From anupam9gupta at gmail.com Mon Nov 5 16:43:30 2007 From: anupam9gupta at gmail.com (Anupam Gupta) Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 13:13:30 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Tommy F on Tata's new car Message-ID: <000a01c81f7f$92da5930$b88f0b90$@com> Hi All - Remember we were discussing Dr. T. Chandrashekhar's (ex-chief of the MMRDA) planned law suit against the Tata Group's new US$2,500 small car to be launched in India? On the same topic, this is Thomas Friedman in the NYT . (link -http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/04/opinion/04friedman.html?_r=1&partner=rssn yt&emc=rss&oref=slogin ) November 4, 2007 Op-Ed Columnist No, No, No, Don't Follow Us By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN New Delhi India is in serious danger - no, not from Pakistan or internal strife. India is in danger from an Indian-made vehicle: a $2,500 passenger car, the world's cheapest. India's Tata Motors recently announced that it plans to begin turning out a four-door, four-seat, rear-engine car for $2,500 next year and hopes to sell one million of them annually, primarily to those living at the "bottom of the pyramid" in India and the developing world. Welcome to one of the emerging problems of the flat world: Blessedly, many more people now have the incomes to live an American lifestyle, and the Indian and Chinese low-cost manufacturing platforms can deliver them that lifestyle at lower and lower costs. But the energy and environmental implications could be enormous, for India and the world. We have no right to tell Indians what cars to make or drive. But we can urge them to think hard about following our model, without a real mass transit alternative in place. Cheap conventional four-wheel cars, which would encourage millions of Indians to give up their two-wheel motor scooters and three-wheel motorized rickshaws, could overwhelm India's already strained road system, increase its dependence on imported oil and gridlock the country's megacities. Yes, Indian families whose only vehicle now is a two-seat scooter often make two trips back and forth to places to get their whole family around, so a car that could pack a family of four is actually a form of mini-mass transit. And yes, Tata, by striving to make a car that could sell for $2,500, is forcing the entire Indian auto supply chain to become much more efficient and therefore competitive. But here's what's also true: Last week, I was driving through downtown Hyderabad and passed the dedication of a new overpass that had taken two years to build. A crowd was gathered around a Hindu priest in a multicolored robe, who was swinging a lantern fired by burning coconut shells and praying for safe travel on this new flyover, which would lift traffic off the streets below. The next morning I was reading The Sunday Times of India when my eye caught a color photograph of total gridlock, showing motor scooters, buses, cars and bright yellow motorized rickshaws knotted together. The caption: "Traffic ends in bottleneck on the Greenlands flyover, which was opened in Hyderabad on Saturday. On day one, the flyover was chockablock with traffic, raising questions over the efficacy of the flyover in reducing vehicular congestion." That's the strain on India's infrastructure without a $2,500 car. So what should India do? It should leapfrog us, not copy us. Just as India went from no phones to 250 million cellphones - skipping costly land lines and ending up with, in many ways, a better and cheaper phone system than we have - it should try the same with mass transit. India can't ban a $2,500 car, but it can tax it like crazy until it has a mass transit system that can give people another cheap mobility option, said Sunita Narain, the dynamo who directs New Delhi's Center for Science and Environment and got India's Supreme Court to order the New Delhi bus system to move from diesel to compressed natural gas. This greatly improved New Delhi's air and forced the Indian bus makers to innovate and create a cleaner compressed natural gas vehicle, which they now export. "I am not fighting the small car," Ms. Narain said. "I am simply asking for many more buses and bus lanes - a complete change in mobility. Because if we get the $2,500 car we will not solve our mobility problem, we will just add to our congestion and pollution problems." Charge high prices for parking, charge a proper road tax for driving, deploy free air-conditioned buses that reach every corner of the city, expand the existing beautiful Delhi subway system, "and then let the market work," she added. Why should you care what they're driving in Delhi? Here's why: The cost of your cellphone is a lot cheaper today because India took that little Western invention and innovated around it so it is now affordable to Indians who make only $2 a day. India has become a giant platform for inventing cheap scale solutions to big problems. If it applied itself to green mass transit solutions for countries with exploding middle classes, it would be a gift for itself and the world. To do that it must leapfrog. If India just innovates in cheap cars alone, its future will be gridlocked and polluted. But an India that makes itself the leader in both cheap cars and clean mass mobility is an India that will be healthier and wealthier. It will also be an India that gives us cheap answers to big problems - rather than cheap copies of our worst habits. Regards, Anupam Gupta +91 9820 49 89 81 http://www.bombayaddict.com From edelman at greenidea.eu Tue Nov 6 19:14:52 2007 From: edelman at greenidea.eu (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory) Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2007 11:14:52 +0100 Subject: [sustran] Good and Bad ideas for bike racks - Bicycle Fixation Rack Hunt Contest Message-ID: <47303E9C.6070102@greenidea.eu> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [carfree_cities] Bicycle Fixation Rack Hunt Contest--You Be the Judge! Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 19:30:59 -0800 From: Richard Risemberg Reply-To: carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com To: internet bob boblist , bicycle-fixation-announce@yahoogroups.com, carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com, newcolonist@yahoogroups.com The entry period for the Bicycle Fixation Great Bike Rack Hunt contest is closed, and we have posted the photos. We will be forwarding them to our panel of experts in a week or so, but meanwhile, our readers have the chance to judge for themselves which of the racks pictured is the best or the worst of class! The winner of the People's Choice vote will receive a pair of Hemp City Knickers for having found the bike parking rack most respected by practical cyclists. The "lantern rouge" who submitted what you decide to be the most clueless bike rack around will receive a James Black Hat. Because it's important to know what mistakes we should avoid in providing bicycle parking facilities. (The winner of the experts' judgment will receive a pair of our Classic Wool Knickers.) To vote, go to the Popular Vote page: http://bicyclefixation.com/rackhunt07popularvote.html If you didn't hear about the contest earlier, but still want to vote, please see the Contest Page so you know what we're looking for: http://bicyclefixation.com/bikerackcontest07.html And we urge everybody to view the APBP's Bicycle Parking Guidelines to help you with your judging, and to support your arguments for better bicycle parking when you speak to government officials, building managers, employers, and others to ask for bike rack installations: http://www.bicyclinginfo.org/pdf/bikepark.pdf Because you can park a lot of bikes in the space that just one car takes up. To see the products mentioned as prizes, go to: http://bicyclefixation.com/shop.html Thank you, Rick -- Richard Risemberg Bicycle Fixation http://www.bicyclefixation.com __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Members Yahoo! Groups Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity * 3 New Members Visit Your Group Ads on Yahoo! Learn more now. Reach customers searching for you. HDTV Support The official Samsung Y! Group for HDTVs and devices. Women of Curves on Yahoo! Groups see how women are changing their lives. . __,_._,___ -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic Skype: toddedelman ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 edelman@greenidea.eu http://greenideafactory.blogspot.com/ www.flickr.com/photos/edelman Green Idea Factory is a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net From eleanor.blue at gmail.com Thu Nov 8 04:31:57 2007 From: eleanor.blue at gmail.com (Eleanor Blue) Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 11:31:57 -0800 Subject: [sustran] Towards Carfree Cities VIII -- Call for Proposals Message-ID: Greetings! In June of 2008 Portland, Oregon, USA will host an international conference on the future of urban transportation and livability. The eighth annual conference of the World Carfree Network is titled "Towards Carfree Cities: Rethinking Mobility, Rediscovering Proximity". We are currently soliciting presenters from around the world on this theme and urge you and your colleagues to submit a proposal. Please see the proposal description below, or visit our website http://www.carfreeportland.org for more information and to download a PDF version of Call for Proposals. Sincerely, Elly Blue Conference Organizer portland@worldcarfree.net TOWARDS CARFREE CITIES VIII, JUNE 16-20, PORTLAND, OREGON, USA CALL FOR PROGRAM PROPOSALS The Towards Carfree Cities conference series brings together people from around the world who are promoting practical alternatives to car dependence. Professionals, activists, and community leaders alike will share how they have been building sustainable transportation systems and promoting the transformation of cities, towns and villages into human-scaled environments rich in public space and community life. As a part of the carfree movement, the conference seeks to find creative, practical solutions to the environmental, economic, community, and public health problems that arise from car-oriented urban policies, culture, and development. It looks to promote local, diverse, and sustainable neighborhoods that are accessible and pleasurable to everyone in the community. This year's conference theme is "Rethinking mobility, rediscovering proximity." The theme is intended to promote discussion of urban livability, mixed-use development, local agriculture, pedestrian safety, strong neighborhoods, accessible public space, and sustainable transportation. PROPOSALS SOLICITED World Carfree Network and Shift are now seeking program proposals on the theme of "Rethinking Mobility, Rediscovering Proximity". Proposals are requested in the following categories: * Research abstracts * Presentations of programs (eg, government, non-profit, or private sector initiatives) * Presentations of World Carfree Network members' organizational activities * Panelists on the following topics: a) alternatives to the private automobile; b) closures of parks or city streets to cars, c) carfree towns, housing developments, or shopping districts; d) experiences of carfree individuals and families, e) World Carfree Day events * Interactive workshops, activities, and tours * Films * Works of art Proposals of 1-2 pages in length, in English, shall include a title and description of the proposed activity, any equipment, time, or space requirements, relevant personal information or experience, and full contact details. Discounted entry for presenters. Send all proposals and questions to proposals@carfreeportland.org or mail to: Shift, PO Box 6662, Portland OR 97228 USA by December 15, 2007. See www.carfreeportland.org for further details about the conference. From bsriramak at yahoo.com Sat Nov 10 20:47:04 2007 From: bsriramak at yahoo.com (B Sriram) Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 03:47:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sustran] Articles on Urban Transit Message-ID: <31574.19070.qm@web34409.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Greetings ! I am a student of Urban Planning and working on public transport and its feasibility for my masters thesis. I was looking for these two articles on internet but could not find them. I would be happy if anyone could send me a copy of these articles Armstrong-Wright, A., and The World, B. (1986). Urban transit systems : guidelines for examining options, The World Bank, washington, D.C. Armstrong-Wright, A., and Thiriez, S. (1987). "Bus Services - Reducing Costs, Raising Standards; World Bank Technical Paper No. 68." The World Bank, Washington D.C. With regards Sriram __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From edelman at greenidea.eu Sun Nov 11 21:13:52 2007 From: edelman at greenidea.eu (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory) Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 13:13:52 +0100 Subject: [sustran] Amsterdam: Green wave for cyclists tested Message-ID: <4736F200.4080205@greenidea.eu> 8 November 2007 - Amsterdam has created a green wave for cyclists along the Raadhuisstraat. Cyclists riding at a speed of 15 to 18 kmph will not have to stop at red lights. Tests show that public transport benefits as well, whereas cars become slightly slower. Full story, video from similar thing in Odense.... -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic Skype: toddedelman ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 edelman@greenidea.eu http://greenideafactory.blogspot.com/ www.flickr.com/photos/edelman Green Idea Factory is a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net From bsriramak at yahoo.com Mon Nov 12 19:28:55 2007 From: bsriramak at yahoo.com (B Sriram) Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 02:28:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sustran] Re: Articles on Urban Transit Message-ID: <26057.28137.qm@web34409.