[sustran] Re: India car horn advert

Dr Adhiraj Joglekar adhiraj.joglekar at googlemail.com
Fri Nov 20 21:47:03 JST 2009
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I too disagree with the view of the advertiser expressed through a cleverly
worded e-mail.

A good advert generally appeals to the emotional brain of the end user. A
product often is sold not on basis of logic but how its imprinted on our
mind. If we go back 10 years and recollect which adverts come to our mind,
its likely the most absurd, funny and / or irrelevant ones will crop up. A
coffee advert with girls in a bikini!! (MR Coffee).

Can the advert maker explain why a bunch of people / mob was chosen in the
advert. How commonly in India are cars stalled by pedestrians as against
jams caused by other vehicles? Would it not have been prudent then (if logic
was used) to show a helpless lady driver in a traffic jam using her horn to
bull doze through the jam?

 The ad-makers use metophorical language more than rationality. I have not
seen this advert but the metaphor here is that 'a car = power'. In a
socio-political system where the common man feels helpless and powerless at
every turn, the seat behind the steering wheel amazingly is one place where
we think we are in full control.

Since you have contact with the people who commissioned this advert, perhaps
you may want to consider sending them the collection of our responses.

Adhiraj
www.driving-india.blogspot.com
2009/11/20 <sustran-discuss-request at list.jca.apc.org>

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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial (Kanthi Kannan)
>   2. Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial (Gantasala Visweswara Rao)
>   3. Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial (Sujit Patwardhan)
>   4. Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial (Madhav Pai)
>   5. Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial (Sunny Kodukula)
>   6. Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial (Sarath Guttikunda)
>   7. Re: Road Safety (Kanthi Kannan)
>   8. Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial (Rutul Joshi)
>   9. Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial (Sudhir)
>  10. Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial (Sunny Kodukula)
>  11. Re: India - Bosch Horn commercial (Eric Britton)
>  12. Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial (Eric Britton)
>  13. women who are doing outstanding work (Eric Britton)
>  14. Another car* ad you may have seen,        surprisingly it may be
>      legal (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory)
>  15. First Global Ministerial Conference on Road Safety [was Re:
>      Road Safety] (Morten Lange)
>  16. Re: First Global Ministerial Conference on Road Safety [was
>      Re:       Road Safety] (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory)
>  17. Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial (Sujit Patwardhan)
>  18. Re: First Global Ministerial Conference on Road Safety    [was
>      Re:       Road Safety] (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 11:05:20 +0530
> From: "Kanthi Kannan" <kanthikannan at gmail.com>
> Subject: [sustran] FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial
> To: <sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org>
> Message-ID: <4b04d928.0d0bca0a.03e8.095f at mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
>
> Dear all
>
>
>
> Greetings!!
>
>
>
> I have contacted the ad agency and here is what they have to say. Please do
> go through it and check whether it is acceptable.  I am personally
> satisfied
> and feel that there is no need to take this up at a different level. ( My
> feeling many of you might not share it).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Kanthi Kannan
>
>
>
> THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT WALK
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  "Horns are approved standard equipment in all auto products. All Bosch
> products comply with the highest environmental standards worldwide.
> Indiscriminate honking is not a practice Bosch encourages. Nor is it what
> the Bosch Horns TVC promotes. As much as it does not seek to promote
> pedestrian indiscipline.
>
> The commercial  reflects (and possibly exaggerates) what any driver would
> encounter on any given day in most busy city streets: a mob in a heated
> argument in the middle of a narrow road, blocking all traffic, without
> intending to do so. Clearly the mob before the young lady driver in the
> commercial do not pay her any heed and a continue to block the road and her
> path. The volatility of the situation in the commercial is what makes the
> young lady choose to stay in her car and not put herself at any personal
> risk. Her conspicuous, brightly colored car at a standstill, she waits,
> hoping they will notice her clear the road, giving her right of way. They
> don't. She looks helpless. As a last resort she blows her horn. It is
> certainly not a case of indiscriminate honking."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 11:10:29 +0530
> From: Gantasala Visweswara Rao <vissu.indian at gmail.com>
> Subject: [sustran] Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial
> To: Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan at gmail.com>,
>        sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org
> Message-ID:
>        <c01765340911182140o3b59cbb8p4c791ae708967b6b at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Very Convincing...
> --Vissu.
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Dear all
> >
> >
> >
> > Greetings!!
> >
> >
> >
> > I have contacted the ad agency and here is what they have to say. Please
> do
> > go through it and check whether it is acceptable.  I am personally
> > satisfied
> > and feel that there is no need to take this up at a different level. ( My
> > feeling many of you might not share it).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Kanthi Kannan
> >
> >
> >
> > THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT WALK
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  "Horns are approved standard equipment in all auto products. All Bosch
> > products comply with the highest environmental standards worldwide.
> > Indiscriminate honking is not a practice Bosch encourages. Nor is it what
> > the Bosch Horns TVC promotes. As much as it does not seek to promote
> > pedestrian indiscipline.
> >
> > The commercial  reflects (and possibly exaggerates) what any driver would
> > encounter on any given day in most busy city streets: a mob in a heated
> > argument in the middle of a narrow road, blocking all traffic, without
> > intending to do so. Clearly the mob before the young lady driver in the
> > commercial do not pay her any heed and a continue to block the road and
> her
> > path. The volatility of the situation in the commercial is what makes the
> > young lady choose to stay in her car and not put herself at any personal
> > risk. Her conspicuous, brightly colored car at a standstill, she waits,
> > hoping they will notice her clear the road, giving her right of way. They
> > don't. She looks helpless. As a last resort she blows her horn. It is
> > certainly not a case of indiscriminate honking."
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
> > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
> >
> > ================================================================
> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> > (the 'Global South').
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Vissu
>
> Support Akshaya patra: Unlimited food for education (
> http://www.akshayapatra.org/donate.html)
> Every small contribution makes a difference.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 11:21:18 +0530
> From: Sujit Patwardhan <patwardhan.sujit at gmail.com>
> Subject: [sustran] Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial
> To: Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan at gmail.com>
> Cc: sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org
> Message-ID:
>        <8fba064c0911182151k33a9d855q62faf7763c44b0f0 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> Sorry Kanthi,
>
> Not at all convincing.
>
> If you are NOT a car driver and stuck in a traffic jam what do you do?
> Justifying blowing the horn (in a manacing manner anyway) implies you agree
> with the law of the jungle. It is a warning to non-car users to get out of
> the way or else !!
>
> If all are suck in a jam why should any one move aside and make way for the
> car? No one moves out of the way for a cyclist or a pedestrian and
> Sustainable Transportation Vision is trying to change precisely this
> outdated attitude/vision.
>
> The explanation given by the Advertising Agency is nothing but an excuse to
> our continuing to accept Car Domination.
>
> Sorry doesn't cut any ice with me.
>
> --
> Sujit
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Dear all
> >
> >
> >
> > Greetings!!
