[sustran] Re: Beijing to build "public transport city"
Dr Adhiraj Joglekar
adhiraj.joglekar at googlemail.com
Mon Jun 15 21:12:34 JST 2009
I find the comments from Carlos very interesting. Yes, more investment
needs to happen in public transport but sometimes one has to wonder if
the monies are being put in the right place. For example, the general
push in India is to invest in better buses - but how does one define a
'decent bus'? I grew up using buses in Mumbai, these cost a fifth or
so of Volvo buses that seem to be the craze for now. I never felt the
buses in Mumbai were any inferior in cleanliness or the comfort - they
used to sport cushioned seats with green leather like upholstery.
Having travelled on London buses for past 8 years and being a medic I
can say the Mumbai buses had seats that did more justice to one's
spine than the reclined back rests that are increasingly common.
Coming to the point - the whole idea of spending on a Volvo is
justified by authorities on the basis of a policy called differential
pricing - i.e. posh buses will pull posh people out of their cars and
that they will be happy to spend more on the tickets.
On paper, this may seem logical, but I have yet to see evidence of
people leaving their cars simply because the bus is a Volvo and now
has an aircon in it. If anything the regular loyal bus user shifts to
these buses and pays more or indeed the train users in Mumbai who are
fed of super-ultra-crush loads switch to buses.
I find public transport a great equaliser of sorts, its great to see
someone in a decent suit sitting next to someone who may be struggling
to get food to the table each day. But ethical and moral reasons
apart, one needs to know for sure if people switch to PT only because
it got 'nicer'.
I would be interested in knowing if there is research in this regard
elsewhere which rules out people switching to PT due to confounders
such as simultaneous improvement in route and frequency
rationalisation or TDM measures like congestion charging.
Cheers
Adhiraj
On 6/15/09, sustran-discuss-request at list.jca.apc.org
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Beijing to build "public transport city"
> (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory)
> 2. Re: Beijing to build "public transport city" (Sujit Patwardhan)
> 3. Re: Beijing to build "public transport city" (Carlosfelipe Pardo)
> 4. Re: Beijing to build "public transport city" (Sarath Guttikunda)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 09:42:03 +0200
> From: "Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory" <edelman at greenidea.eu>
> Subject: [sustran] Re: Beijing to build "public transport city"
> To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport
> <sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org>
> Message-ID: <4A34A9CB.3090505 at greenidea.eu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi Sudhir,
>
> Do you mean 20-25% as a goal by 2020?
>
> Prague has about 25% private car modal share and its pretty darn
> horrible. Of course I am not sure how this looks in other much larger
> cities but when so much driving is still possible, it is likely that a
> lot of people will still have private cars which end up sitting around
> most of the time, stored in public space. Stored on streets. A street is
> a public space between buildings, but when used for car storage it is
> simply a parking lot with a bit of natural activity, and with homes on
> the sides. (in addition to businesses and a few other facilities). I
> think we need to start asking ourselves why we want to live next to
> parking lots.
>
> - T
>
> Sudhir wrote:
>> Hi Carlos and others,
>>
>> Good news is instead of one more ring road at least the investment and
>> priority is on public transport.
>>
>> Now, if they keep up the funding on public transport with good
>> investment on non motorized transport and provide incentives, i think
>> its a very good move......
>>
>> The question is how much of private transport share is bearable? i
>> would be happy with 20-25% of private mode share in Asian cities with
>> proportionate investment in 2020.
>>
>> In short if they can freeze the current mode share of private
>> automobiles (20% in 2004) :-)
>>
>> best regards
>> Sudhir
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2009/6/13 Carlosfelipe Pardo <carlosfpardo at gmail.com
>> <mailto:carlosfpardo at gmail.com>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> An interesting question is if they in Beijing expect the future
>> public transport users to come from cars or bicycles... this is
>> seldom answered (or asked) in any of these schemes and remains a
>> problem. In many places I've asked that question and they normally
>> say that future bicycle users will come from public transport, or
>> the opposite. And when they say that bicycle or public transport
>> users will come from cars, they have no idea how this will be
>> achieved.
>>
>> Beijing used to have an extremely high mode share of bicycle use
>> some years ago, and it has now fallen to pieces due to the
>> "promotion" of cars. So is promoting public transport good or bad
>> in this scenario? I mean, will they end up with no one riding
>> bicycles and the rest in cars or buses? Not sure if it's the
>> win-win situation.
>>
>> Carlos.
>>
>> Sudhir wrote:
>>
>>
>> /Beijing has set a target, how about other cities??/
>>
>>
>> see
>>
>> http://www.beijingdaily.com.cn/beijingnews/200906/t20090612_524515.htm
>>
>> Beijing will transform into a "public transport city" by 2015.
