From richmond at alum.mit.edu Wed Apr 2 20:07:59 2008 From: richmond at alum.mit.edu (Jonathan Richmond) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 16:07:59 +0500 (Caucasus Daylight Time) Subject: [sustran] Writing an Effective RFP for Public Transport System Design Message-ID: I would appreciate some input on approaches to writing an effective RFP for the conduct of major planning works. We will soon be launching an advertisement for expressions of interest for our Bus Modernization Programme and are preparing the related Requests for Proposals. The programme is to include the design of major new express bus facilities (Busway and bus only lanes) and BRT services to run thereon, an operational plan for the new facilities, a national bus route redesign, a plan for bus regulatory reform, and related tasks. This is a big project! Looking through RFPs elsewhere, I see a number of approaches. In some cases, a high degree of detail is specified. Consultants are instructed in every detail of the analysis they are to perform. For example, for demand analysis, they are advised of which surveys they are to conduct, where they are to be conducted, the models they are to use and so on. Other RFPs are much briefer, leaving it to the consultant to develop and submit a detailed plan with their response. I would much appreciate some feedback on what you see as the advantages and disadvantages of these different approaches, and any other ideas on effective RFP writing would also be much welcomed! Thanks! --Jonathan ----- Jonathan Richmond Transport Adviser to the Government of Mauritius Ministry of Public Infrastructure, Land Transport and Shipping New Government Centre, Level 4 Port Louis Mauritius +230 707-1134 (Mauritius mobile: most reliable way to reach me) +1 (617) 395-4360 (US phone number rings at home -- call me in Mauritius for the price of a call to the US). +1 (425) 998-1554 (US phone number, connects to mobile phone when in wifi zone, or goes to voice mail) +44 (0)7978 807532 (UK mobile number, connects to mobile phone when in wifi zone, or goes to voice mail). This is also a SIP number. If you have a SIP phone you can reach me by dialing: sip:447978807532@truphone.com e-mail: richmond@alum.mit.edu http://the-tech.mit.edu/~richmond/ From carlosfpardo at gmail.com Thu Apr 3 01:57:24 2008 From: carlosfpardo at gmail.com (Carlosfelipe Pardo) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2008 11:57:24 -0500 Subject: [sustran] One week for registration deadline: China 2-day Mass Transit (BRT) course Message-ID: <47F3BAF4.3020303@gmail.com> Dear colleagues, GTZ, CAI Asia, Energy Foundation China and Shandong University will jointly organize a 2-day training course on Mass Transit and BRT Planning in Jinan on April 24-25, 2008. The event will be hosted by Shandong University of Jinan and is part of the SUMA project developed together with CAI-Asia and other partners. The training will cover planning steps of a Mass Transit / Bus Rapid Transit project from its conception to its final implementation and inauguration. Resource persons for the course will include Mr Paulo Custodio (Brazil), Prof Jason Chang (China) and Mr Carlosfelipe Pardo (Colombia). There will be half day tour through Jinan's BRT system on April 25, 2008 morning. Expected participants to the course are policymakers, planners and engineers from Chinese cities or other interested parties. There are only 35 vacancies for the course, which will be filled up as registrations are received. *_The registration deadline is 10 April 2008_*. Updated information on the course (program, registration, hotels) is available in this link: http://www.sutp.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1067&Itemid=1&lang=uk Best regards, SUTP team From sujit at vsnl.com Thu Apr 3 23:08:38 2008 From: sujit at vsnl.com (Sujit Patwardhan) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 19:38:38 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Fwd: Satyagraha for pedestrians' rights - DNA In-Reply-To: <002401c8957d$ad496c60$6401a8c0@xyz4c963e4503b> References: <002401c8957d$ad496c60$6401a8c0@xyz4c963e4503b> Message-ID: <4cfd20aa0804030708i7de3014k9c5ad08a142a8a28@mail.gmail.com> 3 April 2008 I'm forwarding a message from our friend Ajitbhai Shenoy (Mumbai) which is sure to be of interest to all on the SUSTRAN list. This is most inspiring for advocates of sustainable transportation, because it is clear that ultimately only visible mass public pressure will generate the "political will" essential for overhauling an outdated and unjust vision that favours autos at the cost of pedestrians, cyclists and users of public transport. -- Sujit Wednesday, March 26, 2008 3:20:00 AM *Permission to reprint or copy this article or photo must be obtained from www.3dsyndication.com.* *Satyagraha for pedestrians' rights* Sandeep Ashar *Bandra residents use this strategy to claim the right to use road space encroached upon by autos and hawkers* MUMBAI: The tony suburb of Bandra has a brand new fixation ? the Pedestrian Satyagraha or civil disobedience for the rights of pedestrians. The fight for pedestrians having the first right to use road space, initiated by the group Sahasi Padyatri and supported by DNA, has found a considerable support from Bandra residents. So overwhelming has been the response that the activist pedestrians have decided to make it a mainstay for the campaign. Krishnaraj Rao, co-founder of Sahasi Padyatri, whose volunteers have taken to drawing 6 ft lanes from the centre of the road on both sides, said, "Having received support from the citizens' trust in Bandra, we have decided to continue marking lanes in the suburb as a 'pedestrian-only' territory. Buoyed by the response, we have decided to focus our efforts in this region." Volunteers of the group, along with local citizens, will repaint the pedestrian-only lanes at Bandra's station road on Thursday. These lanes were painted last week. The campaign was appreciated by many commuters and locals, for whom walking on the road had become a nightmare with autorickshaws and hawkers encroaching upon the road space meant for pedestrians. Vidya Vaidya, member, Federation of H/West Ward Citizens' Trust, attributed the response to the active citizens' movement in the suburb. "We have jointly decided to support the group in the fight for the pedestrians' territory. We will keep demarcating lanes and encourage more and more people to use these lanes," she said. While Bandra has taken to the satyagraha like no other, citizens from all parts from the city have begun to volunteer for the cause. Rao said, "Aggrieved pedestrians from any part of the city can contact the group for staging the satyagraha in their area." *If the roads in your area are hell for pedestrians and you want to voice your protest, contact Sahasi Padyatri at 98215 88114 or mail us at ** padyatri@dnaindia.net* -- ------------------------------------------------------ Sujit Patwardhan sujit@vsnl.com sujitjp@gmail.com "Yamuna", ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007 India Tel: 25537955 ----------------------------------------------------- Hon. Secretary: Parisar www.parisar.org ------------------------------------------------------ Founder Member: PTTF (Pune Traffic & Transportation Forum) www.pttf.net ------------------------------------------------------ From edelman at greenidea.eu Sun Apr 6 16:33:15 2008 From: edelman at greenidea.eu (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory) Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2008 09:33:15 +0200 Subject: [sustran] BBC: India's 'sensory assault course' Message-ID: <47F87CBB.80301@greenidea.eu> * India's 'sensory assault course' * See link below, this is also available as an archived audio broadcast.... [Comment: In Prague as in many other cities in the EU, the big box/hypermarket stores at the periphery of cities have "free" bus services from, e.g., the end stop on the metro/subway. So, I am curious if this is happening in India. In any case, it is clear to me that this is not about providing alternatives to the car - as most people still prefer to shop by car at places such as I describe because cars can carry a lot* - but about drawing people out of their own neighbourhoods. Many are "housewives"/domestic life managers who don't have their own car to use, as their husband is at work. And when these families have money for a second car, that will become the shopping vehicle. By then the local choice of shops would have gone down. I call this "suburban mobility graduation" or SMG: Going both to and from a city centre, customers of suburban trains and periphery-reaching metros "advance" to the car when they can afford it because mobility, rather than proximity, was the philosophical basis for planning. There has to be stuff available by walking or cycling. * Big store = Big car = Big refrigerator] **** Peter Day says India's small shops and traditional bazaars are here to stay, despite attempts by huge corporations to organise the chaotic retail scene.* * Smells, sights, and sounds assault the senses everywhere in India. And shopping is no exception. In the bazaars of Old Delhi, tiny outlets crammed together offer astounding choice for browsers and hagglers. There is everything - from the most pungent spices and sparkling materials with gorgeous trimmings for wedding saris, to fantastic handmade fireworks and great spinning wheels of explosive fire - stacked outside the shops standing higher than a man. The noise is ceaseless. Clustered close to the local railway station, in an edgy district of Mumbai, hundreds of squatting hawkers offer an extraordinary choice of gleaming fresh vegetables, carrots and green curry leaves, and dazzling white piles of garlic, stripped for purchase. A crowd watches the vada man fry his doughnuts golden brown over a fire on his push cart. In India, people say, there are 12 million of these - mostly tiny - retail outlets. But as the country hurtles to join the top global economies, huge corporations are mustering new forces to organise the apparently chaotic retail scene. * New retail experience * Vast shopping malls are leaping up into the sky on the edge of big Indian cities. For the first time, small neighbourhood supermarkets are springing up in the centre of towns with air-conditioning and self-service. In the choking high-technology city of Bangalore in southern India, random shoppers were full of praise for the new retail experience in a neighbourhood supermarket, owned by a big Indian corporation celebrating its first anniversary. "Everything under one roof and cheaper," said a student. A couple who had come 4.8 km (3 miles) to shop volunteered another slogan. "This is going to do a blast of business." To compete with the streets, the new supermarkets are emphasising freshness. The spinach in Bangalore was on the shelves six hours after picking. Leaf vegetables are delivered twice a day despite some of the worst traffic jams in the world. * Rowdy protests * Traditional neighbourhood shops are feeling the heat. Shopkeepers and street hawkers in New Delhi complain that takings have halved since two supermarkets opened in the past few months. On several occasions local activists have held rowdy protests which have forced the new shops to close their shutters. They say that the entry of Western style shopping will hit the livelihoods of 50 million people. The tiny shops do not stock much - compared with the superstores - but they offer quite extraordinary service. Just a few steps from hundreds of crammed apartments these shopkeepers know their customers intimately. They will send round to your home, on credit, one single cigarette at 11pm. Shopping in the rich world has not been like this for decades. Last year was supposed to be when the multinational corporate retail giants were going to pour into India, but it has not happened quite like that. * New markets * The law is still preventing foreign shops from selling anything but their own brand products. That is fine for Nike trainers, Body Shop, or Marks and Spencer franchises, but none of the big foreign general retailers are allowed. Instead they have side-stepped the rules with joint venture deals which keep their names off the fascias or opened huge cash-and-carry warehouses into which they insist they allow only retail, hotel, and restaurant customers excluding non-professionals. Indian politicians are fearful of the retail lobby and the hundreds of millions of farmers with a vote. The new Indian supermarket chains are trying to burnish their reputations. The store group subsidiary of the Barti telecoms giant showed me its new agricultural training centre. Farmers in the abundant wheat and rice growing country in Punjab are shown how to produce four crops of supermarket produce a year, such as baby corn or French beans, for export to Europe, but also for the new domestic market. Despite the terrible fact that thousands of heavily indebted farmers all over India have committed suicide in recent years, the complex traditional Indian supply chain, from farm to retail outlet, is remarkable whatever the new supermarket chains say. It is no wonder that politicians are wary of letting in disruptive foreign operators. * 'Sensory assault course' * One home-grown retailer, ignoring the allure of rich-world shopping with a very different approach, is the distinctively named Pantaloon. It is a Mumbai based, fast-spreading retailer with a difference. Its Big Bazaar shops take their inspiration and their methodology from the clamour of the traditional bazaar. To orderly multinational minds Big Bazaar is a seemingly noisy chaos of aisle-less stores, goods piled up on the floor, and extravagant offers. Buy one, get one free on cleaning fluid, for example. "India is different," says the boss who proudly showed me round. "And this is what Indians want." The Pantaloon is right, at least for the moment. Despite the blandishments of the new superstores, shopping in India is - thank goodness - likely to remain a sensory assault course for some time to come. * From Our Own Correspondent was broadcast on Saturday 5 April, 2008 at 1130 BST on BBC Radio 4. Please check the programme schedules for World Service transmission times. * Story from BBC NEWS: Published: 2008/04/05 11:05:26 GMT -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunni 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic Skype: toddedelman ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 edelman@greenidea.eu http://greenideafactory.blogspot.com/ www.flickr.com/photos/edelman Green Idea Factory is a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net CAR is over. If you WANT it. From edelman at greenidea.eu Fri Apr 11 09:05:42 2008 From: edelman at greenidea.eu (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 02:05:42 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Send Postcards today for the Carfree Cities Art Show! Message-ID: <47FEAB56.6030805@greenidea.eu> Invitation to Artists and Activists The Carfree Cities Mail Art Show For display at Portland, Oregon City Hall, June 2008 As the center-piece of the World Carfree Network's annual conference - previous events held in Prague, Berlin, Budapest, Bogota and Istanbul - this event will feature an installation of Mail Art from around the world. We invite artists and writers everywhere to send original mailable photos, paintings and collages, poetry and prose, celebrating freedom from car culture in any and every phase of life, to: SHIFT P.O. Box 6662 Portland, Oregon USA 97228 The official theme of this conference is "Rediscovering Proximity" We share our earth with billions of people as well as the whole natural world's myriad creatures and flora and ecosystems. Our transportation and urban planning choices directly impact the health of the planet. The fact that Portland city offialdom has thrown open the doors of City Hall to celebrate freedom from auto-obsessed culture and the interconnectedness between our local and global communities is an important and unusual gesture for an American city. This art will become part of a traveling exhibit and make future visits to cities hosting Carfree events. We regret being unable to return the pieces to the artists, but credit to all artists will be scrupulously noted. All art must be received before June 1st, 2008 to be included in the show at City Hall in Portland. www.carfreeportland.org www.worldcarfree.net www.shift2bikes.org Please Repost -- 0__/ thanks! _ / ! I _ _/\ / \_ [carfree_network] list guidelines and unsubscribe information are found at http://www.worldcarfree.net/listservs/. Send messages for the entire list to carfree_network@lists.riseup.net. Send replies to individuals off-list. -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunni 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic Skype: toddedelman ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 edelman@greenidea.eu http://greenideafactory.blogspot.com/ www.flickr.com/photos/edelman Green Idea Factory is a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net CAR is over. If you WANT it. From richmond at alum.mit.edu Wed Apr 16 18:19:54 2008 From: richmond at alum.mit.edu (Jonathan Richmond) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:19:54 +0500 (Caucasus Daylight Time) Subject: [sustran] Bus purchase help needed Message-ID: Sorry to bother the more academic members of these lists, but I have been grateful for some wonderfully helpful suggestions when posing previous practical questions here -- so, here goes again! I need some help over bus purchases. The bus fleet here in Mauritius is of very low quality: almost entirely with high floors, many steps to climb, only one door -- slowing down entry and exit -- and no aircon. We are looking at ways to replace the total public and private sector fleets of 2500 buses and are planning to do an initial procurement exercise for the public bus company, National Transport Corporation, ordering perhaps one hundred buses. We do not have the necessary expertise in writing the tender documents or supervising the tender process. We are therefore using a fast-track tender process to invite proposals to help us with this. The requirements are: Conduct a brief analysis of operating requirements of Mauritius bus operators and bus specifications required by the regulatory system Design a technical specification for low-floor, airconditioned buses that includes bus body specification, air con specification and passenger safety. Finalize tender documents for procurement exercise. Provide a detailed study on the proposals submitted from each tenderer, with recommendations. Maintain contuct with tender winner to ensure prototype bus meeds agreed specifications. Conduct acceptance test before serial production. Develop maintenance regimes and design and deliver maintenane handbook. Develop and implement essential training programs on maintenance. The budget limit for fast-track tendering is 5 million Maurituan rs. (US $193,800). All costs, inclusing cost of travel must be included in a proposal that is no more than this amount. If any of you are qualified and interested to do this, please do get in touch. Also, if you know others who might be interested, please pass this on to them. Many thanks!!! --Jonathan! ----- Jonathan Richmond Transport Adviser to the Government of Mauritius Ministry of Public Infrastructure, Land Transport and Shipping New Government Centre, Level 4 Port Louis Mauritius +230 707-1134 (Mauritius mobile: most reliable way to reach me) +1 (617) 395-4360 (US phone number rings at home -- call me in Mauritius for the price of a call to the US). +44 (0)7978 807532 (UK mobile number, connects to mobile phone when in wifi zone, or goes to voice mail). This is also a SIP number. If you have a SIP phone you can reach me by dialing: sip:447978807532@truphone.com e-mail: richmond@alum.mit.edu http://the-tech.mit.edu/~richmond/ From whook at itdp.org Wed Apr 16 23:28:15 2008 From: whook at itdp.org (Walter Hook) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:28:15 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: Bus purchase help needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003801c89fce$1d3570a0$3601a8c0@DFJLYL81> As this is a straight public sector bus procurement, you should check with someone at FTA or with FTA experience. I am cc'ing sam Zimmerman now at the world bank who might have a better idea. Certainly close dialog with the operators is critical to understand the specific bus needs of the drive cycle in Marituius, not sure what your roads are like or how low floor will perform in those conditions. Certainly tests for anything new should be done. The track record for bus maintenance for public transport authorities in Africa is pretty weak, security of the fleet from spare part theft, contracts w/ the manufacturer for ongoing maintenance, perhaps contracting out operations, with liability for the vehicle passing on to the operator, etc, I should think are more serious concerns than the bus procurement itself. -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of Jonathan Richmond Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 5:20 AM To: UTSG@JISCMAIL.AC.UK; Sustran List; PLANET Subject: [sustran] Bus purchase help needed Sorry to bother the more academic members of these lists, but I have been grateful for some wonderfully helpful suggestions when posing previous practical questions here -- so, here goes again! I need some help over bus purchases. The bus fleet here in Mauritius is of very low quality: almost entirely with high floors, many steps to climb, only one door -- slowing down entry and exit -- and no aircon. We are looking at ways to replace the total public and private sector fleets of 2500 buses and are planning to do an initial procurement exercise for the public bus company, National Transport Corporation, ordering perhaps one hundred buses. We do not have the necessary expertise in writing the tender documents or supervising the tender process. We are therefore using a fast-track tender process to invite proposals to help us with this. The requirements are: Conduct a brief analysis of operating requirements of Mauritius bus operators and bus specifications required by the regulatory system Design a technical specification for low-floor, airconditioned buses that includes bus body specification, air con specification and passenger safety. Finalize tender documents for procurement exercise. Provide a detailed study on the proposals submitted from each tenderer, with recommendations. Maintain contuct with tender winner to ensure prototype bus meeds agreed specifications. Conduct acceptance test before serial production. Develop maintenance regimes and design and deliver maintenane handbook. Develop and implement essential training programs on maintenance. The budget limit for fast-track tendering is 5 million Maurituan rs. (US $193,800). All costs, inclusing cost of travel must be included in a proposal that is no more than this amount. If any of you are qualified and interested to do this, please do get in touch. Also, if you know others who might be interested, please pass this on to them. Many thanks!!! --Jonathan! ----- Jonathan Richmond Transport Adviser to the Government of Mauritius Ministry of Public Infrastructure, Land Transport and Shipping New Government Centre, Level 4 Port Louis Mauritius +230 707-1134 (Mauritius mobile: most reliable way to reach me) +1 (617) 395-4360 (US phone number rings at home -- call me in Mauritius for the price of a call to the US). +44 (0)7978 807532 (UK mobile number, connects to mobile phone when in wifi zone, or goes to voice mail). This is also a SIP number. If you have a SIP phone you can reach me by dialing: sip:447978807532@truphone.com e-mail: richmond@alum.mit.edu http://the-tech.mit.edu/~richmond/ -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From edelman at greenidea.eu Thu Apr 17 00:30:53 2008 From: edelman at greenidea.eu (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 17:30:53 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Re: Bus purchase help needed [in Mauritius] In-Reply-To: <003801c89fce$1d3570a0$3601a8c0@DFJLYL81> References: <003801c89fce$1d3570a0$3601a8c0@DFJLYL81> Message-ID: <48061BAD.9010006@greenidea.eu> Hi Jonathan, Your specifications mention nothing about type of engine/fuel source. What Walter said is true, but if you get all those things right what is the point if the fuel prices make the resulting ticket unaffordable and/or make it less interesting in comparison into a car? Both your Ministry and the NTC are members of UITP, and I am wondering if you have discussed fuel sources with them. Also, Moka Flacq plus Pamplemousses and Riviere du Rempart are members of ICLEI and might be able to get some advice or assistance and information about best practice from them. ICLEI, at least in Europe, is involved in a biofuel project. See www.biofuel-cities.eu I personally favour biogas from waste. Maybe you know all about it -- if so please forgive the following. If you have the proper and right mixture of feedstock for it (agricultural and household waste, sewerage waste, etc.) and can get it to a biogas reactor easily, then it could be the way to go. Start up costs are certainly higher than with petrol Diesel (the reactors plus the buses) but you will have a lot more control of and be able to predict fuel prices and availability then with petrol products. It seems to me like an island would like to have energy independence. There are several European biogas projects right now, such as www.biogasmax.com, but you can also just Google for biogas and transport. Most of the projects you will find involve small consumer biogas projects for cooking to larger scale projects for making electricity. For transport, biogas is more efficient if used for making electricity, but if you don't have electric vehicles... There also might be some EU projects which Mauritius can join, but it seems you might be working for a solution in the near-term. The GDP of your island is high in relation to the rest of Africa; you know better than I if you are a target country for development assistance. Sweden and also Germany are quite active in biogas development, especially Sweden for biogas buses. Let me know offlist if you want some more info. As you can see I have copied this email to people at ICLEI and UITP (again, please forgive me if it is redundant information). Kind regards, T Walter Hook wrote: > As this is a straight public sector bus procurement, you should check with > someone at FTA or with FTA experience. I am cc'ing sam Zimmerman now at the > world bank who might have a better idea. Certainly close dialog with the > operators is critical to understand the specific bus needs of the drive > cycle in Marituius, not sure what your roads are like or how low floor will > perform in those conditions. Certainly tests for anything new should be > done. > > The track record for bus maintenance for public transport authorities in > Africa is pretty weak, security of the fleet from spare part theft, > contracts w/ the manufacturer for ongoing maintenance, perhaps contracting > out operations, with liability for the vehicle passing on to the operator, > etc, I should think are more serious concerns than the bus procurement > itself. > > -----Original Message----- > From: sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf > Of Jonathan Richmond > Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 5:20 AM > To: UTSG@JISCMAIL.AC.UK; Sustran List; PLANET > Subject: [sustran] Bus purchase help needed > > > Sorry to bother the more academic members of these lists, but I have been > grateful for some wonderfully helpful suggestions when posing previous > practical questions here -- so, here goes again! > > I need some help over bus purchases. The bus fleet here in Mauritius is of > very low quality: almost entirely with high floors, many steps to climb, > only one door -- slowing down entry and exit -- and no aircon. > > We are looking at ways to replace the total public and private sector > fleets of 2500 buses and are planning to do an initial procurement > exercise for the public bus company, National Transport Corporation, > ordering perhaps one hundred buses. > > We do not have the necessary expertise in writing the tender documents or > supervising the tender process. We are therefore using a fast-track tender > process to invite proposals to help us with this. > > > The requirements are: > > Conduct a brief analysis of operating requirements of Mauritius bus > operators and bus specifications required by the regulatory system > > Design a technical specification for low-floor, airconditioned buses > that > includes bus body specification, air con specification and passenger > safety. > > Finalize tender documents for procurement exercise. > > Provide a detailed study on the proposals submitted from each > tenderer, > with recommendations. > > Maintain contuct with tender winner to ensure prototype bus meeds > agreed > specifications. > > Conduct acceptance test before serial production. > > Develop maintenance regimes and design and deliver maintenane > handbook. > > Develop and implement essential training programs on maintenance. > > > The budget limit for fast-track tendering is 5 million Maurituan rs. > (US $193,800). All costs, inclusing cost of travel must be included in a > proposal that is no more than this amount. > > If any of you are qualified and interested to do this, please do get in > touch. Also, if you know others who might be interested, please pass this > on to them. > > Many thanks!!! > > --Jonathan! > > ----- > Jonathan Richmond > Transport Adviser to the Government of Mauritius > Ministry of Public Infrastructure, Land Transport and Shipping > New Government Centre, Level 4 > Port Louis > Mauritius > > +230 707-1134 (Mauritius mobile: most reliable way to reach me) > > +1 (617) 395-4360 (US phone number rings at home -- call me in > Mauritius for the price of a call to the US). > > +44 (0)7978 807532 (UK mobile number, connects to mobile phone when in > wifi zone, or goes to voice mail). This is also a SIP number. If you > have a SIP phone you can reach me by dialing: sip:447978807532@truphone.com > > e-mail: richmond@alum.mit.edu > http://the-tech.mit.edu/~richmond/ > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join > the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups > version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real > sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). > Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). > > -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunni 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic Skype: toddedelman ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 edelman@greenidea.eu http://greenideafactory.blogspot.com/ www.flickr.com/photos/edelman Green Idea Factory is a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net CAR is over. If you WANT it. From sujitjp at gmail.com Thu Apr 17 05:22:21 2008 From: sujitjp at gmail.com (Sujit Patwardhan) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 01:52:21 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Please Note my Email ID In-Reply-To: <4cfd20aa0804161315u7fabe880l7f1050c32558000a@mail.gmail.com> References: <4cfd20aa0804161315u7fabe880l7f1050c32558000a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4cfd20aa0804161322i55a36383y2ccb673b87c79453@mail.gmail.com> 16 April 2008 Please note that my Email ID has not been operating properly, so please do NOT use that ID for any communication in future. Please note that all my Emails should please be sent to: sujitJp@gmail.com Please note that there is a *J* and* P* after *sujit* Many thanks and very sorry for the inconveneince. -- Sujit sujitjp@gmail.com -- ------------------------------------------------------ Sujit Patwardhan sujitjp@gmail.com "Yamuna", ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007 India Tel: +91 20 25537955 Cell: +91 98220 26627 ----------------------------------------------------- Hon. Secretary: Parisar www.parisar.org ------------------------------------------------------ Founder Member: PTTF (Pune Traffic & Transportation Forum) www.pttf.net ------------------------------------------------------ From litman at Islandnet.com Thu Apr 17 02:05:04 2008 From: litman at Islandnet.com (litman at Islandnet.com) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:05:04 -0700 Subject: [sustran] Re: Bus purchase help needed References: Message-ID: <480631c0-177a4@helpdesk.islandnet.com> Dear Jonathan, If you haven't already, I recommend that you review the "Bus Rapid Transit Planning Guide" (www.itdp.org/index.php/microsite/brt_planning_guide ) which has advice on vehicle procurement, and for more detailed information, contact the author, Lloyd Wright who knows absolutely everything about bus system planning and is very generous with with his information. Other good sources are: Major Desman Brown (2006), "Urban Public Bus Transportation in Developing Countries: A Roadmap For Successful Planning," Desmon Brown (www.desmonbrown.com). Eric Bruun (2008), "Better Public Transit Systems: Analyzing Investments and Performance," Planners Press; information at http://www.planning.org/APAStore/Content/Default.aspx?d=733 Good luck with