> >
> >
> >
> > I have contacted the ad agency and here is what they have to say. Please
> do
> > go through it and check whether it is acceptable.  I am personally
> > satisfied
> > and feel that there is no need to take this up at a different level. ( My
> > feeling many of you might not share it).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Kanthi Kannan
> >
> >
> >
> > THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT WALK
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  "Horns are approved standard equipment in all auto products. All Bosch
> > products comply with the highest environmental standards worldwide.
> > Indiscriminate honking is not a practice Bosch encourages. Nor is it what
> > the Bosch Horns TVC promotes. As much as it does not seek to promote
> > pedestrian indiscipline.
> >
> > The commercial  reflects (and possibly exaggerates) what any driver would
> > encounter on any given day in most busy city streets: a mob in a heated
> > argument in the middle of a narrow road, blocking all traffic, without
> > intending to do so. Clearly the mob before the young lady driver in the
> > commercial do not pay her any heed and a continue to block the road and
> her
> > path. The volatility of the situation in the commercial is what makes the
> > young lady choose to stay in her car and not put herself at any personal
> > risk. Her conspicuous, brightly colored car at a standstill, she waits,
> > hoping they will notice her clear the road, giving her right of way. They
> > don't. She looks helpless. As a last resort she blows her horn. It is
> > certainly not a case of indiscriminate honking."
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
> > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
> >
> > ================================================================
> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> > (the 'Global South').
> >
>
>
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> ?..each million we invest into urban motorways is an investment
> to destroy the city?
>
> Mayor Hans Joachim Vogel
> Munich 1970
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Sujit Patwardhan
> patwardhan.sujit at gmail.com
> sujitjp at gmail.com
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yamuna, ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007, India
> Tel: +91 20 25537955
> Cell: +91 98220 26627
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Parisar: www.parisar.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 01:02:39 -0500
> From: "Madhav Pai" <MPai at wri.org>
> Subject: [sustran] Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial
> To: "Sujit Patwardhan" <patwardhan.sujit at gmail.com>,    "Kanthi Kannan"
>        <kanthikannan at gmail.com>
> Cc: sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org
> Message-ID:
>
>  <46E2E1971BCEC1459149FBB1A4B4342C0641CD2D at wricsex029330.WRI.CRM.Local>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="US-ASCII"
>
> I completely agree with Sujit. Will these cars back off and make way for
> pedestrians if they use an equally annoying horn (I don't recommend
> doing it). The response is based on their extremly car-centric view of
> the World. Her conspicuous, brightly colored car at a standstill it
> seems, what about the beautiful humans that she plans runover if they
> don't yeild to her Bosch horn.
>
> Madhav
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+mpai=wri.org at list.jca.apc.org
> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+mpai <sustran-discuss-bounces%2Bmpai>=
> wri.org at list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf
> Of Sujit Patwardhan
> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 11:21 AM
> To: Kanthi Kannan
> Cc: sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org
> Subject: [sustran] Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial
>
> Sorry Kanthi,
>
> Not at all convincing.
>
> If you are NOT a car driver and stuck in a traffic jam what do you do?
> Justifying blowing the horn (in a manacing manner anyway) implies you
> agree with the law of the jungle. It is a warning to non-car users to
> get out of the way or else !!
>
> If all are suck in a jam why should any one move aside and make way for
> the car? No one moves out of the way for a cyclist or a pedestrian and
> Sustainable Transportation Vision is trying to change precisely this
> outdated attitude/vision.
>
> The explanation given by the Advertising Agency is nothing but an excuse
> to our continuing to accept Car Domination.
>
> Sorry doesn't cut any ice with me.
>
> --
> Sujit
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Kanthi Kannan
> <kanthikannan at gmail.com>wrote:
>
> > Dear all
> >
> >
> >
> > Greetings!!
> >
> >
> >
> > I have contacted the ad agency and here is what they have to say.
> > Please do go through it and check whether it is acceptable.  I am
> > personally satisfied and feel that there is no need to take this up at
>
> > a different level. ( My feeling many of you might not share it).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Kanthi Kannan
> >
> >
> >
> > THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT WALK
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  "Horns are approved standard equipment in all auto products. All
> > Bosch products comply with the highest environmental standards
> worldwide.
> > Indiscriminate honking is not a practice Bosch encourages. Nor is it
> > what the Bosch Horns TVC promotes. As much as it does not seek to
> > promote pedestrian indiscipline.
> >
> > The commercial  reflects (and possibly exaggerates) what any driver
> > would encounter on any given day in most busy city streets: a mob in a
>
> > heated argument in the middle of a narrow road, blocking all traffic,
> > without intending to do so. Clearly the mob before the young lady
> > driver in the commercial do not pay her any heed and a continue to
> > block the road and her path. The volatility of the situation in the
> > commercial is what makes the young lady choose to stay in her car and
> > not put herself at any personal risk. Her conspicuous, brightly
> > colored car at a standstill, she waits, hoping they will notice her
> > clear the road, giving her right of way. They don't. She looks
> > helpless. As a last resort she blows her horn. It is certainly not a
> case of indiscriminate honking."
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the
> > real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
> >
> > ================================================================
> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing
> > countries (the 'Global South').
> >
>
>
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> "..each million we invest into urban motorways is an investment to
> destroy the city"
>
> Mayor Hans Joachim Vogel
> Munich 1970
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Sujit Patwardhan
> patwardhan.sujit at gmail.com
> sujitjp at gmail.com
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------
> Yamuna, ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007, India
> Tel: +91 20 25537955
> Cell: +91 98220 26627
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------
> Parisar: www.parisar.org
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------
> --------------------------------------------------------
> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
>
> ================================================================
> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South').
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 11:46:39 +0530
> From: Sunny Kodukula <sunny.enie at gmail.com>
> Subject: [sustran] Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial
> To: Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan at gmail.com>
> Cc: sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org
> Message-ID: <4B04E2C7.8020209 at googlemail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> Sorry Kanthi, I am not satisfied and when a pedestrian is treated like a
> moving "thing" on the street (not even a road) which will make way with
> sound, this is really sad and also not treating other humans alike,
> forget the animals that's another story for the blue cross.
>
> I like the word pedestrian "indiscipline", if the people walk on roads
> it is indiscipline and cars go in the middle of two lanes it is
> perfectly fine. Our cities we try to control the people who cross the
> roads at grade than trying to control the cars that do not stick to
> lanes. Anyway, Who is Bosch to decide what pedestrian indiscipline is!
>
> The lady in the commercial always had the option to leave her car behind
> and walk in the "narrow" street. So Bosch is actually supporting people
> driving cars in narrow streets and also to honk.
>
> those were my 2 cents
>
> cheers
> sunny
>
>
> On 19/11/09 11:05 AM, Kanthi Kannan wrote:
> > Dear all
> >
> > Greetings!!
> >
> > I have contacted the ad agency and here is what they have to say. Please
> do
> > go through it and check whether it is acceptable.  I am personally
> satisfied
> > and feel that there is no need to take this up at a different level. ( My
> > feeling many of you might not share it).
