10:06 PM
>>>
>>> As the other commentators have noted, restricting private motorised
>>> vehicles in Dhaka would be a highly positive development.
>>>
>>>
>>> However, the proposed mechanism would be problematic.  By requiring a
>>> minimum of four passengers in a vehicle, a new industry would emerge
>>> where individuals would be employed to ride in the vehicles for the mere
>>> sake of meeting the quota.  The emergence of such street jockeys in
>>> Jakarta has largely undermined its 3-in-1 programme.  In many cases,
>>> students abandon school to be employed in this manner.
>>>
>>> With regard to the new buses, this plan could also be problematic.
>>> While certainly Dhaka's fleet needs to be replaced, simply purchasing
>>> new buses will likely act to further deter the move to a BRT system.
>>> The new vehicles will have the doors on the wrong side of the vehicle
>>> for the BRT system, and thus will act as a wedge against a quality BRT
>>> in the future.
>>>
>>> And given that the buses will have a life in the Dhaka context of 15 to
>>> 20 years, the impact on the potential BRT system could be fatal.  Would
>>> it not be better to use the proposed investment in a system that fully
>>> addresses all the components of a quality public transport system (e.g.
>>> walkable access to stations, quality and secure stations, dedicated
>>> lanes for public transport, and vehicles that are compatible with a
>>> quality system)?
>>> Furthermore, by operating in mixed traffic under the current conditions,
>>> the "new" buses will largely be "old" buses within a few years.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Lloyd
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+lwright=vivacities.org at list.jca.apc.org
>>> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+lwright=vivacities.org at list.jca.apc.org]
>>> On Behalf Of Jonathan Richmond
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 6:50
>>>
>>> I also read the story in today's newspaper. Please note, however, that
>>> any attempt to restrict car movement in Dhaka's central city will
>>> require a consensus throughout government and complex legal and
>>> administrative procedures.
>>>
>>> Regarding the buses, I have been developing BRT and general bus
>>> reorganization programmes here to try to radically improve service
>>> levels. However, now that consultants have been selected for a major BRT
>>> implementation study, the government has decided not to extend my
>>> contract -- hence my recent note to some of you to ask if any of you
>>> have ideas for my next assignment!
>>>
>>> General bus purchases are necessary because Dhaka's bus fleet is in
>>> almost unbelievably poor condition. In fact, nowhere in the world have I
>>> seen buses that are quite so dilapidated. The buses are driven
>>> dangerously and there is very little maintenance. So getting something
>>> new is a start.
>>> However, work needs to be done to find ways to encourage the industry to
>>> maintain its fleet in better condition. There are financial and
>>> organizational constraints to accomplishing this, and they need to be
>>> overcome.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>>                           --Jonathan
>>>
>>> Jonathan Richmond
>>> Public Transport Advisor
>>> Dhaka Transport Coordination Board
>>> Ministry of Communications
>>> Government of Bangladesh
>>> Nagar Bhaban, 13-14th Floor
>>> Dhaka-1000
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> On Tue, 21 Dec 2010, Lee Schipper wrote:
>>>
>>> Good news indeed but just buses without dedicated lanes? Who can move
>>> under those conditions?
>>>
>>> Lee Schipper
>>> Global Met Studies  UC Berkeley
>>> Precourt En Eff Center Stanford
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> On Dec 21, 2010, at 17:37, "Syed Saiful Alam" <shovan1209 at yahoo.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear all Good news for all our activist that  The government of
>>> Bangladesh is planning to restrict the movement of private cars in Dhaka
>>> to reduce nagging traffic jam.
>>> "Private cars with less than four or five passengers will not be
>>> allowed
>>> to ply the city streets," finance minister Abul Maal Abdul Muhith told
>>> reporters at the secretariat on Tuesday.
>>>
>>> "We'll have to make public transport system more efficient for the
>>> people," he said.
>>>
>>> He said they had approved a proposal to buy 255 buses to make the
>>> public
>>> transport system more effective. "Public transport should be meant for
>>> public but now a few people are creating anarchy in the field."
>>>
>>> The minister said: "Traffic jam is the biggest allegation against the
>>> government.
>>>
>>> The cabinet committee on purchase has approved the proposal to buy
>>> 255
>>> Korean buses for BRTC under EDCF loan of Tk 2.12 billion.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Syed Saiful alam
>>> shovan1209 at yahoo.com
>>> +8801552442814
>>> Are private cars the ideal transport? www.dhaka-rickshaw.blogspot.com
>>>
>
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-----
Jonathan Richmond
Public Transport Advisor
Dhaka Transport Coordination Board
Ministry of Communications
Government of Bangladesh
Nagar Bhaban, 13-14th Floor
Dhaka-1000
Bangladesh

Phone: +880 (0)1714 179013
Fax:   +880 (0)2 956-8892

e-mail: richmond at alum.mit.edu
http://the-tech.mit.edu/~richmond/