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Greeting ! Found the articles with guidance from Mr. Andrew G Thank you all. Sriram __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From au.ables at gmail.com Tue Nov 13 18:33:28 2007 From: au.ables at gmail.com (Aurora Fe Ables) Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:33:28 +0800 Subject: [sustran] Sustainable Urban Mobility in Asia (SUMA) News Digest 13 November 2007 now available Message-ID: <47396f90.26f8720a.23d3.ffffc503@mx.google.com> Dear all, The latest issue of Sustainable Urban Mobility in Asia (SUMA) News Digest is now available. Visit http://groups.google.com/group/suma-news to read about news, information, and events related to sustainable urban transportation in Asia. Best regards, Au Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.12/1098 - Release Date: 10/29/2007 9:28 AM From info at autofrei-wohnen.de Thu Nov 15 02:00:22 2007 From: info at autofrei-wohnen.de (Markus Heller) Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 18:00:22 +0100 Subject: [sustran] Fw: BRT in Beijing online video Message-ID: <013001c826e2$054fcf40$0100a8c0@Markus> Hi all, I received this video, it might be of interest for you Markus http://www.autofrei-wohnen.de/homeEngl.html ----- Original Message ----- From: Luke Mines To: Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 6:01 AM Subject: BRT in Beijing online video > Hi Markus, > > I live in Beijing and do a video blog here. Our latest piece is about > transport > in Beijing and includes an extended portion about BRT in Beijing and its > spread accross China. Beijing is building one of the world's bigger > BRT networks and there are twenty cities in China with BRT in various > stages of planning and construction. > > Please check out the video on the front page of sexybeijing.tv . Also > click through to the archives to check out some episodes of our > youtube hit "Sexy Beijing", about an American girl looking for a > Chinese husband in Beijing. > > Here's the permanent link to the BRT video > http://www.sexybeijing.tv/new/video.asp?id=59 > > Here's the youtube link > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe2c4YWnyfM > > Thanks! > Luke Mines > > > -- > Producer > Goldmines Film Beijing > Tel +86 10 6415 3961 > Mob +86 1391 016 7535 > http://www.goldminesfilm.com > http://www.sexybeijing.tv From edelman at greenidea.eu Thu Nov 15 04:44:33 2007 From: edelman at greenidea.eu (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory) Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 20:44:33 +0100 Subject: [sustran] Re: Fw: BRT in Beijing online video In-Reply-To: <013001c826e2$054fcf40$0100a8c0@Markus> References: <013001c826e2$054fcf40$0100a8c0@Markus> Message-ID: <473B5021.5010609@greenidea.eu> Hmmmm.... no wheelchair access and nothing - in that video at least - about bike + PT intermodality... - T Markus Heller wrote: > Hi all, > I received this video, it might be of interest for you > > Markus > http://www.autofrei-wohnen.de/homeEngl.html > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Luke Mines > To: > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 6:01 AM > Subject: BRT in Beijing online video > > > >> Hi Markus, >> >> I live in Beijing and do a video blog here. Our latest piece is about >> transport >> in Beijing and includes an extended portion about BRT in Beijing and its >> spread accross China. Beijing is building one of the world's bigger >> BRT networks and there are twenty cities in China with BRT in various >> stages of planning and construction. >> >> Please check out the video on the front page of sexybeijing.tv . Also >> click through to the archives to check out some episodes of our >> youtube hit "Sexy Beijing", about an American girl looking for a >> Chinese husband in Beijing. >> >> Here's the permanent link to the BRT video >> http://www.sexybeijing.tv/new/video.asp?id=59 >> >> Here's the youtube link >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe2c4YWnyfM >> >> Thanks! >> Luke Mines >> >> >> -- >> Producer >> Goldmines Film Beijing >> Tel +86 10 6415 3961 >> Mob +86 1391 016 7535 >> http://www.goldminesfilm.com >> http://www.sexybeijing.tv >> > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). > > -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic Skype: toddedelman ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 edelman@greenidea.eu http://greenideafactory.blogspot.com/ www.flickr.com/photos/edelman Green Idea Factory is a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net From edelman at greenidea.eu Sat Nov 17 05:22:00 2007 From: edelman at greenidea.eu (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory) Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 21:22:00 +0100 Subject: [sustran] Cargo Bikes in East Africa Message-ID: <473DFBE8.3040708@greenidea.eu> *http://tinyurl.com/2wls42*** **A slide show with African music showing the development and use of cargo bikes in East Africa by Worldbikes. -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic Skype: toddedelman ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 edelman@greenidea.eu http://greenideafactory.blogspot.com/ www.flickr.com/photos/edelman Green Idea Factory is a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Mon Nov 19 17:42:34 2007 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric.britton) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 09:42:34 +0100 Subject: [sustran] mayor of Helsinki, Finland, wants to attract more cars to the centre Message-ID: <003401c82a88$257c4880$7074d980$@britton@ecoplan.org> From: Silfverberg Leena [mailto:leena.silfverberg@ymparisto.fi] Sent: Monday, 19 November 2007 09:10 Dear Eric, Mari and Lee, Our mayor Jussi Pajunen really has generated a lively discussion about urban mobility: Along to Helsingin Sanomat newspaper's gallup, majority (60 %) of people think that cars do not belong to the city at all, even the most conservative taxi drivers say that they want to have congestion charges to decrease the amount of cars etc. Pajunen's opinion about car drivers spending conciderable sums of money comes from the viewpoint of the city's greatest department store Stockmann. More extensive research shows, that the share of money flow is similar to the modal split: public transport passengers are the most important customers also because they visit various shops whereas car drivers only make their purchases in one store - Stockmann offers free parking for big purchases, which makes the cash receipts show cars even more significance. All in all, this is not a matter of logical reasoning but attitude. Anyway, he cannot make the decisions himself. A couple of weeks ago, a new deputy Mayor was elected for Helsinki. He is Mr. Hannu Penttil?, who now works as head of the Helsinki Metropolitan Council (responsible e.g. for public transport). I saw him in TV answering the question about his visions to improve the city: "At least I can promise, that after one year it will be much easier to ride a bike in the city centre!" I want to thank you for concerning about Helsinki - - - and once again wish the best luck for Hannu! Leena Leena Silfverberg Ministry of the Environment Finland PO Box 35, FIN-00023 Government Tel. +358 400 143 965 _____ L?hett?j?: Lee Schipper [mailto:schipper@wri.org] L?hetetty: 19. marraskuuta 2007 7:07 Vastaanottaja: NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com Kopio: Mari J?ssi; Silfverberg Leena Aihe: RE: [NewMobilityCafe] mayor of Helsinki, Finland,wants to attract more cars to the centre Strange. The Deputy Mayor was in Dalian, China, in early September at a W Economic forum event extolling his sustainable transport plans. Lee Schipper Director of Research, EMBARQ the WRI Center for Sustainable Transport www.embarq.wri.org and Visiting Scholar, Univ of Calif Transport Center Berkeley CA www.uctc.net skype: mrmeter From: NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com [mailto:NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eric.britton Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 8:11 AM To: NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com Cc: Mari J?ssi; 'Leena Silfverberg' Subject: [NewMobilityCafe] mayor of Helsinki, Finland, wants to attract more cars to the centre Thanks for the bad news Mari. I propose that we bat this around a bit here. To get it going . . . 1. Let?s assume that the mayor Pajunen is not out to gut his wonderful city?s sustainability profile, but simply standing right in front of a genuine dilemma: this being the all too well known fear of center city merchants and businesses to be driven out of business as a result of competition with all those malls, big box stores, etc. out in the low rent urban periphery. 2. We have a big advantage here, since this is a very familiar problem profile and reaction pattern. 3. We know too that the merchants fixate on the idea that their customers want to, need to be able to drive right up to their front doors, make their purchases and then lug them all in their car to wherever it is they live. 4. By the same token they are blind to the ultimate implications of car-favoritism in cities. 5. Our great advantage is that we have seen this same familiar sequence many times over and we know where it leads to. 6. We as folks who are trying to make or influence public policy have to understand these fears, and then be able to come up with not one, but an integrated package of measure that will help them with this new competitive environment. 7. It would be a huge pity if the expert and responsible citizen communities in Helsinki did pull together to work with those who are concerned about their slice of the city?s well-being and active health, to find a creative collaborative response ? instead of giving into that very very bad primal survival instinct. So what can the New Mobility Agenda, or you, do to help the mayor and the city in this case? Eric Britton On Behalf Of Mari J?ssi Sent: Friday, 16 November 2007 12:05 To: NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com Subject: [NewMobilityCafe] mayor of Helsinki, Finland, wants to attract more cars to the centre Interesting statement from a mayor of a city that has very good public transport system and cycle paths, ca 70% of commuting trips are made by public transport and the whole metropolitan region has invested a lot into smart growth type of developments along rail corridors. The mayor of Helsinki came out with this statement after he had met with a trade and industry lobby group of central Helsinki. Greetings, Mari Estonian Green Movement http://www.autovaba.ee ............................ Mayor wants more cars in central Helsinki 15.11.2007 at 18:12 Jussi Pajunen, the mayor of Helsinki, said Thursday that it was important to attract more motorists into the centre of the Finnish capital. Mr Pajunen added he feared that Helsinki was in danger of becoming a US-style satellite city whose inhabitants preferred to visit large shopping centres instead of doing their shopping in the city centre. According to Mr Pajunen, customers travelling by car must be served well because they spend considerable sums of money. /STT/ ? Copyright STT 2007 Send feedback on this item to: STT __._,_.___ From edelman at greenidea.eu Mon Nov 19 22:21:05 2007 From: edelman at greenidea.eu (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 14:21:05 +0100 Subject: [sustran] Re: [carfree_network] Re: Re: 'Amsterdam most bicycle-friendly city' In-Reply-To: <246441.36385.qm@web39509.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <246441.36385.qm@web39509.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <47418DC1.7080109@greenidea.eu> jane. wrote: > how was this list of the world's most bicycle-friendly cities when it > included only two (three? i don't have the link at the moment) > continents? certainly there are cities in asia (and other places) that > are more bike-friendly? Good question, Jane. From the original article there was a link to Virgin Vacations... So we can assume that Virgin has airplanes, spaceships , etc to these cities. It is being used to promote their products, and last time I checked there is a nothing environmentally-friendly (at least) about flying somewhere in order to ride your bike. But of course they also fly to Bogota and other cities where bicycling has recently increased in quality and quantity in a big way... The Virgin winners were based on criteria from the League of American Bicyclists Western bias? Perhaps... - T > > > */"Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory" /* wrote: > > Pascal van den Noort wrote: > > Have a look: > > http://velomondial.blogspot.com/2007_09_01_archive.html > > Will be continued. > > > > Pascal J.W. van den Noort > > Executive Director Velo Mondial > > > > > GO, Pascal! Amsterdam is also one of the few European capitals where > pet dogs go free on public transport (unless of course they take a > seat, > in which case a reduced fare must be paid....) > > "Man's Best Friend": Dog > "Man's Favourite Invention": Bicycle > > - T > > -- > -------------------------------------------- > > Todd Edelman > Director > Green Idea Factory > > Korunn? 72 > CZ-10100 Praha 10 > Czech Republic > > Skype: toddedelman > ++420 605 915 970 > ++420 222 517 832 > > edelman@greenidea.eu > http://greenideafactory.blogspot.com/ > www.flickr.com/photos/edelman > > Green Idea Factory is a member of World Carfree Network > www.worldcarfree.net > > > > [carfree_network] list guidelines and unsubscribe information are > found at http://www.worldcarfree.net/listservs/. Send messages for > the entire list to carfree_network@lists.riseup.net. Send replies > to individuals off-list. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. > Try it now. > -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic Skype: toddedelman ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 edelman@greenidea.eu http://greenideafactory.blogspot.com/ www.flickr.com/photos/edelman Green Idea Factory is a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net From operations at velomondial.net Tue Nov 20 01:37:33 2007 From: operations at velomondial.net (Pascal van den Noort) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:37:33 +0100 Subject: [sustran] New York lagging behind In-Reply-To: <47418DC1.7080109@greenidea.eu> References: <246441.36385.qm@web39509.