[sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques

[Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory]

Mr Cassini,

It might interest you to know that the issue you discuss is one of the 
ideas for debate at Towards Carfree Cities in Istanbul late in August. 
<http://www.worldcarfree.net/conference>

Debate:
"Complete streets (see www.completestreets.org 
<http://www.completestreets.org/> for more info) and shared space (see 
"shared space" entry in Wikipedia) concepts vs. pedestrianisation"

If you are interested in debating this or participating in some way 
please contact istanbul at worldcarfree.net <mailto:istanbul at worldcarfree.net>

I realise that Complete Streets and Shared Space are not the same thing.

***

My own opinion, briefly, is that your concept of sharing without signals 
etc. is GREAT except that private automobiles are not sustainable on a 
global level and even carshare is not desirable as a long-term solution 
because of the way that cars ensure that streets remain solely in the 
job of fulfilling transport duties, rather than a traditional and I 
think better role to facilitate life between buildings, with transport 
not hindering this and only enabling it. To put it another way, a street 
full of cars with drivers acting politely as possible still dominates 
the scene, even if collisions go down (and I have seen the videos of 
Shared Space and believe they do. I really do agree that people need to 
make eye contact and so on. Signs are also ugly.).

So, it is certainly better than the current situation but no long-term 
solution, or even a mid-term solution.

But you also seem to say that it is the traffic signals which are making 
things difficult for polar bears, rather than the car traffic itself, no 
matter what speed it is operating at. This is really funny. Are you 
serious?

It would be a fine system if there were no cars. In fact, this is the 
way it us 100-120 years ago. No signals, no signs, and no cars.

So, I propose a compromise: No signals AND  no cars.

Hope to see you in Istanbul. If Mr. Irons can come too, it would be 
great, as long as he doesn't fly there. The polar bears would not 
approve. Or will you argue that airplanes should also not have restrictions?

- T



Martin Cassini wrote:
> May I second Madhav's delightful point? As some of you know, my 
> frustration is with too much traffic regulation, which in my view is 
> counterproductive, makes roads dangerous and hostile, where the very 
> restraints - which go against the grain of human nature - set the 
> stage for conflict and congestion. I love what I see when lights are 
> out of action and there are no external controls - congestion 
> dissolving, courtesy thriving, everyone merging in a merry mix of 
> meandering movement, and the emergence of a new hierarchy, with 
> vulnerable road-users at the top. Perhaps there is an elegant 
> compromise to be found - some midway point between India and England 
> ... priority rules and regimented controls dropped in favour of 
> natural cooperation, where might is not right, and we adopt 1Q, 
> denoting single queueing and innate intelligence.
>  
> Martin
> www.goodfun.tv <http://www.goodfun.tv>
>  
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* 
> sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk at list.jca.apc.org 
> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk at list.jca.apc.org] 
> *On Behalf Of *Madhav Badami, Prof.
> *Sent:* 04 May 2007 15:00
> *To:* Global 'South' Sustainable Transport
> *Subject:* [sustran] Re: Indian roads - planes, cows, elephants, mosques
>
>     Dear Carlos,
>      
>     Once the craziness of the academic term comes to an end, I promise
>     a detailed response to Jonathan Richmond's (and others') postings
>     on the situation in India (and what we can and ought to do about
>     it). I will try and work elephants, cows and yoga  -- but not
>     planes -- into my response as well :-). Meanwhile, I will leave
>     you with this personal viewpoint ... India is like life itself --
>     joyous, sometimes sublime, and at the very same time, very messy,
>     even obscene, but never ever dull and boring. 
>      
>     Madhav
>      
>
--------------------------------------------

Todd Edelman
Director
Green Idea Factory

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