your projec! Best wishes, -Todd Litman > > Sorry to bother the more academic members of these lists, but I have been > grateful for some wonderfully helpful suggestions when posing previous > practical questions here -- so, here goes again! > > I need some help over bus purchases. The bus fleet here in Mauritius is of > very low quality: almost entirely with high floors, many steps to climb, > only one door -- slowing down entry and exit -- and no aircon. > > We are looking at ways to replace the total public and private sector > fleets of 2500 buses and are planning to do an initial procurement > exercise for the public bus company, National Transport Corporation, > ordering perhaps one hundred buses. > > We do not have the necessary expertise in writing the tender documents or > supervising the tender process. We are therefore using a fast-track tender > process to invite proposals to help us with this. > > > The requirements are: > > Conduct a brief analysis of operating requirements of Mauritius bus > operators and bus specifications required by the regulatory system > > Design a technical specification for low-floor, airconditioned buses that > includes bus body specification, air con specification and passenger > safety. > > Finalize tender documents for procurement exercise. > > Provide a detailed study on the proposals submitted from each tenderer, > with recommendations. > > Maintain contuct with tender winner to ensure prototype bus meeds agreed > specifications. > > Conduct acceptance test before serial production. > > Develop maintenance regimes and design and deliver maintenane handbook. > > Develop and implement essential training programs on maintenance. > > > The budget limit for fast-track tendering is 5 million Maurituan rs. > (US $193,800). All costs, inclusing cost of travel must be included in a > proposal that is no more than this amount. > > If any of you are qualified and interested to do this, please do get in > touch. Also, if you know others who might be interested, please pass this > on to them. > > Many thanks!!! > > --Jonathan! > > ----- > Jonathan Richmond > Transport Adviser to the Government of Mauritius > Ministry of Public Infrastructure, Land Transport and Shipping > New Government Centre, Level 4 > Port Louis > Mauritius > > +230 707-1134 (Mauritius mobile: most reliable way to reach me) > > +1 (617) 395-4360 (US phone number rings at home -- call me in > Mauritius for the price of a call to the US). > > +44 (0)7978 807532 (UK mobile number, connects to mobile phone when in > wifi zone, or goes to voice mail). This is also a SIP number. If you > have a SIP phone you can reach me by dialing: sip:447978807532@truphone.com > > e-mail: richmond@alum.mit.edu > http://the-tech.mit.edu/~richmond/ > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). > > From szimmerman at worldbank.org Thu Apr 17 10:50:33 2008 From: szimmerman at worldbank.org (szimmerman at worldbank.org) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 21:50:33 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: Bus purchase help needed [in Mauritius] In-Reply-To: <48061BAD.9010006@greenidea.eu> Message-ID: An image of a Chinese bus of the type that was fueled with low pressure biogas (product of pig manure digestion at communal farms). Note gas bag instead of high pressure tanks on roof. S (See attached file: chinagas.jpg) Sam Zimmerman Senior Urban Transport Specialist Energy, Transport, Water Dept. 1818 H Street N.W. Washington, D.C. 20433 Phone Numbers: Office: (202) 473-5399 Mobile: (703) 835-4124 Please visit the World Bank Urban Transport website @: http://www.worldbank.org/urbantransport "Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory" Walter Hook cc 04/16/2008 11:31 AM 'Jonathan Richmond' , UTSG@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, 'Sustran List' Please respond to , edelman@greenidea.e 'PLANET' u , szimmerman@worldbank.org, iclei-africa@iclei.org, philippe_attey@yahoo.fr, uatp@uitp.com, POURBAIX Jerome Subject Re: [sustran] Re: Bus purchase help needed [in Mauritius] Hi Jonathan, Your specifications mention nothing about type of engine/fuel source. What Walter said is true, but if you get all those things right what is the point if the fuel prices make the resulting ticket unaffordable and/or make it less interesting in comparison into a car? Both your Ministry and the NTC are members of UITP, and I am wondering if you have discussed fuel sources with them. Also, Moka Flacq plus Pamplemousses and Riviere du Rempart are members of ICLEI and might be able to get some advice or assistance and information about best practice from them. ICLEI, at least in Europe, is involved in a biofuel project. See www.biofuel-cities.eu I personally favour biogas from waste. Maybe you know all about it -- if so please forgive the following. If you have the proper and right mixture of feedstock for it (agricultural and household waste, sewerage waste, etc.) and can get it to a biogas reactor easily, then it could be the way to go. Start up costs are certainly higher than with petrol Diesel (the reactors plus the buses) but you will have a lot more control of and be able to predict fuel prices and availability then with petrol products. It seems to me like an island would like to have energy independence. There are several European biogas projects right now, such as www.biogasmax.com, but you can also just Google for biogas and transport. Most of the projects you will find involve small consumer biogas projects for cooking to larger scale projects for making electricity. For transport, biogas is more efficient if used for making electricity, but if you don't have electric vehicles... There also might be some EU projects which Mauritius can join, but it seems you might be working for a solution in the near-term. The GDP of your island is high in relation to the rest of Africa; you know better than I if you are a target country for development assistance. Sweden and also Germany are quite active in biogas development, especially Sweden for biogas buses. Let me know offlist if you want some more info. As you can see I have copied this email to people at ICLEI and UITP (again, please forgive me if it is redundant information). Kind regards, T Walter Hook wrote: > As this is a straight public sector bus procurement, you should check with > someone at FTA or with FTA experience. I am cc'ing sam Zimmerman now at the > world bank who might have a better idea. Certainly close dialog with the > operators is critical to understand the specific bus needs of the drive > cycle in Marituius, not sure what your roads are like or how low floor will > perform in those conditions. Certainly tests for anything new should be > done. > > The track record for bus maintenance for public transport authorities in > Africa is pretty weak, security of the fleet from spare part theft, > contracts w/ the manufacturer for ongoing maintenance, perhaps contracting > out operations, with liability for the vehicle passing on to the operator, > etc, I should think are more serious concerns than the bus procurement > itself. > > -----Original Message----- > From: sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf > Of Jonathan Richmond > Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 5:20 AM > To: UTSG@JISCMAIL.AC.UK; Sustran List; PLANET > Subject: [sustran] Bus purchase help needed > > > Sorry to bother the more academic members of these lists, but I have been > grateful for some wonderfully helpful suggestions when posing previous > practical questions here -- so, here goes again! > > I need some help over bus purchases. The bus fleet here in Mauritius is of > very low quality: almost entirely with high floors, many steps to climb, > only one door -- slowing down entry and exit -- and no aircon. > > We are looking at ways to replace the total public and private sector > fleets of 2500 buses and are planning to do an initial procurement > exercise for the public bus company, National Transport Corporation, > ordering perhaps one hundred buses. > > We do not have the necessary expertise in writing the tender documents or > supervising the tender process. We are therefore using a fast-track tender > process to invite proposals to help us with this. > > > The requirements are: > > Conduct a brief analysis of operating requirements of Mauritius bus > operators and bus specifications required by the regulatory system > > Design a technical specification for low-floor, airconditioned buses > that > includes bus body specification, air con specification and passenger > safety. > > Finalize tender documents for procurement exercise. > > Provide a detailed study on the proposals submitted from each > tenderer, > with recommendations. > > Maintain contuct with tender winner to ensure prototype bus meeds > agreed > specifications. > > Conduct acceptance test before serial production. > > Develop maintenance regimes and design and deliver maintenane > handbook. > > Develop and implement essential training programs on maintenance. > > > The budget limit for fast-track tendering is 5 million Maurituan rs. > (US $193,800). All costs, inclusing cost of travel must be included in a > proposal that is no more than this amount. > > If any of you are qualified and interested to do this, please do get in > touch. Also, if you know others who might be interested, please pass this > on to them. > > Many thanks!!! > > --Jonathan! > > ----- > Jonathan Richmond > Transport Adviser to the Government of Mauritius > Ministry of Public Infrastructure, Land Transport and Shipping > New Government Centre, Level 4 > Port Louis > Mauritius > > +230 707-1134 (Mauritius mobile: most reliable way to reach me) > > +1 (617) 395-4360 (US phone number rings at home -- call me in > Mauritius for the price of a call to the US). > > +44 (0)7978 807532 (UK mobile number, connects to mobile phone when in > wifi zone, or goes to voice mail). This is also a SIP number. If you > have a SIP phone you can reach me by dialing: sip:447978807532@truphone.com > > e-mail: richmond@alum.mit.edu > http://the-tech.mit.edu/~richmond/ > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join > the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups > version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real > sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). > Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). > > -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunni 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic Skype: toddedelman ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 edelman@greenidea.eu http://greenideafactory.blogspot.com/ www.flickr.com/photos/edelman Green Idea Factory is a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net CAR is over. If you WANT it. From edelman at greenidea.eu Thu Apr 17 11:51:17 2008 From: edelman at greenidea.eu (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 04:51:17 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Re: Bus purchase help needed [in Mauritius] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4806BB25.7060107@greenidea.eu> ... and here is a image of Bern's bagless biogas bus: - T szimmerman@worldbank.org wrote: > An image of a Chinese bus of the type that was fueled with low pressure biogas > (product of pig manure digestion at communal farms). Note gas bag instead of > high pressure tanks on roof. S > > (See attached file: chinagas.jpg) > > > Sam Zimmerman > Senior Urban Transport Specialist > Energy, Transport, Water Dept. > 1818 H Street N.W. > Washington, D.C. 20433 > Phone Numbers: > Office: (202) 473-5399 > Mobile: (703) 835-4124 > > Please visit the World Bank Urban Transport website @: > http://www.worldbank.org/urbantransport > > > > > > "Todd Edelman, > Green Idea Factory" > eu> Walter Hook > cc > 04/16/2008 11:31 AM 'Jonathan Richmond' > , > UTSG@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, 'Sustran List' > Please respond to , > edelman@greenidea.e 'PLANET' > u , > szimmerman@worldbank.org, > iclei-africa@iclei.org, > philippe_attey@yahoo.fr, > uatp@uitp.com, POURBAIX Jerome > > Subject > Re: [sustran] Re: Bus purchase help > needed [in Mauritius] > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Jonathan, > > Your specifications mention nothing about type of engine/fuel source. > What Walter said is true, but if you get all those things right what is > the point if the fuel prices make the resulting ticket unaffordable > and/or make it less interesting in comparison into a car? > > Both your Ministry and the NTC are members of UITP, and I am wondering > if you have discussed fuel sources with them. Also, Moka Flacq plus > Pamplemousses and Riviere du Rempart are members of ICLEI and might be > able to get some advice or assistance and information about best > practice from them. ICLEI, at least in Europe, is involved in a biofuel > project. See www.biofuel-cities.eu > > I personally favour biogas from waste. Maybe you know all about it -- if > so please forgive the following. If you have the proper and right > mixture of feedstock for it (agricultural and household waste, sewerage > waste, etc.) and can get it to a biogas reactor easily, then it could be > the way to go. Start up costs are certainly higher than with petrol > Diesel (the reactors plus the buses) but you will have a lot more > control of and be able to predict fuel prices and availability then with > petrol products. It seems to me like an island would like to have energy > independence. > > There are several European biogas projects right now, such as > www.biogasmax.com, but you can also just Google for biogas and > transport. Most of the projects you will find involve small consumer > biogas projects for cooking to larger scale projects for making > electricity. For transport, biogas is more efficient if used for making > electricity, but if you don't have electric vehicles... > > There also might be some EU projects which Mauritius can join, but it > seems you might be working for a solution in the near-term. The GDP of > your island is high in relation to the rest of Africa; you know better > than I if you are a target country for development assistance. Sweden > and also Germany are quite active in biogas development, especially > Sweden for biogas buses. > > Let me know offlist if you want some more info. As you can see I have > copied this email to people at ICLEI and UITP (again, please forgive me > if it is redundant information). > > Kind regards, > T > > > > Walter Hook wrote: > >> As this is a straight public sector bus procurement, you should check with >> someone at FTA or with FTA experience. I am cc'ing sam Zimmerman now at the >> world bank who might have a better idea. Certainly close dialog with the >> operators is critical to understand the specific bus needs of the drive >> cycle in Marituius, not sure what your roads are like or how low floor will >> perform in those conditions. Certainly tests for anything new should be >> done. >> >> The track record for bus maintenance for public transport authorities in >> Africa is pretty weak, security of the fleet from spare part theft, >> contracts w/ the manufacturer for ongoing maintenance, perhaps contracting >> out operations, with liability for the vehicle passing on to the operator, >> etc, I should think are more serious concerns than the bus procurement >> itself. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org >> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf >> Of Jonathan Richmond >> Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 5:20 AM >> To: UTSG@JISCMAIL.AC.UK; Sustran List; PLANET >> Subject: [sustran] Bus purchase help needed >> >> >> Sorry to bother the more academic members of these lists, but I have been >> grateful for some wonderfully helpful suggestions when posing previous >> practical questions here -- so, here goes again! >> >> I need some help over bus purchases. The bus fleet here in Mauritius is of >> very low quality: almost entirely with high floors, many steps to climb, >> only one door -- slowing down entry and exit -- and no aircon. >> >> We are looking at ways to replace the total public and private sector >> fleets of 2500 buses and are planning to do an initial procurement >> exercise for the public bus company, National Transport Corporation, >> ordering perhaps one hundred buses. >> >> We do not have the necessary expertise in writing the tender documents or >> supervising the tender process. We are therefore using a fast-track tender >> process to invite proposals to help us with this. >> >> >> The requirements are: >> >> Conduct a brief analysis of operating requirements of Mauritius bus >> operators and bus specifications required by the regulatory system >> >> Design a technical specification for low-floor, airconditioned >> > buses > >> that >> includes bus body specification, air con specification and >> > passenger > >> safety. >> >> Finalize tender documents for procurement exercise. >> >> Provide a detailed study on the proposals submitted from each >> tenderer, >> with recommendations. >> >> Maintain contuct with tender winner to ensure prototype bus meeds >> agreed >> specifications. >> >> Conduct acceptance test before serial production. >> >> Develop maintenance regimes and design and deliver maintenane >> handbook. >> >> Develop and implement essential training programs on maintenance. >> >> >> The budget limit for fast-track tendering is 5 million Maurituan rs. >> (US $193,800). All costs, inclusing cost of travel must be included in a >> proposal that is no more than this amount. >> >> If any of you are qualified and interested to do this, please do get in >> touch. Also, if you know others who might be interested, please pass this >> on to them. >> >> Many thanks!!! >> >> --Jonathan! >> >> ----- >> Jonathan Richmond >> Transport Adviser to the Government of Mauritius >> Ministry of Public Infrastructure, Land Transport and Shipping >> New Government Centre, Level 4 >> Port Louis >> Mauritius >> >> +230 707-1134 (Mauritius mobile: most reliable way to reach me) >> >> +1 (617) 395-4360 (US phone number rings at home -- call me in >> Mauritius for the price of a call to the US). >> >> +44 (0)7978 807532 (UK mobile number, connects to mobile phone when in >> wifi zone, or goes to voice mail). This is also a SIP number. If you >> have a SIP phone you can reach me by dialing: sip:447978807532@truphone.com >> >> e-mail: richmond@alum.mit.edu >> http://the-tech.mit.edu/~richmond/ >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via >> YAHOOGROUPS. >> >> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join >> the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups >> version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real >> sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). >> Apologies for the confusing arrangement. >> >> ================================================================ >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries >> (the 'Global South'). >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. >> >> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join >> > the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version > is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss > (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the > confusing arrangement. > >> ================================================================ >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable >> > and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global > South'). > >> > > > -- > -------------------------------------------- > > Todd Edelman > Director > Green Idea Factory > > Korunni 72 > CZ-10100 Praha 10 > Czech Republic > > Skype: toddedelman > ++420 605 915 970 > ++420 222 517 832 > > edelman@greenidea.eu > http://greenideafactory.blogspot.com/ > www.flickr.com/photos/edelman > > Green Idea Factory is a member of World Carfree Network > www.worldcarfree.net > > CAR is over. If you WANT it. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunni 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic Skype: toddedelman ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 edelman@greenidea.eu http://greenideafactory.blogspot.com/ www.flickr.com/photos/edelman Green Idea Factory is a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net CAR is over. If you WANT it. From yanivbin at gmail.com Sun Apr 20 15:13:43 2008 From: yanivbin at gmail.com (Vinay Baindur) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 11:43:43 +0530 Subject: [sustran] India NUTP, NURM, NMT & pedestrianisation In-Reply-To: <86b8a7050804192248qdd7e140he7cb68518fef5294@mail.gmail.com> References: <86b8a7050804192248qdd7e140he7cb68518fef5294@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <86b8a7050804192313n4c40ce13gfb5d16fa572081b2@mail.gmail.com> please fwd attachments if possible *NURM DIKTATs on NUTP are now linked to Pedestrianisation, and Cycling paths & **ROAD WIDENING *(attached & url link below)*. All letters addresed to the Chief Secy of all states / UTs All this has happened during the last one year or so and this has repurcussions for funding and getting our grievances heard. Many initiatives are being taken up all over the country but need coordination to see that they will be established HYDERABAD, PUNE, BANGALORE MYSORE *http://urbanindia.nic.in/moud/programme/ut/main.htm* All new road widening project will have to deploy a new lane reserved for Public Transport (mainly buses) in the design and one for NMT and cycling lane MANDATORILY. HOW it is implemented now will be upto our joint initiatives? *cheers Vinay HOW From paulbarter at nus.edu.sg Tue Apr 22 17:51:07 2008 From: paulbarter at nus.edu.sg (Paul Barter) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 16:51:07 +0800 Subject: [sustran] Delhi's BRT project in trouble? Message-ID: Will Delhi's BRT be given a chance to prove itself? Bad press and teething problems seem to be putting Delhi's ambitious BRT plans in danger. Delhi's BRT pilot phase has entered a trial period since Sunday. The first 5.6 km is due to start formally on 1 May. Unfortunately press coverage of the project continues to be extremely hostile. Reading some of the articles on this in the Indian media one could be forgiven for thinking that Delhi's entire congestion problem is caused by 5.6 km of busway. All this looks worrying for Delhi's BRT. If politicians cave in and abandon the project now it would be a huge setback for public transport in India. Read more of this article at http://reinventingtransport.blogspot.com/ ----------------------------------- I am sure some of you know more about Delhi's BRT than I do. Can it be rescued? Will the teething problems settle down before the politicians lose their backbone to support it? Was it a mistake to begin with such a challenging corridor? Will this episode give BRT a bad name in India as a whole and threaten even the Ahmedabad project, even though that project is for a much higher-end BRT system? From yanivbin at gmail.com Tue Apr 22 17:59:35 2008 From: yanivbin at gmail.com (Vinay Baindur) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:29:35 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: Delhi's BRT project in trouble? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86b8a7050804220159k65cebee2n2d2a755a6a4de77a@mail.gmail.com> Its all about who gets the voice in the Media and do the bus travelers need to become a lobby , just like any of the other lobbies We need to see the vernacular / hindi print and electronic media for that coverage I guess But it can leak out somewhere that indeed BRT is meant to enforce the dedicated lane for buses and give over 50 % of the commuters PRIORITY Vinay On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 2:21 PM, Paul Barter wrote: > Will Delhi's BRT be given a chance to prove itself? > > Bad press and teething problems seem to be putting Delhi's ambitious BRT > plans in danger. > > Delhi's BRT pilot phase has entered a trial period since Sunday. The > first 5.6 km is due to start formally on 1 May. > > Unfortunately press coverage of the project continues to be extremely > hostile. Reading some of the articles on this in the Indian media one > could be forgiven for thinking that Delhi's entire congestion problem is > caused by 5.6 km of busway. > > All this looks worrying for Delhi's BRT. If politicians cave in and > abandon the project now it would be a huge setback for public transport > in India. > > Read more of this article at http://reinventingtransport.blogspot.com/ > ----------------------------------- > > I am sure some of you know more about Delhi's BRT than I do. > > Can it be rescued? Will the teething problems settle down before the > politicians lose their backbone to support it? Was it a mistake to begin > with such a challenging corridor? Will this episode give BRT a bad name > in India as a whole and threaten even the Ahmedabad project, even though > that project is for a much higher-end BRT system? > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to > join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The > yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the > real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you > can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > From rajendra_media at yahoo.com Tue Apr 22 15:42:21 2008 From: rajendra_media at yahoo.com (Rajendra A (HindustanTimes)) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 23:42:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sustran] Make room for cycles, urges India's govt Message-ID: <414780.53866.qm@web65510.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Make room for cycles, urges Centre Dedicated lanes for pedestrians, pedal pushers recommended in new urban road projects Rajendra Aklekar Mumbai, April 12 IN AN environment friendly move to promote non-powered modes of transport, the Union Ministry of Urban Development has recommended dedicated paths for pedestrians and bicycles in new projects. A letter to the chief secretaries of all states sent by M. Ramachandran, secretary to the Government of India, underlines the importance of congestion-free, nonpolluting transport. It said: "Every public transport user is a pedestrian and no public transport trip is complete without a pedestrian trip. Pedestrians and cyclists use the least space on the road and are the most environment friendly modes of transport. Whatever roads are being built, new or widened, enough provision should be made for dedicated paths for pedestrians and cycle users. "Such provision should be made available wherever possible and if not then the speed of mo torised traffic should be limited to 30 kmph." The letter, a copy of which is with the Hindustan Times, goes on to add that while preparing the master plan, it would be desirable to incorporate a network of tracks for safe cycling between homes and schools and work centres. "Even flyovers that are being constructed should have proper design for taking care of pedestrians and cyclists," said the letter. A Transport ministry official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said they would examine where the tracks could be incorporated in new projects. "Such tracks can be kept only where there is lots of space. Mumbai is overcrowded. We will implement the recommendations where possible, but experience tells us such tracks become places for hawkers and not many use cycles," a Mumbai Metropolitan Region Development Authority official said on condition of anonymity. rajendra.aklekar@hindustantimes.com CYCLING, FAR AND NEAR UNITED KINGDOM The UK has a popular National Cycle Network. It offers over 19,200 km of walking and cycle routes; 75 per cent of the UK population now lives within 3.2 km of such routes. The network connects towns and villages, countryside and coast throughout the United Kingdom. IN INDIA NAVI MUMBAI The planners of Navi Mumbai had built dedicated tracks for bicyclists, but as time passed hawkers took them over. PUNE The Global Environment Facility of the United Nations this week approved a proposal to develop 89.6 km of bicycle tracks on roads connecting the Pune Municipal Corporation's Bus Rapid Transit System. The Global Environment Facility is an independent financial organisation that provides grants to developing countries for projects that benefit the global environment. AHMEDABAD The Ahmedabad Municipal Corporation plans exclusive bicycle tracks on the Bus Rapid Transit System route to be functional by 2009. The cycle tracks will be along the footpath and have a width of 2 to 2.5 metres on the Bus Rapid Transit System routes. The tracks will come up on both the first and second phase routes, wherever road dimensions permit. --- Rajendra Aklekar Principal Correspondent, Transport Hindustan Times, Mumbai HT Media Limited -- 140-4752, Nehru Nagar Mumbai, 400024 Mobile: +91 9892 190 761 Office: 66539200 Fax: 66539250/60 --- ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From christopher.hanacek at iiid.net Wed Apr 23 05:12:13 2008 From: christopher.hanacek at iiid.net (Christopher Hanacek-Schubert) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 22:12:13 +0200 Subject: [sustran] =?iso-8859-15?Q?Expert_Forum_Traffic_Guiding_Systems_20?= =?iso-8859-15?Q?08_--_Call_for_Speakers?= Message-ID: <480E469D.7090800@iiid.net> The *International Institute for Information Design (IIID)* in Vienna is organizing a top-notch event this year in connection with *sustainable public transportation* entitled "*Infoconnectivity* - Intertwined information for interconnected transport networks". The idea behind this expert forum: The effectiveness of public transport information often depends on how long it takes to change between different modes of transport -- the quicker and the more efficient, the better for passengers, tourists or staff, in short: everyone. Down-time should be reduced to an absolute minimum. However, if this so-called "inter-connectivity" between transport networks is to be enhanced, it is vital to focus on measures of improving information-connectivity (infoconnectivity) between service providers in the area of public transport. IIID is still looking for speakers who are willing, eager and competent to speak at this international event. Information on the event and our "Call for Speakers" are posted below. Event and call details are also available at http://www.iiid-expertforum.net . For further information you may also call the Head of Public Relations at IIID, C. Hanacek-Schubert at christopher.hanacek@iiid.net . ........................... *Call for Speakers* *IIID Expert Forum Transport Guiding Systems 2008:* *Infoconnectivity * /Intertwined information for interconnected transport networks/ 4/5 September 2008 Tech Gate Vienna, Austria _Organizer:_ International Institute for Information Design (IIID) Call for Speakers submission deadline: 11 June 2008 http://www.iiid-expertforum.net From carlosfpardo at gmail.com Wed Apr 23 12:32:16 2008 From: carlosfpardo at gmail.com (Carlosfelipe Pardo) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 11:32:16 +0800 Subject: [sustran] Re: Make room for cycles, urges India's govt In-Reply-To: <414780.53866.qm@web65510.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <414780.53866.qm@web65510.