[sustran] Re: Tata Nano: Criminalizing Mobility or Mobilizing Crime

[Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory]

Hi Walter,

Walter Hook wrote:
> I was interviewed by a few reporters on this, and I said I didn't think that
> the low cost of the vehicle was in and of itself a problem.
OK
>   If the vehicle
> is not fully road worthy, crash worthy, or up to minimum tailpipe emission
> standards, those are serious social problems.
YES
>   Other than this, it is great
> if the cost of vehicles goes down.
WHY?
>   However, it will create pressure on the
> governments to charge prices that more accurately reflect the full social
> cost of the use of the vehicle, through coherent parking charges and road
> user charges. 
COULD you explain this, please?

>  Cheap cars do not generate any more congestion than expensive
> ones.  I suppose this was not what they wanted to hear, so maybe it wasn't
> picked up. 
>   
THANKS,
T



> -----Original Message-----
> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org at list.jca.apc.org
> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org at list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf
> Of Lee Schipper
> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 3:21 PM
> To: bruun at seas.upenn.edu; sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org
> Subject: [sustran] Re: Tata Nano: Criminalizing Mobility or Mobilizing Crime
>
>  WE had a discussion of these issues on "On Point" , a US radio show,
> today which you
> Can hear at wbur.org. Email me if you have problems as I know where
> there is an mp3 of the 50 minute broadcast. Anumita Roychowdry of CSE
> and a Professor from MIT were also on the show and there were call ins
> as well.
>
> lee
>
>
> Lee Schipper
> EMBARQ Fellow
> EMBARQ, the WRI Center for Sustainable Transport
> www.embarq.wri.org
> and
> Visiting Scholar
> UC Transportation Center
> Berkeley CA USA www.uctc.net
> skype: mrmeter
> +1 510 642 6889
> Cell +1 202 262 7476
>  
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org at list.jca.apc.org
> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org at list.jca.apc.org] On
> Behalf Of bruun at seas.upenn.edu
> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 12:17 PM
> To: sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org
> Subject: [sustran] Re: Tata Nano: Criminalizing Mobility or Mobilizing
> Crime
>
> Hassaan
>
> The reason people are alarmed is because they can see where this is
> going -- in the wrong direction against sustainable development and
> livable cities. But mostly the discussion in the press has been about
> fuel consumption, greenhouse gasses, and air pollution.
>
> One thing that has been under-reported is the consequences to
> pedestrians and biyclists. Far more are killed than motorists themselves
> in India. An increase in cars will increase the death and maiming to
> them far more than to motorists. But being piles of junk built to a very
> lax safety standard, these TATAs will no doubt be killing a lot of their
> users as well, and bring the ratio up.
>
> This negative impact will only be temporary. One of the things people
> haven't talked about in the press at all, as this is not as well known,
> is the sheer physical impossibility of accommodating so many cars.
> Within a short period of time, all the parking and road space within
> many cities will be used up and traffic will move to slowly to cause
> many serious accidents. Look at Chinese cities already, with only 2.5
> percent auto ownership.
>
> On the other hand, how can this be stopped? You are certainly right that
> the regulatory oversight is not yet in place. But if India's government
> works even remotely like the US government, the auto interests will be
> working behind the scenes to slow this oversight down as much as
> possible. If the rich are allowed to drive around, why can't other
> people? Until some restraints are put on cars in general, it would be
> class warfare to only ban these small cheap cars.
>
> Eric Bruun
>
>
>
>
> Quoting Hassaan Ghazali <hghazali at gmail.com>:
>
>   
>> Friends,
>>
>> There was a time when a Model T rolled off the Ford assembly line 
>> every few seconds. I do believe that was probably the most exciting 
>> and the most positive time for the US economy. Now, it seems Tata's 
>> mobility breakthrough has everyone on the edge and I am surprised to 
>> see so many negative sentiments being expressed within South Asia. I 
>> don't remember so many issues abounding when Daimler-Chrysler's Smart 
>> car came out. Regardless of the fact that the Smart car was probably 
>> one major reason for the eventual divorce between Daimler and 
>> Chrysler, how does the economic and social disparity between the 
>> developed and developing world create the context to despise such an
>>     
> incredible product?
>   
>> Shall we all begin by shunning technology which aims to empower the 
>> masses or shall we encourage its uptake and ensure that the whole 
>> suite of technological constructs (institutions, policies, regulatory 
>> oversight,
>> etc.) are also provided.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Hassaan
>>
>>
>> --
>> Institutional Development Specialist
>> Urban Sector Policy and Management Unit (The Urban Unit) Planning & 
>> Development Department, Government of the Punjab
>>
>> A: 4-B Lytton Road, Lahore, Pakistan
>> T: 9213579-84 (Ext.116)
>> F: 9213585
>> M: 0345 455 6016
>> Skype: halgazel
>> http://hghazali.googlepages.com
>>
>> *When conditions are right, everything will go wrong*
>> --------------------------------------------------------
>> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via
>>     
> YAHOOGROUPS.
>   
>> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss
>>  to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.  
>> The  yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot 
>> post  to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes 
>> it  seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement.
>>
>> ================================================================
>> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,   
>> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing   
>> countries (the 'Global South').
>>
>>
>>     
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via
> YAHOOGROUPS. 
>
> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to
> join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The
> yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to
> the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem
> like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement.
>
> ================================================================
> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South'). 
> -------------------------------------------------------- 
> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via
> YAHOOGROUPS. 
>
> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join
> the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups
> version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real
> sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can).
> Apologies for the confusing arrangement.
>
> ================================================================
> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South'). 
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------- 
> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. 
>
> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement.
>
> ================================================================
> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). 
>
>   


-- 
--------------------------------------------

Todd Edelman
Director
Green Idea Factory

Korunni 72
CZ-10100 Praha 10
Czech Republic

Skype: toddedelman
++420 605 915 970
++420 222 517 832

edelman at greenidea.eu
http://greenideafactory.blogspot.com/
www.flickr.com/photos/edelman

Green Idea Factory is a member of World Carfree Network
www.worldcarfree.net

CAR is over. If you WANT it.