>> In peak hours, the minimum departure interval for subway
>> trains will be shortened to 2 minutes; the waiting time at bus
>> stops will be reduced to 3 to 5 minutes; public transport will
>> account for 45 percent of the journeys in downtown areas.
>> "Beijing's implementation plan on humanistic, technological
>> and green transport" (from 2009 to 2015) was recently reviewed
>> and approved by the Standing Committee of CPC Beijing
>> Municipal Committee, unveiling the "public transport city".
>>
>> Beijing will transform into a "public transport city" by 2015.
>>
>> Public transport will account for 45 percent of the journeys
>> in downtown areas
>>
>> According to the plan, from 2009 to 2015, Beijing will
>> construct a new transport system meeting the capital city's
>> needs for development, by implementing four major projects
>> including rail transit network project.
>>
>> By then, the public transport will become remarkably more
>> attractive. Public transport will account for 45 percent of
>> the journeys in downtown areas, while over 50 percent of the
>> journeys will be via public transport during the commuting
>> period. Rail transit will undertake around 50 percent of total
>> passenger traffic of public transport, and the average daily
>> passenger flow by rail transit and bus combined will be over
>> 25 million; building a transport circle of "1-1-2" hours means
>> that the average commuting time within the downtown area will
>> be no more than 1 hour, the travel time from the furthest new
>> towns to the Fifth Ring Road will be no more than 1 hour, and
>> the travel time from Beijing to major cities in the Bohai Bay
>> Rim economic region will be less than 2 hours. The total
>> amount of major pollutants emitted by vehicles will be lower
>> than that in 2008. Read More @
>>
>> http://www.beijingdaily.com.cn/beijingnews/200906/t20090612_524515.htm
>>
>> --
>> Sudhir Gota
>> Transport Specialist
>> CAI-Asia Center
>> Unit 3510, 35th Floor, Robinsons-Equitable Tower,
>> ADB Avenue, Ortigas Center, Pasig City
>> Metro Manila, Philippines 1605
>> Tel: +63-2-395-2843
>> Fax: +63-2-395-2846
>> http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia
>> Skype : sudhirgota
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------- To
>> search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
>>
>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------- If
>> you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
>> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to
>> join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
>>
>> ================================================================
>> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of
>> people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a
>> focus on developing countries (the 'Global South').
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sudhir Gota
>> Transport Specialist
>> CAI-Asia Center
>> Unit 3510, 35th Floor, Robinsons-Equitable Tower,
>> ADB Avenue, Ortigas Center, Pasig City
>> Metro Manila, Philippines 1605
>> Tel: +63-2-395-2843
>> Fax: +63-2-395-2846
>> http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia
>> Skype : sudhirgota
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------
>> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------
>> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
>> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
>> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
>>
>> ================================================================
>> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
>> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
>> (the 'Global South').
>
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------
>
> Todd Edelman
> Green Idea Factory
>
> Urbanstr. 45
> D-10967 Berlin
> Germany
>
> Skype: toddedelman
> Mobile: ++49 0162 814 4081
> Home/Office: ++49 030 7554 0001
>
> edelman at greenidea.eu
> www.greenidea.eu
> www.facebook.com/toddedelman
> www.flickr.com/photos/edelman
>
> CAR is over. If you want it.
>
> "Fort mit der Autostadt und was Neues hingebaut!"
> - B. Brecht (with slight modification)
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 15:24:47 +0530
> From: Sujit Patwardhan <patwardhan.sujit at gmail.com>
> Subject: [sustran] Re: Beijing to build "public transport city"
> To: edelman at greenidea.eu
> Cc: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport
> <sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org>
> Message-ID:
> <8fba064c0906140254g51f4d54fm54cd0e73c34ce76 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> These are the right questions, but finding the right answers will not be
> easy as long as we are unable to convince the decision makers that unless we
> put a stop to the present car-oriented development, our problems will only
> get worse.
> --
> Sujit
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 1:12 PM, Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory
> <edelman at greenidea.eu> wrote:
>
>> Hi Sudhir,
>>
>> Do you mean 20-25% as a goal by 2020?
>>
>> Prague has about 25% private car modal share and its pretty darn horrible.
>> Of course I am not sure how this looks in other much larger cities but
>> when
>> so much driving is still possible, it is likely that a lot of people will
>> still have private cars which end up sitting around most of the time,
>> stored
>> in public space. Stored on streets. A street is a public space between
>> buildings, but when used for car storage it is simply a parking lot with a
>> bit of natural activity, and with homes on the sides. (in addition to
>> businesses and a few other facilities). I think we need to start asking
>> ourselves why we want to live next to parking lots.