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Kanthi Kannan
> >
> > THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT WALK
> >
> >   "Horns are approved standard equipment in all auto products. All Bosch
> > products comply with the highest environmental standards worldwide.
> > Indiscriminate honking is not a practice Bosch encourages. Nor is it what
> > the Bosch Horns TVC promotes. As much as it does not seek to promote
> > pedestrian indiscipline.
> >
> > The commercial  reflects (and possibly exaggerates) what any driver would
> > encounter on any given day in most busy city streets: a mob in a heated
> > argument in the middle of a narrow road, blocking all traffic, without
> > intending to do so. Clearly the mob before the young lady driver in the
> > commercial do not pay her any heed and a continue to block the road and
> her
> > path. The volatility of the situation in the commercial is what makes the
> > young lady choose to stay in her car and not put herself at any personal
> > risk. Her conspicuous, brightly colored car at a standstill, she waits,
> > hoping they will notice her clear the road, giving her right of way. They
> > don't. She looks helpless. As a last resort she blows her horn. It is
> > certainly not a case of indiscriminate honking."
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
> >
> > ================================================================
> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South').
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 12:15:14 +0530
> From: Sarath Guttikunda <sguttikunda at gmail.com>
> Subject: [sustran] Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial
> To: Sunny Kodukula <sunny.enie at gmail.com>
> Cc: sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org
> Message-ID:
>        <683ba1ca0911182245n54f36b6ag2b51c8a4e2ae2e4a at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Good points.
>
> I can only quote one example, close to my residence in Delhi.
>
> Along the BRT lane, there is a provision for the  cyclists, 2 meter lane,
> which is a great idea. As you get close to the Chirag Dili flyover (from
> north), because of the increasing congestion at the junction, the traffic
> management decided to convert at least 200m of the cycle lane into a left
> only lane for the motor vehicles.
>
> Which is also fine, helps with the congestion and speed up the left turns
> (India - we drive on the left side). Now, the annoying thing is when car
> drivers honk at the cycles and cycle rickshaws who are in the lane and
> obviously going slower than them.. drivers get annoyed at their presence.
> And I get annoyed at the drivers honking !!
>
> So, two questions.. (1) driver's indiscipline when given an opportunity to
> use a section which does not belong to them and (2) when did a plan for
> promoting NMT become an excuse for road expansion?
>
> With regards,
> Sarath
> (Not a Car Owner)
>
> --
> Sarath Guttikunda
> New Delhi, India
> Phone: +91 9891 315 946
> @ http://www.urbanemissions.info
> @ http://www.dri.edu/People/Sarath.Guttikunda/
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 11:46 AM, Sunny Kodukula <sunny.enie at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Sorry Kanthi, I am not satisfied and when a pedestrian is treated like a
> > moving "thing" on the street (not even a road) which will make way with
> > sound, this is really sad and also not treating other humans alike,
> > forget the animals that's another story for the blue cross.
> >
> > I like the word pedestrian "indiscipline", if the people walk on roads
> > it is indiscipline and cars go in the middle of two lanes it is
> > perfectly fine. Our cities we try to control the people who cross the
> > roads at grade than trying to control the cars that do not stick to
> > lanes. Anyway, Who is Bosch to decide what pedestrian indiscipline is!
> >
> > The lady in the commercial always had the option to leave her car behind
> > and walk in the "narrow" street. So Bosch is actually supporting people
> > driving cars in narrow streets and also to honk.
> >
> > those were my 2 cents
> >
> > cheers
> > sunny
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 12:48:27 +0530
> From: "Kanthi Kannan" <kanthikannan at gmail.com>
> Subject: [sustran] Re: Road Safety
> To: <sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org>
> Message-ID: <4b04f154.0e0bca0a.030e.0ba5 at mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> Dear all
>
>
>
>
>
> Greetings!!
>
>
>
>
>
> Any idea as to who is representing India in the First Global Ministerial
> Conference on Road Safety.
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks and Regards
>
>
> Kanthi Kannan
>
>
>
>
>
> THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT WALK
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:14:28 +0530 (IST)
> From: Rutul Joshi <joshirutul at yahoo.co.in>
> Subject: [sustran] Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial
> To: sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org
> Message-ID: <496326.93821.qm at web8401.mail.in.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> I agree with Sunny, Madhav and Sujit.
> Let me draw your attention to the voice overs when the 'helpless woman' is
> stuck in front of 'the mob(!)'. The voice over says, "I am not afraid of
> obstacles" and the male voice, " zero compromise horns from Bosch...when
> there is no compromise, there is no fear!" She blows horn because she is not
> afraid of 'obstacles'! It is an outright pro-honking commercial which
> aggressively potrays the priority of car-users over the pedestrians. I do
> not think that anyone can legitimize it by using the 'helpless woman' card.
> What is zero-compromise horns, btw? And what is this portrayal of 'no fear,
> no obstacles' philosophy here?
>
> One can also not buy the argument that horns are like all other approved
> auto products with high environmental standards. Everything fixed on a
> motorized vehicle may be 'approved' but not necessarily harmless. It is
> always the thousand horns blowing at a time, which make life miserable in
> cities.
>
> Finally, it is never about one commercial or this commercial per say. but
> is always about how 'just' are we. We understand that advertisers have to
> exaggerate things but we also bane cigarette commercials. Personally, I
> think horn commercials are as contagious, powerful and anti-social as
> cigarette commercials and they should be banned. There are also double
> standards here on the company's part. Would they have the same commercial in
> their European market?
>
> best,
> Rutul.
>
> PS: As an awareness campaign, I would borrow Madhav's idea. One day, all
> the pedestrians in the city should move around with horns! Would they
> out-number the car horns?
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Sunny Kodukula <sunny.enie at gmail.com>
> To: Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan at gmail.com>
> Cc: sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org
> Sent: Thu, 19 November, 2009 11:46:39 AM
> Subject: [sustran] Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial
>
> Sorry Kanthi, I am not satisfied and when a pedestrian is treated like a
> moving "thing" on the street (not even a road) which will make way with
> sound, this is really sad and also not treating other humans alike,
> forget the animals that's another story for the blue cross.
>
> I like the word pedestrian "indiscipline", if the people walk on roads
> it is indiscipline and cars go in the middle of two lanes it is
> perfectly fine. Our cities we try to control the people who cross the
> roads at grade than trying to control the cars that do not stick to
> lanes. Anyway, Who is Bosch to decide what pedestrian indiscipline is!
>
> The lady in the commercial always had the option to leave her car behind
> and walk in the "narrow" street. So Bosch is actually supporting people
> driving cars in narrow streets and also to honk.
>
> those were my 2 cents
>
> cheers
> sunny
>
>
> On 19/11/09 11:05 AM, Kanthi Kannan wrote:
> > Dear all
> >
> > Greetings!!
