[sustran] Re: Sustran-discuss Digest, Vol 54, Issue 16

Madhav Badami, Prof. madhav.g.badami at mcgill.ca
Mon Feb 18 13:20:49 JST 2008


Dear All,

I do apologize for the persistent problems with the links. I have now reproduced the two articles I referred to -- they are both from The Pioneer, of November 6 and 7 respectively. Amazingly, The Pioneer carries an item even in today's paper, which I discovered only because I was trying to look up the previous two pieces, titled "Why separate lane when cycles banned on BSZ Marg?", which I have also reproduced -- in it, the author quotes a retired engineer of a PSU (Public Sector Unit), who says this about dedicated lanes for NMT: "But by the time these lanes are ready, the people belonging to this strata will own up (sic) if not a Nano, at least a scooter. Instead of being futuristic in planning, they are going back in times". And the article ends with this sentence: "Besides adding to the parking problem, the shrinking of space has led to huge chaos in 'Fleet Street'." They have obviously not heard that the Mayor who runs Fleet Street is planning a system of cycling superhighways -- I suppose the media here would consider that to be prehistoric, not merely "going back in times".

All of this -- in a nation of pedestrians -- makes one want to weep.

Madhav



'Experts' order serial rape of Delhi roads 

A Pioneer Investigation 

Mindless HCBS plan derails traffic, destroys greenery, leaves city gasping 

It is only time ordained "Hindu fatalism" that has prevented a public revolt against a hare-brained road transit project in Delhi that has caused untold misery to commuters along one of the city's principal arterial corridors. For the last 18 months or more, a lunatic plan to introduce the so-called High Capacity Bus System (HCBS) between ISBT in the north and Ambedkar Nagar (Khanpur) on Mehrauli-Badarpur Road in the south, has resulted in incredible mayhem, wanton damage to the environment, insufferable traffic snarls and a sharp rise in road accidents.

But the worst is yet to come. Once this demented project is completed, one of the Capital's best traffic corridors will be in a shambles forever. Already the journey time of 45 minutes from ITO to Khanpur, a distance of 17 km, touches two hours at peak time. This despite the fact that the dedicated bus lanes are incomplete and all traffic currently uses the under-construction bus corridor, separated from the rest of the road by concrete dividers. When the project is finally implemented and the bus corridor becomes out-of-bounds for other vehicles, the congestion on the narrow lanes left for them can only be imagined.

Brainchild of IIT Professor Dinesh Mohan who has never concealed his visceral hatred for private cars and flyovers, besides romanticising pre-liberalisation China's dependence on bicycles as the principal mode of urban transport, HCBS is only at its incipient stage. If such experts have their way, 13 other arterial corridors spanning the entire city shall be subjected to gangrape by greedy contractors with the benign blessings of rootless "experts" and supine babus. Four more have already been finalised although work is yet to begin on those. Although the political leadership is not blameless, it was probably tricked into approving this ludicrous idea mooted by the "experts" in the name of 'aam admi', rather than proactively promoting it.

If you have had to travel from the Moolchand flyover along JB Tito Marg and further to Khanpur down the Dr Ambedkar Marg, any time during the last one-and-a-half years it must have been a harrowing experience. But what about people who live in highly congested residential colonies like Sheikh Sarai, Pushp Vihar, Madangir, Dakshin Puri or the much-maligned Sainik Farms? Here goes a typical example:

You opt to drive along the divider-demarcated single lane after descending from the Moolchand flyover because the narrow strip on the left is already choc-a-bloc with traffic. After negotiating a treacherous path which is barely four feet wide and winds incomprehensively along, taking care to gingerly follow sputtering three-wheeled delivery vans and unruly two-wheelers (for there is no way you can overtake them with such a narrow opening), you confront complete chaos at the Archana crossing. Everybody uses the break from the dividers at this intersection to change lanes, and zig-zag across whatever is left of the once wide tree-lined avenue.

On the perennially crowded Archana to Chirag Delhi flyover, problems multiply. Typically, an auto-rickshaw breaks down on the single lane, a truck on the other side stalls, or a car bangs into another. This is an everyday occurrence, no exaggeration. Since that blocks all traffic behind it on the single lane, you patiently wait for at least an hour for a crane to meander its way and remove the offending vehicle.

Meanwhile, impatient but enterprising people tamper with the dividers (many are already broken) or remove barricades and infiltrate onto the wrong (right-hand) lane. That results in total commotion as oncoming traffic from the other side is forced to stop, causing road rage, exchange of unprintable abuse and sometimes fisticuffs. It's a matter of time before somebody whips out a revolver and shoots; this is just waiting to happen. 

Past Chirag, the confusion is confounded by the massive influx of slow-moving traffic - cycles, thelas, more auto-rickshaws and incredible number of pedestrians. This stretch was always chaotic but now it is unmitigated mayhem. With densely peopled lower middle class colonies flanking the road, cars are always parked on it.

Till a few years ago, most people living in Pushp Vihar, Madangir and Dakshin Puri commuted either by bus or bicycle. Now almost every second household owns a two-wheeler and every third a Maruti 800 or Santro. The colonies' lanes are too narrow for cars to enter, leave alone be parked. So, they occupy nearly half the left hand lane, leaving barely enough space for vehicles to travel in single file at speeds ranging between 5 and 10 kmph. 

Meanwhile, the dedicated bus lane in the middle of the rather wide road has been given pride of place after the road was widened by felling innumerable trees, and relaying the surface with reinforced concrete - a job which has taken more than a year but remains incomplete. With all traffic signals suspended, 'might is right' prevails at intersections, especially the overcrowded Khanpur T-junction on the Mehrauli-Badarpur Road. 


**************************************************

Will somebody wake up to stop this HCBS madness? 

A Pioneer Investigation

Ignoring police, 'experts' impose hawker-friendly middle-of-the-road bus stops, squeeze other traffic

The most disconcerting aspect of the lunatic HCBS idea is the placement of bus stops in the centre of the road in those sections where the bus lanes run down the middle. In accordance with the Dinesh Mohan plan to provide dedicated corridors separated by dividers from the rest of the thoroughfare, they have already put in place a "model" bus stop bang in the middle of Dr Ambedkar Marg near the Madangir T-point.

When the scheme becomes operational, passengers will be required to cross the road on either side to access the bus stop. In the best of times, this stretch is marked by unruly motorists/scooterists and even more unruly pedestrians. Once they are legitimately given the right to scamper across the road, the ensuing chaos can be easily visualised.

Presumably, traffic lights will be installed to allow pedestrians to cross, thus further interrupting the flow of all other traffic at intervals of every km or less. Besides, Delhi pedestrians are not the most law-abiding people in the world; they believe it is their fundamental right to amble across a road anywhere, any time, especially if they spot a bus coming their way. So, we must resign ourselves to complete anarchy along HCBS corridors. 

Such was the pressure of "experts" that the Environment Pollution (Prevention and Control) Authority (EPCA) blissfully ignored the opinion of Delhi Police. EPCA's Report No 24 of July 24, 2006 notes, "The Delhi Traffic Police have some reservations regarding the current design. EPCA received a letter from Qamar Ahmed, Joint Commissioner of Police (dated May 17, 2006) on the need for additional space for private vehicles in the corridor." EPCA, however, decided that given the "significance and urgency" of the project, if difficulties were encountered at the implementation stage, it would call for "design adjustments". 

The inexplicable "urgency" does not stop here. Prof Dinesh Mohan's report self-righteously insists: "Presence of hawkers assists in maintaining a human presence around bus stops and this reduces possibilities of crimes. Bus stands need to be designed to provide facilities for hawkers, vendors and kiosks." All this in the middle of one of the city's most congested thoroughfares! 