>>
>> - T
>>
>> Sudhir wrote:
>>
>> Hi Carlos and others,
>>
>> Good news is instead of one more ring road at least the investment and
>> priority is on public transport.
>>
>> Now, if they keep up the funding on public transport with good investment
>> on non motorized transport and provide incentives, i think its a very good
>> move......
>>
>> The question is how much of private transport share is bearable? i would
>> be
>> happy with 20-25% of private mode share in Asian cities with proportionate
>> investment in 2020.
>>
>> In short if they can freeze the current mode share of private automobiles
>> (20% in 2004) :-)
>>
>> best regards
>> Sudhir
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2009/6/13 Carlosfelipe Pardo <carlosfpardo at gmail.com>
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> An interesting question is if they in Beijing expect the future public
>>> transport users to come from cars or bicycles... this is seldom answered
>>> (or
>>> asked) in any of these schemes and remains a problem. In many places I've
>>> asked that question and they normally say that future bicycle users will
>>> come from public transport, or the opposite. And when they say that
>>> bicycle
>>> or public transport users will come from cars, they have no idea how this
>>> will be achieved.
>>>
>>> Beijing used to have an extremely high mode share of bicycle use some
>>> years ago, and it has now fallen to pieces due to the "promotion" of
>>> cars.
>>> So is promoting public transport good or bad in this scenario? I mean,
>>> will
>>> they end up with no one riding bicycles and the rest in cars or buses?
>>> Not
>>> sure if it's the win-win situation.
>>>
>>> Carlos.
>>>
>>> Sudhir wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> /Beijing has set a target, how about other cities??/
>>>>
>>>> see
>>>> http://www.beijingdaily.com.cn/beijingnews/200906/t20090612_524515.htm
>>>>
>>>> Beijing will transform into a "public transport city" by 2015. In peak
>>>> hours, the minimum departure interval for subway trains will be
>>>> shortened to
>>>> 2 minutes; the waiting time at bus stops will be reduced to 3 to 5
>>>> minutes;
>>>> public transport will account for 45 percent of the journeys in downtown
>>>> areas. "Beijing's implementation plan on humanistic, technological and
>>>> green
>>>> transport" (from 2009 to 2015) was recently reviewed and approved by the
>>>> Standing Committee of CPC Beijing Municipal Committee, unveiling the
>>>> "public
>>>> transport city".
>>>>
>>>> Beijing will transform into a "public transport city" by 2015.
>>>>
>>>> Public transport will account for 45 percent of the journeys in
>>>> downtown
>>>> areas
>>>>
>>>> According to the plan, from 2009 to 2015, Beijing will construct a new
>>>> transport system meeting the capital city's needs for development, by
>>>> implementing four major projects including rail transit network project.
>>>>
>>>> By then, the public transport will become remarkably more attractive.
>>>> Public transport will account for 45 percent of the journeys in downtown
>>>> areas, while over 50 percent of the journeys will be via public
>>>> transport
>>>> during the commuting period. Rail transit will undertake around 50
>>>> percent
>>>> of total passenger traffic of public transport, and the average daily
>>>> passenger flow by rail transit and bus combined will be over 25 million;
>>>> building a transport circle of "1-1-2" hours means that the average
>>>> commuting time within the downtown area will be no more than 1 hour, the
>>>> travel time from the furthest new towns to the Fifth Ring Road will be
>>>> no
>>>> more than 1 hour, and the travel time from Beijing to major cities in
>>>> the
>>>> Bohai Bay Rim economic region will be less than 2 hours. The total
>>>> amount of
>>>> major pollutants emitted by vehicles will be lower than that in 2008.
>>>> Read
>>>> More @
>>>> http://www.beijingdaily.com.cn/beijingnews/200906/t20090612_524515.htm
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Sudhir Gota
>>>> Transport Specialist
>>>> CAI-Asia Center
>>>> Unit 3510, 35th Floor, Robinsons-Equitable Tower,
>>>> ADB Avenue, Ortigas Center, Pasig City
>>>> Metro Manila, Philippines 1605
>>>> Tel: +63-2-395-2843
>>>> Fax: +63-2-395-2846
>>>> http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia
>>>> Skype : sudhirgota
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------- To search the
>>>> archives of sustran-discuss visit
>>>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------- If you get
>>>> sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
>>>> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
>>>> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
>>>>
>>>> ================================================================
>>>> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
>>>> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
>>>> (the 'Global South').