> >
> > I have contacted the ad agency and here is what they have to say. Please
> do
> > go through it and check whether it is acceptable.  I am personally
> satisfied
> > and feel that there is no need to take this up at a different level. ( My
> > feeling many of you might not share it).
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Kanthi Kannan
> >
> > THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT WALK
> >
> >   "Horns are approved standard equipment in all auto products. All Bosch
> > products comply with the highest environmental standards worldwide.
> > Indiscriminate honking is not a practice Bosch encourages. Nor is it what
> > the Bosch Horns TVC promotes. As much as it does not seek to promote
> > pedestrian indiscipline.
> >
> > The commercial  reflects (and possibly exaggerates) what any driver would
> > encounter on any given day in most busy city streets: a mob in a heated
> > argument in the middle of a narrow road, blocking all traffic, without
> > intending to do so. Clearly the mob before the young lady driver in the
> > commercial do not pay her any heed and a continue to block the road and
> her
> > path. The volatility of the situation in the commercial is what makes the
> > young lady choose to stay in her car and not put herself at any personal
> > risk. Her conspicuous, brightly colored car at a standstill, she waits,
> > hoping they will notice her clear the road, giving her right of way. They
> > don't. She looks helpless. As a last resort she blows her horn. It is
> > certainly not a case of indiscriminate honking."
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
> >
> > ================================================================
> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South').
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
>
> ================================================================
> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South').
>
>
>
>      Keep up with people you care about with Yahoo! India Mail. Learn how.
> http://in.overview.mail.yahoo.com/connectmore
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:06:04 +0800
> From: Sudhir <sudhir at cai-asia.org>
> Subject: [sustran] Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial
> To: Rutul Joshi <joshirutul at yahoo.co.in>
> Cc: sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org
> Message-ID:
>        <ef31aa130911190206n5dea6acdk3d35114cddbfb42 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Dear Rutal
>
> excellent discussions
>
> an eye for an eye would make everybody blind :-)
>
> yes, first we need to look at our own Noise pollution standards.. many
> countries still don't have one yet..... Even in India for mixed landuse we
> don't have anything for them. In India we have them for industrial,
> commercial and residential areas. Latest ambient air quality standards
> propose uniform standards across the city - why different for noise?
>
> people trying to improve accessibility live next to roads - paying huge
> rentals, living in 60-100 db noise and breathing most polluted air.....
>
> SG
>
>
> 2009/11/19 Rutul Joshi <joshirutul at yahoo.co.in>
>
> > I agree with Sunny, Madhav and Sujit.
> > Let me draw your attention to the voice overs when the 'helpless woman'
> is
> > stuck in front of 'the mob(!)'. The voice over says, "I am not afraid of
> > obstacles" and the male voice, " zero compromise horns from Bosch...when
> > there is no compromise, there is no fear!" She blows horn because she is
> not
> > afraid of 'obstacles'! It is an outright pro-honking commercial which
> > aggressively potrays the priority of car-users over the pedestrians. I do
> > not think that anyone can legitimize it by using the 'helpless woman'
> card.
> > What is zero-compromise horns, btw? And what is this portrayal of 'no
> fear,
> > no obstacles' philosophy here?
> >
> > One can also not buy the argument that horns are like all other approved
> > auto products with high environmental standards. Everything fixed on a
> > motorized vehicle may be 'approved' but not necessarily harmless. It is
> > always the thousand horns blowing at a time, which make life miserable in
> > cities.
> >
> > Finally, it is never about one commercial or this commercial per say. but
> > is always about how 'just' are we. We understand that advertisers have to
> > exaggerate things but we also bane cigarette commercials. Personally, I
> > think horn commercials are as contagious, powerful and anti-social as
> > cigarette commercials and they should be banned. There are also double
> > standards here on the company's part. Would they have the same commercial
> in
> > their European market?
> >
> > best,
> > Rutul.
> >
> > PS: As an awareness campaign, I would borrow Madhav's idea. One day, all
> > the pedestrians in the city should move around with horns! Would they
> > out-number the car horns?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Sunny Kodukula <sunny.enie at gmail.com>
> > To: Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan at gmail.com>
> > Cc: sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org
> > Sent: Thu, 19 November, 2009 11:46:39 AM
> > Subject: [sustran] Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial
> >
> > Sorry Kanthi, I am not satisfied and when a pedestrian is treated like a
> > moving "thing" on the street (not even a road) which will make way with
> > sound, this is really sad and also not treating other humans alike,
> > forget the animals that's another story for the blue cross.
> >
> > I like the word pedestrian "indiscipline", if the people walk on roads
> > it is indiscipline and cars go in the middle of two lanes it is
> > perfectly fine. Our cities we try to control the people who cross the
> > roads at grade than trying to control the cars that do not stick to
> > lanes. Anyway, Who is Bosch to decide what pedestrian indiscipline is!
> >
> > The lady in the commercial always had the option to leave her car behind
> > and walk in the "narrow" street. So Bosch is actually supporting people
> > driving cars in narrow streets and also to honk.
> >
> > those were my 2 cents
> >
> > cheers
> > sunny
> >
> >
> > On 19/11/09 11:05 AM, Kanthi Kannan wrote:
> > > Dear all
> > >
> > > Greetings!!
> > >
> > > I have contacted the ad agency and here is what they have to say.
> Please
> > do
> > > go through it and check whether it is acceptable.  I am personally
> > satisfied
> > > and feel that there is no need to take this up at a different level. (
> My
> > > feeling many of you might not share it).
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Kanthi Kannan
> > >
> > > THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT WALK
> > >
> > >   "Horns are approved standard equipment in all auto products. All
> Bosch
> > > products comply with the highest environmental standards worldwide.
> > > Indiscriminate honking is not a practice Bosch encourages. Nor is it
> what
> > > the Bosch Horns TVC promotes. As much as it does not seek to promote
> > > pedestrian indiscipline.
> > >
> > > The commercial  reflects (and possibly exaggerates) what any driver
> would
> > > encounter on any given day in most busy city streets: a mob in a heated
> > > argument in the middle of a narrow road, blocking all traffic, without
> > > intending to do so. Clearly the mob before the young lady driver in the
> > > commercial do not pay her any heed and a continue to block the road and
> > her
> > > path. The volatility of the situation in the commercial is what makes
> the
> > > young lady choose to stay in her car and not put herself at any
> personal
> > > risk. Her conspicuous, brightly colored car at a standstill, she waits,
> > > hoping they will notice her clear the road, giving her right of way.
> They
> > > don't. She looks helpless. As a last resort she blows her horn. It is
> > > certainly not a case of indiscriminate honking."
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> > > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
> > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
> > >
> > > ================================================================
> > > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> > (the 'Global South').
> > >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
> > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
> >
> > ================================================================
> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> > (the 'Global South').
> >
> >
> >
> >       Keep up with people you care about with Yahoo! India Mail. Learn
> how.
> > http://in.overview.mail.yahoo.com/connectmore
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
> > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
> >
> > ================================================================
> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> > (the 'Global South').