With added pomposity, he writes, "Vendors often locate themselves at places that are natural markets for them... If the services provided by them were not required at those locations, they would have no incentive to continue staying there... Street vendors will remain inevitable and necessary. HCBS corridor designs would have to give due consideration to this issue." 

In support of his recipe for chaos, he approvingly endorses Professor Robert
Cervero of the University of California at Berkeley, a votary of guided busways who bases his arguments on the experience of Essen (Germany), Adelaide (Australia), Edmonton (Alberta, Canada), Bellevue (a suburb of Seattle, US), Portland (Oregon, US) and Orange County (California, US). 

Do any of these cities have a population of 14 million? Do they have so many modes of transportation on their roads? Do their residents use roadways in as unruly a manner as residents of Indian cities? If guided busways were truly God's gift to mankind how come cities comparable to Delhi, such as Tokyo, Beijing, Shanghai, Cairo or Mexico City never toyed with the idea? 

The Delhi Government's Committee on Sustainable Transport (bamboozled no doubt by pedal-power fundamentalist Dinesh Mohan), also ensured the construction of separate cycle lanes on Dr Ambedkar Marg. The result is a 2.5 metre elevated concrete track for cycles, 6.6 metre dedicated busway in the centre and just 3 metres on either side of the bus corridor for other vehicular traffic: Just 3 metres! 

One does not have to be a crystal gazer to foresee the consequences of an accident or breakdown on such a narrow lane. The recommendations also include provision of a separate signalling system at intersections to make way for buses hurtling down the dedicated corridors. The rest of the traffic must accept its second-class status. If this is not vehicular apartheid, what is it? 

Once upon a time, there were dedicated cycle lanes along Aurobindo Marg going right up to Rajpath. Over time, cyclists found it inconvenient and spilled over onto the main thoroughfare. No cyclist can be spotted nowadays using even the service lane between Safdarjang flyover and the Prithviraj Road intersection. Moreover, yesterday's cyclists are today's two and four-wheeler owners. With automobile giants planning cars costing around Rs 1 lakh, bicycles are certain to get as outmoded here as they are in the West or today's China. Separate cycle lanes are fine, but where do cyclists go when they need to turn? But who dare argue with the seductive aam admi logic of jholawala "experts"? 

Prodded, regrettably, by a Supreme Court order of January 23, 2004 in response to a PIL by MC Mehta and others, the EPCA pledged acceleration of this scatterbrained "solution" to contain the city's burgeoning vehicle numbers. If there were ever a case of a solution being worse than the malaise, HCBS is a perfect example. 

>From the original recommendation of 14 HCBS corridors, the NCT Government has now narrowed it to five, selecting Nangloi-Shivaji Terminal, Azadpur-Nehru Place, Jahangirpuri-Old Delhi Railway Station and Anand Vihar-Shivaji Terminal in addition to Ambedkar Nagar (Khanpur)-ISBT. Each of the sectors chosen for what can only be termed serial rape is among the most densely populated areas of the city. 

It boggles the mind why the authorities chose to pander to the experts' egos and succumbed to their lobbying. The cost argument peddled by them against Metro rail is utterly specious since it does not take into account the loss of man-hours due to slowing down of traffic, the enhanced fuel costs consequent to this, harassment of commuters and residents, and the wanton damage to the environment with over 1,100 trees mercilessly felled to make way for just one corridor. 

What prevented the authorities from extending the Metro to cater to densely populated colonies beyond Outer Ring Road? The seamless manner in which DMRC constructed the Metro, taking it through the Walled City and Connaught Place proves its mastery at building a world-class transit system with minimum dislocation. Ironically, some of the proposed HCBS routes intend to run parallel to existing Metro corridors. 

In the 80s, when the Calcutta Metro was being built, a churlish, backward-looking Left Front Government declared it would reinstate trams on the surface after underground Metro work was complete. Mercifully, it saw the light eventually, and desisted from implementing the threat. Shouldn't the Delhi Government learn something from this?

*************************************************

Why separate lane when cycles banned on BSZ Marg? 

Neha Attre | New Delhi

The Bus Rapid Transit System (BRTS) has encroached upon the parking space at Bahadur Shah Zafar Marg to make way for cyclists, much to the inconvenience of regular office-goers in the area.

Although the authorities have constructed dedicated Non-Motor Vehicle lane, they chose to overlook the fact that cycles and cycle-rickshaws are banned on that stretch. 

According to Delhi Traffic Police, ITO being one of the busiest intersections in the Capital, cycles and cycle-rickshaws are banned in the area. Still the BRTS is going ahead with construction of a segregated lane for cyclists and rickshaws. 

"This is a perfect case of authorities going insane. On one hand, they have banned the entry of cycles and rickshaws, and on the other, they are creating a dedicated track for them. I am not against cycle-wallahs or rickshaw-wallahs. But by the time these lanes are ready, the people belonging to this strata will own up if not a Nano, at least a scooter. Instead of being futuristic in planning, they are going back in times," said PL Mehta, a retired engineer of a leading PSU. 

To solve the parking crisis and to smoothen the flow of traffic in the area, ITO-Chungi flyover along with multi-layer parking is being planned. 

However, with the Delhi Urban Arts Commission still to give its nod for the proposed flyover, the parking is going to be a big problem. With no alternate space being provided by the Delhi Integrated Multi-Modal Transit System for parking, the office-goers and visitors in the area continue to be at the receiving end.

For the construction of the NMV lane, the authorities have taken over 150 metres of BSZ Marg. This area was used for parking over a hundred vehicles. Besides adding to the parking problem, the shrinking of space has led to huge chaos in 'Fleet Street'.


************************************************************************

"As for the future, your task is not to foresee, but to enable it."
Antoine de Saint-Exupery
 
Madhav G. Badami, PhD
School of Urban Planning and McGill School of Environment
McGill University
Macdonald-Harrington Building
815 Sherbrooke Street West
Montreal, QC, H3A 2K6, Canada
 
Phone: 514-398-3183 (Work); 514-486-2370 (Home)
Fax: 514-398-8376; 514-398-1643
URLs: www.mcgill.ca/urbanplanning
www.mcgill.ca/mse
e-mail: madhav.badami at mcgill.ca




-----Original Message-----
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Sent: Sun 2/17/2008 10:01 PM
To: sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org
Subject: Sustran-discuss Digest, Vol 54, Issue 16
 
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Today's Topics:

   1. Sustainable transport and the media in India ...
      (Madhav Badami, Prof.)
   2. Re: Sustainable transport and the media in India ...
      (Madhav Badami, Prof.)
   3. Re: Sustainable transport and the media in India ...
      (Sujit Patwardhan)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 10:57:47 -0500
From: "Madhav Badami, Prof." <madhav.g.badami at mcgill.ca>
Subject: [sustran] Sustainable transport and the media in India ...
To: "Sustran Resource Centre" <sustran-discuss at jca.apc.org>
Cc: NewMobilityCafe at yahoogroups.com, shovan1209 at yahoo.com,
	gerardn at rhd.gov.bd
Message-ID:
	<45AEE06A4800AF4FAD8BEF09C433D85F06325684 at EXCHANGE2VS2.campus.mcgill.ca>
	
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

Greetings all,

I thank Yasmin Chowdhury for her ?Pricing public transit:  learning from Bangkok?, and Saiful Alam (and Eric Britton) for posting it. Yasmin?s piece, and Lee?s response to it, reminded me of the attack that some newspapers in Delhi (chiefly The Pioneer and the Times of India) launched over several days on the High Capacity Bus System (HCBS), the BRT system being currently implemented there. The items in these newspapers not only criticized the implementation of the system, and its appropriateness for Delhi, but the very concept of BRT, besides personally attacking Dinesh Mohan of IIT Delhi, who, along with his colleague Geetam Tiwari, proposed and conceptualized it.