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <47418DC1.7080109@greenidea.eu> Message-ID: <007001c82aca$8be59b20$9a00000a@MPBV> But is New York seriously lagging behind European cities? See: http://velomondial.blogspot.com/2007/10/new-york-and-league-of-american.html Pascal J.W. van den Noort Executive Director Velo Mondial Velo Mondial's Blog www.velomondial.net www.velo.info http://spicycles.velo.info operations@velomondial.net +31206270675 landline +31627055688 mobile phone _____ Van: Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory [mailto:edelman@greenidea.eu] Verzonden: maandag 19 november 2007 14:21 Aan: WCN list; SFBIKE List List; communication@bikeleague.org; bill@bikeleague.org; Elizabeth Falvy; Sustran Resource Centre Onderwerp: [carfree_network] Re: Re: Re: 'Amsterdam most bicycle-friendly city' jane. wrote: how was this list of the world's most bicycle-friendly cities when it included only two (three? i don't have the link at the moment) continents? certainly there are cities in asia (and other places) that are more bike-friendly? Good question, Jane. >From the original article there was a link to Virgin Vacations... So we can assume that Virgin has airplanes, spaceships , etc to these cities. It is being used to promote their products, and last time I checked there is a nothing environmentally-friendly (at least) about flying somewhere in order to ride your bike. But of course they also fly to Bogota and other cities where bicycling has recently increased in quality and quantity in a big way... The Virgin winners were based on criteria from the League of American Bicyclists Western bias? Perhaps... - T "Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory" wrote: Pascal van den Noort wrote: > Have a look: > http://velomondial.blogspot.com/2007_09_01_archive.html > Will be continued. > > Pascal J.W. van den Noort > Executive Director Velo Mondial > > GO, Pascal! Amsterdam is also one of the few European capitals where pet dogs go free on public transport (unless of course they take a seat, in which case a reduced fare must be paid....) "Man's Best Friend": Dog "Man's Favourite Invention": Bicycle - T -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic Skype: toddedelman ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 edelman@greenidea.eu http://greenideafactory.blogspot.com/ www.flickr.com/photos/edelman Green Idea Factory is a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net [carfree_network] list guidelines and unsubscribe information are found at http://www.worldcarfree.net/listservs/. Send messages for the entire list to carfree_network@lists.riseup.net. Send replies to individuals off-list. _____ Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now. -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic Skype: toddedelman ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 edelman@greenidea.eu http://greenideafactory.blogspot.com/ www.flickr.com/photos/edelman Green Idea Factory is a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net From peebeebarter at gmail.com Tue Nov 20 12:02:24 2007 From: peebeebarter at gmail.com (Paul Barter) Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 11:02:24 +0800 Subject: [sustran] Fwd: BRT in Beijing online video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe2c4YWnyfM In-Reply-To: <-3441958289351816688@unknownmsgid> References: <-3441958289351816688@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <6fc1c1110711191902k7f6949admea6dba97eadcd4d0@mail.gmail.com> This may be of interest to sustran-discussers. Paul ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: MarkusHeller Date: 16 Nov 2007 15:50 Subject: [NewMobilityCafe] BRT in Beijing online video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe2c4YWnyfM To: NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com Cc: info@autofrei-wohnen.de, info@goldminesfilm.com, Peter Ekenger < peter.ekenger@telia.com> [Thanks to Markus Heller and several others for passing this on. Very nice touch. Let me say this: it's real food for thought. Bon app?tit. Eric Britton] >> Hi Markus, >> >> I live in Beijing and do a video blog here. Our latest piece is about >> transport in Beijing and includes an extended portion about BRT in Beijing and its >> spread accross China. Beijing is building one of the world's bigger >> BRT networks and there are twenty cities in China with BRT in various >> stages of planning and construction. >> >> Here's the permanent link to the BRT video >> http://www.sexybeijing.tv/new/video.asp?id=59 >> >> Here's the youtube link >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe2c4YWnyfM >> >> Thanks! >> Luke Mines >> >> >> -- >> Producer >> Goldmines Film Beijing >> Tel +86 10 6415 3961 >> Mob +86 1391 016 7535 >> http://www.goldminesfilm.com >> http://www.sexybeijing.tv From peebeebarter at gmail.com Tue Nov 20 12:05:45 2007 From: peebeebarter at gmail.com (Paul Barter) Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 11:05:45 +0800 Subject: [sustran] Oops Message-ID: <6fc1c1110711191905i61fbb5cdrcfb431a2bad8a65d@mail.gmail.com> Apologies for resending the Beijing BRT item just now. I am behind in dealing with email and hadn't noticed that it had already appeared here in sustran-discuss. Sorry to clog your inboxes further. Paul From schipper at wri.org Tue Nov 20 12:45:23 2007 From: schipper at wri.org (Lee Schipper) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 22:45:23 -0500 Subject: [sustran] Re: Fwd: BRT in Beijing online video -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe2c4YWnyfM References: <-3441958289351816688@unknownmsgid> <6fc1c1110711191902k7f6949admea6dba97eadcd4d0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46E2E1971BCEC1459149FBB1A4B4342CD18074@wricsex029330.WRI.CRM.Local> I just came back from Shanghai. They are not building a BRT network. They have 5 (soon 6) Metro lines. Traffic is awful... There seems no sentiment to do anything to slow cars down, to enforce speeding laws, to apply congestion pricing. Sure there is an increasing supply of public transit, but it is not taking modal share from cars apparently, rather from bikes and walkers. And the E-bikes are everywhere. So where do we go from here, or rather, where does China go from here? Will the Beijing Olympics or Shanghai Expo 2010 be socked in by bad traffic and foul air? Lee -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of Paul Barter Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 7:02 PM To: sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org Subject: [sustran] Fwd: BRT in Beijing online video -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe2c4YWnyfM This may be of interest to sustran-discussers. Paul ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: MarkusHeller Date: 16 Nov 2007 15:50 Subject: [NewMobilityCafe] BRT in Beijing online video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe2c4YWnyfM To: NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com Cc: info@autofrei-wohnen.de, info@goldminesfilm.com, Peter Ekenger < peter.ekenger@telia.com> [Thanks to Markus Heller and several others for passing this on. Very nice touch. Let me say this: it's real food for thought. Bon app?tit. Eric Britton] >> Hi Markus, >> >> I live in Beijing and do a video blog here. Our latest piece is about >> transport in Beijing and includes an extended portion about BRT in Beijing and its >> spread accross China. Beijing is building one of the world's bigger >> BRT networks and there are twenty cities in China with BRT in various >> stages of planning and construction. >> >> Here's the permanent link to the BRT video >> http://www.sexybeijing.tv/new/video.asp?id=59 >> >> Here's the youtube link >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe2c4YWnyfM >> >> Thanks! >> Luke Mines >> >> >> -- >> Producer >> Goldmines Film Beijing >> Tel +86 10 6415 3961 >> Mob +86 1391 016 7535 >> http://www.goldminesfilm.com >> http://www.sexybeijing.tv -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From richmond at alum.mit.edu Tue Nov 20 16:47:08 2007 From: richmond at alum.mit.edu (Jonathan E. D. Richmond) Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 11:47:08 +0400 (Caucasus Standard Time) Subject: [sustran] Open Versus Closed Busways Message-ID: We are in the process of writing Terms of Reference for study and implementation of a new Busway/BRT system in Mauritius to serve the dense and highly congested suburban corridor stretching from the capital city, Port Louis, to the town of Curepipe to the south. We have a disused rail right of way which we will be using. Last year, we held consensus forums with twenty major stakeholders, which resulted in a recommendation to proceed with an open busway -- this means that existing operators who meet strict service standards we propose to fix will be allowed to operate routes starting or finishing off the busway, while using the busway for express operations. I would very much welcome information and advice from anyone on issues connected with open busway operation. I am concerned to hear that a number of BRT systems have been started on an "open" concept, but not been successful -- information on reasons for success or failure would be very useful. There are reasons to go for an "open" approach beyond the clear political rationale that this will promise future participation for existing bus operators and their labor. Many residential areas lie beyond the immediate reach of the busway, while direct service -- without the need for connections at busway stations -- is likely to be most attractive to those currently driving to work. Direct services would also cut down for the need for complex interchange facilities and parking at the busway stations themselves -- and this may be important as there is limited space available at a numnber of the locations. We are concerned about how we might run the facility to permit the maximum efficient throughput of buses while avoiding congestion. Would a signal system run by a central control centre be one appropriate approach? Has anyone tried this? One option would be to provide passing lanes at all stations so that buses coming from beyond the busway could operate express to Port Louis while avoiding causing congestion at stations. We might even be able to combine "closed" and "open" concepts, with an "all-stations" service operated by one operator or consortium, while other operators use the facility as an expressway but do not serve intermediate stations. Any informal ideas would be much appreciated. If you are not already on our informal mailing list and might potentially be interested in offering consulting services, please also feel free to ask to be added to the list, although you should note that we are planning extensive international advertising of the project according to formal procurement rules. Many thanks, --Jonathan ----- Jonathan Richmond Transport Adviser to the Government of Mauritius Ministry of Public Infrastructure, Land Transport and Shipping Level 4 New Government Centre Port Louis Mauritius +230 707-1134 (Mauritius mobile) +230 288-2942 (Mauritius home) +1 (617) 395-4360 (US phone number) e-mail: richmond@alum.mit.edu http://the-tech.mit.edu/~richmond/ From edelman at greenidea.eu Tue Nov 20 18:20:19 2007 From: edelman at greenidea.eu (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory) Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 10:20:19 +0100 Subject: [sustran] [Fwd: [carfree_network] Re: Sao Paulo bans outdoor advertising] Message-ID: <4742A6D3.10301@greenidea.eu> /JCDecaux/ and Clear Channel in Sao Paulo... ... kinda reminds me of how tyre and bus companies did their part in destroying tram system in Los Angeles.... - T -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [carfree_network] Re: Sao Paulo bans outdoor advertising Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 01:53:08 -0200 From: Thiago Benicchio CC: 'WCN list' References: <000401c80c3b$60bc5c20$6500a8c0@Nikita> Dear friends, It's been a while since this messa circulated, but I just can answer now. Sao Paulo as an ad-free city is a lie. I mean, not exactly a lie, but only part of the true. It's true that our mayor banned ads since the begining of 2007. But, ironicaly, it's just marketing mixed with the intention to benefit exactly the same JC Decaux and Clear Channel that now make this theater complaining about the "Clean City" law. Political propaganda mixed with privatisation of urban landscape to huge propaganda corporations. I explain: the "Clean City" consists in two stages. The first one is in curse now: removing all ads from the city and limiting the size of comercial buildings signs. Who lost? Small (and not so small) propaganda companies that, for sure, polluted the city for years. But they were "just making bussiness", I mean, they were not breaking any law. Along with this regular companies, there were a lot of irregular ads in Sao Paulo. The second stage consists in privitising urban furniture (as trash cans and bus stops), giving the concessionaires the right to explore ads on those places. The privatization of urban space will divide the city in 3 or 4 areas and the private companies will be responsible for installing and mantaining bus stops, trash cans and benches... It's good to remember that Sao Paulo is the hugest South America city, so the companies who intend to explore this areas must be the big ones (as Clear Channel or JC). And that's the main issue that local ad companies are complaining: they will have no chance to beat the ad-giants. Sumarizing the two stages: 1) first: eliminate ads and local ad companies by making public space ads ilegal 2) sell (or rent) public space to huge ad companies 3) allow ads again on specific places That's not conspiracy stuff, it's an open plan and a political decision. It's being openly publicized, including major newspapers (as the one I took the article attached. Sorry, only in portuguese, but maybe some babelfish translation can make some work). Brazil (and a huge part of the global south) has experienced a huge privatisation era on the 90s and the results are far from good. That's why it's hard to belive that Clear Channel will install and mantain bus stops in the suburbs of Sao Paulo. These companies are only for the money and have different behaviors on different parts of the world: where there's an minimally organized civil society (as in Europe), they make things without pushing it too hard. Where there were no civil society and the political scenario looks like Feudalism, they just want to make fast money. That's why I don't think the discussion about acting against JC Decaux in Paris was naif, as discussed before. Not every pro-bike action is a pro-Humanity action. Bikes are not gods, and cars are not devils. BTW: november 23, Buy Nothing Day (http://adbusters.org/metas/eco/bnd/) peace, -- Thiago Benicchio http://apocalipsemotorizado.net Lloyd Wright wrote: > Given the recent exchange regarding Paris Velib's proliferation of > outdoor advertising, I thought the following article might be of interest. > > http://www.economist.com/business/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9963268 > > Outdoor advertising > > > Visual pollution > > Oct 11th 2007 > >From /The Economist/ print edition > > > Advertising firms fret over billboard bans > > ?THE ban on outdoor advertising in S?o Paulo is illegal and we will > prove this,? says Paul Meyer, chief operating officer of America's > Clear Channel Outdoor, the world's biggest