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Sudhir Gota
> Transport Specialist
> CAI-Asia Center
> Unit 3510, 35th Floor, Robinsons-Equitable Tower,
> ADB Avenue, Ortigas Center, Pasig City
> Metro Manila, Philippines 1605
> Tel: +63-2-395-2843
> Fax: +63-2-395-2846
> http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia
> Skype : sudhirgota
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:18:52 +0530
> From: Sunny Kodukula <sunny.enie at gmail.com>
> Subject: [sustran] Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial
> To: Sudhir <sudhir at cai-asia.org>
> Cc: sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org
> Message-ID: <4B052294.5010601 at googlemail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> Yes Sudhir you are right about the eye for an eye. Then dont you think
> that these vehicles are moving in the areas where there is a standard.
> Then the next question is will we consider the individual vehicle db for
> standard or the ambient value as you point out for air.
>
> It will surely be a nice idea to remove all the air horns and the fancy
> three step horns which are mounted on most of the two wheelers (and cars
> too) which scare the cyclists off their pedals.
>
> I beg to differ on the last point you mention it is not just people
> living next to road but also people who live in gated residential
> communities. I am a victim of loud noise in a residential area far from
> the main road. This time it is not only the horn but loud music too
> which make my window panes shiver (this is in Delhi).
>
> cheers
> sunny
>
> On 19/11/09 3:36 PM, Sudhir wrote:
> > Dear Rutal
> >
> > excellent discussions
> >
> > an eye for an eye would make everybody blind :-)
> >
> > yes, first we need to look at our own Noise pollution standards.. many
> > countries still don't have one yet..... Even in India for mixed landuse
> we
> > don't have anything for them. In India we have them for industrial,
> > commercial and residential areas. Latest ambient air quality standards
> > propose uniform standards across the city - why different for noise?
> >
> > people trying to improve accessibility live next to roads - paying huge
> > rentals, living in 60-100 db noise and breathing most polluted air.....
> >
> > SG
> >
> >
> > 2009/11/19 Rutul Joshi<joshirutul at yahoo.co.in>
> >
> > >  I agree with Sunny, Madhav and Sujit.
> > >  Let me draw your attention to the voice overs when the 'helpless
> woman' is
> > >  stuck in front of 'the mob(!)'. The voice over says, "I am not afraid
> of
> > >  obstacles" and the male voice, " zero compromise horns from
> Bosch...when
> > >  there is no compromise, there is no fear!" She blows horn because she
> is not
> > >  afraid of 'obstacles'! It is an outright pro-honking commercial which
> > >  aggressively potrays the priority of car-users over the pedestrians. I
> do
> > >  not think that anyone can legitimize it by using the 'helpless woman'
> card.
> > >  What is zero-compromise horns, btw? And what is this portrayal of 'no
> fear,
> > >  no obstacles' philosophy here?
> > >
> > >  One can also not buy the argument that horns are like all other
> approved
> > >  auto products with high environmental standards. Everything fixed on a
> > >  motorized vehicle may be 'approved' but not necessarily harmless. It
> is
> > >  always the thousand horns blowing at a time, which make life miserable
> in
> > >  cities.
> > >
> > >  Finally, it is never about one commercial or this commercial per say.
> but
> > >  is always about how 'just' are we. We understand that advertisers have
> to
> > >  exaggerate things but we also bane cigarette commercials. Personally,
> I
> > >  think horn commercials are as contagious, powerful and anti-social as
> > >  cigarette commercials and they should be banned. There are also double
> > >  standards here on the company's part. Would they have the same
> commercial in
> > >  their European market?
> > >
> > >  best,
> > >  Rutul.
> > >
> > >  PS: As an awareness campaign, I would borrow Madhav's idea. One day,
> all
> > >  the pedestrians in the city should move around with horns! Would they
> > >  out-number the car horns?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  ________________________________
> > >  From: Sunny Kodukula<sunny.enie at gmail.com>
> > >  To: Kanthi Kannan<kanthikannan at gmail.com>
> > >  Cc: sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org
> > >  Sent: Thu, 19 November, 2009 11:46:39 AM
> > >  Subject: [sustran] Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial
> > >
> > >  Sorry Kanthi, I am not satisfied and when a pedestrian is treated like
> a
> > >  moving "thing" on the street (not even a road) which will make way
> with
> > >  sound, this is really sad and also not treating other humans alike,
> > >  forget the animals that's another story for the blue cross.
> > >
> > >  I like the word pedestrian "indiscipline", if the people walk on roads
> > >  it is indiscipline and cars go in the middle of two lanes it is
> > >  perfectly fine. Our cities we try to control the people who cross the
> > >  roads at grade than trying to control the cars that do not stick to
> > >  lanes. Anyway, Who is Bosch to decide what pedestrian indiscipline is!
> > >
> > >  The lady in the commercial always had the option to leave her car
> behind
> > >  and walk in the "narrow" street. So Bosch is actually supporting
> people
> > >  driving cars in narrow streets and also to honk.
> > >
> > >  those were my 2 cents
> > >
> > >  cheers
> > >  sunny
> > >
> > >
> > >  On 19/11/09 11:05 AM, Kanthi Kannan wrote:
> > >  >  Dear all
> > >  >
> > >  >  Greetings!!
> > >  >
> > >  >  I have contacted the ad agency and here is what they have to say.
> Please
> > >  do
> > >  >  go through it and check whether it is acceptable.  I am personally
> > >  satisfied
> > >  >  and feel that there is no need to take this up at a different
> level. ( My
> > >  >  feeling many of you might not share it).
> > >  >
> > >  >  Regards
> > >  >
> > >  >  Kanthi Kannan
> > >  >
> > >  >  THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT WALK
> > >  >
> > >  >    "Horns are approved standard equipment in all auto products. All
> Bosch
> > >  >  products comply with the highest environmental standards worldwide.
> > >  >  Indiscriminate honking is not a practice Bosch encourages. Nor is
> it what
> > >  >  the Bosch Horns TVC promotes. As much as it does not seek to
> promote
> > >  >  pedestrian indiscipline.
> > >  >
> > >  >  The commercial  reflects (and possibly exaggerates) what any driver
> would
> > >  >  encounter on any given day in most busy city streets: a mob in a
> heated
> > >  >  argument in the middle of a narrow road, blocking all traffic,
> without
> > >  >  intending to do so. Clearly the mob before the young lady driver in
> the
> > >  >  commercial do not pay her any heed and a continue to block the road
> and
> > >  her
> > >  >  path. The volatility of the situation in the commercial is what
> makes the
> > >  >  young lady choose to stay in her car and not put herself at any
> personal
> > >  >  risk. Her conspicuous, brightly colored car at a standstill, she
> waits,
> > >  >  hoping they will notice her clear the road, giving her right of
> way. They
> > >  >  don't. She looks helpless. As a last resort she blows her horn. It
> is
> > >  >  certainly not a case of indiscriminate honking."