Two of the items, titled ?Experts Order Serial Rape of Delhi Roads: Mindless HCBS plan derails traffic, destroys greenery, leaves city gasping? and ?Will somebody wake up to stop this HCBS madness??, both of which appeared as ?investigation? pieces in The Pioneer on November 6 and 7, may be accessed at:

http://www.dailypioneer.com/archives2/default12.asp?main_variable=front%5Fpage&file_name=story5%2Etxt&counter_img=5&phy_path_it=E%3A%5Cdailypioneer%5Carchives2%5Cnov607
 
http://www.dailypioneer.com/archives2/default12.asp?main_variable=front%5Fpage&file_name=story6%2Etxt&counter_img=6&phy_path_it=E%3A%5Cdailypioneer%5Carchives2%5Cnov707

The Times of India, a leading English language national daily effectively made the same claims as in the above items, in several pieces, including one titled ?Buses Hog Space, Cars Squeezed Out? on November 16.

Feeling compelled to respond to these items (whose titles betray their general tone and content), I wrote an article in which I attempted to rebut them point by point, and sent it off to The Hindu, another leading English language national daily. My article was not published as it was originally written, because it was felt by the editor to be ?polemical?, and too long. But he did publish (on December 5) a considerably condensed version in which I removed specific references to the pieces in the Times of India and the Pioneer. 

In the end, I was thankful for his decision, because, although it denied me the opportunity to directly confront various specific claims made in the pieces (such as, for example, that the decision to implement BRT was sold by a cabal of experts to decision makers who accepted it in a hurry ? actually, it was approved after having been debated and scrutinized at length in various official committees since the mid-1990s), it resulted in what I believe is a more carefully argued and tightly focused article, which may be accessed at:

http://www.hindu.com/2007/12/05/stories/2007120553611000.htm

Apart from arguing that BRT systems have the potential, when properly designed and implemented, to be low cost mass transit solutions that are appropriate for rapidly motorizing, low-income country cities, I placed the issue of BRT (and more generally, mass transit) in a larger context, by making the case that policies to appropriately price and curb personal motor vehicle use, and provide accessibility for pedestrians and cyclists, are important for enhancing the effectiveness of mass transit, allowing all modes (including cars and other personal motor vehicles) to operate more efficiently, mitigating rapidly worsening urban transport impacts, and promoting social justice on our roads.

My purpose is not only to share my article (to which I welcome your critical comments) but also to demonstrate what we are up against in confronting the elite interests represented and served by the mainstream media (with their pro-car, highway, flyovers, and metro, and anti-pedestrian, NMT and bus transit prejudices), and arguing for more environmentally sustainable and socially equitable alternatives. It is little wonder that the Tata Nano has been largely applauded in the same media as the greatest thing since sliced bread (or, if you wish, masala dosa) ? including, as I recall, for the rural masses of this country, who ostensibly have no unmet needs other than a 1-1.5 lakh rupee car.

Cheers,

Madhav

************************************************************************

"As for the future, your task is not to foresee, but to enable it."
Antoine de Saint-Exupery
 
Madhav G. Badami, PhD
School of Urban Planning and McGill School of Environment
McGill University
Macdonald-Harrington Building
815 Sherbrooke Street West
Montreal, QC, H3A 2K6, Canada
 
Phone: 514-398-3183 (Work); 514-486-2370 (Home)
Fax: 514-398-8376; 514-398-1643
URLs: www.mcgill.ca/urbanplanning
www.mcgill.ca/mse
e-mail: madhav.badami at mcgill.ca




-----Original Message-----
From: sustran-discuss-bounces+madhav.g.badami=mcgill.ca at list.jca.apc.org on behalf of Carlosfelipe Pardo
Sent: Thu 2/14/2008 12:11 PM
To: Lee Schipper
Cc: NewMobilityCafe at yahoogroups.com; shovan1209 at yahoo.com; Sustran Resource Centre; gerardn at rhd.gov.bd
Subject: [sustran] Re: Pricing public transit:  learning from Bangkok
 

 From living in Bangkok in 2005, I would say the best mode of transport 
(not the cleanest, but the best) are the motorboats on the canals. If 
Bangkok would "unearth" the rivers it has underground and developed a 
real water-based transport system, it may be less expensive and more 
efficient than many others.

Incidentally, the river boats have similar routes to the Skytrain (on 
the klong behind Sukkumvit at least), at 8 baht (20 us cent) for along 
ride and 4 Baht (10 US cent) for a short ride (Bangkokians may confirm).

And yes, the BTS is for tourists and visitors.

Best regards,

Carlosfelipe Pardo
Coordinador de Proyecto- Project Coordinator
GTZ - Proyecto de Transporte Sostenible (SUTP, SUTP-LAC)
Cl 93A # 14-17 of 708
Bogot? D.C., Colombia
Tel/fax:  +57 (1) 236 2309  Mobile: +57 (3) 15 296 0662
carlos.pardo at gtz.de        www.gtz.de
(carlos.pardo at sutp.org   www.sutp.org )