outdoor-advertising > company. The councillors of Brazil's biggest city passed an ordinance > banning billboards last September, and Clear Channel is suing to have > it overturned. Mr Meyer says his firm's lawyers are confident that it > will be declared unconstitutional. ?The destruction of a business > would certainly be against the law in America,? he adds. > > Yet bans on billboards exist in other parts of the world?even America. > Vermont, Maine, Hawaii and Alaska all prohibit them, as do some 1,500 > towns. In Europe, the Norwegian city of Bergen does the same and many > others are imposing severe restrictions on billboards: the mayor of > Moscow, for example, is about to introduce regulation to reduce their > number and size. > > Even so, no big city had ever imposed a complete ban on billboards > before S?o Paulo. The ?Clean City? law also bans ads on taxis and > buses and imposes strict limits on shopfront signs. Previously, most > of S?o Paulo's billboards had been erected without permission, > although Clear Channel had spent some $2m to comply with pre-ban rules > on outdoor ads. > > S?o Paulo is now ad-free. Many inhabitants of the metropolis of 11m > think their city is prettier as a result. Inspired by its success, Rio > de Janeiro, Bras?lia and Porto Alegre and even Buenos Aires, capital > of Brazil's neighbour Argentina, are discussing measures to reduce or > ban outdoor ads. > > ?This might only be the beginning,? warns Jean-Fran?ois Decaux, > chairman of JCDecaux, the second-biggest outdoor advertising company. > In his view local companies must work together to pull down illegal > billboards. Otherwise many other cities, especially in emerging > economies, will be tempted to follow the Brazilian example. > > For Robert Weissman of Commercial Alert, a lobby group, S?o Paulo's > move is excellent news. Public space must not be abused for private > commercial purposes, he says. Yet Mr Decaux argues that outdoor > advertisers pay municipal authorities good money for the use of public > space. They sometimes also provide cities with bus shelters, public > loos and so forth in exchange for the right to place advertisements on > them. > > This trade gives outdoor advertisers and local authorities a strong > incentive to work with one another. Messrs Decaux and Meyer say they > are in favour of good regulation and strong enforcement. They point > out that the proliferation of illegal billboards is bad for business > because it distracts attention from legal ones. And the more legal > advertising there is, the more reluctant city governments will be to > part with the revenue and services it brings. > > Regardless of the outcome of Clear Channel's lawsuit, S?o Paulo may > well reintroduce advertising one day, for just those sorts of reasons. > City governments, after all, are almost always short of cash?and it is > no exception. > > *Lloyd Wright* > *Executive Director* > *Viva* > *Robles 653 y Av. Amazonas* > *Oficinas 601-602-603* > *Quito* > *Ecuador* > *Tel. +593 2 255 1492* > *Mobile +593 9 577 6500* > *Fax +1 877 350 0910* > *Email **lwright@vivacities.org* > *Web **www.vivacities.org* > "Viva...changing the world one street at a time." -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic Skype: toddedelman ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 edelman@greenidea.eu http://greenideafactory.blogspot.com/ www.flickr.com/photos/edelman Green Idea Factory is a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: propaganda_vai_voltar-Estado_07-09.txt Type: text/plain Size: 4571 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20071120/2fae2c60/propaganda_vai_voltar-Estado_07-09.txt From et3 at et3.com Wed Nov 21 04:12:59 2007 From: et3 at et3.com (Daryl Oster) Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 14:12:59 -0500 Subject: [sustran] Re: [carfree_network] Re: Re: 'Amsterdam mostbicycle-friendly city' In-Reply-To: <47418DC1.7080109@greenidea.eu> References: <246441.36385.qm@web39509.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <47418DC1.7080109@greenidea.eu> Message-ID: <031901c82ba9$8dffad30$5700ca4b@P90CAD> > -----Original Message----- > From: Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 8:21 AM > To: WCN list; SFBIKE List List; communication@bikeleague.org; > bill@bikeleague.org; Elizabeth Falvy; Sustran Resource Centre > Subject: [sustran] Re: [carfree_network] Re: Re: 'Amsterdam mostbicycle- > friendly city' ... > So we can assume that Virgin has airplanes, spaceships > , etc to these cities. It is > being used to promote their products, and last time I checked there is a > nothing environmentally-friendly (at least) about flying somewhere in > order to ride your bike. But of course they also fly to Bogota and other > cities where bicycling has recently increased in quality and quantity in > a big way... > > The Virgin winners were based on criteria from the League of American > Bicyclists > > Western bias? Perhaps... > Todd, Owning and using a couple of them my self, I have nothing against bikes. The truth is that they make a much bigger footprint per mile than today's much more efficient modes. And it is true that while trains improved on muscle powered transport efficiency, and cars and aircraft improved on trains, so will new modes greatly improve on autos and airplanes (for instance our patented Evacuated Tube Transport (ETT) technology). In addition to owning bikes, I own a car and a motorcycle, and I used to own an airplane. My airplane (a home built KR2) was probably the greenest vehicle I have ever owned. Hauling two people, it would achieve 35mpg efficiency at 140mph. Since drag is proportional to velocity differential squared; the KR2 was 4 times the efficiency of my Toyota Corolla that gets 35mpg hauling the same two people at 70mph. The airplane (built mostly of wood) took an eighth the energy and materials to build as the car did. It used a recycled automobile engine (VW). The KR2 required no roads -- only a GREEN grass airstrip. Also the KR2 could fly straight over mountains or lakes to a destination usually requiring fewer miles for the same trip by car -- in short, a very low environmental foot print. Basic per kilometer impact comparisons (that I have presented to [sustran] in the past) show that a trip by bike to a distant location impacts the environment much more than an air flight, train ride, or car trip carrying the occupant and bike the same distance would. Walking is even worse impact than riding a bike, and riding a horse much worse than that. In days when muscle powered transport was the only option, marching armies would strip the land of anything green with a wide decimated swath marking their path-- now far bigger armies travel greater distances via train, truck, bus, or aircraft with far less of a footprint. Of greater concern than the size of the footprint, is the reason for the footprint of any given mode. For instance, if a mode with a large footprint (like walking) were used productively to mitigate many smaller foot prints left by cars and aircraft (for instance by planting trees, installing erosion control, etc). Carbon, and global warming (GW), often supposed to be human caused, is of little concern compared to much more immediate and clearly proven transportation concerns like: gross air, ground, and water pollution; and running out of resources. IMO, global warming offers more likely benefits than harm for humans. I submit as proof the general knowledge of geologist and climatologists that show that since the depth of the last major ice age 35,000 years ago, the sea level has risen about 200m. It is strange that people are so concerned about the predicted increase of 0.2m to 0.6m sea level in the next 100 years, since this is just the average linear range of change over the last 8k years (plotted across the high points or the low points). About 80% of the increase in sea level since the ice age occurred from 25k years ago to about 8k years ago. The periods of the fastest global warming (15k years ago) correlate with the rise of civilization so there is good evidence that GW has more benefits to humans than harm. 15k years ago, there was a thousand year long period where the sea level increased about 40m -- 7-15 times greater than the present rate. Legends of that ancient global flooding persist in most cultures -- and it is interesting that some humans of the time blamed human iniquity for being the root of the cause -- angering God who flooded the earth to cleanse the sins. Perhaps it is true, and perhaps also true that the present age will end in fire; this thought has some basis in science, as climatologists who focus their studies on long term changes generally agree that most long term major shifts in earth climate is primarily caused by friction forces of plate tectonics (ample references can be supplied upon request). I think we can all agree that the footprints of trains, automobiles and aircraft are causing harmful impact, and that drastic changes are needed to protect the environment. I hope we can also agree than returning to old ways of less efficient transportation is not likely to help. Many bike advocates also advocate trains; they should take the trouble to confirm that Sir Richard Branson's Virgin, in addition to improving air travel efficiency, has made colossal financial commitments to improving train travel in England. Daryl Oster (c) 2007 all rights reserved. ETT, et3, MoPod, "space travel on earth" e-tube, e-tubes, and the logos thereof are trademarks and or service marks of et3.com Inc. For licensing information contact: POB 1423, Crystal River FL 34423-1423 (352)257-1310, et3@et3.com , www.et3.com From paulbarter at nus.edu.sg Wed Nov 21 15:49:06 2007 From: paulbarter at nus.edu.sg (Paul Barter) Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 14:49:06 +0800 Subject: [sustran] Jakarta busway twists and turns? Message-ID: The Jakarta busways appear to be facing some curious decisions according to this Jakarta Post article below. See near the end where it says: "On Nov. 5 the administration announced motorists would be permitted to use certain sections of other busway corridors in the city for a month. The decision was made to ease traffic congestion caused by the ongoing construction of the three new corridors." This means mixed traffic is being allowed into operational busways? Can anyone fill in the background on what is going on in Jakarta? Should we be worried about the future of BRT there or is this a minor hiccup? Paul ------------------------------------------------------- Jakarta Post November 21, 2007 More busway delays predicted City News - Wednesday, November 21, 2007 Mustaqim Adamrah, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta The city administration may delay the launch of services on three busway corridors currently being constructed until March. It was first predicted the corridors would be fully operational by the end of the year. City secretary Ritola Tasmaya said the delay was caused by several problems, including delays in the procurement of ticketing machines and buses. "These delays were partly caused by the delayed disbursement of the city budget, meaning we had to readjust the procurement schedule," he said. However, the head of the Jakarta Transportation Agency, Nurachman, said Tuesday the project was still on track and would be completed by its scheduled finish date. "Dec. 15 was nominated as the deadline for these corridors to be finished by, not the day when busway services on these corridors would commence," he said. Nurachman said it was likely busway services would commence on the three corridors by May. He said delays may be encountered in the construction of the remaining four busway corridors, which were initially expected to be built next year. The corridors currently under construction are corridor VIII, which will link Lebak Bulus in South Jakarta to Harmoni in Central Jakarta (19.6 kilometers), corridor IX linking Pinang Ranti in East Jakarta to Pluit in North Jakarta (45.6 km) and corridor X linking Cililitan in East Jakarta to Tanjung Priok in North Jakarta (37.8 km). Jakarta Public Works Agency head Wisnu Subagya Yusuf said the three corridors were approximately 80 percent compete as of Nov. 16. Nurachman said motorists would be permitted to use the three busway corridors until services were introduced. "It is better to partly overcome traffic congestion by allowing people to use these lanes rather than leaving them empty," he said. On Nov. 5 the administration announced motorists would be permitted to use certain sections of other busway corridors in the city for a month. The decision was made to ease traffic congestion caused by the ongoing construction of the three new corridors. The administration and Jakarta Police have deployed 5,000 personnel to implement the policy, known as the Jala Jaya traffic operation. Police have so far fined 114 drivers for parking or stopping illegally during the operation. Nine vehicles were seized and are currently being held at the police vehicle document center in Daan Mogot, West Jakarta. The city police's head of traffic accidents, Adj. Comr. Irvan Prawira, said drivers of public busses who parked illegally on Jl. Letjen Suprapto in Central Jakarta made up the majority of people fined. Police have also been deployed to the Jl. Sabang, Cideng, Pasar Baru and Sarinah areas in Central Jakarta, Jl. RE Martadinata and Jl. Yos Sudarso in North Jakarta, Jl. Otista Raya in East Jakarta and Jl. Melawai in South Jakarta as part of the operation. (adt) From whook at itdp.org Wed Nov 21 22:43:28 2007 From: whook at itdp.org (Walter Hook) Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 08:43:28 -0500 Subject: [sustran] Re: Jakarta busway twists and turns? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000901c82c44$806a2f60$6b01a8c0@Walter> John ernst tells me that several of the corridors have been open for some time now during the construction, but that it is temporary. w -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of Paul Barter Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 1:49 AM To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Subject: [sustran] Jakarta busway twists and turns? The Jakarta busways appear to be facing some curious decisions according to this Jakarta Post article below. See near the end where it says: "On Nov. 5 the administration announced motorists would be permitted to use certain sections of other busway corridors in the city for a month. The decision was made to ease traffic congestion caused by the ongoing construction of the three new corridors." This means mixed traffic is being allowed into operational busways? Can anyone fill in the background on what is going on in Jakarta? Should we be worried about the future of BRT there or is this a minor hiccup? Paul ------------------------------------------------------- Jakarta Post November 21, 2007 More busway delays predicted City News - Wednesday, November 21, 2007 Mustaqim Adamrah, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta The city administration may delay the launch of services on three busway corridors currently being constructed until March. It was first predicted the corridors would be fully operational by the end of the year. City secretary Ritola Tasmaya said the delay was caused by several problems, including delays in the procurement of ticketing machines and buses. "These delays were partly caused by the delayed disbursement of the city budget, meaning we had to readjust the procurement schedule," he said. However, the head of the Jakarta Transportation Agency, Nurachman, said Tuesday the project was still on track and would be completed by its scheduled finish date. "Dec. 15 was nominated as the deadline for these corridors to be finished by, not the day when busway services on these corridors would commence," he said. Nurachman said it was likely busway services would commence on the three corridors by May. He said delays may be encountered in the construction of the remaining four busway corridors, which were initially expected to be built next year. The corridors currently under construction are corridor VIII, which will link Lebak Bulus in South Jakarta to Harmoni in Central Jakarta (19.6 kilometers), corridor IX linking Pinang Ranti in East Jakarta to Pluit in North Jakarta (45.6 km) and corridor X linking Cililitan in East Jakarta to Tanjung Priok in North Jakarta (37.8 km). Jakarta Public Works Agency head Wisnu Subagya Yusuf said the three corridors were approximately 80 percent compete as of Nov. 16. Nurachman said motorists would be permitted to use the three busway corridors until services were introduced. "It is better to partly overcome traffic congestion by allowing people to use these lanes rather than leaving them empty," he said. On Nov. 5 the administration announced motorists would be permitted to use certain sections of other busway corridors in the city for a month. The decision was made to ease traffic congestion caused by the ongoing construction of the three new corridors. The administration and Jakarta Police have deployed 5,000 personnel to implement the policy, known as the Jala Jaya traffic operation. Police have so far fined 114 drivers for parking or stopping illegally during the operation. Nine vehicles were seized and are currently being held at the police vehicle document center in Daan Mogot, West Jakarta. The city police's head of traffic accidents, Adj. Comr. Irvan Prawira, said drivers of public busses who parked illegally on Jl. Letjen Suprapto in Central Jakarta made up the majority of people fined. Police have also been deployed to the Jl. Sabang, Cideng, Pasar Baru and Sarinah areas in Central Jakarta, Jl. RE Martadinata and Jl. Yos Sudarso in North Jakarta, Jl. Otista Raya in East Jakarta and Jl. Melawai in South Jakarta as part of the operation. (adt) -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From cowherdr at wit.edu Wed Nov 21 23:09:00 2007 From: cowherdr at wit.edu (Robert Cowherd) Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 09:09:00 -0500 Subject: [sustran] Re: Jakarta busway twists and turns? In-Reply-To: <000901c82c44$806a2f60$6b01a8c0@Walter> Message-ID: Evidence on the ground in Jakarta suggest that there is indeed cause for serious concern over the continued viability of Bus Rapid Transit in Jakarta. The history of excellent measures being scrapped due to problems of implementation is crowded enough to give one pause. The whole endeavor was basically forced through on the force of personality by Governor Sutiyoso loosely based on Transmilenio, Bogota. His gamble seemed a good one at the time: We can endure the hardship of construction and the initial decrease in the flow of traffic confident that in the medium-term, more people will take to the buses, even those with cars, and overall mobility as quantified and perceived will increase. The problem is that even Jakartans that one would expect to support the busway are now incensed at the dramatically worsening of conditions. They eagerly await what they perceive as the all but inevitable rolling back of the program and a return to the ever expanding asphalt approach to mobility. I am not aware of serious endeavors towards course correction but I will inquire a bit. Robert Cowherd, PhD, Associate Professor of Architecture Wentworth Institute of Technology 550 Huntington Ave. Boston, MA 02115 USA cowherdr@wit.edu; +1 617 989-4453 On 11/21/07 8:43 AM, "Walter Hook" wrote: > John ernst tells me that several of the corridors have been open for some > time now during the construction, but that it is temporary. > > w > > -----Original Message----- > From: sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf > Of Paul Barter > Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 1:49 AM > To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport > Subject: [sustran] Jakarta busway twists and turns? > > The Jakarta busways appear to be facing some curious decisions according > to this Jakarta Post article below. > > See near the end where it says: > "On Nov. 5 the administration announced motorists would be permitted to > use certain sections of other busway corridors in the city for a month. > The decision was made to ease traffic congestion caused by the ongoing > construction of the three new corridors." > > This means mixed traffic is being allowed into operational busways? > Can anyone fill in the background on what is going on in Jakarta? Should > we be worried about the future of BRT there or is this a minor hiccup? > > Paul > ------------------------------------------------------- > > Jakarta Post November 21, 2007 > > > More busway delays predicted > > City News - Wednesday, November 21, 2007 > > Mustaqim Adamrah, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta > > The city administration may delay the launch of services on three busway > corridors currently being constructed until March. > > It was first predicted the corridors would be fully operational by the > end of the year. > > City secretary Ritola Tasmaya said the delay was caused by several > problems, including delays in the procurement of ticketing machines and > buses. > > "These delays were partly caused by the delayed disbursement of the city > budget, meaning we had to readjust the procurement schedule," he said. > > However, the head of the Jakarta Transportation Agency, Nurachman, said > Tuesday the project was still on track and would be completed by its > scheduled finish date. > > "Dec. 15 was nominated as the deadline for these corridors to be > finished by, not the day when busway services on these corridors would > commence," he said. > > Nurachman said it was likely busway services would commence on the three > corridors by May. > > He said delays may be encountered in the construction of the remaining > four busway corridors, which were initially expected to be built next > year. > > The corridors currently under construction are corridor VIII, which will > link Lebak Bulus in South Jakarta to Harmoni in Central Jakarta (19.6 > kilometers), corridor IX linking Pinang Ranti in East Jakarta to Pluit > in North Jakarta (45.6 km) and corridor X linking Cililitan in East > Jakarta to Tanjung Priok in North Jakarta (37.8 km). > > Jakarta Public Works Agency head Wisnu Subagya Yusuf said the three > corridors were approximately 80 percent compete as of Nov. 16. > > Nurachman said motorists would be permitted to use the three busway > corridors until services were introduced. > > "It is better to partly overcome traffic congestion by allowing people > to use these lanes rather than leaving them empty," he said. > > On Nov. 5 the administration announced motorists would be permitted to > use certain sections of other busway corridors in the city for a month. > > The decision was made to ease traffic congestion caused by the ongoing > construction of the three new corridors. > > The administration and Jakarta Police have deployed 5,000 personnel to > implement the policy, known as the Jala Jaya traffic operation. > > Police have so far fined 114 drivers for parking or stopping illegally > during the operation. > > Nine vehicles were seized and are currently being held at the police > vehicle document center in Daan Mogot, West Jakarta. > > The city police's head of traffic accidents, Adj. Comr. Irvan Prawira, > said drivers of public busses who parked illegally on Jl. Letjen > Suprapto in Central Jakarta made up the majority of people fined. > > Police have also been deployed to the Jl. Sabang, Cideng, Pasar Baru and > Sarinah areas in Central Jakarta, Jl. RE Martadinata and Jl. Yos Sudarso > in North Jakarta, Jl. Otista Raya in East Jakarta and Jl. Melawai in > South Jakarta as part of the operation. (adt) > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join > the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups > version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real > sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). > Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join > the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups > version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real > sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). > Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable > and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global > South'). From laura.lauramachado at gmail.com Thu Nov 22 00:35:43 2007 From: laura.lauramachado at gmail.com (Laura) Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 13:35:43 -0200 Subject: [sustran] Re: [Fwd: [carfree_network] Re: Sao Paulo bans outdoor advertising] In-Reply-To: <4742A6D3.10301@greenidea.eu> References: <4742A6D3.10301@greenidea.eu> Message-ID: <47b030540711210735raa0f8bay66b71f4870668ee8@mail.gmail.com> 'I'm agree completly Look to real face of S?o Paulo wathcing the video : "automobile society" in: http://paginas.terra.com.br/arte/sociedadedoautomovel/down.html abs Laura 2007/11/20, Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory : > > /JCDecaux/ and Clear Channel in Sao Paulo... > > ... kinda reminds me of how tyre and bus companies did their part in > destroying tram system in Los Angeles.... > > - T > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: [carfree_network] Re: Sao Paulo bans outdoor advertising > Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 01:53:08 -0200 > From: Thiago Benicchio > CC: 'WCN list' > References: <000401c80c3b$60bc5c20$6500a8c0@Nikita> > > > > Dear friends, > It's been a while since this messa circulated, but I just can answer now. > > Sao Paulo as an ad-free city is a lie. I mean, not exactly a lie, but > only part of the true. > > It's true that our mayor banned ads since the begining of 2007. But, > ironicaly, it's just marketing mixed with the intention to benefit > exactly the same JC Decaux and Clear Channel that now make this theater > complaining about the "Clean City" law. Political propaganda mixed with > privatisation of urban landscape to huge propaganda corporations. > > I explain: the "Clean City" consists in two stages. The first one is in > curse now: removing all ads from the city and limiting the size of > comercial buildings signs. Who lost? Small (and not so small) propaganda > companies that, for sure, polluted the city for years. But they were > "just making bussiness", I mean, they were not breaking any law. Along > with this regular companies, there were a lot of irregular ads in Sao > Paulo. > > The second stage consists in privitising urban furniture (as trash cans > and bus stops), giving the concessionaires the right to explore ads on > those places. The privatization of urban space will divide the city in 3 > or 4 areas and the private companies will be responsible for installing > and mantaining bus stops, trash cans and benches... It's good to > remember that Sao Paulo is the hugest South America city, so the > companies who intend to explore this areas must be the big ones (as > Clear Channel or JC). And that's the main issue that local ad companies > are complaining: they will have no chance to beat the ad-giants. > > Sumarizing the two stages: > 1) first: eliminate ads and local ad companies by making public space > ads ilegal > 2) sell (or rent) public space to huge ad companies > 3) allow ads again on specific places > > That's not conspiracy stuff, it's an open plan and a political decision. > It's being openly publicized, including major newspapers (as the one I > took the article attached. Sorry, only in portuguese, but maybe some > babelfish translation can make some work). > > Brazil (and a huge part of the global south) has experienced a huge > privatisation era on the 90s and the results are far from good. That's > why it's hard to belive that Clear Channel will install and mantain bus > stops in the suburbs of Sao Paulo. These companies are only for the > money and have different behaviors on different parts of the world: > where there's an minimally organized civil society (as in Europe), they > make things without pushing it too hard. Where there were no civil > society and the political scenario looks like Feudalism, they just want > to make fast money. > > That's why I don't think the discussion about acting against JC Decaux > in Paris was naif, as discussed before. Not every pro-bike action is a > pro-Humanity action. Bikes are not gods, and cars are not devils. > > BTW: november 23, Buy Nothing Day (http://adbusters.org/metas/eco/bnd/) > > peace, > > -- > Thiago Benicchio > http://apocalipsemotorizado.net > > > Lloyd Wright wrote: > > Given the recent exchange regarding Paris Velib's proliferation of > > outdoor advertising, I thought the following article might be of > interest. > > > > http://www.economist.com/business/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9963268 > > > > Outdoor advertising > > > > > > Visual pollution > > > > Oct 11th 2007 > > >From /The Economist/ print edition > > > > > > Advertising firms fret over billboard bans > > > > "THE ban on outdoor advertising in S?o Paulo is illegal and we will > > prove this," says Paul Meyer, chief operating officer of America's > > Clear Channel Outdoor, the world's biggest outdoor-advertising > > company. The councillors