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <480EADC0.8040107@gmail.com> Thanks for this info. It's funny to read the statement which says >"Such tracks can be kept only where there is lots of space. Mumbai is overcrowded....experience tells us such >tracks become places hawkers and not many use cycles," Regarding space availability, I was once in Mumbai and, at least where I saw, there is plenty of space for pedestrians, bicycles, and even pedestrian islands (the attached may prove my point, and show the current situation for pedestrians). Maybe the point of view of the official assumes that the space needed would be additional to that currently used for motorized vehicles. Again, the typical expression of "we are afraid it will be chaos if we take that space away", and the underlying assumption that what is needed is more infrastructure supply to relieve congestion. Another example, which I may have mentioned: In the initial designs of the BRT for Bangkok, some of the engineers designed the stations, the exclusive lanes and the car lanes, but thought there was no space for a sidewalk, so did not include them in the design. Once one of the project managers asked them who would ride the BRT, he had the insight that pedestrians are the main customers of the BRT... it was a big issue to regain some space for pedestrians, since traffic police need to approve it. Thankfully, the current designs include sidewalks. Best regards, Carlos. Rajendra A (HindustanTimes) wrote: > Make room for cycles, urges Centre > Dedicated lanes for pedestrians, pedal pushers recommended in new > urban road projects > Rajendra Aklekar > Mumbai, April 12 > > IN AN environment friendly move to promote non-powered modes of > transport, the Union Ministry of > Urban Development has recommended dedicated paths for pedestrians and > bicycles in new projects. > A letter to the chief secretaries of all states sent by M. > Ramachandran, secretary to the > Government of India, underlines the importance of congestion-free, > nonpolluting transport. > > It said: "Every public transport user is a pedestrian and no public > transport trip is complete > without a pedestrian trip. Pedestrians and cyclists use the least space > on the road and are the > most environment friendly modes of transport. Whatever roads are being > built, new or widened, > enough provision should be made for dedicated paths for pedestrians and > cycle users. > > "Such provision should be made available wherever possible and if not > then the speed of mo torised > traffic should be limited to 30 kmph." > > The letter, a copy of which is with the Hindustan Times, goes on to add > that while preparing the > master plan, it would be desirable to incorporate a network of tracks > for safe cycling between > homes and schools and work centres. > > "Even flyovers that are being constructed should have proper design for > taking care of pedestrians > and cyclists," said the letter. > > A Transport ministry official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said > they would examine where > the tracks could be incorporated in new projects. > > "Such tracks can be kept only where there is lots of space. Mumbai is > overcrowded. We will > implement the recommendations where possible, but experience tells us > such tracks become places > for hawkers and not many use cycles," a Mumbai Metropolitan Region > Development Authority official > said on condition of anonymity. > > rajendra.aklekar@hindustantimes.com > > CYCLING, FAR AND NEAR > > UNITED KINGDOM > The UK has a popular National Cycle Network. It offers over 19,200 km > of walking and cycle routes; > 75 per cent of the UK population now lives within 3.2 km of such > routes. The network connects > towns and villages, countryside and coast throughout the United > Kingdom. > > IN INDIA > > NAVI MUMBAI > The planners of Navi Mumbai had built dedicated tracks for bicyclists, > but as time passed hawkers > took them over. > > PUNE > The Global Environment Facility of the United Nations this week > approved a proposal to develop > 89.6 km of bicycle tracks on roads connecting the Pune Municipal > Corporation's Bus Rapid Transit > System. The Global Environment Facility is an independent financial > organisation that provides > grants to developing countries for projects that benefit the global > environment. > > AHMEDABAD The Ahmedabad Municipal Corporation plans exclusive bicycle > tracks on the Bus Rapid > Transit System route to be functional by 2009. The cycle tracks will be > along the footpath and > have a width of 2 to 2.5 metres on the Bus Rapid Transit System routes. > The tracks will come up on > both the first and second phase routes, wherever road dimensions > permit. > > > --- > Rajendra Aklekar > Principal Correspondent, Transport > Hindustan Times, Mumbai > HT Media Limited > -- > 140-4752, Nehru Nagar > Mumbai, 400024 > > Mobile: +91 9892 190 761 > Office: 66539200 > Fax: 66539250/60 > --- > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). > > From sujitjp at gmail.com Wed Apr 23 22:06:18 2008 From: sujitjp at gmail.com (Sujit Patwardhan) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:36:18 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: Delhi's BRT project in trouble? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4cfd20aa0804230606s462ec74fndd8914105727e417@mail.gmail.com> For the last month of more, the media led by Times of India Delhi Edition (other papers have also been critical) have been conducting an anti-BRT campaign. Most of the criticism is about the traffic indiscipline and not about BRT per se but readers (not experts on BRT) get confused. My responses defending the BRT sent to the editor have been ignored and not published. I feel this is largely on account of the fact that Delhi administration and promoters of BRT have not taken up a major Public Awareness drive. Pune the city that inaugurated an incomplete BRT for political reasons, has been suffering similarly. However, BRT commuters have been praising the system and saying it should be implemented on many more corridors. It may be a good strategy to do a study of commuters to see their reactions and the real benefits they received from the BRT system. In Pune the commuters have been supportive and that has helped the city to see the picture in a larger framework, though much needs to be done. As for Ahmedabad, they are building a closed system. That certainly looks more attractive but needs feeder buses and frequent changes. It may not be the best system for India I fear. Anyway we hope Delhi BRT starts showing some positive improvement. There is a positive editorial in Business Standard today which I will forward to you. With warm regards, -- Sujit On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 2:21 PM, Paul Barter wrote: > Will Delhi's BRT be given a chance to prove itself? > > Bad press and teething problems seem to be putting Delhi's ambitious BRT > plans in danger. > > Delhi's BRT pilot phase has entered a trial period since Sunday. The > first 5.6 km is due to start formally on 1 May. > > Unfortunately press coverage of the project continues to be extremely > hostile. Reading some of the articles on this in the Indian media one > could be forgiven for thinking that Delhi's entire congestion problem is > caused by 5.6 km of busway. > > All this looks worrying for Delhi's BRT. If politicians cave in and > abandon the project now it would be a huge setback for public transport > in India. > > Read more of this article at http://reinventingtransport.blogspot.com/ > ----------------------------------- > > I am sure some of you know more about Delhi's BRT than I do. > > Can it be rescued? Will the teething problems settle down before the > politicians lose their backbone to support it? Was it a mistake to begin > with such a challenging corridor? Will this episode give BRT a bad name > in India as a whole and threaten even the Ahmedabad project, even though > that project is for a much higher-end BRT system? > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to > join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The > yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the > real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you > can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > -- ------------------------------------------------------ Sujit Patwardhan sujitjp@gmail.com "Yamuna", ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007 India Tel: +91 20 25537955 Cell: +91 98220 26627 ----------------------------------------------------- Hon. Secretary: Parisar www.parisar.org ------------------------------------------------------ Founder Member: PTTF (Pune Traffic & Transportation Forum) www.pttf.net ------------------------------------------------------ From edelman at greenidea.eu Thu Apr 24 00:55:44 2008 From: edelman at greenidea.eu (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:55:44 +0200 Subject: [sustran] (Self-Harming) Adverts: Bus vs. Car or Bus not vs. Bike? Message-ID: <480F5C00.9040404@greenidea.eu> Hi! One of the most infamous anti-public transport adverts ever has gets the love treatment... See From there you can also find links for my continuing series "Self-Harming Adverts on Public Transport" including new contributions from/about Beijing, Berlin, Bogota, Buenos Aires and Tallinn. Thanks to old and new contributors. -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunni 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic Skype: toddedelman ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 edelman@greenidea.eu http://greenideafactory.blogspot.com/ www.flickr.com/photos/edelman Green Idea Factory is a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net CAR is over. If you WANT it. From carlosfpardo at gmail.com Thu Apr 24 14:03:28 2008 From: carlosfpardo at gmail.com (Carlosfelipe Pardo) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 13:03:28 +0800 Subject: [sustran] Re: Delhi's BRT project in trouble? In-Reply-To: <4cfd20aa0804230606s462ec74fndd8914105727e417@mail.gmail.com> References: <4cfd20aa0804230606s462ec74fndd8914105727e417@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <481014A0.4090805@gmail.com> Sujit and all, It is very interesting to see that, in the articles talking about Delhi's BRT, they are emphasizing on the 1 hour to travel 5.8km in the morning, but few is said about the 19 minutes taken on the same route in the afternoon! As has been said by many in the past few days, it's all about how to get the media to be a positive stakeholder and, at the same time, sell more newspapers, etc. I think it's not so much about a "conspiracy against BRT". There's more because they love the scandal (it sells more), and scandals about BRTs are not so difficult to find: if a pedestrian is injured by the BRT, despite thousands are injured every day in India by cars and motorcycles, then the BRT is the bad guy. Ideas on how to reverse this tendency are welcome... though I think it's what many sectors are struggling with the media about, with not much luck. However, work on public awareness and providing good press releases and inviting the press to lunch, dinner, etc sometimes have good results. Best regards, Carlos. Sujit Patwardhan wrote: > For the last month of more, the media led by Times of India Delhi Edition > (other papers have also been critical) have been conducting an anti-BRT > campaign. Most of the criticism is about the traffic indiscipline and not > about BRT per se but readers (not experts on BRT) get confused. My responses > defending the BRT sent to the editor have been ignored and not published. > > I feel this is largely on account of the fact that Delhi administration and > promoters of BRT have not taken up a major Public Awareness drive. Pune the > city that inaugurated an incomplete BRT for political reasons, has been > suffering similarly. However, BRT commuters have been praising the system > and saying it should be implemented on many more corridors. It may be a good > strategy to do a study of commuters to see their reactions and the real > benefits they received from the BRT system. In Pune the commuters have been > supportive and that has helped the city to see the picture in a larger > framework, though much needs to be done. > > As for Ahmedabad, they are building a closed system. That certainly looks > more attractive but needs feeder buses and frequent changes. It may not be > the best system for India I fear. > > Anyway we hope Delhi BRT starts showing some positive improvement. There is > a positive editorial in Business Standard today which I will forward to you. > > With warm regards, > -- > Sujit > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 2:21 PM, Paul Barter wrote: > > >> Will Delhi's BRT be given a chance to prove itself? >> >> Bad press and teething problems seem to be putting Delhi's ambitious BRT >> plans in danger. >> >> Delhi's BRT pilot phase has entered a trial period since Sunday. The >> first 5.6 km is due to start formally on 1 May. >> >> Unfortunately press coverage of the project continues to be extremely >> hostile. Reading some of the articles on this in the Indian media one >> could be forgiven for thinking that Delhi's entire congestion problem is >> caused by 5.6 km of busway. >> >> All this looks worrying for Delhi's BRT. If politicians cave in and >> abandon the project now it would be a huge setback for public transport >> in India. >> >> Read more of this article at http://reinventingtransport.blogspot.com/ >> ----------------------------------- >> >> I am sure some of you know more about Delhi's BRT than I do. >> >> Can it be rescued? Will the teething problems settle down before the >> politicians lose their backbone to support it? Was it a mistake to begin >> with such a challenging corridor? Will this episode give BRT a bad name >> in India as a whole and threaten even the Ahmedabad project, even though >> that project is for a much higher-end BRT system? >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via >> YAHOOGROUPS. >> >> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to >> join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The >> yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the >> real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you >> can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. >> >> ================================================================ >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries >> (the 'Global South'). >> >> > > > > From sujitjp at gmail.com Fri Apr 25 16:41:30 2008 From: sujitjp at gmail.com (Sujit Patwardhan) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:11:30 +0530 Subject: [sustran] BRTS in Delhi In-Reply-To: <4cfd20aa0804250038k343da7cama026aaa2bfe99972@mail.gmail.com> References: <4cfd20aa0804250038k343da7cama026aaa2bfe99972@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4cfd20aa0804250041n56b7aca1td97093e8cd486d3c@mail.gmail.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Sujit Patwardhan Date: Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 1:08 PM Subject: Re: [pttfgen:1409] BRTS in Delhi To: pttfgen@googlegroups.com 25 April 2008 BRT in Delhi ========= Yes problems galore and I've been following the reports in the media including the CNN IBN that Ashok Datar was to appear on, but didn't for some reason. My take on all this is as follows: Deterioration in traffic has been an ongoing process in many Asian cities for the last 3 decades or more. Like the frog sitting in a beaker of water being slowly heated it has not had an occasion to "explode". Metro was taken up and executed brilliantly by Mr. E Sridharan, with attention to the minutest detail and a free hand guaranteeing "no interference" from politicians. On top of that every lapse and overshooting of budgets as well as abysmally poor ridership compared to the projected figures was pardoned by a supportive Govt and compensated from additional funds made available without delay and cloaked in secrecy. *Delhi Metro project is a marketing triumph that fills every Indian's chest with pride*. However, how much travel-coverage (as Public Transport) the very expensive Metro will be able to provide is a big question mark. There is also the real possibility that the amount spent on the Metro represents lost opportunity for other investments - like libraries and cultural centres, gardens, public spaces and other amenities needed by the city. *But in the final analysis we should accept that the Metro is pubic transport and hence we must support it* unlike the eight lane highways, flyovers, multistory car parks and other infrastructures being *routinely provided by the city as subsidy to ever growing number of car and 2 wheeler owners at the cost of other more efficient modes of travel.* BRT unlike the Metro has to deal with the existing conditions on our roads. Of indiscipline, rampant irregularities, encroachments, poor engineering, lack of understanding about the rights of pedestrians, cyclists and non personal auto users. So if the road surface is poor BRT is blamed, if drivers are indisciplined BRT is blamed, if a car stalls in the MV lane and clogs up the traffic it is perceived as a problem caused by the BRT. If the BRT lanes look empty (as indeed they will - considering each bus carries many more people), it is seen as waste of an expensive resource -- although not many of these critics complained much all these years about the *wasteful use of resources when low occupancy cars filled up these very roads* - well before BRT appeared on the scene. So it is clear that BRT planning should have been rooted in outreach and marketing it as a concept that will improve mobility (of people as against just near-empty personal vehicles), will greatly improve access for people who are today helpless captive users of uncomfortable and outdated buses, it will provide an option to those who are forced to use personal transport, not necessarily out of choice but compulsion, and as benefits of a growing BRT network becomes visible and better, more comfortable and even A/C buses start plying on the BRT corridors, the higher middle class and even the rich will have no problem patronizing this mode for purely rational reasons of getting a faster, more punctual, comfortable and stress-free mode of travel. This indeed is the situation in many cities in Europe and while we have no qualms about importing western concepts (English medium education, wearing suits and tie however uncomfortable they may be in our weather, listening to western music, eating the big Mac (ughhh) and even importing Cheerleaders for our newly formed Cricket Series) why do we suddenly start protesting when our capital city tries to copy a Western/ Latin American idea of excellent bus system/BRT calling it a foreign concept?????? The need is to publicise wider benefits of public transport and to reach the *majority *of citizens who are users/potential users of *bus based public transport, cycling and walking* in the city. (It is they who will benefit most from a good BRT) It is this huge majority of commuters who will have the opportunity of breaking free from the shackles of our present horrendous conditions of urban traffic. So let's not worry too much about the high pitched screams coming from the pampered lot of car users (and to some extent from two wheelers) protesting against dedicated BRT lanes taking away *their* road space, and let's reach the gagged-majority who have been at the receiving end of the stick ever since our cities became car-dominated *and if necessary bring them on the roads to block the MV lanes and put the personal cars in their place. *Does this sound extreme? Not when contrasted with the obscene arrogant rant coming from Mr Chandan Mitra - representing the car lobby/media/politician clique on the recent CNN IBN TV report about the mess accompanying the BRT trials in Delhi. -- Sujit On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 10:35 AM, Abhay Patil wrote: > Looks like BRTS in Delhi has reached a flash point. From the visuals (CNN > IBN, newspapers) it looks like Delhi's implementation is no better than > Pune. Empty BRTS lanes, sloppy junctions, ordinary bus stops and so on. I > don't know what went amiss in the capital. Sheila Dixit has promised that > she would make an all out effort to remove the glitches in a few weeks. > Most important - she has said that she would not hesitate to drop the > project if they are unable to get their act together right away. > > On a positive note - everybody is looking at BRTS now. On a negative note > - it is appears to be quite a tall order to fix it. Given the ugly traffic > jams and vociferousness of folks like journalist MP Chandan Mitra - it is > quite likely that the baby would be thrown out with the bath water! And, > that would have serious repercussions on BRTS in other cities. I can not > imagine the cacophony that would ensue once that happens... > > -Abhay > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "PTTF General" group. > To post to this group, send email to pttfgen@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > pttfgen-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.co.in/group/pttfgen?hl=en > -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- > > -- ------------------------------------------------------ Sujit Patwardhan sujitjp@gmail.com "Yamuna", ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007 India Tel: +91 20 25537955 Cell: +91 98220 26627 ----------------------------------------------------- Hon. Secretary: Parisar www.parisar.org ------------------------------------------------------ Founder Member: PTTF (Pune Traffic & Transportation Forum) www.pttf.net ------------------------------------------------------ -- ------------------------------------------------------ Sujit Patwardhan sujitjp@gmail.com "Yamuna", ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007 India Tel: +91 20 25537955 Cell: +91 98220 26627 ----------------------------------------------------- Hon. Secretary: Parisar www.parisar.org ------------------------------------------------------ Founder Member: PTTF (Pune Traffic & Transportation Forum) www.pttf.net ------------------------------------------------------ From carlosfpardo at gmail.com Sat Apr 26 19:33:52 2008 From: carlosfpardo at gmail.com (Carlosfelipe Pardo) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 18:33:52 +0800 Subject: [sustran] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bogot=E1=27s_time_machine?= Message-ID: <48130510.7020006@gmail.com> Hi, There have been a lot of rumors regarding Bogot?'s "fate" in terms of transport, and a lot has happened in the last months. Some may be interested in knowing more about it. I will do my best to summarize the key issues of this "time machine" towards the past (I would say somewhere around the 80s) that our city has started to experience in terms of transport policy and practice. It's based on the latest "development" plan of the city, press announcements and a recent meeting I attended where the new Secretary of Mobility described their projects in some detail. If anyone would like to correct or add something, they're most welcome: *BRT and Metro*: As with Curitiba, many rail promoters are very interested in developing a rail system for Bogot?. This in itself isn't too bad. The bad thing is that one strategy has been to discredit the xistent BRT systems. This story is very long, so I won't get into it. For Bogot?, the current mayor won the elections partly because he promised to build a metro, and because the BRT's 6-people-per-square-meter operations had people doubting about its efficacy as a mass transit system. However, the mayor has never said (or maybe doesn't know) that a metro will have the same operation characteristics, but at a much higher cost. However, a bid for studies to develop the metro will be open soon (two weeks ago, 42 companies expressed their interest in taking part in such a study), financed with loans from development banks. In this regard, the World Bank has told the municipality clearly that they should be very careful about developing a rail system due to the known risks of such a system. At the same time, the mobility secretary has said "we cannot build more BRT (TransMilenio) because we have no more money". Strange but true...more about financing below. Regarding the BRT's operation and structure, they have also announced that they will "improve" operations, mainly by changing the financial structure and (see this!) possibly by changing the payment to operators by kilometers to another scheme (by passengers? that could take us 10 years back in just a couple of months). Finally, they have just announced that, on the "S?ptima" Avenue (where plans for BRT phase III had been fully designed already), they will build a "busway" (not a BRT, but a busway, like the one that proved that this scheme would not work in Bogot?, in the 1980s and 1990s). They said this will enhance the (fare) integration of the new integrated scheme they are proposing, which they say would be ready in one year. For such a scheme, IADB is providing a grant to the city. *Parking: *Last week, they have also announced that, due to congestion, cruising, and delivery truck problems, they will now "solve everything" by opening up parking bays in the city, AT NO COST. I told the Secretary of Mobility that this would just increase congestion if they didn't do a proper parking pricing policy, but he answered "I can't charge users for parking if I don't have good public transport"... Chicken and egg problem # 1. Further, one must note that sidewalks which were previously built are now being partially torn down by some shop owners, etc. Ah, but I have to be fair: cars can only park a maximum of 3 hours in the newly opened parking bays. *Roads and Highways: *Yet another idea of the current administration has been to say that, to solve the current deterioration of the current roads, they will build new roads with the "innovative model" of a concession. Yes, there is something strange here also: new roads to solve the deterioration of old roads. I suggested they concession the maintenance of the existing roads, and charge for their use while using the charge to invest in public transport and partially solve the financing problem described below. However, this wasn't seen as viable or useful or even logical. It's also relevant to note that, since they have started to prioritize traffic management, traffic police are now overriding red phases for intersections on the BRT and pushing cars to the limit of the intersection (yes, on top of the pedestrian crossing /zebra). *Bikeways: *When the Chamber of Commerce asked the Secretary of Mobility about the role of bicycles in the transport system, he said "I never thought a bicycle could be part of a transport system". However, he went on a trip to Europe to learn about transport measures, and his conclusion about bicycles was that they are only feasible to use in the Netherlands, where the average trip distance is 2km. Thus, Bogot? should not promote bicycles (despite the existent 340kms of fully segregated bikeways and its 8-fold increase in use since their implementation). *Land use*: The last related measure proposed is that they will build an intercity train. The argument the Secretary of Mobility has given is that "people want to live in suburbs and leave the noise and pollution of the city". That is, the city is inevitable noisy and filthy, so the people who can afford it should do their best to live as far away as possible... and the city must cater the needs of those oh unfortunate rich people. A lesson on equity. *Financing the system*: During elections, the candidate for mayor said he would finance all transport improvements (metro, road network) with the funds gathered from traffic violations (e.g. "tickets"). Now they have seen that this is not viable, so they say that all development banks are "begging" them to take a loan, which would be payable starting 2015... Also, they have reminded us that concession highways pay for themselves... *Politics*: As if the above were not enough to demonstrate how Bogot? will go back to the stone age in transport, there are also heavy political battles involved. In summary: any proposal that sounds like sustainable transport (livability, equity, less car use, more bicycles, more public transport) will be labeled "Pe?alosa" and they will say you come from his political party. Of course, under this administration all doors will be closed if you just mention that name, since he was the opposing candidate to the current mayor. I would also say that the current plans to stop further development of transmilenio and do busways is a deliberate attempt to stop any project that had to do with Pe?alosa, as if the development of a city had someone's name attached to it, the current Bogot? with wide sidewalks and bikeways is dubbed "Pe?alosa's city". And, since local GDP has increased significantly and USD exchange rate has dropped, everyone has/wants to have a car (loans are also pretty easy to get) and hates any anti-car measure. Ok, and for those who have heard about the Sunday carfree day (Ciclov?a) from 7am to 2pm, a congressman has proposed a law that will limit the time of the Ciclovia to 12 noon, and should start at 5am, despite the fact that at least 1million users are using the ciclov?a from 11 to 2pm. His argument: many people suffer from the congestion of those 117 km, and bikeways aren't used during that time (according to him). So, following this rationale, a recreational measure has to pay for the excessive car use in the city. That's it, in a nutshell. Sorry for the black hat, but I thought it would be useful to describe the status quo of Bogot?'s transport. If all goes as planned, we will be back in 1980 by the end of this administration, but we'll have the additional problems: a huge loan on an inexistent subway, unprecedented population of cars and motorcycles and the expected increased pollution, injuries, deaths in road accidents or from respiratory problems, and a dirty, inefficient and congested city. What to do? Comments are most welcome. Best regards, -- Carlosfelipe Pardo From bruun at seas.upenn.edu Sun Apr 27 09:49:45 2008 From: bruun at seas.upenn.edu (bruun at seas.upenn.edu) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 20:49:45 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: BRTS in Delhi In-Reply-To: <4cfd20aa0804250041n56b7aca1td97093e8cd486d3c@mail.gmail.com> References: <4cfd20aa0804250038k343da7cama026aaa2bfe99972@mail.gmail.com> <4cfd20aa0804250041n56b7aca1td97093e8cd486d3c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080426204945.4pom2nfw4kcowcs8@webmail.seas.upenn.edu> Sujit: What is the ridership of the Metro and how many kilometers are open now? Eric Bruun Quoting Sujit Patwardhan : > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Sujit Patwardhan > Date: Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 1:08 PM > Subject: Re: [pttfgen:1409] BRTS in Delhi > To: pttfgen@googlegroups.com > > > 25 April 2008 > > > BRT in Delhi > ========= > > Yes problems galore and I've been following the reports in the media > including the CNN IBN that Ashok Datar was to appear on, but didn't for some > reason. > > My take on all this is as follows: > > Deterioration in traffic has been an ongoing process in many Asian cities > for the last 3 decades or more. Like the frog sitting in a beaker of water > being slowly heated it has not had an occasion to "explode". Metro was taken > up and executed brilliantly by Mr. E Sridharan, with attention to the > minutest detail and a free hand guaranteeing "no interference" from > politicians. On top of that every lapse and overshooting of budgets as well > as abysmally poor ridership compared to the projected figures was pardoned > by a supportive Govt and compensated from additional funds made available > without delay and cloaked in secrecy. > > *Delhi Metro project is a marketing triumph that fills every Indian's chest > with pride*. However, how much travel-coverage (as Public Transport) the > very expensive Metro will be able to provide is a big question mark. There > is also the real possibility that the amount spent on the Metro represents > lost opportunity for other investments - like libraries and cultural > centres, gardens, public spaces and other amenities needed by the city. *But > in the final analysis we should accept that the Metro is pubic transport and > hence we must support it* unlike the eight lane highways, flyovers, > multistory car parks and other infrastructures being *routinely provided by > the city as subsidy to ever growing number of car and 2 wheeler owners at > the cost of other more efficient modes of travel.