[sustran] Re: Sao Paulo trolley catenary

[Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory]

Hi,

bruun at seas.upenn.edu wrote:
> Todd:
>
> There aren't really options to overhead catenary for long routes. 
RIGHT, for emission-free transport.
>  One  
> can install batteries or an ICE for use for short distances. 
I AM sorry, what's ICE? Batteries and ultracapacitors are having some 
success as far as I understand.... in order to eliminate overhead lines 
in small historical areas.
> Concepts  
> involving ground pickup aren't proven reliable yet, especially in snow.
>   
RIGHT
> As far as the visual blight from trolley catenary goes, it is minimal.  
>   
IN Prague the visual blight from caternary for trams gets pretty intense 
sometimes... but at least it has a useful purpose unlike some other 
blights.
> There can sometimes be some clutter at an intersection where lines  
> cross and turns are made. There is also a good side to the visibility  
> of catenary -- it adds a sense of permanence just like rails, and it  
> also indicates which roads have frequent service.
>   
Seriously, things are getting more flexible (batteries, ultracaps, 
hybrid systems with diesel or especially gas generator sets) and I think 
prices will go down and quality will go up. Batteries might start to 
become standard in trams - some trolley buses have small engines to get 
through electrified areas - which will be a benefit for aesthetic 
reasons and also give maintenance people more flexibility to repair 
overhead lines in the middle of the day, etc.

Thanks,
T
> Eric Bruun
>
>
> Quoting "Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory" <edelman at greenidea.info>:
>
>   
>> Hi Walter,
>>
>> Walter Hook wrote:
>>     
>>> It has been a largely popular move in sao paulo, though i personally feel it
>>> is another example of what frequently happens in politics where instead of
>>> setting up some optimal and sensible regulatory structure the govt goes from
>>> one extreme of no regulation to another ezxtreme.
>>>       
>> CAN you please tell me how a place free of advertising is "extreme"?
>>
>>     
>>>  same mayor may pull down
>>> trolleybus wires because of visual pollution but with less savory impacts on
>>> other types of pollution.
>>>       
>> GOOD point, but there are solutions for getting electricity or power
>> from things besides overhead lines, for trams... and buses.
>>     
>>>  Velib deal w Decaux supposedly cut down the total
>>> number of billboards by some percentage, making the remaining ones more
>>> lucrative.
>>>       
>> LESS of bad thing, if that is true.
>>
>>     
>>>   TransMillenio as an agency now earning half its money from add
>>> revenue.
>>>
>>>       
>> PLEASE refer to Lloyd's email from the other day about public financing
>> and don't forget to take your anti-pragmatism/pro-solidarity vitamins.
>>
>> - T
>>
>> p.s. Could someone confirm Lloyd's estimate of Velib costing EUR 1
>> million to install in Paris? That figure seems low, but, if true, it is
>> about half of the price of ONE new tram or light-rail vehicle.
>>
>> p.p.s. For perspective, this
>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:FAC_kfir_flight.jpg> is a Colombian
>> Air Force Kfir fighter bought used from the Israeli Air Force. The price
>> new was 4.5 million dollars.
>>     
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org at list.jca.apc.org
>>> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org at list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf
>>> Of Lloyd Wright
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 3:17 PM
>>> To: 'Global 'South' Sustainable Transport'; 'WCN list'
>>> Subject: [sustran] Sao Paulo bans outdoor advertising
>>>
>>> Given the recent exchange regarding Paris Velib's proliferation of
>>> outdoor advertising, I thought the following article might be of
>>> interest.
>>>
>>> http://www.economist.com/business/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9963268
>>>
>>> Outdoor advertising
>>>
>>>
>>> Visual pollution
>>>
>>>
>>> Oct 11th 2007
>>> >From The Economist print edition
>>>
>>>       
>> [...]
>>
>> --
>> --------------------------------------------
>>
>> Todd Edelman
>> Director
>> Green Idea Factory
>>
>> Korunní 72
>> CZ-10100 Praha 10
>> Czech Republic
>>
>> Skype: toddedelman
>> ++420 605 915 970
>> ++420 222 517 832
>>
>> edelman at greenidea.eu
>> http://greenideafactory.blogspot.com/
>> www.flickr.com/photos/edelman
>>
>> Green Idea Factory is a member of World Carfree Network
>> www.worldcarfree.net
>>
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>> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,   
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>>
>>
>>     
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------- 
> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. 
>
> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement.
>
> ================================================================
> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). 


-- 
--------------------------------------------

Todd Edelman
Director
Green Idea Factory

Korunní 72
CZ-10100 Praha 10
Czech Republic

Skype: toddedelman
++420 605 915 970
++420 222 517 832

edelman at greenidea.eu
http://greenideafactory.blogspot.com/
www.flickr.com/photos/edelman

Green Idea Factory is a member of World Carfree Network
www.worldcarfree.net