of Brazil's biggest city passed an ordinance > > banning billboards last September, and Clear Channel is suing to have > > it overturned. Mr Meyer says his firm's lawyers are confident that it > > will be declared unconstitutional. "The destruction of a business > > would certainly be against the law in America," he adds. > > > > Yet bans on billboards exist in other parts of the world?even America. > > Vermont, Maine, Hawaii and Alaska all prohibit them, as do some 1,500 > > towns. In Europe, the Norwegian city of Bergen does the same and many > > others are imposing severe restrictions on billboards: the mayor of > > Moscow, for example, is about to introduce regulation to reduce their > > number and size. > > > > Even so, no big city had ever imposed a complete ban on billboards > > before S?o Paulo. The "Clean City" law also bans ads on taxis and > > buses and imposes strict limits on shopfront signs. Previously, most > > of S?o Paulo's billboards had been erected without permission, > > although Clear Channel had spent some $2m to comply with pre-ban rules > > on outdoor ads. > > > > S?o Paulo is now ad-free. Many inhabitants of the metropolis of 11m > > think their city is prettier as a result. Inspired by its success, Rio > > de Janeiro, Bras?lia and Porto Alegre and even Buenos Aires, capital > > of Brazil's neighbour Argentina, are discussing measures to reduce or > > ban outdoor ads. > > > > "This might only be the beginning," warns Jean-Fran?ois Decaux, > > chairman of JCDecaux, the second-biggest outdoor advertising company. > > In his view local companies must work together to pull down illegal > > billboards. Otherwise many other cities, especially in emerging > > economies, will be tempted to follow the Brazilian example. > > > > For Robert Weissman of Commercial Alert, a lobby group, S?o Paulo's > > move is excellent news. Public space must not be abused for private > > commercial purposes, he says. Yet Mr Decaux argues that outdoor > > advertisers pay municipal authorities good money for the use of public > > space. They sometimes also provide cities with bus shelters, public > > loos and so forth in exchange for the right to place advertisements on > > them. > > > > This trade gives outdoor advertisers and local authorities a strong > > incentive to work with one another. Messrs Decaux and Meyer say they > > are in favour of good regulation and strong enforcement. They point > > out that the proliferation of illegal billboards is bad for business > > because it distracts attention from legal ones. And the more legal > > advertising there is, the more reluctant city governments will be to > > part with the revenue and services it brings. > > > > Regardless of the outcome of Clear Channel's lawsuit, S?o Paulo may > > well reintroduce advertising one day, for just those sorts of reasons. > > City governments, after all, are almost always short of cash?and it is > > no exception. > > > > *Lloyd Wright* > > *Executive Director* > > *Viva* > > *Robles 653 y Av. Amazonas* > > *Oficinas 601-602-603* > > *Quito* > > *Ecuador* > > *Tel. +593 2 255 1492* > > *Mobile +593 9 577 6500* > > *Fax +1 877 350 0910* > > *Email **lwright@vivacities.org* > > *Web **www.vivacities.org* > > "Viva...changing the world one street at a time." > > -- > -------------------------------------------- > > Todd Edelman > Director > Green Idea Factory > > Korunn? 72 > CZ-10100 Praha 10 > Czech Republic > > Skype: toddedelman > ++420 605 915 970 > ++420 222 517 832 > > edelman@greenidea.eu > http://greenideafactory.blogspot.com/ > www.flickr.com/photos/edelman > > Green Idea Factory is a member of World Carfree Network > www.worldcarfree.net > > > http://www.estado.com.br/editorias/2007/09/15/cid-1.93.3.20070915.46.1.xml > ? > > Cidade Limpa faz 1 ano e Kassab fala em volta de publicidade > > Prefeito mandar? ? C?mara projeto que permite p?r an?ncios em novos > abrigos de ?nibus e rel?gios de rua > > Humberto Maia Junior > > No dia em que a Lei Cidade Limpa, que proibiu a publicidade em S?o Paulo, > completou um ano, o prefeito Gilberto Kassab (DEM) anunciou a volta da > propaganda. Ele disse ontem que vai enviar nos pr?ximos dias ? C?mara > projeto de lei que d? permiss?o ? Prefeitura de ceder a empresas privadas o > direito de explora??o publicit?ria de mobili?rios urbanos como lixeiras, > abrigos de ?nibus e rel?gios. O prefeito sempre negou que iria esperar a > Cidade Limpa estar conclu?da para lan?ar a licita??o do mobili?rio urbano. > > Kassab, por?m, n?o fixou um prazo. "Pode sair nos pr?ximos dias. A cidade > est? preparada e (a cess?o do direito de explora??o) pode gerar uma receita > importante para S?o Paulo", disse, sem citar valores. > > Mas, para Regina Monteiro, diretora da Empresa Municipal de Urbaniza??o > (Emurb) e presidente da Comiss?o de Prote??o da Paisagem Urbana (CPPU) - que > analisa a aplica??o da lei -, a cidade pode n?o estar pronta para esse > passo. Segundo Regina, h? muitos interesses em jogo e "muita gente ferida". > Para ela, isso poderia inviabilizar o processo. "N?o acho que o momento > pol?tico seja adequado. Ainda ? muito prematuro, falta muita coisa e podemos > perder a chance de fazer o processo de forma bem feita." > > Com "gente ferida" a diretora da Emurb refere-se aos empres?rios que, > segundo ela, ainda est?o ressentidos com as mudan?as provocadas pela lei e > iriam tentar inviabilizar o processo licitat?rio. "S?o pessoas que n?o > entenderam o esp?rito, acham que a Prefeitura teve m?s inten??es com a lei", > explicou. "Quando montarmos a licita??o, v?o questionar tudo, interpretar de > forma errada, como se quis?ssemos beneficiar um determinado grupo. Enfim, > v?o tentar achar p?lo em ovo." > > A diretora da Emurb disse que est?o conclu?dos os estudos sobre a > explora??o da publicidade. Quem vai decidir ? o prefeito. "O estudo abrangeu > v?rias op??es que ser?o apresentadas ao Executivo." O que ? certo, segundo > Regina, ? que as licita??es para a explora??o de cada mobili?rio urbano > ser?o separadas. "N?o vamos fazer um pacot?o, envolvendo rel?gios e > mobili?rios urbanos, por exemplo." > > O objetivo de n?o dividir a cidade em lotes ? evitar que uma ?rea seja bem > atendida por uma empresa, e outra, n?o. "E se um lote vinga e os outros n?o? > Se n?o vingar nenhum, a Prefeitura pode assumir o servi?o." Regina informou > que os contratos dever?o ser de curta dura??o. "N?o acho que seria bom um > contrato de 20 anos. Defendo cinco anos de vig?ncia." > > Atualmente, existem em S?o Paulo 350 rel?gios e 1.250 abrigos de ?nibus. O > primeiro n?mero ? suficiente e n?o deve aumentar, disse a diretora da Emurb. > A quantidade de abrigos, por?m, ? insuficiente. Os que existem est?o > concentrados na regi?o do centro expandido, exclu?da a ?rea da Subprefeitura > da Lapa, na zona oeste. > > A explora??o de outros mobili?rios, como lixeiras, bancos de pra?as, > suportes de ?rvores ou banheiros ser? analisada numa segunda etapa. "Vamos > come?ar com os rel?gios e os abrigos, que s?o modelos conhecidos e que > provaram sua efic?cia.Os outros dependem de an?lise." > > REF?M > > Para o vice-presidente do Instituto de Arquitetos do Brasil (IAB-SP), > arquiteto L?cio Gomes Machado, a proposta de centralizar a explora??o da > publicidade de cada mobili?rio por uma ?nica empresa ? um erro. O correto, > segundo ele, seria dividir S?o Paulo em v?rias zonas e dar cada uma delas a > uma empresa diferente. "A cidade n?o pode ficar ref?m." > > Machado, que ? professor da Faculdade de Arquitetura e Urbanismo da USP, > tamb?m prop?e que a Prefeitura realize um concurso p?blico antes da > licita??o para escolher o melhor projeto de constru??o do mobili?rio urbano. > As patentes dos projetos iriam para o poder p?blico. A empresa que vencesse > a licita??o para a explora??o da publicidade nesses locais seria obrigada a > cumprir o projeto. > > Para o arquiteto, deixar o projeto por conta da empresa dificultaria a > troca por outra empresa. "No caso de mudan?as, n?o poderia tirar (o > mobili?rio) porque a patente seria dela (empresa). Da maneira como propomos, > a Prefeitura teria maior controle do processo." Segundo ele, o modelo de > terceirizar a publicidade nos mobili?rios funciona e n?o resulta na volta da > polui??o visual. "Paris s? tem publicidade nos pontos de ?nibus, lixeiras, > banheiros p?blicos e n?o h? polui??o visual." > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to > join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The > yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the > real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you > can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > From edelman at greenidea.eu Thu Nov 22 02:41:23 2007 From: edelman at greenidea.eu (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory) Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 18:41:23 +0100 Subject: [sustran] Re: Fwd: BRT in Beijing online video -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe2c4YWnyfM In-Reply-To: <46E2E1971BCEC1459149FBB1A4B4342CD18074@wricsex029330.WRI.CRM.Local> References: <-3441958289351816688@unknownmsgid> <6fc1c1110711191902k7f6949admea6dba97eadcd4d0@mail.gmail.com> <46E2E1971BCEC1459149FBB1A4B4342CD18074@wricsex029330.WRI.CRM.Local> Message-ID: <47446DC3.6090506@greenidea.eu> Lee, In my view you have no place asking a question like this since Shell - one of the main benefactors of EMBARQ - LOVES it - if semi-secretly - that automobilisation is on the increase in China. I am not trying to do make a personal attack... but please, let's be real. All of this should not be balanced against the other activities of the company nor their competition. It is totally insignificant. I could make suggestions... e.g. Shell would be okay if on a worldwide basis they only sold energy to public transport and carshare, etc. but then of course I would be called naive because the competition would take advantage and so on. As I tried to say here Shell simply does not care about sustainability in its full form. And EMBARQ is a greenwashing exercise. If I am kicked off the list for this comment, it is worth it. I don't enjoy writing a letter like this. But I enjoy even less being polite and thus silent. - T Lee Schipper wrote: > I just came back from Shanghai. They are not building a BRT network. They have 5 (soon 6) Metro lines. > Traffic is awful... > > There seems no sentiment to do anything to slow cars down, to enforce speeding laws, to apply congestion pricing. Sure there is an increasing supply of public transit, but it is not taking modal share from cars apparently, rather from bikes and walkers. And the E-bikes are everywhere. > > So where do we go from here, or rather, where does China go from here? Will the Beijing Olympics or Shanghai Expo 2010 be socked in by bad traffic and foul air? > > Lee > > -----Original Message----- > From: sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of Paul Barter > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 7:02 PM > To: sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org > Subject: [sustran] Fwd: BRT in Beijing online video -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe2c4YWnyfM > > This may be of interest to sustran-discussers. > Paul > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: MarkusHeller > Date: 16 Nov 2007 15:50 > Subject: [NewMobilityCafe] BRT in Beijing online video - > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe2c4YWnyfM > To: NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com > Cc: info@autofrei-wohnen.de, info@goldminesfilm.com, Peter Ekenger < > peter.ekenger@telia.com> > > [Thanks to Markus Heller and several others for passing this on. Very > nice touch. Let me say this: it's real food for thought. Bon app?tit. Eric > Britton] > > > >>> Hi Markus, >>> > > > > >>> I live in Beijing and do a video blog here. Our latest piece is about >>> > > >>> transport in Beijing and includes an extended portion about BRT in >>> > Beijing and its > > >>> spread accross China. Beijing is building one of the world's bigger >>> > > >>> BRT networks and there are twenty cities in China with BRT in various >>> > > >>> stages of planning and construction. >>> > > > > >>> Here's the permanent link to the BRT video >>> > > >>> http://www.sexybeijing.tv/new/video.asp?id=59 >>> > > > > >>> Here's the youtube link >>> > > >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe2c4YWnyfM >>> > > > > >>> Thanks! >>> > > >>> Luke Mines >>> > > > > > > >>> -- >>> > > >>> Producer >>> > > >>> Goldmines Film Beijing >>> > > >>> Tel +86 10 6415 3961 >>> > > >>> Mob +86 1391 016 7535 >>> > > >>> http://www.goldminesfilm.com >>> > > >>> http://www.sexybeijing.tv >>> > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). > > -- -------------------------------------------- Todd Edelman Director Green Idea Factory Korunn? 72 CZ-10100 Praha 10 Czech Republic Skype: toddedelman ++420 605 915 970 ++420 222 517 832 edelman@greenidea.eu http://greenideafactory.blogspot.com/ www.flickr.com/photos/edelman Green Idea Factory is a member of World Carfree Network www.worldcarfree.net From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Thu Nov 22 07:24:44 2007 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (eric.britton) Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 23:24:44 +0100 Subject: [sustran] "In my view you have no place asking a question like this since Shell " In-Reply-To: <47446DC3.6090506@greenidea.eu> References: <-3441958289351816688@unknownmsgid> <6fc1c1110711191902k7f6949admea6dba97eadcd4d0@mail.gmail.com> <46E2E1971BCEC1459149FBB1A4B4342CD18074@wricsex029330.WRI.CRM.Local> <47446DC3.6090506@greenidea.eu> Message-ID: <00ed01c82c8d$55c1bc30$01453490$@britton@ecoplan.org> Oops Todd. Okay, I have to wade in here. Up until now I have handled this in private with Todd, but since all this is now out in the open, off we go. Look Todd, you have wandered with your righteous insistence on this and a few other like matters from the professorial, knowledgeable and useful to the personal, doctrinaire, and - I chose my word -- paranoid. This is not, let me say, an Adbusters of CarBuster forum: it is, may I quote from our charter, Sustran: The Sustainable Transport Action Network for Asia & the Pacific -- an email discussion list devoted to people-centered, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). Sustran: a major discussion forum on urban transport in developing countries." Discussions are well focused, expert-based and of very high quality. We have been doing this I would say rather successfully since 1999, and while there have been a few glitches - one or two concerning you in fact - on the whole this has been a creative and for many of us who are deeply involved in these real world, often burning issues a useful exercise. Now Todd, you are a fine man and your heart is definitely in the right place. Your actual knowledge of both the politics and practice of transport and its associated sectors (environment, finance, social justice, land use, etc.) has shown itself to be more than a little uneven on more than one occasion (one example among many: 11 Oct. "I AM sorry, what's ICE?"), but your enthusiasm and occasional useful heads-ups has made up for these shortcomings of which we all are quite aware. But now you are, as far as I am concerned, stepping over the line. Not in terms of what you chose to say - that's your business - but what you chose to say here. This is not a place for the Lone Ranger and the One Pure Truth Seeker. You have no monopoly on knowledge, long term commitment or ability. Far from it. I would say that your technical competence in our field and your ability to make a difference is no more than a couple of small notches compared with the contributions and commitment of Lee (with whom I have long reserved the right to differ, but not to instruct). Let's take a few steps back on this for a bit of perceptive. 