* > > BRT unlike the Metro has to deal with the existing conditions on our roads. > Of indiscipline, rampant irregularities, encroachments, poor engineering, > lack of understanding about the rights of pedestrians, cyclists and non > personal auto users. So if the road surface is poor BRT is blamed, if > drivers are indisciplined BRT is blamed, if a car stalls in the MV lane and > clogs up the traffic it is perceived as a problem caused by the BRT. If the > BRT lanes look empty (as indeed they will - considering each bus carries > many more people), it is seen as waste of an expensive resource -- although > not many of these critics complained much all these years about the *wasteful > use of resources when low occupancy cars filled up these very roads* - well > before BRT appeared on the scene. > > So it is clear that BRT planning should have been rooted in outreach and > marketing it as a concept that will improve mobility (of people as against > just near-empty personal vehicles), will greatly improve access for people > who are today helpless captive users of uncomfortable and outdated buses, it > will provide an option to those who are forced to use personal transport, > not necessarily out of choice but compulsion, and as benefits of a growing > BRT network becomes visible and better, more comfortable and even A/C buses > start plying on the BRT corridors, the higher middle class and even the rich > will have no problem patronizing this mode for purely rational reasons of > getting a faster, more punctual, comfortable and stress-free mode of travel. > > > This indeed is the situation in many cities in Europe and while we have no > qualms about importing western concepts (English medium education, wearing > suits and tie however uncomfortable they may be in our weather, listening to > western music, eating the big Mac (ughhh) and even importing Cheerleaders > for our newly formed Cricket Series) why do we suddenly start protesting > when our capital city tries to copy a Western/ Latin American idea of > excellent bus system/BRT calling it a foreign concept?????? > > The need is to publicise wider benefits of public transport and to reach the > *majority *of citizens who are users/potential users of *bus based public > transport, cycling and walking* in the city. (It is they who will benefit > most from a good BRT) > > It is this huge majority of commuters who will have the opportunity of > breaking free from the shackles of our present horrendous conditions of > urban traffic. > > So let's not worry too much about the high pitched screams coming from the > pampered lot of car users (and to some extent from two wheelers) protesting > against dedicated BRT lanes taking away *their* road space, and let's reach > the gagged-majority who have been at the receiving end of the stick ever > since our cities became car-dominated *and if necessary bring them on the > roads to block the MV lanes and put the personal cars in their place. > > *Does this sound extreme? Not when contrasted with the obscene arrogant rant > coming from Mr Chandan Mitra - representing the car lobby/media/politician > clique on the recent CNN IBN TV report about the mess accompanying the BRT > trials in Delhi. > > -- > Sujit > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 10:35 AM, Abhay Patil wrote: > >> Looks like BRTS in Delhi has reached a flash point. From the visuals (CNN >> IBN, newspapers) it looks like Delhi's implementation is no better than >> Pune. Empty BRTS lanes, sloppy junctions, ordinary bus stops and so on. I >> don't know what went amiss in the capital. Sheila Dixit has promised that >> she would make an all out effort to remove the glitches in a few weeks. >> Most important - she has said that she would not hesitate to drop the >> project if they are unable to get their act together right away. >> >> On a positive note - everybody is looking at BRTS now. On a negative note >> - it is appears to be quite a tall order to fix it. Given the ugly traffic >> jams and vociferousness of folks like journalist MP Chandan Mitra - it is >> quite likely that the baby would be thrown out with the bath water! And, >> that would have serious repercussions on BRTS in other cities. I can not >> imagine the cacophony that would ensue once that happens... >> >> -Abhay >> >> >> >> --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "PTTF General" group. >> To post to this group, send email to pttfgen@googlegroups.com >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> pttfgen-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.co.in/group/pttfgen?hl=en >> -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- >> >> > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------ > Sujit Patwardhan > sujitjp@gmail.com > > "Yamuna", > ICS Colony, > Ganeshkhind Road, > Pune 411 007 > India > Tel: +91 20 25537955 > Cell: +91 98220 26627 > ----------------------------------------------------- > Hon. Secretary: > Parisar > www.parisar.org > ------------------------------------------------------ > Founder Member: > PTTF > (Pune Traffic & Transportation Forum) > www.pttf.net > ------------------------------------------------------ > > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------ > Sujit Patwardhan > sujitjp@gmail.com > > "Yamuna", > ICS Colony, > Ganeshkhind Road, > Pune 411 007 > India > Tel: +91 20 25537955 > Cell: +91 98220 26627 > ----------------------------------------------------- > Hon. Secretary: > Parisar > www.parisar.org > ------------------------------------------------------ > Founder Member: > PTTF > (Pune Traffic & Transportation Forum) > www.pttf.net > ------------------------------------------------------ > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss > to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot > post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site > makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing > countries (the 'Global South'). > > From aashu.gupta20 at gmail.com Sun Apr 27 10:11:19 2008 From: aashu.gupta20 at gmail.com (Aashish Gupta) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 06:41:19 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: BRTS in Delhi In-Reply-To: <20080426204945.4pom2nfw4kcowcs8@webmail.seas.upenn.edu> References: <4cfd20aa0804250038k343da7cama026aaa2bfe99972@mail.gmail.com> <4cfd20aa0804250041n56b7aca1td97093e8cd486d3c@mail.gmail.com> <20080426204945.4pom2nfw4kcowcs8@webmail.seas.upenn.edu> Message-ID: The Ridership is .6 Million as against the projected 3.1 Million. (HT, March 11) According to the wikipedia, its 65 km long From bruun at seas.upenn.edu Sun Apr 27 10:48:39 2008 From: bruun at seas.upenn.edu (bruun at seas.upenn.edu) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 21:48:39 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: BRTS in Delhi In-Reply-To: <4cfd20aa0804250041n56b7aca1td97093e8cd486d3c@mail.gmail.com> References: <4cfd20aa0804250038k343da7cama026aaa2bfe99972@mail.gmail.com> <4cfd20aa0804250041n56b7aca1td97093e8cd486d3c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080426214839.ww8ircdfacso84cc@webmail.seas.upenn.edu> Aashish Thanks for the ridership figure. (I think the 65 km is out of date. It was 66 kms 3 years ago.) The reason I was asking is that Sujit said the ridership was "abysmal." But 600,000 persons for 66 kms is actually pretty crowded. The Washington Metro is 105 miles (over 160 kms) and several of the lines are genuinely crush loaded during the rush hours with only 700,000 passengers per day. Admittedly, people in the U.S. tend to be larger than in India, which also aggravates the crowding. As for an estimate of 3.1 Million, this seems ridiculous. Of course, it isn't going to meet that. Maybe if the fare was assumed to be very low and crowding standards were extreme...... Eric Quoting Sujit Patwardhan : > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Sujit Patwardhan > Date: Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 1:08 PM > Subject: Re: [pttfgen:1409] BRTS in Delhi > To: pttfgen@googlegroups.com > > > 25 April 2008 > > > BRT in Delhi > ========= > > Yes problems galore and I've been following the reports in the media > including the CNN IBN that Ashok Datar was to appear on, but didn't for some > reason. > > My take on all this is as follows: > > Deterioration in traffic has been an ongoing process in many Asian cities > for the last 3 decades or more. Like the frog sitting in a beaker of water > being slowly heated it has not had an occasion to "explode". Metro was taken > up and executed brilliantly by Mr. E Sridharan, with attention to the > minutest detail and a free hand guaranteeing "no interference" from > politicians. On top of that every lapse and overshooting of budgets as well > as abysmally poor ridership compared to the projected figures was pardoned > by a supportive Govt and compensated from additional funds made available > without delay and cloaked in secrecy. > > *Delhi Metro project is a marketing triumph that fills every Indian's chest > with pride*. However, how much travel-coverage (as Public Transport) the > very expensive Metro will be able to provide is a big question mark. There > is also the real possibility that the amount spent on the Metro represents > lost opportunity for other investments - like libraries and cultural > centres, gardens, public spaces and other amenities needed by the city. *But > in the final analysis we should accept that the Metro is pubic transport and > hence we must support it* unlike the eight lane highways, flyovers, > multistory car parks and other infrastructures being *routinely provided by > the city as subsidy to ever growing number of car and 2 wheeler owners at > the cost of other more efficient modes of travel.* > > BRT unlike the Metro has to deal with the existing conditions on our roads. > Of indiscipline, rampant irregularities, encroachments, poor engineering, > lack of understanding about the rights of pedestrians, cyclists and non > personal auto users. So if the road surface is poor BRT is blamed, if > drivers are indisciplined BRT is blamed, if a car stalls in the MV lane and > clogs up the traffic it is perceived as a problem caused by the BRT. If the > BRT lanes look empty (as indeed they will - considering each bus carries > many more people), it is seen as waste of an expensive resource -- although > not many of these critics complained much all these years about the *wasteful > use of resources when low occupancy cars filled up these very roads* - well > before BRT appeared on the scene. > > So it is clear that BRT planning should have been rooted in outreach and > marketing it as a concept that will improve mobility (of people as against > just near-empty personal vehicles), will greatly improve access for people > who are today helpless captive users of uncomfortable and outdated buses, it > will provide an option to those who are forced to use personal transport, > not necessarily out of choice but compulsion, and as benefits of a growing > BRT network becomes visible and better, more comfortable and even A/C buses > start plying on the BRT corridors, the higher middle class and even the rich > will have no problem patronizing this mode for purely rational reasons of > getting a faster, more punctual, comfortable and stress-free mode of travel. > > > This indeed is the situation in many cities in Europe and while we have no > qualms about importing western concepts (English medium education, wearing > suits and tie however uncomfortable they may be in our weather, listening to > western music, eating the big Mac (ughhh) and even importing Cheerleaders > for our newly formed Cricket Series) why do we suddenly start protesting > when our capital city tries to copy a Western/ Latin American idea of > excellent bus system/BRT calling it a foreign concept?????? > > The need is to publicise wider benefits of public transport and to reach the > *majority *of citizens who are users/potential users of *bus based public > transport, cycling and walking* in the city. (It is they who will benefit > most from a good BRT) > > It is this huge majority of commuters who will have the opportunity of > breaking free from the shackles of our present horrendous conditions of > urban traffic. > > So let's not worry too much about the high pitched screams coming from the > pampered lot of car users (and to some extent from two wheelers) protesting > against dedicated BRT lanes taking away *their* road space, and let's reach > the gagged-majority who have been at the receiving end of the stick ever > since our cities became car-dominated *and if necessary bring them on the > roads to block the MV lanes and put the personal cars in their place. > > *Does this sound extreme? Not when contrasted with the obscene arrogant rant > coming from Mr Chandan Mitra - representing the car lobby/media/politician > clique on the recent CNN IBN TV report about the mess accompanying the BRT > trials in Delhi. > > -- > Sujit > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 10:35 AM, Abhay Patil wrote: > >> Looks like BRTS in Delhi has reached a flash point. From the visuals (CNN >> IBN, newspapers) it looks like Delhi's implementation is no better than >> Pune. Empty BRTS lanes, sloppy junctions, ordinary bus stops and so on. I >> don't know what went amiss in the capital. Sheila Dixit has promised that >> she would make an all out effort to remove the glitches in a few weeks. >> Most important - she has said that she would not hesitate to drop the >> project if they are unable to get their act together right away. >> >> On a positive note - everybody is looking at BRTS now. On a negative note >> - it is appears to be quite a tall order to fix it. Given the ugly traffic >> jams and vociferousness of folks like journalist MP Chandan Mitra - it is >> quite likely that the baby would be thrown out with the bath water! And, >> that would have serious repercussions on BRTS in other cities. I can not >> imagine the cacophony that would ensue once that happens... >> >> -Abhay >> >> >> >> --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "PTTF General" group. >> To post to this group, send email to pttfgen@googlegroups.com >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> pttfgen-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.co.in/group/pttfgen?hl=en >> -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- >> >> > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------ > Sujit Patwardhan > sujitjp@gmail.com > > "Yamuna", > ICS Colony, > Ganeshkhind Road, > Pune 411 007 > India > Tel: +91 20 25537955 > Cell: +91 98220 26627 > ----------------------------------------------------- > Hon. Secretary: > Parisar > www.parisar.org > ------------------------------------------------------ > Founder Member: > PTTF > (Pune Traffic & Transportation Forum) > www.pttf.net > ------------------------------------------------------ > > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------ > Sujit Patwardhan > sujitjp@gmail.com > > "Yamuna", > ICS Colony, > Ganeshkhind Road, > Pune 411 007 > India > Tel: +91 20 25537955 > Cell: +91 98220 26627 > ----------------------------------------------------- > Hon. Secretary: > Parisar > www.parisar.org > ------------------------------------------------------ > Founder Member: > PTTF > (Pune Traffic & Transportation Forum) > www.pttf.net > ------------------------------------------------------ > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss > to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot > post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site > makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing > countries (the 'Global South'). > > From sujitjp at gmail.com Sun Apr 27 19:28:13 2008 From: sujitjp at gmail.com (Sujit Patwardhan) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 15:58:13 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: BRTS in Delhi In-Reply-To: <20080426214839.ww8ircdfacso84cc@webmail.seas.upenn.edu> References: <4cfd20aa0804250038k343da7cama026aaa2bfe99972@mail.gmail.com> <4cfd20aa0804250041n56b7aca1td97093e8cd486d3c@mail.gmail.com> <20080426214839.ww8ircdfacso84cc@webmail.seas.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <4cfd20aa0804270328q3215c523ga08c49270a095ea6@mail.gmail.com> Dear Eric, 65 Kilometers is correct. And the ridership of 600,000 *is* "abysmal" when compared to the project projection of over 3.1 million. When projects involving huge sums (of people's money) are invested in a project meant to produce specific result it is highly objectionable when the actual figures fall short not by 5% or 10% but by over 80%. This is how most *non viable* projects are cooked up whether they be Mega Dams or Transportation / Urban infrastructure projects. If the ridership of 3.1 million seems ridiculous, why did the Govt sanction the project, particularly when much cheaper options were available? I don't think figures of ridership on the Washington Metro are quite relevant to Asian countries with much higher population densities. Pune Municipal Transport buses of very poor quality, for instance carry over 600,000 commuters each day. They do this with about 650 buses which are of old technology, and in poor condition of upkeep. We feel Pune with about 2000 modern semi low floor and efficient buses would be able to provide excellent quality public transport with a citywide network. If the city were to provide the same coverage by Metro we will need 10 years or more to make it functional and be certainly driven to bankruptcy. And everyone knows that Bogota's Transmilenio carries more passengers than the Washington Metro at a much lower cost . So there are serious problems with Metro but politicians love expensive projects and this is supported by the elites who want to keep up with the Jones's. They say if Bangkok can have a Metro why not India? Much like the juvenile boast of "mine's bigger than yours" . I think we need to move beyond that and face the hard reality of a choice between car dominated "business as usual" scenario and the alternative "New Mobility" vision that honours walking, cycling and affordable public transport system -- best of which today appears to be the BRT. -- Sujit On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 7:18 AM, wrote: > Aashish > > Thanks for the ridership figure. (I think the 65 km is out of date. It > was 66 kms 3 years ago.) > > The reason I was asking is that Sujit said the ridership was > "abysmal." But 600,000 persons for 66 kms is actually pretty crowded. > The Washington Metro is 105 miles (over 160 kms) and several of the > lines are genuinely crush loaded during the rush hours with only > 700,000 passengers per day. Admittedly, people in the U.S. tend to be > larger than in India, which also aggravates the crowding. > > As for an estimate of 3.1 Million, this seems ridiculous. Of course, > it isn't going to meet that. Maybe if the fare was assumed to be very > low and crowding standards were extreme...... > > Eric > > > > > > Quoting Sujit Patwardhan : > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: Sujit Patwardhan > > Date: Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 1:08 PM > > Subject: Re: [pttfgen:1409] BRTS in Delhi > > To: pttfgen@googlegroups.com > > > > > > 25 April 2008 > > > > > > BRT in Delhi > > ========= > > > > Yes problems galore and I've been following the reports in the media > > including the CNN IBN that Ashok Datar was to appear on, but didn't for > some > > reason. > > > > My take on all this is as follows: > > > > Deterioration in traffic has been an ongoing process in many Asian > cities > > for the last 3 decades or more. Like the frog sitting in a beaker of > water > > being slowly heated it has not had an occasion to "explode". Metro was > taken > > up and executed brilliantly by Mr. E Sridharan, with attention to the > > minutest detail and a free hand guaranteeing "no interference" from > > politicians. On top of that every lapse and overshooting of budgets as > well > > as abysmally poor ridership compared to the projected figures was > pardoned > > by a supportive Govt and compensated from additional funds made > available > > without delay and cloaked in secrecy. > > > > *Delhi Metro project is a marketing triumph that fills every Indian's > chest > > with pride*. However, how much travel-coverage (as Public Transport) the > > very expensive Metro will be able to provide is a big question mark. > There > > is also the real possibility that the amount spent on the Metro > represents > > lost opportunity for other investments - like libraries and cultural > > centres, gardens, public spaces and other amenities needed by the city. > *But > > in the final analysis we should accept that the Metro is pubic transport > and > > hence we must support it* unlike the eight lane highways, flyovers, > > multistory car parks and other infrastructures being *routinely provided > by > > the city as subsidy to ever growing number of car and 2 wheeler owners > at > > the cost of other more efficient modes of travel.* > > > > BRT unlike the Metro has to deal with the existing conditions on our > roads. > > Of indiscipline, rampant irregularities, encroachments, poor > engineering, > > lack of understanding about the rights of pedestrians, cyclists and non > > personal auto users. So if the road surface is poor BRT is blamed, if > > drivers are indisciplined BRT is blamed, if a car stalls in the MV lane > and > > clogs up the traffic it is perceived as a problem caused by the BRT. If > the > > BRT lanes look empty (as indeed they will - considering each bus carries > > many more people), it is seen as waste of an expensive resource -- > although > > not many of these critics complained much all these years about the > *wasteful > > use of resources when low occupancy cars filled up these very roads* - > well > > before BRT appeared on the scene. > > > > So it is clear that BRT planning should have been rooted in outreach and > > marketing it as a concept that will improve mobility (of people as > against > > just near-empty personal vehicles), will greatly improve access for > people > > who are today helpless captive users of uncomfortable and outdated > buses, it > > will provide an option to those who are forced to use personal > transport, > > not necessarily out of choice but compulsion, and as benefits of a > growing > > BRT network becomes visible and better, more comfortable and even A/C > buses > > start plying on the BRT corridors, the higher middle class and even the > rich > > will have no problem patronizing this mode for purely rational reasons > of > > getting a faster, more punctual, comfortable and stress-free mode of > travel. > > > > > > This indeed is the situation in many cities in Europe and while we have > no > > qualms about importing western concepts (English medium education, > wearing > > suits and tie however uncomfortable they may be in our weather, > listening to > > western music, eating the big Mac (ughhh) and even importing > Cheerleaders > > for our newly formed Cricket Series) why do we suddenly start protesting > > when our capital city tries to copy a Western/ Latin American idea of > > excellent bus system/BRT calling it a foreign concept?????? > > > > The need is to publicise wider benefits of public transport and to reach > the > > *majority *of citizens who are users/potential users of *bus based > public > > transport, cycling and walking* in the city. (It is they who will > benefit > > most from a good BRT) > > > > It is this huge majority of commuters who will have the opportunity of > > breaking free from the shackles of our present horrendous conditions of > > urban traffic. > > > > So let's not worry too much about the high pitched screams coming from > the > > pampered lot of car users (and to some extent from two wheelers) > protesting > > against dedicated BRT lanes taking away *their* road space, and let's > reach > > the gagged-majority who have been at the receiving end of the stick ever > > since our cities became car-dominated *and if necessary bring them on > the > > roads to block the MV lanes and put the personal cars in their place. > > > > *Does this sound extreme? Not when contrasted with the obscene arrogant > rant > > coming from Mr Chandan Mitra - representing the car > lobby/media/politician > > clique on the recent CNN IBN TV report about the mess accompanying the > BRT > > trials in Delhi. > > > > -- > > Sujit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 10:35 AM, Abhay Patil > wrote: > > > >> Looks like BRTS in Delhi has reached a flash point. From the visuals > (CNN > >> IBN, newspapers) it looks like Delhi's implementation is no better than > >> Pune. Empty BRTS lanes, sloppy junctions, ordinary bus stops and so > on. I > >> don't know what went amiss in the capital. Sheila Dixit has promised > that > >> she would make an all out effort to remove the glitches in a few weeks. > >> Most important - she has said that she would not hesitate to drop the > >> project if they are unable to get their act together right away. > >> > >> On a positive note - everybody is looking at BRTS now. On a negative > note > >> - it is appears to be quite a tall order to fix it. Given the ugly > traffic > >> jams and vociferousness of folks like journalist MP Chandan Mitra - it > is > >> quite likely that the baby would be thrown out with the bath water! > And, > >> that would have serious repercussions on BRTS in other cities. I can > not > >> imagine the cacophony that would ensue once that happens... > >> > >> -Abhay > >> > >> > >> > >> --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > >> "PTTF General" group. > >> To post to this group, send email to pttfgen@googlegroups.com > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> pttfgen-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > >> For more options, visit this group at > >> http://groups.google.co.in/group/pttfgen?hl=en > >> -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > Sujit Patwardhan > > sujitjp@gmail.com > > > > "Yamuna", > > ICS Colony, > > Ganeshkhind Road, > > Pune 411 007 > > India > > Tel: +91 20 25537955 > > Cell: +91 98220 26627 > > ----------------------------------------------------- > > Hon. Secretary: > > Parisar > > www.parisar.org > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > Founder Member: > > PTTF > > (Pune Traffic & Transportation Forum) > > www.pttf.net > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > -- > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > Sujit Patwardhan > > sujitjp@gmail.com > > > > "Yamuna", > > ICS Colony, > > Ganeshkhind Road, > > Pune 411 007 > > India > > Tel: +91 20 25537955 > > Cell: +91 98220 26627 > > ----------------------------------------------------- > > Hon. Secretary: > > Parisar > > www.parisar.org > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > Founder Member: > > PTTF > > (Pune Traffic & Transportation Forum) > > www.pttf.net > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss > > to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. > > The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot > > post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site > > makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > > > ================================================================ > > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing > > countries (the 'Global South'). > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to > join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The > yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the > real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you > can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > -- ------------------------------------------------------ Sujit Patwardhan sujitjp@gmail.com "Yamuna", ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007 India Tel: +91 20 25537955 Cell: +91 98220 26627 ----------------------------------------------------- Hon. Secretary: Parisar www.parisar.org ------------------------------------------------------ Founder Member: PTTF (Pune Traffic & Transportation Forum) www.pttf.net ------------------------------------------------------ From carlosfpardo at gmail.com Sun Apr 27 21:42:09 2008 From: carlosfpardo at gmail.com (Carlosfelipe Pardo) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 20:42:09 +0800 Subject: [sustran] Re: BRTS in Delhi In-Reply-To: <4814740F.1010907@sutp.org> References: <4cfd20aa0804250038k343da7cama026aaa2bfe99972@mail.gmail.com> <4cfd20aa0804250041n56b7aca1td97093e8cd486d3c@mail.gmail.com> <20080426214839.ww8ircdfacso84cc@webmail.seas.upenn.edu> <4cfd20aa0804270328q3215c523ga08c49270a095ea6@mail.gmail.com> <48146961.6050304@greenidea.eu> <4814740F.1010907@sutp.org> Message-ID: <481474A1.5040002@gmail.com> Sorry, when mentioning "mine is bigger than yours", I think what Sujit means is that, while governments are trying to show off their toys between themselves ("I have a nicer train", "I have a taller building"), they are spending money that may not even be there (e.g. going into debt) while many other needs aren't satisfied (food, health, education), which would have been covered if the toy wouldn't have been bought, subsidized, nationalized, etc. This happens many times with rail systems, while other systems are cheaper and have similar capacity (if properly planned), but are not as "big", "shiny", "cool", "modern" or whatever adjective that can be attributed to a system that tends to resemble "modernity", possibly using the same definition from a 1900 textbook on city development. Also related: citizens are too immature many times: If they don't see things in their cities, they think nothing has been done. If a mayor redevelops the finances or improves education and reduces corruption while increasing voluntary tax contributions, citizens don't think that mayor was so good as one that will buy a big toy (and leave them to pay for it during 25 years or so). This perpetuates the "bigger toys" phenomenon, and the rest is pure orthodox and classic psychoanalysis. Now, give a couch to your mayor, please. I can assist in their therapy. Carlos. > > Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory wrote: >> Sujit Patwardhan wrote: >>> [...] >> >>> Much like the >>> juvenile boast of "mine's bigger than yours" . >>> I think we need to move beyond that and face the hard reality of a >>> choice >>> between car dominated "business as usual" scenario and the >>> alternative "New >>> Mobility" vision that honours walking, cycling and affordable public >>> transport system -- best of which today appears to be the BRT. >>> >>> -- >>> Sujit >>> >> SPEAKING of "mine's bigger than yours", it seems that prejudice >> against metro systems as part of "New Mobility" complements >> wonderfully - and not intentionally - high spending on military >> equipment, also known as "Old Diplomacy". >> >> [...] >> > From edelman at greenidea.eu Sun Apr 27 10:04:32 2008 From: edelman at greenidea.eu (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 03:04:32 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Machine Gun-Toting Officers To Patrol NYC Subway Message-ID: <4813D120.30601@greenidea.eu> Hi, This is the mainstream report: So I am curious: * Which PT systems all over the world have similar measures, which are continuous (rather than just during visits of certain people, international summits, etc.) * If people think it makes PT less interesting, or any cases of people being turned off PT because of things like this... Thanks, T -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunni 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic Skype: toddedelman ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 edelman@greenidea.eu http://greenideafactory.blogspot.com/ www.flickr.com/photos/edelman Green Idea Factory is a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net CAR is over. If you WANT it. From arulgreen at yahoo.com Sun Apr 27 18:51:13 2008 From: arulgreen at yahoo.com (arul rathinam) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 02:51:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sustran] Re: BRTS in Delhi In-Reply-To: <20080426214839.ww8ircdfacso84cc@webmail.seas.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <499969.12133.qm@web51102.mail.re2.yahoo.com> ?Give BRTS time to overcome teething troubles? April 25th, 2008 New Delhi, April 25 (IANS) The much-maligned Bus Rapid Transit System (BRTS) in the capital Friday found unexpected backers with two environmental watchdogs defending the new traffic segregation model and saying it should be given time to iron out initial hiccups. ?The BRTS means a massive transition in Delhi?s traffic ways (and) therefore implementation problems are bound to happen. But scrapping the project cannot give a solution for Delhi?s traffic woes,? Centre of Science and Environment (CSE) director Sunita Narain told reporters here. ?Buses mobilize 61 percent of the capital?s population and cover only eight percent of the road space. So providing a faster lane for buses will be in larger good,? Narain said. The BRTS corridor on each side has four lanes - meant for buses, two-wheelers and cars, cyclists and pedestrians. The width of the bus lane is 3.5 metres, while that of two-wheelers and cars is seven metres, and cyclists and pedestrians each have two-metre wide lane. The Rs.1.8 billion project had come under heavy criticism after the capital witnessed major traffic snarls on the 5.6-km stretch of BRTS from Ambedkar Nagar to Moolchand in south Delhi, which has been opened for trial run. ??The traffic situation on the Ambedkar Nagar-Moolchand stretch has also improved after the signal cycle was changed and space was given to vehicles where there was congestion,? Narain said. Environment Pollution (Prevention and Control) Authority (EPCA) chairman Bhure Lal also backed the project, saying that BRTS was necessary as 1,000 new motor vehicles were added to the city?s roads every day. ?Segregation of space for traffic will help traffic in moving efficiently and faster,? Bhure Lal said. ?The BRTS will supplement the metro and will be part of the integrated transport that will be the future of the city. We need to build a public transport system where all metro, road and proposed monorail are interlinked,? Narain said. Narain also said that buses could not fight with cars for space as the ?bus system deteriorates in congestion?. The system has been under fire from road users and citizen?s groups after massive traffic snarls left motorists fuming and pedestrians complaining they were finding it difficult to negotiate the heavy traffic. http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/enviornment/give-brts-time-to-overcome-teething-troubles_10042019.html --- On Sun, 4/27/08, bruun@seas.upenn.edu wrote: > From: bruun@seas.upenn.edu > Subject: [sustran] Re: BRTS in Delhi > To: sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org > Date: Sunday, April 27, 2008, 7:18 AM > Aashish > > Thanks for the ridership figure. (I think the 65 km is out > of date. It > was 66 kms 3 years ago.) > > The reason I was asking is that Sujit said the ridership > was > "abysmal." But 600,000 persons for 66 kms is > actually pretty crowded. > The Washington Metro is 105 miles (over 160 kms) and > several of the > lines are genuinely crush loaded during the rush hours with > only > 700,000 passengers per day. Admittedly, people in the U.S. > tend to be > larger than in India, which also aggravates the crowding. > > As for an estimate of 3.1 Million, this seems ridiculous. > Of course, > it isn't going to meet that. Maybe if the fare was > assumed to be very > low and crowding standards were extreme...... > > Eric > > > > > > Quoting Sujit Patwardhan : > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: Sujit Patwardhan > > Date: Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 1:08 PM > > Subject: Re: [pttfgen:1409] BRTS in Delhi > > To: pttfgen@googlegroups.com > > > > > > 25 April 2008 > > > > > > BRT in Delhi > > ========= > > > > Yes problems galore and I've been following the > reports in the media > > including the CNN IBN that Ashok Datar was to appear > on, but didn't for some > > reason. > > > > My take on all this is as follows: > > > > Deterioration in traffic has been an ongoing process > in many Asian cities > > for the last 3 decades or more. Like the frog sitting > in a beaker of water > > being slowly heated it has not had an occasion to > "explode". Metro was taken > > up and executed brilliantly by Mr. E Sridharan, with > attention to the > > minutest detail and a free hand guaranteeing "no > interference" from > > politicians. On top of that every lapse and > overshooting of budgets as well > > as abysmally poor ridership compared to the projected > figures was pardoned > > by a supportive Govt and compensated from additional > funds made available > > without delay and cloaked in secrecy. > > > > *Delhi Metro project is a marketing triumph that fills > every Indian's chest > > with pride*. However, how much travel-coverage (as > Public Transport) the > > very expensive Metro will be able to provide is a big > question mark. There > > is also the real possibility that the amount spent on > the Metro represents > > lost opportunity for other investments - like > libraries and cultural > > centres, gardens, public spaces and other amenities > needed by the city. *But > > in the final analysis we should accept that the Metro > is pubic transport and > > hence we must support it* unlike the eight lane > highways, flyovers, > > multistory car parks and other infrastructures being > *routinely provided by > > the city as subsidy to ever growing number of car and > 2 wheeler owners at > > the cost of other more efficient modes of travel.