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sudhir Gota
>> Transport Specialist
>> CAI-Asia Center
>> Unit 3510, 35th Floor, Robinsons-Equitable Tower,
>> ADB Avenue, Ortigas Center, Pasig City
>> Metro Manila, Philippines 1605
>> Tel: +63-2-395-2843
>> Fax: +63-2-395-2846
>> http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia
>> Skype : sudhirgota
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------
>> To search the archives of sustran-discuss
>> visithttp://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------
>> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
>> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
>> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
>>
>> ================================================================
>> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
>> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
>> (the 'Global South').
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --------------------------------------------
>>
>> Todd Edelman
>> Green Idea Factory
>>
>> Urbanstr. 45
>> D-10967 Berlin
>> Germany
>>
>> Skype: toddedelman
>> Mobile: ++49 0162 814 4081
>> Home/Office: ++49 030 7554 0001
>> edelman at greenidea.euwww.greenidea.euwww.facebook.com/toddedelmanwww.flickr.com/photos/edelman
>>
>> CAR is over. If you want it.
>>
>> "Fort mit der Autostadt und was Neues hingebaut!"
>> - B. Brecht (with slight modification)
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------
>> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------
>> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
>> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
>> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
>>
>> ================================================================
>> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
>> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
>> (the 'Global South').
>>
>
>
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> ?..each million we invest into urban motorways is an investment
> to destroy the city?
>
> Mayor Hans Joachim Vogel
> Munich 1970
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Sujit Patwardhan
> patwardhan.sujit at gmail.com
> sujitjp at gmail.com
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yamuna, ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007, India
> Tel: +91 20 25537955
> Cell: +91 98220 26627
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Parisar: www.parisar.org
> PTTF: www.pttf.net
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 11:50:46 +0100
> From: Carlosfelipe Pardo <carlosfpardo at gmail.com>
> Subject: [sustran] Re: Beijing to build "public transport city"
> To: Sudhir <sudhir at cai-asia.org>
> Cc: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport
> <sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org>
> Message-ID: <4A34D606.3010806 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Sudhir,
>
> You're right, sorry for the "black hat" You are right that it's much
> better to have more public transport prioritized than ring roads.in my
> position. What I meant is that the policy should include the reversal of
> anti-bicycle measures and even the creation of more pro-bicycle
> measures, and the continuation of car restriction measures (which
> started with the odd-even scheme during the Olympics but I'm not sure if
> any other similar measure has been implemented).
>
> I guess my point is that many measures can be seen as positive, but they
> are only effective when they are part of a broader agenda of sustainable
> urban transport (similar to what Sujit has said).
>
> Best regards,
>
> Carlos.
>
> Sudhir wrote:
>> Hi Carlos and others,
>>
>> Good news is instead of one more ring road at least the investment and
>> priority is on public transport.
>>
>> Now, if they keep up the funding on public transport with good
>> investment on non motorized transport and provide incentives, i think
>> its a very good move......
>>
>> The question is how much of private transport share is bearable? i
>> would be happy with 20-25% of private mode share in Asian cities with
>> proportionate investment in 2020.
>>
>> In short if they can freeze the current mode share of private
>> automobiles (20% in 2004) :-)
>>
>> best regards
>> Sudhir
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2009/6/13 Carlosfelipe Pardo <carlosfpardo at gmail.com
>> <mailto:carlosfpardo at gmail.com>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> An interesting question is if they in Beijing expect the future
>> public transport users to come from cars or bicycles... this is
>> seldom answered (or asked) in any of these schemes and remains a
>> problem. In many places I've asked that question and they normally
>> say that future bicycle users will come from public transport, or
>> the opposite. And when they say that bicycle or public transport
>> users will come from cars, they have no idea how this will be
>> achieved.
>>
>> Beijing used to have an extremely high mode share of bicycle use
>> some years ago, and it has now fallen to pieces due to the
>> "promotion" of cars. So is promoting public transport good or bad
>> in this scenario? I mean, will they end up with no one riding
>> bicycles and the rest in cars or buses? Not sure if it's the
>> win-win situation.
>>
>> Carlos.
>>
>> Sudhir wrote:
>>
>>
>> /Beijing has set a target, how about other cities??/
>>
>>
>> see
>>
>> http://www.beijingdaily.com.cn/beijingnews/200906/t20090612_524515.htm
>>
>> Beijing will transform into a "public transport city" by 2015.
>> In peak hours, the minimum departure interval for subway
>> trains will be shortened to 2 minutes; the waiting time at bus
>> stops will be reduced to 3 to 5 minutes; public transport will
>> account for 45 percent of the journeys in downtown areas.