1. Is the Shell Oil company, all the other fossil fuels guys, the world automotive players, the road and bridge builders of the world, and all those nicely dressed financial guys, lobbyists and round-heeled politicians and suited international schmendricks and non-boat rockers on the first line of guilt as far as the rapid decline of our planet is concerned? Yes. No doubt. 2. Are you the only one in the world who recognizes that? Give me a break. 3. But are the Shell Foundation, the Ford Foundation and take your choice for the others without value or validity in our struggle to free ourselves of these historic, inertial and financial bonds? Of that I am less sure. 4. The Shell Foundation folks, just to take that once example, have never given our program a nickel, but they have on two occasions and on very short notice stepped forward and helped out with most useful last minute support at a time of need for the Stockholm Partnerships for Sustainable Cities and later to support the World Technology Environmental Award (that went to voracious car-lovers Hands Monderman and Jan Gehl). 5. Are they perfect? I would tend to doubt it? Is the group that is trying to do something with the limited dollars that the Shell oil company have given them a bunch of kneejerk louts - as you more than imply with your greenwashing charges? Let me say, not quite. To conclude - and to leave myself wide open to discussion and qualification from any of you (but not for now Todd, who has already had more than his say) - those of us who care about the bottom line, sustainable development and social justice, and doing something about it rather than having tantrums in public, are working hard and doing our best. People like the Shell Foundation crew are surely not perfect but when they get behind the EMBARQ program and guys like Lee Schipper and his hard working - and knowledgeable - colleagues, I am not sure that your level of discourse represents an advance for the sustainability agenda. It may make you feel better, it may make you feel righteous, but believe me that is now what all of this is about. So here is what I propose, subject to the approval of my other senior colleagues here. You will be asked not to post to this forum for the rest of this year, but I hope that you will read and profit from our communications. Think of this as a short sabbatical giving you time to catch up on a few important things that you will be able to make good use of in the future. We want your energy and enthusiasm, and would just like to temper it with a bit more knowledge about how this most imperfect world works. And the maturity which hopefully goes with it. Kind regards to all, and the discussions are, if necessary, now open (to all but Todd, I would say again), Eric Britton ---- Lee, In my view you have no place asking a question like this since Shell - one of the main benefactors of EMBARQ - LOVES it - if semi-secretly - that automobilisation is on the increase in China. I am not trying to do make a personal attack... but please, let's be real. All of this should not be balanced against the other activities of the company nor their competition. It is totally insignificant. I could make suggestions... e.g. Shell would be okay if on a worldwide basis they only sold energy to public transport and carshare, etc. but then of course I would be called naive because the competition would take advantage and so on. As I tried to say here Shell simply does not care about sustainability in its full form. And EMBARQ is a greenwashing exercise. If I am kicked off the list for this comment, it is worth it. I don't enjoy writing a letter like this. But I enjoy even less being polite and thus silent. - T Lee Schipper wrote: > I just came back from Shanghai. They are not building a BRT network. They have 5 (soon 6) Metro lines. > Traffic is awful... > > There seems no sentiment to do anything to slow cars down, to enforce speeding laws, to apply congestion pricing. Sure there is an increasing supply of public transit, but it is not taking modal share from cars apparently, rather from bikes and walkers. And the E-bikes are everywhere. > > So where do we go from here, or rather, where does China go from here? Will the Beijing Olympics or Shanghai Expo 2010 be socked in by bad traffic and foul air? > > Lee From schipper at wri.org Thu Nov 22 07:32:38 2007 From: schipper at wri.org (Lee Schipper) Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 17:32:38 -0500 Subject: [sustran] Re: "In my view you have no place asking a question like this since Shell " References: <-3441958289351816688@unknownmsgid> <6fc1c1110711191902k7f6949admea6dba97eadcd4d0@mail.gmail.com> <46E2E1971BCEC1459149FBB1A4B4342CD18074@wricsex029330.WRI.CRM.Local> <47446DC3.6090506@greenidea.eu> <00ed01c82c8d$55c1bc30$01453490$@britton@ecoplan.org> Message-ID: <46E2E1971BCEC1459149FBB1A4B4342CD4D968@wricsex029330.WRI.CRM.Local> I was in Shanghai for Challenge Bibendum, Michelin's almost annual event testing low emission cars and this time two wheelers running on fuel and on electricity as well. A number of buses were also displayed. Shell has been testing buses in Shanghai running on gas-to-liquids diesel. They also have a healthy natural gas business, some of which finds its way into buses around the world. At the main event, Niel Golightly, VP of Shell for Sustainability, stood up before the group, and said "buy less of our product". Lee Schipper Director of Research, EMBARQ the WRI Center for Sustainable Transport www.embarq.wri.org and Visiting Scholar, Univ of Calif Transport Center Berkeley CA www.uctc.net skype: mrmeter 510 642 6889 202 262 7476 From: eric.britton [mailto:eric.britton@ecoplan.org] Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 2:25 PM To: edelman@greenidea.eu; Lee Schipper Cc: sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org; paulbarter@nus.edu.sg Subject: "In my view you have no place asking a question like this since Shell " Oops Todd. Okay, I have to wade in here. Up until now I have handled this in private with Todd, but since all this is now out in the open, off we go. Look Todd, you have wandered with your righteous insistence on this and a few other like matters from the professorial, knowledgeable and useful to the personal, doctrinaire, and - I chose my word -- paranoid. This is not, let me say, an Adbusters of CarBuster forum: it is, may I quote from our charter, Sustran: The Sustainable Transport Action Network for Asia & the Pacific -- an email discussion list devoted to people-centered, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). Sustran: a major discussion forum on urban transport in developing countries." Discussions are well focused, expert-based and of very high quality. We have been doing this I would say rather successfully since 1999, and while there have been a few glitches - one or two concerning you in fact - on the whole this has been a creative and for many of us who are deeply involved in these real world, often burning issues a useful exercise. Now Todd, you are a fine man and your heart is definitely in the right place. Your actual knowledge of both the politics and practice of transport and its associated sectors (environment, finance, social justice, land use, etc.) has shown itself to be more than a little uneven on more than one occasion (one example among many: 11 Oct. "I AM sorry, what's ICE?"), but your enthusiasm and occasional useful heads-ups has made up for these shortcomings of which we all are quite aware. But now you are, as far as I am concerned, stepping over the line. Not in terms of what you chose to say - that's your business - but what you chose to say here. This is not a place for the Lone Ranger and the One Pure Truth Seeker. You have no monopoly on knowledge, long term commitment or ability. Far from it. I would say that your technical competence in our field and your ability to make a difference is no more than a couple of small notches compared with the contributions and commitment of Lee (with whom I have long reserved the right to differ, but not to instruct). Let's take a few steps back on this for a bit of perceptive. 1. Is the Shell Oil company, all the other fossil fuels guys, the world automotive players, the road and bridge builders of the world, and all those nicely dressed financial guys, lobbyists and round-heeled politicians and suited international schmendricks and non-boat rockers on the first line of guilt as far as the rapid decline of our planet is concerned? Yes. No doubt. 2. Are you the only one in the world who recognizes that? Give me a break. 3. But are the Shell Foundation, the Ford Foundation and take your choice for the others without value or validity in our struggle to free ourselves of these historic, inertial and financial bonds? Of that I am less sure. 4. The Shell Foundation folks, just to take that once example, have never given our program a nickel, but they have on two occasions and on very short notice stepped forward and helped out with most useful last minute support at a time of need for the Stockholm Partnerships for Sustainable Cities and later to support the World Technology Environmental Award (that went to voracious car-lovers Hands Monderman and Jan Gehl). 5. Are they perfect? I would tend to doubt it? Is the group that is trying to do something with the limited dollars that the Shell oil company have given them a bunch of kneejerk louts - as you more than imply with your greenwashing charges? Let me say, not quite. To conclude - and to leave myself wide open to discussion and qualification from any of you (but not for now Todd, who has already had more than his say) - those of us who care about the bottom line, sustainable development and social justice, and doing something about it rather than having tantrums in public, are working hard and doing our best. People like the Shell Foundation crew are surely not perfect but when they get behind the EMBARQ program and guys like Lee Schipper and his hard working - and knowledgeable - colleagues, I am not sure that your level of discourse represents an advance for the sustainability agenda. It may make you feel better, it may make you feel righteous, but believe me that is now what all of this is about. So here is what I propose, subject to the approval of my other senior colleagues here. You will be asked not to post to this forum for the rest of this year, but I hope that you will read and profit from our communications. Think of this as a short sabbatical giving you time to catch up on a few important things that you will be able to make good use of in the future. We want your energy and enthusiasm, and would just like to temper it with a bit more knowledge about how this most imperfect world works. And the maturity which hopefully goes with it. Kind regards to all, and the discussions are, if necessary, now open (to all but Todd, I would say again), Eric Britton ---- Lee, In my view you have no place asking a question like this since Shell - one of the main benefactors of EMBARQ - LOVES it - if semi-secretly - that automobilisation is on the increase in China. I am not trying to do make a personal attack... but please, let's be real. All of this should not be balanced against the other activities of the company nor their competition. It is totally insignificant. I could make suggestions... e.g. Shell would be okay if on a worldwide basis they only sold energy to public transport and carshare, etc. but then of course I would be called naive because the competition would take advantage and so on. As I tried to say here Shell simply does not care about sustainability in its full form. And EMBARQ is a greenwashing exercise. If I am kicked off the list for this comment, it is worth it. I don't enjoy writing a letter like this. But I enjoy even less being polite and thus silent. - T Lee Schipper wrote: > I just came back from Shanghai. They are not building a BRT network. They have 5 (soon 6) Metro lines. > Traffic is awful... > > There seems no sentiment to do anything to slow cars down, to enforce speeding laws, to apply congestion pricing. Sure there is an increasing supply of public transit, but it is not taking modal share from cars apparently, rather from bikes and walkers. And the E-bikes are everywhere. > > So where do we go from here, or rather, where does China go from here? Will the Beijing Olympics or Shanghai Expo 2010 be socked in by bad traffic and foul air? > > Lee From zvi at inro.ca Thu Nov 22 08:27:23 2007 From: zvi at inro.ca (Zvi Leve) Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 18:27:23 -0500 Subject: [sustran] Re: "In my view you have no place asking a question like this since Shell " In-Reply-To: <46E2E1971BCEC1459149FBB1A4B4342CD4D968@wricsex029330.WRI.CRM.Local> References: <-3441958289351816688@unknownmsgid> <6fc1c1110711191902k7f6949admea6dba97eadcd4d0@mail.gmail.com> <46E2E1971BCEC1459149FBB1A4B4342CD18074@wricsex029330.WRI.CRM.Local> <47446DC3.6090506@greenidea.eu> <00ed01c82c8d$55c1bc30$01453490$@britton@ecoplan.org> <46E2E1971BCEC1459149FBB1A4B4342CD4D968@wricsex029330.WRI.CRM.Local> Message-ID: <4744BEDB.5080002@inro.ca> Lee, you are an economist, correct? Perhaps you can "enlighten" me a bit on the economics of non-renewable resources. Why should we be falling all over ourselves to "exploit these resources" as quickly as possible? I