* > > > > BRT unlike the Metro has to deal with the existing > conditions on our roads. > > Of indiscipline, rampant irregularities, > encroachments, poor engineering, > > lack of understanding about the rights of pedestrians, > cyclists and non > > personal auto users. So if the road surface is poor > BRT is blamed, if > > drivers are indisciplined BRT is blamed, if a car > stalls in the MV lane and > > clogs up the traffic it is perceived as a problem > caused by the BRT. If the > > BRT lanes look empty (as indeed they will - > considering each bus carries > > many more people), it is seen as waste of an > expensive resource -- although > > not many of these critics complained much all these > years about the *wasteful > > use of resources when low occupancy cars filled up > these very roads* - well > > before BRT appeared on the scene. > > > > So it is clear that BRT planning should have been > rooted in outreach and > > marketing it as a concept that will improve mobility > (of people as against > > just near-empty personal vehicles), will greatly > improve access for people > > who are today helpless captive users of uncomfortable > and outdated buses, it > > will provide an option to those who are forced to use > personal transport, > > not necessarily out of choice but compulsion, and as > benefits of a growing > > BRT network becomes visible and better, more > comfortable and even A/C buses > > start plying on the BRT corridors, the higher middle > class and even the rich > > will have no problem patronizing this mode for purely > rational reasons of > > getting a faster, more punctual, comfortable and > stress-free mode of travel. > > > > > > This indeed is the situation in many cities in Europe > and while we have no > > qualms about importing western concepts (English > medium education, wearing > > suits and tie however uncomfortable they may be in our > weather, listening to > > western music, eating the big Mac (ughhh) and even > importing Cheerleaders > > for our newly formed Cricket Series) why do we > suddenly start protesting > > when our capital city tries to copy a Western/ Latin > American idea of > > excellent bus system/BRT calling it a foreign > concept?????? > > > > The need is to publicise wider benefits of public > transport and to reach the > > *majority *of citizens who are users/potential users > of *bus based public > > transport, cycling and walking* in the city. (It is > they who will benefit > > most from a good BRT) > > > > It is this huge majority of commuters who will have > the opportunity of > > breaking free from the shackles of our present > horrendous conditions of > > urban traffic. > > > > So let's not worry too much about the high pitched > screams coming from the > > pampered lot of car users (and to some extent from two > wheelers) protesting > > against dedicated BRT lanes taking away *their* road > space, and let's reach > > the gagged-majority who have been at the receiving end > of the stick ever > > since our cities became car-dominated *and if > necessary bring them on the > > roads to block the MV lanes and put the personal cars > in their place. > > > > *Does this sound extreme? Not when contrasted with the > obscene arrogant rant > > coming from Mr Chandan Mitra - representing the car > lobby/media/politician > > clique on the recent CNN IBN TV report about the mess > accompanying the BRT > > trials in Delhi. > > > > -- > > Sujit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 10:35 AM, Abhay Patil > wrote: > > > >> Looks like BRTS in Delhi has reached a flash > point. From the visuals (CNN > >> IBN, newspapers) it looks like Delhi's > implementation is no better than > >> Pune. Empty BRTS lanes, sloppy junctions, > ordinary bus stops and so on. I > >> don't know what went amiss in the capital. > Sheila Dixit has promised that > >> she would make an all out effort to remove the > glitches in a few weeks. > >> Most important - she has said that she would not > hesitate to drop the > >> project if they are unable to get their act > together right away. > >> > >> On a positive note - everybody is looking at BRTS > now. On a negative note > >> - it is appears to be quite a tall order to fix > it. Given the ugly traffic > >> jams and vociferousness of folks like journalist > MP Chandan Mitra - it is > >> quite likely that the baby would be thrown out > with the bath water! And, > >> that would have serious repercussions on BRTS in > other cities. I can not > >> imagine the cacophony that would ensue once that > happens... > >> > >> -Abhay > >> > >> > >> > >> > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ > >> You received this message because you are > subscribed to the Google Groups > >> "PTTF General" group. > >> To post to this group, send email to > pttfgen@googlegroups.com > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> pttfgen-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > >> For more options, visit this group at > >> http://groups.google.co.in/group/pttfgen?hl=en > >> > -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > Sujit Patwardhan > > sujitjp@gmail.com > > > > "Yamuna", > > ICS Colony, > > Ganeshkhind Road, > > Pune 411 007 > > India > > Tel: +91 20 25537955 > > Cell: +91 98220 26627 > > ----------------------------------------------------- > > Hon. Secretary: > > Parisar > > www.parisar.org > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > Founder Member: > > PTTF > > (Pune Traffic & Transportation Forum) > > www.pttf.net > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > -- > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > Sujit Patwardhan > > sujitjp@gmail.com > > > > "Yamuna", > > ICS Colony, > > Ganeshkhind Road, > > Pune 411 007 > > India > > Tel: +91 20 25537955 > > Cell: +91 98220 26627 > > ----------------------------------------------------- > > Hon. Secretary: > > Parisar > > www.parisar.org > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > Founder Member: > > PTTF > > (Pune Traffic & Transportation Forum) > > www.pttf.net > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss > messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > > > Please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss > > to join the real sustran-discuss and get full > membership rights. > > The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and > 'members' there cannot > > post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the > yahoogroups site > > makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the > confusing arrangement. > > > > > ================================================================ > > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of > people-centred, > > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on > developing > > countries (the 'Global South'). > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss > messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to > join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership > rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and > 'members' there cannot post to the real > sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem > like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of > people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a > focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From carlos.pardo at sutp.org Sun Apr 27 21:39:43 2008 From: carlos.pardo at sutp.org (Carlosfelipe Pardo) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 20:39:43 +0800 Subject: [sustran] Re: BRTS in Delhi In-Reply-To: <48146961.6050304@greenidea.eu> References: <4cfd20aa0804250038k343da7cama026aaa2bfe99972@mail.gmail.com> <4cfd20aa0804250041n56b7aca1td97093e8cd486d3c@mail.gmail.com> <20080426214839.ww8ircdfacso84cc@webmail.seas.upenn.edu> <4cfd20aa0804270328q3215c523ga08c49270a095ea6@mail.gmail.com> <48146961.6050304@greenidea.eu> Message-ID: <4814740F.1010907@sutp.org> Sorry, when mentioning "mine is bigger than yours", I think what Sujit means is that, while governments are trying to show off their toys between themselves ("I have a nicer train", "I have a taller building"), they are spending money that may not even be there (e.g. going into debt) while many other needs aren't satisfied (food, health, education), which would have been covered if the toy wouldn't have been bought, subsidized, nationalized, etc. This happens many times with rail systems, while other systems are cheaper and have similar capacity (if properly planned), but are not as "big", "shiny", "cool", "modern" or whatever adjective that can be attributed to a system that tends to resemble "modernity", possibly using the same definition from a 1900 textbook on city development. Also related: citizens are too immature many times: If they don't see things in their cities, they think nothing has been done. If a mayor redevelops the finances or improves education and reduces corruption while increasing voluntary tax contributions, citizens don't think that mayor was so good as one that will buy a big toy (and leave them to pay for it during 25 years or so). This perpetuates the "bigger toys" phenomenon, and the rest is pure orthodox and classic psychoanalysis. Now, give a couch to your mayor, please. I can assist in their therapy. Carlos. Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory wrote: > Sujit Patwardhan wrote: >> [...] > >> Much like the >> juvenile boast of "mine's bigger than yours" . >> I think we need to move beyond that and face the hard reality of a >> choice >> between car dominated "business as usual" scenario and the >> alternative "New >> Mobility" vision that honours walking, cycling and affordable public >> transport system -- best of which today appears to be the BRT. >> >> -- >> Sujit >> > SPEAKING of "mine's bigger than yours", it seems that prejudice > against metro systems as part of "New Mobility" complements > wonderfully - and not intentionally - high spending on military > equipment, also known as "Old Diplomacy". > > [...] > From cornie.huizenga at cai-asia.org Mon Apr 28 11:19:02 2008 From: cornie.huizenga at cai-asia.org (Cornie Huizenga) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:19:02 +0800 Subject: [sustran] Re: Bogota's time machine Message-ID: <7e2a2770804271919t4ab9ada6mcb1c4b608cee978e@mail.gmail.com> Dear Carlos, Thanks for this sobering update. It clearly demonstrates the importance of intensifying advocacy for a systems change approach to urban transport. I expect that at BAQ 2008 we will be able to have a discussion on the need for and (the how-to) of such a systems change approach. In Asia we now have a large number of BRT's on the drawing board or in partial operation. How do we ensure that this becomes part of a sustained comprehensive change and that we avoid a Bogota like situation. Cornie Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 18:33:52 +0800 > From: Carlosfelipe Pardo > Subject: [sustran] Bogot?'s time machine > To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport > > Message-ID: <48130510.7020006@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Hi, > > There have been a lot of rumors regarding Bogot?'s "fate" in terms of > transport, and a lot has happened in the last months. Some may be > interested in knowing more about it. I will do my best to summarize the > key issues of this "time machine" towards the past (I would say > somewhere around the 80s) that our city has started to experience in > terms of transport policy and practice. It's based on the latest > "development" plan of the city, press announcements and a recent meeting > I attended where the new Secretary of Mobility described their projects > in some detail. If anyone would like to correct or add something, > they're most welcome: > > *BRT and Metro*: As with Curitiba, many rail promoters are very > interested in developing a rail system for Bogot?. This in itself isn't > too bad. The bad thing is that one strategy has been to discredit the > xistent BRT systems. This story is very long, so I won't get into it. > For Bogot?, the current mayor won the elections partly because he > promised to build a metro, and because the BRT's > 6-people-per-square-meter operations had people doubting about its > efficacy as a mass transit system. However, the mayor has never said (or > maybe doesn't know) that a metro will have the same operation > characteristics, but at a much higher cost. However, a bid for studies > to develop the metro will be open soon (two weeks ago, 42 companies > expressed their interest in taking part in such a study), financed with > loans from development banks. In this regard, the World Bank has told > the municipality clearly that they should be very careful about > developing a rail system due to the known risks of such a system. > At the same time, the mobility secretary has said "we cannot build more > BRT (TransMilenio) because we have no more money". Strange but > true...more about financing below. Regarding the BRT's operation and > structure, they have also announced that they will "improve" operations, > mainly by changing the financial structure and (see this!) possibly by > changing the payment to operators by kilometers to another scheme (by > passengers? that could take us 10 years back in just a couple of months). > Finally, they have just announced that, on the "S?ptima" Avenue (where > plans for BRT phase III had been fully designed already), they will > build a "busway" (not a BRT, but a busway, like the one that proved that > this scheme would not work in Bogot?, in the 1980s and 1990s). They said > this will enhance the (fare) integration of the new integrated scheme > they are proposing, which they say would be ready in one year. For such > a scheme, IADB is providing a grant to the city. > > *Parking: *Last week, they have also announced that, due to congestion, > cruising, and delivery truck problems, they will now "solve everything" > by opening up parking bays in the city, AT NO COST. I told the Secretary > of Mobility that this would just increase congestion if they didn't do a > proper parking pricing policy, but he answered "I can't charge users for > parking if I don't have good public transport"... Chicken and egg > problem # 1. Further, one must note that sidewalks which were previously > built are now being partially torn down by some shop owners, etc. Ah, > but I have to be fair: cars can only park a maximum of 3 hours in the > newly opened parking bays. > > *Roads and Highways: *Yet another idea of the current administration has > been to say that, to solve the current deterioration of the current > roads, they will build new roads with the "innovative model" of a > concession. Yes, there is something strange here also: new roads to > solve the deterioration of old roads. I suggested they concession the > maintenance of the existing roads, and charge for their use while using > the charge to invest in public transport and partially solve the > financing problem described below. However, this wasn't seen as viable > or useful or even logical. It's also relevant to note that, since they > have started to prioritize traffic management, traffic police are now > overriding red phases for intersections on the BRT and pushing cars to > the limit of the intersection (yes, on top of the pedestrian crossing > /zebra). > > *Bikeways: *When the Chamber of Commerce asked the Secretary of Mobility > about the role of bicycles in the transport system, he said "I never > thought a bicycle could be part of a transport system". However, he went > on a trip to Europe to learn about transport measures, and his > conclusion about bicycles was that they are only feasible to use in the > Netherlands, where the average trip distance is 2km. Thus, Bogot? should > not promote bicycles (despite the existent 340kms of fully segregated > bikeways and its 8-fold increase in use since their implementation). > > *Land use*: The last related measure proposed is that they will build an > intercity train. The argument the Secretary of Mobility has given is > that "people want to live in suburbs and leave the noise and pollution > of the city". That is, the city is inevitable noisy and filthy, so the > people who can afford it should do their best to live as far away as > possible... and the city must cater the needs of those oh unfortunate > rich people. A lesson on equity. > > *Financing the system*: During elections, the candidate for mayor said > he would finance all transport improvements (metro, road network) with > the funds gathered from traffic violations (e.g. "tickets"). Now they > have seen that this is not viable, so they say that all development > banks are "begging" them to take a loan, which would be payable starting > 2015... Also, they have reminded us that concession highways pay for > themselves... > > *Politics*: As if the above were not enough to demonstrate how Bogot? > will go back to the stone age in transport, there are also heavy > political battles involved. In summary: any proposal that sounds like > sustainable transport (livability, equity, less car use, more bicycles, > more public transport) will be labeled "Pe?alosa" and they will say you > come from his political party. Of course, under this administration all > doors will be closed if you just mention that name, since he was the > opposing candidate to the current mayor. > I would also say that the current plans to stop further development of > transmilenio and do busways is a deliberate attempt to stop any project > that had to do with Pe?alosa, as if the development of a city had > someone's name attached to it, the current Bogot? with wide sidewalks > and bikeways is dubbed "Pe?alosa's city". And, since local GDP has > increased significantly and USD exchange rate has dropped, everyone > has/wants to have a car (loans are also pretty easy to get) and hates > any anti-car measure. > > Ok, and for those who have heard about the Sunday carfree day (Ciclov?a) > from 7am to 2pm, a congressman has proposed a law that will limit the > time of the Ciclovia to 12 noon, and should start at 5am, despite the > fact that at least 1million users are using the ciclov?a from 11 to 2pm. > His argument: many people suffer from the congestion of those 117 km, > and bikeways aren't used during that time (according to him). So, > following this rationale, a recreational measure has to pay for the > excessive car use in the city. > > That's it, in a nutshell. Sorry for the black hat, but I thought it > would be useful to describe the status quo of Bogot?'s transport. If all > goes as planned, we will be back in 1980 by the end of this > administration, but we'll have the additional problems: a huge loan on > an inexistent subway, unprecedented population of cars and motorcycles > and the expected increased pollution, injuries, deaths in road accidents > or from respiratory problems, and a dirty, inefficient and congested city. > > What to do? Comments are most welcome. > > Best regards, > > -- > Carlosfelipe Pardo > > > From sudhirgota at hotmail.com Mon Apr 28 15:31:56 2008 From: sudhirgota at hotmail.com (sudhir gota) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 06:31:56 +0000 Subject: [sustran] Re ; BRTS in delhi Message-ID: Dear all, I would also try to pitch in- though a bit late, Bangalore plans to spend 42.44% of its entire infrastructure investment for next 16 years on Metros. Pedestrians have been alloted a mere 0.6% of total investment. Bangalore is due for elections and Metro has found its place in couple of parties manifestos. Being on the other side of fence for long and working on several ?Infrastructure Development Projects? in India, had never seen even a single project being economically and financially unviable. Regards Sudhir _________________________________________________________________ Tried the new MSN Messenger? It?s cool! Download now. http://messenger.msn.com/Download/Default.aspx?mkt=en-in From anupam9gupta at gmail.com Mon Apr 28 21:33:36 2008 From: anupam9gupta at gmail.com (Anupam Gupta) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 18:03:36 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Ultra Low Floor Tram v/s BRTS Message-ID: <006e01c8a92c$177fb640$467f22c0$@com> Hi Everyone - I've just received the mail below on a Metro Mailing Group. Since I'm not an expert in these matters, I thought I'd ask the group here if they had any idea on the merits of a "Hi-Tech Ultra Low Floor Tram" over the BRTS. Thanks very much for your time. ****Mail starts**** Just a reminder to all the readers, the BRT as a concept has already being implemented in Pune City. It was the first BRT corridor in India and its sucessfully running in 2 corridors namely Katraj- Swargate and Hadapsar- Swargate, with 6 more corridors being planned and under design. There were indeed few snags even in Pune, but yet the project went ahed and currently stands as in "running" condition. On second thgoughts, a Ultra low floor Tram can be implemented instead of a BRT. in the same BRT corridor, its both cheaper than a Metro rail and monorail, as well as better blended in road trafic than normal rail and metro transport. Several cities and towns in Europe and Asia sucessfully run Hi-Tech Ultra lowfloor Trams. Infact a few of "sucesfull" BRT corridors over a period of time ultmately have infact moved either to Light Rail Systems or Ultra Low Floor Trams. The closeness of the low floor tram to the rail track and road surface as well as the usage of a overhead pentograph instead of a third rail as in a Metro rail makes is more suitable to blend easily in city trafic along other modes of road transport. Moreover one Low floor tram can infact take the load of 4 busses in a single go. My sugesstion is to implement the HiTech Low Floor Trams in all existing BRT corridors as the concept of BRT as unimpelmentable in dense traffic locations like in India. ****Mail ends**** Regards, Anupam Gupta From etts at indigo.ie Mon Apr 28 22:02:11 2008 From: etts at indigo.ie (Brendan Finn) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:02:11 +0100 Subject: [sustran] Re: Ultra Low Floor Tram v/s BRTS In-Reply-To: <006e01c8a92c$177fb640$467f22c0$@com> References: <006e01c8a92c$177fb640$467f22c0$@com> Message-ID: <277885F0F07B4674882A3AE78C9A41D1@MicroPro271007> Dear all, The original message contains two fairly standard pieces of disinformation from the tram lobby : 1) The suggestion that the tram is rather cheap really 2) The suggestion that bus can't do the job but tram can I am no longer surprised either by the brass-neck of the lobby, or that decision-takers and the media continue to fall for it. With best wishes, Brendan. _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Brendan Finn e-mail : etts@indigo.ie tel : +353.87.2530286 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anupam Gupta" To: Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 1:33 PM Subject: [sustran] Ultra Low Floor Tram v/s BRTS > Hi Everyone - I've just received the mail below on a Metro Mailing Group. > Since I'm not an expert in these matters, I thought I'd ask the group here > if they had any idea on the merits of a "Hi-Tech Ultra Low Floor Tram" over > the BRTS. Thanks very much for your time. > > > > ****Mail starts**** > > Just a reminder to all the readers, the BRT as a concept has already > being implemented in Pune City. It was the first BRT corridor in > India and its sucessfully running in 2 corridors namely Katraj- > Swargate and Hadapsar- Swargate, with 6 more corridors being planned > and under design. > > There were indeed few snags even in Pune, but yet the project went > ahed and currently stands as in "running" condition. > > On second thgoughts, a Ultra low floor Tram can be implemented > instead of a BRT. in the same BRT corridor, its both cheaper than a > Metro rail and monorail, as well as better blended in road trafic > than normal rail and metro transport. Several cities and towns in > Europe and Asia sucessfully run Hi-Tech Ultra lowfloor Trams. > > Infact a few of "sucesfull" BRT corridors over a period of time > ultmately have infact moved either to Light Rail Systems or Ultra Low > Floor Trams. > > The closeness of the low floor tram to the rail track and road > surface as well as the usage of a overhead pentograph instead of a > third rail as in a Metro rail makes is more suitable to blend easily > in city trafic along other modes of road transport. > > Moreover one Low floor tram can infact take the load of 4 busses in > a single go. > > My sugesstion is to implement the HiTech Low Floor Trams in all > existing BRT corridors as the concept of BRT as unimpelmentable in > dense traffic locations like in India. > > ****Mail ends**** > > > > Regards, > > Anupam Gupta > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1400 - Release Date: 27/04/2008 09:39 > > From madhav.g.badami at mcgill.ca Mon Apr 28 22:16:34 2008 From: madhav.g.badami at mcgill.ca (Madhav Badami, Prof.) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 09:16:34 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: Planning for accessibility in Indian cities ... References: Message-ID: <45AEE06A4800AF4FAD8BEF09C433D85F0632592C@EXCHANGE2VS2.campus.mcgill.ca> Hello Sudhir, and greetings all, Inspired by your earlier Sustran posting in March on the sorry state (and utter disregard) of pedestrian infrastructure in Bangalore, and by my own harrowing experience as a pedestrian in that and other Indian cities, I wrote an article titled "Urban Transport: Accesibility for All is the Way Forward", which the Times of India carried in their Bangalore edition on April 1 (I was pleasantly surprised that they did, given their strong car-highway-metro bias). I posted a message on Sustran last week with the Times of India piece attached. But because the file size was large (the article included a photo I took of pedestrians stuck in the middle of traffic on Bannerghatta Road, off of which I was staying in Bangalore), it was not sent out to the Sustran mailing list. Luckily, I have discovered that my article (without the photo) has been featured by the Urban Study Group. The web link is below: http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/urbanstudygroup/2008-April/003058.html Comments are welcome. While I was in India, I also hammered home the importance of pedestrian accessibility in a presentation I made to the recently constituted Bangalore Metropolitan Land Transport Authority (BMLTA), and in a public event on urban transport in Chennai. I guess what we need is for lots of us to persistently make our case (in the media and other forums), and hope for the best. Madhav ************************************************************************ "As for the future, your task is not to foresee, but to enable it." Antoine de Saint-Exupery Madhav G. Badami, PhD School of Urban Planning and McGill School of Environment McGill University Macdonald-Harrington Building 815 Sherbrooke Street West Montreal, QC, H3A 2K6, Canada Phone: 514-398-3183 (Work); 514-486-2370 (Home) Fax: 514-398-8376; 514-398-1643 URLs: www.mcgill.ca/urbanplanning www.mcgill.ca/mse e-mail: madhav.badami@mcgill.ca ________________________________ From: sustran-discuss-bounces+madhav.g.badami=mcgill.ca@list.jca.apc.org on behalf of sudhir gota Sent: Mon 4/28/2008 2:31 AM To: sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org Subject: [sustran] Re ; BRTS in delhi Dear all, I would also try to pitch in- though a bit late, Bangalore plans to spend 42.44% of its entire infrastructure investment for next 16 years on Metros. Pedestrians have been alloted a mere 0.6% of total investment. Bangalore is due for elections and Metro has found its place in couple of parties manifestos. Being on the other side of fence for long and working on several "Infrastructure Development Projects" in India, had never seen even a single project being economically and financially unviable. Regards Sudhir _________________________________________________________________ Tried the new MSN Messenger? It's cool! Download now. http://messenger.msn.com/Download/Default.aspx?mkt=en-in -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From madhav.g.badami at mcgill.ca Mon Apr 28 22:34:20 2008 From: madhav.g.badami at mcgill.ca (Madhav Badami, Prof.) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 09:34:20 -0400 Subject: [sustran] FW: BRT petition References: Message-ID: <45AEE06A4800AF4FAD8BEF09C433D85F0632592D@EXCHANGE2VS2.campus.mcgill.ca> Dear all, Dunu Roy, noted environmentalist and social activist, and Director of the Hazard Centre in New Delhi, has prepared a petition to protest the sustained anti-BRT campaign and the personal vilification of Dinesh Mohan and Geetam Tiwari of IIT Delhi by the Times of India. He wishes to send the signed petition (see below) to the Times of India in the next few hours. If you wish to sign it, please confirm directly to Dunu Roy (at qadeeroy@gmail.com) that you wish to do so. Madhav ************************************************************************ "As for the future, your task is not to foresee, but to enable it." Antoine de Saint-Exupery Madhav G. Badami, PhD School of Urban Planning and McGill School of Environment McGill University Macdonald-Harrington Building 815 Sherbrooke Street West Montreal, QC, H3A 2K6, Canada Phone: 514-398-3183 (Work); 514-486-2370 (Home) Fax: 514-398-8376; 514-398-1643 URLs: www.mcgill.ca/urbanplanning www.mcgill.ca/mse e-mail: madhav.badami@mcgill.ca ________________________________ From: Dunu Roy [mailto:qadeeroy@gmail.com] Sent: Sat 4/26/2008 2:14 PM To: Anhad; Bose Krishnendu; Shreekant Gupta; himanshu upadhyaya; Ramaswamy R.Iyer; Arun Kumar; kasturi sen; Madhav Badami, Prof.; ncsaxena@vsnl.net; sunita@cseindia.org; Vandana Shiva; vibha arora; Vinay Baindur Subject: BRT petition Dear fellow scientists and friends, We are sending you a letter addressed to the Times of India, which is attached, protesting against the vilification campaign being carried out against two of our colleagues in the Indian Institute of Delhi who are trying to uphold the best traditions of people-supportive research. Such innuendo hurts us all and denigrates the value of all science. Please do let us know by return mail if you would agree to sign this letter, giving your name and designation. Please do also circulate to others who may wish to sign the letter. Thanking you in anticipation Dunu Roy, Imrana Qadeer To The Editor The Times of India Bahadur Shah Zafar Marg New Delhi 110002 The High Capacity Bus System has found many ardent advocates the world over as a relatively inexpensive and efficient mass transport system. Renamed - somewhat incorrectly - as the Bus Rapid Transport (BRT) in the city of Delhi, it has been designed not only for the most widely used form of public transport (the bus carries about 40% of the 15 million passenger trips per day in the city), but also provides demarcated space for the cyclist and the pedestrian (who account for another 42%), while leaving a substantial two lanes for the private cars and two/three-wheelers (which account for the remaining 8% and 10% respectively). Nevertheless, some media channels - particularly the Times of India - have been carrying on a sustained campaign against the first BRT corridor being constructed in Delhi calling it, amongst other things, a "manic mess", "killer corridor", and "Tughluqian disaster". These various newspapers and television channels (who seem to be more intent on being newsmakers) are legitimately entitled to present the views of various citizens groups - although it is striking that most of the 'citizens' interviewed are private car owners - but there is also an ethical limit to how the news and views should be presented. The recent front-page headline in the Times of India of April 25, 2008, reads, "IIT dept behind BRT gets funds from bus makers" and accuses "Dinesh Mohan and Geetam Tiwari from IIT-D's Transport Research and Injury Prevention Programme" of being patronised by the "Volvo Education Research Foundation and Ford Motor Company". We would, firstly, like to point out that it is the Government of India's stated policy to encourage all public science research institutions to raise their own funds from charitable trusts and foundations and industry and not depend solely upon the University Grants Commission - and this is part of the process of 'liberalisation' that has been enthusiastically supported and promoted by the editors of many newspapers, including the Times of India. Secondly, to resort to this kind of journalistic innuendo that, therefore, all scientific research must inevitably follow the dictates of the funding agencies casts grave aspersions on the character of objective research conducted at recognised world-class institutions like the IIT. Using discredited methods of rapid opinion-polls, which are known to be biased and a popular means of market promotion, the Times of India is challenging a system based on sound scientific research, in a clear effort to protect the interests of a minority of car drivers, without clarifying what is the rational basis for their 'research' methodology, nor what is the source of their inspiration. We condemn, in no uncertain terms, this violation of journalistic ethics by a daily that claims the pride of being India's widest read English newspaper and demand that the editors immediately publish an unqualified apology to the concerned scientists. Dunu Roy, Director, Hazards Centre, Delhi Imrana Qadeer, ex-Professor, JNU, Delhi From edelman at greenidea.eu Mon Apr 28 22:40:17 2008 From: edelman at greenidea.eu (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 15:40:17 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Re: Ultra Low Floor Tram v/s BRTS In-Reply-To: <277885F0F07B4674882A3AE78C9A41D1@MicroPro271007> References: <006e01c8a92c$177fb640$467f22c0$@com> <277885F0F07B4674882A3AE78C9A41D1@MicroPro271007> Message-ID: <4815D3C1.3050205@greenidea.eu> Hi all, Trams and light-rail: Negatives: * Much higher than BRT implementation cost per vehicle and for infrastructure * Less flexible than BRT (but more flexible than it used to be, as they can have onboard energy for short distances, plus much better with bicycle feeders/eaters) * Overhead lines can be unsightly (there are alternatives but they are costly) Positives: * Lower operating cost than BRT (less energy, fewer drivers). Energy from braking can go back into overhead lines (hybrid buses can do similar or course) OR can someone prove otherwise? * Flexible source of energy (whatever fires up a power plant. Hopefully not coal, of course, but I have been told that an electrical truck in London powered by coal still creates less emissions than a newer Diesel truck. For example, biogas is much more efficient for transport converted into electricity, than it is if carried on a vehicle. Diesel and natural gas prices will be going up, up, up...) * Trams can last 40 years with a mid-life rebuild * Prettier than buses, and more interesting looking, and "higher class" than buses, even the nicest ones * Rubber-tyred versions available (for steep gradients) * Can be quieter than buses * Once implemented, very hard to remove (politically and technically) - T Brendan Finn wrote: > Dear all, > > The original message contains two fairly standard pieces of disinformation from the tram lobby : > > 1) The suggestion that the tram is rather cheap really > 2) The suggestion that bus can't do the job but tram can > > I am no longer surprised either by the brass-neck of the lobby, or that decision-takers and the media continue to fall for it. > > With best wishes, > > > Brendan. > _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________ > Brendan Finn e-mail : etts@indigo.ie tel : +353.87.2530286 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Anupam Gupta" > To: > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 1:33 PM > Subject: [sustran] Ultra Low Floor Tram v/s BRTS > > > >> Hi Everyone - I've just received the mail below on a Metro Mailing Group. >> Since I'm not an expert in these matters, I thought I'd ask the group here >> if they had any idea on the merits of a "Hi-Tech Ultra Low Floor Tram" over >> the BRTS. Thanks very much for your time. >> >> >> >> ****Mail starts**** >> >> Just a reminder to all the readers, the BRT as a concept has already >> being implemented in Pune City. It was the first BRT corridor in >> India and its sucessfully running in 2 corridors namely Katraj- >> Swargate and Hadapsar- Swargate, with 6 more corridors being planned >> and under design. >> >> There were indeed few snags even in Pune, but yet the project went >> ahed and currently stands as in "running" condition. >> >> On second thgoughts, a Ultra low floor Tram can be implemented >> instead of a BRT. in the same BRT corridor, its both cheaper than a >> Metro rail and monorail, as well as better blended in road trafic >> than normal rail and metro transport. Several cities and towns in >> Europe and Asia sucessfully run Hi-Tech Ultra lowfloor Trams. >> >> Infact a few of "sucesfull" BRT corridors over a period of time >> ultmately have infact moved either to Light Rail Systems or Ultra Low >> Floor Trams. >> >> The closeness of the low floor tram to the rail track and road >> surface as well as the usage of a overhead pentograph instead of a >> third rail as in a Metro rail makes is more suitable to blend easily >> in city trafic along other modes of road transport. >> >> Moreover one Low floor tram can infact take the load of 4 busses in >> a single go. >> >> My sugesstion is to implement the HiTech Low Floor Trams in all >> existing BRT corridors as the concept of BRT as unimpelmentable in >> dense traffic locations like in India. >> >> ****Mail ends**** >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Anupam Gupta >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. >> >> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. >> >> ================================================================ >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). >> >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG. >> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1400 - Release Date: 27/04/2008 09:39 >> >> >> > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). > > -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunni 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic Skype: toddedelman ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 edelman@greenidea.eu http://greenideafactory.blogspot.com/ www.flickr.com/photos/edelman Green Idea Factory is a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net CAR is over. If you WANT it. From sudhirgota at gmail.com Mon Apr 28 23:36:27 2008 From: sudhirgota at gmail.com (sudhir gota) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 20:06:27 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: Planning for accessibility in Indian cities ... In-Reply-To: <45AEE06A4800AF4FAD8BEF09C433D85F0632592C@EXCHANGE2VS2.campus.mcgill.ca> References: <45AEE06A4800AF4FAD8BEF09C433D85F0632592C@EXCHANGE2VS2.campus.mcgill.ca> Message-ID: Dear Sir and Sustran members, In fact inspired by your lecture in IIM-Bangalore on 26/2/2008, i completed my paper on Pedestrians and published in CAI Asia website. please follow the link, http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia/1412/article-72580.html The logic of crying baby getting all the attention is true for infrastructure also. The more the publicity- the more people accept it. Due to excellent publicity by metro lobby, many in Bangalore consider metro as the magic wand which will solve all the congestion problems. With Warm Regards Sudhir On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 6:46 PM, Madhav Badami, Prof. < madhav.g.badami@mcgill.ca> wrote: > Hello Sudhir, and greetings all, > > Inspired by your earlier Sustran posting in March on the sorry state (and > utter disregard) of pedestrian infrastructure in Bangalore, and by my own > harrowing experience as a pedestrian in that and other Indian > cities, I wrote an article titled "Urban Transport: Accesibility for All > is the Way Forward", which the Times of India carried in their Bangalore > edition on April 1 (I was pleasantly surprised that they did, given their > strong car-highway-metro bias). I posted a message on Sustran last week with > the Times of India piece attached. But because the file size was large (the > article included a photo I took of pedestrians stuck in the middle of > traffic on > Bannerghatta Road, off of which I was staying in Bangalore), it was not > sent out to the Sustran mailing list. Luckily, I have discovered that my > article (without the photo) has been featured by the Urban Study Group. The > web link is below: > > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/urbanstudygroup/2008-April/003058.html < > https://exchange.mcgill.ca/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/urbanstudygroup/2008-April/003058.html > > > > > > Comments are welcome. > > > > While I was in India, I also hammered home the importance of pedestrian > accessibility in a > presentation I made to the recently constituted Bangalore Metropolitan > Land Transport Authority (BMLTA), and in a public event on urban > transport in Chennai. I guess what we need is for lots of us to > persistently make our case (in the media and other forums), and hope for > the best. > > Madhav > > > ************************************************************************ > > "As for the future, your task is not to foresee, but to enable it." > Antoine de Saint-Exupery > > Madhav G. Badami, PhD > School of Urban Planning and McGill School of Environment > McGill University > Macdonald-Harrington Building > 815 Sherbrooke Street West > Montreal, QC, H3A 2K6, Canada > > Phone: 514-398-3183 (Work); 514-486-2370 (Home) > Fax: 514-398-8376; 514-398-1643 > URLs: www.mcgill.ca/urbanplanning > www.mcgill.ca/mse > e-mail : madhav.badami@mcgill.ca > > ________________________________ > > From: sustran-discuss-bounces+madhav.g.badami=mcgill.ca@list.jca.apc.orgon behalf of sudhir gota > Sent: Mon 4/28/2008 2:31 AM > To: sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org > Subject: [sustran] Re ; BRTS in delhi > > > > > > Dear all, > > I would also try to pitch in- though a > bit late, > > Bangalore plans to spend 42.44% of its > entire infrastructure investment for next 16 years on Metros. > Pedestrians have been alloted a mere 0.6% of total investment. > > Bangalore is due for elections and > Metro has found its place in couple of parties manifestos. > > Being on the other side of fence for > long and working on several "Infrastructure Development Projects" in > India, > had never seen even a single project being economically and financially > unviable. > > Regards > Sudhir > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Tried the new MSN Messenger? It's cool! Download now. > http://messenger.msn.com/Download/Default.aspx?mkt=en-in > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to > join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The > yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the > real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you > can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to > join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The > yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the > real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you > can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > From whook at itdp.org Tue Apr 29 00:19:09 2008 From: whook at itdp.org (Walter Hook) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:19:09 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: Bogota's time machine In-Reply-To: <7e2a2770804271919t4ab9ada6mcb1c4b608cee978e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001101c8a943$37607370$3601a8c0@DFJLYL81> Well, if the Mayor carries through on the proposals, then perhaps Penalosa should run again next time. Maybe the public will be screaming for him to come back. w. -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of Cornie Huizenga Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 10:19 PM To: sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org Subject: [sustran] Re: Bogota's time machine Dear Carlos, Thanks for this sobering update. It clearly demonstrates the importance of intensifying advocacy for a systems change approach to urban transport. I expect that at BAQ 2008 we will be able to have a discussion on the need for and (the how-to) of such a systems change approach. In Asia we now have a large number of BRT's on the drawing board or in partial operation. How do we ensure that this becomes part of a sustained comprehensive change and that we avoid a Bogota like situation. Cornie Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 18:33:52 +0800 > From: Carlosfelipe Pardo > Subject: [sustran] Bogot?'s time machine > To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport > > Message-ID: <48130510.7020006@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Hi, > > There have been a lot of rumors regarding Bogot?'s "fate" in terms of > transport, and a lot has happened in the last months. Some may be > interested in knowing more about it. I will do my best to summarize the > key issues of this "time machine" towards the past (I would say > somewhere around the 80s) that our city has started to experience in > terms of transport policy and practice. It's based on the latest > "development" plan of the city, press announcements and a recent meeting > I attended where the new Secretary of Mobility described their projects > in some detail. If anyone would like to correct or add something, > they're most welcome: > > *BRT and Metro*: As with Curitiba, many rail promoters are very > interested in developing a rail system for Bogot?. This in itself isn't > too bad. The bad thing is that one strategy has been to discredit the > xistent BRT systems. This story is very long, so I won't get into it. > For Bogot?, the current mayor won the elections partly because he > promised to build a metro, and because the BRT's > 6-people-per-square-meter operations had people doubting about its > efficacy as a mass transit system. However, the mayor has never said (or > maybe doesn't know) that a metro will have the same operation > characteristics, but at a much higher cost. However, a bid for studies > to develop the metro will be open soon (two weeks ago, 42 companies > expressed their interest in taking part in such a study), financed with > loans from development banks. In this regard, the World Bank has told > the municipality clearly that they should be very careful about > developing a rail system due to the known risks of such a system. > At the same time, the mobility secretary has said "we cannot build more > BRT (TransMilenio) because we have no more money". Strange but > true...more about financing below. Regarding the BRT's operation and > structure, they have also announced that they will "improve" operations, > mainly by changing the financial structure and (see this!) possibly by > changing the payment to operators by kilometers to another scheme (by > passengers? that could take us 10 years back in just a couple of months). > Finally, they have just announced that, on the "S?ptima" Avenue (where > plans for BRT phase III had been fully designed already), they will > build a "busway" (not a BRT, but a busway, like the one that proved that > this scheme would not work in Bogot?, in the 1980s and 1990s). They said > this will enhance the (fare) integration of the new integrated scheme > they are proposing, which they say would be ready in one year. For such > a scheme, IADB is providing a grant to the city. > > *Parking: *Last week, they have also announced that, due to congestion, > cruising, and delivery truck problems, they will now "solve everything" > by opening up parking bays in the city, AT NO COST. I told the Secretary > of Mobility that this would just increase congestion if they didn't do a > proper parking pricing policy, but he answered "I can't charge users for > parking if I don't have good public transport"... Chicken and egg > problem # 1. Further, one must note that sidewalks which were previously > built are now being partially torn down by some shop owners, etc. Ah, > but I have to be fair: cars can only park a maximum of 3 hours in the > newly opened parking bays. > > *Roads and Highways: *Yet another idea of the current administration has > been to say that, to solve the current deterioration of the current > roads, they will build new roads with the "innovative model" of a > concession. Yes, there is something strange here also: new roads to > solve the deterioration of old roads. I suggested they concession the > maintenance of the existing roads, and charge for their use while using > the charge to invest in public transport and partially solve the > financing problem described below. However, this wasn't seen as viable > or useful or even logical. It's also relevant to note that, since they > have started to prioritize traffic management, traffic police are now > overriding red phases for intersections on the BRT and pushing cars to > the limit of the intersection (yes, on top of the pedestrian crossing > /zebra). > > *Bikeways: *When the Chamber of Commerce asked the Secretary of Mobility > about the role of bicycles in the transport system, he said "I never > thought a bicycle could be part of a transport system". However, he went > on a trip to Europe to learn about transport measures, and his > conclusion about bicycles was that they are only feasible to use in the > Netherlands, where the average trip distance is 2km. Thus, Bogot? should > not promote bicycles (despite the existent 340kms of fully segregated > bikeways and its 8-fold increase in use since their implementation). > > *Land use*: The last related measure proposed is that they will build an > intercity train. The argument the Secretary of Mobility has given is > that "people want to live in suburbs and leave the noise and pollution > of the city". That is, the city is inevitable noisy and filthy, so the > people who can afford it should do their best to live as far away as > possible... and the city must cater the needs of those oh unfortunate > rich people. A lesson on equity. > > *Financing the system*: During elections, the candidate for mayor said > he would finance all transport improvements (metro, road network) with > the funds gathered from traffic violations (e.g. "tickets"). Now they > have seen that this is not viable, so they say that all development > banks are "begging" them to take a loan, which would be payable starting > 2015... Also, they have reminded us that concession highways pay for > themselves... > > *Politics*: As if the above were not enough to demonstrate how Bogot? > will go back to the stone age in transport, there are also heavy > political battles involved. In summary: any proposal that sounds like > sustainable transport (livability, equity, less car use, more bicycles, > more public transport) will be labeled "Pe?alosa" and they will say you > come from his political party. Of course, under this administration all > doors will be closed if you just mention that name, since he was the > opposing candidate to the current mayor. > I would also say that the current plans to stop further development of > transmilenio and do busways is a deliberate attempt to stop any project > that had to do with Pe?alosa, as if the development of a city had > someone's name attached to it, the current Bogot? with wide sidewalks > and bikeways is dubbed "Pe?alosa's city". And, since local GDP has > increased significantly and USD exchange rate has dropped, everyone > has/wants to have a car (loans are also pretty easy to get) and hates > any anti-car measure. > > Ok, and for those who have heard about the Sunday carfree day (Ciclov?a) > from 7am to 2pm, a congressman has proposed a law that will limit the > time of the Ciclovia to 12 noon, and should start at 5am, despite the > fact that at least 1million users are using the ciclov?a from 11 to 2pm. > His argument: many people suffer from the congestion of those 117 km, > and bikeways aren't used during that time (according to him). So, > following this rationale, a recreational measure has to pay for the > excessive car use in the city. > > That's it, in a nutshell. Sorry for the black hat, but I thought it > would be useful to describe the status quo of Bogot?'s transport. If all > goes as planned, we will be back in 1980 by the end of this > administration, but we'll have the additional problems: a huge loan on > an inexistent subway, unprecedented population of cars and motorcycles > and the expected increased pollution, injuries, deaths in road accidents > or from respiratory problems, and a dirty, inefficient and congested city. > > What to do? Comments are most welcome. > > Best regards, > > -- > Carlosfelipe Pardo > > > -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From edelman at greenidea.eu Tue Apr 29 01:06:34 2008 From: edelman at greenidea.eu (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 18:06:34 +0200 Subject: [sustran] Re: Bogota's time machine In-Reply-To: <001101c8a943$37607370$3601a8c0@DFJLYL81> References: <001101c8a943$37607370$3601a8c0@DFJLYL81> Message-ID: <4815F60A.40908@greenidea.eu> Despite the after-introduction popularity of the measures which Penalosa pushed in, and as I understand it some tangible support for this (polls, votes, referenda?), is it possible that because they were not (substantially) grassroots in the first place they are non-sustainable, thus permitting the new administration to start rolling stuff back? Despite every news article about Transmillenio (also Ciclovia) in Bogota showing happy and articulate people, do these people really "own" these concepts? Also, Carlos, your report does not mention land use (specifically designing for proximity), so is the problem that Bogota is still a huge, monocentric city which simply encourages long trips (which means many new car trips, especially with weak dollar)? Greener transport is one thing, nice public squares are another, but density/polycentric development is yet another, and I have never been clear on how Bogota is handling that, because, as we all know, you can't solve bad design with good transport. Thanks for the report, T Walter Hook wrote: > Well, if the Mayor carries through on the proposals, then perhaps Penalosa > should run again next time. Maybe the public will be screaming for him to > come back. > > w. > > -----Original Message----- > From: sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf > Of Cornie Huizenga > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 10:19 PM > To: sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org > Subject: [sustran] Re: Bogota's time machine > > Dear Carlos, > > Thanks for this sobering update. It clearly demonstrates the importance of > intensifying advocacy for a systems change approach to urban transport. I > expect that at BAQ 2008 we will be able to have a discussion on the need for > and (the how-to) of such a systems change approach. In Asia we now have a > large number of BRT's on the drawing board or in partial operation. How do > we ensure that this becomes part of a sustained comprehensive change and > that we avoid a Bogota like situation. > > Cornie > > Message: 1 > >> Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 18:33:52 +0800 >> From: Carlosfelipe Pardo >> Subject: [sustran] Bogot?'s time machine >> To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport >> >> Message-ID: <48130510.7020006@gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> Hi, >> >> There have been a lot of rumors regarding Bogot?'s "fate" in terms of >> transport, and a lot has happened in the last months. Some may be >> interested in knowing more about it. I will do my best to summarize the >> key issues of this "time machine" towards the past (I would say >> somewhere around the 80s) that our city has started to experience in >> terms of transport policy and practice. It's based on the latest >> "development" plan of the city, press announcements and a recent meeting >> I attended where the new Secretary of Mobility described their projects >> in some detail. If anyone would like to correct or add something, >> they're most welcome: >> >> *BRT and Metro*: As with Curitiba, many rail promoters are very >> interested in developing a rail system for Bogot?. This in itself isn't >> too bad. The bad thing is that one strategy has been to discredit the >> xistent BRT systems. This story is very long, so I won't get into it. >> For Bogot?, the current mayor won the elections partly because he >> promised to build a metro, and because the BRT's >> 6-people-per-square-meter operations had people doubting about its >> efficacy as a mass transit system. However, the mayor has never said (or >> maybe doesn't know) that a metro will have the same operation >> characteristics, but at a much higher cost. However, a bid for studies >> to develop the metro will be open soon (two weeks ago, 42 companies >> expressed their interest in taking part in such a study), financed with >> loans from development banks. In this regard, the World Bank has told >> the municipality clearly that they should be very careful about >> developing a rail system due to the known risks of such a system. >> At the same time, the mobility secretary has said "we cannot build more >> BRT (TransMilenio) because we have no more money". Strange but >> true...more about financing below. Regarding the BRT's operation and >> structure, they have also announced that they will "improve" operations, >> mainly by changing the financial structure and (see this!) possibly by >> changing the payment to operators by kilometers to another scheme (by >> passengers? that could take us 10 years back in just a couple of months). >> Finally, they have just announced that, on the "S?ptima" Avenue (where >> plans for BRT phase III had been fully designed already), they will >> build a "busway" (not a BRT, but a busway, like the one that proved that >> this scheme would not work in Bogot?, in the 1980s and 1990s). They said >> this will enhance the (fare) integration of the new integrated scheme >> they are proposing, which they say would be ready in one year. For such >> a scheme, IADB is providing a grant to the city. >> >> *Parking: *Last week, they have also announced that, due to congestion, >> cruising, and delivery truck problems, they will now "solve everything" >> by opening up parking bays in the city, AT NO COST. I told the Secretary >> of Mobility that this would just increase congestion if they didn't do a >> proper parking pricing policy, but he answered "I can't charge users for >> parking if I don't have good public transport"... Chicken and egg >> problem # 1. Further, one must note that sidewalks which were previously >> built are now being partially torn down by some shop owners, etc. Ah, >> but I have to be fair: cars can only park a maximum of 3 hours in the >> newly opened parking bays. >> >> *Roads and Highways: *Yet another idea of the current administration has >> been to say that, to solve the current deterioration of the current >> roads, they will build new roads with the "innovative model" of a >> concession. Yes, there is something strange here also: new roads to >> solve the deterioration of old roads. I suggested they concession the >> maintenance of the existing roads, and charge for their use while using >> the charge to invest in public transport and partially solve the >> financing problem described below. However, this wasn't seen as viable >> or useful or even logical. It's also relevant to note that, since they >> have started to prioritize traffic management, traffic police are now >> overriding red phases for intersections on the BRT and pushing cars to >> the limit of the intersection (yes, on top of the pedestrian crossing >> /zebra). >> >> *Bikeways: *When the Chamber of Commerce asked the Secretary of Mobility >> about the role of bicycles in the transport system, he said "I never >> thought a bicycle could be part of a transport system". However, he went >> on a trip to Europe to learn about transport measures, and his >> conclusion about bicycles was that they are only feasible to use in the >> Netherlands, where the average trip distance is 2km. Thus, Bogot? should >> not promote bicycles (despite the existent 340kms of fully segregated >> bikeways and its 8-fold increase in use since their implementation). >> >> *Land use*: The last related measure proposed is that they will build an >> intercity train. The argument the Secretary of Mobility has given is >> that "people want to live in suburbs and leave the noise and pollution >> of the city". That is, the city is inevitable noisy and filthy, so the >> people who can afford it should do their best to live as far away as >> possible... and the city must cater the needs of those oh unfortunate >> rich people. A lesson on equity. >> >> *Financing the system*: During elections, the candidate for mayor said >> he would finance all transport improvements (metro, road network) with >> the funds gathered from traffic violations (e.g. "tickets"). Now they >> have seen that this is not viable, so they say that all development >> banks are "begging" them to take a loan, which would be payable starting >> 2015... Also, they have reminded us that concession highways pay for >> themselves... >> >> *Politics*: As if the above were not enough to demonstrate how Bogot? >> will go back to the stone age in transport, there are also heavy >> political battles involved. In summary: any proposal that sounds like >> sustainable transport (livability, equity, less car use, more bicycles, >> more public transport) will be labeled "Pe?alosa" and they will say you >> come from his political party. Of course, under this administration all >> doors will be closed if you just mention that name, since he was the >> opposing candidate to the current mayor. >> I would also say that the current plans to stop further development of >> transmilenio and do busways is a deliberate attempt to stop any project >> that had to do with Pe?alosa, as if the development of a city had >> someone's name attached to it, the current Bogot? with wide sidewalks >> and bikeways is dubbed "Pe?alosa's city". And, since local GDP has >> increased significantly and USD exchange rate has dropped, everyone >> has/wants to have a car (loans are also pretty easy to get) and hates >> any anti-car measure. >> >> Ok, and for those who have heard about the Sunday carfree day (Ciclov?a) >> from 7am to 2pm, a congressman has proposed a law that will limit the >> time of the Ciclovia to 12 noon, and should start at 5am, despite the >> fact that at least 1million users are using the ciclov?a from 11 to 2pm. >> His argument: many people suffer from the congestion of those 117 km, >> and bikeways aren't used during that time (according to him). So, >> following this rationale, a recreational measure has to pay for the >> excessive car use in the city. >> >> That's it, in a nutshell. Sorry for the black hat, but I thought it >> would be useful to describe the status quo of Bogot?'s transport. If all >> goes as planned, we will be back in 1980 by the end of this >> administration, but we'll have the additional problems: a huge loan on >> an inexistent subway, unprecedented population of cars and motorcycles >> and the expected increased pollution, injuries, deaths in road accidents >> or from respiratory problems, and a dirty, inefficient and congested city. >> >> What to do? Comments are most welcome. >> >> Best regards, >> >> -- >> Carlosfelipe Pardo >> >> >> >> > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join > the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups > version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real > sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). > Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). > > -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunni 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic Skype: toddedelman ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 edelman@greenidea.eu http://greenideafactory.blogspot.com/ www.flickr.com/photos/edelman Green Idea Factory is a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net CAR is over. If you WANT it. From bruun at seas.upenn.edu Tue Apr 29 06:59:02 2008 From: bruun at seas.upenn.edu (bruun at seas.upenn.edu) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:59:02 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: BRTS in Delhi In-Reply-To: <4cfd20aa0804270328q3215c523ga08c49270a095ea6@mail.gmail.com> References: <4cfd20aa0804250038k343da7cama026aaa2bfe99972@mail.gmail.com> <4cfd20aa0804250041n56b7aca1td97093e8cd486d3c@mail.gmail.com> <20080426214839.ww8ircdfacso84cc@webmail.seas.upenn.edu> <4cfd20aa0804270328q3215c523ga08c49270a095ea6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080428175902.3z54of00040c8o80@webmail.seas.upenn.edu> Sujit 3.1 million per day is unrealistic. It always was. That doesn't make Metro a bad idea just because someone made bad predictions. But 600,000 is not insignificant. You can argue that BRT would be better value for money, but how much has been built? Both BRT and the Metro were authorized in 1997. One is working and making a valuable contribution, the other still is not. Yet, we keep hearing that BRT can be done quickly and Metros take forever. Eric Bruun Quoting Sujit Patwardhan : > Dear Eric, > > 65 Kilometers is correct. And the ridership of 600,000 *is* "abysmal" when > compared to the project projection of over 3.1 million. When projects > involving huge sums (of people's money) are invested in a project meant to > produce specific result it is highly objectionable when the actual figures > fall short not by 5% or 10% but by over 80%. > > This is how most *non viable* projects are cooked up whether they be Mega > Dams or Transportation / Urban infrastructure projects. If the ridership of > 3.1 million seems ridiculous, why did the Govt sanction the project, > particularly when much cheaper options were available? > > I don't think figures of ridership on the Washington Metro are quite > relevant to Asian countries with much higher population densities. Pune > Municipal Transport buses of very poor quality, for instance carry over > 600,000 commuters each day. They do this with about 650 buses which are of > old technology, and in poor condition of upkeep. We feel Pune with about > 2000 modern semi low floor and efficient buses would be able to provide > excellent quality public transport with a citywide network. If the city were > to provide the same coverage by Metro we will need 10 years or more to make > it functional and be certainly driven to bankruptcy. And everyone knows that > Bogota's Transmilenio carries more passengers than the Washington Metro at > a much lower cost . > > So there are serious problems with Metro but politicians love expensive > projects and this is supported by the elites who want to keep up with the > Jones's. They say if Bangkok can have a Metro why not India? Much like the > juvenile boast of "mine's bigger than yours" . > I think we need to move beyond that and face the hard reality of a choice > between car dominated "business as usual" scenario and the alternative "New > Mobility" vision that honours walking, cycling and affordable public > transport system -- best of which today appears to be the BRT. > > -- > Sujit > > > > > > > On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 7:18 AM, wrote: > >> Aashish >> >> Thanks for the ridership figure. (I think the 65 km is out of date. It >> was 66 kms 3 years ago.) >> >> The reason I was asking is that Sujit said the ridership was >> "abysmal." But 600,000 persons for 66 kms is actually pretty crowded. >> The Washington Metro is 105 miles (over 160 kms) and several of the >> lines are genuinely crush loaded during the rush hours with only >> 700,000 passengers per day. Admittedly, people in the U.S. tend to be >> larger than in India, which also aggravates the crowding. >> >> As for an estimate of 3.1 Million, this seems ridiculous. Of course, >> it isn't going to meet that. Maybe if the fare was assumed to be very >> low and crowding standards were extreme...... >> >> Eric >> >> >> >> >> >> Quoting Sujit Patwardhan : >> >> > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> > From: Sujit Patwardhan >> > Date: Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 1:08 PM >> > Subject: Re: [pttfgen:1409] BRTS in Delhi >> > To: pttfgen@googlegroups.com >> > >> > >> > 25 April 2008 >> > >> > >> > BRT in Delhi >> > ========= >> > >> > Yes problems galore and I've been following the reports in the media >> > including the CNN IBN that Ashok Datar was to appear on, but didn't for >> some >> > reason. >> > >> > My take on all this is as follows: >> > >> > Deterioration in traffic has been an ongoing process in many Asian >> cities >> > for the last 3 decades or more. Like the frog sitting in a beaker of >> water >> > being slowly heated it has not had an occasion to "explode". Metro was >> taken >> > up and executed brilliantly by Mr. E Sridharan, with attention to the >> > minutest detail and a free hand guaranteeing "no interference" from >> > politicians. On top of that every lapse and overshooting of budgets as >> well >> > as abysmally poor ridership compared to the projected figures was >> pardoned >> > by a supportive Govt and compensated from additional funds made >> available >> > without delay and cloaked in secrecy. >> > >> > *Delhi Metro project is a marketing triumph that fills every Indian's >> chest >> > with pride*. However, how much travel-coverage (as Public Transport) the >> > very expensive Metro will be able to provide is a big question mark. >> There >> > is also the real possibility that the amount spent on the Metro >> represents >> > lost opportunity for other investments - like libraries and cultural >> > centres, gardens, public spaces and other amenities needed by the city. >> *But >> > in the final analysis we should accept that the Metro is pubic transport >> and >> > hence we must support it* unlike the eight lane highways, flyovers, >> > multistory car parks and other infrastructures being *routinely provided >> by >> > the city as subsidy to ever growing number of car and 2 wheeler owners >> at >> > the cost of other more efficient modes of travel.* >> > >> > BRT unlike the Metro has to deal with the existing conditions on our >> roads. >> > Of indiscipline, rampant irregularities, encroachments, poor >> engineering, >> > lack of understanding about the rights of pedestrians, cyclists and non >> > personal auto users. So if the road surface is poor BRT is blamed, if >> > drivers are indisciplined BRT is blamed, if a car stalls in the MV lane >> and >> > clogs up the traffic it is perceived as a problem caused by the BRT. If >> the >> > BRT lanes look empty (as indeed they will - considering each bus carries >> > many more people), it is seen as waste of an expensive resource -- >> although >> > not many of these critics complained much all these years about the >> *wasteful >> > use of resources when low occupancy cars filled up these very roads* - >> well >> > before BRT appeared on the scene. >> > >> > So it is clear that BRT planning should have been rooted in outreach and >> > marketing it as a concept that will improve mobility (of people as >> against >> > just near-empty personal vehicles), will greatly improve access for >> people >> > who are today helpless captive users of uncomfortable and outdated >> buses, it >> > will provide an option to those who are forced to use personal >> transport, >> > not necessarily out of choice but compulsion, and as benefits of a >> growing >> > BRT network becomes visible and better, more comfortable and even A/C >> buses >> > start plying on the BRT corridors, the higher middle class and even the >> rich >> > will have no problem patronizing this mode for purely rational reasons >> of >> > getting a faster, more punctual, comfortable and stress-free mode of >> travel. >> > >> > >> > This indeed is the situation in many cities in Europe and while we have >> no >> > qualms about importing western concepts (English medium education, >> wearing >> > suits and tie however uncomfortable they may be in our weather, >> listening to >> > western music, eating the big Mac (ughhh) and even importing >> Cheerleaders >> > for our newly formed Cricket Series) why do we suddenly start protesting >> > when our capital city tries to copy a Western/ Latin American idea of >> > excellent bus system/BRT calling it a foreign concept?????? >> > >> > The need is to publicise wider benefits of public transport and to reach >> the >> > *majority *of citizens who are users/potential users of *bus based >> public >> > transport, cycling and walking* in the city. (It is they who will >> benefit >> > most from a good BRT) >> > >> > It is this huge majority of commuters who will have the opportunity of >> > breaking free from the shackles of our present horrendous conditions of >> > urban traffic. >> > >> > So let's not worry too much about the high pitched screams coming from >> the >> > pampered lot of car users (and to some extent from two wheelers) >> protesting >> > against dedicated BRT lanes taking away *their* road space, and let's >> reach >> > the gagged-majority who have been at the receiving end of the stick ever >> > since our cities became car-dominated *and if necessary bring them on >> the >> > roads to block the MV lanes and put the personal cars in their place. >> > >> > *Does this sound extreme? Not when contrasted with the obscene arrogant >> rant >> > coming from Mr Chandan Mitra - representing the car >> lobby/media/politician >> > clique on the recent CNN IBN TV report about the mess accompanying the >> BRT >> > trials in Delhi. >> > >> > -- >> > Sujit >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 10:35 AM, Abhay Patil >> wrote: >> > >> >> Looks like BRTS in Delhi has reached a flash point. From the visuals >> (CNN >> >> IBN, newspapers) it looks like Delhi's implementation is no better than >> >> Pune. Empty BRTS lanes, sloppy junctions, ordinary bus stops and so >> on. I >> >> don't know what went amiss in the capital. Sheila Dixit has promised >> that >> >> she would make an all out effort to remove the glitches in a few weeks. >> >> Most important - she has said that she would not hesitate to drop the >> >> project if they are unable to get their act together right away. >> >> >> >> On a positive note - everybody is looking at BRTS now. On a negative >> note >> >> - it is appears to be quite a tall order to fix it. Given the ugly >> traffic >> >> jams and vociferousness of folks like journalist MP Chandan Mitra - it >> is >> >> quite likely that the baby would be thrown out with the bath water! >> And, >> >> that would have serious repercussions on BRTS in other cities. I can >> not >> >> imagine the cacophony that would ensue once that happens... >> >> >> >> -Abhay >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups >> >> "PTTF General" group. >> >> To post to this group, send email to pttfgen@googlegroups.com >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >> pttfgen-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> >> For more options, visit this group at >> >> http://groups.google.co.in/group/pttfgen?hl=en >> >> -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > -- >> > ------------------------------------------------------ >> > Sujit Patwardhan >> > sujitjp@gmail.com >> > >> > "Yamuna", >> > ICS Colony, >> > Ganeshkhind Road, >> > Pune 411 007 >> > India >> > Tel: +91 20 25537955 >> > Cell: +91 98220 26627 >> > ----------------------------------------------------- >> > Hon. Secretary: >> > Parisar >> > www.parisar.org >> > ------------------------------------------------------ >> > Founder Member: >> > PTTF >> > (Pune Traffic & Transportation Forum) >> > www.pttf.net >> > ------------------------------------------------------ >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > ------------------------------------------------------ >> > Sujit Patwardhan >> > sujitjp@gmail.com >> > >> > "Yamuna", >> > ICS Colony, >> > Ganeshkhind Road, >> > Pune 411 007 >> > India >> > Tel: +91 20 25537955 >> > Cell: +91 98220 26627 >> > ----------------------------------------------------- >> > Hon. Secretary: >> > Parisar >> > www.parisar.org >> > ------------------------------------------------------ >> > Founder Member: >> > PTTF >> > (Pune Traffic & Transportation Forum) >> > www.pttf.net >> > ------------------------------------------------------ >> > -------------------------------------------------------- >> > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via >> YAHOOGROUPS. >> > >> > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss >> > to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. >> > The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot >> > post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site >> > makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. >> > >> > ================================================================ >> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing >> > countries (the 'Global South'). >> > >> > >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via >> YAHOOGROUPS. >> >> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to >> join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The >> yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the >> real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you >> can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. >> >> ================================================================ >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries >> (the 'Global South'). >> > > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------ > Sujit Patwardhan > sujitjp@gmail.com > > "Yamuna", > ICS Colony, > Ganeshkhind Road, > Pune 411 007 > India > Tel: +91 20 25537955 > Cell: +91 98220 26627 > ----------------------------------------------------- > Hon. Secretary: > Parisar > www.parisar.org > ------------------------------------------------------ > Founder Member: > PTTF > (Pune Traffic & Transportation Forum) > www.pttf.net > ------------------------------------------------------ > From etts at indigo.ie Tue Apr 29 07:35:26 2008 From: etts at indigo.ie (Brendan Finn) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 23:35:26 +0100 Subject: [sustran] Re: BRTS in Delhi In-Reply-To: <20080428175902.3z54of00040c8o80@webmail.seas.upenn.edu> References: <4cfd20aa0804250038k343da7cama026aaa2bfe99972@mail.gmail.com><4cfd20aa0804250041n56b7aca1td97093e8cd486d3c@mail.gmail.com><20080426214839.ww8ircdfacso84cc@webmail.seas.upenn.edu><4cfd20aa0804270328q3215c523ga08c49270a095ea6@mail.gmail.com> <20080428175902.3z54of00040c8o80@webmail.seas.upenn.edu> Message-ID: Dear Eric, When a very large amount of public money is sanctioned based on a projection which turns out to be 5 times higher than the actual out-turn, there is something seriously wrong. And not just with the math. Patronage and financial projections for rail-based systems are very seriously wrong time and time again. Are you telling us that consultants didn't learn after the first few occasions and are incapable of revising their methodologies? A lot of metro and rail projects around the world get approved on dodgy math and wildly-optimistic assumptions which don't come to pass. It is systematic within the sector. This is gross and wilful deception, aided and abetted by companies that present themselves as professionals. Whether or not it is a nice metro does not excuse such practices. With best wishes, Brendan. _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Brendan Finn e-mail : etts@indigo.ie tel : +353.87.2530286 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Sujit Patwardhan" Cc: "Global 'South' Sustainable Transport" Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 10:59 PM Subject: [sustran] Re: BRTS in Delhi > Sujit > > 3.1 million per day is unrealistic. It always was. That doesn't make > Metro a bad idea just because someone made bad predictions. > > But 600,000 is not insignificant. You can argue that BRT would be > better value for money, but how much has been built? Both BRT and the > Metro were authorized in 1997. One is working and making a valuable > contribution, the other still is not. Yet, we keep hearing that BRT > can be done quickly and Metros take forever. > > Eric Bruun > > Quoting Sujit Patwardhan : > >> Dear Eric, >> >> 65 Kilometers is correct. And the ridership of 600,000 *is* "abysmal" when >> compared to the project projection of over 3.1 million. When projects >> involving huge sums (of people's money) are invested in a project meant to >> produce specific result it is highly objectionable when the actual figures >> fall short not by 5% or 10% but by over 80%. >> >> This is how most *non viable* projects are cooked up whether they be Mega >> Dams or Transportation / Urban infrastructure projects. If the ridership of >> 3.1 million seems ridiculous, why did the Govt sanction the project, >> particularly when much cheaper options were available? >> >> I don't think figures of ridership on the Washington Metro are quite >> relevant to Asian countries with much higher population densities. Pune >> Municipal Transport buses of very poor quality, for instance carry over >> 600,000 commuters each day. They do this with about 650 buses which are of >> old technology, and in poor condition of upkeep. We feel Pune with about >> 2000 modern semi low floor and efficient buses would be able to provide >> excellent quality public transport with a citywide network. If the city were >> to provide the same coverage by Metro we will need 10 years or more to make >> it functional and be certainly driven to bankruptcy. And everyone knows that >> Bogota's Transmilenio carries more passengers than the Washington Metro at >> a much lower cost . >> >> So there are serious problems with Metro but politicians love expensive >> projects and this is supported by the elites who want to keep up with the >> Jones's. They say if Bangkok can have a Metro why not India? Much like the >> juvenile boast of "mine's bigger than yours" . >> I think we need to move beyond that and face the hard reality of a choice >> between car dominated "business as usual" scenario and the alternative "New >> Mobility" vision that honours walking, cycling and affordable public >> transport system -- best of which today appears to be the BRT. >> >> -- >> Sujit >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 7:18 AM, wrote: >> >>> Aashish >>> >>> Thanks for the ridership figure. (I think the 65 km is out of date. It >>> was 66 kms 3 years ago.) >>> >>> The reason I was asking is that Sujit said the ridership was >>> "abysmal." But 600,000 persons for 66 kms is actually pretty crowded. >>> The Washington Metro is 105 miles (over 160 kms) and several of the >>> lines are genuinely crush loaded during the rush hours with only >>> 700,000 passengers per day. Admittedly, people in the U.S. tend to be >>> larger than in India, which also aggravates the crowding. >>> >>> As for an estimate of 3.1 Million, this seems ridiculous. Of course, >>> it isn't going to meet that. Maybe if the fare was assumed to be very >>> low and crowding standards were extreme...... >>> >>> Eric >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Quoting Sujit Patwardhan : >>> >>> > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>> > From: Sujit Patwardhan >>> > Date: Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 1:08 PM >>> > Subject: Re: [pttfgen:1409] BRTS in Delhi >>> > To: pttfgen@googlegroups.com >>> > >>> > >>> > 25 April 2008 >>> > >>> > >>> > BRT in Delhi >>> > ========= >>> > >>> > Yes problems galore and I've been following the reports in the media >>> > including the CNN IBN that Ashok Datar was to appear on, but didn't for >>> some >>> > reason. >>> > >>> > My take on all this is as follows: >>> > >>> > Deterioration in traffic has been an ongoing process in many Asian >>> cities >>> > for the last 3 decades or more. Like the frog sitting in a beaker of >>> water >>> > being slowly heated it has not had an occasion to "explode". Metro was >>> taken >>> > up and executed brilliantly by Mr. E Sridharan, with attention to the >>> > minutest detail and a free hand guaranteeing "no interference" from >>> > politicians. On top of that every lapse and overshooting of budgets as >>> well >>> > as abysmally poor ridership compared to the projected figures was >>> pardoned >>> > by a supportive Govt and compensated from additional funds made >>> available >>> > without delay and cloaked in secrecy. >>> > >>> > *Delhi Metro project is a marketing triumph that fills every Indian's >>> chest >>> > with pride*. However, how much travel-coverage (as Public Transport) the >>> > very expensive Metro will be able to provide is a big question mark. >>> There >>> > is also the real possibility that the amount spent on the Metro >>> represents >>> > lost opportunity for other investments - like libraries and cultural >>> > centres, gardens, public spaces and other amenities needed by the city. >>> *But >>> > in the final analysis we should accept that the Metro is pubic transport >>> and >>> > hence we must support it* unlike the eight lane highways, flyovers, >>> > multistory car parks and other infrastructures being *routinely provided >>> by >>> > the city as subsidy to ever growing number of car and 2 wheeler owners >>> at >>> > the cost of other more efficient modes of travel.* >>> > >>> > BRT unlike the Metro has to deal with the existing conditions on our >>> roads. >>> > Of indiscipline, rampant irregularities, encroachments, poor >>> engineering, >>> > lack of understanding about the rights of pedestrians, cyclists and non >>> > personal auto users. So if the road surface is poor BRT is blamed, if >>> > drivers are indisciplined BRT is blamed, if a car stalls in the MV lane >>> and >>> > clogs up the traffic it is perceived as a problem caused by the BRT. If >>> the >>> > BRT lanes look empty (as indeed they will - considering each bus carries >>> > many more people), it is seen as waste of an expensive resource -- >>> although >>> > not many of these critics complained much all these years about the >>> *wasteful >>> > use of resources when low occupancy cars filled up these very roads* - >>> well >>> > before BRT appeared on the scene. >>> > >>> > So it is clear that BRT planning should have been rooted in outreach and >>> > marketing it as a concept that will improve mobility (of people as >>> against >>> > just near-empty personal vehicles), will greatly improve access for >>> people >>> > who are today helpless captive users of uncomfortable and outdated >>> buses, it >>> > will provide an option to those who are forced to use personal >>> transport, >>> > not necessarily out of choice but compulsion, and as benefits of a >>> growing >>> > BRT network becomes visible and better, more comfortable and even A/C >>> buses >>> > start plying on the BRT corridors, the higher middle class and even the >>> rich >>> > will have no problem patronizing this mode for purely rational reasons >>> of >>> > getting a faster, more punctual, comfortable and stress-free mode of >>> travel. >>> > >>> > >>> > This indeed is the situation in many cities in Europe and while we have >>> no >>> > qualms about importing western concepts (English medium education, >>> wearing >>> > suits and tie however uncomfortable they may be in our weather, >>> listening to >>> > western music, eating the big Mac (ughhh) and even importing >>> Cheerleaders >>> > for our newly formed Cricket Series) why do we suddenly start protesting >>> > when our capital city tries to copy a Western/ Latin American idea of >>> > excellent bus system/BRT calling it a foreign concept?????? >>> > >>> > The need is to publicise wider benefits of public transport and to reach >>> the >>> > *majority *of citizens who are users/potential users of *bus based >>> public >>> > transport, cycling and walking* in the city. (It is they who will >>> benefit >>> > most from a good BRT) >>> > >>> > It is this huge majority of commuters who will have the opportunity of >>> > breaking free from the shackles of our present horrendous conditions of >>> > urban traffic. >>> > >>> > So let's not worry too much about the high pitched screams coming from >>> the >>> > pampered lot of car users (and to some extent from two wheelers) >>> protesting >>> > against dedicated BRT lanes taking away *their* road space, and let's >>> reach >>> > the gagged-majority who have been at the receiving end of the stick ever >>> > since our cities became car-dominated *and if necessary bring them on >>> the >>> > roads to block the MV lanes and put the personal cars in their place. >>> > >>> > *Does this sound extreme? Not when contrasted with the obscene arrogant >>> rant >>> > coming from Mr Chandan Mitra - representing the car >>> lobby/media/politician >>> > clique on the recent CNN IBN TV report about the mess accompanying the >>> BRT >>> > trials in Delhi. >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Sujit >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 10:35 AM, Abhay Patil >>> wrote: >>> > >>> >> Looks like BRTS in Delhi has reached a flash point. From the visuals >>> (CNN >>> >> IBN, newspapers) it looks like Delhi's implementation is no better than >>> >> Pune. Empty BRTS lanes, sloppy junctions, ordinary bus stops and so >>> on. I >>> >> don't know what went amiss in the capital. Sheila Dixit has promised >>> that >>> >> she would make an all out effort to remove the glitches in a few weeks. >>> >> Most important - she has said that she would not hesitate to drop the >>> >> project if they are unable to get their act together right away. >>> >> >>> >> On a positive note - everybody is looking at BRTS now. On a negative >>> note >>> >> - it is appears to be quite a tall order to fix it. Given the ugly >>> traffic >>> >> jams and vociferousness of folks like journalist MP Chandan Mitra - it >>> is >>> >> quite likely that the baby would be thrown out with the bath water! >>> And, >>> >> that would have serious repercussions on BRTS in other cities. I can >>> not >>> >> imagine the cacophony that would ensue once that happens... >>> >> >>> >> -Abhay >>> >> >>> >> From bruun at seas.upenn.edu Tue Apr 29 10:18:54 2008 From: bruun at seas.upenn.edu (bruun at seas.upenn.edu) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:18:54 -0400 Subject: [sustran] Re: BRTS in Delhi In-Reply-To: References: <4cfd20aa0804250038k343da7cama026aaa2bfe99972@mail.gmail.com><4cfd20aa0804250041n56b7aca1td97093e8cd486d3c@mail.gmail.com><20080426214839.ww8ircdfacso84cc@webmail.seas.upenn.edu><4cfd20aa0804270328q3215c523ga08c49270a095ea6@mail.gmail.com> <20080428175902.3z54of00040c8o80@webmail.seas.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <20080428211854.2flsgmnuw0gowowo@webmail.seas.upenn.edu> Brendan Did I say I defend such estimates? I don't know the history of who sanctioned the estimates, but I don't automatically blame consultants or the industry. Sometimes it is the politicians who hunt around for someone who will say what they want to hear. This estimate should never have been taken seriously. I also know that in some cases the fares changed dramatically from the original assumptions, important destinations get deleted, etc. As I have said before, I am not opposing BRT. But my main point still holds, I think. It is pretty unfair to say that a 65 km system carrying 600,000 per day is "abysmal" by comparing it to the hypothetical performance of BRT that is currently carrying about 0 passengers, 10 years after both projects were initiated. I also think it is short-sighted to not take into account the long-term impacts on sustainability. This can also justify higher initial capital costs. If rail succeeds in supporting densification of land use, this benefit will last for perpetuity. This would make a good topic for future discussion. Eric Bruun I Quoting Brendan Finn : > Dear Eric, > > When a very large amount of public money is sanctioned based on a > projection which turns out to be 5 times higher than the actual > out-turn, there is something seriously wrong. And not just with the > math. Patronage and financial projections for rail-based systems > are very seriously wrong time and time again. Are you telling us > that consultants didn't learn after the first few occasions and are > incapable of revising their methodologies? > > A lot of metro and rail projects around the world get approved on > dodgy math and wildly-optimistic assumptions which don't come to > pass. It is systematic within the sector. This is gross and wilful > deception, aided and abetted by companies that present themselves as > professionals. Whether or not it is a nice metro does not excuse > such practices. > > With best wishes, > > > Brendan. > _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________ > Brendan Finn e-mail : etts@indigo.ie tel : +353.87.2530286 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Sujit Patwardhan" > Cc: "Global 'South' Sustainable Transport" > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 10:59 PM > Subject: [sustran] Re: BRTS in Delhi > > >> Sujit >> >> 3.1 million per day is unrealistic. It always was. That doesn't make >> Metro a bad idea just because someone made bad predictions. >> >> But 600,000 is not insignificant. You can argue that BRT would be >> better value for money, but how much has been built? Both BRT and the >> Metro were authorized in 1997. One is working and making a valuable >> contribution, the other still is not. Yet, we keep hearing that BRT >> can be done quickly and Metros take forever. >> >> Eric Bruun >> >> Quoting Sujit Patwardhan : >> >>> Dear Eric, >>> >>> 65 Kilometers is correct. And the ridership of 600,000 *is* "abysmal" when >>> compared to the project projection of over 3.1 million. When projects >>> involving huge sums (of people's money) are invested in a project meant to >>> produce specific result it is highly objectionable when the actual figures >>> fall short not by 5% or 10% but by over 80%. >>> >>> This is how most *non viable* projects are cooked up whether they be Mega >>> Dams or Transportation / Urban infrastructure projects. If the ridership of >>> 3.1 million seems ridiculous, why did the Govt sanction the project, >>> particularly when much cheaper options were available? >>> >>> I don't think figures of ridership on the Washington Metro are quite >>> relevant to Asian countries with much higher population densities. Pune >>> Municipal Transport buses of very poor quality, for instance carry over >>> 600,000 commuters each day. They do this with about 650 buses which are of >>> old technology, and in poor condition of upkeep. We feel Pune with about >>> 2000 modern semi low floor and efficient buses would be able to provide >>> excellent quality public transport with a citywide network. If the >>> city were >>> to provide the same coverage by Metro we will need 10 years or more to make >>> it functional and be certainly driven to bankruptcy. And everyone >>> knows that >>> Bogota's Transmilenio carries more passengers than the Washington Metro at >>> a much lower cost . >>> >>> So there are serious problems with Metro but politicians love expensive >>> projects and this is supported by the elites who want to keep up with the >>> Jones's. They say if Bangkok can have a Metro why not India? Much like the >>> juvenile boast of "mine's bigger than yours" . >>> I think we need to move beyond that and face the hard reality of a choice >>> between car dominated "business as usual" scenario and the alternative "New >>> Mobility" vision that honours walking, cycling and affordable public >>> transport system -- best of which today appears to be the BRT. >>> >>> -- >>> Sujit >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 7:18 AM, wrote: >>> >>>> Aashish >>>> >>>> Thanks for the ridership figure. (I think the 65 km is out of date. It >>>> was 66 kms 3 years ago.) >>>> >>>> The reason I was asking is that Sujit said the ridership was >>>> "abysmal." But 600,000 persons for 66 kms is actually pretty crowded. >>>> The Washington Metro is 105 miles (over 160 kms) and several of the >>>> lines are genuinely crush loaded during the rush hours with only >>>> 700,000 passengers per day. Admittedly, people in the U.S. tend to be >>>> larger than in India, which also aggravates the crowding. >>>> >>>> As for an estimate of 3.1 Million, this seems ridiculous. Of course, >>>> it isn't going to meet that. Maybe if the fare was assumed to be very >>>> low and crowding standards were extreme...... >>>> >>>> Eric >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Quoting Sujit Patwardhan : >>>> >>>> > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>> > From: Sujit Patwardhan >>>> > Date: Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 1:08 PM >>>> > Subject: Re: [pttfgen:1409] BRTS in Delhi >>>> > To: pttfgen@googlegroups.com >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > 25 April 2008 >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > BRT in Delhi >>>> > ========= >>>> > >>>> > Yes problems galore and I've been following the reports in the media >>>> > including the CNN IBN that Ashok Datar was to appear on, but didn't for >>>> some >>>> > reason. >>>> > >>>> > My take on all this is as follows: >>>> > >>>> > Deterioration in traffic has been an ongoing process in many Asian >>>> cities >>>> > for the last 3 decades or more. Like the frog sitting in a beaker of >>>> water >>>> > being slowly heated it has not had an occasion to "explode". Metro was >>>> taken >>>> > up and executed brilliantly by Mr. E Sridharan, with attention to the >>>> > minutest detail and a free hand guaranteeing "no interference" from >>>> > politicians. On top of that every lapse and overshooting of budgets as >>>> well >>>> > as abysmally poor ridership compared to the projected figures was >>>> pardoned >>>> > by a supportive Govt and compensated from additional funds made >>>> available >>>> > without delay and cloaked in secrecy. >>>> > >>>> > *Delhi Metro project is a marketing triumph that fills every Indian's >>>> chest >>>> > with pride*. However, how much travel-coverage (as Public Transport) the >>>> > very expensive Metro will be able to provide is a big question mark. >>>> There >>>> > is also the real possibility that the amount spent on the Metro >>>> represents >>>> > lost opportunity for other investments - like libraries and cultural >>>> > centres, gardens, public spaces and other amenities needed by the city. >>>> *But >>>> > in the final analysis we should accept that the Metro is pubic transport >>>> and >>>> > hence we must support it* unlike the eight lane highways, flyovers, >>>> > multistory car parks and other infrastructures being *routinely provided >>>> by >>>> > the city as subsidy to ever growing number of car and 2 wheeler owners >>>> at >>>> > the cost of other more efficient modes of travel.