[sustran] Re: BRT - switchover lanes .... alternatively, why not run on the other side of the r

[Bina C. Balakrishnan]

Actually, we've already considered all the options that you have mentioned.
  -  When I talked about the median lane, I was referring to the "Fast lane". This is what the Core Group (CWG) has recommended.The entry and exits are from the existing medians,which will be developed into bus stations, and we are , as I said in an earlier post, recommending doors on the right side.
 - Running buses on the "WRONG SIDE OF THE ROAD " as you have said- we call them Contra Flow buses - were also considerd for a long time by the CWG,for precisely the reason you have mentioned : the location of the doors, and for various other reasons, dropped. Actually, Contra Flow bus lanes at the median had the added advantage of not likely to be violated by other traffic!

Regards

Bina C. Balakrishnan

On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 Prof J G Krishnayya wrote :
>Just an idea. Please shoot it down (with reasons) if it is impractical
>for India.
>
>Traffic in India drives on the left side of a road. In the case of a
>divided highway, one proposal is to run the BRTS in a separate lane
>(taking the place of the “Fast Lane”, i.e. to the right hand edge of the
>left half of the road.
>This means that entry and exit from the busses would have to be to and
> from fresh islands in the road (since doors are on the left side of the
>bus) or else fresh doors would have to be cut into the bus, so that
>passengers can board and get off onto a central island..
>Actually, for reasons of flexibility, and if these are “Long” busses,
>with centre doors, it seems to me to make sense to strengthen the body
>and cut doors out on the right side of the bus. Then a single stop or
>station would exist at each location for both directions.
>
>An alternative, which I have not seen mentioned yet, is to run the BRTS
>busses on the WRONG SIDE OF THE ROAD. That is, busses going north would
>run in the grade-separated, “Fast lane” of the southbound side of the
>road. And busses going South would run in the fast lane of the
>northbound side of the divided highway.  Then one would use the normal
>doors (on the left side of the bus), thus eliminating any need to
>strengthen the chassis.
>
>Pune experience within days of the start of BRTS makes it clear that
>with our population density, and general attitude towards discipline in
>general, Grade-Separation between the normal roadway (of at least 8
>inches) and the BRTS lanes, is essential to avoid many, many fatal
>accidents.  If the BRTS lane is grade-separated, there should be no
>problem about the BRTS busses running in the opposite direction to the
>regular stream of traffic.
>
>Contra-ideas, anyone?
>
>J G Krishnayya
>==============
>Prof J G Krishnayya
>Director, Systems Research Institute,
>17-A Gultekdi, PUNE 411037, India
>www.sripune.org                 Tel +91-20-2426-0323
>jkrishnayya at yahoo.com       Res 020-2636-3930
>sri at giaspn01.vsnl.net.in       Fax +91-20-2444-7902
>
>-----Original Message-----
> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+sri=pn1.vsnl.net.in at list.jca.apc.org
>[mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+sri=pn1.vsnl.net.in at list.jca.apc.org] On
>Behalf Of Alan Howes
>Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 6:00 PM
>To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport; edelman at greenidea.info
>Subject: [sustran] Re: BRT - switchover lanes
>
>Great minds ...
>
>I've just been reading the organisational bits of Bina's post rather
>more carefully. I still don't have a feel for how much clout the CWG has
>- OK the Gov of Maharashtra has accepted the CWG report - but does that
>guarantee action (not just commissioning consultants, but committing to
>implementation).  And on a matter of detail, Bina says -
>"we at the MTSU have already submitted our report to the Government of
>Maharashtra- as long back as the 6th of February 2007"
>and then
>"The CWG Report was formally presented on the 6th of February, 2007, to
>all the departments ..."
>
>So I assume the consultants have not yet been appointed.  I can't see
>them taking less than six months to report, and I would guess at least
>nine months for implementation, even at Western rates of action - what
>price bus lanes by the end of this year?
>
>Is the MTSU report the same as the CWG report? When was the CWG formed?
>Sorry to ask so many questions!
>
>Regards, Alan
>
>
>--
>Alan Howes
>Associate Transport Planner
>Colin Buchanan
>4 St Colme Street
>Edinburgh      EH3 6AA
>Scotland
>email:   <mailto:alan.howes at cbuchanan.co.uk> alan.howes at cbuchanan.co.uk
>tel:      (0)131 226 4693 (switchboard)
>            (0)7952 464335  (mobile)
>fax:     (0)131 220 0232
>www: http://www.cbuchanan.co.uk/
>
>
>   _____
>
> From:
>sustran-discuss-bounces+alan.howes=cbuchanan.co.uk at list.jca.apc.org
>[mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+alan.howes=cbuchanan.co.uk at list.jca.apc.
>org] On Behalf Of Brendan Finn
>Sent: 16 March 2007 11:32
>To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport; edelman at greenidea.info
>Subject: [sustran] Re: BRT - switchover lanes