Lee Schipper wrote:
> My daughter lives near the Skytrain, which makes her apartment very
> accessible.. but others laughed and said "the Skytrain is for tourists
> and students". Whatever, it works for journeys along the corridor. Her
> building sends a shuttle, actually a small golf cart, to pick up
> visitors and residents for the last 750 meters.
>
> When moving there from a nearby hotel ona Saturday afternoon with
> baggage I made a mistake and took a cab. Took 50 minutes because of
> horrible traffic and one way streets. Skytrain would have taken 10 mins
> walk plus 4 minute ride. But I would have had to haul my bags up three
> stories of stairs because the sky train stop near my hotel did not have
> a lift or escalator, at least not one I could find.
>
> As for the metro, I'm told Thais do not like to ride underground, pure
> and simple.
>
> The real issue is in Yasmin's cost figures --- How much money would it
> cost to put in enough Skytrain and other rail lines to blanket the city?
> And what good would it do without real restraints on individual vehicle
> use -- widescale congestion pricing etc.
>
> Lee Schipper
> EMBARQ Fellow
> EMBARQ the WRI Center for  Sustainable Transport
> www.embarq.wri.org
>
> and
>
> Visiting Scholar,
> Univ of Calif Transport Center
> Berkeley CA
> www.uctc.net
> skype: mrmeter
> 510 642 6889
> 202 262 7476
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org at list.jca.apc.org
> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org at list.jca.apc.org] On
> Behalf Of eric.britton
> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 8:08 AM
> To: Sustran Resource Centre; NewMobilityCafe at yahoogroups.com
> Cc: shovan1209 at yahoo.com; gerardn at rhd.gov.bd
> Subject: [sustran] Pricing public transit: learning from Bangkok
>
> From: Saiful Alam [mailto:shovan1209 at yahoo.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, 14 February 2008 15:03
>
>
>
>  
>
> Pricing public transit:  learning from Bangkok
>
> Yasmin Chowdhury
>
> When I first visited Bangkok in 1994, I got around the city mostly by
> bus.
> The buses were slow, the streets congested, and I soon learned that I
> could
> only make one plan for the morning and one for the afternoon, as it
> might
> take a couple hours to move about.
>
> Then the city started to build their skytrain.  I waited with great
> anticipation for its completion.  It seemed to require a lot more time
> and a
> lot more money (OK, just two years of delay and three times over budget)
> than originally anticipated, and the fares are admittedly quite high,
> but it
> was finally built-if never finished.  (I saw an article in a Thai
> newspaper
> about people very upset that the planned line to their area had never
> been
> built; meanwhile, the pilings leading to the now domestic-only airport
> have
> been converted into advertising posts.)
>
> To be quite honest, I love the skytrain.  Sure, the cement structure
> looming
> overhead is ugly.  Sure, most of the stations lack escalators, making
> them
> inaccessible to those in wheelchairs, and exceedingly difficult for
> those
> lugging heavy bags or luggage.  Sure, the two lines only cover a very
> limited portion of Bangkok.  Sure, it's expensive.  Sure, despite all
> the
> hassles, the trains are often packed.  Sure, the stations are congested
> and
> I sometimes have to push through people to reach my train.  But at least
> I
> can see a little of the city while I travel, and I can now get around to
> the
> stops on the line quickly, allowing myself to visit far more places in a
> day.
>
> Though the skytrain certainly makes moving around the city much easier
> (if
> you can afford it), it obviously didn't alleviate the congestion, as the
> government then opened a very limited subway system.  The first time I
> tried
> to ride it, about a year after it opened, it was closed for two weeks
> due to
> an accident.  I finally rode it a couple years after that, and
> discovered
> that it cost about US$0.50 to ride what it would take me ten minutes to
> walk.  That seemed outrageous, and I don't love riding up and down long
> escalators and traveling in tunnels.  Since the Metro doesn't seem to go
> much beyond the skytrain, I stick to the skytrain.
>
> But now, after spending billions of dollars on those mass transit
> systems,
> and despite having an existing extensive bus system, and more roads than
> most Asian cities of their level of economic development, the government
> is
> now planning bus rapid transit-a bit like a street-level trolley, but
> with
> buses instead of trams.  Of course, that too is delayed-but the cost is
> a
> fraction of that for the skytrain and Metro.
>
> A more careful look at those costs reveals something interesting and of
> considerable relevance as Dhaka plans its public transit system.
> According
> to various Web sites, the skytrain, which opened in 1999, cost about
> US$1.5
> billion for 24 kilometers.  That amounts to US$62.5 million per
> kilometer.
> Of course, things were cheaper back then.  
>
> Construction of the Metro began back in 1996, but it wasn't finished
> until
> 2004.  According to Wikipedia, "The project suffered multiple delays not
> only because of the 1997 economic crisis, but also due to challenging
> civil
> engineering works of constructing massive underground structures deep in
> the
> water-logged soil upon which the city is built."  Interesting.
> Fortunately
> we don't have those troubles in Dhaka (ahem!).
>
> As for cost, the Metro cost a mere US$ 2.75 billion for 21 km, or
> US$130.95
> million per kilometer-just over twice that of the skytrain.  Apparently
> burrowing underground, dealing with flooding issues, providing
> ventilation,
> and so on is much more expensive than building above our heads.
> Meanwhile,
> again quoting Wikipedia, "ridership has settled down to around 180,000
> riders daily - considerably lower than projections of over 400,000,
> despite
> fares being slashed in half from 12-38 baht to 10-15 baht per trip. As
> of
> 2006, fares range between 14-36 baht per trip."  With an exchange rate
> as I
> write of 32 baht to one US dollar, that's a mighty high fare.  Good
> thing
> Bangladeshis are wealthier than Thais (??).
>
> Meanwhile, the anticipated cost for the BRT is 33.4 million for 36
> kilometers.  Admittedly, anticipated costs are often far less than
> actual
> costs, but still, at US$0.93 million per kilometer, that's a bargain
> compared to the Metro or the skytrain-even more so when considering it's
> being built last, when prices are highest.  At 67 times less than the
> skytrain and 141 times less than the Metro, even with significant cost
> increases, it will still be far more affordable than its public transit
> predecessors.
>
> Of course, operational costs are another issue.  Buses require fuel,
> trains
> electricity.  Buses tend to require more maintenance, tires wear down
> frequently, and buses have to be replaced far more often than trains.
> While
> it is cheaper to build a BRT system initially, the higher operational
> costs
> might mean that, in the long term, a tram system would be more
> affordable-tram meaning street-level light rail, not something up in the
> sky
> or underground, which greatly multiplies the costs.
>
> Which is all to say, I'm all for public transit.  So, apparently, are
> Thais:
> last I checked, hotels and housing advertise their proximity to the
> various
> public transit options.  Apparently people are sick and tired of sitting
> in
> cars stuck in traffic jams.  In public transit, you can sit back and
> read a
> book while you ride, look out the window (preferably not at tunnels),
> eavesdrop on your neighbor's conversation, and otherwise amuse yourself
> without risking crashing into someone once the traffic moves again.
>
> But when considering spending millions or billions on public transit, it
> would make sense to invest it wisely, in a system that will be the most
> extensive and least expensive, and thus offer the best value for the
> money.
> At 141 times per kilometer less to build BRT than Metro, we could both
> have
> a far more extensive system, meeting far more people's needs, and lower
> fares.  Sounds like a bargain to me!
>
>  
>
>
>
> Syed Siful Alam Shovan 
> shovan1209 at yahoo.com 
>
>   
>
> -------------------------------------------------------- 
> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via
> YAHOOGROUPS. 
>
> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to
> join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The
> yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to
> the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem
> like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement.
>
> ================================================================
> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South'). 
> -------------------------------------------------------- 
> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. 
>
> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement.
>
> ================================================================
> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). 
>
>   
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IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. 

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SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). 






------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 12:37:32 -0500
From: "Madhav Badami, Prof." <madhav.g.badami at mcgill.ca>
Subject: [sustran] Re: Sustainable transport and the media in India
	...
To: "Sustran Resource Centre" <sustran-discuss at jca.apc.org>
Message-ID:
	<45AEE06A4800AF4FAD8BEF09C433D85F06325688 at EXCHANGE2VS2.campus.mcgill.ca>
	
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

Hello all, again,

Our friend Sujit Patwardhan from Pune pointed out that the links that I provided to the Pioneer articles don't work ... please try the ones below (the links I provided earlier worked a week or so ago!).

http://www.dailypioneer.com/archives2/default12.asp?main_variable=front%5Fpage&file_name=story5%2Etxt&counter_img=5&phy_path_it=E%3A%5Cdailypioneer%5Carchives2%5Cnov607

http://www.dailypioneer.com/archives2/default12.asp?main_variable=front%5Fpage&file_name=story6%2Etxt&counter_img=6&phy_path_it=E%3A%5Cdailypioneer%5Carchives2%5Cnov707

A minor correction to the sentence "The items in these newspapers not only criticized the implementation of the system, and its appropriateness for Delhi, but the very concept of BRT, besides personally attacking Dinesh Mohan of IIT Delhi, who, along with his colleague Geetam Tiwari, proposed and conceptualized it." in the first paragraph of my posting; it should read: "The items in these newspapers not only criticized the implementation of the system, and its appropriateness for Delhi, but the very concept of BRT. Besides, the Pioneer pieces personally attacked Dinesh Mohan of IIT Delhi, who, along with his colleague Geetam Tiwari, proposed and conceptualized it."

Cheers,

Madhav




-----Original Message-----
From: sustran-discuss-bounces+madhav.g.badami=mcgill.ca at list.jca.apc.org on behalf of Madhav Badami, Prof.
Sent: Sun 2/17/2008 10:57 AM
To: Sustran Resource Centre
Cc: NewMobilityCafe at yahoogroups.com; shovan1209 at yahoo.com; gerardn at rhd.gov.bd
Subject: [sustran] Sustainable transport and the media in India ...
 