* >>>> > >>>> > BRT unlike the Metro has to deal with the existing conditions on our >>>> roads. >>>> > Of indiscipline, rampant irregularities, encroachments, poor >>>> engineering, >>>> > lack of understanding about the rights of pedestrians, cyclists and non >>>> > personal auto users. So if the road surface is poor BRT is blamed, if >>>> > drivers are indisciplined BRT is blamed, if a car stalls in the MV lane >>>> and >>>> > clogs up the traffic it is perceived as a problem caused by the BRT. If >>>> the >>>> > BRT lanes look empty (as indeed they will - considering each bus carries >>>> > many more people), it is seen as waste of an expensive resource -- >>>> although >>>> > not many of these critics complained much all these years about the >>>> *wasteful >>>> > use of resources when low occupancy cars filled up these very roads* - >>>> well >>>> > before BRT appeared on the scene. >>>> > >>>> > So it is clear that BRT planning should have been rooted in outreach and >>>> > marketing it as a concept that will improve mobility (of people as >>>> against >>>> > just near-empty personal vehicles), will greatly improve access for >>>> people >>>> > who are today helpless captive users of uncomfortable and outdated >>>> buses, it >>>> > will provide an option to those who are forced to use personal >>>> transport, >>>> > not necessarily out of choice but compulsion, and as benefits of a >>>> growing >>>> > BRT network becomes visible and better, more comfortable and even A/C >>>> buses >>>> > start plying on the BRT corridors, the higher middle class and even the >>>> rich >>>> > will have no problem patronizing this mode for purely rational reasons >>>> of >>>> > getting a faster, more punctual, comfortable and stress-free mode of >>>> travel. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > This indeed is the situation in many cities in Europe and while we have >>>> no >>>> > qualms about importing western concepts (English medium education, >>>> wearing >>>> > suits and tie however uncomfortable they may be in our weather, >>>> listening to >>>> > western music, eating the big Mac (ughhh) and even importing >>>> Cheerleaders >>>> > for our newly formed Cricket Series) why do we suddenly start protesting >>>> > when our capital city tries to copy a Western/ Latin American idea of >>>> > excellent bus system/BRT calling it a foreign concept?????? >>>> > >>>> > The need is to publicise wider benefits of public transport and to reach >>>> the >>>> > *majority *of citizens who are users/potential users of *bus based >>>> public >>>> > transport, cycling and walking* in the city. (It is they who will >>>> benefit >>>> > most from a good BRT) >>>> > >>>> > It is this huge majority of commuters who will have the opportunity of >>>> > breaking free from the shackles of our present horrendous conditions of >>>> > urban traffic. >>>> > >>>> > So let's not worry too much about the high pitched screams coming from >>>> the >>>> > pampered lot of car users (and to some extent from two wheelers) >>>> protesting >>>> > against dedicated BRT lanes taking away *their* road space, and let's >>>> reach >>>> > the gagged-majority who have been at the receiving end of the stick ever >>>> > since our cities became car-dominated *and if necessary bring them on >>>> the >>>> > roads to block the MV lanes and put the personal cars in their place. >>>> > >>>> > *Does this sound extreme? Not when contrasted with the obscene arrogant >>>> rant >>>> > coming from Mr Chandan Mitra - representing the car >>>> lobby/media/politician >>>> > clique on the recent CNN IBN TV report about the mess accompanying the >>>> BRT >>>> > trials in Delhi. >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > Sujit >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 10:35 AM, Abhay Patil >>>> wrote: >>>> > >>>> >> Looks like BRTS in Delhi has reached a flash point. From the visuals >>>> (CNN >>>> >> IBN, newspapers) it looks like Delhi's implementation is no better than >>>> >> Pune. Empty BRTS lanes, sloppy junctions, ordinary bus stops and so >>>> on. I >>>> >> don't know what went amiss in the capital. Sheila Dixit has promised >>>> that >>>> >> she would make an all out effort to remove the glitches in a few weeks. >>>> >> Most important - she has said that she would not hesitate to drop the >>>> >> project if they are unable to get their act together right away. >>>> >> >>>> >> On a positive note - everybody is looking at BRTS now. On a negative >>>> note >>>> >> - it is appears to be quite a tall order to fix it. Given the ugly >>>> traffic >>>> >> jams and vociferousness of folks like journalist MP Chandan Mitra - it >>>> is >>>> >> quite likely that the baby would be thrown out with the bath water! >>>> And, >>>> >> that would have serious repercussions on BRTS in other cities. I can >>>> not >>>> >> imagine the cacophony that would ensue once that happens... >>>> >> >>>> >> -Abhay >>>> >> >>>> >> > From Gmenckhoff at worldbank.org Tue Apr 29 10:09:35 2008 From: Gmenckhoff at worldbank.org (Gmenckhoff at worldbank.org) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:09:35 -0400 Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_[sustran]_Bogot=E1's_time_machine?= In-Reply-To: <48130510.7020006@gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Carlos, It is sad to read your tale of Bogot? ? a city that used to be in the forefront of urban transport innovation but that now is descending to the level of an average developing city, giving priority to the private automobile and seeking the transport solution in capital-intensive infrastructure projects. To add to your story, here is a recent observation: The BRT line along Caracas Avenue is the centerpiece of the TransMilenio system and has become famous for its high passenger volume (up to 44,000 passengers/direction in the peak hour). It is 8 km long in its busiest part, has two segregated bus lanes in each direction, and crosses 30 signalized intersections. In addition, it has four mixed-traffic lanes, two on each side of the central 2+2-lane busway. Since the beginning there have been problems with the busway pavement, and sections of it had to be replaced as the original concrete slabs failed. In the past, a mixed-traffic lane was given to the articulated buses when one of the busway lanes has to be closed for repairs. This was the correct arrangement considering the high passenger demand on the BRT, even though it reduced the capacity of the mixed-traffic roadway. That was until about 2006. Then, the city government changed its policy and now keeps the two mixed-traffic lanes open, even when one BRT lane is closed for repairs. As a consequence, huge queues of articulated buses form where the two BRT lanes funnel into a single one. During a recent evening peak, I was in one of those BRT traffic jams ? it took us 17 minutes to progress 1.5 km (i.e. a speed of 5 km/h) until the bus had reached the one-lane section, after which it proceeded at the usual speed. This is not a just brief phenomenon to fix a stretch of busway. The rehabilitation contract began in May 2007, and the repairs are being carried out sequentially ? thus reducing the busway capacity for a long time. No wonder people think that TransMilenio provides a bad service, and that a metro is needed! When inquiring why it was decided to keep reserving two mixed-traffic lanes to maintain a capacity for 5,000 car users/hour while forcing enormous delays on 30,000+ bus passengers being compressed into a single lane, I was told that this was an instruction of the city?s Mobility Secretariat. Does that decision reflect a misunderstanding of basic traffic engineering principles, or is it part of a deliberate strategy to discredit TransMilenio???? Attached are a few pictures, taken last week during the off-peak. (See attached file: Horse-drawn cart on mixed-traffic lane.JPG) (See attached file: 4 TransM buses and half-empty mixed-traffic lanes.JPG) (See attached file: 5 TransM buses and half-empty mixed-traffic lanes.JPG) Best regards, Gerhard Carlosfelipe Pardo To Sent by: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport sustran-discuss-bo unces+gmenckhoff=w cc orldbank.org@list. jca.apc.org Subject [sustran] Bogot?'s time machine 04/26/2008 06:34 AM Hi, There have been a lot of rumors regarding Bogot?'s "fate" in terms of transport, and a lot has happened in the last months. Some may be interested in knowing more about it. I will do my best to summarize the key issues of this "time machine" towards the past (I would say somewhere around the 80s) that our city has started to experience in terms of transport policy and practice. It's based on the latest "development" plan of the city, press announcements and a recent meeting I attended where the new Secretary of Mobility described their projects in some detail. If anyone would like to correct or add something, they're most welcome: *BRT and Metro*: As with Curitiba, many rail promoters are very interested in developing a rail system for Bogot?. This in itself isn't too bad. The bad thing is that one strategy has been to discredit the xistent BRT systems. This story is very long, so I won't get into it. For Bogot?, the current mayor won the elections partly because he promised to build a metro, and because the BRT's 6-people-per-square-meter operations had people doubting about its efficacy as a mass transit system. However, the mayor has never said (or maybe doesn't know) that a metro will have the same operation characteristics, but at a much higher cost. However, a bid for studies to develop the metro will be open soon (two weeks ago, 42 companies expressed their interest in taking part in such a study), financed with loans from development banks. In this regard, the World Bank has told the municipality clearly that they should be very careful about developing a rail system due to the known risks of such a system. At the same time, the mobility secretary has said "we cannot build more BRT (TransMilenio) because we have no more money". Strange but true...more about financing below. Regarding the BRT's operation and structure, they have also announced that they will "improve" operations, mainly by changing the financial structure and (see this!) possibly by changing the payment to operators by kilometers to another scheme (by passengers? that could take us 10 years back in just a couple of months). Finally, they have just announced that, on the "S?ptima" Avenue (where plans for BRT phase III had been fully designed already), they will build a "busway" (not a BRT, but a busway, like the one that proved that this scheme would not work in Bogot?, in the 1980s and 1990s). They said this will enhance the (fare) integration of the new integrated scheme they are proposing, which they say would be ready in one year. For such a scheme, IADB is providing a grant to the city. *Parking: *Last week, they have also announced that, due to congestion, cruising, and delivery truck problems, they will now "solve everything" by opening up parking bays in the city, AT NO COST. I told the Secretary of Mobility that this would just increase congestion if they didn't do a proper parking pricing policy, but he answered "I can't charge users for parking if I don't have good public transport"... Chicken and egg problem # 1. Further, one must note that sidewalks which were previously built are now being partially torn down by some shop owners, etc. Ah, but I have to be fair: cars can only park a maximum of 3 hours in the newly opened parking bays. *Roads and Highways: *Yet another idea of the current administration has been to say that, to solve the current deterioration of the current roads, they will build new roads with the "innovative model" of a concession. Yes, there is something strange here also: new roads to solve the deterioration of old roads. I suggested they concession the maintenance of the existing roads, and charge for their use while using the charge to invest in public transport and partially solve the financing problem described below. However, this wasn't seen as viable or useful or even logical. It's also relevant to note that, since they have started to prioritize traffic management, traffic police are now overriding red phases for intersections on the BRT and pushing cars to the limit of the intersection (yes, on top of the pedestrian crossing /zebra). *Bikeways: *When the Chamber of Commerce asked the Secretary of Mobility about the role of bicycles in the transport system, he said "I never thought a bicycle could be part of a transport system". However, he went on a trip to Europe to learn about transport measures, and his conclusion about bicycles was that they are only feasible to use in the Netherlands, where the average trip distance is 2km. Thus, Bogot? should not promote bicycles (despite the existent 340kms of fully segregated bikeways and its 8-fold increase in use since their implementation). *Land use*: The last related measure proposed is that they will build an intercity train. The argument the Secretary of Mobility has given is that "people want to live in suburbs and leave the noise and pollution of the city". That is, the city is inevitable noisy and filthy, so the people who can afford it should do their best to live as far away as possible... and the city must cater the needs of those oh unfortunate rich people. A lesson on equity. *Financing the system*: During elections, the candidate for mayor said he would finance all transport improvements (metro, road network) with the funds gathered from traffic violations (e.g. "tickets"). Now they have seen that this is not viable, so they say that all development banks are "begging" them to take a loan, which would be payable starting 2015... Also, they have reminded us that concession highways pay for themselves... *Politics*: As if the above were not enough to demonstrate how Bogot? will go back to the stone age in transport, there are also heavy political battles involved. In summary: any proposal that sounds like sustainable transport (livability, equity, less car use, more bicycles, more public transport) will be labeled "Pe?alosa" and they will say you come from his political party. Of course, under this administration all doors will be closed if you just mention that name, since he was the opposing candidate to the current mayor. I would also say that the current plans to stop further development of transmilenio and do busways is a deliberate attempt to stop any project that had to do with Pe?alosa, as if the development of a city had someone's name attached to it, the current Bogot? with wide sidewalks and bikeways is dubbed "Pe?alosa's city". And, since local GDP has increased significantly and USD exchange rate has dropped, everyone has/wants to have a car (loans are also pretty easy to get) and hates any anti-car measure. Ok, and for those who have heard about the Sunday carfree day (Ciclov?a) from 7am to 2pm, a congressman has proposed a law that will limit the time of the Ciclovia to 12 noon, and should start at 5am, despite the fact that at least 1million users are using the ciclov?a from 11 to 2pm. His argument: many people suffer from the congestion of those 117 km, and bikeways aren't used during that time (according to him). So, following this rationale, a recreational measure has to pay for the excessive car use in the city. That's it, in a nutshell. Sorry for the black hat, but I thought it would be useful to describe the status quo of Bogot?'s transport. If all goes as planned, we will be back in 1980 by the end of this administration, but we'll have the additional problems: a huge loan on an inexistent subway, unprecedented population of cars and motorcycles and the expected increased pollution, injuries, deaths in road accidents or from respiratory problems, and a dirty, inefficient and congested city. What to do? Comments are most welcome. Best regards, -- Carlosfelipe Pardo -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From bert.fabian at cai-asia.org Tue Apr 29 18:38:55 2008 From: bert.fabian at cai-asia.org (Bert Fabian) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:38:55 +0800 Subject: [sustran] Re: Bogota's time machine In-Reply-To: <4815F60A.40908@greenidea.eu> References: <001101c8a943$37607370$3601a8c0@DFJLYL81> <4815F60A.40908@greenidea.eu> Message-ID: <4816ECAF.7010103@cai-asia.org> Dear Carlos, Thanks indeed for your comprehensive insights on what's happening in Bogota. It is amazing that even in a city such as yours that has been able to make positive changes through integrated public transport, the future looks bleak because of political reasons. This issue doesn't only apply to Bogota and is also experienced in other cities, where opposing parties or individuals do not support the programs/ projects of the incumbent simply because they are rivals. Is there some sort of binding law or ordinance in Bogota which stipulates the prioritization of public transportation and non-motorized transport? And putting more resources for the improvement of the current system instead of building and integrating another system, like a metro? Maybe, with such policies and/or laws in place, such challenges can be avoided? The 44k pphpd peak ridership is already very high and most of the transportation planners in this side of the world (at least some that I've spoken to) sometimes cannot believe that this is possible with a BRT. This is already very much comparable to the urban rail systems we have in place in Metro Manila and I don't believe that adding a metro is the answer to the chronic congestion and air pollution problem. I guess, this is where the development banks can (should) also play a big role. If only their assistance in the urban sector can be geared more towards integrated public transport and non-motorized transport instead of capital intensive infrastructure projects... Best regards, Bert Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory wrote: > Despite the after-introduction popularity of the measures which Penalosa > pushed in, and as I understand it some tangible support for this (polls, > votes, referenda?), is it possible that because they were not > (substantially) grassroots in the first place they are non-sustainable, > thus permitting the new administration to start rolling stuff back? > Despite every news article about Transmillenio (also Ciclovia) in Bogota > showing happy and articulate people, do these people really "own" these > concepts? > > Also, Carlos, your report does not mention land use (specifically > designing for proximity), so is the problem that Bogota is still a huge, > monocentric city which simply encourages long trips (which means many > new car trips, especially with weak dollar)? Greener transport is one > thing, nice public squares are another, but density/polycentric > development is yet another, and I have never been clear on how Bogota is > handling that, because, as we all know, you can't solve bad design with > good transport. > > Thanks for the report, > T > > > > Walter Hook wrote: > >> Well, if the Mayor carries through on the proposals, then perhaps Penalosa >> should run again next time. Maybe the public will be screaming for him to >> come back. >> >> w. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org >> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf >> Of Cornie Huizenga >> Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 10:19 PM >> To: sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org >> Subject: [sustran] Re: Bogota's time machine >> >> Dear Carlos, >> >> Thanks for this sobering update. It clearly demonstrates the importance of >> intensifying advocacy for a systems change approach to urban transport. I >> expect that at BAQ 2008 we will be able to have a discussion on the need for >> and (the how-to) of such a systems change approach. In Asia we now have a >> large number of BRT's on the drawing board or in partial operation. How do >> we ensure that this becomes part of a sustained comprehensive change and >> that we avoid a Bogota like situation. >> >> Cornie >> >> Message: 1 >> >> >>> Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 18:33:52 +0800 >>> From: Carlosfelipe Pardo >>> Subject: [sustran] Bogot?'s time machine >>> To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport >>> >>> Message-ID: <48130510.7020006@gmail.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> There have been a lot of rumors regarding Bogot?'s "fate" in terms of >>> transport, and a lot has happened in the last months. Some may be >>> interested in knowing more about it. I will do my best to summarize the >>> key issues of this "time machine" towards the past (I would say >>> somewhere around the 80s) that our city has started to experience in >>> terms of transport policy and practice. It's based on the latest >>> "development" plan of the city, press announcements and a recent meeting >>> I attended where the new Secretary of Mobility described their projects >>> in some detail. If anyone would like to correct or add something, >>> they're most welcome: >>> >>> *BRT and Metro*: As with Curitiba, many rail promoters are very >>> interested in developing a rail system for Bogot?. This in itself isn't >>> too bad. The bad thing is that one strategy has been to discredit the >>> xistent BRT systems. This story is very long, so I won't get into it. >>> For Bogot?, the current mayor won the elections partly because he >>> promised to build a metro, and because the BRT's >>> 6-people-per-square-meter operations had people doubting about its >>> efficacy as a mass transit system. However, the mayor has never said (or >>> maybe doesn't know) that a metro will have the same operation >>> characteristics, but at a much higher cost. However, a bid for studies >>> to develop the metro will be open soon (two weeks ago, 42 companies >>> expressed their interest in taking part in such a study), financed with >>> loans from development banks. In this regard, the World Bank has told >>> the municipality clearly that they should be very careful about >>> developing a rail system due to the known risks of such a system. >>> At the same time, the mobility secretary has said "we cannot build more >>> BRT (TransMilenio) because we have no more money". Strange but >>> true...more about financing below. Regarding the BRT's operation and >>> structure, they have also announced that they will "improve" operations, >>> mainly by changing the financial structure and (see this!) possibly by >>> changing the payment to operators by kilometers to another scheme (by >>> passengers? that could take us 10 years back in just a couple of months). >>> Finally, they have just announced that, on the "S?ptima" Avenue (where >>> plans for BRT phase III had been fully designed already), they will >>> build a "busway" (not a BRT, but a busway, like the one that proved that >>> this scheme would not work in Bogot?, in the 1980s and 1990s). They said >>> this will enhance the (fare) integration of the new integrated scheme >>> they are proposing, which they say would be ready in one year. For such >>> a scheme, IADB is providing a grant to the city. >>> >>> *Parking: *Last week, they have also announced that, due to congestion, >>> cruising, and delivery truck problems, they will now "solve everything" >>> by opening up parking bays in the city, AT NO COST. I told the Secretary >>> of Mobility that this would just increase congestion if they didn't do a >>> proper parking pricing policy, but he answered "I can't charge users for >>> parking if I don't have good public transport"... Chicken and egg >>> problem # 1. Further, one must note that sidewalks which were previously >>> built are now being partially torn down by some shop owners, etc. Ah, >>> but I have to be fair: cars can only park a maximum of 3 hours in the >>> newly opened parking bays. >>> >>> *Roads and Highways: *Yet another idea of the current administration has >>> been to say that, to solve the current deterioration of the current >>> roads, they will build new roads with the "innovative model" of a >>> concession. Yes, there is something strange here also: new roads to >>> solve the deterioration of old roads. I suggested they concession the >>> maintenance of the existing roads, and charge for their use while using >>> the charge to invest in public transport and partially solve the >>> financing problem described below. However, this wasn't seen as viable >>> or useful or even logical. It's also relevant to note that, since they >>> have started to prioritize traffic management, traffic police are now >>> overriding red phases for intersections on the BRT and pushing cars to >>> the limit of the intersection (yes, on top of the pedestrian crossing >>> /zebra). >>> >>> *Bikeways: *When the Chamber of Commerce asked the Secretary of Mobility >>> about the role of bicycles in the transport system, he said "I never >>> thought a bicycle could be part of a transport system". However, he went >>> on a trip to Europe to learn about transport measures, and his >>> conclusion about bicycles was that they are only feasible to use in the >>> Netherlands, where the average trip distance is 2km. Thus, Bogot? should >>> not promote bicycles (despite the existent 340kms of fully segregated >>> bikeways and its 8-fold increase in use since their implementation). >>> >>> *Land use*: The last related measure proposed is that they will build an >>> intercity train. The argument the Secretary of Mobility has given is >>> that "people want to live in suburbs and leave the noise and pollution >>> of the city". That is, the city is inevitable noisy and filthy, so the >>> people who can afford it should do their best to live as far away as >>> possible... and the city must cater the needs of those oh unfortunate >>> rich people. A lesson on equity. >>> >>> *Financing the system*: During elections, the candidate for mayor said >>> he would finance all transport improvements (metro, road network) with >>> the funds gathered from traffic violations (e.g. "tickets"). Now they >>> have seen that this is not viable, so they say that all development >>> banks are "begging" them to take a loan, which would be payable starting >>> 2015... Also, they have reminded us that concession highways pay for >>> themselves... >>> >>> *Politics*: As if the above were not enough to demonstrate how Bogot? >>> will go back to the stone age in transport, there are also heavy >>> political battles involved. In summary: any proposal that sounds like >>> sustainable transport (livability, equity, less car use, more bicycles, >>> more public transport) will be labeled "Pe?alosa" and they will say you >>> come from his political party. Of course, under this administration all >>> doors will be closed if you just mention that name, since he was the >>> opposing candidate to the current mayor. >>> I would also say that the current plans to stop further development of >>> transmilenio and do busways is a deliberate attempt to stop any project >>> that had to do with Pe?alosa, as if the development of a city had >>> someone's name attached to it, the current Bogot? with wide sidewalks >>> and bikeways is dubbed "Pe?alosa's city". And, since local GDP has >>> increased significantly and USD exchange rate has dropped, everyone >>> has/wants to have a car (loans are also pretty easy to get) and hates >>> any anti-car measure. >>> >>> Ok, and for those who have heard about the Sunday carfree day (Ciclov?a) >>> from 7am to 2pm, a congressman has proposed a law that will limit the >>> time of the Ciclovia to 12 noon, and should start at 5am, despite the >>> fact that at least 1million users are using the ciclov?a from 11 to 2pm. >>> His argument: many people suffer from the congestion of those 117 km, >>> and bikeways aren't used during that time (according to him). So, >>> following this rationale, a recreational measure has to pay for the >>> excessive car use in the city. >>> >>> That's it, in a nutshell. Sorry for the black hat, but I thought it >>> would be useful to describe the status quo of Bogot?'s transport. If all >>> goes as planned, we will be back in 1980 by the end of this >>> administration, but we'll have the additional problems: a huge loan on >>> an inexistent subway, unprecedented population of cars and motorcycles >>> and the expected increased pollution, injuries, deaths in road accidents >>> or from respiratory problems, and a dirty, inefficient and congested city. >>> >>> What to do? Comments are most welcome. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> -- >>> Carlosfelipe Pardo >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via >> YAHOOGROUPS. >> >> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join >> the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups >> version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real >> sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). >> Apologies for the confusing arrangement. >> >> ================================================================ >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries >> (the 'Global South'). >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. >> >> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. >> >> ================================================================ >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). >> >> >> > > > From yanivbin at gmail.com Tue Apr 29 22:39:05 2008 From: yanivbin at gmail.com (Vinay Baindur) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:09:05 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Off with billboards, try vehicles:MoUD Govt In-Reply-To: <86b8a7050804290601u5179eb85n825f7d7e5a206d4e@mail.gmail.com> References: <86b8a7050804290601u5179eb85n825f7d7e5a206d4e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <86b8a7050804290639r4c49a532t411b82c3ec2c1643@mail.gmail.com> Has funding PT through billboards been tried out anywhere else. Hopefully clear up visual pollution But how will accidents come down if this is on the back of BUSES MEtros and Trains already have it anyway http://www.telegraphindia.com/1080429/jsp/nation/story_9203398.jsp# Off with billboards, try vehicles: Govt MANDIRA NAYAR A public bus displays an ad with pictures of actors Abhishek Bachchan and Priyanka Chopra in Mumbai on Monday. (Reuters) *New Delhi, April 27:* The urban development ministry has written to states asking them to remove billboards and get companies to advertise on public transport instead. "The money generated should be put in an urban transport fund," a senior official in the ministry said. "This fund will then be used to improve public transport." The move ? which will require states to change their advertising policy ? will go a long way in making roads safer, according to the ministry. "There have been court orders against hoardings," an official said. "They just add to visual pollution. Research has shown that they distract drivers. If these advertisements are put on moving vehicles, they will not cause any accidents." Chennai and Mumbai have already been ordered by the Supreme Court to clear the skyline of billboards. Several cities have been using public utilities as advertising space. Bus shelters in Delhi ? now gleaming in a new-age steel avatar ? have been beneficiaries of generous advertising. "Escalators in Hyderabad in certain areas have been financed through advertisement revenue," an official said. The New Delhi Municipal Council ? the civic agency responsible for Lutyens' Delhi ?has built toilets in the area only through money received from advertising. The ministry also wants states to formulate policies to reduce the number of private vehicles on roads. "It is important to improve the quality of buses in cities," the official said. "About 60 per cent of the people in cities travel by buses. But the buses currently in use in many cities are cages, fit only for animals." The Jawaharlal Nehru National Urban Renewal Mission ? under the urban development ministry ? has given funds to cities to improve their public transport, but there is still need for the system to be self-sustaining, the official said. A dedicated urban transport fund, set up with money from advertisements, will ensure that the process does not stop after the term of the five-year mission ends.