>Dear Alan,
>
>I think that's an excellent rule on three grounds :
>
>1) It is simple and unambiguous
>
>2) The participants always know which situation they are in, and whether
>they should yield. It is highly visible when a potential yield situation
>arises, no need for control systems.
>
>3) The priority is to clear the bus stopping place to make room for
>incoming buses, so it is right that buses leaving the stopping area
>should have priority.
>
>With best wishes,
>
>
>Brendan.
>________________________________________________________________________
>_____________
> >From Brendan Finn, ETTS Ltd.   e-mail : etts at indigo.ie   tel :
>+353.87.2530286
>----- Original Message -----
> From: Alan <mailto:Alan.Howes at cbuchanan.co.uk>  Howes
>To: edelman at greenidea.info ; Global 'South' Sustainable Transport
><mailto:sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org>
>Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 10:52 AM
>Subject: [sustran] Re: (NEWS) Mumbai's BRTS project turns into a joke!
>
>I thought someone might think that! I take it what concerns you is the
>(two per stop) conflicts between buses moving in opposite directions?
>
>Remember that the buses will be moving slowly as they are about to stop
>or are just leaving the stop. I don't know offhand what the maximum bus
>flows are likely to be, but I would not have thought that even in Mumbai
>there would be more than 120 buses per hour - correct me someone if I'm
>wrong (I could do a check, but it would take some time). At that level I
>see no problem with a simple "give way" arrangement (e.g. incoming buses
>always give way to leaving buses) - you could have traffic signals, but
>IMO that would be an unnecessary expense.
>
>Regards, Alan
>
>
>--
>Alan Howes
>Associate Transport Planner
>Colin Buchanan
>4 St Colme Street
>Edinburgh      EH3 6AA
>Scotland
>email:  alan.howes at cbuchanan.co.uk
>tel:      (0)131 226 4693 (switchboard)
>            (0)7952 464335  (mobile)
>fax:     (0)131 220 0232
>www: http://www.cbuchanan.co.uk/
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
> From:
>sustran-discuss-bounces+alan.howes=cbuchanan.co.uk at list.jca.apc.org
>[mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+alan.howes=cbuchanan.co.uk at list.jca.apc.
>org] On Behalf Of Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory
>Sent: 16 March 2007 10:44
>To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport
>Subject: [sustran] Re: (NEWS) Mumbai's BRTS project turns into a joke!
>
>Alan Howes wrote:
> > [...] The problem, however, with with-flow bus lanes placed
>immediately to the left of the median is that, assuming bus stops are on
>the median, the bus doors are on the wrong side (an expensive problem to
>fix). MMRDA explained to me an ingenious proposal for overcoming this -
>at the stops the buses would swap sides, crossing the median through a
>gap immediately before and after the stop. This sounds perfectly
>feasible to me - the only potential problem I foresee is that the
>necessary gaps will be used (illegally) by other traffic, or even
>pedestrians (who get a pretty raw deal in terms of getting across the
>road).
> >
>That seems really dangerous unless there are electronic safety systems,
>etc. Am I missing something?
>
>- T
>
>--
>
>--------------------------------------------
>
>Todd Edelman
>Director
>Green Idea Factory
>
>Korunní 72
>CZ-10100 Praha 10
>Czech Republic
>
>++420 605 915 970
>++420 222 517 832
>Skype: toddedelman
>
>edelman at greenidea.eu
>http://www.worldcarfree.net/onthetrain
>
>Green Idea Factory,
>a member of World Carfree Network
>........................................................................
>........................................................................
>............................................
>DISCLAIMER
>
>This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
>intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they
>are addressed. Unless you are the named addressee, or authorised to
>receive it for the addressee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it
>to anyone else. If you have received this email in error please contact
>the sender by replying to this email.
>
>Any views expressed by an individual within this email which do not
>constitute or record professional advice relating to the business of
>Colin Buchanan, do not necessarily reflect the views of the company. Any
>professional advice or opinion contained within this email is subject to
>our terms and conditions of business.
>
>We have taken precautions to minimise the risk of transmitting software
>viruses. We do not accept liability for any loss or damage caused by
>software viruses.
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
>IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS.
>
>Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement.
>
>================================================================
>SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South').


Bina C. Balakrishnan
Consultant
Transportation Planning & Engineering
Mumbai, India
e-mail: binac at rediffmail.com
Mobile : +91 98926 41341
Home : +91 22 23630572
Skype  : binacb