> > >  >
> > >  >  --------------------------------------------------------
> > >  >  To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> > >  >
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> > >  >
> > >  >  --------------------------------------------------------
> > >  >  If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> > >  http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the
> real
> > >  sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
> > >  >
> > >  >  ================================================================
> > >  >  SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> > >  equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing
> countries
> > >  (the 'Global South').
> > >  >
> > >
> > >  --------------------------------------------------------
> > >  To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> > >  http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> > >
> > >  --------------------------------------------------------
> > >  If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> > >  http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the
> real
> > >  sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
> > >
> > >  ================================================================
> > >  SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> > >  equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing
> countries
> > >  (the 'Global South').
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >        Keep up with people you care about with Yahoo! India Mail. Learn
> how.
> > >  http://in.overview.mail.yahoo.com/connectmore
> > >  --------------------------------------------------------
> > >  To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> > >  http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> > >
> > >  --------------------------------------------------------
> > >  If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> > >  http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the
> real
> > >  sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
> > >
> > >  ================================================================
> > >  SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> > >  equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing
> countries
> > >  (the 'Global South').
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 17:08:26 +0100
> From: "Eric Britton" <eric.britton at ecoplan.org>
> Subject: [sustran] Re: India - Bosch Horn commercial
> To: "'Carlosfelipe Pardo'" <carlosfpardo at gmail.com>,    "'Sujit
>        Patwardhan'" <patwardhan.sujit at gmail.com>
> Cc: 'Sudhir Badami' <sudhirbadami at gmail.com>,
>        sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org
> Message-ID: <039001ca6869$5ee08e30$1ca1aa90$@britton at ecoplan.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
>
> >> We can also flag the video as inappropriate in youtube<<
>
>
>
> No no.  Please don't do that.
>
>
>
> The video is (horribly!) appropriate and we need to have it out there for
> all to see.
>
>
>
> Over at World Streets we are trying to follow up on this, and I personally
> and professionally believe that a combination of humor and perspective will
> go a long way. This is an object lesson in the fundamental contradictions
> that wrack our poor planet, and we should not just erase it as if the
> causes
> were not there.
>
>
>
> What we say in these cases is, give them plenty of rope.  So that they can
> hang themselves.
>
>
>
> Let them continue to speak out. And let us speak out ourselves.
>
>
>
> Kind wishes,
>
>
>
> Eric Britton
>
>
>
> PS. Also and finally, le us not lose sight that a shop like Bosch has
> enormous technology potential in areas which are important for new mobility
> and sustainability. So let's see if we can nudge them in the right
> direction. (More than nudge actually but all that for another day).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 09:21:33 +0100
> From: "Eric Britton" <eric.britton at ecoplan.org>
> Subject: [sustran] Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial
> To: "'Sunny Kodukula'" <sunny.enie at gmail.com>,  "'Kanthi Kannan'"
>        <kanthikannan at gmail.com>
> Cc: sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org
> Message-ID: <016701ca68f1$501a5330$f04ef990$@britton at ecoplan.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="US-ASCII"
>
> >>"Horns are approved standard equipment in all auto products.. . . <<
>
> May I kindly have the exact source of these excellent (read, incredible)
> words? It is the exact attitude that I wish to chart.
>
> We are giving this quite some attention over on World Streets.
>
> Regards,ericbritton
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 09:31:50 +0100
> From: "Eric Britton" <eric.britton at ecoplan.org>
> Subject: [sustran] women who are doing outstanding work
> To: <sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org>
> Message-ID: <017401ca68f2$c3d45f90$4b7d1eb0$@britton at ecoplan.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> We are trying to develop a strong female quorum in support of our work
> program and lobbying effort in support of sharper transport/climate
> actions.
> And a significant part of this has to do with our string of projects on
> sharing in transport, of which if you are interested you can see the draft
> website for the first such project at www.kaohsiung.sharetransport.org.
>
>
>
> So if you are female please get in touch. And if you know women who are
> doing outstanding work in our shared fields of interest, we would be most
> grateful is you would agree to put us in touch with them.
>
>
>
> We need more strong female participation and leadership at all levels.
> (Including in Sustran by the way.)
>
>
>
> Kin thanks.
>
>
>
> Regards.ericbritton
>
>
>
> PS. World Streets on sharing http://tinyurl.com/ws-sharing   -   And on
> female leadership - http://tinyurl.com/ws-women
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>                       The New Mobility Agenda
>
> cid:image001.jpg at 01C8DAF3.F7EBC130
>
>               Technology transforms time and space
>
>                                             . . . and our minds
>
>
>
>  New Mobility Partnerships  - http://www.newmobility.org
> <http://www.newmobility.org/>
>
>       & check out World Streets -- www.Worldstreets.org<http://www.worldstreets.org/>
> <http://www.worldstreets.org/>
>
>      Europe:   8/10 rue Joseph Bara,     75006 Paris,  France
>
>        T:  +331 4326 1323  or  +339 7044 4179   Skype: ericbritton
>
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:46:09 +0100
> From: "Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory" <edelman at greenidea.eu>
> Subject: [sustran] Another car* ad you may have seen,   surprisingly it
>        may be legal
> To: LotsLessCars at yahoogroups.com,       Global 'South' Sustainable
> Transport
>        <sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org>
> Cc: Joachim Bergerhoff <agimjo at gmail.com>, lobjoit at gmail.com
> Message-ID: <4B053E11.8090503 at greenidea.eu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> Hi,
>
> I was looking up advert standards in the UK and realised that this
> Mitsubishi Colt advert shown on Greek TV
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeKtylqoh0s> (Mark Lobjoit posted it on
> the New Mobility Cafe list earlier in the week) would very likely not be
> illegal in the UK because a - It is not reality pictured, but a fantasy
> land and b - the speed limit referred to is "100" but it is not
> explicitly kph or mph.... . (This advert was very expensive so I assume
> it was not done just for many European markets -- the ending text is
> "While Speedville is a fantasy, the Mitsubishi Colt is real". I am
> actually not sure if car* adverts produced for the UK or Ireland are
> used in mainland Europe because of different driving position).
>
> ASA code
>
> "11.9.1 Rules for all advertising
>
> No advertisement may encourage or condone dangerous, inconsiderate or
> irresponsible driving or motorcycling
>
> Note:
>
> This does not prevent flamboyant driving in scenes which are clearly
> fantasy or ?theatrical? so that the action is distanced from reality (eg
> scenes of driving mayhem in trailers for action films).
>
> 11.9.2 Automotive advertising
>
> Advertisements for cars, motorbikes or other automotive products must not:
>
> a) encourage or condone fast or irresponsible driving nor
>
> b) refer to speeds over 70mph nor..."
>
>
> http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/codes/tv_code/tv_codes/Section+11+-+Other+Categories+New.htm
>
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------
>
> Todd Edelman
> Green Idea Factory
>
> Urbanstr. 45
> D-10967 Berlin
> Germany
>
> Skype: toddedelman
> Mobile: ++49 0162 814 4081
>
> edelman at greenidea.eu
> www.greenidea.eu
> www.flickr.com/photos/edelman
>
> CAR* is over. If you want it.