Greetings all,

I thank Yasmin Chowdhury for her "Pricing public transit:  learning from Bangkok", and Saiful Alam (and Eric Britton) for posting it. Yasmin's piece, and Lee's response to it, reminded me of the attack that some newspapers in Delhi (chiefly The Pioneer and the Times of India) launched over several days on the High Capacity Bus System (HCBS), the BRT system being currently implemented there. The items in these newspapers not only criticized the implementation of the system, and its appropriateness for Delhi, but the very concept of BRT, besides personally attacking Dinesh Mohan of IIT Delhi, who, along with his colleague Geetam Tiwari, proposed and conceptualized it.

Two of the items, titled "Experts Order Serial Rape of Delhi Roads: Mindless HCBS plan derails traffic, destroys greenery, leaves city gasping" and "Will somebody wake up to stop this HCBS madness?", both of which appeared as "investigation" pieces in The Pioneer on November 6 and 7, may be accessed at:

http://www.dailypioneer.com/archives2/default12.asp?main_variable=front%5Fpage&file_name=story5%2Etxt&counter_img=5&phy_path_it=E%3A%5Cdailypioneer%5Carchives2%5Cnov607
 
http://www.dailypioneer.com/archives2/default12.asp?main_variable=front%5Fpage&file_name=story6%2Etxt&counter_img=6&phy_path_it=E%3A%5Cdailypioneer%5Carchives2%5Cnov707

The Times of India, a leading English language national daily effectively made the same claims as in the above items, in several pieces, including one titled "Buses Hog Space, Cars Squeezed Out" on November 16.

Feeling compelled to respond to these items (whose titles betray their general tone and content), I wrote an article in which I attempted to rebut them point by point, and sent it off to The Hindu, another leading English language national daily. My article was not published as it was originally written, because it was felt by the editor to be "polemical", and too long. But he did publish (on December 5) a considerably condensed version in which I removed specific references to the pieces in the Times of India and the Pioneer. 

In the end, I was thankful for his decision, because, although it denied me the opportunity to directly confront various specific claims made in the pieces (such as, for example, that the decision to implement BRT was sold by a cabal of experts to decision makers who accepted it in a hurry - actually, it was approved after having been debated and scrutinized at length in various official committees since the mid-1990s), it resulted in what I believe is a more carefully argued and tightly focused article, which may be accessed at:

http://www.hindu.com/2007/12/05/stories/2007120553611000.htm

Apart from arguing that BRT systems have the potential, when properly designed and implemented, to be low cost mass transit solutions that are appropriate for rapidly motorizing, low-income country cities, I placed the issue of BRT (and more generally, mass transit) in a larger context, by making the case that policies to appropriately price and curb personal motor vehicle use, and provide accessibility for pedestrians and cyclists, are important for enhancing the effectiveness of mass transit, allowing all modes (including cars and other personal motor vehicles) to operate more efficiently, mitigating rapidly worsening urban transport impacts, and promoting social justice on our roads.

My purpose is not only to share my article (to which I welcome your critical comments) but also to demonstrate what we are up against in confronting the elite interests represented and served by the mainstream media (with their pro-car, highway, flyovers, and metro, and anti-pedestrian, NMT and bus transit prejudices), and arguing for more environmentally sustainable and socially equitable alternatives. It is little wonder that the Tata Nano has been largely applauded in the same media as the greatest thing since sliced bread (or, if you wish, masala dosa) - including, as I recall, for the rural masses of this country, who ostensibly have no unmet needs other than a 1-1.5 lakh rupee car.

Cheers,

Madhav

************************************************************************

"As for the future, your task is not to foresee, but to enable it."
Antoine de Saint-Exupery
 
Madhav G. Badami, PhD
School of Urban Planning and McGill School of Environment
McGill University
Macdonald-Harrington Building
815 Sherbrooke Street West
Montreal, QC, H3A 2K6, Canada
 
Phone: 514-398-3183 (Work); 514-486-2370 (Home)
Fax: 514-398-8376; 514-398-1643
URLs: www.mcgill.ca/urbanplanning
www.mcgill.ca/mse
e-mail: madhav.badami at mcgill.ca




-----Original Message-----
From: sustran-discuss-bounces+madhav.g.badami=mcgill.ca at list.jca.apc.org on behalf of Carlosfelipe Pardo
Sent: Thu 2/14/2008 12:11 PM
To: Lee Schipper
Cc: NewMobilityCafe at yahoogroups.com; shovan1209 at yahoo.com; Sustran Resource Centre; gerardn at rhd.gov.bd
Subject: [sustran] Re: Pricing public transit:  learning from Bangkok
 

 From living in Bangkok in 2005, I would say the best mode of transport 
(not the cleanest, but the best) are the motorboats on the canals. If 
Bangkok would "unearth" the rivers it has underground and developed a 
real water-based transport system, it may be less expensive and more 
efficient than many others.

Incidentally, the river boats have similar routes to the Skytrain (on 
the klong behind Sukkumvit at least), at 8 baht (20 us cent) for along 
ride and 4 Baht (10 US cent) for a short ride (Bangkokians may confirm).

And yes, the BTS is for tourists and visitors.

Best regards,

Carlosfelipe Pardo
Coordinador de Proyecto- Project Coordinator
GTZ - Proyecto de Transporte Sostenible (SUTP, SUTP-LAC)
Cl 93A # 14-17 of 708
Bogot? D.C., Colombia
Tel/fax:  +57 (1) 236 2309  Mobile: +57 (3) 15 296 0662
carlos.pardo at gtz.de        www.gtz.de
(carlos.pardo at sutp.org   www.sutp.org )