>> "Beijing's implementation plan on humanistic, technological
>> and green transport" (from 2009 to 2015) was recently reviewed
>> and approved by the Standing Committee of CPC Beijing
>> Municipal Committee, unveiling the "public transport city".
>>
>> Beijing will transform into a "public transport city" by 2015.
>>
>> Public transport will account for 45 percent of the journeys
>> in downtown areas
>>
>> According to the plan, from 2009 to 2015, Beijing will
>> construct a new transport system meeting the capital city's
>> needs for development, by implementing four major projects
>> including rail transit network project.
>>
>> By then, the public transport will become remarkably more
>> attractive. Public transport will account for 45 percent of
>> the journeys in downtown areas, while over 50 percent of the
>> journeys will be via public transport during the commuting
>> period. Rail transit will undertake around 50 percent of total
>> passenger traffic of public transport, and the average daily
>> passenger flow by rail transit and bus combined will be over
>> 25 million; building a transport circle of "1-1-2" hours means
>> that the average commuting time within the downtown area will
>> be no more than 1 hour, the travel time from the furthest new
>> towns to the Fifth Ring Road will be no more than 1 hour, and
>> the travel time from Beijing to major cities in the Bohai Bay
>> Rim economic region will be less than 2 hours. The total
>> amount of major pollutants emitted by vehicles will be lower
>> than that in 2008. Read More @
>>
>> http://www.beijingdaily.com.cn/beijingnews/200906/t20090612_524515.htm
>>
>> --
>> Sudhir Gota
>> Transport Specialist
>> CAI-Asia Center
>> Unit 3510, 35th Floor, Robinsons-Equitable Tower,
>> ADB Avenue, Ortigas Center, Pasig City
>> Metro Manila, Philippines 1605
>> Tel: +63-2-395-2843
>> Fax: +63-2-395-2846
>> http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia
>> Skype : sudhirgota
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------- To
>> search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
>>
>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------- If
>> you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
>> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to
>> join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
>>
>> ================================================================
>> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of
>> people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a
>> focus on developing countries (the 'Global South').
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sudhir Gota
>> Transport Specialist
>> CAI-Asia Center
>> Unit 3510, 35th Floor, Robinsons-Equitable Tower,
>> ADB Avenue, Ortigas Center, Pasig City
>> Metro Manila, Philippines 1605
>> Tel: +63-2-395-2843
>> Fax: +63-2-395-2846
>> http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia
>> Skype : sudhirgota
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 17:28:43 +0530
> From: Sarath Guttikunda <sguttikunda at gmail.com>
> Subject: [sustran] Re: Beijing to build "public transport city"
> To: "Global 'South' Sustainable Transport"
> <sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org>
> Message-ID:
> <683ba1ca0906140458v1e1e82c2o1bca9f4725d88ffa at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> A well written article in *Hindustan Times*, looking at the growing commuter
> problems in Beijing, despite six ring roads and comparisons to Delhi, which
> is building its third ring road and a metro line.
>
> *From Beijing, a lesson for Delhi
> Sunday, June 14th, 2009
> *
> http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=255bf11f-8bcd-41f6-985e-9593ecfa5972
>
> With regards,
> Sarath
>
> --
> Sarath Guttikunda
> New Delhi, India
> Phone: +91 9891 315 946
> Email: sguttikunda at gmail.com
> http://www.urbanemissions.info
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 4:20 PM, Carlosfelipe Pardo
> <carlosfpardo at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Sudhir,
>>
>> You're right, sorry for the "black hat" You are right that it's much
>> better to have more public transport prioritized than ring roads.in my
>> position. What I meant is that the policy should include the reversal of
>> anti-bicycle measures and even the creation of more pro-bicycle
>> measures, and the continuation of car restriction measures (which
>> started with the odd-even scheme during the Olympics but I'm not sure if
>> any other similar measure has been implemented).
>>
>> I guess my point is that many measures can be seen as positive, but they
>> are only effective when they are part of a broader agenda of sustainable
>> urban transport (similar to what Sujit has said).
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Carlos.
>>
>> Sudhir wrote:
>> > Hi Carlos and others,
>> >
>> > Good news is instead of one more ring road at least the investment and
>> > priority is on public transport.
>> >
>> > Now, if they keep up the funding on public transport with good
>> > investment on non motorized transport and provide incentives, i think
>> > its a very good move......
>> >
>> > The question is how much of private transport share is bearable? i
>> > would be happy with 20-25% of private mode share in Asian cities with
>> > proportionate investment in 2020.
>> >
>> > In short if they can freeze the current mode share of private
>> > automobiles (20% in 2004) :-)
>> >
>> > best regards
>> > Sudhir
>>
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> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South').
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