>
> "Fort mit der Privatautostadt und was Neues hingebaut!"
> - B. Brecht (with slight modification)
>
> * "Car" is a sub-category of automobile, i.e. one used inappropriately,
> opportunistically or without creativity
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 04:50:30 -0800 (PST)
> From: Morten Lange <morten7an at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [sustran] First Global Ministerial Conference on Road Safety
>        [was Re:        Road Safety]
> To: Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan at gmail.com>
> Cc: sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org
> Message-ID: <126756.20907.qm at web51004.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Hi
>
> Good idea to keep an eye on that conference, First Global Ministerial
> Conference on Road Safety in Moscow, today and tomorrow 20.november.
>
> The following point on the agenda of the declaration to be singed tomorrow
>  http://www.who.int/roadsafety/ministerial_conference/declaration_en.pdf
> looks promising :
>
> 5. Begin to implement safer and more sustainable transportation, including
> through land-use planning initiatives and by encouraging alternative forms
> of transportation;
>
> Many other are traditional and partly can contribute to cement our current
> patterns.
>
>
> How can we who "have ssen the light" best guide this initiative as it
> gathers strength  to not repeat the mistakes of the north, which the
> ministers seem set to forget :  A grand motorisation of urban and other
> transport and creating of barriers for an active lifestyle, with side
> effects like a worsening public health due to inactivity and pollution,
> inefficient transportation systems,  sprawling cities, increasing patterns
> of buy and throw away etc.
>
> Instead of looking to the rich countries for solutions, I guess there are
> better models being developed in the South.  Curitiba and Bogot? spring to
> mind. Which are other good (or better) beacons ?
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Morten
>
>
> --- On Thu, 19/11/09, Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > From: Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan at gmail.com>
> > Subject: [sustran] Re: Road Safety
> > To: sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org
> > Date: Thursday, 19 November, 2009, 7:18
> >
> > Dear all
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Greetings!!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Any idea as to who is representing India in the First
> > Global Ministerial
> > Conference on Road Safety.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks and Regards
> >
> >
> > Kanthi Kannan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT
> > WALK
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss
> > to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership
> > rights.
> >
> > ================================================================
> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of
> > people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a
> > focus on developing countries (the 'Global South').
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 14:21:53 +0100
> From: "Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory" <edelman at greenidea.eu>
> Subject: [sustran] Re: First Global Ministerial Conference on Road
>        Safety [was     Re:     Road Safety]
> To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport
>        <sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org>
> Message-ID: <4B054671.9070405 at greenidea.eu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> One point out of eleven? It should be the main point. Indeed, as Morten
> points out, the other points cement our current patterns....
>
> See here:
>
> http://www.who.int/roadsafety/ministerial_conference/en/
>
> ... in what I will call (generously) an "Old Mobility +" philosophy,
> which is mainly about consciously doing very little to stop the private
> car* industry from suffering in the slightest. In fact it is the private
> car* industry which stands firmly behind a lot of their programming and
> throws money around, polluting the agenda of otherwise fine sustainable
> mobility organisations.
>
> --- "We will make fewer and fewer private cars*" suggested a more
> controversial participant in the conference as a slogan to come out of
> the conference. Her fellow attendees laughed  hard at her, but then gave
> her a bike helmet and some paint to create some crosswalks in her town ---
>
> - T
>
>
> Morten Lange wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > Good idea to keep an eye on that conference, First Global Ministerial
> Conference on Road Safety in Moscow, today and tomorrow 20.november.
> >
> > The following point on the agenda of the declaration to be singed
> tomorrow
> >
> http://www.who.int/roadsafety/ministerial_conference/declaration_en.pdf
> > looks promising :
> >
> > 5. Begin to implement safer and more sustainable transportation,
> including through land-use planning initiatives and by encouraging
> alternative forms of transportation;
> >
> > Many other are traditional and partly can contribute to cement our
> current patterns.
> >
> >
> > How can we who "have ssen the light" best guide this initiative as it
> gathers strength  to not repeat the mistakes of the north, which the
> ministers seem set to forget :  A grand motorisation of urban and other
> transport and creating of barriers for an active lifestyle, with side
> effects like a worsening public health due to inactivity and pollution,
> inefficient transportation systems,  sprawling cities, increasing patterns
> of buy and throw away etc.
> >
> > Instead of looking to the rich countries for solutions, I guess there are
> better models being developed in the South.  Curitiba and Bogot? spring to
> mind. Which are other good (or better) beacons ?
> >
> >
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > Morten
> >
> >
> > --- On Thu, 19/11/09, Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> From: Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan at gmail.com>
> >> Subject: [sustran] Re: Road Safety
> >> To: sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org
> >> Date: Thursday, 19 November, 2009, 7:18
> >>
> >> Dear all
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Greetings!!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Any idea as to who is representing India in the First
> >> Global Ministerial
> >> Conference on Road Safety.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks and Regards
> >>
> >>
> >> Kanthi Kannan
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT
> >> WALK
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --------------------------------------------------------
> >> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> >> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> >>
> >> --------------------------------------------------------
> >> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss
> >> to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership
> >> rights.
> >>
> >> ================================================================
> >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of
> >> people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a
> >> focus on developing countries (the 'Global South').
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
> >
> > ================================================================
> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South').
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------
>
> Todd Edelman
> Green Idea Factory
>
> Urbanstr. 45
> D-10967 Berlin
> Germany
>
> Skype: toddedelman
> Mobile: ++49 0162 814 4081
>
> edelman at greenidea.eu
> www.greenidea.eu
> www.flickr.com/photos/edelman
>
> CAR* is over. If you want it.
>
> "Fort mit der Privatautostadt und was Neues hingebaut!"
> - B. Brecht (with slight modification)
>
> * "Car" is a sub-category of automobile, i.e. one used inappropriately,
> opportunistically or without creativity
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 22:32:05 +0530
> From: Sujit Patwardhan <patwardhan.sujit at gmail.com>
> Subject: [sustran] Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial
> To: Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan at gmail.com>
> Cc: sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org
> Message-ID:
>        <8fba064c0911190902s6488616bg741f858b6d70e0a8 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> Kanthi,
>
> Can you please forward Email of the Advertising Agency and if possible
> their
> postal address too?
>
> Let's see if they continue to use the same belligerent tone if they are
> hauled up by the Advertising Standards Council of India (ASCI) for
> "inappropriate" advertising.
>
> --
> Sujit
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Dear all
> >
> >
> >
> > Greetings!!
> >
> >
> >
> > I have contacted the ad agency and here is what they have to say. Please
> do
> > go through it and check whether it is acceptable.  I am personally
> > satisfied
> > and feel that there is no need to take this up at a different level. ( My
> > feeling many of you might not share it).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Kanthi Kannan
> >
> >
> >
> > THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT WALK
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  "Horns are approved standard equipment in all auto products. All Bosch
> > products comply with the highest environmental standards worldwide.