Lee Schipper wrote:
> My daughter lives near the Skytrain, which makes her apartment very
> accessible.. but others laughed and said "the Skytrain is for tourists
> and students". Whatever, it works for journeys along the corridor. Her
> building sends a shuttle, actually a small golf cart, to pick up
> visitors and residents for the last 750 meters.
>
> When moving there from a nearby hotel ona Saturday afternoon with
> baggage I made a mistake and took a cab. Took 50 minutes because of
> horrible traffic and one way streets. Skytrain would have taken 10 mins
> walk plus 4 minute ride. But I would have had to haul my bags up three
> stories of stairs because the sky train stop near my hotel did not have
> a lift or escalator, at least not one I could find.
>
> As for the metro, I'm told Thais do not like to ride underground, pure
> and simple.
>
> The real issue is in Yasmin's cost figures --- How much money would it
> cost to put in enough Skytrain and other rail lines to blanket the city?
> And what good would it do without real restraints on individual vehicle
> use -- widescale congestion pricing etc.
>
> Lee Schipper
> EMBARQ Fellow
> EMBARQ the WRI Center for  Sustainable Transport
> www.embarq.wri.org
>
> and
>
> Visiting Scholar,
> Univ of Calif Transport Center
> Berkeley CA
> www.uctc.net
> skype: mrmeter
> 510 642 6889
> 202 262 7476
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org at list.jca.apc.org
> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org at list.jca.apc.org] On
> Behalf Of eric.britton
> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 8:08 AM
> To: Sustran Resource Centre; NewMobilityCafe at yahoogroups.com
> Cc: shovan1209 at yahoo.com; gerardn at rhd.gov.bd
> Subject: [sustran] Pricing public transit: learning from Bangkok
>
> From: Saiful Alam [mailto:shovan1209 at yahoo.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, 14 February 2008 15:03
>
>
>
>  
>
> Pricing public transit:  learning from Bangkok
>
> Yasmin Chowdhury
>
> When I first visited Bangkok in 1994, I got around the city mostly by
> bus.
> The buses were slow, the streets congested, and I soon learned that I
> could
> only make one plan for the morning and one for the afternoon, as it
> might
> take a couple hours to move about.
>
> Then the city started to build their skytrain.  I waited with great
> anticipation for its completion.  It seemed to require a lot more time
> and a
> lot more money (OK, just two years of delay and three times over budget)
> than originally anticipated, and the fares are admittedly quite high,
> but it
> was finally built-if never finished.  (I saw an article in a Thai
> newspaper
> about people very upset that the planned line to their area had never
> been
> built; meanwhile, the pilings leading to the now domestic-only airport
> have
> been converted into advertising posts.)
>
> To be quite honest, I love the skytrain.  Sure, the cement structure
> looming
> overhead is ugly.  Sure, most of the stations lack escalators, making
> them
> inaccessible to those in wheelchairs, and exceedingly difficult for
> those
> lugging heavy bags or luggage.  Sure, the two lines only cover a very
> limited portion of Bangkok.  Sure, it's expensive.  Sure, despite all
> the
> hassles, the trains are often packed.  Sure, the stations are congested
> and
> I sometimes have to push through people to reach my train.  But at least
> I
> can see a little of the city while I travel, and I can now get around to
> the
> stops on the line quickly, allowing myself to visit far more places in a
> day.
>
> Though the skytrain certainly makes moving around the city much easier
> (if
> you can afford it), it obviously didn't alleviate the congestion, as the
> government then opened a very limited subway system.  The first time I
> tried
> to ride it, about a year after it opened, it was closed for two weeks
> due to
> an accident.  I finally rode it a couple years after that, and
> discovered
> that it cost about US$0.50 to ride what it would take me ten minutes to
> walk.  That seemed outrageous, and I don't love riding up and down long
> escalators and traveling in tunnels.  Since the Metro doesn't seem to go
> much beyond the skytrain, I stick to the skytrain.
>
> But now, after spending billions of dollars on those mass transit
> systems,
> and despite having an existing extensive bus system, and more roads than
> most Asian cities of their level of economic development, the government
> is
> now planning bus rapid transit-a bit like a street-level trolley, but
> with
> buses instead of trams.  Of course, that too is delayed-but the cost is
> a
> fraction of that for the skytrain and Metro.
>
> A more careful look at those costs reveals something interesting and of
> considerable relevance as Dhaka plans its public transit system.
> According
> to various Web sites, the skytrain, which opened in 1999, cost about
> US$1.5
> billion for 24 kilometers.  That amounts to US$62.5 million per
> kilometer.
> Of course, things were cheaper back then.  
>
> Construction of the Metro began back in 1996, but it wasn't finished
> until
> 2004.  According to Wikipedia, "The project suffered multiple delays not
> only because of the 1997 economic crisis, but also due to challenging
> civil
> engineering works of constructing massive underground structures deep in
> the
> water-logged soil upon which the city is built."  Interesting.
> Fortunately
> we don't have those troubles in Dhaka (ahem!).
>
> As for cost, the Metro cost a mere US$ 2.75 billion for 21 km, or
> US$130.95
> million per kilometer-just over twice that of the skytrain.  Apparently
> burrowing underground, dealing with flooding issues, providing
> ventilation,
> and so on is much more expensive than building above our heads.
> Meanwhile,
> again quoting Wikipedia, "ridership has settled down to around 180,000
> riders daily - considerably lower than projections of over 400,000,
> despite
> fares being slashed in half from 12-38 baht to 10-15 baht per trip. As
> of
> 2006, fares range between 14-36 baht per trip."  With an exchange rate
> as I
> write of 32 baht to one US dollar, that's a mighty high fare.  Good
> thing
> Bangladeshis are wealthier than Thais (??).
>
> Meanwhile, the anticipated cost for the BRT is 33.4 million for 36
> kilometers.  Admittedly, anticipated costs are often far less than
> actual
> costs, but still, at US$0.93 million per kilometer, that's a bargain
> compared to the Metro or the skytrain-even more so when considering it's
> being built last, when prices are highest.  At 67 times less than the
> skytrain and 141 times less than the Metro, even with significant cost
> increases, it will still be far more affordable than its public transit
> predecessors.
>
> Of course, operational costs are another issue.  Buses require fuel,
> trains
> electricity.  Buses tend to require more maintenance, tires wear down
> frequently, and buses have to be replaced far more often than trains.
> While
> it is cheaper to build a BRT system initially, the higher operational
> costs
> might mean that, in the long term, a tram system would be more
> affordable-tram meaning street-level light rail, not something up in the
> sky
> or underground, which greatly multiplies the costs.
>
> Which is all to say, I'm all for public transit.  So, apparently, are
> Thais:
> last I checked, hotels and housing advertise their proximity to the
> various
> public transit options.  Apparently people are sick and tired of sitting
> in
> cars stuck in traffic jams.  In public transit, you can sit back and
> read a
> book while you ride, look out the window (preferably not at tunnels),
> eavesdrop on your neighbor's conversation, and otherwise amuse yourself
> without risking crashing into someone once the traffic moves again.
>
> But when considering spending millions or billions on public transit, it
> would make sense to invest it wisely, in a system that will be the most
> extensive and least expensive, and thus offer the best value for the
> money.
> At 141 times per kilometer less to build BRT than Metro, we could both
> have
> a far more extensive system, meeting far more people's needs, and lower
> fares.  Sounds like a bargain to me!
>
>  
>
>
>
> Syed Siful Alam Shovan 
> shovan1209 at yahoo.com 
>
>   
>
> -------------------------------------------------------- 
> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via
> YAHOOGROUPS. 
>
> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to
> join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The
> yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to
> the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem
> like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement.
>
> ================================================================
> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South'). 
> -------------------------------------------------------- 
> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. 
>
> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement.
>
> ================================================================
> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). 
>
>   
-------------------------------------------------------- 
IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. 

Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement.

================================================================
SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). 




-------------------------------------------------------- 
IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. 

Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement.

================================================================
SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). 







------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 23:24:53 +0530
From: "Sujit Patwardhan" <sujit at vsnl.com>
Subject: [sustran] Re: Sustainable transport and the media in India
	...
To: "Madhav Badami, Prof." <madhav.g.badami at mcgill.ca>
Cc: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport
	<sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org>
Message-ID:
	<4cfd20aa0802170954g269d6a9cs6623d1022399947f at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Madhav,
Thanks but they still don't work (for me at least).
--
Sujit




On Feb 17, 2008 11:07 PM, Madhav Badami, Prof. <madhav.g.badami at mcgill.ca>
wrote:

> Hello all, again,
>
> Our friend Sujit Patwardhan from Pune pointed out that the links that I
> provided to the Pioneer articles don't work ... please try the ones below
> (the links I provided earlier worked a week or so ago!).
>
>
> http://www.dailypioneer.com/archives2/default12.asp?main_variable=front%5Fpage&file_name=story5%2Etxt&counter_img=5&phy_path_it=E%3A%5Cdailypioneer%5Carchives2%5Cnov607
>
>
> http://www.dailypioneer.com/archives2/default12.asp?main_variable=front%5Fpage&file_name=story6%2Etxt&counter_img=6&phy_path_it=E%3A%5Cdailypioneer%5Carchives2%5Cnov707
>
> A minor correction to the sentence "The items in these newspapers not only
> criticized the implementation of the system, and its appropriateness for
> Delhi, but the very concept of BRT, besides personally attacking Dinesh
> Mohan of IIT Delhi, who, along with his colleague Geetam Tiwari, proposed
> and conceptualized it." in the first paragraph of my posting; it should
> read: "The items in these newspapers not only criticized the implementation
> of the system, and its appropriateness for Delhi, but the very concept of
> BRT. Besides, the Pioneer pieces personally attacked Dinesh Mohan of IIT
> Delhi, who, along with his colleague Geetam Tiwari, proposed and
> conceptualized it."
>
> Cheers,
>
> Madhav
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+madhav.g.badami=mcgill.ca at list.jca.apc.orgon behalf of Madhav Badami, Prof.
> Sent: Sun 2/17/2008 10:57 AM
> To: Sustran Resource Centre
> Cc: NewMobilityCafe at yahoogroups.com; shovan1209 at yahoo.com;
> gerardn at rhd.gov.bd
> Subject: [sustran] Sustainable transport and the media in India ...
>
> Greetings all,
>
> I thank Yasmin Chowdhury for her "Pricing public transit:  learning from
> Bangkok", and Saiful Alam (and Eric Britton) for posting it. Yasmin's piece,
> and Lee's response to it, reminded me of the attack that some newspapers in
> Delhi (chiefly The Pioneer and the Times of India) launched over several
> days on the High Capacity Bus System (HCBS), the BRT system being currently
> implemented there. The items in these newspapers not only criticized the
> implementation of the system, and its appropriateness for Delhi, but the
> very concept of BRT, besides personally attacking Dinesh Mohan of IIT Delhi,
> who, along with his colleague Geetam Tiwari, proposed and conceptualized it.
>
> Two of the items, titled "Experts Order Serial Rape of Delhi Roads:
> Mindless HCBS plan derails traffic, destroys greenery, leaves city gasping"
> and "Will somebody wake up to stop this HCBS madness?", both of which
> appeared as "investigation" pieces in The Pioneer on November 6 and 7, may
> be accessed at:
>
>
> http://www.dailypioneer.com/archives2/default12.asp?main_variable=front%5Fpage&file_name=story5%2Etxt&counter_img=5&phy_path_it=E%3A%5Cdailypioneer%5Carchives2%5Cnov607
>
>
> http://www.dailypioneer.com/archives2/default12.asp?main_variable=front%5Fpage&file_name=story6%2Etxt&counter_img=6&phy_path_it=E%3A%5Cdailypioneer%5Carchives2%5Cnov707
>
> The Times of India, a leading English language national daily effectively
> made the same claims as in the above items, in several pieces, including one
> titled "Buses Hog Space, Cars Squeezed Out" on November 16.
>
> Feeling compelled to respond to these items (whose titles betray their
> general tone and content), I wrote an article in which I attempted to rebut
> them point by point, and sent it off to The Hindu, another leading English
> language national daily. My article was not published as it was originally
> written, because it was felt by the editor to be "polemical", and too long.
> But he did publish (on December 5) a considerably condensed version in which
> I removed specific references to the pieces in the Times of India and the
> Pioneer.
>
> In the end, I was thankful for his decision, because, although it denied
> me the opportunity to directly confront various specific claims made in the
> pieces (such as, for example, that the decision to implement BRT was sold by
> a cabal of experts to decision makers who accepted it in a hurry - actually,
> it was approved after having been debated and scrutinized at length in
> various official committees since the mid-1990s), it resulted in what I
> believe is a more carefully argued and tightly focused article, which may be
> accessed at:
>
> http://www.hindu.com/2007/12/05/stories/2007120553611000.htm
>
> Apart from arguing that BRT systems have the potential, when properly
> designed and implemented, to be low cost mass transit solutions that are
> appropriate for rapidly motorizing, low-income country cities, I placed the
> issue of BRT (and more generally, mass transit) in a larger context, by
> making the case that policies to appropriately price and curb personal motor
> vehicle use, and provide accessibility for pedestrians and cyclists, are
> important for enhancing the effectiveness of mass transit, allowing all
> modes (including cars and other personal motor vehicles) to operate more
> efficiently, mitigating rapidly worsening urban transport impacts, and
> promoting social justice on our roads.
>
> My purpose is not only to share my article (to which I welcome your
> critical comments) but also to demonstrate what we are up against in
> confronting the elite interests represented and served by the mainstream
> media (with their pro-car, highway, flyovers, and metro, and
> anti-pedestrian, NMT and bus transit prejudices), and arguing for more
> environmentally sustainable and socially equitable alternatives. It is
> little wonder that the Tata Nano has been largely applauded in the same
> media as the greatest thing since sliced bread (or, if you wish, masala
> dosa) - including, as I recall, for the rural masses of this country, who
> ostensibly have no unmet needs other than a 1-1.5 lakh rupee car.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Madhav
>
> ************************************************************************
>
> "As for the future, your task is not to foresee, but to enable it."
> Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>
> Madhav G. Badami, PhD
> School of Urban Planning and McGill School of Environment
> McGill University
> Macdonald-Harrington Building
> 815 Sherbrooke Street West
> Montreal, QC, H3A 2K6, Canada
>
> Phone: 514-398-3183 (Work); 514-486-2370 (Home)
> Fax: 514-398-8376; 514-398-1643
> URLs: www.mcgill.ca/urbanplanning
> www.mcgill.ca/mse
> e-mail: madhav.badami at mcgill.ca
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+madhav.g.badami=mcgill.ca at list.jca.apc.orgon behalf of Carlosfelipe Pardo
> Sent: Thu 2/14/2008 12:11 PM
> To: Lee Schipper
> Cc: NewMobilityCafe at yahoogroups.com; shovan1209 at yahoo.com; Sustran
> Resource Centre; gerardn at rhd.gov.bd
> Subject: [sustran] Re: Pricing public transit:  learning from Bangkok
>
>
>  From living in Bangkok in 2005, I would say the best mode of transport
> (not the cleanest, but the best) are the motorboats on the canals. If
> Bangkok would "unearth" the rivers it has underground and developed a
> real water-based transport system, it may be less expensive and more
> efficient than many others.
>
> Incidentally, the river boats have similar routes to the Skytrain (on
> the klong behind Sukkumvit at least), at 8 baht (20 us cent) for along
> ride and 4 Baht (10 US cent) for a short ride (Bangkokians may confirm).
>
> And yes, the BTS is for tourists and visitors.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Carlosfelipe Pardo
> Coordinador de Proyecto- Project Coordinator
> GTZ - Proyecto de Transporte Sostenible (SUTP, SUTP-LAC)
> Cl 93A # 14-17 of 708
> Bogot? D.C., Colombia
> Tel/fax:  +57 (1) 236 2309  Mobile: +57 (3) 15 296 0662
> carlos.pardo at gtz.de        www.gtz.de
> (carlos.pardo at sutp.org   www.sutp.org )
>
>
>
> Lee Schipper wrote:
> > My daughter lives near the Skytrain, which makes her apartment very
> > accessible.. but others laughed and said "the Skytrain is for tourists
> > and students". Whatever, it works for journeys along the corridor. Her
> > building sends a shuttle, actually a small golf cart, to pick up
> > visitors and residents for the last 750 meters.
> >
> > When moving there from a nearby hotel ona Saturday afternoon with
> > baggage I made a mistake and took a cab. Took 50 minutes because of
> > horrible traffic and one way streets. Skytrain would have taken 10 mins
> > walk plus 4 minute ride. But I would have had to haul my bags up three
> > stories of stairs because the sky train stop near my hotel did not have
> > a lift or escalator, at least not one I could find.
> >
> > As for the metro, I'm told Thais do not like to ride underground, pure
> > and simple.
> >
> > The real issue is in Yasmin's cost figures --- How much money would it
> > cost to put in enough Skytrain and other rail lines to blanket the city?
> > And what good would it do without real restraints on individual vehicle
> > use -- widescale congestion pricing etc.
> >
> > Lee Schipper
> > EMBARQ Fellow
> > EMBARQ the WRI Center for  Sustainable Transport
> > www.embarq.wri.org
> >
> > and
> >
> > Visiting Scholar,
> > Univ of Calif Transport Center
> > Berkeley CA
> > www.uctc.net
> > skype: mrmeter
> > 510 642 6889
> > 202 262 7476
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org at list.jca.apc.org
> > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org at list.jca.apc.org] On
> > Behalf Of eric.britton
> > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 8:08 AM
> > To: Sustran Resource Centre; NewMobilityCafe at yahoogroups.com
> > Cc: shovan1209 at yahoo.com; gerardn at rhd.gov.bd
> > Subject: [sustran] Pricing public transit: learning from Bangkok
> >
> > From: Saiful Alam [mailto:shovan1209 at yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, 14 February 2008 15:03
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Pricing public transit:  learning from Bangkok
> >
> > Yasmin Chowdhury
> >
> > When I first visited Bangkok in 1994, I got around the city mostly by
> > bus.
> > The buses were slow, the streets congested, and I soon learned that I
> > could
> > only make one plan for the morning and one for the afternoon, as it
> > might
> > take a couple hours to move about.
> >
> > Then the city started to build their skytrain.  I waited with great
> > anticipation for its completion.  It seemed to require a lot more time
> > and a
> > lot more money (OK, just two years of delay and three times over budget)
> > than originally anticipated, and the fares are admittedly quite high,
> > but it
> > was finally built-if never finished.  (I saw an article in a Thai
> > newspaper
> > about people very upset that the planned line to their area had never
> > been
> > built; meanwhile, the pilings leading to the now domestic-only airport
> > have
> > been converted into advertising posts.)
> >
> > To be quite honest, I love the skytrain.  Sure, the cement structure
> > looming
> > overhead is ugly.  Sure, most of the stations lack escalators, making
> > them
> > inaccessible to those in wheelchairs, and exceedingly difficult for
> > those
> > lugging heavy bags or luggage.  Sure, the two lines only cover a very
> > limited portion of Bangkok.  Sure, it's expensive.  Sure, despite all
> > the
> > hassles, the trains are often packed.  Sure, the stations are congested
> > and
> > I sometimes have to push through people to reach my train.  But at least
> > I
> > can see a little of the city while I travel, and I can now get around to
> > the
> > stops on the line quickly, allowing myself to visit far more places in a
> > day.
> >
> > Though the skytrain certainly makes moving around the city much easier
> > (if
> > you can afford it), it obviously didn't alleviate the congestion, as the
> > government then opened a very limited subway system.  The first time I
> > tried
> > to ride it, about a year after it opened, it was closed for two weeks
> > due to
> > an accident.  I finally rode it a couple years after that, and
> > discovered
> > that it cost about US$0.50 to ride what it would take me ten minutes to
> > walk.  That seemed outrageous, and I don't love riding up and down long
> > escalators and traveling in tunnels.  Since the Metro doesn't seem to go
> > much beyond the skytrain, I stick to the skytrain.
> >
> > But now, after spending billions of dollars on those mass transit
> > systems,
> > and despite having an existing extensive bus system, and more roads than
> > most Asian cities of their level of economic development, the government
> > is
> > now planning bus rapid transit-a bit like a street-level trolley, but
> > with
> > buses instead of trams.  Of course, that too is delayed-but the cost is
> > a
> > fraction of that for the skytrain and Metro.
> >
> > A more careful look at those costs reveals something interesting and of
> > considerable relevance as Dhaka plans its public transit system.
> > According
> > to various Web sites, the skytrain, which opened in 1999, cost about
> > US$1.5
> > billion for 24 kilometers.  That amounts to US$62.5 million per
> > kilometer.
> > Of course, things were cheaper back then.
> >
> > Construction of the Metro began back in 1996, but it wasn't finished
> > until
> > 2004.  According to Wikipedia, "The project suffered multiple delays not
> > only because of the 1997 economic crisis, but also due to challenging
> > civil
> > engineering works of constructing massive underground structures deep in
> > the
> > water-logged soil upon which the city is built."  Interesting.
> > Fortunately
> > we don't have those troubles in Dhaka (ahem!).
> >
> > As for cost, the Metro cost a mere US$ 2.75 billion for 21 km, or
> > US$130.95
> > million per kilometer-just over twice that of the skytrain.  Apparently
> > burrowing underground, dealing with flooding issues, providing
> > ventilation,
> > and so on is much more expensive than building above our heads.
> > Meanwhile,
> > again quoting Wikipedia, "ridership has settled down to around 180,000
> > riders daily - considerably lower than projections of over 400,000,
> > despite
> > fares being slashed in half from 12-38 baht to 10-15 baht per trip. As
> > of
> > 2006, fares range between 14-36 baht per trip."  With an exchange rate
> > as I
> > write of 32 baht to one US dollar, that's a mighty high fare.  Good
> > thing
> > Bangladeshis are wealthier than Thais (??).
> >
> > Meanwhile, the anticipated cost for the BRT is 33.4 million for 36
> > kilometers.  Admittedly, anticipated costs are often far less than
> > actual
> > costs, but still, at US$0.93 million per kilometer, that's a bargain
> > compared to the Metro or the skytrain-even more so when considering it's
> > being built last, when prices are highest.  At 67 times less than the
> > skytrain and 141 times less than the Metro, even with significant cost
> > increases, it will still be far more affordable than its public transit
> > predecessors.
> >
> > Of course, operational costs are another issue.  Buses require fuel,
> > trains
> > electricity.  Buses tend to require more maintenance, tires wear down
> > frequently, and buses have to be replaced far more often than trains.
> > While
> > it is cheaper to build a BRT system initially, the higher operational
> > costs
> > might mean that, in the long term, a tram system would be more
> > affordable-tram meaning street-level light rail, not something up in the
> > sky
> > or underground, which greatly multiplies the costs.
> >
> > Which is all to say, I'm all for public transit.  So, apparently, are
> > Thais:
> > last I checked, hotels and housing advertise their proximity to the
> > various
> > public transit options.  Apparently people are sick and tired of sitting
> > in
> > cars stuck in traffic jams.  In public transit, you can sit back and
> > read a
> > book while you ride, look out the window (preferably not at tunnels),
> > eavesdrop on your neighbor's conversation, and otherwise amuse yourself
> > without risking crashing into someone once the traffic moves again.
> >
> > But when considering spending millions or billions on public transit, it
> > would make sense to invest it wisely, in a system that will be the most
> > extensive and least expensive, and thus offer the best value for the
> > money.
> > At 141 times per kilometer less to build BRT than Metro, we could both
> > have
> > a far more extensive system, meeting far more people's needs, and lower
> > fares.  Sounds like a bargain to me!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Syed Siful Alam Shovan
> > shovan1209 at yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via
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> >
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> > yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to
> > the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem
> > like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement.
> >
> > ================================================================
> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> > (the 'Global South').
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via
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> >
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> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South').
> >
> >
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> can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement.
>
> ================================================================
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> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South').
>
>
>
>
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> can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement.
>
> ================================================================
> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South').
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
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>
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> can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement.
>
> ================================================================
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> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South').
>



-- 
------------------------------------------------------
Sujit Patwardhan
sujit at vsnl.com
sujitjp at gmail.com

"Yamuna",
ICS Colony,
Ganeshkhind Road,
Pune 411 007
India
Tel: 25537955
-----------------------------------------------------
Hon. Secretary:
Parisar
www.parisar.org
------------------------------------------------------
Founder Member:
PTTF
(Pune Traffic & Transportation Forum)
www.pttf.net
------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

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SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). 

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