would think that leaving them in the ground and thereby letting the value increase as it becomes more and more scarce could also be a 'profitable' business alternative. Am I missing something? One of my friends often reminds me that oil is a crucial input to almost everything in modern society. Burning it to propel our vehicles is a rather wasteful use of such an important resource! Zvi Lee Schipper wrote: > At the main event, Niel Golightly, VP of Shell for Sustainability, stood > up before the group, and said "buy less of our product". > > From schipper at wri.org Thu Nov 22 08:29:00 2007 From: schipper at wri.org (Lee Schipper) Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 18:29:00 -0500 Subject: [sustran] Re: "In my view you have no place asking a question like this since Shell " References: <-3441958289351816688@unknownmsgid> <6fc1c1110711191902k7f6949admea6dba97eadcd4d0@mail.gmail.com> <46E2E1971BCEC1459149FBB1A4B4342CD18074@wricsex029330.WRI.CRM.Local> <47446DC3.6090506@greenidea.eu> <00ed01c82c8d$55c1bc30$01453490$@britton@ecoplan.org> <46E2E1971BCEC1459149FBB1A4B4342CD4D968@wricsex029330.WRI.CRM.Local> <4744BEDB.5080002@inro.ca> Message-ID: <46E2E1971BCEC1459149FBB1A4B4342CD4D984@wricsex029330.WRI.CRM.Local> My Ph D is in astrophysics, my BA in Music my work in energy and transport economics. So would you believe me? Lee Schipper Director of Research, EMBARQ the WRI Center for Sustainable Transport www.embarq.wri.org and Visiting Scholar, Univ of Calif Transport Center Berkeley CA www.uctc.net skype: mrmeter 510 642 6889 202 262 7476 -----Original Message----- From: Zvi Leve [mailto:zvi@inro.ca] Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 3:27 PM To: Lee Schipper Cc: sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org Subject: Re: [sustran] Re: "In my view you have no place asking a question like this since Shell " Lee, you are an economist, correct? Perhaps you can "enlighten" me a bit on the economics of non-renewable resources. Why should we be falling all over ourselves to "exploit these resources" as quickly as possible? I would think that leaving them in the ground and thereby letting the value increase as it becomes more and more scarce could also be a 'profitable' business alternative. Am I missing something? One of my friends often reminds me that oil is a crucial input to almost everything in modern society. Burning it to propel our vehicles is a rather wasteful use of such an important resource! Zvi Lee Schipper wrote: > At the main event, Niel Golightly, VP of Shell for Sustainability, stood > up before the group, and said "buy less of our product". > > From schipper at wri.org Thu Nov 22 08:42:44 2007 From: schipper at wri.org (Lee Schipper) Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 18:42:44 -0500 Subject: [sustran] "exhaustible resources or exhausted economists?" References: <-3441958289351816688@unknownmsgid> <6fc1c1110711191902k7f6949admea6dba97eadcd4d0@mail.gmail.com> <46E2E1971BCEC1459149FBB1A4B4342CD18074@wricsex029330.WRI.CRM.Local> <47446DC3.6090506@greenidea.eu> <00ed01c82c8d$55c1bc30$01453490$@britton@ecoplan.org><46E2E1971BCEC1459149FBB1A4B4342CD4D968@wricsex029330.WRI.CRM.Local><4744BEDB.5080002@inro.ca> <46E2E1971BCEC1459149FBB1A4B4342CD4D984@wricsex029330.WRI.CRM.Local> Message-ID: <46E2E1971BCEC1459149FBB1A4B4342CD4D986@wricsex029330.WRI.CRM.Local> At $100/bbl we're beginning to fall away from using oil ..natural gas is next. With the chances Of real action on carbon looming big, we may see a serious (i.e., $100/ton carbon) tax on carbon. But the world's economy keeps growing, putting more cars on the road and connecting more people to modern electricity, gas, and/or LPG supplies. I think the growth from this expansion can be cut drastically. What is happening now is in part letting it stay in the ground, in part demand not growing as it would have, in part some caution on the part of multinational fuel suppliers who realize we do live in a (hydro)-carbon constrained world. Today's generation of mostly carbon intensive "bio" fuels doesn't make it, and many are worried that fuel-scale exploitation of biomass in Asia and Africa will simply ruin those places. Is oil supply, i.e, the RATE of exploitation, peaking. I don't know and it doesn't really matter. CO2 is a good enough reason to slow the rise and begin the fall in use of hydrocarbons, period. My own view is that there are trillions of barrels of oil left, but now rather than the overall marginal cost of getting that oil falling (as in OPEC countries), it is rising, albeit with some of that rising cost coming from a very low base (the OPEC countries) and some from very high cost countries like the US. But while oil is an input to things, so is natural gas or (ugh) coal. More important, so is labor, capital, water, knowledge. What is vital is not oil per se but high-grade stored energy (or more correctly exergy). I suspect That air travel and chemicals are some of the most important uses of the resources of exergy. While chemicals can be made from natural gas, air travel has not yet found anything like jet kerosene for a combination of high energy./weight, relative safety of handling, and relative abundance. Not surprisingly defense interest are searching for bio fuels alternatives. And we can argue whether some of the things (polyster knits instead of wool, etc) represents the use of fossil fuels we want to save oil for.... The only way out is to reduce the need for using these fuels, i.e., cut the whole problem down to size. I think that can be done, although admittedly the US is leading the charge to the rear in its present policies. Particularly dangerous is subsidizing alternatives like farmer corn-based ethanol rather than letting fossil fuel prices rise even more to reflect the alleged "need" for these alternatives, to reflect carbon dangers, etc. when you subsidize fuels you get more fuel and more car use and more waste in general. I don't know how much more I can say. Lee Schipper Director of Research, EMBARQ the WRI Center for Sustainable Transport www.embarq.wri.org and Visiting Scholar, Univ of Calif Transport Center Berkeley CA www.uctc.net skype: mrmeter 510 642 6889 202 262 7476 -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of Lee Schipper Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 3:29 PM To: Zvi Leve Cc: sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org Subject: [sustran] Re: "In my view you have no place asking a questionlike this since Shell " My Ph D is in astrophysics, my BA in Music my work in energy and transport economics. So would you believe me? Lee Schipper Director of Research, EMBARQ the WRI Center for Sustainable Transport www.embarq.wri.org and Visiting Scholar, Univ of Calif Transport Center Berkeley CA www.uctc.net skype: mrmeter 510 642 6889 202 262 7476 -----Original Message----- From: Zvi Leve [mailto:zvi@inro.ca] Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 3:27 PM To: Lee Schipper Cc: sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org Subject: Re: [sustran] Re: "In my view you have no place asking a question like this since Shell " Lee, you are an economist, correct? Perhaps you can "enlighten" me a bit on the economics of non-renewable resources. Why should we be falling all over ourselves to "exploit these resources" as quickly as possible? I would think that leaving them in the ground and thereby letting the value increase as it becomes more and more scarce could also be a 'profitable' business alternative. Am I missing something? One of my friends often reminds me that oil is a crucial input to almost everything in modern society. Burning it to propel our vehicles is a rather wasteful use of such an important resource! Zvi Lee Schipper wrote: > At the main event, Niel Golightly, VP of Shell for Sustainability, stood > up before the group, and said "buy less of our product". > > -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From zvi at inro.ca Thu Nov 22 09:13:18 2007 From: zvi at inro.ca (Zvi Leve) Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 19:13:18 -0500 Subject: [sustran] Re: "exhaustible resources or exhausted economists?" In-Reply-To: <46E2E1971BCEC1459149FBB1A4B4342CD4D986@wricsex029330.WRI.CRM.Local> References: <-3441958289351816688@unknownmsgid> <6fc1c1110711191902k7f6949admea6dba97eadcd4d0@mail.gmail.com> <46E2E1971BCEC1459149FBB1A4B4342CD18074@wricsex029330.WRI.CRM.Local> <47446DC3.6090506@greenidea.eu> <00ed01c82c8d$55c1bc30$01453490$@britton@ecoplan.org><46E2E1971BCEC1459149FBB1A4B4342CD4D968@wricsex029330.WRI.CRM.Local><4744BEDB.5080002@inro.ca> <46E2E1971BCEC1459149FBB1A4B4342CD4D984@wricsex029330.WRI.CRM.Local> <46E2E1971BCEC1459149FBB1A4B4342CD4D986@wricsex029330.WRI.CRM.Local> Message-ID: <4744C99E.4040403@inro.ca> Thanks Lee - that covers oil as an energy input. I was thinking more about oil as an input to plastics and packaging as opposed to polyester knits. As far as I know, there is not an obvious replacement for these uses and presumably the end product will have some use far longer than it took to burn the oil as an energy source. And what about energy consumption for air conditioning? Surely this is sky-rocketing in the developing asian countries! How does the growth in home-energy consumption compare with that of the transport sector? Cheers, Zvi Lee Schipper wrote: > At $100/bbl we're beginning to fall away from using oil ..natural gas is > next. With the chances > Of real action on carbon looming big, we may see a serious (i.e., > $100/ton carbon) tax on carbon. But the world's economy keeps growing, > putting more cars on the road and connecting more people to modern > electricity, gas, and/or LPG supplies. I think the growth from this > expansion can be cut drastically. > > What is happening now is in part letting it stay in the ground, in part > demand not growing as it would have, in part some caution on the part of > multinational fuel suppliers who realize we do live in a (hydro)-carbon > constrained world. Today's generation of mostly carbon intensive "bio" > fuels doesn't make it, and many are worried that fuel-scale exploitation > of biomass in Asia and Africa will simply ruin those places. > > Is oil supply, i.e, the RATE of exploitation, peaking. I don't know and > it doesn't really matter. CO2 is a good enough reason to slow the rise > and begin the fall in use of hydrocarbons, period. My own view is that > there are trillions of barrels of oil left, but now rather than the > overall marginal cost of getting that oil falling (as in OPEC > countries), it is rising, albeit with some of that rising cost coming > from a very low base (the OPEC countries) and some from very high cost > countries like the US. > > But while oil is an input to things, so is natural gas or (ugh) coal. > More important, so is labor, capital, water, knowledge. What is vital > is not oil per se but high-grade stored energy (or more correctly > exergy). I suspect > That air travel and chemicals are some of the most important uses of the > resources of exergy. While chemicals can be made from natural gas, air > travel has not yet found anything like jet kerosene for a combination of > high energy./weight, relative safety of handling, and relative > abundance. Not surprisingly defense interest are searching for bio fuels > alternatives. > > And we can argue whether some of the things (polyster knits instead of > wool, etc) represents the use of fossil fuels we want to save oil > for.... > > The only way out is to reduce the need for using these fuels, i.e., cut > the whole problem down to size. I think that can be done, although > admittedly the US is leading the charge to the rear in its present > policies. Particularly dangerous is subsidizing alternatives like > farmer corn-based ethanol rather than letting fossil fuel prices rise > even more to reflect the alleged "need" for these alternatives, to > reflect carbon dangers, etc. when you subsidize fuels you get more fuel > and more car use and more waste in general. > > I don't know how much more I can say. > > Lee Schipper > Director of Research, > EMBARQ the WRI Center for Sustainable Transport > www.embarq.wri.org > and > Visiting Scholar, > Univ of Calif Transport Center > Berkeley CA > www.uctc.net > skype: mrmeter > 510 642 6889 > 202 262 7476 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org@list.jca.apc.org > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+schipper=wri.org@list.jca.apc.org] On > Behalf Of Lee Schipper > Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 3:29 PM > To: Zvi Leve > Cc: sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org > Subject: [sustran] Re: "In my view you have no place asking a > questionlike this since Shell " > > My Ph D is in astrophysics, my BA in Music my work in energy and > transport economics. > So would you believe me? > > Lee Schipper > Director of Research, > EMBARQ the WRI Center for Sustainable Transport > www.embarq.wri.org > and > Visiting Scholar, > Univ of Calif Transport Center > Berkeley CA > www.uctc.net > skype: mrmeter > 510 642 6889 > 202 262 7476 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Zvi Leve [mailto:zvi@inro.ca] > Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 3:27 PM > To: Lee Schipper > Cc: sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org > Subject: Re: [sustran] Re: "In my view you have no place asking a > question like this since Shell " > > Lee, you are an economist, correct? Perhaps you can "enlighten" me a > bit on the economics of non-renewable resources. Why should we be > falling all over ourselves to "exploit these resources" as quickly as > possible? I would think that leaving them in the ground and thereby > letting the value increase as it becomes more and more scarce could also > > be a 'profitable' business alternative. Am I missing something? > > One of my friends often reminds me that oil is a crucial input to almost > > everything in modern society. Burning it to propel our vehicles is a > rather wasteful use of such an important resource! > > Zvi > > Lee Schipper wrote: > >> At the main event, Niel Golightly, VP of Shell for Sustainability, >> > stood > >> up before the group, and said "buy less of our product". >> >> >> > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to > join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The > yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to > the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem > like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > > From peebeebarter at gmail.com Thu Nov 22 12:02:04 2007 From: peebeebarter at gmail.com (Pau