> > Indiscriminate honking is not a practice Bosch encourages. Nor is it what
> > the Bosch Horns TVC promotes. As much as it does not seek to promote
> > pedestrian indiscipline.
> >
> > The commercial  reflects (and possibly exaggerates) what any driver would
> > encounter on any given day in most busy city streets: a mob in a heated
> > argument in the middle of a narrow road, blocking all traffic, without
> > intending to do so. Clearly the mob before the young lady driver in the
> > commercial do not pay her any heed and a continue to block the road and
> her
> > path. The volatility of the situation in the commercial is what makes the
> > young lady choose to stay in her car and not put herself at any personal
> > risk. Her conspicuous, brightly colored car at a standstill, she waits,
> > hoping they will notice her clear the road, giving her right of way. They
> > don't. She looks helpless. As a last resort she blows her horn. It is
> > certainly not a case of indiscriminate honking."
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
> > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
> >
> > ================================================================
> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> > (the 'Global South').
> >
>
>
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> ?..each million we invest into urban motorways is an investment
> to destroy the city?
>
> Mayor Hans Joachim Vogel
> Munich 1970
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Sujit Patwardhan
> patwardhan.sujit at gmail.com
> sujitjp at gmail.com
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yamuna, ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007, India
> Tel: +91 20 25537955
> Cell: +91 98220 26627
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Parisar: www.parisar.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:52:09 +0100
> From: "Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory" <edelman at greenidea.eu>
> Subject: [sustran] Re: First Global Ministerial Conference on Road
>        Safety  [was    Re:     Road Safety]
> To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport
>        <sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org>,     sminkeyl at who.int,
> traffic at who.int
> Message-ID: <4B0593D9.3070708 at greenidea.eu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Here are some excerpts from the BBC report about the event...
>
> <http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8366952.stm>
>
> * "Some of the world's poorest countries are to receive a cash injection
> of ?1.5m from the UK government to help improve road safety.[...] The
> funding will pay for pedestrian crossings and better road markings. "
>
> * "Former UK Defence Secretary Lord Robertson, who is chairman of the
> global Make Roads Safe campaign, said the conference must 'signal a
> change of direction'.
>
> '*We know how to make roads safe: better road design and speed
> management; helmets and seatbelts; police enforcement*,' he said.
>
> 'We have the *vaccines* for this epidemic, now we need the political
> will for a decade of action for road safety.'"
>
> Nothing about point 5 from the PDF Morten sent earlier... maybe more
> info will show up in a press release.
>
> ?1.5m represents 1% of a new contract to "...provide weapon sights and
> targeting devices to the U.K. Ministry of Defense"
> <
> http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/archive/2009/September/Pages/UKMilitarySpendingontheRise,SaysMODOfficial.aspx
> >
> and about .00005 % of total UK military spending in 2009/10
> <
> http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/AboutDefence/Organisation/KeyFactsAboutDefence/DefenceSpending.htm
> >
>
> Silliness. The UK representatives who are responsible should be forced
> to crawl home from Moscow. WHO needs to be honest and call this the
> "Keep on Drivin'" campaign.
>
> - T
>
> p.s. The radical who proposed the earlier statement about making less
> cars was also given a reflective vest with a happy face on it.
>
>
>  * *Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory wrote:
> > One point out of eleven? It should be the main point. Indeed, as Morten
> > points out, the other points cement our current patterns....
> >
> > See here:
> >
> > http://www.who.int/roadsafety/ministerial_conference/en/
> >
> > ... in what I will call (generously) an "Old Mobility +" philosophy,
> > which is mainly about consciously doing very little to stop the private
> > car* industry from suffering in the slightest. In fact it is the private
> > car* industry which stands firmly behind a lot of their programming and
> > throws money around, polluting the agenda of otherwise fine sustainable
> > mobility organisations.
> >
> > --- "We will make fewer and fewer private cars*" suggested a more
> > controversial participant in the conference as a slogan to come out of
> > the conference. Her fellow attendees laughed  hard at her, but then gave
> > her a bike helmet and some paint to create some crosswalks in her town
> ---
> >
> > - T
> >
> >
> > Morten Lange wrote:
> >
> >> Hi
> >>
> >> Good idea to keep an eye on that conference, First Global Ministerial
> Conference on Road Safety in Moscow, today and tomorrow 20.november.
> >>
> >> The following point on the agenda of the declaration to be singed
> tomorrow
> >>
> http://www.who.int/roadsafety/ministerial_conference/declaration_en.pdf
> >> looks promising :
> >>
> >> 5. Begin to implement safer and more sustainable transportation,
> including through land-use planning initiatives and by encouraging
> alternative forms of transportation;
> >>
> >> Many other are traditional and partly can contribute to cement our
> current patterns.
> >>
> >>
> >> How can we who "have ssen the light" best guide this initiative as it
> gathers strength  to not repeat the mistakes of the north, which the
> ministers seem set to forget :  A grand motorisation of urban and other
> transport and creating of barriers for an active lifestyle, with side
> effects like a worsening public health due to inactivity and pollution,
> inefficient transportation systems,  sprawling cities, increasing patterns
> of buy and throw away etc.
> >>
> >> Instead of looking to the rich countries for solutions, I guess there
> are better models being developed in the South.  Curitiba and Bogot? spring
> to mind. Which are other good (or better) beacons ?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Best Regards,
> >> Morten
> >>
> >>
> >> --- On Thu, 19/11/09, Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> From: Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan at gmail.com>
> >>> Subject: [sustran] Re: Road Safety
> >>> To: sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org
> >>> Date: Thursday, 19 November, 2009, 7:18
> >>>
> >>> Dear all
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Greetings!!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Any idea as to who is representing India in the First
> >>> Global Ministerial
> >>> Conference on Road Safety.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Thanks and Regards
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Kanthi Kannan
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT
> >>> WALK
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --------------------------------------------------------
> >>> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> >>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> >>>
> >>> --------------------------------------------------------
> >>> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss
> >>> to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership
> >>> rights.
> >>>
> >>> ================================================================
> >>> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of
> >>> people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a
> >>> focus on developing countries (the 'Global South').
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> --------------------------------------------------------
> >> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> >> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> >>
> >> --------------------------------------------------------
> >> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
> >>
> >> ================================================================
> >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South').
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------
>
> Todd Edelman
> Green Idea Factory
>
> Urbanstr. 45
> D-10967 Berlin
> Germany
>
> Skype: toddedelman
> Mobile: ++49 0162 814 4081
>
> edelman at greenidea.eu
> www.greenidea.eu
> www.flickr.com/photos/edelman
>
> CAR* is over. If you want it.
>
> "Fort mit der Privatautostadt und was Neues hingebaut!"
> - B. Brecht (with slight modification)
>
> * "Car" is a sub-category of automobile, i.e. one used inappropriately,
> opportunistically or without creativity
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> ================================================================
> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South').
>
> End of Sustran-discuss Digest, Vol 75, Issue 12
> ***********************************************
>
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